 Okay we now have a quorum. So I will call our meeting to order. I assume everybody has had the agenda and as as no. Objection and proposed changes to what's in the agenda. And I'll move right to abatement hearings. And the first. And I'll move right to abatement. And the question you have is Georgia Goldsboro. So Georgia, why don't you step up? Maybe wait the end so you can. So people. And so people can see you. Yeah. Yeah. No, the information, her information would be in the book. That stuff that you've got for me today is basically worksheets to go through and make the decisions. Okay, Georgia, would you raise your right hand? Do you solemnly affirm subject to the pains and penalties of tax abatement? Yes, I did. Okay. Why don't you have a seat and tell us. Why you're here. Okay. I'm not sure of the language of. Request for tax abatement, but I'm here to request. A reduction in my property. My, yeah. So I purchased the property and I'm the 31st of July. This year. I closed on my property, a little mini farm in white river junction on the 31st of July. And at that point when I owned my little acre and. Two thirds in white river junction. I mean Hartford actually. I had received a. The, what's it called? I'm sort of tongue tired right now. Homestead declaration. Quite a reduction based on my income and my circumstances and. When it. Moved me to come to my career. I had lived here 26 years. I worked for the governor's institute on the arts. I. Really love the city. Here, but. Life family. When I decided to sell my little farm and move here. My one daughter got the job at. My first year of high school. She's the chorus and a music teacher there. She had my one grandchild. Born on April 1st. And I was. At that time, the one parent. An hour and 15 minutes away. And I was diagnosed with cancer at the same time. Jules was born on April 1st. And I was operated on April. I had to meet him and see him. And that was part of the recovery. I jumped into this move pretty quickly. And, and. You know, saw it all the way through them. And now knew that the barn on 12 North college street. Needed a lot of work. And I decided to put every single. Thing I had into the barn. And at the very last. Moment that right down to the actual purchase and sale. Going through the closing when lawyer warned me about the taxes. And did tell me that I would. Possibly be able to come and have request a hardship. I live on. Well, I have all the paperwork and I realized. Become public record. That I have. A small social security amount that I live on. And I do receive. Some state supplement and I do receive. Seasonal fuel. My plan, I am an artist. I am a professional artist. And I do. Have plans that have been some verbally approved. And I do have a plan. I do have a plan. By zoning by calling Aubrey and speaking with him about what I do. That I, as a person residing in the barn. Can have. My own business there. And what I intended to do. Three things with building one. Is to show my work and have. Small. Openings up with my own. Of my own work. There, but also build an apartment. Just a small supplemental income based apartment. And I do have a plan. And I do have a plan. And I do have a plan. That already was an existing apartment on the ground. Below the ground floor. And then ultimately the next plan is to. Try to return some of the. Huge amount of real estate that does exist in the barn. To the city by. I'm working on obtaining a grant. To. Create practice space for. Musicians for. Theater groups. I'm a fine artist because I'm a fine artist. I have that temperament. And I'm not sure that I want to share that temperamentally with. Other fine artists. I am obtaining a, I've been pre-approved for. To thank you, David. Came to my door at 10 a.m. on the second day I had moved in there. I am looking to replace the roof. Take down the chimney. Cap the chimney. Create this apartment. And then I'm going to build a new facade that were. In pretty rough shape when I first got there, I've done. A hundred thousand dollars in my own. Cash money into it. And I'm cleaned out. And it's created a whole new heating system. I've used the existing walls. I have not compromised the post and beam. I've grown. This will be the first fourth barn that I have. Actually lived in. And this is the biggest, most ambitious enterprise. So. I have a. Phone call conversation with Bev Hill that based on this. The results of this hearing tomorrow. I do owe some taxes. I do actually owe. The last installment back tax, because that tax bill actually got sent to. The previous owner. And I can only remember at the moment. I don't know if you know. His EFS, his store. Yes, so for. I Rick Stofer and. So she's waiting to hear the results of this hearing. What I will do then tomorrow is go and pay the back. Peace and then what it is that I do. So I am asking for an abatement. I am in a. Financially in a hardship time. I have all my records of my medical diagnosis. The every six months. A recent review in October. I'm good. I have one coming up. March 6th. And. Yeah, so I'm, I'm also. You know, I've got medical bills, but that's not part of it. I am. I am working on a. An application for some. It's starting with Hitchcock and my doctors. Dr. Sarah Mayo there and. And working around some financial assistance that I'm. I'm planning and should receive and have received in the past. So that's basically all the circumstances. Of my entire life that I can talk about. And I do have, as I said, documentation backing up what I have to say. To you. Thank you. So. Are you. To be, to be clear, did you buy the property for. Cash and. And that essentially. Consumed your available funds that you, some of which you might have been using to pay for property taxes. If you hadn't done that. Well, I did pick. I did sell mine. House and did pay. Cash and put everything I could. We ran into. Of course, as usual. And I did. To be expected by about $15,000 more dollars of. One of the main things was the road and infestation that had. Cover my all of the installation. All of it every bit. And it had to be removed at a great cost. And I felt feel lucky. To it. To have been discovered by this. Great contractor and his partner. And getting in time. We had a lot of new troughs put in in the upstairs. Brand new heating system. Two bathrooms. One is a private one. And then one is. Near the entrance way for when I go through hopefully. Council on the arts. Or whoever to work on the grant. There will be that facility already exists. The design for that exists and the design for the apartment. Does also is also intact. The tax is, I did, I, you know, I did you run up my credit cards to run over, of course, the budget. I'm not, I'm not afraid of it. This is the business of, you know, the real estate world. Sorry to know that I looked at your barn. But, um. Yeah, so it did, it did run considerably over. And I did run into the heating system and didn't actually. Move in until, um. Well, whenever it was the night before you came to my door, I think it was December 22nd. And so, you know, I've been hit very, very, very hard by the cost of heating and fuel for the winter and electric. I'm very lucky the infrastructure was there for all of those. The green mountain power that. The gas station was there. That was a lot of. Sceptic the water, the hookup, but, you know, had to run the ropes of finding out all of the various costs and. Um, Permits and so it's, it's. It's run over the budget by about 30,000. What will you do? The taxes. Like, what, what will that mean that you need to do or can't do. Well, it will mean that I will run up by credit card, you know, even more and try to judge Peter PayPal and all that for and awaiting to hear the results too because I do have to put that finite, you know, number down on the application for the Hila. What will I do? Yeah. That I don't have the resources to borrow personal loans, but you know, I do have credit cards. And are you telling us that what you expect is that, although you haven't had enough money to pay the income to pay the property taxes this year, the things you're doing like creating an apartment in the building are going to be enough so that as of next year, your income will be changed and you'll then be able to pay the taxes. Yes. And also I did pay the taxes up through the the past bill that got sent to the wrong address when at closing thought that I had paid through February and there was a little mishap and a part that didn't partial part that didn't get paid went to Ira Stover. And so am I answering the question? Yeah, I'm trying to figure out so what is not paid the February bill, which was due last week didn't get paid. The November bill is you saying that part of it got paid in at the closing and part of it didn't get paid up to the November bill has been paid and then and I don't have the bill in front of me. I did get the bill from Sarah. I don't see it. So what I what my understanding is the part of the bill for there was some kind of accounting error so part of the bill right up to November did get paid. So it looked to me like part of November got paid, but I owe all of what's owed in February now. And then I think and then the main and also, yeah. You're the person that knocked on my door at 10am the morning after I'd moved in. And came and asked me what I was going to do about the roof. And I was. So you're trying to get an apartment ready to rent. Yes. And I do have a contractor ready to go April 1. And it is a it will be just a one room, very nice efficient apartment on next to the boiler room on the ground, very ground floor where there were initially stalls in the barn. So when you walk up to the door of the barn, there are two doors and one is on the right and it goes downstairs and that's already intact. And then there's boiler room that has new walls and all and then it's framed out the apartment and it's been. I mean zoning has been through and walk through and has given my contractor I don't know if I want to say his name but pre-approved for the plan is and the stairs that exist. And what and the window and door that are there. And the road problem wasn't was disclosed. No, it wasn't. It was not a recent problem. It was an old. Right. Yeah, enslaved problem. Yeah, it was not disclosed. So, um, have you applied. Yes, you have applied. Yes. Oh, well, I, I got a free approval, but then I had to withdraw that and starting over again because I needed some documentation I need to tell them exactly what my taxes are exactly a couple other things that I need to tell them. Yeah. The news is the, is the apartment within the barn structure or is it outside? No, it's within the barn structure, but it hasn't sewn doorway entrance way. And there's a. Do you have a permit for the building? I don't have the permit in hand to build it, but the inspectors have been through and they walk through and the permit has not been applied for until the start date. And when it's going to begin, which I hope is able to help to the first. I'm not going to ask you or Marnie, but I'm looking at the property card and it looks like there's three sets, three units on one floor plus an attic and a basement. And so it's listed as three units, but you're going to add two more to make it five. No, there's only one unit in the building. So just four. There aren't four. There's one one now. And there will be two. And I think what you might be looking at is. So first application to put in condo. It's our. I don't have his property. I don't know. Maybe I'm not looking at it. And in that angle. And in your narrative, I thought you said. A larger number of units. Maybe I could clarify a little bit. I don't know. There's 6600 square feet in the building. And the apartment, there was nothing that previous owner took it back to the posts and being bare walls. Took everything out the infrastructure for the water and sewage and green mountain power and all that stayed there. There were no walls. Zero where I moved in except. In. 22 10 22 to convert to a condo. And then you had another, maybe this is your comment. Last year, October, August of 23. To rehab the inside of it. That would be mine. And has that, has that work been completed? That's been completed. Okay. So it's now a single family. Right. According to this. So. No, I don't. And what I meant to say is I did get the doctor. I did get that in a flight a couple of weeks ago. And was. And I have probably on my laptop, but I withdrew that application to reapply because they only had three days. And they wanted absolutely every, you know, not involved here. And so this is one, and there are a couple of others just to prove that obviously my income. Level can, and then the apartment. The income from that will support the loan basically. And I, and I have, I'm confident of that. I mean, I've done this before I was a landlord of an in. In the city of Toronto in Vermont for 15 years, and I. We have, I would like to say renovated, but I honestly was rehab. To, to accommodate Vermont law school students. So, I, I do know. The business a little bit and sale that, but my little farm in 2019. And so. Yeah. I might, I'm having some issues trying to understand the number without any documents of what your income is, what your expenses have been, you know, so do you have any of that written down anywhere? Yeah, what are you looking for? Your income and your expenses when you bought the house and then whatever renovations to put it in proportion. Do I need to produce? When you're asking for something as a part of financial. I'm having a hard time understanding what you're asking. I thought you were asking abatement because of financial hardship and for me, that means I look at numbers. Yeah, maybe other people don't, but. I have my, I just have my personal income records right here and I understand that whatever I give you becomes public record. Correct. You can tell us what your income isn't when your expenses are and we can add it up. Yeah. Okay. Well, my income is 936 per month social security. $290 from that would be, I'm not sure what it's called, but it's department, it's assistance. Or low income. So that's 290 and that includes a medical piece for that. And then $600. It's an alimony separation amount for my husband. Yes. 936 dollars social security. $600 support. And $290 for. What? It's from my husband. Alimony. So 1826. Okay. No, roughly what your monthly expense of that. And I would say roughly my monthly expenses at this point are. 1800. And at this point, you don't have a house payment. No, I do not. Okay. And that, that, that includes insurance. There's, there's obviously a spot there for taxes. Utilities. But as I said, pretty hard with, as I did put a whole new heating system in. Did not rebuild the chimney did not put in. Any kind of wood stove. So it's a new to me all propane anti I've new propane heating system, very, very warm, very nice, very tight, but. And then electric and food costs and fuel. Anybody have any other questions. Okay. She's a new neighbor of mine. And that property. Had become a nuisance. In my opinion. As a result of the negligence of the city to enforce the zoning code. And the reality was that it was. The water was on. I think it had been falling into foreclosure. Yes. And it was populated by. So we say homeless and many misbehaving. Folks who allowed the rodents. To come in there and become a real nuisance. Part of our problems and my. Opinion or due to the inaction of the city over many years. And allow that property that. Actually become a nuisance to the neighbors. The reason I asked about the disclosure of the time of the sale. I don't know what the cost of that remediation was going to be considerable. I don't know what the cost of that remediation was going to be. I don't know what the cost of that remediation was going to be. It was 13,000 something and I can provide documentation, but I don't have it right now. But that was the, that was the unexpected. And it was a surprise. That was the undisclosed surprise. Yeah. There were some surprises that. It didn't really pass the scope. Did a sewer scope. There was a kink in that. And. I did overlook myself, but, and then the roof I knew was as you brought up the first moment, it is a 50 year roof. It is a metal roof. It has, it needs to be painted every 10 years. It's been painted twice. It's not in disrepairing that it's leaking. It's unsightly. I've painted two facade to well, one and a half facades of the building. And it's really a great thing. I think it's a great thing. I think it's a great thing. Because. A lot of the sales were. Which I could see we're also rotting. So. To come up and say, well. Here was the budget and here's how much I had. And it was $26,700 more than. My budget and that ran up with my credit cards. But in my, in the scheme of things, my situation looks like. A wonderful little apartment with a beautiful view. I'm a kind of a landscaper and I do. Best with trees. Better than with people almost. I have a little horse and a goat and. They're in the stall that stall has been. That's inside. It's a running. I put up a fence for them. The neighbors do seem to love it. They come over. But I have the feeling from everybody. In my neighborhood of on, especially college street. You know. You know. You know, I was in gratitude that I am there and did it. I did fall in love with the barn. I did know that it had a problem. I knew I was going in over my head and. In certain respects, but I think it was thrown infestation. I wouldn't like it to have been disclosed. I don't know what that would have. At this point. You know, 20, 20 hindsight would have done. But it was an uninhabitable. Ultimately, once I really did see what, what it was. It is completely sealed up now. There is no way that any. Thing larger than really a mouse can get in there. I haven't seen any. We do have a cat. I do believe in the structure of that barn. I just absolutely believe it. And I believe that knowing my background as artists. You know, someone who's run performance spaces and had a lot of hand in arts in my entire life in Vermont and mostly growing up in the Champlain Valley. I do believe that space can be brought back a little bit to the city. And I can't just say, here's what I'm going to do. But I know I can't. It's the space exists. And I have talked to Kim Ben. I've talked to him about what kind of practice space. Lost station theater might have. I know a lot of performing artists. And, you know, from that world are always looking for places to practice. There is a center space within the space. That's just. Asking to be a place for musicians and artists to, to practice. It's just there. It exists. So. Did you have any representation in this transaction? Yes, I did. What's that? Yes, I did. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, the condition of property or the roads. And it did not show up anywhere. And it wasn't until the contractor and I were standing in one specific space. Realized. And another question. Yeah. With the renovations you've made to this, it's going to affect your assessment next year. Right. Have you thought about that going forward? Yeah, I have thought about that. And what I. Guess I feel strongly about is that that. If I'm. Living on this latitude of income out go. That the apartment will pay for the, the utilities and the taxes essentially. The most recent assessment purpose. So that's for this is before the construction. Yeah. So that has a gutting property. The equity volume will be based on. The. On an appraisal. That was. Yeah. Six. So why can't be. What can't be. Equity volume. Reimbursing it for some of the unexpected construction expenses and. And you use some of the cash to pay the tax bill. See, I think that's a really good question. But I've just been, I've kind of been, it's been a year of. Overreach a little overreach in this. Building and. And also. I think when you get. When you, when you get cancer. You know, you suddenly see. You know, what do I want to do with this. I want to get the rest of my youth for life. What do I want to do? I want to bar in my career Vermont, my favorite city in the world. I've lived in all of the world. I would like to be near my daughter and my grandchild. And I'd like to do something in the world of the arts. And it just became. Just crystal clear. And this is what I'm doing. It's the overreach is. It's the overreach. It's the overreach. It's caused some sleeplessness. But I know that there is a need for housing in this place. I do not want to build condos other apartments, but I do believe that there is a way to. Bring income in. Through, through the use of rental. Practice space. And I think I'm just. I have a lot of wide variety of knowledge and expertise in that world. This is just the city of the arts. So I'm. I'm excited. I'm hopeful, but I am, I am, I have overextended. Yes. I think you mentioned that you had income sensitivity on your prior property. And I assume that one of the problems is that you don't have income sensitivity from the state on this property. Yeah. Okay. That's a really good point. Tell us what your income sensitivity was on the prior property. Yeah. It's amazing. It is. I think I've turned that sheet over. It's a. Yeah. It is. But that was based on. Are they at all equivalent. It's also based on income. And. Truth be told, I had put. I purchased that property in 2019. And I purchased it. I don't know how much disclose, but I put a hundred thousand into that. So when I did sell that property, I did get the money that I had put into it. And I knew that all of it was going to go to the barn by then. This bar. So. I knew I had missed the homestead declaration period. And that was troublesome, except that. I guess, you know, with some looking into it and my lawyer, Jeffrey D. Lewis of South Royalton, Vermont was. Pretty clear that, you know, I would have. Just cause to go to an abatement here. Here you'll be filing your taxes. And you'll be filing the homestead declaration. Yeah. Okay. Based on the full. At present, because that's what the parent valuation is. Yeah, it's going to go up. It's going to what I can. Your assessment is probably going to go up based on renovations. Yeah. It's going to go up because it's now it's living with space. Right. Which it was not before. Yeah. Anyone else have any other questions? Could you repeat what you just said really clearly? Because I'm having a hard time hearing. The assessment on your property. Yeah. Now that it's habitable. Yeah. It's going to go up. Yeah. But there was something else you said, I just. I didn't know when, when are the assess. April 1st. Yeah. Every year. Yeah. Tim, you look like you're. Yeah. Yeah. Good question. So for the apartment, if you're going to plan off or anything. So have you budgeted or planned for the permitting costs to get that? Cause you know, you have to get a wastewater permit if you're out in the unit and you have to pay a hookup fee. Yeah. It's not just. No, I did have the inspector, the, you know, the operating and came in twice by contractor. I think what, how it's worked is we're going to. Use the heating system that's there. All of the. And. Like 225. Dollars for permit. No, I'm, I'm not afraid of those permit. Except that. There. I didn't say that I can't. I mean, I'm. Talking about a budgeting 40,000 for the apartment includes fees. And that's what I'm going to work. It's the, it's the walls are built. In the heating system is there. The windows are there. And it's. Yeah. So we did some of the. The scary work. And it's a beautiful space. Ready for. She rock walls in the kitchen. And I have bathroom fixtures. I have many, many fixtures. And it's going to be furnished. So. Okay. Anyone else we ready to start. Delivering on this question. Did I answer your question? I didn't feel like I. Get to do. Are you satisfied? Yeah. Okay. So, okay. So the taxpayer has. Come in with the request for an abatement based on assertion. She cannot afford to pay the taxes. And so. Is there a motion. Of any kind or is there any discussion on the request? The application. For how much? Well, for this. For the person. Tax bill. So she's asked. I didn't get any of that. No, there is. If you say you'd already paid some of the taxes for this year. My understanding is I'm paid up. Through. November. And it's November and February. It's yeah, that's. Okay. And your quarterly payments are. 1340 37. It looks like. Yeah. Can you see on the paper you have. Because I could be, I could miss have a misunderstood. Is there a partial payment of the. November. Oh, you don't get that. Okay. So there was an, I think there was an accounting error, but. I do know I owe tomorrow. The, you know, the February tax bill. No, no. No, I'm, I'm my, on the closing. Cause. She's. I guess I prefer you to go to the bank. At least according to Marty, Marty, now that it's not gutted, there's at least some added value you put into the building. So that ideally you could get some sort of a loan to help you and help you also with your taxes and, and just even out all your obligations because. You put everything down. I mean, usually for self any leeway. Well, I hear what you're saying. That is going forward. I am in a hardship place. And I don't really feel ashamed of that. At all. I feel proud of what I'm doing. Very, very, very proud. I do think that it's hard to bear once. You know, so in books in a situation like this, I think that there was a part of me that left. Very, you know, a little bit. I think it was getting sick. I think it was being a grandparent with a 42 year old. Only child that wasn't going to happen. All of it happened so fast. I do think that. Had I known about a few of the things that I have run into. I don't, I don't know. I'm going to put everything I can into making it work based on the loan. I'm getting. I do need to tell you that my monthly loan. Excuse me. I think I was in the middle of trying to tell you that my monthly payments are going to be anywhere from. Of 370 something, depending on the length of time to a thousand dollars per month, depending on what of the he lock I use. So at this point with my accounting and my ex new learned expertise and with some actually through my bank, which I really do love North country union. There is financial counseling on this. I'm not just flying blind right now. There's no the back. There are back bills. It was very hard to figure out how to come up with $26,000 credit card bills based on the unforeseen. Let me jump in here. Ken, so as your proposal, is your motion to evade the February and the May payments? Yes. I would like to see happen. I know exactly how to figure the moment. She's clearly an old man. If she gets a chance. Maybe she can pull it out. And we'll know. In. Two or three months, I guess. So I think she needs. I think she's made a compelling case for somebody who's. Financial situation is such that. She cannot reasonably afford the immediate tax bill. And. That's my motion. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And. That's my motion. So if I give you were to say the February. And. In a. Instalments, which is 1340. 37 each. Is that. Does that reflect what your intention is? Yeah. Okay. So that's the motion. To evade. The name. The February. Installments. I can. I guess I'd like to have some more numbers on that. I mean, I agree with Donna on. It seems like the. There's a lot of equity in this building now. Yeah. A lot of equity. And it's just a question of what can be afforded in the monthly payment. Without, without seeing numbers. I. I don't. I think it very well may be affordable to. To pay the taxes as well as. You know, I agree with that. I agree. Everything going forward. With. With the proceeds. But we want to say, I agree also. It even extended a payment so she doesn't have a late payment. While she's working with the bank. Well, I'm going to be, I have been offered that anyway, which is the intention. I'm. I don't think with the. He lock. A monthly payment was interest rate, even though my credit's very high in the 700s. I don't think that I, I can't look at okay is the sky falling as the roof, go to be okay for two years and then do I go get a loan or do I do it now. And I, I'm not used to the landlord that the cost of rent around here I have been told and it, and I thought well, why don't I take the low end of what you know one bedroom apartment can get will that pay my taxes. The utilities which just heat alone is $600 a month in that building. What other numbers would you like my in my. I can tell you I'm on an average now already because I do do monthly with Green Mountain power. I mean, and I'm, Bev Hill has offered that I will be able to do water and sewage and everything on a, on a payment plan. That's that is what I do. I do that. I'm not trying to just get away with not paying taxes. I will. We passed this request the taxpayer provided a detailed financial accounting or situation. Then we can review it another time. Is there a second motion. Also, did you understand what the proposal action is the motion is to not take action on your request to my to ask you for more information that people are feeling they don't have enough information about your incoming expenses to be able to evaluate whether you're in a position of inability to afford your taxes. And so that's that's the motion before the board now do you still need want to be your John before we I was going to make another motion, but if it doesn't then I would. In other words, tomorrow. I have a bill do. Well, yes, that's. Yeah, and more motions coming so hold on. So, is, is there. Are we ready to vote on Ken's motion. We didn't kick it out. He. Oh, it was Kim later made new motions. Oh, yeah. Okay. The first motion died. First motion died for lack of a second. So Ken's motion was. Take no action tonight. Come back. We know we have. A meeting probably March 28th. Maybe it's definitely already. Pretty much. And the documentation we're looking for is. And like a list of the. What's going on. For a long letter, you know, yeah. List of what can you, well, this bit spelled out, or do I have to. Yeah. And this is the motion. Okay. It's a request to you for. A detailed accounting of your income and your, and your expenses. Okay. Not how much I've put into the building. Right. It's really a matter. This isn't a question. The question is, what's your income and can you afford the taxes based on what your income is. And. And so. Well, I can't right now, but I will. I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't. It's a plan. Right. And that's what you're saying. And people are. Are saying, well, you know, we'd like to see some. So the evidence that you can. So that they can make a decision on. The request. So I tomorrow. Expenses. And then. Projected. Expenses. Okay. All right. I see what you're saying. I liked Kim's initial motion. Yeah. So is there any more discussion before we vote on Kim's motion? I think at some point I would. Entertain another motion to. Remove any late fee while she's giving us. I don't know exactly when we'll meet again. Just. If we abate in the late fees. You might make more sense to make the people we meet again. Just because the late fees would. I think that's the. I think that's the. The right. The right way to hold up. Whatever there's an abatement. Okay. His late fees go or go with it. Okay. Thank you. And then if also if it's, if it's a decision. Not to grant an abatement of the principle. You can then choose to. Thank you. That is procedural question. No. Sorry. I need to understand what you said. Could you smell it out for me, please? I'm sorry. Yeah. I am the late fees. If, if abatement is granted later, then it'll take care of the late fees. If an abatement is not granted later, then the body can still choose to specifically abate just the late fees. Okay. All right. Are we ready to vote on the motion? If so, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Okay. Did you say your hose it? Okay. We got it because it's partial. A hybrid meeting. We got to take a roll call. Start with your end. Tammy. Hi. Hi. That's the name. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Hi. Okay. And Carrie. No. And Bob. No. Okay. Motion carries. So thanks for coming in. That's where that's where you are now. We haven't said no, we haven't said yes, but you have an opportunity to come back. With more information. Okay. Is it available if I operate? Just in paper or do I need to attend in person? What, how does it work? Another here. Everything to us. In writing. In fact, so that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wish I had done that before. I guess. I think that this is my first ever. Every piece of paper goes into public record. So I wasn't sure where, but this is okay. I can do. Great. Thanks for coming in. Okay. All right. Next up. We don't see this person. You said Gonzales Maria. Oh, this is so one case. Yeah. This was the case. Where the person. Put in a request based on. No, I might suggest that if. She's not here, maybe it makes sense with sense to put it on the order. As far as the. Just for privacy purposes. Yeah, that's fine personal information. Yep. But what I would suggest is that we. Yeah, give her a chance. Get in touch with her and give her a chance to come into next time. So. Do you have a question for her? I'm not sure. It's a good question. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Good to get everybody. It's you. Just jump. Really? Who's no, that's Julia Watson. Oh, he's also. This is. Yeah. Yeah. So is it's just. A big, a little piece. Is it. More than that. It was the broad up is the late fees to me, but I wasn't necessarily. I wouldn't necessarily sort of that would be. history in there of some, I think, some challenges making payments. So I'm not entirely sure what the final request would have been, but that was my understanding if it would be like this. I just don't want to be. It's really a safety thing to say fine. Yeah. I would try this out. Make a motion. It's Saturday. This is just the Woodrow Avenue. Yeah. No, no. It is a number in both our back. It is. It's so scary. Sorry. It says this, this past fall. So I think we're talking about taxes. You're a current tax lawyer. October, November. Clarify the motion that we paid the late fees only on current taxes. Any late fees that are extending as of today's date. Okay. Yeah. All right. Ready to vote on that? Who was the second on that? I'm sorry. I did. Okay. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed? No. No. Sorry. Sorry. No, I'm not opposed to it. I'm voting no. Okay. I thought this was your suggestion. Oh, no. This wasn't to talk about the case without her being here. Just because it could be. Okay. Let's go down. Starting with Tim again. Roll call. Yes. Yes. Yes. No. No. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes. Perry. No. Bob. Obstain. Okay. All right. The motion is passed. And. We can move on to. Hi, Julia. Thanks for joining us. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes. You can hear us. Okay. Great. Yeah. Ask you to raise your right hand. Do you solemnly affirm subject to the pains and penalties of perjury. The testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. That's a yes. I don't think I don't know that I heard you, but. Okay. Yes. Great. Very good. Thank you. I think you guys have confusion on which one this is. This is. There's two. Well, there's two names on it. One of them is a personal property. Can I, can I kind of explain? Cause then maybe it will help you. So I am the owner of capital grounds cafe in Montpelier. I do not own the building, but I own the business. I own the building. I own the building. I own the building. I own the building. I own the building. I own the building. I own the building. And the building is in 9 11 Langdon street on Langdon street, which is literally right behind the cafe. They are both commercial buildings businesses. This all came about because I was charged a late fee when I. Had my check in the mail. And I. You guys cashed it. Then it brought was brought to my attention that I haven't had the full use of my building or my business for over a third of last year, but I paid the full taxes on it and I paid taxes the whole time and then I got charged a penalty. And that is now what I'm just bringing to light. Gotcha, so we. We should take the two. They are separate, but yeah. Sorry. This is new to me too. A lot of people, this is a new to a lot of people this year. So, this wouldn't have happened if I wasn't charged a late fee because I, yeah, I, I pay everything on time I'm embarrassed to say that it was not paid on time. So, that's what made me uncomfortable with the situation. Anyway, Okay, so property first. Yeah, we'll start with the, with the property at the seven Langdon street. And what is that property. So it houses to commercial properties, the get up and Jay Langdon antiques. They were out of business and not operating from in the months of July, August, September, October and November. I did not collect rent. So, August, September, October and November. There are six apartments above. And while I had residents, we also have our laundry room on the main floor. That was out of commission until January of 2024. And we're the, we're the tenants in the apartments, paying rent continuously through the period. But the majority of them were not all because they had lost jobs and as both a tenant and a landlord, I, it was a rough year for everybody, I think. So, I understood that people lost jobs. Yeah. So majority of our tenants, but not all of them. Good point of clarification. I guess we have a question as to how many here, because what I have in our information is seven Langdon street. And then an 800 business, a personal property claim for 27 state street, but I don't have one for an additional nine street. It is seven, nine and 11. It is all one business. All the same building. Yep. And it should. It's under seven, but it's all the same parcel is for entire two commercial six apartments. I have my bill right here. All right, sorry about that. Okay, sorry about the confusion. Now, with regard to the apartment, so I asked about the rent, what I probably should have asked you, and we have a whole list of questions that I'm about to get to. But the apartments continue to be habitable after the flood. Is that right? Yes. Okay. There was one apartment on the second floor that what my tenant did not live there for the month of July or August because, because the smell. And so I did not get rent for the month of July and August. Okay. I've got a list of questions that were asked. We've asked everyone who filed abatement claims for flood damage and so I'll just go through all of them with you. Okay. Okay. So the question is, was there 50% or greater loss of the value of the properties? No. And you lose, was there a loss of use of the primary structure for at least 60 days. Of the primary structure. Yes. Our main floor. Yeah. Was there a loss of access to utilities for at least 60 days? No. Unless you count laundry, but not, not really. No. And was the, the property wasn't condemned, I assume, by the city. Okay. No outbuildings or land, right? And you had an income loss and. It was roughly 13,000 dollars. Okay. And the, the square footage that was damaged is essentially the whole first floor. Is that accurate? Correct. About a third of the building. Yes. Okay. Any other member have any other questions. Okay. Doesn't look like it. Okay. That's that I think that gives us all the information we need to act on that. Request and then we can move right on to. We're 27 state street. Request. And. Am I right that this is. Yeah. I think that's probably a recluse relating to personal property. Yes. And I would just like to make a statement on that. I am not requesting a refund. I am not requesting like I didn't get to use my business. I know we all had a really hardship. I am mainly. Asking for my. Late fee to be refunded. That is the main. That is the main reason. That is because I. So the property at capital grounds is so minimal. I am not upset about it. When I wrote my letter of. Being upset about the late fee. She was like, Oh, it looks like you also own property here. I know that everyone has hardship. I am very capable of paying my property taxes for capital grounds. I am very capable of paying my property taxes for capital grounds. If you guys are willing to not go there. I am happy to pay my. Whatever. We are totally willing to go there. Capital grounds is standing strong. We will never go away. I am here to stay. Go strong. I was just there the other day as you know. What was, so what was the amount of the late fees? It was $267. It was minuscule, but it was enough to make me upset. One, because I never pay anything late. I have even paid all of my city of Montpelier taxes for capital grounds. I was leaving town on September 30th and I put my check in the mail for the city of Montpelier and you guys cashed my check that was due on October 2nd on the 17th. So I just got the right amount of the late fees that I found about in November in December. And that is what, where this all came from. So it was, I can't even give you the exact amount, but I think it was like $267. To 37267 I had it in front of me and I have lots of papers in front of me because I got nervous. But if the critical problem is only under $63,000 that would be sorted. Is it on personal property? No, it's on the Langdon Street after that. Absolutely. Yeah. No requests for anything regarding to the capital grounds property. No. Correct. And the only report regarding Langdon Street 54th now is the late faith, which is 200 something. I think the motion that we made the late faith. And I read the second and let the town figure out the exact amount. Yeah. Thank you. Any discussion. We're sorry. I was like, I was like, it really stinks that we don't have a post office. I usually drop my check off and I was literally leaving town. And the fact that it didn't get cashed for almost three weeks was. Disgusting kind of, we really need. I know this isn't the point of this, but we need a post office and it sucks. I don't know Julia well, but I met her at my grandson's birthday party. That's by abstaining. Right. I just don't want to see everyone who's ever bought coffee or. I don't want to go. I don't. Yeah, I'm like, I don't like making a huge deal, but I do not like anything being late and I am very proud of. Like, you know, and when I get a late fee, I'm mad about it, especially when it's not my fault. All those in favor. Okay. I'm going to signify by saying hi. Hi. Well, Bob, are you a yes or a no. That's a yes and I. Okay. Great. All right. Thanks for coming in. You're getting your late feedback. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Have a good night, you guys. No. Yes. We only need a roll call. If it's a split vote at these meetings. Yeah. So now we are to. That we've been working towards for months. And we have. All these. Forms. Yeah. Should I move to go into deliberative session about the thing to do? Well, I guess, you know, we've, we've got right along. We've been thinking we were going to be going into deliberative session. For this, because we. Had been told, and I don't know even from where that we would have the ability to go into deliberative session. To. To discuss this, I haven't actually seen that in the statute, but. I think it's fair to make a motion to go into deliberative session. But we may still need to come out of delivery session to. Make the decisions. Always. Yeah. Rosie, I'm just kind of curious if folks feel that we need to, because it might be more transparent. Since we're trying to be very fair and apply the same standard to everybody to not go into deliberative session. But if there's anything that anybody would want to. Yeah. Well, there's a motion. There's not a second yet. What was the pleasure? I'm fine to not go. I mean, I just think it would be more respectful of some of the circumstances and more free, free discussion to bounce around ideas that people can take offense to or not. And then come out of, out of the deliberate session. And talk about our rationale and our final decision. That's all. But. So is that a second? It's second. Okay. Any, any other discussion on. John Smolzman. Okay. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. All right. We're in exactly, we're in deliberative session. Okay. We are back in. Public session. Excuse me. I have to leave now. The session I got to go pick up a couple of kids from elementary school. So. Two 30 here in New Zealand. So. Okay. It looks pretty nice down there, Bob. We're, I hope you're having a good time. See you later. Bye. Okay. Is, is there a motion and would you, since I have this written up in a list, would somebody like me to read this and then someone else would adopt it as their motion. Okay. The. The decisions we come to or the conclusion we've come to. In deliberative session are the following. We are there where we're granting abatements. We're. Granting abatements for both the municipal and the education. Taxes. And. 93 state street. Two quarters 100%. 95 state street. Thank you for reading along to make sure I have it right. Two quarters 100%. Eight Langdon street. Two quarters. One third. Seven Baird street. Denied. Eight state street. Two quarters. One third. Two state street. Two quarters. One third. 124 main street. Two quarters. 100%. Seven spring street. Denied. Seven. Okay. So that should come out because that's not going to be part of the motion. Okay. 17 beer field. Denied. And that wasn't a previously active. 26 Woodrow. Penalties abated. 18 main street. Two quarters. 100%. Three 27 state street. Denied. 191 state street. $1933. 68 main street. Two quarters. 100%. 64. 68 main street. Two quarters. 100%. 148 state street. $5,000. 26 state St. Paul street. Denied. 24th street state street. Two quarters. 100%. You get the alright. We did abate a late fee on 27 state. Oh, okay. She asked tonight. Right, but we did that tonight. We voted on that previously in tonight's meeting. Right. Thank you. Okay. So do you want to make a motion incorporating those. Abatements. Okay. Okay. Okay. That's. Make the motion. And the events. Just listed. Carrier that we use. What are the. We made it for just the first two quarters of the. 20,000. 20,000. 25. Actually. 2000. 2000. 24. 24. 23. Perfect. Okay. And then the criteria. We also included that for multi-level buildings that we. Only factored in the level. So we're impacted. That's lost. And. The request was, was for less. We honored the request from the taxpayer. And we could not consider statements for basement space or below grade space. All right. Is there a second. Any discussion. All those babies signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed. All right. We have. Active. All the. Yeah. All right. And we can now. Oh yeah, you should totally take a picture. We're now. There you go. We're in adjourn. We're in adjourn at 835. Yeah.