 It is the 9th of April, 2021. A very good morning to you. Thank you very much for keeping it Y254. My name is Ram Maguco. We are broadcasting live from the broadcasting house here in Nairobi, Kenya. It is Y254 TV. We appreciate your presence right here on this show. This is Power Talk, a conversation that we are having today is one that has interested so many people, organizations, government entities and individuals. Today we are talking about toxic relationships. That's right. Toxic relationships. That is what we shall be conversing today. Remember, according to statistics and research that has been done so far, we have data from the National Crime Research Center which shows that lifetime prevalence of sexually and gender-based violence for women stands at 38% against 20.9% for men as of now. This is what has been mostly aligned to toxic relationship, violence, hate. When we talk about toxic relationships, what do we mean? Today on Power Talk, we are having a conversation to help us with Pastor Ken Okoth. He is joining me today. He is a motivational speaker. He is a lecturer and a teacher. He is also a counselor who teaches at the African Nazarene University. Karibusana Pastor. Thank you so much. And it's a pleasure having you. You're also joining me today. I'm also joined by none other than Susan Nganga. He is a youth leader and founder of Prime Holiday Adventures. Karibusana Susan. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Sara Nganga, sorry. Yes. All right. It's a pleasure having you also right here on Y254. This is Power Talk. You can be part of this conversation right here. The hashtag is always a Power Talk show on Twitter. Head over to Twitter. Give us your thoughts in regards to these toxic relationships. Should we move on? When do we move on? That is a question. Give us your take on Facebook. Also Y254 is very confined as the hashtag is Power Talk show on Twitter, at Y254 channel, at Ram, at Google. Let's get this show going. We shall sample your feedback as we continue. Remember, we also ask our viewers to send in their thoughts if you're not going to be available on Twitter or Facebook. You can also send us a one minute clip of yourself telling us what you think about toxic relationships. When should we move on? OK, we shall sample those clips as we continue with this conversation this morning. Karibunisana. Asante. All right. Let me start with the first of all dispensing of this. We are talking about toxic relationships, but some of you may wonder, is my relationship toxic? How can I know that I am in a toxic relationship? Just from the definition, what is a toxic relationship in your view, Sarah? Toxic relationship. I mean, when maybe you're not happy and you feel like the relationship is not benefiting you, maybe as it's used to, or the intentions as to why you got into the relationships are not well-served. I think that's when you now get aware that I'm in a relationship. When you feel like whatever you wanted is not what you get. Yes. OK. I think a toxic relationship, first of all, maybe to define what a relationship must be defined within friendship. And in a friendship environment, people's interests and needs are always met within a friendship or a relationship. When somebody's interests are never taken into consideration, they feel hurt. To the point that there's some relationship that a partner may become kind of a jealous and therefore a dangerous person to be in a relationship with, that's when you know it is toxic. And just to dispense of it even further, if I want to leave the house and go to town, my partner says, no, you cannot do that. Does that qualify as one sign that I'm in a toxic relationship? Because you said not getting to be able to do what you want in that environment. Yes. Does that also qualify? It may seem so. Communication is a dynamic thing. The tone variation. The tone of the person who is speaking and how you perceive that kind of communication may be able to show you whether the person is really infringing on your rights or not. Because sometimes they may say no, but they are saying it in a friendly way and giving you some kind of advice and reasons for you not going to town at that moment. Some people just say no and they are adamant. Just hold your microphone closer to your mouth. Yes. And so they say no. And they say they don't give you valid reasons. It shows that they are just in a situation in which they are commanding. They are having their way while your interests are not taken care of. OK. Let me come to you. When someone says that they are being abusive to you, how far and how deep can our relationship be toxic? What are the elements that shows that this thing is actually getting to a point of no return? When maybe your partner heats you or maybe you're having a difference when it comes to communication. Like our friend here is saying, I can be saying no to something just to hurt you, not because I want you maybe to go to town, but I want to tell you that don't go just for my selfishness or personal gains. So I think when maybe the communication, you lose the communication. And then the next time you're fighting, it gets physical. So if someone says, don't do this, then that relationship is toxic? Not really, but you should get the reasons as to why that person is saying no. Maybe you've asked for something, or maybe you really need something. Or maybe you're having a difference when it comes to interest. So that's when now maybe it becomes physical. Not really saying no, but the reasons as to why that person is disagreeing with you on certain issues. So they disagree with you without giving possible reasonable valid reasons. If I am to give different examples also. We have scenarios where husbands and wives may disagree at some point in the house. And the husband tells the wife, or the wife tells the husband, I would like you to stop interacting with the person X, Y, and Z, and stop going to place A, B, and C. Does that also give someone the lack of freedom? And someone will say that, hey, you can't force me to do what you want. Thereby making them go get into a disagreement. And that's what leads to domestic violence. To a given extent, yes. But you've got to realize that our backgrounds sometimes nurture us in a given environment to the point that when we express ourselves, our background comes into the picture. Sometimes the way we speak, the way we communicate, is a very key component of our relationship with the person that we do have before us, especially when it comes to marriage relationship. In the beginning, we were talking just about people relating. It may be just a relationship that is starting that has not really led to marriage. Especially now when people start to live together, that's when you realize who people really are. I always tell people that it is in marriage when the gifts of the Holy Spirit will be tested in your life. And so at that point, somebody will be who they are. In the beginning parts of relationship, the preliminary stages, people hide their feelings, they had what they. You may never really know what somebody loves and what they don't love. But in a relationship now that is in the confine of marriage, then you will always know a person for who they are. And when they say no to something, they may think that they have rights. But marriage, even marriage is based on friendship. Can you be able to predetermine someone's toxicity at the initial stages before even getting married to them? I think you can. You can when you get to interact with a person deeply. Deeply, and how deep is deep? You can't hide everything. And you'll always spot something that maybe doesn't make you happy. And it's better at that point you point it out. You know, I don't like this, I don't like that. So that your partner knows that she doesn't, when I go or I step at this point. And that's when now the respect comes in. So when you start living with a person, it becomes a little bit easier because now you know what the person wants. They might, I agree with you, some hide, especially maybe things that they think, you know, when this person realizes it, they realize that I'm like this, she's going to run away or he's going to leave me. So they hide, but there are some things that you can take and there are some things that you cannot take. So, and you better lay them. So how do you really rate? Pastor, you've done cancelling for many people. Yes, a lot of time. It includes also those... My everyday life. It's part of your life. Everyday life. As you cancel someone, can you be able to predetermine that this person is actually someone who has violent tendencies? You can. It's, I, as a counselor, can. And you know my role as a counselor is not to make decisions for people. But to give them an ability and capacity to make decisions in a godly way. For themselves. For themselves. And in many times, in our conversations, like maybe the first time when I'm cancelling somebody and they come, I sit with my wife and we sit with them and we ask them about their backgrounds so that we can be able to know their faith values that we may be able to know where they have come from. People's values are within their cultures. And so, yes, their culture. Culture carries a lot of things. And you know that culture is hidden in a language. So most of the time, our first language orient us to a given culture. You may be a luo, but born in a situation in which the environment does not give you an opportunity to really be a luo. So the culture of the surrounding will always come into play whenever you talk to people. And as you talk to people, you realize that sometimes they're not very compatible. You ask them simple questions like, how many children would you like to have? And then ladies would say four or two. And then this young man would say six. But in most of these conversations, men are always erratic. Because they want more children. In their view, their perception and their worldview makes them be erratic because they are not ready to dialogue. You realize the lady may say four, but they still have room to talk. And ladies are very cooperative. They are very cooperative, especially to a person who wants to reason with them. And even today, I always tell men in my church that all problems in marriage relationship begin with men. It's only that ladies work with a jerry can or petrol. When they realize that a situation is difficult, they don't know how to handle it, and they pour more petrol to it. So Pastor, you're saying most or in other words, all toxic relationships are to be blamed to the men. It's only that now the women fuel it up. They fuel it up. So it's the men who have that problem. Men always have a leadership role that God has given them. And so many times, they use that role knowingly or unknowingly to start a problem even without them knowing. Do you agree with that, Sarah? She doesn't want to know me. How do I let her know she doesn't want to know me? She doesn't want to know me. She doesn't want to know me. What do you think? Interestingly, but not in all cases. Yeah, not in all cases, because, you know, bottom line, it depends on the reason as to why you want to be in that person's life. So and for your own reasons, if you're malicious, then it works against you. So I don't agree that men are all causes of relationship marriages, issues around things. And I want to chip in. In many of my cases, situations, not real life, because as a pastor, I live with people. You know, you cancel them. Sometimes they are members of my church. Maybe one of them is a member of my church. So you realize that marriage will extend beyond that canceling room. And you live to see the aftermath of that relationship decision. In many cases, ladies can see telltale signs of somebody's misconduct or maybe a behavior problem. But sometimes it's like the politicians say that the train has left the station. So you realize they begin to pray, to ask God to confirm if this person is really the person or not. But at the back of their mind, they've already made a decision. OK, that is what they want. They know what they want, but they're just praying for God. That's why I tell you, mostly it is men who start off these problematic issues, toxic environment. But women are well-meaning. Now, let me get it further. When I'm in a toxic relationship, is it only when they beat me? When you start disagreeing and you can't come to a possible solution. I think that's when now you can't reason together, like Mr. Okwati is saying. You can't get your minds together to fix something. So I think when you lose in communication, conversations, now the relationship starts. Sarah, if it were you, let me put you on the spotlight. If it were you, when a man beats you up and apologizes, and a copiga, and laughs at you, they beat you up again and apologize. Every time it's a cycle. How many times do you forgive them? I think there is some foolishness when there is a saying that says that, or people believe or a notion that if a man hits you, he loves you, and most people buy is that, actually. And for me, personally, it's you hit me once and that's the end of you hitting me You're trying to hit me? Even trying to hit me, I think it is. The next time you're going to beat me up, even to kill me, to the next end of eliminating me, so why would you wait for a person to kill you or harm you? I believe everyone needs to be loved, right? Are you saying that anyone who beats you can kill you? Yeah, what if you... Any hitting, I mean... Ram, if you have maybe issues with maybe health and maybe you're not even aware, somebody hits you and you collapse, you die. You don't know when it's supposed to hit the other person. I mean, you're supposed to live peacefully. Even women slap men? Many times. Even women slap men? Many times. And I've seen men, even in movies, when they poke a coffee at their man, he's like... I don't think that's how people should resolve their issues. For me, I don't think that's the way of inflicting pain in somebody's body. It's not the right way to go. I always think that toxic relationship does not just mean violence. There are people who know how to get their way. They can... You know, like we always define a sin as a commission or omission of something. There are people who can even keep quiet. Even as there being... They don't talk to you. And that becomes toxic. They are supposed to talk, but they refuse to talk. Or they talk when it's not supposed to be the right time for you to talk. Master, let me cut you short there. I hope you don't lose your train of thought, but you're saying someone who keeps quiet has the ability to frustrate you. Yes. Let me give an example. You ask a woman, are you okay? She says, I'm fine. Yes. Are you sure you're okay? She says, I'm okay. But if you look at their face and their behavior, they're definitely okay. It shows another thing. Yes. Is that also a sign of someone being toxic? That is a toxic relationship. So women are toxic. Because a toxic relationship in essence is a kind of relationship in which you are chocked. You can't enjoy. I always think that a relationship should be a situation or an environment in which you are free. Like she is saying, although I don't agree with that 100%, you should be free. You should be free. Like in modern days, we take our daughters to school, we take our sons to school, and we spend so much money in educating them. And then at the end of the university, when a master's or a PhD, then they get married maybe to a person who is not as educated as them. And the person, because of their own inferiority syndrome, begins to chock them through behavior and through words and through actions that they never begin for at the beginning of the relationship. They may not be violent, but they may be making somebody not feel free to enjoy life. Because relationship is based on friendship. It is foundational. Friendship is foundational in any relationship. People start with the relationship. That's why many times at the point of people beginning a relationship, let's say between a man and a woman, it begins with attraction. Attraction is just physical, isn't it? It is physical. And when somebody is attracted to a lady, or a lady is attracted to a man physically, they don't mean any harm. But first of all, you blame the man. Many times. And you blame both sexes. Yeah. But the question is, between men and women, who are more toxic? Who are more violent? Well, how can you know during a toxic relationship? Make sure that you head over to Facebook and answer these questions that we are asking. Our Facebook page is also up and running. And we've posted this on our pages there on Facebook and on Twitter. And these are issues that we talk about them. We read about them. We've watched them on TV, on news stories. Some of us have even been or gone through them. Toxic relationships. These are the issues that we're talking about. And how destructive can they be? How painful can it be to be in a toxic relationship? Is it just physical? Can it be emotional? Can it be psychological? Let me just read a few of your thoughts on Facebook. I'm seeing Nicky Francona-Sema that you do not feel like you can openly express your opinion. You don't have to work like a detective. So just move on. Irene, Jennifer, Anna Sema, a man, that's my pastor there. Someone is... Yes, I'm a senior pastor at Rongai First Church with Nazarene. Rongai First Church? Yes, it's the first church as you enter Rongai Township. Oh, that's why it's called the First Church? Yes. And it's also a first Nazarene church that was built in that locality. And I wonder how is it with COVID-19? Yeah, we are closed, but the building is closed, but we have many ways to connect and we always continue to minister to people in different ways. Okay, sour. That is Irene, Jennifer, sour, sour. Anna Sema, Reverend Kennedy, I am ready with my pen and paper to take notes. All right, thank you so much for your thoughts. Nicky Francona, let me pick what Nick said. You do not feel like you can openly express your opinion. That's what you had said earlier. Now, let me get to you, Susan. I am aware that in your capacity, you are actually the founder of Prime Holiday Adventures. Thank you, sure. It means you interact with different people every day as you move around the country. When you interact with people, have you seen couples and they are dating, they are together, they come to prime adventures and they're moving around, but the way they behave, you feel like one person is suppressed in that relationship. Is it possible for an outsider to pick out that this relationship that I see there is actually toxic? Yes, definitely. Even if you're just walking in a shopping mall or something, you can spot two people who are together and you realize these people are not... How can you tell? How can you tell? Someone is taking the other out. You are on an adventure. How can you tell? Some even would quarrel in front of people, like they are disagreeing and one can even leave the other. So, or maybe they wanted to go on a holiday and suddenly they just cancel because maybe one feels like I don't want to go with you or maybe you did something that I just want to make you suffer. You paid for a holiday, but I want to be available. Or maybe you're wasting money or something they're just disagreeing. As you look at your church members, can you be able to pick out church members that are in a toxic relationship but they are not saying anything. They are quiet about it. You know, this is something that you can see and my role from where I sit, I need always to be proactive. So, the kind of engagement that I provide for the people that come to my church and especially those who get married from the church, we provide a proactive environment in which we dialogue with them. You know, we always have premarital counseling and then we also have post-marriage counseling. So, within post-marriage counseling, we find an opportunity to deal with things that can be able to make any relationship toxic. Most of the time, relationships become toxic when people don't find an opportunity to share. Let me give you an example. There was a young man who got married to a very beautiful girl. They were all learned, all graduates, people who, many people always assume that university graduates are well-bred, isn't it? But I've been at the university, I've taught and I know that many are not well-prepared sometimes for marriage. That if you are in university, then you are ready for marriage. Many people think that people who go to the university are mature, they are well-bred, they know how to take care of themselves, have come to realize it's not so. That is just an academic environment. Somebody may be very sharp academically, but not really so when it comes to social sense. So, this young man got married, they went for a honeymoon, a beautiful wedding, but then I was a young person. And then they went for honeymoon, I admired their wedding, and when they went out there, two days later, I saw the lady. After marriage? After marriage. Two days after the wedding? Yes, but you know, because I was a young man in the church, I couldn't ask. Later on, I came to realize they had a difference, the honeymoon, because of issues related to sex. Wow. The lady was very spiritual, was brought up in a Christian family. I know it's not easy to find such. She was not well-schooled when it comes to social issues and sex, blah, blah. And this young man was okay. So when they went there, their discussions and trying to begin life, their first night brought a problem to them and the lady came back, her own understanding. So some of these things can be out of lack of knowledge and therefore the church needs to come in to help people to understand some things. All right, let me, let me, let me pose you their questions. Yes. That's quite an interesting story there. And I would like, you will continue with that after this break. Yes. But it's all about toxic relationships. When do you live? When do you move on? How do you deal with it? Do you stay and fight as we were taught by our grandmothers? At the, at the, at the end of the Kuvomelie? Kuvomelie. Let's take a break. We'll be back in a bit. U-5-4, imagine. All right. Thank you so much for keeping it to I-2-5-4. It's always a pleasure. I'm seeing so many comments up, you know, coming up on Facebook. And let me just read but a few. Winnie Julie. I understand one should live when it threatens their lives and individuals should, individuals should never use children to remain in toxic relationships. Children also part because it also affects them. We can heal by getting counseling and knowing that they deserve better when someone beats you and that's it. Don't beat you, that's it. Don't look back. That's putting your life in danger. I support Sarah. There are better ways of solving conflicts than getting physical. And during the show from Nakuru support, I support the pastor, men are the causes of problems many times. Yes. Wow. Men. Yes. Like you know, we had a story this week of a man who was killed, you know, this officer. Yes. I'm seeing Janet and some toxic relationships have red flags. Once your partner hits you or abuse you, leave. Don't wait for the worst to happen. I'm seeing one interesting one, by Elphas keep letting Kapsulu. This is interesting, hear this. At the point when a finger is pointed at you, at the point when the face shrinks in anger, at the point when you are slapped and kicked, at the point when you are threatened with death. If not, at the point when you are murdered. Wow. Faith, maganga, and I say, Taira to colloquial love in the conversation. Keep tweeting, keep texting. The hashtag as always is why. It is a power talk show at Y254 channel on Twitter at Ramaguku, make sure that you tag me as you continue with this conversation. It's all about understanding toxic relationships. When do you move on? Make sure that you be part of this conversation. If at all you're joining us here, just in time for the next part of this conversation. And I would like to come to you, Pastor. Before we went on a break, you're giving us a story about this couple. Yes. Married, went for honeymoon. Yes. But now because of the difference in upbringing, the lady has no clue about sexual issues, but the man has every clue about it. Yes. So they disagreed. What happened next? They did disagree and it took the council of the pastors to talk to them, but it took a lot of time. They didn't separate? They didn't separate, later on they started living together. But you realize that their difference came because of difference in perception, their worldview. They were trained by this life differently. They came maybe from different communities. One of the challenges I find today is that there are people who are not wired for cross marriages, for cross cultural marriages. There are people who are not wired for that. Yet they try to enter into a marriage with people outside of their community. There are people who should just, there's some people who tell them, you just try to get a person from your community because you won't do with a person out of your community. It will be problematic. And so sometimes those differences in education, in income, differences in culture, language, parent coaching, sometimes makes us not to be compatible. Otherwise, with some help, we can be able to learn to be together. All right. Let me come to you, Sarah. Let me touch on sexual abuse because now this is where things also get nasty in relation to what he said. At what point should you be able to determine that this is now sexual abuse? That my own husband or my own wife is abusing me sexually. Is there a line that needs to be drawn when it comes to this matters? Yes, I agree. And I think from the beginning, from the beginning, and I concur with Pastor the way he's saying pre-marital and post-marital counseling, I think it works better because you're able to talk things at length so that you don't find yourself in a marriage that you feel especially men that you're being denied your conjugal rights. And that's when now it becomes even hard because moving out of marriage, it's different from just walking away from the relationship. But then they say that if your partner denies you your conjugal rights, then it's also a bad thing. So we've seen on social media something if then they cheat on you, don't blame them. You've seen that happening in church also? You know, sometimes it happens depending on the people involved in a relationship. But there is an issue of human rights. Human rights issues are not biblical. And they're also not African. When people get married, they will learn to get along. We assume so within African culture and we also assume so within the Christian culture. But when you say it's not biblical, you're saying that there are no scriptures and no biblical verses that support sexual issues. There are many, many. The challenge that I was having with the issue of a partner, when we talk about people denying one another conjugal rights, we always think it is women who may deny. Even a man can. A person of that kind is a very selfish person. And that can also lead to a toxic relationship. That's a byproduct of a toxic beginning. That's now the fruit. Most of the time, for somebody just to deny somebody conjugal rights is insane. Somebody that you love. It shows that now you stop loving them. There are many of you who always say that people love one another. That love is blind. Until you get married, then love goes out through the window. Those are abnormal cases that we cannot base our arguments on. Would you like to get a Bible? You have done some verses that... Yes. Did you carry a Bible? Yes, I carried my Bible. Just bring it. Yes, I have a big Bible. I will answer you indirectly. Just bring it. Just bring it. Give it to him. Thank you so much. We want to find out what we are talking about. I will read for you first of all the book called Genesis. Genesis is a book of the beginning. Genesis basically means beginning. Beginning of man, beginning of this creation, beginning of sin, beginning of sacrifice, beginning of offerings, beginning of everything that we see began in Genesis. That's why the book called Genesis is. Let's look at chapter 2. In chapter 2, we see where God created all people, the time of creation. Have you found it? Yes. As you look for it, let me come to you Sarah. When we are talking about sexual abuse in relationships, there is one issue that comes in my mind, rape. And most women or some women, let me just say most based on statistics, don't talk about it. They are quiet and they say that it is embarrassing if I would talk about it. What would you be opinion about that? Exactly. It's very embarrassing. One thing even, some even we have seen recently, a public figure just talking, just speaking out when they are able to, when they gain courage to. But you feel violated. Yes. You didn't be confident enough to speak out that this man did this and this. You try and you confide yourself and the process of healing and dealing with it at a personal level before now you speak out. So should you speak out? Yes. And the most affected are the young ladies. They don't know who to tell. And maybe you find in some instances that these are maybe close family members. Even maybe we have heard of maybe even stepdads. You know, dealing with the young girls. And I think at this point it's just we should encourage and maybe speak to our young girls. You know, for us to advocate and to deal with rape. This is just a monster. You should not rape anyone. It can happen whether regardless of your marital status of the single or married. Yes, even gender. There are other men who are raped and men actually I don't think they talk about it. And we should have the society and have freedom of speaking and not being judged. Because at the end of the day even men get raped but they are afraid because they feel as if I am a man. It's embarrassing for me. Very embarrassing, especially in African setting. And we should tell people if somebody rape you just say it and publicly say that this is the one who raped me and you know deal with rape and we have a secure society for everyone. Okay. Yes, chapter 2 Genesis chapter 2. So you are saying everything has a beginning. Yes, everything has a beginning. So the Bible tells us let's begin from verses 20 I'll just read quickly because of time. So Adam gave names to all cattle to the birds of the air and to every beast of the field there was no found helper compatible to him. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam and he slept. He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman. And he brought her to the man and Adam said this is now the bone of my bones and the flesh of my flesh. She shall be called woman because she was taken out of man. Therefore a man shall live. For that reason, you know I was reading now for that reason the kind of creation that God made a man shall live his father and mother and be joined together to his wife and they shall become one flesh and they were both naked. That is verse 25 and they were both naked. Adam and Eve were both naked man and his wife. And they were not ashamed. That's what the Bible says. It means that in a relationship a marriage relationship people cannot be ashamed of one another. They should be naked to each other. In terms of speaking even if you have a project and you are not sure your partner will support it your role is just to say it because you are you decided that you are not making a decision within marriage. The problem is you have been naked to your partner and you have been very fearful but they don't support you. They will support you one day you need to keep that hope alive and I am not of this idea that when that relationship becomes toxic you run where are you running to? Marriage is permanent. You will be here and look for opportunities to change that relationship it can work why should it not work? Alright quickly I hope you are learning something so what we did we asked our viewers to be able to send us a clip of themselves remember you can be part of this conversation every week all you have to do is send us a mini clip of yourself give us your opinion about this and your video are you right here on this show so let's start with the first clip to go on any round okay so we have Gagura Romero I hope he got her bring it up let's have that I had a partner who was a humanizer and very manipulative about it any attempt to confront him on the issue always resulted to me sounding like a jealous lover and an insecure girlfriend but what gave me the strength to finally walk out of the door was the realization that he was having unprotected sex with these women so not only was I risking a heartbreak I was also risking getting infected with STDs so that was the it for me that was the breaking point I had to leave talking about the toxic relationship I have been an instance of whereby I was dating a person who took my advantage of emotional attachment at that time whereby I was trying to unland things which I had done previously I was in an emotional entanglement if that's appropriate whereby you find that you are not so much well and my spouse used that advantage to give me the toxic relationship but the moment I made that move is the moment that I started to have a recovery of my own and I'm grateful for that that is just a few that you could be able to sample right now because of the interest of time one of our viewers was able to get a sexually transmitted infection disease in the process another one another one is saying that he was in he termed it as emotional entanglement I believe you've heard of it you've heard the clips what are your thoughts about it let me start with you sir that's a good point actually now to move away from that relationship you know that means that you can't trust that person again definitely he or she is going to harm you so I think that's the point you just walk away from those people is also cheating a part of being in a toxic relationship cheating yes because it's there is no reason as to why somebody should cheat on you that means they are not happy with you yeah that's the whole point of it you know I'm not happy with you I'm finding happiness should you forgive them for cheating I don't think you should forgive them never forgive even in a marriage setting you don't forgive a relationship cheating personally I don't end I have an experience are you able to share my uni I can share share share share what happened and was that a toxic relationship that you're in yes at one point when actually it had moved to where you're supposed now to now make things legal and you live together at any point I think you can call it quit because no it was at that point where by somebody engages you and you realize they are not faithful are you ready to walk into that that marriage and be with somebody that you don't you no longer trust so I felt it was the right decision to make for me to just move away from that person because I felt he's toxic and he gonna you know I'll have a toxic marriage at the end first let me give you a thought I think the first one was talking about getting getting sexually transmitted STD first of all you know was it getting STD when you are in a relationship before you got married or is it within the family setup you realize there are some steps when you take in this life and you miss a step towards where you want to go to you will always come back to that step there are some parts of the processes of life that you cannot do without you can't ignore them many times how you begin a relationship will always show us where you end up there are many relationships that were meant to be that are being distracted damaged destroyed by us as people because of the way we handled one another before marriage now there is this one of our viewers talked about emotional entanglement emotional entanglement all those things you realize I think he's reacting to a marriage a relationship outside marriage and he's expecting too much there are people who expect too much from a relationship and they want they always want to be free but maybe they want the lady not to be free and so in that kind of situation they don't want to say where they are going they don't want to say what they are doing they don't want to say where they are working they don't want to say how much they are earning a person in a relationship especially ladies they will always ask how much do you earn where do you work and some people may see that as somebody becoming too inquisitive they can look at it as an emotional entanglement they are entangled with somebody emotionally but should you share such details with your partner Sara, can you share every detail about your life with your partner should you do it does it mean that you love them when you share with them what does it mean that you are actually secretive to your partner you're not being transparent or naked with them I think when you start the relationship you're supposed to to have openness because why do you want to be in my life and you're concealing some things why should you hide anything from me is it being toxic when your partner wants to check your phone you just come from a conversation you look at the phone in the other room later you see more they take your phone snatched it, go through all the messages, is that toxic to some point yes to some extent but when you see somebody taking your phone and behaving like what you've just said is because they are losing trust you're hiding something yes and in a relationship you're supposed to be open because I think everyone who gets into a relationship they always wanted to end into marriage so why would you hide that why are you going and you should have openness because if I realize you're not hiding anything from me I won't be that inquisitive, you won't give me so much work of finding a lot about you that you're hiding would you share your passwords account details with your partner to some extent yes there's what you're supposed to share like phone, passwords and all that I believe it's supposed to I'll give you an example to support what she says where I live in Rongai there is a real case scenario in which somebody built a house in Rongai in Rongai and nobody knows the person dies, nobody knows the family members it has never been claimed it's a small house because that person was building for his own reasons he didn't say it maybe for a side chick or maybe wanted to surprise this person, we don't know but the reality is that he died and left that house I may think you are doing for good but it will harm people around you and it will come back to you let me go back to that issue of STD maybe I didn't answer him well as a man there are many men that have claimed that they have STD later on I realize it's there are some things that behave like STD some sicknesses that behave like STD which are not STD they may be infections but somebody when they are out of love when they don't love you and they get that kind of thing they blow the sailing they hit the sailing so sometimes you need to work with the spouse so that they can go to the hospital in fact if you go to the hospital they will ask you so that they can be able to help you both it may sometimes not be STD let me read more comments comments are plenty plenty easier doctor by the way how can you know that that is STD how can you know how did you know what I was saying is that you can even go to a toilet that is dirty and get an infection many ladies know that it may not be your partner it may even be a visitor but it is not STD what I mean that is not STD it's just an infection it's not happening there are many infections especially these toilets that we do use Isaac Nalyanya and then you wonder you got an infection from a washroom in town then you go home start quarreling with your partner you hit children you start pushing children you say they are like their mother for nothing it is out of anger it's toxic also very toxic let me read a few comments Isaac Nalyanya I think when you realise that your toxic relationship is better to end it and start something new than imprison yourself hoping for the impossible hoping for the impossible you said this Makaia Ninger is saying let me cut this you want to confirm that we are on air we are on air sending your thoughts on Facebook and on Twitter as you continue this conversation sometimes the signs are clear emotional physical abuse criticism lying cheating emotional starvation sometimes there is nothing outstanding because it doesn't feel right it did once but that ended a long time ago wow interesting tweets there I would like us to give you another example you said that someone can be able to pinpoint a toxic person a toxic individual for those who are not yet married the problem is normally with those who are married because of you but now for those who are not yet married the youths they want to get engaged with this partner what would you advocate do they stay together and we are on air they say so we need to take our ex what should they do for them to be able to predetermine how stable or the foundation of their relationship at the initial stage before they get into marriage what will happen what will happen what makes marriage impossible when you have a relationship when you start a relationship when you had some sexual mischief before your wedding any time you see your spouse talking to somebody and they are close you may think they want to do the same so you realize it does not help it is important to engage if you are engaged be engaged date, know one another meet in town go to different places places that do not involve exposure like swimming you go to town there is a lot of chips and chicken in town especially during the days growing up I grew up in Mombasa fish and chips and chicken those were the same thing you need to take time so that you talk you share what you like there are many things to talk about the only thing is people do not get that opportunity to talk we have immense ministry our main focus is to mentor young people it is called Bethel we try to hook up to young people that we realize are getting closer to marriage and we try to talk to them so that they are equipped when they get into marriage I also have a small program that we do on Saturdays it is more of a feeding program many children do not have all parents they come from single parents broken families the main thing that I have been doing is to nurture these children to start to talk to them so that they grow up with the capability that they become responsible when they come to times of relationship at the end of the day you don't advocate for people staying together staying together is one of the worst mistakes it is a bad step it comes to us when they start threatening you that they will kill you most of those threats come because of toxic toxic foundations that were made during the time that people are knowing one another thank you so much time has but thank you so much I was with Pastor he is a teacher he teaches at Africa Nazarene in university a motivational speaker a counselor and a pastor I also teach at Nazarene Bible College make sure that you link up with him I believe you are on Facebook right yes you can find me on my Facebook account Kennedy Occult or you can go to Rungai first church of Nazarene you can also come physically from Rungai church we will get off the lockdown you have to end the conversation there how can we find you you can find us on Facebook at Prime Holiday Adventures thank you so much this has been a power talk I hope that you have been empowered through this talk my name is Ramu may God bless you may God bless the work of your hands I would like to give one final comment on this my own view from people who treat you like you are sometimes that your time doesn't matter that your feelings are worthless that your soul is irreplaceable sometimes you need to give up on people, not because you don't care about them but because they just don't care about you may God bless you may God bless the work of your hands this is power talk