 Like, the beauty of all this at DeFi Farming thing is you can print the reward out of thin air. All these decks are actually, right now, serving the purpose of a permissionless slot machine. It is not about privacy, it is actually about the viability of you as an individual, like in a specific economy. Changely is a suite of products and services that enables customers to have a one-stop-shop experience when engaging with crypto. Changely acts as an intermediary between exchanges and retail users, offering over 160 cryptocurrencies that can be effortlessly swapped within 10 minutes on mobile or desktop. In 2020, Changely branched out to accommodate the needs of traders with Changely Pro. Pro is an easy-to-use platform that enables retail buying and selling of digital tokens and coins. Piggybacking the great support system found from Changely, Changely Pro will provide simplicity, effective pricing, fast execution and 24-7 live support. What's up, everyone? Welcome back to another Cointelegraph interview. My name is Jackson. I will be your host and journalist for today. I am pleased to welcome DeFi Juan, who is a founding partner of Primitive Ventures, which is a blockchain investment firm. How are you doing today, DeFi? Hey, Jackson. I'm doing great. How are you? I'm doing excellent. Thank you for asking. I'm really excited to get a read on what's going on in crypto in China through talking to you. I have a few questions about farming, which is something new to me, and I'm curious to hear how you explain that. I understand that you're not talking about actual agricultural farming. This is something specific to the crypto space farming or DeFi farming. Could you please just explain a bit what you're talking about there? Farming in Chinese is Lu Yang Mao, means that shelling the sheep. Basically, you just, yeah, so just I think about, right? And so it's a very similar, so it's a very similar, like if you think from like conceptual perspective, basically, like the whole idea is, like the whole idea is, and I can spend close to zero capital, like just like, so I can spend, so I can spend close to zero down payment, and then I can also get something in return asset reward for free, right? So like farming in the crypto termings, liquidity mining, or just like, so when in terms of liquidity mining, and this is also like very familiar to many Chinese crypto players, because like back in 2018, so like back in 2018, liquidity farming was a pretty big thing for all these centralized exchanges, like especially all these Chinese exchanges. Like Afton is the one that first started this liquidity or just a transfer mining program. Yeah, so if you think about the mining behavior, like mining means, like you want to invest something, like it can be your effort, it can be energy, like Bitcoin, it can be your, so it can be your capital, right? So like any like proof of state, so any proof of state is kind of like, so it's kind of like mining or that farming. And so the farming in DeFi compounds is very interesting as when it comes to DeFi, I usually stake or just locking the liquidity of something that has a consensus value. It can be DAI, it can be stablecoin, it can be ETH, or like it can be like rapid DC. So something that has a consensus value that can be used as a collateral. And then with that, I can yield another currency. Usually it's the platform token offered by all this farm, right? So like this farm can be a asset management platform like Kampang, like RV. So I think at the end of the day, like the fundamental of all this mining, farming, whatever like incentive program are the same. It's just growth tactics, right? Like the beauty of all this at DeFi farming thing is you can print the reward out of the thing there. And you've mentioned like the upsides of engaging in this strategy so far. Are there any risks that I should be aware of if I was to involve myself in this? There's a lot of risk. So like if you are not familiar of how all this DeFi, like especially how this liquidity pool is actually designed, and there's a very high chance that you might get wrecked. And also like a very simple example, because I try to use it, so I try to use the analogy that many of these taxes like Uniswap and like Airswap, etc. And they are in a good way, they're like a permissionless vending machine, right? Because the inventory is transparent and like the price is also relatively, so it's also relatively known as well. So it is not like the traditional exchanges, which is like a black box. But the flip side of it is all these taxes are actually right now serving the purpose of a permissionless slot machine. So you have no idea whether like the coin lister is so is so is like the team behind it is legit or not. And because like any so is that anybody can list a coin there and like how the Uniswap this automated market making engine is designed as like anybody can inject like like whatever coin supply there. And so if you're on the other side of the market and you can easily be just like eaten off. Cointelegraph recently published an article reporting on a chain news report, which says that hundreds of companies in China are now hiring blockchain specialists. And the average monthly salary of blockchain related jobs has more than doubled since last year. And I'm curious to hear thoughts as to why you think that Chinese companies are now putting so much more value in blockchain related positions. So when it comes to blockchain, not Bitcoin, or like blockchain, not native crypto, like I said, it's just so like blockchain is a database management technology. And so if you think about consortium chain or or or like things like hyper ledger like offered by IBM. So it is nothing different than than a end to end encrypted append only database. So most of the companies are hiring like blockchain experts for that purpose. Like definitely not for native crypto development, right? Any native crypto thing here in China, I would say it's in gray area. Like if you want to issue your own token, that's definitely illegal because I know I can issue personal private currency here. It might be a good bandwagon for many of these companies to just jump on to you. And I know many public companies here in China, so they just want to hype up Washington just to pump the stock price. And that's very common. Cointelegraph reported very recently that state run banks in China have now begun testing the digital wallet for China's digital yuan. And I'm curious to hear your overall opinion on the digital yuan. Obviously in the crypto space, this is very hyped up, maybe overhyped, as you were alluding to previously that maybe blockchain and crypto in China is a little bit overemphasized by the crypto space. But what are your thoughts on the digital yuan, now that it's nearing a further stage of completion? So I wrote an article, I think last year or 2018, so on the whole, the digital yuan, like before it has its official name SIDCEP. But there's a clear distinction between digital fiat currency and the digitization of fiat currency. So here in China, like fiat currency or yuan or whatsoever has been highly digitized. And the whole society is cashless, right? And you don't have to use cash and you just bring your phone and not even any credit card. And so every, the order transactions are down on which have all the LAP. So that is the digitization of currency. And so digital yuan and the digital fiat is actually M0. So we have like M0, that's issued by the central bank or like, or, or so all by the fact, right? And on, so on top of like M0, so that's the, so that is the base currency. On top of, so on top of like M0, we have like M1 and M1 and so M1 and M2 and that's usually issued by the commercial bank, right? Or probably shadow banking. So the digital yuan, so what makes very unique is because it's M0 directly, like, which means that it can make the central banker much more powerful. And then they can have better control and direct impact when it comes to monetary supply and also monetary policy. Like say for instance right now, so if we think about the current, so like the, like under the current like economic situation, the Federal Reserve have to quote unquote print money, but they don't actually airdrop money, right? So they have to, they have to do all this like QE and buy back and just all this overnight operation and so right. So, so it is not directly inject the monetary supply to the market, but like when it comes to digital yuan and it's actually due to M0 and which is like if we think about the potential then like it can be insane. Which means it will actually first of all the central banker now can bypass all the commercial bank, right? And they have the full transparency when it comes to how the money is actually moving like within the, so within the, so within this economy and and then they can also make the monetary policy programmable. I can give you a very like simplified example. Here in China we always face in this situation that okay housing market is overheated, like stock market is overheated and and like this and that sector is overheated, right? So previously what the, so like what the central banker has been doing is okay I try to talk with that, so I try to talk with a specific financial agent or like or specific financial proxy in that specific sector and then make some new regulation and then try to suppress the overheated situation over there. But given this digital yuan and I can simply write a line of code saying okay 10 billion RMB is not going to flow into a housing market, that easy, right? Think about that. So I think the biggest potential of digital yuan is from this highly flexible and highly so highly flexible and highly and then highly digitized monetary policy design and which can make the central bank like in the center of the, so in the, so in the center of this whole economic planning because right now the central banker is just indirectly influenced the whole economic planning but in the future they can just royal. Awesome. Thanks for that. And you were talking a bit how it would let the bank monitor the money supply and really trace it and a lot of people are I think concerned about how about this ability of the bank to track the money. Do you think this is a valid concern? Are people's privacy at risk? Can the bank really see where exactly that money is moving? Yeah, so I think it's definitely a valid concern and but the thing is like it is a valid concern but it's not a new concern. When we're using our credit card, right? So I have my I have my staff here, right? So when we're using this credit card and like all the issuer and network processor and they all have our you know like financial footprint. So it's nothing different than that and it's just I think comparing with the credit card transaction is just your financial like data is actually holding by multiple parties and versus here is holding by PBOC, right? So it's holding by the central bank to be honest and I have higher confidence for my data to be helped by the central banker other than any financial conglomerates because like central bankers they still have to serve the public, right? They don't have a specific financial mandate because they are the ultimate last lender of resource or last buyer of resource like last resource, like buyer of the last resource. Yeah, like buyer of the last resource, right? So like they don't have this strong economic incentive like to start off your data like there's just so if this is so it's like nothing to them, right? So I think a so like so like the actual concern I have is when one party have all my financial data and especially the party is a so if one party so if only one party have all my financial data and then that is so that become the single point of truth, right? Like single point of truth can also lead to single point of failure. Like St. Branson, if I so like they can easily just erase you from economic assistance so that is my ultimate concern. It is not about privacy, it is about it is actually about the viability of you as an individual, like in a specific economy, right? So if we think about a very 1984 scenario, so PBOC or like any central banker can easily get so can easily get rid of you like just removing you from that so from that economy by just shutting off all your financial like like in bank, right? So that's possible. So like when they have all your data, when they become the single point of truth and then they can easily alter to so to make you just like non-assistance. So that is my ultimate concern and so I think that's why I'm very into the actual vision of Satoshi like not the one from the Australian like but the actual Satoshi that we need to have something that is it has good enough redundancy that can be good enough so that can be robust enough that will never fall into this single point of failure. So they will never fall into this single point of failure situation. Thank you for all of that, Davie. You're just so ingrained in crypto like you probably you breathe crypto it's just it's so amazing to hear all of these all these concepts explained all these dynamics delved into so I really appreciate you taking the time to to talk to me today. Yeah sure, Jackson, anytime. Thank you everyone for watching. That was W1 who is a founding partner of Blockchain Investment for Improved Adventures. My name is Jackson and if you enjoyed the show please hit that like button and subscribe to our channel so you can get more awesome crypto content. 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