 My name is Chris LeFey. I run a web development business called Classic City Consulting and I've been doing web development, web design, marketing, branding, the whole shebang since about 2004. I actually, as a brief little bit of history, I actually started doing web development in middle school and the wayback machine didn't really like me too much, but I was able to find one of my very first websites I ever created. So let's bring that back to like 2004 with front page and bringing things to the limit. Now that's what I'm, that's what I'm talking about. My brother and I started up a little business together called Goldmine at the same time and if you look that's a picture of him before he got stressed out and had six kids and that's me when I thought looking like John Krasinski would get me dates and it definitely did not. So that was back when the shag was popular. But what we're going to talk about some today is we're going to kind of start off with where web design is right now. Obviously, we're all WordPress people here and other things and other editors have come up like Squarespace and Wix and things of those lines. And so I'm going to kind of establish a baseline of where we're at and from there I'm going to talk about how you take this website that you have or that you're building for your customers and how you kind of bring it to the next level and not necessarily in terms of design, but in terms of how you really unleash yours or your customers unfair ban. So to start off there was a time back, you know, early 2000s, give or take, you either knew how to do web development or you didn't. There wasn't this middle ground of just being able to play with it. So your sites either were really really good or they sucked. And then there was this teeny tiny little middle ground of these mediocre websites, right? Because there isn't just anybody dabbling in web development around this time. But then what happens is we have this middle class of editors that come up. WordPress being one of them, right? Wix, Squarespace, all these other page building softwares and that curve changes in terms of the usability and just how customers interact with sites. Don't get me wrong, you still have your really good sites. You have your really fire pit bad sites. But then now there's this big middle ground of all these templated sites that look exactly the same as one another and they don't really do anybody justice for actually bringing in business. So it kind of showcased this. I went online and I found some examples of different sites utilizing Squarespace, Wix, even WordPress. And so we, and by the way, if any of these example sites are y'all, I apologize. Totally not planned. I just went on a random hunt. So sorry. So here we have, you know, let's just look at the basic elements here. We have a hamburger menu on the left. We have a logo on the right. We have some icons and a really big oversized picture. We've all seen this site before, right? Then we go here. It's pretty much the same thing. Here, oh, well they actually, here they put three in a row instead of just one big one. Okay, that's cool. Let's go over here. Again, big image, hamburger on the right, logo at the top. We're talking all these same site designs. And don't get me wrong, there's something to be said about consistency and putting things in the correct locations. But we lose this unique factor for our customers when we are putting everything in the same spot. And so here, I'm just going to kind of flip through a few more of just sites again that look exactly the same. And they're not even built off the same template even. These are all built using different templates, different structures, different backend editors, but they all look the same. And so just by looking at this, if the logos were blacked out, would you have any idea what these sites are? Probably not. So I'm going to go through and even look, dribble in the hands. Now, this is a little bit dated, I will say, but even dribble in the hands look very similar. Now, they do serve the same target audience. But again, there's this lack of this trying to define what your competitive advantage is in the marketplace. And we're finding these templates and structures that look good. They're all visually appealing sites. We can't say no to that, but they're not showcasing how you answer problems for people. They're just visual appeals. And so the first step of how we solve this is the UI and UX thing. Who all knows the difference between UI and UX? And yes? Okay, some of you. Okay. So I'm not going to spend a lot of time on it, but the very basics of UI is how a site looks. Is it pretty? Is it easy to look at? Does it draw attention well? On the flip side, user experience is about can a user actually use the site? Like my little clicker here says next slide and previous slide. It doesn't look pretty, right? But it does exactly what I need it to do. The user experience on it is good. So really one of these first things that we need to figure out relative to either your company or the customers that you're trying to build sites for is what is the primary goal? What is that action that you're looking for them to take and make it obvious? So I want to pull up a site about OneNote. We all probably know what OneNote is. It's Microsoft's note-taking app, right? This is a dated screenshot of OneNote, but if you look at it, they have the company name or the program name OneNote and they have the call to action download the app. That's great. Looking at this, what does this thing do? We have a picture of a notebook and a pencil, but where does it say that you can take notes digitally online, access across all devices? Where does it tell you what it does? It's not there. Now I took a screenshot of what it is right now and the UI is beautiful. It looks great, right? It's super clean. It's easy to look at. That's all wonderful. But the user experience is a lot better because now they're naming their product OneNote. They also have the ability to buy up at the top and a call to action button. You know that they either want you to sign in or sign up and then they made this really cool graphic and this graphic by itself tells you exactly what problem they're solving for you, the consumer. It shows that it's a notebook because you can see all the handwriting on it. You can see that you can import images into it and you can make checklists and to-dos. So what OneNote has officially done is basically take their old site that they had and said what problems are we solving for people and how can we visualize that problem being solved in as few words possible and the only things that they have on here is your digital notebook. So combined with your digital notebook, very easy call-to-action items that are colored appropriately and sized appropriately with good imagery. You can look at the top of the screen without even scrolling and know exactly what OneNote does for you. Now I'm picking on Microsoft a lot. I don't know why it just happened to be that way. I actually have nothing against Microsoft. So this is the current Surface website. I know what a Surface is because I'm in development. But the only place that Surface is notated is all the way up there at the top in tiny letters. Now I know Microsoft sites. I know where to look. But if I didn't Google this, I would have no idea what this is. Now the one thing I do like about this in terms of its user experience is this right here. Even though it's not pretty, the UI isn't good. You look at those links and those links pretty much are everything you'd want to do when thinking about buying a Surface. So even though the UI on their new Surface site may not be the best and they may not be using their words very well to explain what it is, their user experience and knowing these are the five things I want my customers to be able to do, they nailed that. Now that should technically be a little bit higher up on the page, a little bit bolder, but we'll pass through that for now. So other than how the site is designed, layout and structured, the really the thing that we kind of keep coming back to is the content that's on the site. And this is the most overlooked part of the web design and development process, in my opinion. I go and I build a website for a company. We'll take a law firm, for example, and they're like, oh, we already have a website. It's like 10 years old, but we can just buy a new template and throw the content in there and it's all good to get. That's adding to that mediocre section of websites where you're just copying and pasting content without really thinking through how you're solving problems for people. And so this is where we kind of walk through the steps of how do we solve this usability problem with words. And that's where you can unlock your unfair advantage either for yourself or for your customers. So a couple questions we want to go over here. The first one being is who? Who is your target customer? Now, we're going to go and we're going to walk through these questions again and I'm actually going to put myself in the spotlight. But what you want to do here is let's say you're a marketing person. Marketing, there's a lot of stuff that goes with marketing, right? You can't be everybody's solution to every single problem that they have. So when you're asking the question who do you serve, narrow that down to the one or two things you do the best or your customer does the best. Ask them to pick because the people that are broad, they typically don't really know how they serve their people well. So the first one question is who are you serving? What are those verticals? And they could be either verticals that generate a lot of revenue right now and that are good for business, or these verticals could be industries that you quite haven't tapped into yet and that you want to expand into. So it's a mix of both and that's a business decision. You have to figure out what are those one or two verticals that you want to attack, whether they're current or whether they're new. Once you define who, you want to look at each of those and say, okay, what problems am I solving for that vertical? It's not what services can I throw at them because any website, especially with web development companies, you scroll the top and it says we build websites and then it says WordPress, website hosting and design, right? And three little icons right below it. You want to figure out why these people want these services? Why does the end customer go to your website? What problem are they having? That's what you need to be able to answer. And if you can answer that question for them before they even realize that they have it kind of consciously, then you're already making that emotional connection with them before they pick up the phone and call you or submit a contact form or do the live chat or whatever it is. You're already winning in their book because you've shown them that you understand where they're at. The next piece of this is how are you going to guide them to their solution? Don't just, again, the same thing with the service. Just don't throw a service at their face and say, oh, you need web design. Oh, you need web development or whatever that happens to be. Show them, hey, I know where you're at here and this is the path to go and get this completed and kind of guide them through it. If anybody is familiar with Storybrand by Donald Miller, you're going to kind of hear some of the same terminology that I'm kind of talking through here. But you guide them through so that they can see what success, what that solution looks like. And speaking of a solution, you have to know why your projector just stops working. Let's see here. Well, did my laptop, no, my laptop's not dead. Right, yeah, exactly. Blue screen. All right, let's see if that just works. This is a very example-oriented presentation because it really helps to see rather than me just talking words of you. I mean, there's a lot of more examples there. I'm hoping that this, oh, maybe. Victory, okay. All right, present, no. Present. There we are, okay. And, oh, it's already up there. Are we still connected? Yes, we are connected. Awesome, okay. So, sorry about that, guys. So where was I at? Defining, oh, and showing what success. So yeah, figuring out what that solution is. And then what you want to do at that point is show them what success looks like. So let's say you're a plumber and you fix toilets, for example. You could put on your services list, we service toilets. Or you could put something along the lines and a header at the top. Don't let that overflowing toilet ruin your next Super Bowl party. You make that emotional connection, right? It's like, oh, crap, I definitely don't want that to happen. And there's 30 people in my house and now I have to deal with that. Or somebody goes to your site and says, oh, they do fun. What's more engaging? What pulls you in more? And so you have to show them what success looks like. You can't just say you will be successful. But on the flip side of success is failure. And so with failure, you have to show them what that also looks like as well. Now you don't want to drive the point home so far to where you're the negative Nancy here, right? Nobody likes working with those kind of people. But again, kind of with that overflowing toilet problem, you show them both of those versions in that one sentence. If they don't utilize you, they're going to have that overflowing toilet in the middle of their 30-person party. So that's what failure looks like. But then success looks like, oh, we're okay, we don't have to worry about that anymore. So in order to show them their success, you need to also be able to mention what it looks like if they don't work with you as well. So to kind of illustrate this as best as I can, I'm actually in the middle of doing this for my own business. Now, you go to my site right now, you're going to be like, Chris, you're lying fool, you don't do this on your site. I know I'm doing it now, I promise. So what I want to do is I want to look a little bit introspectively here. So about a year or so ago, I looked at my business, and again, I've been doing this for 15 years. And the way that I run my business is when I find somebody that's good at content writing, I kind of pull them in. When I find a good photographer, I kind of pull them in. And what I've done in the past was I've updated my website to show this. And what happened was when I looked at my website last year, I saw this. This was my services list on my website. What do I do the best out of that list? Nobody had any idea that I might get some calls about, oh, yeah, you're a one-stop shop for everything. But yes, that's true. But it doesn't give me the clients that I was interested in working with, which was web development. They're the people that mom and pop shops that just wanted everything under one roof and really didn't want to pay for it that much. So we're in the process of stripping that down to where we only do web development and branding. And that's all. Now, don't get me wrong. If somebody comes to me and says, hey, Chris, can you do the photography before us as well? Sure, of course. You can still do these things. But you don't want to overload your potential customers with a wall of services. That would be my problem. So now that I've figured that out, I'm going to go ahead and start walking down these lines of who do we serve. So for me, what that example looks like is twofold. We serve mom and pop shops with web development that has smaller budgets. And we work with a lot of agencies because those agencies don't have WordPress. They might do other things. And so I want to use my services and my team that I have to help them expand their growth model. So then what's next? We have to define what those problems are for those two verticals. So for mom and pop shops, what I hear all the time is I'm locked out of my site. I cannot get into my site. I don't know how to edit it. I wasn't educated on it. Or I can do all of that, but I don't have a copy of it. So I don't know how to get access to it and move it away from my current developer. All these horror stories. For the agency side of things, what problems we're trying to solve for them is really just growth. They're interested in building a partnership with somebody that has skills that they don't have so that they can focus on what they do best and allows us to focus on what we do best. So those are the problem sets for the two industry clients that we're pushing out for. And some of you all might say that they're still a little bit too broad. They are, but they were a lot more broad than they were than this before. So now we start talking about the solutions that we're going to provide them. So with mom and pop shops, what I have figured out when I do my pitch to smaller companies that have smaller budgets, I tell them, hey, when we're done with your site, we're going to shoot you five to seven educational training videos. They're going to be posted on a private YouTube playlist on your website so that you know how to edit. Give or take 90% of your website. And you can access them whenever you want. They're all yours. If you want me to zip them up and email them to you, I can do that too. When the site's done, do the same thing. We'll take all the files of everything. We'll zip it up just in case anything goes wrong. You have a copy of your site. Obviously I hope that never happens. But I want to be on the same side because I respect you as a business owner and I don't want you to ever be stuck in that terrible position. On the flip side, agencies, again, it's all about growth. They want to have a partner that they can rely on that does what we do best so that they can focus on all their other stuff and growing their business. And if we're not allowing them to grow their business, then we're not doing our job. So that's how we provide the solution. And then what does success look like? Yes? If you put them on YouTube, do you make them live or do you make them unlisted? Unlisted is the right word. I think I said private, which required password. The unlisted. I didn't require it. No, no, no, no, you're good. No, yeah, no. There's not these 200 training videos that are random people's sites that are searchable on YouTube. Sweet mercy. No, no. I've actually had a couple of questions about that. Can anybody access things? I'm like, well, they know the 20 digit ID. Yeah, but it's not going to happen. So yes, they're all private things. They're unlisted, I should say. So with success, so we have to define what success looks like for these two verticals. And for mom and pop shops who really just want to build their website once and be done with it and they probably don't really do much editing on it, they just want it to be easy. That's all. They don't want to have to lift a finger. They just want it to get done because they're spending a good portion of their savings account on this site and they don't want to, they don't want to worry with it. They don't want to be, they don't want to be, you know, that's what I'm looking for. They don't have any problems with it. And then for the other side on the agencies, they want to have more business growth opportunities. They want to be opened up to be able to expand their business in multiple ways. So that's kind of how we've walked through kind of our business and going forward with this. And so what I want to do here is I have about kind of 10 examples of things. So based off of the four questions that we've already kind of gone over, I want to take a look at some sites of people that do, that answer these questions well and also don't because I feel like kind of looking through some visuals kind of helps kind of drive home some of these points that I've been preaching at you about. So, hey, pardon? No? You can go. There's some place in the back. So if y'all are from Georgia, chances are you've probably heard this guy. And again, same thing with the other ones. I don't know any of these people. I pulled off sites that I just heard on radio ads, TV ads, et cetera. So this lawyer figured out that the main problem he was solving for these personal injury clients was they always got to run around with lawyers. And so his thought was, hey, if we can figure out a way the first time they get a call, they get to talk to somebody that can help them out, that's going to be a win. So that's the problem that they're solving for them. Now, whether they do that or not, I have no idea. But their slogan, and I've heard it TV and radio for the last decade, one call, that's all. And because of that, you know exactly what you're going to get. And so you should hopefully be able to call the one number and not have to worry about anything else. You shouldn't be given the run around by this guy. So over here we have Microsoft OneDrive, which does a really good job at the very top. I think I highlighted something. Nope, I didn't highlight anything on this one. And that first sentence at the very top of the page, files, photos, any device, anywhere, C plans, sign up. Just those four little phrases, I know exactly what this does. No questions asked. This is why constant is important. This is why figuring out what problems you solve for people is important because now, instead of using a wall of paragraph text, you use one sentence and two buttons that takes no visual space on your site. And now people can know exactly what you do without really having to think too hard. You don't want people to think too hard when they're on your site. This is a t-shirt company down in Florida, and I scroll down a little bit. And it's a little bit too long, but the thing is, big bold what we do, and then there's four simple bullet points. You read those bullet points and you fully understand exactly how they serve you best, whether you use their designs, whether you upload your own, and how easy it is. And then you also have this guy down here, which is kind of hard to read, but it uses very much millennial jargon in it, and so if that strikes a chord with you, you're going to feel that emotional connection. So you're going to read these four things and be like, okay, that's easy. And then you're going to see this guy who looks like a hippie Trinster over here saying sup fam. And you're going to feel that emotional connection with this brand even before you click on that guy to go talk to him. I actually chatted with them and they sent me a free shirt within five minutes. It was great. So if you're going to do something like this, that's actually one other thing. If you're going to do something like a live chat or whatnot, unless it's, if it's automated bot, make sure it's programmed well so it kind of feels like you're talking to a real person. If you're going to have the option to do live chat, make sure you have somebody there. I chatted with this guy at 9 p.m. after hours, and we chatted for about 15 minutes about t-shirt stuff. So if you're going to do things, make sure you do them well and don't do it halfway. This is a t-shirt company. It's actually the only company that I do know, so that is the one disclaimer. But they provide, they do a lot of outdoor wear shirts. And they don't use a lot of words. But the thing is, if you look at their menu bar, you have an idea that they're clothing company. They have a big white-called action. The bottom left-hand corner visit the shop, and right smack in the middle is their t-shirt on a guy throwing a rock. And then they also have a slider down here at the bottom as well to showcase some other things. I'm a fan of sliders. That's another topic for another day. But without even using words, you can still get away with trying to... Not trying, but you can still get away with showcasing what you do for people even with really just one called action button and some links at the top. But they know their brand. Their brand is very visual. And so they had to put that on the forefront. And it doesn't look like all of their clothing sites. A lot of clothing sites have just tiles. Think Amazon, right? You have all these tiles across the page. You pick which one. They decided, you know, they're going to go kind of swing for the fences and either hit a home run or strike out. And so they put their one product here in hopes that that will help trigger conversions. And it's been working so far. Netflix. Netflix actually toggles their home pages. My wife and I were looking at this. She was helping me collect some screenshots. I got this one, and my wife got a different one. And so they were doing some what's called AB testing. Again, that's another interesting topic. If you're interested in learning about conversions, do some Googling on AB testing. But what I thought was really interesting about this is whenever people try to force me to give them a credit card before I can do the free trial, I'm like, shoot, they're going to wait 30 days and they're going to charge my credit card. They're not even going to remind me. Well here, they visually show that they're going to email you a three-day reminder to cancel. So they're going to remind you to cancel three days ahead of time. And if they didn't show that, I would have no idea that they're going to remind me ahead of time. But they took the extra step and they figured out that the problem that a lot of people have about signing up for free when there's a credit card involved is getting a reminder email and making sure that they can cancel. So now they've kind of visually shown me, oh, you care. You don't want to kind of, you know, get me caught in a bad situation where I have to ask for a refund and I don't want to do that. Now they've solved that problem and they give you exact dates as well. So those dates were dynamic relative to the date that I pulled that up. So again, how to figure out how you solve those problems, whether it's in words, whether it's visual, whether it's a combination of both, it's about solving those problems before the user even thinks about that as a problem. The athletic, this is one of the, not one of the first, I shouldn't say that, but it's a sports journalism site that is pay to read. And so this is one of the first legitimate ones that I'm a big sports fan. And this is the first one of the most legit ones I found that is relatively cheap and it's paid and that is actually being, that's actually successful. And so right there they figured out that, you know, there's going to be this big curve of them trying to get people to subscribe to stuff that they could get very readily available like ESPN, Sports Illustrated, Bleacher Report, et cetera, whatever those other ones are. And so they've called themselves the new standard of sports journalism. So they're already setting the bar of expectation for people. And then immediately they have their two call to action buttons. Start your free trial logging in at the top. And so again, very minimal word usage here, you're seeing a trend and these sites that are doing it well, they're not using a lot of words, they're not using paragraphs of text, they're figuring out the problem they want to solve and they're showcasing that. If they didn't say that they're the new standard of sports journalism then other people might be thinking, okay, this is just like all the other free sites out there, right? Excellent. I love Sticker Mule site. Sticker Mule is the best at stickers. And I mean, just look, oh, I thought I put boxes on all these, sorry. That top left hand corner, literally everything you need to know about Sticker Mule is in two sentences and two buttons. Because I know me when I first bought from them, I wanted to know how to get samples. Big button. Shop now, big button. Custom stickers that kick ass. Obviously, you know exactly what kind of quality they're going to give you and of course it goes dead again. But again, two sentences, right? Two sentences, two buttons, and then the imagery that was all there. So the die-cut stickers, which at the time that they started, not many people, not many companies did that. They gave you the circle stickers on a roll. I believe they were one of the first legitimate companies that actually provided custom die-cut stickers at a relatively reasonable price. And so again, they showcase that on their site with the imagery that they used, the two sentences and the two buttons. So let me see here if this will work for me. I just need five more minutes. Let's see if this will work. Over there. There we go. So this one. This is one that did it that is the opposite. So tell me, now I will say the background is a video. I took a screen capture of the worst possible still I could purposefully. Does anybody have any idea who this is? Nope, exactly. This is a place called Topgolf. Anybody does see exactly, it's very small, but what is Topgolf? I know what Topgolf is because I've driven by it 10,000 times. But looking at this... It's a guitar, isn't it? It's a guitar, right? Yeah, it's a guitar, exactly. They had a video of live music and stuff, all the fun stuff that they're doing. But this site tells me nothing about what they're about, what you can do going there. They use a minimal amount of words, which is great. But there's nothing here that says you can golf with your friends with very unique games and cool different whole layouts and all the stuff that they do. I've never been, so I don't really know exactly how to explain it. But this is a good example of a great design. I mean, it's beautiful to look at. But in the UX, it's very easy to figure out where they want you to go. The buttons are clear, reserve all the menu items on the left. They're called actions in the middle. But this is where they're not showcasing that competitive advantage, that unfair advantage that they have, which is their very unique twist of how you go and do a golf outing with friends even if you've never played golf before. So this was one that was just... It looked beautiful, but again, it comes down to the words. It comes down to how you serve your customers. And they're not showcasing that here. Yes. Exactly, yes. Or even their store layout, but their golf course is very picturesque. And if you combine even just somebody kind of on the backswing of golf with their course, just that by itself, at least it shows that, okay, we're going to be golfing, but it's not golf. It's different. Exactly, to show that it's fun, right? Exactly. But the majority of this video was the social aspect of it. It was just people drinking and people playing music. It wasn't really about the golf. And so I picked the worst screenshot I could possibly find of it to showcase that. So really what I want to do now, we have about five minutes, because I want to make sure you get out of here on time. Does anybody have any questions about any of this stuff that we've talked about so far? Yes. Yeah, so there is a book by a guy named Donald Miller called Storybrand. And the path that I walked you all through was not Storybrand exactly, but it was very close. So Storybrand is a fantastic book. I highly recommend it. Anybody else? Yes. Exactly. Yeah, honestly, I think almost the tagline is more important than either the logo or the brand name, because honestly, look at all the companies you see that have stuck around for 20, 30 years, and they have ugly logos. But their tagline, if that explains exactly how you solve problems for people, you win. Yes. So you really, and in case anybody didn't hear, how do you choose hero images for websites? So something like this, how can you not make that happen? And really my two cents on that is if you can, again, kind of go back to what we were talking about before, defining the problem that you're solving. And so in Topgolf's case, they're solving a way to make golf fun again for a younger generation. And so being able to showcase golf, fun, and their unique atmosphere in a single image, if possible, that would be the win. Now with consulting companies and things like that, things like what I do, it's a little bit harder to get that feeling from a photo. And so for things that are a little bit more intangible, I always recommend going with real photos of yourself, your team, your actual customers, because there is a difference. Even if you take your photos professionally, just like stock photos are taken as well, there's a huge difference of, oh, that's the guy that I met with. Or I saw that guy on LinkedIn or Facebook or Twitter, you know that it's real and you start making that kind of behind the scenes in your brain connection with those people. So it's really figuring out that problem that you're solving and if you can capture that in a photo or a drawing or whatever your style is, that's what that hero image is. And that's part of the reason I don't like rotating banners is you should have your one image, that one thing that defines you and let that stick because the second one is not going to be as good. It's not going to be as pointed. Yes, you were first. Some of the stuff you showed, I noticed the logos were pretty small and the clients that want their logo to be six feet tall and we push back on that all the time. Is it your experience that in modern design, the logos seem to be tinier? Now for the most part, I wouldn't say micro-sized but it's more about people, even if you do business to business transactions like I do. I'm still the person, at least with my business, I'm on the front line saying, hi, my name's Chris, I want to do business with you, right? And you're my customer. You don't really care what my business name is, right? You want to make a connection with me. It's this human to human connection. So it's not really as much about the logo. It's more about can you make that connection and can you bridge that gap? So it's hard to win that fight with customers, I totally understand it. Create the logo and a vector so you can make it big. Yeah, there you go, yeah, exactly. When they do ask for a 30 feet height. Exactly. I think you had your hand up first. I haven't done as much, a lot of the screen recording systems like Lucky Orange and Hot Jar, they build it into their platform so that you can make those changes on the platform and actually not edit your website. So I would look into those, I would just Google AB testing, but I know Hot Jar is one of the biggest ones out there. I don't have as much experience with it, some other people might, but that's what I would probably look into first. Hot Jar, H-O-T-J-A-R. Over here, yes. I do service mom and dad and the agency. But certain businesses, they have more service offerings. And on a website, like you use Microsoft and they have individual websites, they have websites for service or maybe landing pages. One drive is another, skype is another, and so on and so forth. My question is, how do you put like five different lines of services on your website and be able to do justice to all of them? And that is a very interesting question. That's where you really need to kind of take a dive into of how the business is structured. Because you can't just on the homepage blast them with five different things, right? You have to figure out how, what is most important? What is second? What's third? What's fourth? What's fifth? And that's a business development question. And then based on what the answers to those questions are from a business development standpoint, you figure out what problems each of those lines solve. And obviously, each of them have landing pages, right? And you kind of figure out how do you solve those problems within those landing pages. But your question is more, how do you kind of create that homepage structure? And that's really kind of on a case-by-case basis. You have to figure out from the business what is important because you really can only showcase one or two things at a time. You don't have unlimited real estate above the fold. So it's more of a case-by-case basis on that one. So I know that's not really the answer you probably wanted to hear, but that's a difficult one unless, you know, knowing the business objectives. So all right, so we have two minutes before 10.50. Does anybody else have any questions before we wrap up? Yes. All you mean on the homepage? I wouldn't necessarily say there's a limit. Now, you do need to be careful of page side, load times, all that kind of fun stuff. But for example, the t-shirt company, that's going to be a lot more image heavy, right? Then my company's marketing website for consulting services. So you really have to balance what needs images in order to sell. And so for the t-shirt company, you're going to have a lot of images. That's just going to be the case. But if you're somebody like me, you want to show that human interaction, it's going to be a lot less. You have to use a little more words to kind of balance things out. But with t-shirts, throw images on the screen with the buy now button. Make it simple. So yes, and I'm going to go probably over to the happiness bar after this. So if anybody else has questions afterwards, I'm going to go across over there. But yeah, go ahead. I actually have a link at the end of my presentation. It's, let me actually pull it up really quick. Oh, there, oh crap. There we go. Classic, not classic, but clsc.city slash wcatl. And that'll take you right to the Google Slides. Well, I hope you all got some stuff out of this. I hope it was good for you all. I am going to go over to the happiness bar for a little while. So if you have any other questions, feel free to join me over there and I will answer whatever I can for you.