 If we as fans say those two in just one example are identical absolutely Identical enough. Yeah, and I don't think they are. Yeah. Well, no. Yeah. Yeah I don't know. That's your opinion. Yeah, of course Yeah, if an honor has got his hand on the Tottenham player Hmm, and there is some let's be polite to the PG mob people, right? There's some cognitive bias against Everton that allows them to say six or one and half doesn't know the other I'm gonna sec. Yeah, right. I know where you are just this way. Yeah, go right. So so we then start saying to the officials right They're exactly the same We didn't get a penalty. They did and they're like me Not exactly the same and ever and fans are going. Yes, they are and it's crystal clear. They're not because you just look at two photographs It's crystal clear. They are well, that's your opinion, but I'm saying that's what I'm saying, right? Put the two photographs up on screen right now side by side and we could argue for the next 10 minutes You know whether they're identical or not, but at the end of the 10 minutes I'll be saying another and you will be saying that they are tell me what's not identical about that. Okay, right Pulling a shirt two arms out pulling a shirt two arms out I'm being really stupid here and excuse me if I'm being really stupid, right? But that picture there which has got our shirt on it It's took place in the game that you were a no, no. Yeah, so what come on? Yeah, yeah, where's the picture with the owner having his hand doesn't matter. It doesn't matter cuz that's yours Of course it's out Pedro who got was it Joe Pedro? Might have been Joe whoever it was Well, but whoever done the same as what owner did and then the action to move towards the ball The shape was ragged and that is what they are one was given and one wasn't given I get it But we we talk about this all the time if you take a freeze frame like or slow it down like DCLs, right? But that's what the bar look that okay But the pictures that were in the media immediately afterwards are the ones and I think ped knows this because we've had this debate before Where owner has got hold of the Tottenham player That they're both got hold of each other if you then allow that to progress for Two tenths of a second and an owner's let go but he's still got older the shirt and then you freeze frame and say there you go They're identical it's context, isn't it? You're gonna see the moving pictures Right, but they don't via. I don't use the moving pictures That's so they froze their picture where no not I had all of them and said it's six or one and a half That's that's the point of your day taken from the VA I think both of them Yeah, and that's the point that the penalty was awarded that I Could stop a million corners. I know right. I'm not disagreeing with you He's got all of it frozen two pictures and said I haven't frozen that website. I haven't frozen that website hasn't this was the thing that was up immediately This was the thing right? If you give your eyes don't tell you they're identical then I don't know what to tell you Let's leave it. Yeah, let's leave the audience will tell me now whether it was a penalty Okay, fair enough, but for the life of me, I'm not gonna go surfing the internet to find I haven't hang the sec to find I'm not saying you are One second. I'm not going to find a photograph with an owner with his arm on the Tottenham player Because I know it's there, but I'm not gonna look for it And then I could say well, we'll have that left-hand picture Number is that well beckers it? Who's number 18? Right If we then put up alongside That picture and then the one where Kuleshevsky and an honor a lot closer together and an honor's got his arm On the arm that he's got hold of the shirt Yeah, I'd say they're not identical and I talked to your audience and say go on they can decide and they'll conclude They're not identical because they're different photographs So it's all context-sensitive about what was happening in the moment and all I've picked you up on is the phrase they're identical I don't we're both penalties everyone in the comments is that identical looking at those pictures They will of course they will because those pictures are designed I'm gonna back away to someone on a shit here because my head's gone yet Well, I know but they were identical because and I'll tell you why they're identical because at the point where Kuleshevsky pulls The shit is the point where they decide it's a foul if we're grappling in the box They will go six or one after doesn't do that. I get that of course point Do they decide it's stopped being grappling and become a put so the minute Well, I'll tell you what the point is if we're standing on the balls then and I'm grabbing you and you're grabbing me It's both the minute I motion towards a ball and you yank my shit Yeah penalty right and that then pitches are both taken at the point Oh, no, I'm moved towards the ball and Danny well, do we know at what point they made the decision that was it because I'm watching the game at real time They're talking about it. They're talking the space game, right, and I was like that was a penalty It went whatever that and they got clean He never said mean he went back to it and whoever it was who was there was like that is a penalty Because oh no, I'm just moved towards the point we interact now. That's where it is Who said sorry, whoever the co-commentator was on the day People We didn't get it right right so you're saying to me Well, if you've got your hand on them, then they're both doing the same thing I get that if that's right They're not doing the same thing in that moment shit Okay, right if the ball isn't live, right? And I this is a real I don't agree with either by the way They hasn't kicked it so I don't have this hand on the Kuleshevsky wasn't in a non-live situation It was during the movements the play wasn't it the but no not when the ball coming because he's moving to get away And he's pulled if I'm moving to get away no play all the grappling goes on in the pre-court during and immediately after the corner doesn't it okay, so they never a penalty then How do you well? I say both of them are penalties. I'm just disputing that that identical Okay, because all right, it's the other one that if you like the attacking player never has a hand on the defender So they're not identical. There's no there's no rigging that yeah enough right in the game He did well, I don't know I don't go that's the point so you can't say it isn't identical Yeah, but I've put it but you show me a picture. Okay, you show me a picture there And are we gonna see Peds by the way the picture Okay, he hasn't got them pet so the one on the left right is a player where the defender? I guess that's the guy in the gray. Yeah. Yeah is facing in the same direction He's pulling him back. I he's moving away from him There's the one on the right the defender has clearly got hold of the shirt But the play defender is be the player and on it is behind him who's moving away Presumably because that's what's stretching the shirt right so we're getting up into it a hot thing about me I'm not getting into I'm not either. I'm not getting taught that they're identical I hope there's no difference that I don't think the ball is killing in in evidence corner Kuleszewski's gold side grabs all the one on it rags them down as the ball comes in Yeah, and then that one the balls killing out and well, that's okay Kuleszewski's not gold So that's why the angles look different. He's doing the same thing I get it and I said a few minutes ago I hope ten minutes ago that we could talk about for ten minutes at the end of the ten minutes You will say they are identical and I will say no, they're not right and the word is identical They're both penalties All I'm saying is when you get into the cognitive bias thing with referees, which what we're talking about which is why Baz and The fans forum have written to Howard Webb blah blah is there's a series There's a load of evidence here that something is going on with referees where they Were polite to them. We say they're cognitively biased against our team