 And you have a quorum. Okay, great. Good afternoon, everybody. Let's start with our vision in charge. So we want to work cooperatively with the town and community to raise awareness and achieve results with a sense of urgency. And I know this is going to change a little bit because we've been working on, well, the town council has been working on the town manager goals for 2023. And Anna, been working with Anna as well, giving feedback we've gone back and forth on email. So I appreciate the emails that were sent by the community to us and ECAC as well for sharing goals that need to be there. I think some of them are still being massaged. I don't know if that's been finalized or not. Maybe Anna can talk to that. But I think we've included things around our pillars, our four pillars, so that's, that's good news. So our pillars, our five pillars, our five pillars have not changed. So it still is the same in terms of metrics we are plateauing here in terms of participation in these meetings. I know we have some education series coming up and if you can send some information out, you create a one slide that you can share with everybody and I would also recommend all the ECAC members to share that as well to your network. We do want to try to increase this participation. We are, like I said, plateauing or we're having one, two people attend these meetings. I would appreciate that. In terms of education series, there is one coming up next meeting, correct? Is that right, Laurie? Is that you or Stella? That's correct. Stella, okay. And then no other changes. Stephanie, you have, I know we were talking about an expense report on a quarterly basis. Just a heads up and I don't know if this is something that you can pull together and share information with us every quarter. Yeah, I can try and I think that might be, yeah, I'll have to, I mean, because this is all sort of having a budget is somewhat new. And I don't know, like, in the last couple of years, that's been not specifically, it's kind of been under the department, not necessarily specifically under me, whereas now I do have my own dedicated budget under sustainability. So I'm not, we'll have to discuss this more. I think we can do this offline. Okay. Sounds good. And then if anybody else has any action items or metrics that we want to track here, please let me know and I can add it. In terms of open actions, this is complete. I'm assuming everybody get feedback to Stephanie and Don. I can't see. We got some, I wouldn't say everybody got some. Okay. And, Don, you're going to have an updated version at the next meeting. Is that right. Don are you on. Yeah, I will. Okay. Okay. Thank you. And then the only action we have pending is to watch the specialized stretch code video for our next meeting. I thought that was for this meeting. Well, we just have to watch it for our next meeting. Okay. Anything else for open actions. We did meet with the building commissioner to discuss this and everyone's read at that I guess the two one meeting we can, I can report back. Okay, sounds good Jesse. Thank you. Okay. I'm not going to switch the agenda around so let's open it up open it up to the public for any comments. Is anyone from the public who would like to speak please electronically raise your hand. Okay, I'm not seeing any hands raised. Okay. All right, we'll move on to the next part of the agenda then, and we have our guest Adrian here today and she's going to share information on the solar survey so Adrian, you want to take over. Thank you. I'm just going to share my screen quick I put together just a couple of slides to move us through what helped me stand track and make sure we're all looking at the same thing. So, we sent you all of the revised survey we sent you the first survey back in December the first iteration. Great feedback so it was really helpful and I appreciate everyone's attentiveness. When we sent you the survey back in December we really just provided the survey the questions themselves. And I wanted to take a moment to step back and just put it in kind of in context. Stephanie and I have been working closely to develop a really robust outreach strategy. The process of informed to consult involved and ultimately collaborate with the community should look familiar from the car. So the survey is one component under the consult category, but the survey will be hosted online from a project website and so that project website will include a lot more information about why we're doing this who's doing it. It's about the solar bylaw group. And then about, you know, how this may be used moving forward by town. We're also going to link to the town website. We'll have email blast to the community to let them know about the survey, let them know about the project we're working with the town to, you know, put this on social their social media and traditional media, you know, the town reminder. We're going to be doing some targeted why you're posting about the survey and about the workshops, and we'll have an informational public meeting. And so all of that under the inform column will be going on prior to in during the survey window, and then also afterwards. We are going to be using engage Amherst forum to ask additional questions and drive additional public participation. And then obviously with the survey itself. And we'll be hosting two interactive workshops where members of the public can drop in and participate. They're being specifically designed to be you drop in session so people can come with the time they have. And they're not going to be, you know, an intimidating stand up in front of everyone and voice what you think but a series of interactive activities, hosted on evenings and weekends to again hopefully drive robust public participation. And then all of the information gathered throughout this process will be shared back to you back to the town, it will be hosted on the town website. And hopefully it'll it'll serve as a jumping off point for continued public participation surrounding solar and other climate initiatives in town. So I wanted to, to make sure we all were thinking about this survey because we got a lot of really great feedback and a lot of it had to do with more information. And we are incorporating more information, but some of it's on other avenues than the survey itself. So the status right now obviously this week with you today and then on Friday with the solar bylaw working group will be discussing the revised questions. Moving forward we're going to finalize the question. We are going to translate them into Spanish and Cantonese, and then we'll be populating and testing out the actual survey interface instead of just questions in a word document. So the goal of opening the survey to the public in February. So any questions here on the kind of the process and timeline before we get into the questions themselves hearing none. So we got feedback like I said from from you guys and solar bylaw group and the department heads. We were able to implement, I think, quite a bit of feedback from a high level feedback we put into the survey itself included a much more robust introduction. More context around specific questions why we were asking that or what we were trying to drive at with each question. And we also included a number of ways of images to help people contextualize, you know, ground mount and other types of solar. And then we also included some demographic questions. Other feedback that we receive that will be going on the project website is, again, a lot more of the overall ecosystem. So, linking to the climate road map linking to the Amherst cart, pointing people to mass save. And that will be on the project website itself, where they will launch the survey. And then information on the upcoming workshops that'll be heavily publicized. And some additional information on how we're going to use the survey results. We also received several requests for open ended questions, you know, tell us more or, you know, what do you think type of question. And after really thinking about that we think the best place for those questions and on the engage Amherst forum. We can write out their answers post them and other users can, you know, like them can respond. And that will allow for more conversation. As when people answer the survey, we feel really strongly that every answer should have a use. And I just worry that, you know, we're trying to get a drive a lot of public participation. We get a lot of open ended ended answers, it's challenging to use that data meaningfully. And I think that on engage Amherst, and then also in our workshops, we'll be able to use that type of information in a much more meaningful and proactive manner. So if you were hoping to see a question on the survey that was more just open text box answer and you did it. It's going to be on that engage Amherst forum. So those, those are kind of the largest changes, obviously there were also some text changes, some language clarifications. This is kind of the major, the major shifts that occurred. If you have any questions or comments on on the revision so far and what else you'd like to see. Hey, are you going to get into detail around work the workshop would entail. What does that cover at a high level. The workshop is going to include more questions on community values people being able to voice in different ways where they would like to see solar where they wouldn't like to see solar. What types of community or town led solar efforts they would like to see. Stephanie I've been working to come up with activities on that that are going to be meaningful provide meaningful results but also will allow for participation of non English speakers and other members so it'll probably be a series of you tables or booths with different voting mechanisms and comment mechanisms, as well as hopefully some online interaction that we can see in real time. Got it. Yeah I asked because you mentioned that you plan on having two workshops. Right. Yes, I was wondering if it makes sense to have it on either side of the survey that it's more educational people know what it's about because this is not knowing anything about solar and then you're answering the survey. With that help by having it in between a set in the survey sandwich between two workshops. Yep, so I think our plan right now is to have, we're going to have an informational meeting and that'll be more of a you know we'll give a presentation. It's open to everyone. And then the survey will become live after that. We're looking to front load the workshops in the survey window so hopefully people have come to the presentation and or workshop and then get you know those reminders to fill out the survey. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. This looks great. I've read it over and I think the presentation and some of the background information and the questions have all improved quite nicely. Since the last version that I saw back in December so good this. I'm pretty happy with this. I have little picky things in the document that I'll forward along to you. So basically small wording suggestions. But overall it looks fine to me, the, I guess, one question I have on the demographics that'll be an optional section I presume people don't have to answer that. So surveys like this and community surveys this must be kind of a common problem how do you know if you're getting good representation across the town from the different demographic groups that you're hoping to reach out to. Yes, that is certainly a challenge I mean hopefully people will fill out the demographics so we'll see. We'll see some of that. We are working with Amherst DEI coordinators and we're working with other groups in town to specifically reach out to audiences that participate less often. We are planning additional outreach to those groups and like I said the the workshops are going to be, you know, we're planning right now an evening one and a weekend one so that people don't necessarily need to arrange childcare, you know, or take time off work. They can bring their kids there'll be some some activities for the kids. So we're trying to make it very easy for people to participate but unfortunately we don't have a way to ensure. Yes, I know I appreciate those sort of proactive efforts that you're going to be making and I think those are important and sound like they're well thought out. Is there a mechanism that you have sort of after the fact to sort of validate that the survey did in fact reach the goals for for representative sampling of the town population. But unfortunately we don't. We are, you know, we did make the choice to make the survey anonymous and not ask people for their name or their address or anything, because we thought that might be a hurdle for some people to answer but it does limit our kind of data analytics on the back end of who answered. Yeah, okay. Okay, thank you. No. Laura. Great. Thanks. Yeah, agree with agree with a lot of the points that Steve made I think the survey looks great. I think I really appreciate the additional information at the top of the survey related to the goals of the climate goals of the town. One additional thing you could potentially add to the demographics would just be like what district the person is in in Amherst. The only question I had is about the timeline. You said that you were going to close the survey in mid or late February into February. Yeah, our hopes have the survey open for about a month. Okay. And do you have a sense of how long it'll take to like process the data. We are giving ourselves about another month. It takes it always takes a little bit longer than one hopes to really get meaning from the data. All of this information the survey results themselves as well as our analysis of them. We're all going to be compiled and reported back. And right now we have a target deadline of the full report at the end of April. Okay, but as other pieces become available and we're ready to share them, we would like to provide information to you in a timely manner as we can. Yeah, I just asked because I know, I believe the requirement of the working group right is to get a bylaw done by the end of May, is that correct. That is correct. Yeah. Okay, so I just want to make sure that we're being clear on that timeline because I would I don't want to have happen is folks feel like they spent time coming to these. They're coming to the workshop and then that didn't get integrated into any of the thinking regarding the bylaw and some of this is a little bit different, but we should also be communicating that clearly as well. Yes, yep, it's all going to be done in in April provided as a final final document final results in April so the solar bylaw group has time. And then Stephanie. So I just heard two different timeline things so I wanted to ask about timeline again does the survey open mid February or close mid February. The survey is going to open in early February and our, so our hopes. Yeah, open the survey in February have our presentation and our workshops in early and mid February and then have a few more weeks for people to answer the survey after we've had those in person. Okay, thank you. Stephanie. Can you hear me if I go basso. Yeah. Can you hear me. I can hear you. I can't hear Vasu. I think you froze up there for a moment. Can you hear me now. Yes. Okay, sorry about that. So I just wanted to say that the, the deadline for the solar bylaw working group while it stated is not inflexible so if the solar bylaw working group feels that they need more time. They can request that from the town manager and town council so I mean there is, you know, there's certainly a goal but it's not hard and fast so that if they need more time they are allowed more time. They're not being precedented. So I just wanted to make sure people were aware. Dwayne would it be it would that be a concern in extending the timeline if we get this data analytics completed in April. I mean that's, that's, that would be in time, you know, we're going to be putting together the solar bylaw unit we have we stick with that deadline. You know the intent is really to have an iterative process so we, a lot of it is just putting the language and outline and skeleton together but then we going through another iteration of fine tuning and tuning the the bylaw with input from from from the survey work and meeting work would be could be done later in the process. But as Stephanie suggests, you know, to the extent that there's a lot to consider. Then, you know extending the deadline is is seems doable. Okay. Thanks. Is there any other. Any other questions. I have one if thinking about deadlines and when these deliverables are going to get to the solar bylaw working group to be using them. What's the planned timeline for delivering the solar assessment that your firm is doing. We're working on the solar assessment we have a kind of a smaller working group that's been making decisions about that. And again, the final, you know the final version of that is, we're aiming to have everything do done to the town by the end of April. But I do believe there'll be an iteration of that done sooner for review. You know, our GIS specialist has been working diligently on it. It looks like there are no other questions agent. Okay, well I really appreciate your time and I appreciate the feedback we received I think it really improved the survey. I look forward to continuing to work with you all to get some hopefully great answers, a lot of answers. It's always our goal. And I just ask you and Adrian thank you thank you for this and look forward to a similar conversation with the bylaw group. I guess maybe this is more of a question for Stephanie but what is the to get comments and updates or edits as Steve suggests I have a few, not worth taking up time now. Back to, to you I presume Stephanie what would what's your preference in terms of just each of us, sending those in separately to you. Yeah I think just send them to me and then I'll, I try to compile them and get them to Adrian if they're lengthier I will send them individually but if it's just a few comments and you can both get them to me sooner than later I can send them together to her. So I would say, you know, if you have comments, certainly by the end of this week would be helpful. Well, thank you. Thanks Adrian. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, let's move on to voting on the minutes from the last meeting. Any questions or comments on the minutes. I move we accept them as they are. Oh, looks like Jesse has a. We accept them as they are. Second. Thank you. Okay, and voting by voice vote in no particular order. Yes. Goldner. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Allison. Yes. D. Yes. Selman. Yes. Rose. Yes. Yes. Well, I'm sorry, I have to move on to the next speaker. Dr. Abstain, please. Okay. Minutes are approved. Great. Great. Let's continue talking about solar and over to you, Dwayne. Great. Thanks, Sue. Thanks all. I think. Stephanie did email out what I've. What I've progressed to at this point. I'm not sure if I, we can sort of decide on what the name of this thing is, because it needs to be very carefully understood to be a separate exercise than the solar assessment as it's being referred to with regard to just geographically what where solar might go and conditions and technical sort of potential for solar around Massachusetts. This is really a different exercise to help ourselves, and for ourselves, ultimately, I'm not, I'm not suggesting we're ready to do that today, but ultimately to make some recommendations from ecac, but for others constituents to use this tool to be able to better understand, and the scale of solar development that might be appropriate for Amherst to host in ways that are aligned with our goals, the ecac, the ecac in the town goals for climate reduction as well as the Commonwealth's. So it really is a different exercise and should be carefully described in that way. What I progressed so far for today. I'll mention what I have done then we can go over that but I'll also stress what I have not done yet. What I've done is provided a draft introductory sheet for this tool to describe sort of its purpose. I also included there, an updated inventory and analysis of how much solar we currently have in Amherst, and then sort of describe the methods, the three methods that we've come up with to perform this site this hosting analysis or assessment. So, welcome any comments on that I think I will go through some interesting findings. And is it helpful for me to share my screen I guess at this point. What I thought to be certainly certainly I'd appreciate any thoughts or comments on that on on text here. But what I thought I would do is, is for ourselves. Introduce what I what I what I did here in terms of the inventory or what we currently have installed in Amherst solar installations in Amherst and some some takeaways from that. Again, this is for the for townwide, but without the university and the colleges. And over the course of the three solar programs in Massachusetts I suspect there was a few kilowatts installed even before them but we'll forget about those because they're not real good records on that. And what we have here is sort of where we stand currently from using the databases that do we are has on approved projects in SREC one SREC two and the smart program, and I decided to sort of categorize them by commercial projects. These include the these include commercial buildings retail and so forth residential, which includes and the different programs databases don't necessarily parse these out exactly the same. But residential includes certainly all the single family residential solar projects. And also the residential projects that serve how do we are categorizes them for I think four or more dwelling units in total that that's a small minority of the total residential. I also divided out the solar projects that are not initially owned but controlled and cited by the town. And then what's categorized as agriculture. A couple takeaways from here is that there's 860 was 870 projects installed in Massachusetts. Most of those are residential. And that amounts to about seven and a half megawatts out of the total that we have installed about 28 megawatts. So residential is is particularly in the SREC programs less so in the smart program but the the residential projects are important contributions to our solar mix. But maybe the key takeaway is that of the 28 mega or a key takeaway is that of the 28 megawatts that we have installed 20 megawatts 70% is for projects. The four large ground mounted projects we have in in Amherst, the two town projects. Recognizing that this includes the Hickory Ridge project which is not built yet but anticipated and approved for the for the for the program and seems to be going going forward. As well as the two large two large total of 10 megawatts large ground mounted projects in North Amherst. And so for projects 70% of our installation. So the ground mounted ones. And and relatively little impact on agriculture at this point. There's some key key takeaways there I will say the colleges universities at another 12 megawatts or so 13 megawatts. But again, we're sort of removing those because we're also in this assessment not including their load, the load of the university in the colleges, the electric electricity load, nor recognizing that similar to the town. The institutions have their own somewhat independent clean clean energy and climate plan and energy transition underway. So that's that what I would I will state what I have not done yet. And what we what we, we, we collectively are tasked with. What I have not done yet is really updated what we saw last time this sheet, which I think I got some feedback on, which I have not updated yet but I will do so. I think this remains generally intact. But but what I'm what I would what I'd like to get to through some conversation with with ecac is sort of each, you know, to get to what while this tool is to be used and able to be used by constituents and and and and everybody. What we would like to put forward I believe is ecac is our best. Best set of assumptions inputs and assumptions and our own recommendations on on the scale or the range I should say of solar that we should strive to host in Amherst based on our sort of a perspective of what is our fair share, if you will, of of solar as a as a member of the of the as a participant in the Commonwealth of our own goals and commitments as well as being a part of the Commonwealth. You do recall these, these, these are the, the, the inputs that we sort of I put out there as as base cases as as initial for discussion. And then do keep in mind we do have these in this graphical result, which comes from that that previous set of assessment looking at the three methods. And I'm not suggesting at all that this is the end the end result, because we want to collectively agree on inputs and assumptions. And then you and then look at what this graphic looks like, and then make some, if we want ecac recommendations on sort of a low and high or range of solar hosting that we should as a town. Stride for and then look at and then separate as a separate exercise, you know, how does that, how does that merge with the technical assessment that that is ongoing, and will be available in a few months as well. So let me just get a question. Yeah, so let me pause there and see what people have to say. Yep. First of all, as always, I love it. Love spreadsheets. I think, even at this juncture, it would be super helpful to overlay this information on the existing capacity information and just add a fourth bar that maybe goes that shows the range. So then just graphically get a gut sense of where we stand. I think that one move would would make this this piece of work very just sort of got useful for me. You're saying in this graphic, Jesse that's up here now. Well, I actually think in the first one. If you go to this guy, if, if we had like a, you know, low and high end I don't know if you can see my annotation just show, well, I see, you know, put contextual these two things want to be contextualized together, I would think. Yeah, the other way I was thinking of doing it would be on this graph to have some sort of bar here saying, you know, for it for it 28. We'd have a line here saying, you know, I'm not sure if you can see my cursor, and I can't draw a line like you can, Jesse. Yeah, there you go. I think that would help to I my senses that intuitively a vertical, that vertical bar graph. For more humans, they kind of, it's like, this building is taller than this building I think it's a more intuitive way to see data. Put it on both. Yeah, I could put it on both ears that these, these to do that comparison I'd have to stack, maybe a different graph but have these stacked up on top of each other to get the full height to 28 megawatts. Something to put both categories, my Ross, however you see fit. Otherwise, okay. All right, Laura. Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Dwayne as always. Um, something that's coming to mind to me as I look at this is and thinking about what ecacs recommendation should be. I'm coming back to like, I feel like we should be making a recommendation that allows us to meet the climate goals that the town is set like that feels to be in line with our charge. And we recommend less than that seems to be inappropriate, inappropriate to me and so just looking back to the carp right the carp says for Amherst to achieve its climate goals nearly all energy consumed locally will need to become come from ecologically sustainable and renewable sources. I, while I recognize sort of some of the nuances with that, like, I think that we should be putting forward our recommendations that meet that goal so I don't know if that's the 92 there. Or at a minimum. And then I think there's this question of we've talked about in the past whether we should do more because we have more land or not. I mean I think that's a reasonable discussion to have but at a minimum we should not be suggesting a number that's less than what will allow us as a town of Amherst to meet our climate the climate goals that the town has set. I appreciate that. And I think that's a good thing for us to think about. I guess where where the rubber heat hits the road I guess and making that in, and considering that is that, you know, we, it's pretty clear and a good thing that we don't. I think that growth is going to is expecting to receive a lot of its renewable energy from generation that's not actually located in on the land of Massachusetts. There's a dominant amount from offshore wind which great thing it doesn't take up any. Backyard at all. And then large scale hydro is still expected and that's in somebody else's backyard but still an attractive resource. And so it but I like, you know that that sort of lends itself to this method one which is like okay how much electricity do are we expecting to consume in Massachusetts by 2050. You know in the in the subject in the suggestion here it's like okay we're going to pretty much hold steady on our energy use, we're going to grow some but energy efficiency will will will help reduce load growth. But at the same time we're going to transition, all of our transportation and heating to electricity so that's going to double or more are our electricity use. So that's what it gets us to that point but then we make you know this assumption right here is basically okay. How much of this electricity that we need. Are we going to assume or or suggest should come from solar. Not just solar anywhere but solar in in in located in Amherst. And I think the, I have to check but I think these numbers are somewhat aligned with, you know, the person release the 25%, maybe 30%, I don't have that number on on top of me but is, you know, roughly aligned with you know how much. The percentage of the total renewable energy generation is expected to come from solar. As opposed to the other resources. So that's, I like that approach are but it comes down to sort of that question that assumption I guess about how much of our renewable of our energy which needs to be all renewable comes from solar in Amherst. That's a good point to me and then I think that's where these other methods come up right like, if we're going to, if we're, if we're going to say, we can't have our cake and eat it to we can't say that we're going to benefit from all of the hydro and wind that's coming from other locations but then not do our fair share of land based solar. So I do think that that lends itself to saying, you know, it's some come it's some, some range between sort of meeting our needs with a higher amount of solar and doing our share of the land based solar. Because we have the land and others don't. Yes, Stephanie and Steve. Thanks fessu. So do we have two questions. The first is, do you think this will be complete by the time we do the outreach to the community for the community survey. Well, it's somewhat. Yeah, yeah. Well, if that's if that's really helpful, then we can work towards that. I guess I'm thinking about the workshop specifically actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we're something along these lines could be presented and the tool could actually be put online as well as part of the online resources. I guess I would say that. I mean the tool is generally ready I think there's some formatting and stuff I like to do and so forth but and also to double check some of the citations and that I got the numbers right from the citations. But I guess what's what is is more time consuming and needs to happen is more for this body to come to consensus on the assumptions and this the inputs that we want to use for these three methods as our best offering. Going through this analysis and then and then coming up with those those recommendations that fall from that. That was the first question. Yeah, the second, the second follow up question. Well, it's maybe more of a statement than a question is I'm thinking about the workshops and I'm thinking about the accessibility of information. And this is very incredibly academic which is fine for this group, but certainly I think we need to have this level of analysis. I think though that if we could have a summary for the workshops that really just sort of takes everything and makes it adjustable and very simple language for people. So they don't need to be looking at all the charts but even or maybe just one final graphic that really kind of lays it out maybe that like one of those two graphics with just a quick little summary at the end, so that people can really everybody can sort of be more able to understand what it is we came out with. I think that will be really helpful. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think that's a important outcome as well. Let me just, sorry before we go on from that just in terms of the timetable that remind me what Adrian said about the workshop schedules. So I think the workshops are targeted for February. I'm thinking, I mean I don't know if we're ready to do it today and I will admit I'm not really ready to lead lead a discussion on these inputs and assumptions and and work together as in a in a in this in this in one of these to, you know, I think go number by number, or at least the main ones to come to some group decision on that. Maybe it's something you know I'd be happy to get out of order if the agenda permits to do it again next time with with folks having more time to look at these before before the meeting, the next meeting, and then try to hone down on that and come to some some conclusion. Maybe the asked when would just be to review this information, you're going to see everybody raising their hand so let me hold that thought. Let me go to Steve first and then, Andre. I guess I wanted to make one thing. Make sure I have an understanding is clear. All of this analysis here is assuming that hydro and offshore wind are a large fraction as dictated by the roadmap, and we are just taking what's in the roadmap. We're just looking at the solar share and putting that mapping that as in the context of Amherst responsibility. So we're not trying to do all of our electricity and Amherst from solar and Amherst that's right. And, and, and, at least in the, what is it in method to the solar capacity to meet the share of the statewide solar expected capacity that's in the baseline, so that road road road ahead, which assumes decent chunks and of the offshore wind and the, and the large scale hydro there was another scenario or number of others roads to get to this end point where was it large scale hydro didn't come through or offshore wind was was much less than expected, and the amount of solar substantially increased to cover the difference. And that would obviously the town would have to sort of be sensitive to, you know, to diverting from from their own road in that case as well. I just, good. I thank you I wanted to make sure that people that might be listening in didn't get the impression that we are advocating that Amherst in the future have enough solar to create all of the electricity that we use. We're just looking at the share of solar that's dictated by the Massachusetts plan and mapping that to our town based on different approaches like population or land area. What I would, I guess I'd like to do is, as you said, have another go at this where we agree sort of box by box on the different inputs. And then I think we should write up a report, a short summary that explains the different methods and documents where in these different reports we're getting these different numbers. And that report we agree on come to agreement on the language of it and the recommendations, and then that gets sent to our superiors, a town manager, and presumably would be then relayed to other portions of the town. And then perhaps at the same time we could also write a condensed version of it that would be appropriate for public consumption, public presentation at the sessions in February. So we, we don't have a lot of time to do that this would sort of mean we would need to at our next meeting in two weeks, come to an agreement on these numbers, and then someone would have to write up a report. And then we would then that would that would put us, then we'd have it presumably have to agree to that report that would put us in the middle of February, if it if it's two meetings from now so we little worried about the timeline there. Yeah, Steve I think we have some time now so we should be talking about. Okay, great suggestion. Let me let me just ask Stephanie on that. I mean, in order to put something in front of the town. In front of this work, the, the community forums that are going to go forward with would we need to have something, the report written ahead of that to be approved by the town manager. Or, or could we, because I think the report writing is a little bit, it will be time consuming. Or could we put together a condensed version I saw Jesse hold up one finger like one slide to present, present these out these this analysis and outcomes to the community. You know, maybe with the managers town managers blessing, but not necessarily approval of a full scale report. So I think what you. Yeah, I mean you don't need a full scale report obviously. And I think what you could do is have a summary of kind of the, all the decided upon. You all as a committee decide upon what you are looking at as the sort of recommendations. You could summarize those, and maybe get have the town manager review those. And then that can be, you know, the report can come later but if you sort of have agreement on like, those are your recommendations. And again, I do want to say that you're a committee, and these are your recommendations. So I don't think you're asking the town manager to look at this and say, yes, okay, that's right. I mean, I don't think he can and I think it's just, these are your recommendations as a committee. So I don't know that it has to get necessarily approved at that level at this point when you're just talking about what you all are recommending. So that people can consider your recommendations as they're sort of mulling over what they, you know, understand to be what the town should be striving for or needing to do. I have two thoughts to complicate this already really complicated matter. The solar bylaw. My understanding is about solar sighting. That's all. We just set our goals for how much solar should be. How much, how many, how much of the green attributes of solar should be owned by hammers. And, and, yeah, and a small fraction of what is currently installed is quote unquote owned by Amherst constituents within Amherst, yeah, or anyone in exactly. I just want to remind and and somehow reinforce. This is only about sighting. And we have a very important decision to make as the, you know, in terms of what recommendation we will make about how much solar we should own. And, meaning owning the green attributes as well the Rex. And other Rex can own wind Rex too. But it's, it's thorny. There's not a clear way that that I can think of that makes sense. Certainly financially. And yet I don't want to lose sight of that really critical question that I know is also a really important for our CCA to be clear on what do we count. What can we take credit for. So, for me, this sighting decision is about our, you know, whatever is our fair share of land of, you know, of the physical, not just land, but the physical possibilities for sighting solar enough. And then the other thing that keeps coming up for me is that we aren't doing this in a vacuum. You know, others have made the point that Amherst can't, you know, be this microcosm and balance everything out within our borders. And once we actually get our electric aggregation going, it makes no sense anymore to think of just Amherst, we should be thinking about Pelham, Amherst, and Northampton, which will take some coming together in terms of the other municipalities and our goals and capacity. So, I don't know at what point we should start thinking about that, but it'd be better to think about it sooner than later, and at least have a mention of this expanding our model for, of course, we have to have a bylaw at the municipal level, but a solar goal could be at the, at least, you know, three towns initially level, and hopefully our aggregation will grow and include more municipalities so I'm going to push that out there. Yeah, thanks Andrew. Laura. Thanks. I've already spoken. Well, I'll just go anyway. So, two things. One is doing, I'd be happy to work with you to try to think through how we can communicate this in ways that may be more accessible like one of the things I just calculation I just did quickly was, you know, we have 600 and 6600 residential part parcels and the, and Amherst so that means we roughly have 12.6% of residential solar on which and like this average in the US is 8% and you know we could look and see what the average in in Massachusetts just to like it gives people a sense of where we are on the scale of some of these things. Andra I do agree with you that this should don't that this should be about citing. So that makes me wonder why we like, I guess I'm just trying to think if we can, if we could possibly narrow the discussion at all already like do folks think we should do method three or method like I'm just trying to think and maybe the suit I'll turn it back to you. Like what is a logical way to like maybe ranked choice vote these methods, like my, my suggestion would be, we don't go below what we need. I think we have to find a base number for which we can't go below because it won't allow us to meet our goals, and then we need to set the high number based on either method two or three. So, I just wanted to see if we can potentially move the conversation forward a little bit in some way. Yeah, and let me just. I guess feedback on that I don't think the intent was to decide that one method was the preferred method to another, or that one one method that we should choose one method or even rank them necessarily. It was really to allow for coming at the same question from different perspectives and different methods, and seeing how if the results come out with similar or overlapping ranges of solar to host. Then, that's even, you know, more persuade persuasiveness that, you know, setting a high and a low and a high capacity to host an Amherst makes makes make sense and could could read some sort of consensus, not only amongst us but but but but others. And I do like your point with regard to, you know, at a minimum we should make sure that we meet our goals. But again, you know, you know, it, it somewhat this question of, you know, how much, how much, you know, solar is not the only thing out there. It's the component how much how much solar should contribute to that to our electricity needs is is sort of needs to be assumed I guess at this point. Yeah, let's come back to that. I mean, isn't that already built in though to method two and three. Because those include those are shares of solar capacity. I mean built into it's it's baked into all three methods really but like the share of solar capacity to meet statewide projections is taking into account that it's statewide is also including hydro wind. Exactly. Yeah, good point in this method to specifically, it looks at okay the Commonwealth as a whole in its base case assumes that 25 to 35 gigawatts of solar is going to be needed to meet our mix and we just take a share of that, based on either population or land or some some something in between. Whereas the first method is really more about meeting our own needs for our own electricity, but making an assumption that a certain percentage of that comes from not only solar but solar located in Amherst. So they do, they do tie together. Yeah, so that's one of the things one of the points I wanted to make is that all of these I don't I wouldn't want to see us trying to choose between these. I think what we should be doing is simply trying to summarize each of them and, you know, simplest possible way and present the numbers and then come up with a record maybe perhaps a recommendation. So for example if we did a little more than twice what we currently have, we would be within the range of all of these. And then at a minimum, you know ecac would ask that we provide at least, you know, the 63 or 60 some odd, you know something that falls within the bottom of all of these methods. So the number three would be the highest minimum. And I think the numbers that you're using, you know, if you're asking Dwayne for us to discuss whether the numbers you're using are reasonable. I don't particularly feel need to discuss that I think as long as you tells what they are they're all fine. And I think the assumptions are all reasonable I think this is a very nicely done analysis, I have one question about one of them. So the three solar capacity to meet share of statewide land based solar and I would make one change the titles here. Going back to method one for a moment solar capacity to meet Amherst electric needs the title makes it sound like this is the total. We're going to go 100% solar, and it will meet Amherst needs. I think to meet a fair share of Amherst electric needs would be a better way to phrase that and the same thing with method to solar capacity to meet a fair share. So that's what we're discussing here what is our fair share. And with method three solar capacity to meet a fair share statewide statewide land based solar. Now for that one. I don't quite understand this because okay so you're giving in the fine 26 there. It's off the bottom of the screen but I'm looking at in the Excel spreadsheet so the Commonwealth projected ground mounted solar land use. Between 35,000 100,000 we're 0.289% of the land area, and then you make some other assumptions about how, how efficient the solar is. And I would have thought that would be enough to come up with the solar capacity but I don't understand what this line 29 is percent of solar capacity that is assumed to be ground mounted I thought all of this was ground mounted. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you good point it's hard to explain especially to the general masses I would I would certainly say but the, the, the issue here is I wanted these three methods to compare apples to apples. And this method three really was an orange instead, at least starting from the state state information. They're assuming that of all the soul, just a portion of this of the of the probably of the 25 to 35 gigawatts of solar that they expect that the portion of that. That that I don't think they express that in megawatts, but the portion of that that's ground mounted would take up 35 well take up 931 to 158 or something. In the notes there, acres of land in Massachusetts, but that's not all solar that's just the land land land ground mounted solar. In order to say okay, well that's, you know if we're going to take a fair share of the group of that of our land for ground mounted that the total solar that we're wanting to get in Amherst would need to recognize that we're also going to get solar from non ground mounted. Right. Okay, so 60% and 40% are just thrown in there so people realize we're not planning on doing all ground mounted. Yeah, it's not probably it's probably not used in the number at the bottom right so solar capacity. It is, it is, it is, it's multiplied or divided I'm not sure I have to think that through. Maybe we should probably talk about this offline and because I'm not sure I understand that calculation. Yeah, the others I think are pretty straightforward but that one I don't quite get. I'm also happy I wanted to throw my hat in there as well. It might actually do me some good to try to summarize this that I make sure I understand it so if you want some help writing a, you know, a simple executive summary or something like that for folks to need. And do note this I attempted that a little bit here. Maybe more but I guess I didn't scroll down here I do give explanations of the three methods. There it is. Yeah. Yeah. I'm also including the high and low what what the outcome was free. No, they're there. This was really just about the methods in this sheet. I'm not sure about in the notes or somewhere. I think to sort of make this public will want to have these assumptions and then why do a little bit in these notes but a little bit more to say okay to explain. The the site citing of those inputs. Some of them are inputs meaning they come from particularly the 25th the state 2050 decarbonization roadmap or some of the other detail documents where I just I think it's important to cite those but it's not really an assumption that we're pulling those notes where and suggest and recommending that the ones that we are sort of suggesting on our own that are not coming from report I think we want to have some rationale for that for those assumptions. I think that it's important to have this as a sort of appendix somewhere but if you want a one pager to give out to the public. You want to put your conclusions in that little paragraph, you know, and even maybe maybe even make it up front. I don't think we want to or have would have reasonable space to give a lot of citations and let's hold that talk. Yeah, we're agreeing. We're agreeing on that. Okay, good. Right. We have three more people who have comments so don Jesse and then Steve. Yeah. Thanks to me and I mean I'm finding this really really helpful. One of the things I'm, I'm thinking those, especially with request with respect to method one, unless I'm missing something here is there is there a way that we can transpose some of the percentages in method three. In method one, like what percentage of Amherst solar capacity is assumed to be ground mounted, because I think that would dovetail into the citing issues, and the bylaw issues that you're talking about. We're dealing if we take method one and say this is what we need, you know, to meet our electrical needs. Somehow or other I think for the general public there has to be some understanding, given Amherst, what percentage of that would be ground mounted solar. I don't know how you do that, but that's, you know, to me that would be enlightenment. Yeah, I think and I sort of gave a, I wanted to give a sense on that that you know 70% currently is coming from ground mounted even though it's in four projects. But, but to your point, Don at least the way I'm looking at it is that this is is kind of neutral or blind to that. And that this is where I'm not sure about ultimately but at some point this analysis and the solar technical assessment intersect each other. So when we get the solar technical assessment, and the assessment shows and this is just completely made up that you know we have you know reasonable reasonable citing opportunities for building mounted solar, meaning residential, and maybe even parking lots and so forth. That's limited to maybe an additional 10 megawatts and I'm just making that number up. Then it gives us some sense okay. Or maybe it's 20 or 30 who knows but then, and you know to the extent that that's at least technically feasible. That there's some suggestion that then okay so we should, we should try to make as much use of that as possible. But to the extent that there's a gap, which I suspect there will be with regard to what we think our fair share is. Then, then, then we'd have to look at the ground, you know the ground mounted a very various forms of ground mounted solar. And you know it also comes into issues of, you know how much more costly is it to put on roofs and so forth and decisions that have to be made or at least. We're not making decisions about a specific projects but just collectively thoughts in terms of what's the best path forward for Amherst. Right. All right, I'd be interested in any other people's thoughts on that for sure. Thank you, Steve and Andre for closing comments and then we'll wrap it up. Yeah, I think I'm just thinking about this is like this, all this information is kind of going to two places. One place is kind of feeding back into the bylaw working group and the consultants and some of this more with Stephanie think called academic. The other, and that's refining ideas. The other places is, is at some point I think we try to give the general public a rough order of magnitude. The methodology seems almost irrelevant to me and the info graph and because it's good, it's good work and, and we can, we can put a link on an info graphic that if anyone wants to dig in and challenge us. Here's here we were showing our work but really like some kind of info graphic. Maybe it's a bar chart maybe it's a map of Amherst where we graphically show what how much we have and how much we need. And it's very simple, and it's a gut check and it's an order of magnitude doesn't say we're putting it all on roofs doesn't say we're putting it on cars or alpacas or forests. It's this is how much and it's a freaking ton. And let those that let that information ripple out let's start that conversation going. Let's reach out to the people we think are going to hate that the most, and have a productive conversation with them. How much we have how much we need. Yeah, I'm all set I'll pass my questions were addressed. I'm just just to respond to Jesse which I thought were good points I think I got a gist of that info graphic but we'll work on that but, but I do want to stress that this is not an exercise of precision at all. It's an exercise of scaling and just appreciating the scale. And not only is it, there's too many assumptions for precision, but also we're talking about 2050. And you know who knows what the world will look like in 2040. In terms of solar progress and other technologies and so forth but this is this is meant to be a sort of scaling exercise more so than precision. I could add that I was going to make that point to this. All of this is predicated on what the Massachusetts plan is, we were just kind of translating that down into the township of Amherst, and that state plan may change. So, and that if it does, then the Amherst plan can change so this will not get carved in stone and be the absolute target we must do by 2050. It'll be a target that will become a moving target and might change in the future. We might want to make a recommendation on one hand for 2030 and 2050, instead of just making a recommendation for 2050. Am I, am I next. Yeah, sorry, I was going to, yeah, waiting for Visu but go ahead, I'll call on you. Visu turned into a Martian again. Along the lines of what Laura was suggesting. I think we might be able to get rid of population as a criteria. I'm a little bit dramatic, because we have so many students. We're not including the landmass or the use of the university and colleges. So why would we include all the students in population. Population isn't about citing. So, you know, it's a, it's a, I want to consider that together. When does the value go up if the population percent goes up is that what your calculation says there. No, these, these two cells here the, and these come from these data assumptions about our population and Amherst compared to the Commonwealth and our square acreage compared to the Commonwealth coming to these two things I truthfully I have a note in here. Where I'm actually not, I need to verify whether this populate this population, which is 39,000 and comes from the census here. I, I, I don't know if that includes students. I was just asking your math there. The math does not include either of these. Oh, it does not. So these are there for, for thought provoking and to be able to set these two. So, you know, the user inputs, what Amherst portion is, you know, my senses look at these and you know by land area it's, it's 0.28 by population it's 0.55 so I don't know which one to choose but let's choose something that you know scans those appropriate to those so the calculation. And the math doesn't actually include those, those cells that just it does the low and the high are the land area versus the population. Yeah, one way to look at it. Yeah, yeah, I didn't close maybe not. And to answer Vasu's question, if the pop if you increase the population, then then the solar capacity needed goes up. Yeah, basic assumption people use energy so the more people you have in a given district, the more energy gets used. I'm the other way maybe to look at it. Yeah, it might be we know, we know Amherst electric load. We also can find the Commonwealth electric load. And maybe that's another way to look at it, because we do know this, this electric load is specifically not inclusive of the universities. So when I guess there's a recommendation at the end of the day, this is a recommendation that we're making to the town manager, and we're using the workshop forum to educate the community. I don't think they need to get into details. I think we can continue to fine tune this if we don't like the population method to we can come back and change it. I don't think we're going to make a big, I mean it's not going to make a big impact in terms of what we're going to do in the near term in the long term, things could change. I would say, I think someone mentioned this to I mean for the town manager. And for the community, we just need a one pager. And what is the recommendation is it a minimum of 24 megawatts that the town needs what does that equate to into an understandable language for the community. There's a caveat that we're going to continue to fine tune this based on the solar assessment based on additional information that we get around what other communities are doing or whatever else. I think it's, I think it's okay to leave it as is and continue to think through this in the future and make changes. I would just say that absolutely we need a one pager to provide to the to the town forums and so forth. I have no doubt that there are a subset of individuals and Amherst and want to know how we came out with that and would want to dig into this into the bowels of the spreadsheet. You know, I do want to have a spreadsheet that's available for for those folks who want to, to play around with and with documentation of where the numbers are coming from. That would make sense like an appendix that I think Lori mentioned that Lori. Yeah, I just wanted to second the idea that the population number should be struck and I like the idea of replacing instead a percent of the energy usage minus force the universities, not including the universities. And then I think this is clean and I think none of these numbers include the university in any sort of a confusing, confusing way. Unless unless we have and I look to Stephanie maybe but is there an official population of Amherst that's not inclusive of the university. Because the students vote so I don't think that's possible. No, no, I when we have our population demographics that include students. I'm kind of would would suggest we include students that live off campus and reside in our in our homes but is it inclusive of students in dormitories. It depends where they've registered to vote. Exactly. Is that what it is. Is that what it is. Okay, then that's hard. Yeah. No, that's not what the synthesis is the sense is where you're residing right now as we're talking. I mean, I'm a student. I think it's a college town, you know, everything's like very blurry. Yeah, and when you think about the problem is the problem isn't including the students the problem is including the students and not including the contribution to the electric grid of the universities. That's the problem. Well, is it though for off campus students. Not for off campus but I don't think there's an easy way to get that difference right I mean it's either population of Amherst or not. So some students registered to vote here, or when they respond to a census they might suggest they live in Amherst even if they live in a dorm and others give their hometown maybe so it's hard to hard to get a good number. Yeah, and I guess the question is this fair share really based on population or should it be more on average income, median income. Would that be a better approach and yeah, I don't know if you have some data around that Dwayne and because I'm looking at the range right the range of data and method two and three. There's a lot of variation there versus method one. It's, it's data that's available. It's easier to calculate and so you projected it out into 2050. And then going back to what Lori was saying is, maybe if we can fine tune our method correctly in methods two and three possibly talk through what they could be those numbers might change, and then we can use the minimum of whatever. Anybody and particularly those in on the public listening in that these numbers are, are at all what we're going to come out with, come out with as as ecac recommendations because we still need to review those. Yeah. Stephanie. So, I just want to reiterate because I've heard this come up a couple of times during this conversation that the town manager will vote or adopt or have final, you know, we'll look at these numbers and sort of say these are the numbers. I think what you're doing is making a recommendation and providing the town with knowledge and information that it needs to make it's, you know, just sort of work towards its goals. So their goals, but they're not going to necessarily, there's not going to be an official like adoption you're basically giving the town the information that it needs to move towards its goals. So, it's like a clear like this is the goal line, you know, and this is how, you know, this is what we've got to work towards and try to achieve so, but it's not. Again, it's not them voting on it. Do you know what I mean, I guess there's a, it's a fine line, but I want to be clear that it's not like you're going to give it to them and they're going to say, yes, you know, we're voting on this today. And Stephanie, we can continue to fine tune and give an updated. Yeah, exactly. Because it's something that like Steve and everybody has pointed out along the way. Things are going to numbers are going to change, you know, technology is going to change and who knows what's going to be on the horizon in 10 years from now so I just want to be clear about that so it doesn't keep coming up. Yep. Makes sense. Thanks Stephanie. Laura. And then Jesse. Yeah, so, so I actually think this could be a much simpler discussion for the sake of just the bylaw. So that's our most pressing issue right the bylaw needs to be developed what we don't want to happen is for the bylaw to limit land use so much that we can't meet our goals. So I think what we need to say it what we need to come out with is what is our recommendation should be. This is the amount of megawatts. This is the minimum amount of megawatts that we need to make sure our bylaw supports that does not mean we are going to site solar in all those places. Right. We're not suggesting that we site 180 megawatts worth of solar. But if the state level plan says that there's a possibility that we're going to need 100,000 acres of land based solar and amherst share of that is x% then we can't have a bylaw that reduce that limits, we should not have a bylaw that limits the amount of solar less than that. That number from the state already includes population growth. It already includes all of the other energy use growth it already includes all of the other factors that we're talking about rooftop deployment. Hydro everything so so so we don't need to worry about that yet in this particular discussion. What we need to say to the bylaw group is that we can't as ecac we can't support a bylaw that limits land use to numbers sorry my. Just getting in the picture on that supports numbers that won't allow us what that don't support the state meeting their goals because the state. If the state doesn't meet their goals we're not going to meet our goals, full stop right. I can take a stab at writing that up, but I think that's the first question. Then I think there's separate discussion about a lot of other things, like what it what should we be doing for all these other areas. What should be our what should we be trying to support for land but for the case of the bylaw we just can't have the bylaw say, Okay, here's 10 acres to play with. And then we know we're going to need way more than that, right. Just as you're saying that Laura. I guess I'm wondering, and I'm sort of thinking that in this method three. Recognizing that these two is these two this assumption of terms of the percentage of solar capacity that is assumed to be ground mounted is really a pretty wild guess. But I should remove that and and but differentiate this method three as just being a suggestion of what the ground mounted array capacity might be in Amherst to do our fair share if you will, and have that. In this graph and maybe a different, a clear bar here that just says you know, ground mountain ground mounted portion. Because that might, because I think that's as you state Laura, I mean this, this projection by the state is pretty useful and helpful for us in terms of the bylaw work. And that that might be more informative as a, as a somewhat of a standard method, just for ground mounted for the bylaw and for everybody. Right and just keep it as an orange now I get it. Thanks. Thanks. Yeah, yeah, we'll have two apples and an orange. Yeah. Yeah. Does it, does it make sense to not use the word recommendation at all this is an analysis. This is analysis says this is what the state says, we did an analysis we looked at it three different ways. And if you average it all out it's 100 megawatts, because at some point we got to get to one or two or God forbid three numbers that we're putting up there in front of everyone. And I think. So I think to me, the next step in my mind and again, everything that everyone's saying is some seems extremely valuable. I just trust you on the back end of this. And basically to the, to the front end, and so the analysis that I'm curious about is like, how do we take all these numbers and, and we do it down and what's the right number to show the results of our analysis or I'm not going to take credit for So it could be, you know, different ways people do this, and we do this all the time with buildings with budgets. Sometimes we lock off the high and the low and give that as a range sometimes we take the average and then expand it and give that a range. Anything kind of do whatever we want with that range could be 75 to 125 megawatts. Personally, I'm comfortable with anything as long as it meets Laura's criteria that we don't accidentally go too low. And I also like Dwayne's idea that it be arranged but if we can agree on that some kind of range that can then feed into a simple summary that feels very valuable. Sorry, I didn't unmute fast enough that I just wanted to agree that we should put down a number or a range and I have no objection to just taking the average of the top four numbers, not the bottom, well, with a couple of changes right there needs to be the change in the average to energy usage from population percent and leaving out the third one, you know just taking some sort of an average of the first four numbers. That would be my, that would be one way to do it and I would be perfectly happy with that and then if you want to put error bars or uncertainty or arrange on it that's fine with me too. What we need to do is just finalize these numbers and then you know have someone have someone propose something and then see if we can agree on it. I think that would be fine so that we have that simple. This is our recommendation this is what we think will be enough to get us through 2050. The average or a common range between the three methods right 63 to 92, whatever works like, so I guess what I heard was, Laura, you want to, you're going to work with Dwayne and come up with a one pager figure out what the recommendation would be between Dwayne and Laura, whether it's an average or a range. I think we agreed on range would be a better way to go approach this. And with that makes sense. And then for the next meeting, Dwayne you'll propose that one, you'll share that one pager with us. Do we want just want to do that. That sounds good to me. I mean, I, if we're talking about two weeks from now. I think we could focus on on getting the spreadsheet up to snuff and some graphics out that we might plop onto a one pager. I'm not sure if I'd have time to sort of put that one pager together but happy to work with Laura or anybody else. Jessica can throw in his info graphic idea to help us as well. Yeah, Dwayne we do have the education series next, yeah, meeting so I wonder if it makes sense for you to share and Laura to share information. Maybe sometime next week end of next week so he can review it before the meeting and give feedback and it's, we can take a vote on it or just a quick yes no if everybody agrees with the methodology and the approach we're going to take. The methodology everybody agrees with the methodology but one pager. Would that work Dwayne if by next Friday if you can share with everybody. Yeah, I'll send something to Dwayne. I've great and then we'll go from there. Yeah. Thank you. Great thank you. Thanks Dwayne. Thanks everybody. Thank you. All right, this should be quick right Lori will talk about the sustainability festival. I just wanted to get input. I'm starting from a blank slate here I haven't done this before so how has eCAC done this in the past and what ideas you guys have for eCAC booth at the sustainability festival coming up in April. Steve can I just give you some quick background that ECA didn't have a booth. We've been in, we've been in a pandemic. So, we haven't had the festival in a few years so basically you're just starting from a clean slate. Everybody is. Okay, then ideas. When we did the block party. Last year or in the fall, what I found was useful was telling people about the Massave program. And unless there's good Massave is already going to have a presence at the sustainability festival. I think it would be helpful if we kind of took on the role of having maybe little handouts or information that people can photograph or take with them about the Massave program, promote that and maybe promote heat pumps as you've been working on Lori maybe there'd be some one pager that, again, have some handouts but people can also take pictures of things that we have available for phone. Yeah, let's not forget pace because they're going to be busy. Yeah, yeah, pace is probably a more targeted smaller audience than the general. So the pace, what we have the pace flyer there, we have the pace flyer there I'll make up a heat pump flyer I'll also have links or little, I'll try to get cards or a packet from places like Green Consumer Alliance and are they going to be there who's going to be there. I don't have a final list it takes a while for that to all come together but usually we try to get CET there and they're a Massave provider so they will be the kind of official Massave sponsor if they're there, but that doesn't mean you can't have some information or direct people I mean there's a lot of cross reference from different vendors that are there that day so that's fine, but you wouldn't you wouldn't be sort of the official ones handing out that information but feel free. Okay, so you're going to, I know I'm on this mailing list for this event. Will you keep us updated as to who's going to be there as you know, I will check in with you separately but. If I know but I mean I think I have to know what you're trying to look for I mean there's in the past we've had 100 vendors I don't know what the final count will be this year. So, you know, there's a lot of people and it's it's not just information it's craft vendors there's entertainers there's, you know, a lot of folks so we can touch base separately on that. Yeah, anything that has to do with energy conversion or or you know specifically I think energy and electric cars right conversion away from fossil fuels. You all should just focus on what information you want to provide to Amherst residents. I wouldn't worry about other people being there already and representing that your people are going to stop to see you specifically for different reasons. So, I think you just present them with the information that you think they should have. Last time we printed the sheet of paper and then we had a barcode where they could scan in, and it'll direct them to the massive website and we'll talk, we talked about it. If you want to send me that so I can. Yeah, I will. Yeah, great. Jesse. Yeah, he, I think I want to just one of the bosses goal to have more people come to these meetings. I see we've got six people here and there's even a hand up. Really, I think, finding a way to like connect with people and, and in some ways, given that there's going to be so much other stuff happening I wonder. Simplifying our message a little bit of like, you know, ask us what we're doing tell us what you want us to be doing that kind of thing. Listening like to make a lot of room for a lot of listening sort of like really bill it as that have notebooks take notes and be able to to absorb as much of what people want. That's, that's my thinking there. How about a big neural board or something that people can write on and put their ideas on and just sort of colored pens and stuff like that. Yeah, that's what we did last time. Jesse did you took pictures right. Did. And I distributed the group. Yeah, if you. Okay. Let me see if I can take it up. I'll send it over to all right. Great. Stephanie. Sorry, I meant to lower that. And I actually went to the library or the weekend. I talked to Linda. I don't know her name. I don't know her last name. And she said she's going to help us have like books that are. Climate theme. They'll also be open during the day. So between 10 to 4pm, the library is going to be open and they're going to display some books. And then I also got in touch with Amherst cinema playing climate theme movies, potentially on that day or over the weekend. I'm still waiting to hear back. I heard we exchanged communications once, but I didn't get a response yet on whether they're okay. Yeah, and then the third thing I was thinking about is work with businesses and this might be a hard bet and turn off the lights for an hour. After sunset. If that's possible, just for an hour just candle candles to light up the restaurants. Because it's our day or our ready's energy. Some theme. I think it'll be a little bit more challenging to do. I don't know about that. We have a fire. It'll be a big problem. We can't turn the lights off. Yeah, I think that's a bad idea. Do not do that. Lots of folks have trouble seeing as it is with the lighting and then no more trouble. Can I can I jump in real quick. I just want to advise you to keep focused and keep it simple. If you're doing too many things, it's going to be too much and you're going to get too overwhelmed. I mean, there's already a lot going on anyway. So I would say focus on a thing, you know, find a thing to. I think it's a remote e-cac and what e-cac is doing and maybe some sort of a little flyer about the carp just to let people know there's this plan. Some flyers and I think yeah, just keeping it simple and getting input from people sounds like a good idea. Laura and Dwayne. I just want to flag for folks that it is the tail end of the April vacation week. So I to agree completely with Stephanie and we should also just make sure who's going to be like I don't think I'll be around so and there may be others who may not be around either so just wanted to flag that. Yeah, just something came in my head for the for the sustainability fair. I mean, one thing we could offer to get to us who's a goal of getting more public participation in our meetings is a flyer or QR code or whatever it's called for folks to get right to our website of our meeting times and so forth, but also maybe offer that the meeting following Earth Day will be dedicated to public input. And just have an open meeting for folks that came by and told their friends and wanted to put something forward to us. That's a great idea. Listening session. Yeah. Anything else. Thanks everybody that's great. Appreciate it. Laurie I'll also send you a link. Town of Winchester had a climate solutions week. I don't want it to be complicated just take a look at their website and see what they did if their ideas that are beneficial that we want to take on. Over to you. Thanks. Yep. Actually I see a chat. The chat box opens Stephanie I don't know if I can host it there. Okay, no. No, you shouldn't be using the chat box. Sorry. Okay. Okay staff updates. Yeah. So I've met with Laurie, we are sort of fine tuning the RFP for the. For heat pump vendor consultant. I'm sorry. So we're looking, you know, to sort of wrap that up. Also moving forward with the fleet inventory. For greenhouse gas emissions analysis that, you know, again, these things seem like simple requests, but when we go to get the data. The data isn't the same in the various databases and so we're, you know, we're having to sort of piecemeal together or put things in retroactively to sort of bring it up to speed to get us all the information that we need. So it's taking time, but I think we're going to get there sooner than later. So that's kind of exciting that we're finally moving that forward as well. So those were sort of two big things. The RFPs went in for fellows for the summer programming. So I think those have been advertised now on the UNH sustainability institute website. I can send you all the information so that if you can kind of get it out to your networks, especially those of you with institutional links to college students, both at the undergrad and grad level. There's opportunities for both. So I would really encourage you to please help spread the word on that. So I'll forward that separately after this meeting. Those are kind of the bigger things. Also, we did, I think I did tell you that we met with Kim Lundgren from Kim Lundgren Associates, who has the community dashboard tool. And so we have met with them, got a quote, and we'll be probably moving that forward. Although I'm realizing that, you know, I want to have substantial information to sort of post. So, you know, as we move some of these things forward, like when we have the, the CCA website up and running when we have the solar assessment or the community survey information, which is, you know, in another month. So I would say like in another month or two would be a more appropriate time for that to sort of move forward, not like tomorrow. It doesn't quite make sense right now. I think we have more that we want to be promoting. So I want to sort of build it with them with actual programming in place or soon to be programming in place. So those are the very quick updates because I know you've got public comment and I don't want to take away too much from that. Thank you for your understanding. Any CAC member, please. Steve. I just am excited to report I installed a heat pump water heater. Last month, and first partial month of use. I'm learning that I'm paying about $1.20 a day for hot water heating right now with the heat pump heater, as opposed to probably a little over $2 when I was paying for fuel oil. So that's a substantial savings. The heat pump was water heater was not cheap, but I had a substantial ever source supported discount at the cash register and an additional discount on my taxes so it came down to price of the new heat pump tank comparable to a standard electric tank. And it's a pretty simple installation. Pretty easy to swap an electric standard electric for a heat pump water tank so I'm pretty excited. Thanks to you. This is one other thing that we can also talk about right during the festival. People have installed heat pumps or whatever right and that could be a conversation. I have a lot of charts and graphs I'll bring up. I'll have a huge data display showing my heat pump. Oh, I got an idea so we can have whoever's there can have a sign it say ask me about, you know, heat pump, if you put one in or ask me about heat pumps for heating or ask me about needy, you know, people who've done this, if you've done it already will have a few signs that you can put on the table in front of you. You can ask for who is going to be there who can help staff the table but we can do that another time I think just write that you know think about your availability. I'll be there but I'll be heavily jet lagged. Yeah. Okay, for the next meeting, we're going to have our education series on transportation. We're going to have that one page of discussion on the solar calculations doing you have that. So we have a discussion on pace done that we can talk about the pace flyer. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah. So we have the pace flyer that we're going to discuss. I don't think there's anything else I'm missing anything. Anything on heat pumps glory. I don't think so what about the discussion or is that going to wait. Andra and Stephanie about the new specialized code. Because that was a watch for that. We have to talk about that to a good point. Yeah, Jesse was going to talk about that. Correct. Yep. Thank you. Okay, let's open it up to the public for comments. Julian has had his hand up for some time so I'm going to. Sorry Julian. Julian I've just allowed you to speak did you have a question. Hi. Yes, thank you, Stephanie. I was just going to say that on behalf of the public chain tree committee were also going to be working and doing some outreach at the sustainability festival. So we wanted to see if there's any way we could partner with you or work with you guys to make that event. Go. Yeah, you're an official partner for that event so we can talk offline. Okay perfect sounds good. And my other question was about the heat pump programs just expanding sort of who knows about it. We looked into it for my house and turns out a lot of my neighbors just didn't know about it so I really do like the idea of expanding that. Thank you. Thanks Julian. Thanks for joining. Any other questions. Okay, looks like that's all we have the time for. Thank you everybody for dialing in. Thanks. Thank you. Bye bye.