 Hello and welcome to the CCTV Time Machine. This is a new program that we're kicking off here at CCTV in which we will take you back through our archive of over 40,000 programs dating back to 1984 and celebrate and reflect on the moments in those programs that capture the remarkable leadership and unique stories of our communities in Vermont. On this show, we'll invite some of the folks that are featured in these archives, some of which are behind us and many more of which are in closets and other parts of the CCTV studios, invite folks featured in those archives to look back with us, reflect on those moments in our community's history and talk about what's changed since then. So today, we're very lucky to be joined by Gay Symington. Thank you, Gay, for joining us. Gay is a leader in many ways throughout Vermont communities, including as a former Vermont legislator and speaker of the Vermont House. So, Gay, thank you so much for being here. You're welcome. Nice to be here. Awesome. So, okay, we're hopping into the Time Machine here, Gay. So, our first trip in the CCTV Time Machine, we're traveling back to 2005, just after the new year. It's the first day of the legislative session in Montpelier, and you were sworn in as speaker of the House that day. So, before we rev up the machine, pull up some of the footage here that we have. What comes to mind for you about that day, if anything, is anything you remember specifically? Well, that day was a blur, I'm sure. But just seeing some of the clip as you were practicing or getting this ready, I'm looking at people who worked incredibly hard. We had worked so hard as a team to regain the majority for the Democratic party that I was part of. So, to see John Tracy, who's speaking and introducing me, and imagine back that day when it was all ahead of us still, and he would lead the effort to reform how we paid for healthcare in Vermont, and to make sure everybody has access to healthcare. And then he became sort of head of Senator Leahy's team in the Vermont office. And there was a clip in passing of legislator then, Shep Smith, and Michael Boski, who had been speaker before me. So, it just took a lot of work for that day to come to pass when we could once again elect a Democratic speaker. And I was, you know, it was just a real team effort. So, it's cool to see some of those faces and hear those voices again. Yeah, you've seen about five seconds of the footage so far. You've already a lot of memories here. So, I'm looking forward to hopping in. Okay, are you ready to kind of travel back? Here we go. It's January 5th, 2005. We have some serious challenges ahead of us. We all know those. We need a speaker that has the dedication and the intellect to face these problems head on, that acknowledges the individual traits that we have, and we'll be able to bring them together so collectively we can bring out good public policy that will make life better for Vermonters. We need a speaker that has faith in the people that sent us here and trust in our abilities as individuals to work together to make life better. With those traits in mind and with the utmost confidence, it is an honor for me to put forth a nomination, the name of Gay Simonton, her speaker of the Vermont House of Representative. Reminiscent of our first cross-haul discussions, I have warned her of the impending headaches of a large majority, looming budgetary problems, and all the rest that she will encounter speaker. And for some strange reason, she still wants the job. I declare that Gay Simonton of Jericho has been elected speaker for the ensuing biennium. I, Gay Simonton, do solemnly swear that I will be true and faithful to the state of Vermont, to the state of Vermont, that I will support the Constitution of the United States of the United States. So help me God. So help me God. Congratulations. Today, you have given me a great honor to serve Vermont and to serve you as speaker. And I know that in electing me to serve as the speaker of the Vermont House, you have given me a gavel, not a crown. I accept this position as one of managing a conversation and doing that with respect, with mutual respect. Also, I would like to just remind you that it is not my job to decide whether you can speak, but rather when, and to manage the timing and the flow, as long as we all are all following the rules of the House. And so I'd like to suggest that we break the habit when you begin to speak of thanking the speaker, but rather just initiate your comments. In this House, power also comes from recognizing that our power is rooted in the trust of our voters. None of us wears a crown. Vermonters have asked us to use our power to strengthen our communities and our families and our businesses by finding a way to ensure that all Vermonters have access to healthcare, by setting a course that provides our homes and businesses safe and reliable energy, by improving the viability and strength and diversity of our rural economy. And by setting forward a budget that lives up to our responsibilities without asking our children to pay the bills for services and infrastructure that we want the benefit of today. Our work in this House requires that we reach outside ourselves, outside our individual experiences, beyond the distinctions that determine our differences and define our uniqueness, to find common values and to strengthen our state community. I am honored and grateful to have been elected to guide the House, to guide our work in this, the People's House. Thank you very, very much. I was, I, so putting this clip together and going through all the footage of your time in the House and your leadership game is really emotionally impactful for me and just made me really grateful for all the work that you did and the way that you approached that work. I know it's kind of bizarre to watch footage of yourself from a while ago, so I really appreciate you coming in and looking back with us. What emotions, what memories come up for you when you're revisiting that day? Well, it is a blur, but I, and it is the people to see, you know, as I mentioned, John Tracy, Carolyn Partridge, who I turned, you know, who I also hugged, she led, she was the majority leader. Floyd Nice was in that picture too as the assistant leader. And, you know, we had, we had big goals and we had worked really hard to try to change the, to be in a position of power. And so it was, it was just day of promise. And then the member from Orwell, who I'm embarrassed to say that I'm, we're getting his name, but he was a Republican and he took eternal grief for having seconded my nomination throughout the two years. But he was very gracious and I really appreciated the fact that there was, you know, that we were making a statement by having a Democrat and a Republican, you know, make those, make the nominations. I believe there was a third, but I'm not sure. So I won't speak for whether there was a progressive who also chimed in. But, you know, it was just a, it was, and then to see my children who are much older now, you know, and Deb Markowitz, who was, had been Secretary of State, but, and Deb had used that role and used her position of leadership to really encourage women throughout the state to run for office. There wasn't an organization that we now call Emerge at the time. And Deb really put a lot of effort into making the point that women really need to be invited into the state house and, I mean, to think of themselves in roles of leadership and to, and consider being in leadership. And so it was very meaningful to have her be the, you know, the, the Secretary of State to administer the oath of office. You know, I remember that very well. And it was packed, the state house was packed, you know. The previous time a woman had been speaker was, the or I was born, which was a long time ago. 1954, you know, Consuelo Bailey was the first woman speaker in Vermont. And, and the year that I was speaker, there were only two women speakers. I was one of only two in the whole country who were in the state house. So, and then my second term, there were six. And, you know, it's hard to remember, it's hard to imagine that now because most of the leadership in the state house now are women. The speaker, the majority leader, the minority leader, the chairs of money committees, that feels familiar now, but it was not. So it was, it was an honor. Yeah. So we're in 2005. You have the chance to offer some advice to a gay who's just been sworn in, has a lot of work ahead of her. What would you, what advice would you offer? Well, I had offered myself advice at the time. I had stickers in front of me, a sticker in front of me that would say, breathe, think, you know, breathe, listen, think, and then speak in progressively smaller font. The title was speaker, but actually I, I mostly listened. You know, it was, it was mostly the members of the house who were speaking. And my role was to be a facilitator. So I would, again, use that advice of, you know, listen first and take a deep breath, which would be my father's advice to me. And, yeah, and it, yeah, I think that would still be my advice. Yeah. Your colleagues made the position of speaker sound very difficult, involves setting the table for a discussion and listening and sometimes setting aside maybe your perspective or in some ways the desires of the, you know, district of Vermonters that you represent in order to serve the whole state and set the table for conversations about statewide decisions and investments. How did you, how did you try to accomplish that? You know, did you have to kind of separate your own sort of opinions and, and perspectives as a legislator from the task of setting the table and, and, and sort of laying the tasks out for the, the state as a whole? Well, you can't disengage. You need to respond, you know, in your voting, I would need to respond to myself and look at myself in the mirror and be comfortable with votes. And, you know, I had my constituency of the three, at the time it was three towns that I represented and I had a party caucus to be responsive to and in that position I had the whole house. So, I mean, you know, it's, it's, I remember the, some of the hardest work of the speaker happens in the very first days of the session and there's a lot of power in the position, in the position of speaker in that that, in Vermont, that position is vested with assigning the, the committees and choosing the leadership of the committees. That's not the same in all states. And I, but that's a while it's a position, while it's vested in the position, I don't know of a speaker certainly I wasn't going to do that alone. You know, it's very much conferring with the minority leadership about the desires of their committees. I mean, their members and where would be the right place and figuring out, you know, is there diverse representation on different committees? Do we have committees that's too dominated by one county or another? I know that I was very conscious of, I remember being conscious of being a Chittenden County leader and I had, and there were quite a few leaders who were from Chittenden County. Representative Heath of Appropriations, Representative Tracy, Health Care, Representative Anne Pugh in the Health and Human Services. There were others and so I was, and I was conscious about, you know, making sure that there was a balance and there were representatives from or rural parts of the state. And so, you know, that, anyway, there was, there's, that's, but that all got crunched, gets crunched into the very few first couple of days around the session. And then you need, you know, it's a matter of letting the committees do their work and being judicious about when you step in and say, hello. Do you remember what we promised? Does the speaker visit any, like when everybody goes off to their committees, where do you go? To my, to the speaker's office. And the speaker's office is where, you know, I would, as I recall, there were visitors to the state house would stop by the speaker's office. Certainly lobbyists wanted to understand, you know, where they're, what the process was and who they should speak to about the particular set of goals. There were a couple times when I'd appear at the door of a committee and, you know, the committee chair would go, oops, just a minute. But that was rare, you know. And mostly I was trying to figure out, you know, I'm getting this information from outside the room. I'd rather here, I'd rather, you know, get it. But I didn't, as I recall, sit in committee rooms. I wasn't a member of a policy committee. I was on the rules committee. Yeah, so. Right. It is. But, you know, and I also remember it could, you could feel isolated in the speaker's office. And there was a previous speaker, not, I think it was quite a few years before my time, had renovated the speaker's office and created a bathroom at the speaker's office. And I made a conscious choice to use the restroom, you know, down the hall, because it would allow me to walk through the cafeteria and run into people. And a lot happens in the bathrooms of legislators. They can find out a lot. That's good to know. Okay, so we have one more stop on the on the time machine journey here. We're going four to a few years to 2008. So you had a public access TV show that aired on CCTV. It was called Inside Your Statehouse. And we have all of those shows saved here at CCTV. So let's jump into one of those episodes, March 2008, I think. This is a show you hosted, which often featured your colleagues in the legislature to talk about bills that were moving forward. The episode that we're going to take a look at is a little bit different. You invited a group of legislative interns into your office to share what they were learning. So you're ready to take a look? Okay, great. So we have one more clip here. I'm Gaye Simington, and I'm Speaker of the Vermont House. This is a weekly taping that we do in my office in the Statehouse to help Vermonters have a view into their Statehouse and have a sense of some of what goes on in the Statehouse in Vermont. This is really your Statehouse. And I usually devote each of the half hour segments to one of the major topics that have been moving through. This week, I'm here lucky enough to be here with a bunch of young ladies who have been in the Statehouse, and throughout this session, they are all members of Girl Scouts, and they have been mentoring or shadowing different legislators in the House and the Senate, and learning about what's going on in the Statehouse and what happened, how state government works, and what some of its quirks are, and one of some of its characteristics that maybe we all don't learn in civics classes. And it's just, I think the reason I come back every year is because every year it gets bigger and bigger, it's expanding. The first year I was here, I think we had six times we were here, and this year we have much more than that, and next year it's constantly expanding, and this year we have to go to the UN, which is really big. And I'm sure next year it's going to be even bigger, especially with Carmel, and I'm just looking forward to it, that's why I really want to come back. Right, and like before going to the UN, I thought that gender inequality was completely based on like a person's own unwillingness or inability to fight back, and they were just kind of letting it happen to them, and then I went and I really got my eyes opened to everything that's going on, and it really inspired me because I know there's so many people out there, and then they're like, wait what, gender inequality? It's like no such thing, and now that I know it like really is a problem. It's interesting, that's great that it inspired you as opposed to made you frustrated. Right. Inspired you to really pay attention to it, and try to change things in my community, in my school, and in my community. Yeah, I think I realized Vermont's great, I mean we have a female speaker of the house, and we have the largest percent of females in the legislator, but then you look at states, I remember I was looking through the percents and I was joking with my mom, South Carolina has eight percent females, and I'm like if we could start this program in a state like South Carolina, then I mean we'd really make a difference, and I think as interns we really want to see it grow and expand to other states. So it's great to have you all in the state house to remind us that our obligations and our responsibilities go beyond just the here and now, but also the state budgets that you'll all be juggling when you're elected to serve in your communities in the state house. So thanks a lot for joining me today, and for being in the state house on a regular basis. It's great to have so many girls in the state house. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Okay, so that clip as I mentioned is a little bit irregular compared to the other shows that you typically have. We didn't want to get too in the weeds on some of the issues that you were talking about back in 2008, but this I think conversation exemplified a little bit of the conversation that you were thrown into as the second, you know, woman to be elected speaker, and you know, I know you mentioned some of the progress that's been made in pursuit of gender equity in our state's leadership since then, but you also mentioned that there's a lot left to do, you know, and yeah, I just wonder if this brings up any memories or reflections for you about the experience of being a woman in that position of power and how that experience has changed in the last 20 years? Well, yeah, I mean, it reminds me just again of that effort that so many, this was the Girl Scouts, it was a program they had initiated, and there were other times when women would come and sometimes it was women from other countries, you know, sometimes it was just a family or a mom, you know, it was just a very regular experience to have, to be stopped by a woman who was with her daughter and asked, could she introduce me to her daughter because, you know, it mattered for girls to see women in those roles, and you can't be what you can't see, you know, one of my mentors, Liz Benkowski, used to always say, and, you know, it just was true, and so, and, you know, Senator Doyle then of Washington County would often have students, he taught civics and history at Johnson State and college, which is no longer called that, but he would often bring his class into the State House, and, you know, and I would have the chance to meet with them, so it wasn't always girls only or exclusively women, but it was, it was very much a process, the speaker takes on a role of it in a way of being the ambassador for the state and welcoming people into the State House, and I found one of, you know, I worked hard to be, to help girls and young women see themselves in the roles of the State House, but also that it was important for people to recognize that they don't have to have been decided to be a politician in order to serve in the State House, you know, constantly people would say to me, and of both genders, I can't serve in this, I would never run for election because I don't like conflict, I don't like speaking in public, I don't, you know, I don't know enough, and they would have this long litany, and I would say back to them, one, the role of being in the legislature is mostly about listening and working one-on-one with people. It's not about pounding the table and making important speeches. I mean, certainly there are wonderful speeches that have been made, but it's in the State House, but it is mostly about finding common ground and listening really hard for that common ground and finding a path forward through differences, and if you, if that's, those are the reasons that you and others stay out of the State House or don't run for election, then who does that lead, leave for running for office? The people who do like conflict, the people who love to hear themselves speak, the people, you know, who think they have all the answers, is that who you want as your politicians? I don't think so. Those of us who are turned off by politics as usual, it really matters that we join the conversation and run for office, and so I often found myself in those kinds of conversations with people. Right, yeah, so you had this show and as I mentioned would have legislators on to kind of parse out a conversation that was happening at the State House. Do any of those kinds of conversations on this show come to mind, any episodes or about, you know, certain issues where you had a conversation that, you know, I guess, stuck out or that you felt was, you know, captured the issue well? I can't say that I remember. In terms of specifically, you know, speaking in this context, I think the conversation that we were mostly having was around healthcare, that would, you know, and clean energy. Those were, I think, of those as leading. I mean, certainly there were also issues about the rural economy, access to broadband. I mean, there are familiar issues, you know, because balancing the budget, but making sure all Vermonters had access to high quality healthcare was you know, was high on the list. And in that second clip in 2008, that was where we were moving towards advancing from civil unions to consider marriage equality. And I had appointed, we had appointed a commission on marriage at that point, Senator Shumlin, who was the President and Pro Tem of the Senate at the time. And I had made that appointment and begun the conversation to look at, you know, where was it that civil unions were falling short and not serving our LGBT, you know, Vermonters well. And, you know, the legislation wouldn't pass until 2009, but certainly the conversation had begun. And so there's, there's the headlines, conversations, healthcare, clean energy, climate change. But there are affordable housing, you know. And then there's also the beginning to set the table for conversations that really still need to, that we know still need to happen. Right. So you chose to have this show, or you invited folks on to talk about these issues, fast forwarding now back into 2023, we're in a very different media environment. Where, if at all, do you see these kinds of conversations or the current iteration of these conversations that were happening on this show that you had playing out now with respect to the issues, a lot of which are similar to the issues or the same that was the issues that you were working on. Then are they on social media, you know, do you see them playing out more in other places? You know, what do these conversations look like now? What takes the role of, because it's frankly as much as I would love for it to be, you know, a robust, you know, a lot of public access TV shows, it's not, the current speaker doesn't have a public access TV show. And so where do you see the, you know, the opportunity for those conversations to take place now? Yeah. Well, the current speaker helped me set up those conversations because she worked with me at the time in the speaker's office. So, yeah, it's, I don't know, you know, I'm not, I do have a Twitter account. I do follow conversations on Twitter. But part of why I had those shows was my nature. I was, I had been a policy wonk. And I, you know, I used to have Peter Frane, who was associated with CCTV, used to constantly, I don't know what the right verb is, but I argue comes to mind or mentor me or, you know, if he could he would have strangled me to say, what's the one thing, you know, what's the one thing and what's the, that you want to have happen. And I would say, and what's the one important message? And I'd say, Peter, you know, there's a lot. I can't boil it down. And I don't know that it should be boiled down to one thing. But Twitter does make you boil it down to one thing. So I think that, you know, people need to be drawn in and hear the breadth of conversation. And I think that happens sometimes it's still there. You can hear it sometimes on public radio, you know, or whatever we're supposed to Vermont public. And, but I also think it whatever is happening is in libraries, at general stores, you know, legislators set aside time to listen to before town meeting or on town meeting. I know you can, you know, the legislators I follow are, well, I just was in Craftsbury and now I'm headed to, you know, Greensboro, Catherine Sims, or, you know, whoever it is, but they're there. That's what they do on that whole town meeting week is a lot of listening back in communities and, and try to help and they put out, you know, newsletters. They're not, they do that to invite people in to say this is a little more about what we're thinking about and why I, and I'd love to hear what you have to say. You know, it's, it's people are busy. So it's hard for people to weigh in. But it does when they do it really does matter. And, and I also, I think that when we have issues that are, you know, we had dealt with civil unions, we were moving towards marriage equality before civil unions, there had been, you know, really tough votes about making sure that gay and lesbian homeowners could adopt, for example, and become parents. And civil unions built on that. And then marriage equality built on that. And then gender identity, you know, it's, those conversations need to keep coming and they can feel, you know, we can feel it, what matters in those cases, I think, is for Vermonters to share their, have the courage to share their personal story and for Vermonters to have the courage to listen to stories that are beyond their own experience and that their life experience and realize what, you know, why some of these issues matter to people whose lives are very different from theirs. And that's the kind of listening that legislators do and they, and, you know, finding forums for pulling people in is really important, pulling people into the conversation. And my concern with, you know, social media is it, it enables us to go into our separate camps and speak to an echo chamber as opposed to speaking to people whose life experience or just opinions differ from ours and do it in a way that's civil and so that we can listen, both listen and talk. And that's a tricky battle, you know, that's just tricky balance. It's tricky. We're thinking about it all the time here as well as we figure out how to set up conversations that enable, you know, good listening and dialogue without, without causing anyone to be harmed or perpetuating any sort of systemic violence which there is a lot out there. But great. Thank you so much, Gay, for coming on this sort of experimental episode of the CCTV time machine. I think that's going to wrap it up for this episode. So thank you for tuning in. We hope that you'll join us again next time as we sift through the CCTV archives and revisit the moments and stories that built our communities in Vermont. Thanks so much for watching and have a great night.