 Live from Palo Alto, California, it's theCUBE at Pier 2.0, brought to you by the Pier 2.0 Foundations. Learn, connect, and grow. Now here are your hosts, John Furrier and Jeff Frick. Okay, welcome back everyone here, live in Silicon Valley in Palo Alto. This is theCUBE, our flagship program. We go out to the events, they start to see them in the noise. I'm John Furrier, founder of Silicon Amur. Jeff Frick, our GM of our CUBE operation. This is the Pier 2.0 conference about all the action going on in the networking space. IP addresses are running out, cats and dogs living together, dev ops, all this stuff's happening. I wanted to along, welcome back, welcome to theCUBE. Thank you. So you, Richard gave you quite the buildings that you have done the most talking about IPv6 of anyone he knows, is that true? It may well be, I spend a lot of time on the road talking about IPv6 every year because it's very, very important. Do you fly your own plane to these events? On rare occasion, usually I'm on an airline. He's flying commercial pilot, great, it's a great skill to have you talking before you came on. But let's get to the reality of the market. Hurricane Electric's been around for a while, both coasts, very big business. Plugged into both naps, know all about peering. What's going on with the whole peering IP addresses? What's going on in this market? Tell us what's going on. Well, so peering and IP addresses are related but very separate things. The difference between v4 and v6 from a peering perspective really is more about attitude than anything else. Some of the larger players are more willing to have a more open attitude about peering in v6 because of the smaller routing table and thus less consequence to their routers than in v4, where it's been kind of an old boys club to try and get peering with the major players. But on addressing, that's where the issue really is. We're running out of v4 addresses that shouldn't be news to anybody. We knew at least 20 years ago that we were gonna run out pretty soon. We developed a life support mechanism that kind of allowed us to limp v4 along at the time, roughly 15 years ago, and that's called network address translation. Yeah. But what people don't seem to realize. We all know that, we're running our wifi at home. Yeah, but people don't seem to realize that that's not the internet working the way the internet's supposed to. That is the internet running on life support. And you can only keep a patient alive on life support for so long and the internet is way past that mean. I mean, I was- They took the patient out though that they've been running the patient hard the last 15 years. We've added all the devices. We've added more internet connectivity. Everything is SaaS now. And if you don't think there we're feeling the stress from that. Yeah. I mean, a lot of people talk about stupid DNS tricks as well as another way to kind of hack around it. Life support it is that depletion date is upon us. Pretty much. Pretty much any day now could be gone. What is the- APNIC has been out for two years and then some. Europe has been out for a little over a year now. The Latin American region is about to run out any day now. And Aaron, Richard won't make a prediction but my guess is probably somewhere around the end of this year, early next year, Aaron's going to be out if not, close to out if not out. Well he said on the record that there's one large organization away from depletion at this point. So it's like, it's a tornado could drop at any moment. So what's the consequence? Give us through the quick impact of this for the folks that aren't following in the weeds on this. What does it mean? That means we're- The day after. We wake up the day after. Well you wake up the day after not much is going to change but as time progresses and people want to add more services to the internet, more mobile devices, more other stuff to the network there's not going to be addresses to put on those things. And some of those things are going to get forced into V6 only. And then the question is, well how long before the things that don't support V6 are no longer talking to enough of the internet that things get bad? And that's a little bit further out and nobody really knows where that's going to happen or when or how or what the impact is really going to be. So the real goal is to try and get IPv6 more widely deployed before we hit that point because the more widely deployed IPv6 is when we get to that point the better off we're all going to be and the easier the transition is going to be the less painful this process will become. What about the peering conversation? Explain to the folks out here peer2.0, I know I recognize your name from the CA Geeks list which can be active some times. It's always fun to watch. But a great perspective for people who really care after you throw all the mudslinging aside and fun and joy around it. There's some great conversations going on. This peer2.0 community foundation is really kind of a melting pot of some of the brightest minds in the business. What does it mean for the folks out there? Obviously the first inaugural event explain to the folks what's this all about? Well, I'm just learning myself as I go along as well. Bill Norton would be a really great guy to ask that question because he was involved in organizing it early on. But to my knowledge, it's trying to bring together a lot of the existing people that have a lot of experience in peering and in keeping the internet working and expanding it with some of the new minds and some of the people that are coming up in their careers and starting to learn some of this stuff so that we can have a smooth handoff to the next generation. What are that for the younger generation out there who are like, you know, biting their teeth into some new stuff? Obviously they're DevOps guys, mostly probably never loaded Linux patches before, even loaded big networks. But they're mostly developers still. What are some of the hard problems that you see that would really entice some new talent to come in? And everyone I talk to that's got any chops, they all want to dig in to something fun, but also solve some hard problems and really do some engineering. What do you see as the key factors there? Well, some of the key problems to solve are going to be interconnection density continues to grow and we're going to need more and better ways to manage larger numbers of peers, larger numbers of autonomous systems that we're peering with in more places. We're going to need DevOps in terms of managing routers and automating more and more of those processes just to keep up with the growing size and complexity of networks as we move forward. That's a long list. Certainly tying it all together, being more agile is a word that is getting to be commonplace in networks. It used to be static, right? Everything's kind of static posted and then now this dynamic. How is that changing the talent requirement? Has that changed a bit? It has changed actually quite a bit. Network engineering is a unique discipline to be sure, but we're starting to get to where just being a network engineer isn't good enough anymore. You've got to be not only a network engineer, but also a bit of a software developer and you've got to understand more about host administration than network engineers have traditionally needed. So really we're starting to require a deeper, broader set of technical skills and it's crazy to know. Jeff and I always like to talk about sports. Obviously the Niners are here, the Giants and the workout model, the combines or look at the young talent coming in. What is it for you or folks of the older mentors when you see the new talent? What skills, oh, that guy, he's a rock star. I want that guy on my team. What does it look like? What kind of language is he programming in? What's the stuff, he has the right stuff. What does that new tech athlete look like? Well, I'll tell you, I don't actually look for what language they program in or what routers they're familiar with or any of that stuff, because all of that stuff is easy to teach someone. What I look for is I look for a guy that when I hand him a hard problem, he can put it on the whiteboard and he takes a methodical approach. I don't even care if he gets the right answer or goes down the right road. I want a guy that asks some of the right questions and starts trying to go at it methodically rather than running all over like a shotgun and saying, well, maybe it's this and maybe it's that. Maybe it's the subject. Let's try rebooting this and let's try unplugging that. And I want a guy that says, okay, let's analyze this. Let's see what's going on. Let's take a methodical approach. Okay, this indicates that maybe this is going on. Let's construct an experiment that'll test for that condition, conduct that experiment, see what the results are, make one change at a time and see what happens. And a guy that approaches it that way and a guy that is able to understand a complex system quickly and efficiently with a methodical approach, that's the guy I'm going to hire. Awesome. That's all data-driven background. Obviously, big data is a big part of everything now. It's been around, obviously networks for years, new network management concepts of passive active data sets, really critical part of how things were. Has anything changed in the big data front from your perspective? It probably has a lot in some of the other areas of network engineering that I'm not as actively involved with these days, but most of the people I talk to and most of the positions that I look for are more related to a guy that can sit there and help to design a network when things are calm and help grow a network and scale it when things are calm but who can really get in there in the trenches and resolve problems quickly and reliably with minimal impact when things break. All right, so talk about Hurricane Electric. I saw some controversy on the CA list about DDoS. There was some sort of study survey. Can you clarify what was said? Who posted it? Was it to FUD? Was it BS? What was the deal? A lot of it was FUD. A lot of it was mudslinging, frankly, from a guy that doesn't like us and a guy that doesn't like me in particular. So I don't want to dignify it too much. Oh, okay, so you don't really give it a lot of weight? No, I don't give it a lot of weight. All right, so what's new with Hurricane Electric? Give us the update. I'm a big fan of you guys. You've done some great work. Big centers. We're basically keeping on keeping on. We're building out new pops every week and we've expanded throughout Europe and Asia as well as North America. We just brought on a couple more pops recently. I don't remember exactly where they are off the top of my head, but they're on our website. If you go to HE.net, click on the map. You get a whole list of every place we're at. Did you buy that one in Lin, Lin Mass? There's a big data center in Lin. Do you still have that one? Linwood, Massachusetts. I don't know for sure whether we do it or not. I think you guys cobbled that up. I think I might have put a box there once. They keep me on the road talking about this stuff so much. So what do you think about the cloud? Final question for you. Cloud meets the data center bare metal. I saw Flare last year sold to Microsoft for $900 million. People are still deploying data centers. Certainly how you use infrastructures may change, but the net net is that they're not going away. It's kind of like storage. Storage is changing, but there's going to be more things to store. People love to talk about the cloud. It's a abstract thing that doesn't require hardware because it's all virtualized. I got to tell you, all those virtual servers have to run on a real server somewhere. That means a data center. And networking doesn't happen without cabling of some sort. Wi-Fi isn't going to cut it in the bigger internet. NFV and SDN, your take on those trends? I think they're great. I think they're tools that are going to allow some of the same management capabilities for the network that the cloud has allowed for computing. And I think it's going to be very interesting to see the automation and some of the rapid prototyping and rapid changes that can be accommodated with them. I went along here inside the cube. Great to meet you in person. Saw you, I see you on the list a little sign. Love the conversations in the CA Geeks list. And great to see you just being in Pier 2 Auto. All the experts are coming together. IPv6, get on the roadmap. The depletion for IPv4 is upon us. Don't get caught left behind and left in the dust, as they say in this case. Get on the IPv6 and obviously the data center market is nowhere but going off. Obviously cloud only accelerates that. This is the cube. We'll be right back after the short break.