 Now, this is going to be, you know, what doesn't, you know, or rather who doesn't like an interesting fireside chat. Well, for this, we're going to be inviting on stage and screen, Mr. Roland Landers, the CEO of all India Gaming Federation for a fireside chat with Mr. Well, we're going to have a great chat. And it's going to be amazing to hear the two gentlemen talk about how to make gaming grow in India. Well, if you would like any further questions to go to them, well this session is scheduled till 420 Indian standard time so we'd love for it to start at the earliest. If you do have any questions, please go ahead and tweet with hashtag E4M game on a very simple hashtag and we request you to continue with, you know, being online and interacting with the speakers. So Manish, before, you know, I believe Roland has gone on the other interface and he's maybe joined on the other side but he's just going to be joining us shortly in the back end. We'd just like to know your opening thoughts before, of course, Roland joins in, since your expertise is so immense, we'd love to know your opening thoughts on the topic today, Manish. Alright, so ladies and gentlemen, as you can see on the screen, yes, we do have Manish and Roland joining us, but we just got your introduction in place, and we just request, if you know, in an interest of time, we partly got actually 11 minutes as per schedule. I know that's going to be a little tight on the time but yeah, we'd love to hear from you and how to make gaming grow in India is a very interesting topic. So Roland, you know, this is conversations between you and Mr. Agarwal, we'd love to take that forth now, over to you. Yeah, thanks. Manish and I have had so many chats, room chats, group chats on this industry, but I've never had a fireside chat with him so that's probably a first. So, hi Manish, good to do this fireside chat with you again. Thanks Roland and thanks for him for doing this for both the friends bringing it together. We have done this as Roland's and in boardrooms multiple times, so now we will do it in public. So, long time no see Roland. Yeah, Manish, we spoken on that as the matter but on coming to the subject I think, given that time we have one and I also have a hard stopper. So thanks Manish for being here, thanks for him for putting this together. So quickly Manish, we all know the numbers I'm sure the panelists ahead of us may have spoken about the great growth, et cetera that the industry is turning out. But I wanted to get your view on the challenges you know we know there are plenty but you know maybe if you could highlight some of the challenges that the industry is currently facing. Yeah, so Roland just to kind of put in context for everybody who's listening and will listen recording is, we have 500 million gamers and growing and that kind of drive of gaming is really huge and in terms of time spent in terms of as an entertainment format this is really kind of dominant and taken over other formats. The opportunities, as we always say in the data this is a golden decade of gaming for all gaming companies and the gaming market which is just starting. I would break down the gaming market into three parts. One is you have free to play mobile gaming. One is skill based real money gaming. And then you have within free to play mobile gaming you have games which are casual. And then you have multiplayer games. So that's part one a one B and then skill based and then there is eSports. I think combination of all these three things really make it a very exciting market because of the sheer population size. Each of these segment can do off any multiple countries in Europe and anywhere else and and we are just starting on that. So massive massive amount of opportunity which is in front of us now each of these sector has some of the other. Niggles, which if kind of really sorted out can really gonna put it as a rocket ships skill based real money gaming which you and I really chat a lot and we work a lot with industry. We can have one clear policy about what defines skill gaming which games are skill gaming and centrally nationally that's one policy so that nobody can really say that he listen. This what is a game of skill can be really banned that game of skill and state level. If you can get one clear thing that skill gaming is part of center not state and then it is a clear definition skill gaming can be played in this and this is that this is the games which form part of skill gaming that will explore this market because investors will come in. People like us will do more capital allocation. The consumer acquisitions will be far more aggressive in nature. So we'll do that. The second thing is the GST clarity, which really kind of really impairs your unit economics your EBITDAs and PNLs and this business is a lot of cash good cash business initially and then you hope their profits will happen after a gestation period. And if your GST clarity is not there, you kind of don't know what you're operating. So that's the skill gaming play on the free to play multiplayer gaming and eSports. I think the key challenge has been infrastructure of internet speeds and capability and stability of internet speeds. Thankfully after the geo launch and investment in home fiber by a lot of companies that is really helped but we are still on a scale of one to 10 maybe four compared to our East Asian countries and as internet quality in terms of speed and stability increases. I think that multiplayer gaming will take off and along with that eSports will take off. The second part on the eSports is we need to really create large scale arenas where people can come. They can really watch people playing. They can really have a feeling of watching a match like an Eden Gardens or one KD and that kind of arenas. If they are done in let's say 20 cities 40 cities 60 cities smart cities that will really kind of spur a lot of local heroes zero to hero stories. And the third pieces on the on the overall gaming is the skilling part. The gaming needs good designers gaming needs a very strong thinking on progression design concept design economy design live operations of strong QA data analytics. Now some of these facets are not being taught in our universities and that can only happen on on the job. And how do we really invite a lot more global companies to set up office in India where our own people can learn on the job. And that will spur many more entrepreneurs and that will really kind of feed more amount of content. I think those are the four five things I will kind of really define which as industry. All of us have been really working to really get them sorted. In spite of that we are growing and in spite of that we'll continue to grow. I think that's the fantastic part of this industry. Thanks. Thanks Manish. Absolutely agree with what we said. And recently some of our geography based challenges have been elevated so to say because of the positive judgments that have come from three in the last eight to nine months starting with Madras and then Kerala in between. So you know that really has given a big boost to some of the legal documents. The other things absolutely agree GST is an issue and you know clarity on on the same is is required by the industry so that so that you know it so that the tax authorities do look at you know giving a boost to the already growing sunrise sector that is contributing immensely to the to the economy. And we really as industry look forward to that and obviously both of us are working towards towards the same. The other challenges absolutely agree and needles and challenges absolutely agree with what you mentioned about skilling as well as you know the arena piece which I'm sure now with the situation normalizing the arenas could be a big draw going forward. Thanks for that Manish. I also you know we've seen this entire ecosystem is you know actually on a you know on steroids absolutely starting with your product guys you know innovating in gaming offerings backed by investors and then you know the platforms themselves putting all those together almost like a platform offering now for for gamers to really come on and you know experience the gaming experience. I think that the entire ecosystem in accelerated mode. What are some of the you know emerging trends because the all of this is tech driven you know gaming companies themselves are tech technology service providers enablers and you know there's a lot of development happening and also you rightly mentioned I think with the with the opening up of the 2G 5G spectrum Bills in in middle of 22 as announced in the budget also would give a boost to the to the access side you know and and latency and all those issues, but you know investors as we as I was reading somewhere, almost billion and a half US dollars worth of M&A investments coming into the sector right right now. So what do you think you know with the technology developments happening parallelly with investors you know backing innovative gaming offerings. What are some of the trends you see Manish you know later this year and you know in the coming maybe next year. I think before I come to the investors and trends Roland one of the thing which again is important for us to really kind of work as industry and forum of E4M is about how gaming is good. I think we are fundamental thing if you were to kind of look at we come from a very deep seated cultural insight that go out in place better and if you are on the screen it will make you a lethargic child and you will not be able to kind of really build your stamina you will not be able to build your muscle strength motor skills all that stuff. Now that is something which I think over pandemic Prime Minister also spoken about and if you are on the screen it will make you a lethargic. Yeah, so that whole thing about it really helps you in mental stability mental sanity. Esports is creating athletes athletes are going to Commonwealth and Asian sports. How does we create a national esports championship regional sports college eight. How can these athletes which require mental strength physical strength, externity, all of that become very, very important for us to really kind of look at and forums like E4M can really play a very strong role coming with the industry to really propagate gaming is good because what we will do is that this generation of ours will take five, seven, 10 years to really kind of educate that these are deep seated habits which we are really fighting these perceptions you are fighting while 30 years later the current generation which is native to gaming, they will be the guys who are decision makers and then the evangelizing would be much lesser compared to the job which you and I will have to do today. And I think that's one thing which I will really kind of reach out to E4M. Coming to your question here, I think I am personally very excited about the game five the web 3.0 right. For the first time, 400 million people in India who are really playing casual gaming or hardcore games and buying virtual digital assets in the game will have an opportunity to not just use them for entertainment. As a progression in the game or as a winning the game as a competitive game format. I would also be kind of saying that he listen if I hold the assets. If I grind on the assets if I'm able to build value for those assets. There is a secondary market where that effort which I've done is being appreciated, and I can make money out of it. The entire play and earn model in a countries like India will really kind of usher in a huge amount of growth flip what we saw four or five years back and play to one and skill based real money gaming. I think it's going to get repeated with obviously a lot of infrastructure in the very early days of onboarding issues and many other issues which needs to get sorted on that 3.0. But all of them will get sorted. There is enough and more talent. The best of the talent is working the huge amount of money is coming into that space and that play and earn. Combined with watch to earn is what is really going to stimulate and accelerate the adoption of that 400 million people which are currently not part of the consumer transaction cash flow, they will also come part of that cash flow. Yeah, absolutely. And as the as the IGF, you know, the lead federation, we are also looking at that space, my name and see you know how these technology led gaming initiatives. Would you know change as you rightly said you know just how the life cycle of the pay to play RMG unfolded. You could see a similar and you know combined with that I think it's a huge explosion that is likely to happen. Another another thing which I feel is code has a potential of disrupting the Indian gaming ecosystem is a cloud gaming where every device, whether it's a 5000 piece device can become a fantastic gaming device. And if our 5G is a is a high quality internet, we can really provide that entire processing is happening in the cloud and that will give massive to multiplayer gaming happening. And that will open up the huge amount of adoption. Today, a multiplayer would be around 75 80 million 100 million people that will open up to 300 million people and there is no better experience than playing a multiplayer game, because every experience is a new experience every experience is a fresh experience. And that's where I would believe combination, the infrastructure is always the backbone and on top of it, whether you do cloud gaming, and then that three point play and earn model. These two things will further make this the opportunity which is exciting me will will really make it a real one. And as I always say, there is no other market than India which can offer global game publishers 3035% 40% for next five years. And this is the market, which they will have to come, because other markets are mature, and they cannot really satisfy the of whether the private equity investor, which is invested in them or a public market Yeah, absolutely right Manish. Thanks for that. And we are also seeing you know why this is a great marketplace with the numbers contributing you know immensely from the adoption by a newer set of gamers as well adding to this existing 400 million tech tech enabled of course you know, driving that number further up to probably 500 million by 2025. So exciting space and you know, as you also articulated, well backed by technology and you know the investor communities. We are seeing also India out, I mean, you know, while a lot of the game development and you know this best better than others, how, you know, teams are collaborating with international some of them have set up studios also develop some, you know, highly immersive games. That is already happening in the game development side. And we are also seeing that you know, some of the gaming companies also looking at going, you know, international India out, so to say, what is your, you know, view on that, while a lot of the investor and also international companies are in the skill side and some of these web 3.0 will be looking at India as a potential market. We are also seeing if you look at any market Roland, the gaming entrepreneurs come in with the backing of gaming entrepreneurs. So successful gaming companies which have seen exits or which have seen value creation, they become the anchor for their employees or the rest of the ecosystem to really become giving entrepreneurs. And this is what we have seen historically in any market in the latest example being Turkey, a small country with big games in 2017 18 really getting an exit and then it has spawned off so many successful gaming companies today. And I believe that in India with Nazara's IPO with play simple moon frog and some of the large skill based real money gaming companies giving the shops buy back that is going to spur massive amount of entrepreneurial activity in gaming with high quality talent really coming out. Second part is the when investors start seeing exits they get excited to invest in the segment. Earlier there were no exits and hence they were skeptical that we'll get stuck now that they are seeing exits, whether the multiple rounds and exits happening, or it is about exits happening through an IPO or strategic sale. I think the entire investment is going to really increase in the segment. And that's what we have already seen about it, and investment is no longer getting concentrated in top 34 players, it is getting more broad based. And that's where I'm very excited about the entrepreneurs coming out in India whether they are making in India for India, or they're making in India for below. I think that is a function of their own estimation and understanding of where the market and what kind of game they are making. But the high quality game development over the next two, three years, I'm very, very confident that what has happened in Turkey in the next five years will happen in India. A massive amount of game studios being lapped up by local gaming companies and the global gaming companies. Yeah, thanks Manish. And yeah, I mean, just as we do every year, you know, the numbers for the 50 frames report, which EY compiles, you know, the number of game development companies, gaming platforms itself, you know, the startups all are extremely high, I mean 300 plus 400 plus. So, things are really looking up and as you rightly said, you know, with all of these, if India can go the way Turkey goes as you envisage. I think, you know, exciting times for our industry and I really look forward to, you know, working along with you for the benefit of the game. I think one of the area where we are lacking is participation and excitement or the aggression or stroke conviction, whatever you call it of brands and spending on gaming. We have seen consumers spending increasing, we have spent seeing the consumer, the IAP increasing consumer behavior in a non-skill money gaming. But we are frankly not seeing the participation of the advertisers with the gaming companies and seeing what can really done and what can be created to build communities around the context of gaming. I think that is where there is still quite a lag and given that we are on this forum again where a lot of E4M touch points really happened with the advertising industry. I think that's something which I would urge again the guys who are listening any for him to figure out what could be done because it's an amazing sticky community which happens and eSports is a great example of that. But how do we really kind of build a long communities of yours with the context of gaming has not been seen in action here yet. Could you brought that up Manish? I'm sure the forum guys can look at it just like for brands who are targeting this difficult to reach young audiences as Manish said. I think free to play gaming and other gaming platforms and avenues that can be used to market brands. Thank you Manish. Thanks a lot for the time and I enjoyed as always speaking with you. Thanks E4M and if there are any questions you can post them through and you'll be happy to answer. Thanks. Thank you once again.