 Okay, well, I'm going to call the meeting to order and we can get some of the early things taken care of. Call the meeting to order today is July 12 at 631 p.m. and because all of the members are appearing remotely, we will start out by introducing ourselves. I'm Jack McCullough, mayor. I'm Perry Brannum, district three. Donna Bate, district one. Della Alfano, district two. Lauren Hurl, district one. Hilling Cohen, district two. Okay, thank you. And I just got a message from the city manager that he's having trouble with his sound, so hopefully he'll be in business quickly. I'll take a moment to review meeting logistics. I usually say if you're appearing electronically, but tonight everyone's appearing electronically, please change your name display on your screen to your first and last name. So we have a record of anything you might say for the minutes. When you speak, again, please state your name and where you live. We ask that you keep your comments and questions under three minutes. And if you're speaking about a specific topic, keep your comments germane to that topic. Anyone who wishes to speak must be recognized by the mayor. And anyone who speaks out of turn discusses non-germane topic or exceeds the time limit may be asked to maybe interrupted and asked to adjust your comments or behavior. And Tim Heaney could want to state your name because we're all remote. Tim Heaney, district three. Great. Yes. So first item of the agenda is to approve the agenda. And I don't know if anyone can think of anything else that we might want to talk about today in addition to the printed agenda. Obviously, we'll plan to get through the printed agenda and we will also be talking about the flood and flood response. You know, it's on here. I'm sorry. OK, first, we'll start with general business and appearances. This is an opportunity for any member of the public to address the council on any topic that is not on the agenda. Again, limit your comments to two to three minutes. And Councillor Bate will assist us with the timekeeping. So you can raise your hand physically or you can indicate the raised hand raise hand feature on your on the zoom. And David Dobbs, I see you have your hand raised. So you're up first. Thank you very much, Jack. And thanks to the city council for having us. I am David Dobbs, a resident of the Meadow neighborhood since 1992. I want, first of all, to thank all the city workers and others who've worked so hard to support us during the flood, which is what I want to talk about. The employees and people in my place are stepped up wonderfully, which is no surprise. There's one area, however, in which I hope the city can improve its game in the next challenge of this sort. And that is the quality of the communications to the citizens who need the best information possible to decide how to take care of themselves. I offer these comments not to malign or criticize, but to provide feedback that will enable us all to do even better next time. I observed two communication shortcomings that greatly frustrated me and many of my neighbors here in the Meadow neighborhood and possibly endangered the public. Those were the communications about the level of the rights-filled reservoir and its implications. And separately but related, what possible evacuation routes existed as various roads were closed or flooded over. Regarding the reservoir level, the city's communications were both sparse and confusing. The first message early Tuesday morning was that a spillway release might be necessary, presumably to prevent the dam from overtopping. And this is allegedly, unprecedented event, would, quote, drastically add to the existing flood damage, unquote, and a way that would, quote, particularly be particularly bad along the North Branch corridor in downtown. In quote, that's I live in the North Branch corridor, as do several hundred other people, informed comments since then on various public forums by people experienced or versed in dam management, make it clear that this message contained several significant errors. In addition, the message added that unfortunately there are very few evacuation options remaining and that people in risk areas might want to go to their upper floors. As one of those at risk, I found this inadequate. First, I would have appreciated some idea about how high and fast the North Branch would run if the spillways was open, or at least some evidence the city had tried to get an informed answer to that question. Okay. Without it, I could only conclude the city had no idea how bad things could get. This alone was terrifying. Second, it was infuriating to be told there that there were few evacuation options, but not what those options were. Without any such information, my only option was to stay in a house that I'd just been told might be slammed with a wall of water. In addition, this is partly due to the fact that the city had shared nothing about which city routes were open or closed. The state did state manage roads, but there were no information about whether the streets in town were open or closed. I dearly hope that next time around, the city will prioritize two things. One, that it will learn more exactly how the dam will be managed in high water scenarios, and thus have on hand a more helpful description of how the various options might affect water flow and velocity. And second, that the city will give reliable notice as city managed roads are closed. Again, a huge thank you to everyone who worked so hard. I really appreciate it and look forward to all of us doing better next time. Thank you, David. Thank you. Anybody else, Bill? Yeah, I'd just like to comment on that. First of all, Dave, I understand your concerns very much and can appreciate that I'd like to offer a little bit of perspective on what happened and how and why. First of all, with regard to the roads being closed, we did rely on the state road closure network. We didn't want to duplicate efforts. So a good point that perhaps we could do it locally as well, but we were trying to be efficient. Second, we heard about this information at approximately 3 AM. There were a handful of us in the center. We reached the Vermont Dam Safety people, individuals. One of them was standing on top of the Waterbury Dam. They dispatched someone to the Wrightsville Dam, which we didn't get there until later that day. The information we shared came directly from the Vermont Dam Safety people, and we quoted them exactly as we were told over the phone. They sent us an inundation map and then told us that it was really dependent on how much water came over, how bad it was going to be. So we did have not reliable information. So we were left with either not saying anything and having this potential catastrophic event or sharing what little we did know to at least let people know. And I appreciate that it was incomplete, but we shared all the information that we had, including we asked them specifically for the calculation of how much water would come over. And they said, well, it depends how much water. It could be catastrophic if a lot of it comes over. And so I hear you loud and clear, but I didn't want you to know the context that we had. They eventually did get someone at the site sitting on top of the dam, and we watched them. And at the time we first talked to them, it was 17 feet below the dam. The next time we talked, the spillover, the next time we talked to them, it was eight feet below the spillover. When we sent the notice out ahead, gone to four feet. And we, and was all within about an hour and a half. And we then relocated our dispatch center from and our whole entirely emergency operation center from the police station up to the water treatment plant on the fly without losing a single dispatch call. And trying at the same time to keep on top of the dam information. Eventually they did have a person who eventually got to within one feet of the spillover and they could not assure us that it would not spill over. It did eventually stabilize and once we had that information we told people. So again, I'm sorry if it was incomplete. Those are the circumstances that we were operating under. Yeah, Tim. Jack, yeah, just follow up. I want to thank everyone in the city for all the assistance as well. It's been incredible. Tim, you're really hard to hear. Can you increase your volume? Let's see. Is that better? Not much. Not much? Well, hmm. Okay. Anyway, I'll try. But so basically what I'm doing is I'm going to sign off because I think with all of you here, you have a quorum. And I am still inundated in my life with this. We have nine properties that flooded and five we're still pumping out of now. And so I'm really working through it. I've got someone arriving shortly from out of state with more pumps for us. And as much as I wish I could participate tonight, I'm feeling like you've got a quorum and you can move forward. It's probably best if I sign off and say thank you. And I will check in after. Totally get that. And we're hoping for the best, but we certainly understand that. Thanks, Tim. Thank you. Take care. You too. Good night. OK. Is there anyone any other member of the public who wishes to address the council at this point? I'm not seeing anyone. OK, we can move to the next item, which is which is the consent agenda. We have one item in the consent agenda that I want to take off because it requires a little bit of explanation or discussion. That's item E regarding closure of Horn of the Moon Road. So is there a motion to is there anyone else who wants to take anything else off the consent agenda? Katana. No, I'd make a motion to accept the consent agenda with removal of B. And OK, any discussion? All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. And opposed. OK, let's we take let's take up item E. Yeah, can I just ask a quick question? I apologize. I was having sound issues briefly while you were opening the meeting. Did you did you add an item to debrief about the flood? Yes, and we didn't decide where we want to put it. Do you want to put it after consent? Yeah, I mean, that's fine. We have all our folks here. We were prepared for it. I just didn't I just want to be sure that that was still on. So I'm sure people like David and others would like to hear more information about what happened and we'd like to provide it. So yeah, so let's do it right after we finish this. So Corey, you're here to talk about item E. Yeah, so we spoke to the state representative for this maintenance project earlier today and they anticipate an impact to their overall project schedule, and we just wanted to propose that time training in which this road closure happens be extended through September. So they would have the ability to close the road from August 14th to September 29th. And they would work directly with us regarding any potential other projects in the area road conditions events. There's a holiday in there, so that would be taken into consideration. And this would just allow them some flexibility to get that maintenance project done. And so Corey, would the expectation be that it would be closed for that entire time or you're just thinking about flexibility for expanding the dates when it could happen? No, the closure would still be five days. And the five days is actually very generous for that work. But it would still be five days. It would just take place with that extended time frame. OK, great. Somebody wanted to move that with that proposed change. I have a further question. Sure. Corey, when you said it would take place during that. Time frame, five consecutive days. Yes, five consecutive days is within that time frame. OK, I'll make a motion to approve. Giving them the right for the closure for five days happening between August 4th and September 9th. Second, any further discussion? Yes, Lauren, just clarifying, did you say September 9th or 29th? Sorry, I was hoping it might have been broken up August 14th to September 29th. That's what I had to. So that's what your motion is, right, Donna? Yes. OK, all right. There's no further discussion. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. And you want to pose? OK, thank you. All right, let's move right to the after incident or mid incident report and debrief. And Bill, do you want to start? You're muted. Yes, thank you. First of all, let's thank the residents of the business community for people really by and large coming out and supporting the community. The outpouring today was really, really incredible seeing folks downtown trying to volunteer. We also really want to call out and thank our team. All of our folks, DPW was out there all through the flood. And then first thing this morning, cleaning up the streets. They're going to be out picking up the trash from the businesses. Public safety, you know, both police and fire had extra people on. Mind you, many of these departments had folks who could not get in because of road closures, even, you know, from their towns getting to work. So they were operating shorthanded or with the folks that they had on hand. And people without complaint were just doing extra time, extra shifts. Our whole emergency team got to have a lot of bonding overnight, that first night. And we were visited by Council Member Brown and the city clerk. And it was great to see them. It was a near pop by. It was really an intense situation with minimal people on duty. I want to, you know, it's tough to single any group out, but I really do want to comment on the dispatchers. They were just inundated with calls from people. I mean, everything from is this street open? Is this what's, you know, what's happening? How do I be all understandable calls? But they were completely inundated. And then, you know, a couple of times we went in to sort of say, hey, how's it going? And none of us could believe the level of activity that the two or three of them were dealing with and handling it with a smile and with professionalism. And then at some point in the evening, I can't remember exactly when Barry's dispatch went down. They got flooded. So we we and they they moved their dispatch and are two mobiliers. We were handling Barry's calls and mobiliar with a very dispatcher in our center and again, doing it without missing a beat in part because of planning efforts that have been made in the past few years by building bridges, by building the technology to do this sort of thing. And then, you know, apropos to the earlier comments, once we heard that there was even a potential of greater flooding, you know, that we had, we said, you know, if the worst case happens and the DM spills over, we really shouldn't be downtown because we are trying to provide basic safety services. So on the fly moved both dispatch centers to the water treatment plant in a way that did so without losing any calls. And then they continued to have just an enormous level of people. I kiddingly told our dispatch supervisor, Kerry McCool, today that I thought she was going to start getting her mail at the treatment plant because I don't think she's left since the situation started. But really hats off to everybody involved, but particularly our dispatchers. They really rose and varies too. They really rose to the challenge in a very difficult situation. And while this was all happening, you know, of course, we had all everything else going on, too. So it's kind of like one of those FEMA tabletop exercises where they challenge you and then they add something new and then you have to reach that challenge. Like, OK, let's just see where they can be at just anyway. That's my introduction. I think what the best thing to do would be just to go department by department, let them all report what they experienced and what their observations are. And then obviously take any questions and comments at the end. So maybe I'll start with Chief Norton, and now that I just said everything he wanted to say. Thanks, Bill. Yeah, Bill, you just stole my thunder, I guess. Yeah, I guess just a little status update for us. Our dispatch center still stationed up in Berlin. We just had the internet restored here. So that's a step in the right direction. We're struggling with our phone connection and connections to towers. It sounds like all those wires are still underwater someplace. So we hopefully get that resolved in the next couple of days. You know, I've set an ambitious goal to get back to MPD within 24 hours and still trying to get on that target. So we've got some plans to try and shift down here tomorrow morning. But that's something to the to the vendor being available to move our consoles back down here. So dispatch has been a been a tough go, but they've they've kept it going. So that part's really good. Our building took it pretty hard in the basement. So we've got that pretty well cleaned out. And yeah, we're just trying to get trying to get back here. Like I am. Or like. It's like planning is going to take my thunder next or like. Some of someone has. I don't know. Planning has me needs to be folks in the planning department. Could you mute yourself, please? Great. Thank you. Thank thanks, chief. Chief gallons can go next. If he's on, he may not be on. I'm on. I'm on. There you go. Super. Yeah, see you down there. Yeah, that's OK. The let me see if I can get a camera to come on here. There we go. OK, so the fire department, the night of the incident, what we did was we we had to evacuate our building. Obviously, we split our crews. We spent our scent half of our equipment and crews to the college and the other half. We staged a national life. We are currently back in our building. We still have a lot of water. Our basement has about three feet left in it. Three feet of water. As of about a half hour ago, we've been pumping for about a day and a half. It's pretty large basement. There was a lot of water. So we're still working on that. The main floor of the fire station, the apparatus floor has has significant damage. We had about four and a half feet of water in there. So we have a small dispatch area. Anyone who has been in there and recognizes in the back, there's a small dispatch area. There is a an EMT area where that's the we do all of our paperwork. It's a secured area because of HIPAA and the deputy chief's office is back there on the first floor. All of those offices were destroyed, the furniture in them, the counters, everything will need to be replaced in there. Along with, we'll have to remove probably four feet of sheet rock all the way around because it's soaked in water that has surgeon and things like that. So that's kind of an update on the building that we are back in it. And then I just want to quickly comment a little bit more on the Riceville Dam because I've gotten some questions today on it because we have some upcoming storms over the next three or four days. And the most recent from the National Weather Service that I received this afternoon was over the next three or four days because of it, we could see about an inch of rain. They're not expecting us to see much more than that. Possibly an inch and a quarter. And we all know that that can be dependent on, if a storm, a sun to shower builds and it settles over us, the numbers can fluctuate a little bit there. But this afternoon, just prior to coming to this, I visited the Riceville Dam and the water has receded now down. It's about a foot to me 14 inches below the top of the spillway. It's almost all back into the reservoir itself. There's still a little trickling going over the road. While I was there, I reached out to the Vermont Dam Safety Officer who we've been working with, Benjamin Green. I talked with him and he assured me that if we were to get some more big storms or something, they would be back out there. They would be on site and they would continue to assist us with that. But he felt confident. He had also visited the site today and he was also pleased that it had dropped down to about a foot below the top of the spillway. So I think that's probably it. Unless some folks have any questions. Great, thanks. Why don't we go through all everybody that will take questions? Is that Kurt Modica here? Yeah, there he is. I am, yep. Sure, so I'll start with the night of the incident like Chief Cowans did. Our staff was really focused on opening up drainways, getting water back in the ditches during the event to prevent extended damage to the roadways and properties. We also had debris building up on bridges. So we had some equipment go out on the bridges and remove some of that to allow the water to pass through and not spread out onto properties. And then the other major thing was really marking hazards as they developed a number of sinkholes all throughout town and then closing roads as they became inundated with water. So that was our primary focus in the night was to minimize damage and maintain public safety. After that, the crew essentially worked all through the night doing that. And then the next day we went to a split crew and started continuing with some of the similar work of getting water back into drainways and marking hazards. Today, we finally with the water receding we're able to start removing some of the silt and dirt from the roadways. We have completed the majority of the streets or a few left laying in an Elm Street are probably the biggest. The bike path that also has a lot of silt on it. The city of South Burlington provided two sweepers for us which was really a big help in order to try to get some of the dust down. We're not able to get it all. I'm sure everybody notices, but it is still dusty. And so it's such a fine silt that the equipment just can't pick it all up and there are many passes we go over with water. So that's gonna continue to be a problem likely until the rain comes kind of washes it into the drain. Unfortunately, it's really the only way it's gonna get cleaned up. As for the trash removal we have actually decided to go with a contracted service. We are gonna have that starting tonight and they will go through, likely through the night until tomorrow removing trash from the streets. We are also in touch with the state who is maintaining the FEMA eligibility for all the material and staff time that's going into this work. Right now they made it pretty clear that eligibility is limited to public property. So only within the right away that private property is not going to be an eligible expense with the exception of the trash removal. Tomorrow we're gonna start early again six AM the crew tonight is leaving shortly if they haven't already and then we'll start again at around six AM removing those last streets that I mentioned Langdon and Elm. We'll have the South Burlington Street Sweepers back again tomorrow. So we'll have three sweepers going. And I also should mention that the city of Burlington has reached out. They've already offered up a lot of equipment to other towns but they also offered technical expertise. So we have a number of slides properties areas that have experienced landslides and it's gonna take some engineering to determine the best way to permanently stabilize those. We've done some temporary measures with erosion, madding and some stone but we really wanna get the right design. So and they also have expertise on reimbursement process through the FEMA eligibility process. So plan to reach out to them likely tomorrow to start that assistance from the city of Burlington on the water system. We have issued a, as everybody knows a precautionary boil water notice. There's no known sources of contamination in the water but because there was just so much activity and so much floodwater over the distribution system we decided in discussions with the state that that was a good precautionary process to take. We've had a number of water service breaks. What I'm hearing from staff is that as water is filling up basements the oil tanks are actually floating up and breaking off services inside the buildings. I think we had almost 20 of those throughout today where we've been turning off service lines in order to prevent further damage in buildings as they are flooded from potable water but that water is under pressure so there's not really no risk to entering the water system because they're under full pressure. While all those leaks were happening I was stressing the water plant. So that was kind of maxing out the capacity and starting to cause some concerns for operators with regard to keeping up with the demand on the system. With those 20 or so services shut off we're almost back to normal flows. So I don't believe there's any major leaks or anything like that. So we are starting to get that under control with regard to the sewer treatment plant. There was no flooding damage experienced at the plant at the wastewater treatment plant which is really amazing. The waterways came right up over almost over Dog River Road up on the edge of it. And of course the river level was essentially that same height as the pipe leaving the plant. We had a staff member, one of our operators stay overnight at the plant to really watch everything and we ended up taking some measures to protect equipment but right now no major damage other than there was so much flow through the plant that the bacteria that is used in the process actually kind of washed through. So we've been getting bacteria from the wastewater plant in Burlington and getting that back up and running today. So it looks like that's in good shape at this point as well. I think those are the big items. Thanks, Kirk. Okay, oops. So the last piece that I wanted to go over is where we're at now. Lastly, one more thing on damage. City Hall has taken also taken a pretty big hit our downstairs was significantly flooded four or five feet in there. Those offices, the DPW offices, the planning offices are really gonna be out of commission for a while. There's a lot, we've got to sort through a lot of files that are wet and figure out which ones can be properly restored and which ones can be disposed of. We've got a lot of work to do. The upstairs in City Hall where I'm sitting now is being cleaned, it's been cleared to be used. And so that is up and functioning. So we will be slowly moving back here. Again, we had to move all of our operations to the water treatment plant or until late this afternoon. So that's happening. One of the major problems we're going to face and this is gonna be something we have to really conclude tonight but our elevator in City Hall which was already slated for replacement because it was old and damaged has been damaged sort of significantly by the water. It is not functional. So we can either spend tens of thousands of dollars to repair this old one or replace it as we plan to but under either circumstances it's gonna be a matter of months before we have a functioning elevator. And that means that has implications for accessibility. So those are things that again, we just learned this today. So we will be tracking that down for the future. We don't know what the obviously we wanna be as accessible as it can be to all people and we don't know what the rules are in terms of when an incident like a flood causes this inaccessibility whether things can continue to happen. Obviously we're thinking about theater we're thinking of any number of other things and then whether we would continue to have to have our meetings like this or other things and how we can provide services to people who are unable to access our building how do we come out and meet them? Those kinds of things. So that's top on our minds right now. The other piece of that is obviously just getting our city services back up and running. We've really had to suspend everything the last couple of days. Again, a lot of people just can't get in. We had no internet, we had no computer systems. As you've heard other people say that is just coming back now. We're not sure exactly how it's gonna look. So we're still trying to figure out how to get our various offices. I think as you heard our DPW and our public safety folks are pretty much back. So we are doing the key frontline things but we need to eventually people are gonna wanna check their property record card and sign up for a rec class and all the kind of things that we do. So we need to get that fully functional. So that's one track that we're working on. The other track obviously is the community track and we've partnered with Montpelier Alive, Alec Ellsworth, Kelly Murphy have really been the key people on that. Connecting is the city representatives. Peter Walk is a volunteer has just kind of taken this over on his own volition with our permission of course and is just doing a fabulous job. So we have over 1,200 volunteers right now. There's a great system in place for people to sign up online and choose sign up four times and locations that they can go to help. It's all being matched up. There's a tent at the end of Main Street where you can see the Montpelier Alive tent where people can go in and sign up and find out what they need. We've been going around talking to all the businesses to find out what their needs are. Many of them do want volunteers, but not necessarily yet. They're still sorting out what they need. Some of them are still waiting for insurance adjusters. So that's where that's at. We're in addition to the efforts to just clean the streets and all those kinds of things. We're trying to figure out what we need. So we've got our own city operations. We've got our community rebuilding going on. Again, Montpelier Alive can't say enough about them as a partner. And then our communications person, Evelyn Primm has been posting note updates every two hours to various outlets just so, and sometimes there's a lot to say, sometimes there's not much, but just so people can be staying in touch with what's going on. So that's where we're at. Kelly, am I missing anything? All right, yeah, well, Kurt mentioned that. So we will be having, as Kurt mentioned the trash hauler downtown tonight to start picking up things, which is great. I know that the merchants in, we have had questions about residential trash pickup for those that are in flooded areas that got flooded basements. We will be doing that. It will, due to this pure volume of trash, we're gonna try to take care of the downtown first. So, people may have to hang on and put it on their lawn for a week or so. We will communicate about that, but it will be after the sort of large volume of trash is picked up in the downtown. I think that's all, but obviously if you have more questions or we've sent something out. So at this point, I don't think, is there anybody else from our team that wants to report that I missed? Bill, you didn't miss me, but I do have one other thing. Sure. And it is a follow up to a question we got late this afternoon from one of the merchants. That's about inspecting of the properties. We, today we got started, any property that got flooded, commercial property, stores, restaurants that got flooded had water. They do have to be inspected by the state and by the state electrical inspector. So this morning we got started at eight o'clock. Michelle, our billing inspector, Michelle Savry and the state supplied us with 10 inspectors, four electrical inspectors, one plumbing inspector and five life safety inspectors. And they started working through the downtown today. They did not complete it. They got about halfway through. So if your store, your restaurant, something didn't get done today, we'll certainly try and get to you tomorrow. And if it gets to be late in the day and we haven't gotten to you, please reach out. Please reach out to myself or you could call Kelly, let us know. And we will, I'll find one of the inspectors and we'll get to your property. So it's a long process, it takes time. Some of the buildings we couldn't get into today because there was still water in the basements or somebody wasn't there, but we do have and we will again tomorrow have 10 state inspectors on site and we're gonna try and finish up all of the properties tomorrow. Thanks, Chief. Yes, Eric. Yeah. One thing I didn't mention is that we had a pretty nice gentleman on a Massachusetts call and donate us a generator and a couple pumps. So if there's any need, we went door to door and it seemed like everybody had what they needed we do have a generator here and we do have a couple of pumps if they just called the police department we're happy to get those out and get them to people that need them. So. Great, thanks. We'll start with members of the council. Carrie. Sorry. Thank you. Like I've just got a weird message on my Zoom. So I just wanna thank everybody working in the city. I can't even express how amazing it is the work that you all have been doing and the behind the scenes work I'm not sure that people really understand what's been happening behind the scenes that the stuff that the public doesn't necessarily see but the sleepless nights and the constant work that you all have been putting in and the incredibly positive attitudes that you all have had has just been amazing and it's really come through to me and to my family and it's been, it has buoyed me. So just to get a little personal about this I live on St. Paul Street and my house has been here since before the Civil War and it made it through the 1927 flood which I wasn't here for but my neighbors tell me that it didn't, it did not flood in 1992 and it didn't flood in Irene and we've just have been able to be very complacent about feeling like our house is good, our house is fine and our house ended up in the river and we weren't really completely prepared for that and it was one of the more frightening things that I've ever experienced and then knowing that we were already basically sitting in the river and that the dam might not continue to contain the water was terrifying and so we're still pumping out our basement, our basement pretty much completely filled up with water. Thank goodness it didn't come into the house but we're still pumping it out, we're still trying to figure out what to do with all the stuff in the basement. Our neighbors are all in the same boat and so it's, I'm so grateful to all the work that the city employees have been doing and I'm glad that it's gonna continue happening. So a couple of the questions that I've been getting from my neighbors are about the trash pickup. So I would love just a little bit more detailed information about kind of, are there sort of limitations to the kind of stuff that will be picked up? Bill, you gave some good information about kind of when we can expect to have that picked up which is helpful and that's why I've been telling people is that they're prioritizing downtown but don't worry it's gonna come here but are things like furniture and appliances or should it be bagged up, that kind of stuff would be helpful to get a little bit more detailed information about that and then also there are, it's great that there's so many people who wanna volunteer to help with the cleanup and I'm very sympathetic to prioritizing the businesses downtown, I agree with that and that there are also a lot of just regular old people in their homes out here in the neighborhoods who are overwhelmed right now and I know that there's so many people who wanna help and so I wanna make sure that those connections get made as well and that we just don't forget about the folks in their homes who could use some help schlepping stuff out of their basements or cleaning stuff off or connecting with professional cleaners or if they, their hot water heater died or their furnaces needs to be checked out that they are assisted with kind of finding, connecting their weight of those resources to do that and so I'm happy to help in whatever way I can if I have information to pass on to people who are in the same boat as I and my family are and yeah, so I'm just looking forward to more of that detailed information. If I could just quickly respond, thank you for your kind words, Council Member Brown. The trash pickup is a work in progress as you've heard, even just tonight we've changed plan, it was all set that the DPW themselves are gonna do the pickup in the morning and now we've arranged for contractor to do it tonight. So I think all we really know about the residential pickup is that we're going to be doing it, we will communicate with people, I think bag would be great. Kurt, please jump in if you disagree, I think for the most part, if the same kind of material that's out on the street from the businesses furniture should all be okay, but if you disagree with that, that should be a problem, obviously anything that's correct. With regard, I have a great point about the need for volunteers in more than just businesses and we'll talk with the folks that are courting this, I can't imagine why if you wanted to get on the list of that needs people, there's a lot of people that wanna help and right now are being told there's no place to go. So I can't imagine that some folks that wanna help somebody wouldn't go to somebody's home and help them muck out their basement or do whatever needs to be done. So we will see if we can get that. And so the system, there's a system where people can go online to sign up to help and then you can either call that number or go along yourself to request help. And so it's kind of match.com for cleanup. And so we will see if we can, I don't know why a residence wouldn't be included, but we'll get that word out tomorrow for sure. Yeah, and just a quick follow up on the trash. So the contractor is gonna have like a garbage truck. So there're gonna be some limitations on what they can get, but DPW will follow up on the bigger items. So it just may be in stages, not all at once, but we do plan to take everything that's been blood damaged. Great, thanks, Lauren. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, first of all, just echoing the really incredible gratitude from me, from so many people in the community I was hearing from were just kind of amazed and just know that everyone, I think there was so much recognition of how much work was going into keeping everyone safe. I mean, the fact that, you know, we didn't have any major loss of life or anything. I mean, it's just a testament to the incredible work that you all did. And so I'm just so grateful and the work going into trying to minimize the property damage for the city and for the community. So just first of all, both so grateful. Also, it's been so wonderful to see people stepping up. I mean, 1200 volunteers, like that's such an amazing percentage of our community have like already filled up that form. It's really impressive. And I know I've just seen it in my neighborhood and you know, I'm up on a hill, but a lot of people's basements got flooded and like everyone's out just lugging stuff out of basements and lending things. And so just thanks to the community for also stepping up. Couple of thoughts. One, but like one of the main pieces of feedback I was hearing was people just like, I wanna know what's happening and like the communication was like, I thought good. I really liked when it switched and you had the idea to do just the regular four hour updates. And so, you know, I think like starting that even sooner if we have an incident like this again, I think just people knowing that they like when they could expect to get another update was a great idea. So I think that was a really good approach that we could probably implement again in the future. Just a couple of questions, but I'll just ask them all. So you can just be done with me. But one, it would just be helpful to better understand like how much we know about and maybe it's just not much yet and we'll just continue to learn about this. But like, what do we know about FEMA eligibility? Like just trying to like wrap our heads around how much scope of this is actually even eligible for reimbursement. Like as we think about like the year ahead and the projects and things like how are we recalibrating our thinking knowing that we have now this huge amount of work to get our community back in shape and rebuilt. So anything you know about that would just be helpful to hear like a little bit more about what that's gonna look like. And then, and similarly, I know that there's been a lot of like front porch forum chatter and stuff but it might be helpful to put up links for people to understand how I know that, or my understanding is that it's not yet eligible for individual property owners to access FEMA but either links to how people can learn more or just knowing that they're kind of doing it the right way so they can get potential reimbursement later because there were a lot of questions. We might be able to put some resources up on the city website to help people get the right information. I was also thinking about maybe, and this could be just some future meeting but it might be good to just hear from someone from DEC about the rights-filled dam and just understanding like if this happens, when we have another flood then what could happen? And so it's not just such an unknown for all of us into David's point earlier, like just better understanding like what are the potential implications and what might we expect and like how should we be thinking about that as a potential force in the community. And my last question was just if it turns out that we do need to keep the boil water notice on or there's ongoing drinking water issues that we find. First of all, thanks to Lawsons for bringing water today. That was awesome. Just hoping there's some kind of plan that like we'll be able to get people clean water if it turns out that we need to. But again, just deep gratitude to city staff like the effort has been curculean and so grateful. Thank you. We will certainly follow that up with FEMA. We've been chasing that down ourselves. We did get a huge amount of reimbursement in 2011 so we have some experience with that. Sarah LaCroix, our finance director is really digging into that now and we will get information out. As I said, right now they've even told us it's only immediate repair. We can't, so say a road washout. We fortunately didn't have that much of that but if it did, we can only repair it. Right now we can't rebuild it. At some future time, we can then ask for funds to rebuild it but they said don't do full, it's really kind of the patch up stuff, the real immediate response. So we are tracking that. We've been tracking that since the beginning. We've known this from the past, every bit of overtime, every cost we've incurred we're tracking so that those are reimbursable costs. Obviously we will learn more. With regard to the dam, I think that'd be great to do to get some more information. I do want to say this and I do think I made a mistake on this too. The dam did what it was supposed to do. The dam did what it was supposed to do. It was designed for the 100 year flood, the 27 flood. This was 23, so almost 100 years later and it contained the water. It didn't breach, it's in great shape. There's no problems with the dam. It just was the volume that it could spill over. And I do think Jeff Cueto on Frontpunch Forum really provided a lot of technical information which was helpful, which we didn't have at our disposal at 4 a.m. And so it is, if it had gone several feet over it would have been bad, if it had just trickled over it would have been so. We could certainly provide that information but I think that we also need to take away that it was designed to prevent floods in downtown Montpelier and it did just that, it held a lot of water. I think one thing we learned is it's a 68 square mile watershed that feeds into that dam that it's holding back and then trickling out at its normal pace. So a lot of water was coming in and so. Okay, thanks. So. I just had another question about the dam unfortunately. I'm just still not clear. At one point I thought I heard you say Bill that when you first checked on the water level it was like 18 feet from the spillway and it ended up at 12 inches from the spillway. And apparently it's still close to 12 inches from the spillway. And I understand the spill is not a breach. But what I'm wondering is as I do the math the area got seven inches of rain, a little bit more and the dam rose 18 feet or 17 feet and we're expecting an inch of rain in the next two days as I do the math, that spells spill to me if it doesn't go down. So let me walk that back a little bit. Okay, great. Thanks. First of all, the dam is designed to take more and more water as it gets closer to the top. You know, so it's like a, it gets wider, has wider ears. It's, you know, it's not an inch for inch situation. Secondly, you know, you heard Chief Gowens give you an estimate of what he eyeballed and not that the chief can't measure but the other measures we were giving you were from gauges. So I don't, we would have to check the gauge to really make the comparison. You know, I think it's one thing to eyeball it and say it's about a foot or a foot in apple of the spillway. So I think, you know, the gauge may be in a, in a different place. So we may be measuring it from a different location but all the folks that are involved with the dams that have inspected it and all assure us that there's plenty of storage storage for an inch of water. Okay, so that, that's what I want to, you're correct, thank you very much. Bill, while you're talking about gauges, I've had people ask me this question, you know, we've all gotten painfully familiar with that gauge where 15 feet, 17 feet and people have asked me, well, where is it? Where, where is that measured? I think people would be interested in knowing that. Chief Gowens, you want to answer that? Sure, you can actually see it. If you cross, if you're crossing the dam and you get out towards the further end of the road and you look down into your left, you'll see there is, it looks almost like a, maybe like a chimney, a curved chimney. The gauge is in there. So it's measured on the dam end. If you go out that way, you'll see it. Okay. It doesn't look like a gauge, but the gauge is in that. Are you talking about the Riceville Dam gauge, Chief? Or the, the regular river gauge? No, the Riceville gauge. The question I think was about the regular river gauges. Where are those, the 15 feet, the 17 feet? Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, so the Langdon Street, well, Sarwood Langdon Street or the North Branch, that is, if you walk across the Langdon Street Bridge and you get almost to the parking lot for the sheriff's department, the gauge is right there. It's right there. That's where it is. For the, the Wunuski gauge, or we call it the cemetery curve gauge, almost across from the cemetery as you're driving out, you'll see a small green building on the river side. It's in there. So the, the Wunuski gauge is in that building. It's almost across from the cemetery, the beginning of the cemetery. If you drive out that way, you can't miss it. You can see it from the street. Thanks. I'm sorry. Yeah. And the Riceville gauge is, you can see that also if you're driving across the dam. Mm-hmm. Great. Thank you. Jordy Patterson. Hi, thank you, Jack. I have a question about the building inspectors that I think Chief Gallans was talking about. I was wondering if the churches in our community are included in those inspections. They will be, yes. I talked with the inspectors today and they're broken down into categories. And that's specified by the state. So they were working through their list. And they, so today they were doing, trying to think restaurants, some type of commercial properties. I know establishments that sold food, not restaurants around the list. So they have a list they're working down through, but they will get to the churches. Great. Thank you. Evelyn. Hey Evelyn Pym, communications coordinator for the city. I just wanted to take a second. Thank you for your great work at keeping the information coming flowing. Oh, thank you so much. It's been the challenge that we have all risen to. And I just wanted to take a second since everybody is in the same virtual room here to just thank everyone in the city's team and the community for navigating this together. This is the first time that the city of Montpelier has gone through a major crisis with a crisis communications plan in the works. And I just wanted to thank the crisis communication team that we have assembled that have really triaged and navigated communications coming in and out between the city, the state and news media and the community members and businesses. So there was at one point also to echo Carrie's point of the behind the scenes information and also to give a shout out to one of the rarer benefits of social media. There was a one point where I live in Middlesex and my house was completely surrounded by water and my family and I were trapped in our house for a few days. And at some points during that time I only had access to Facebook. So my internet was down. I was not able to log into the city's servers to access our work email or and I wasn't able to get on the website. And so Facebook was actually the only way I was able to stay in contact for a few hours. And so I just wanted to thank everybody for their patience and their resilience and just being able to go bounce around with the flow and adapt kind of on the fly. And so that it ended up being a really important resource and I connected with community members around the clock pretty much for the past couple of days just making sure that every question and every outreach that came to the communications team was answered and responded to in as timely a fashion as possible. So just again, thank you so much to all the department leaders who kept me informed. So then I was able to pass along that information to our community. Thanks Evelyn. Any other members of the public who want to have anything they'd like to add to this discussion? Obviously it's not the last time. We'll be talking about this. Okay, I'm not seeing any other hands raised. So I think we can move on. I just want to add my voice of appreciation to everything city employees are doing. It's just been an incredible challenge and those of us who've been downtown and know how bad it's been over the last couple of days can just picture, can just get a small taste of what our city employees have been dealing with for the last two days and gonna come much more in the future. And so I think everybody has done a great job. One of the things that I particularly appreciate is that in order to get the word out about what's going on in Montpelier to people across the state and across the nation, I've done a lot of press interviews and media appearances and I've been regularly checking in with Bill and Kelly and Mary and Evelyn and saying, well, okay, what do I say about this? What do I say about that? And the information that I've been, they've been right there with the information that I've needed. And it's just again, a demonstration of how professional and knowledgeable the people in every single department of city government are. And so if you don't need to be on for the rest, any other part of this government in this meeting, you guys can get some rest. Thank you for being here. Okay, moving on to appointment to the public art commission. We have one appointment for Jodi Brown to join the public art commission. Donna, you look like you're saying something. Is Jodi here? I just wanted to go ahead and nominate her. Does she be a great asset? Yeah, I don't see her on the list. Is there a second? Second, I agree. Any discussion? All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Thank you. Anyone opposed? Okay, congratulations and thank you, Jodi, for volunteering to take this on. Next up, item seven. One 10th State Street. Bill, we start with you on this one, I assume. And so 110th State Street is a state-owned building. It's across from the deli, the new Mexican restaurant in across from the pavilion, the corner of state and Taylor. The state is seeking to sell it. They apparently decide they do not need it as a state asset any longer. And some of you may recall that during the legislative sessions, the state provided a right of first refusal to the city, gave us, I think, to August to indicate whether we were interested in pursuing this. And then if we are, then we have, I think, till town meeting time to raise the funds to actually buy it. And frankly, and we talked about this a lot during the legislative session and I communicated this to the legislature. I mean, I think really that should be there. The practice for any time the state disposes of any property in any community is to give the local government the first crack at it. But be that as it may, it is specifically in legislation that we have a right of first refusal. The mayor had asked that this be on the agenda to begin the conversation of whether we want to pursue that or not. And that really is, I think, an open conversation. I will say that we did talk to our city staff and we don't have an immediate need for it for city services, not to say that there aren't public good or public services that housing or whatever that it might be good for. But in terms of a need for delivering city services, we don't see it as an essential need. But without, I'm gonna turn that over to you folks for your conversation. And the relevant dates are October 15th. We need to let the state know that we intend to exercise our right of first refusal. And then we would need to submit a written offer by June 1st of 2024. And so even informing them in October that we have the intention to do that doesn't commit us to doing it, but we're obviously a long way from being there. And so I'll open it up to discussion or questions. Yeah, Lauren. I don't think I've ever been inside. Is it just all offices inside? Or what has it been used for historically? Yeah, I think it's offices that is consistent with my question, Bill, has anyone from the city had a chance to go in and look it over? We haven't, but we haven't pursued it either. I think if there was an inclination that there was interest, we would probably then do a more thorough search of it and probably talk to the state what they were expecting for financial remuneration, but we haven't put a lot of effort into it. If there's no interest in it, then we have other things to do, but we would be happy to follow it up if that was your wishes. And Carrie, I saw you had your hand up. Yeah, just I have been in that building a couple of times and it is offices, but it's sort of, I don't think it was built as an office building. And so it's a little funky inside, kind of chopped up into offices. And I sort of theoretically like the idea of maybe we buy it and we partner with somebody who can turn it into housing and it becomes affordable housing or, but without a clear vision and a plan and partners identified and all of that, I would be hesitant to proceed on that. So if that were to emerge over the next couple of months, I'd be really interested in talking about it, but without that, I think we just, we have a lot on our plate already. Lauren. Yeah, I'm kind of feeling the same way. I mean, I don't know if there's a way to kind of spark a conversation with potential partners or something like some other entity that might take it up if they're, I mean, it'd be great if it was able to be put to some public good like housing. I don't see us taking that project on in this moment, given what we're dealing with. But I don't know if this timeline gives us some way to host a conversation of, does anyone have any creative ideas or capital or something that they would wanna pursue it, that we could partner with somebody else doing the work, for example, but otherwise my inclination also is just, it's not the right time. Okay, thanks, Naisal, Donna, and then Sal. Well, I think I heard right. You said we don't have to decide until October. Yeah, that's- That I would like, I mean, we won't find partners unless we're interested enough to go looking. And so I'd like to at least use August, September to think about it, consider it, and have a chance to view it and explore some conversations with developers. So I'm interested, at least looking at it. Okay, Naisal? Yeah, I echo what Donna just said. I think we ought to look at it. And I wonder if we, if we, almost regardless of our conclusion for our purposes, if we couldn't put out a request for proposals from potential developers to see what other interests there is in the building that might meet city needs as well for things like houses. I know these buildings are often difficult to convert, but it's, the location alone makes it worth looking at, I think. Josh, you're here, Naisal. So you turned your camera on. Do you have any thoughts about this? Don't mean to put you on the spot, but I kind of am, I guess. Yeah, that's all right. Yeah, I mean, I think it is a really interesting building and it's right downtown. And I think there is some potential there. So I think, if we have the capacity to have some productive conversations with developers over the next couple of months to gather some information, putting out a request for interest for developers might be really valuable to see if there's something there. So I would, yeah, I would like to pursue that. And the question, if we have the capacity, we're pretty much looking at you, right? Yeah, I mean, so yes, but I mean, we're having conversations about other projects, other development opportunities in the downtown. So it's just another property. So I think we'll be able to handle that. Okay. Any other thoughts from members of the council? Any thoughts from members of the public knowing that it's very conceptual at this stage? Okay, are we satisfied or do people think it's okay? For the city to explore it a bit to see if there's a potential use? Thumbs up, thumbs down. Do we need a formal motion? I'd be happy to move that we explore the potential use of the building. Okay, and there's motion in a second. Jody Patterson, I see you've got your hand up. I was just gonna say, it sounds like it's worth pursuing finding out something about just to encourage the council to consider it. Thank you. Thanks. Okay, any other discussion of the motion members of the council before we go to vote? All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Good. Okay, we don't have to do a roll call. Next up, we're item eight, 12 to 16 Main Street. And I think that's me. Let me just tee it up for you, Josh. And then I'll hand it right off to you. So city acquired 12 to 16 Main Street as part of the 61 Taylor, the Transit Center project. It was all purchased for potential transportation use with the road going through there. With the idea that that time is gonna be a land swap with Montpelier Beverage, who was the property owner adjacent to that. They were gonna buy this land so they could build a new building. They actually had permits for a three-story building which was retail on the first floor and I think offices on the upper two floors. That deal didn't go through. It kind of died on that closing. They just decided they wanted to sell us their land and not acquire the other property. As a result, it became that this property really wasn't necessary for the, it was necessary for the transit project if we were gonna do the land swap. It was considered excess. So the city has purchased the paid out the state for their share of the land. So now we own it outright with no, no encumbrances with the state. And the council about a year ago indicated their desire to sell the project to a private developer with the preference for housing, ideally affordable or a mix of affordable housing and potentially retail on the first floor if that made the building work better. Since that time, our planning office has been sort of working on all that needs to happen to get that to go. And I think Josh is gonna walk us through what they've done and what needs to be done and where we go next. And obviously it's, nothing is final until we finally sell it. So if the council, if this group of council members wanted to reconsider that decision, you would have that opportunity to do so. But if you don't, we're proceeding in that direction. So with that, here's Josh. Thanks, Bill. Yeah, what we've been doing, working with D&K to get a new plat finalized for that lot line adjustment that we would have to do. So where we are now is we're done revisions of the final plat, we're just waiting for the actual final version to be delivered from D&K. There's still a couple easements that we would need. One of them being a pedestrian easements between the 12 to 16 parcel that we would be created and the building that's right next to it that has the drawing board in it. Because that alleyway right now would be the pedestrian walkway from Main Street to the parking lot. There's also another easement that we would need to have, which would be conveyed to any potential purchaser. And so after talking with DPW and council, it was advised that we not do an easement to the city, city to an easement to itself, but just wait until somebody was identified as a purchaser. So there's also some environmental work that needs to happen because part of that parcel did not go through Brella and the environmental assessment previously. So we need to enroll the other piece of land that's in essence merging to create this new parcel. So we need to enroll that in the state's Brownfield reuse revitalization program, Brella program, and we'll have to work with a consultant to get a corrective action plan identified. In order to do that, we need to have the use of that parcel known. So there's a little bit of a chicken and egg. We don't exactly know what the final use is gonna be. So we think that putting out an RFP to a developer, just sort of like identifying that, identifying a timeline, and we would enroll in Brella and just work with to identify somebody knowing that we can't finish the Brella process until we know what the actual use is gonna be. So that's where we are at this point. Josh, can you tell us what Brella or Brella is that you're talking about? Yeah, Brella stands for Brownfield's Reuse and Environmental Liability Limitation. So program, so that in essence, it relieves the municipality if that parcel goes through an environmental assessment and there are contaminants found on the parcel. So it protects us. So we did the exact same thing for Country Club Road Property last year, we enrolled that in the Brella program. It's pretty standard. It can take some time though. And so, and this one's a little different because this is a lot line adjustment. So we're merging, which used to be two separate parcels together, which one of them already has gone through Brella or already has a corrective action plan associated with the former Montpelier beverage sites. And so we're in essence, we have to merge two of these Brella programs together, two reviews together to come up with another corrective action plan. So it's gonna take a little bit of work working with the state. And have you heard any, have you had any contact or heard from any potential developers who say, let me at that lot, I know what I wanna do with it if I could on it? I have not, to be honest, I haven't heard from any developers about it. I know that the word is out there a little bit, but without having a surveyed plat to sort of show them what the actual parcel size and limitations might be, it's really hard for them to really garner any interest. So this final plat being ready imminently is gonna help us really determine that. I just follow up on that too, if I could, Mr. Mayor. Again, don't wanna deal in any windows or hearsay, but I will say that one of the partners in the original land swap was gonna be a swap to the former popular beverage owner and another partner. That partner has continued in pretty steadily reiterated to me their interest in the property. So there's at least one credible person who's interested in it, there may be more, but I've had that one regular expression. Great, thanks. Any questions by any members of the council? Sal. Yeah, are there any, what are the limitations on that parcel? It sounds to me like it's in the floodplain. Are there height limitations or anything like that? I think Mike can correct me if I'm wrong. I think that is in a zoning district that has a 65 foot height restriction, so which I think is our maximum. Mike, if you're- Yeah, I think it's a six story maximum, which it is in that district, but I think logically it's a pretty small lot. It probably isn't gonna be more than three stories at that location. And does the city have any control over what gets built there? Well- Can we arrange it such that the city has some control over what gets built there? Yes, we can. Yeah, we would, because we're the seller, it's the same logic as the Country Club Road site, because we control, we're the owner of the site, we can ask for proposals to purchase the site. And I think that the council has said they'd like it to be housing with potentially, ideally all housing or housing with one floor of retail, if that's what it takes to make the talk. So we would ask for proposals for that outcome. Thanks. I had a question. I thought we already voted to do an RFP with housing as a priority. Did that go out and we got no response, so we need to renew it? No, no, Donna, that is the current policy of the council. I think what you're getting is the update here about what needs to happen, what has happened and what needs to happen before we can issue that and that we're at this stage. So I think we're checking in to make sure that you're still- We still wanna do it. Yes. Okay, all right. Yes, thank you. I definitely do, thank you. Yeah, me too. Anyone else on council? Those of us with long memories might recall that there was a time many years ago where a developer wanted to buy that parcel and put a 14 story building on it because for some reason, he thought it would be a good idea to have the number of stories match the number of counties in Vermont. And of course that didn't- Any questions or comments from members of the public? Okay, I think that's all you need from us, right? Thank you. Okay, thank you. If your policy isn't changing, we will continue as directed. And if we take action to change the policy, it hasn't changed. So we're good, thank you. Up to item nine, it says waste water system update. Okay, I think that's gotta be a typo because we're talking about water system update. Correct. We will let the water flow directly to Public Works Director Kurt Monika, who I'm gonna give him a little advanced cover is operating on not much sleep. But we offered him a chance to bow out, but he said, no, he's ready to go. So thanks Kurt. And let's give them the latest of where we're at. Yes, thank you, Bill. Just real quick before I get into that, the preliminary engineering report, that's what we're gonna talk about tonight. On the boil water notice, Lauren had a question earlier about that. So the state of Vermont, I spoke with the division director today about the boil water notice. They are going to be releasing guidance, recommendation on increased sampling before we lift that notice. I was hoping to get it today, I have not received it. So we are holding off on taking our required samples to lift the notice because they're going to require additional parameters to be sampled that are not typically sampled to lift the boil water. So typically it's a cold form. So bacteria sample is the only thing required because of the flooding, they are likely going to ask that we also sample for like the VOCs of like a petroleum type contaminants and an inorganic compound. So a number of other things, so nitrates associated with fertilizer. Again, strictly precautionary, we don't have any reason to believe that there's any sort of contamination like that in the water system. But as a result, that is going to prolong the boil water. And at the earliest at this point that we will be able to lift it will be Friday, assuming we get that guidance tomorrow and are able to take the samples. So just a quick follow-up on Lauren's question for that. So on the preliminary engineering report, this is just an update on where we're at. So in May, the state of Vermont as well as our consultant and DPW came to council and discussed our draft report and the comments that the state provided. We have since had a number of discussions with the water supply division, really asking them to provide more guidance on what is the direction, what is required to get acceptance of the report. And we had some back and forth on that. And then at the end of June, we did get some good clarity on what they are looking for in order to get the report in acceptable form. And there are really three things they're asking for. The first is a revision of the priorities. Well, first, I guess the most important piece is that they have said that they're not going to require pressure reduction in the water system in order to accept the report. That was really what we needed guidance on in order to make the final revisions and submit 100% engineering report. If you remember, it was the consultants and DPW's position that that pipe replacement is the best approach as opposed to pressure reduction. And the state has said they will accept that with three things amended in the report. So the first thing is a revision of the priorities of pipe replacements. So we had presented a mix of replacing areas with deficient hydrants, hydrants that when you open them, the pressure drops too far, as well as areas that we have a high number of breaks in. They have really asked us not to focus at all on the areas that are undersized for hydrants and really to focus solely on areas where we have a high number of breaks. And we agree with that. Our initial thought was that they wanted us to have a sort of mixed approach, but with that clarity, that's great. We also are able to resolve that deficiency through restricting the outlet on the hydrants. So there's less flow and therefore less drop on the pressure. So we can really deal with both of those issues with the focus on the investment on areas that break, that we have a high number of breaks. So that's the first item. The second is the schedule. So in our initial 90% plan, they calculated that we were proposing about 2% of the deficient lines to be replaced. Out of a total of 11% that are currently beyond their useful life. So this part might be a little more challenging for a number of reasons. One is staffing capacity and another is funding. Those are kind of the two primary challenges that we'll face. But that said, we are working on a plan to try to do the whole 11% over the next five years. Our consultant has presented some preliminary numbers on that and that reflects a 7% increase on rates over the next five years, a $6 million investment on the pipes. And if we're able to do that, then that would result in a 40% reduction on all a boil water notices within the city. I have not vetted that out yet. Check the numbers and looked at if that's achievable and how it ties into the master plan yet. Just have not had time to do that, but it is feasible and I'll just take a look at it. And so that's one of the things we'll be working on here once we get through the split event. The downside is we are not eligible for grant funding currently and there really is no grant money available for water system work. It would be solely loan. So 100% on the city to do this work. The only potential for grant funding would be through earmarks. And the water supply division has said that they will support us advocate for Montpellier to get earmarks. And that would be really the only way at this point unless some new funding becomes available. And this was straight from the water supply division. They have more contacts and resources to direct us to the money than I do. So that's just a challenge is that it's a big investment. We want to make the investment as just whether or not it's manageable. The third piece that they are looking for is a mix of management strategies, they called. And that would include conducting test fits and checking areas for corrosive soils. So you may remember we've had a lot of failures in the newer ductile iron pipe. And that's because the clay soils in Montpellier are acidic. And so we're getting very short life spans out of those. So they want us to dig some pits, test the soil and which we've done very minimal testing so far but they want us to ramp that up which I support that approach. They would like us to include some pressure monitoring around the system. So to see if we have any pressure spikes also in support of that. And then a lot more tracking of customer complaints and as well as the type of failure we're having in the pipes which we have recently started doing. We are, those two items are really, we're in the works of doing that already through our asset management program which will really enable us to get a lot better data that's searchable and documented well through photos and it can be done by our staff in the field rather than having an engineer staff try to collect that information. And then the last piece that they're looking at is to try to see how much corrosion has already taken place on some of the ductile iron pipes to reevaluate the actual design life and try to make an estimate on that so that we can reprioritize which projects we complete. So overall, I think we are really close. We have a very clear path and I support all of the things that the state has asked us to do. And the one challenge is gonna be is to do a lot of pipe replacement in a relatively short amount of time given all of the other things that are happening within the city. So that's about it. I could take any questions. Thanks, Kurt. Start with members of the council. Are there any questions? Donna. Thank you, Kurt. It always helps when you take these reports and pull out the essence. Sometimes in trying to read all that I sort of lose like what? But it's really helpful for you to identify that and I do appreciate the information. And an earmark is something we can all work for if we just, you know, decide it. This is the way to go. This sounds really good. Thank you. Kurt, can you remind us what percentage of our system is the ductile iron? And if you don't have it at your fingertips. I don't have my fingertips. It's a relatively small percent. You know, I would think it's likely under 10%. I don't have the exact number available. But that's the 10% that's giving us a disproportionate impact on pipe main failures, I guess. We're having a much shorter design life on the ductile iron for sure. But not all of the ductile iron is in corrosive soils. So it's not all ductile iron of that 11% that we're looking to replace. There's a mixture of cast iron pipe. I would say the majority of it is older cast iron pipe. There are just a few areas that are ductile that are failing very quickly. So that's why you get to the test pits. Correct. Okay, the vulnerable areas. Okay. Any other members of the council with questions at this point? You, Lauren. Just a quick one. And just so far based on what we've seen from the flooding, like no known impacts to the water, the drinking water piping or system that we've found yet. Is that accurate? That's correct, except for the in the service lines inside the building, when things have floated up and broken them off physically. But other than that, no known impacts to the municipal water system. Thanks. Great, thanks. Okay, we'll take comments and questions from members of the public. Stan Brinkerhoff. Stan Brinkerhoff, Main Street. Two, just two quick technical questions, Kurt. You mentioned, I believe $7 million or $6 million and a 7% rate increase over five years. Is the $6 million the cost for rip up the road, replace lines, repave the road, like start to finish? Or sometimes we do paving projects alongside that work. And it seems as though it's higher. And the second question is that 7% rate increase, is that the normal rate increase or is that then on top of the normal CPI increase we see each year? Thank you. Yeah, so it's a $6 million estimate. Again, I haven't vetted that number out. The construction climate is changing rapidly. But yeah, $6 million is the estimate and that would be just to dig the pipe up and patch the pavement disturbed through that construction, not to pave the entire road. And then, what was your, can you repeat your second part of your question? I am a little tired. We see a normal rate increase every year. No, yes. Normally index the CPI. Is the 7% then in an extra 1.25% a year on top of CPI? Right. No, that was strictly that's ignoring the master plan and just strictly looking at the number increase to do this pipe. So that would not on top of the master plan inflation increase. But again, I'm not really comfortable with those numbers. I have not done any checking on the current construction climate and the consultant did that very quickly kind of back in the napkin estimate. So those numbers are subject to change, but that is ballparking what they're estimating at this time. Thank you. Thanks. Any other comments or questions from any other members of the public and anything else from members of the council? Well, thanks, Kurt. I know we'll be hearing from you again about this. Oh, Jodi Pedersen. Thank you. I'm trying to understand. So the city, so the state would like us to do pressure reduction, but they've suggested these other things would be acceptable regarding this recent evaluation they did of our water system. I'm trying to understand why that's, it has the feeling of more band-aids to me. I wonder if you could help me understand that. Sure. So the consultant and through their response to the state's initial comments did a lot of mathematically and mathematical modeling in the water system. We have a computerized model where you can look at the hydraulics in the system. And one of the really important points that came out of that is that not only are the pipes in the ground very old, but they're very, they're really too small. Even the ones where when you open the hydrant, it doesn't drop the pressure where it doesn't meet the rules to a point where it no longer meets the rules. By opening those hydrants or having a big flow in the system, the speed and the pipe because it's so small is very, very high. And that results in these pressure spikes that are correlated to water leaks when you have these big jumps. And through a lot of discussion with the state, I think that point was driven home that not only are you just replacing an old pipe, you're slowing down the speed at which the water is traveling through that pipe and therefore you're really getting like two benefits through your investment in that you're reducing pressure spikes and you're replacing a very old asset. The other piece of it is that if we were to reduce pressure, you essentially have to make a $20 million investment all at once. So it would be a major financial shock to the water users to try to do all of that work at once. And it would take a long time because you have to secure easements and build pump stations by property and do a lot of design work. So it would cost a lot more and take a lot longer and you would still have high speeds within the pipes and you would still have these spikes and I'll likely continue to have failures. And so the state has really said they wanna focus on the public health risk as they're concerned about the boil waters. And I think through the discussions we've had since the last meeting, they've really come on board that this is the best approach. Does that answer your question? I'm just concerned for the long run if we should be finding financing out there to actually fix the system so that we don't have the, so that we do reduce the pressure and have the pump stations and stuff. I just, I don't understand why it's not better to plan to fix the whole thing. Because you're still gonna have the same, yeah. Well, we are. So you're still gonna have the same problem but if we just reduce the pressure, we're still gonna have a high number of water breaks because you're gonna have a lot of old pipes. It doesn't, even if the pressure is lower, you're still gonna have very old pipes that are gonna break and very high speeds in those pipes causing spikes. So it's not going to fix the problem. Well, I was assuming we do both, I mean, but. I mean, I think the pressure reduction could be revisited after we fix the core issue. But at this point, the best approach to quickly reduce the number of breaks is to do this pipe work. That's the faster way to fix the problem. Okay, thank you. Thanks, Kurt. I don't see anyone else seeking to be recognized. So, oh, Sal. Just to add to what Kurt has said in response to Jody Pedersen's question, I just wanna remind people about the $20 million solution which didn't include land acquisition and that sort of thing that would only reduce pressure by 20 PSI. So the pressure would still be high and all of the maintenance or most of it that would take place during the period required to spend that 20 million to reduce the pressure would be deferred. And so you'd really have a much better solution, I think, proceeding with the pipe replacement. Short of completely redesigning the whole system which is just not feasible financially, it seems like we're stuck with a difficult problem and this appears to be the best solution at the moment. Thanks, Sal. Yeah, I agree with that. I think we were faced with a description of the problem that clearly we all know about the water mean breaks and the boil notices and the high pressure. And I think where we really wanna be is to be in agreement with the state. So the state can then approve the design and say, okay, you now get your license to continue operating the water system. And in case anyone wonders, that's the reason we're having this back and forth with the state about what we need to do with the system and how to proceed. And so I think we're in a much better position than some of us thought we were a few months ago. Yeah, the other thing that having the approved report that does is, although there's not grant funding now for construction, there is for design work. And by having an approved preliminary engineering report then now we're eligible for grants on the final design work as well as low interest loans. So it sets us up for the available funding that is out there currently. Okay, great. Anyone else before we move on? I think we're good on this. Okay, thanks, Kurt. Next item is other business. And I don't know if there's any other business that we didn't already talk about in the first part of the meeting. And we'll go to council reports, going from my left, Sal, you're muted. There we go. I'm sorry, I have nothing to report. I just want to echo everyone's comments about the remarkable jobs that the city staff and departments have been doing over these past few days. I do agree that maybe communication could be a little clearer on things like what the word breach means. But we did the best we could with the information we had. And I think the points that people brought up were well taken, but everybody has been doing a fabulous job. Thanks, Donna. Likewise, just the staff, everyone, not just the apartment heads, but everybody has just come together. And we will do a holding briefing and we'll make it better next time. But I'm very, very impressed with our whole community. And just thank everybody. Thanks, Carrie. Brad, just along the same lines and part of what I said earlier, thank you all so much to the city staff and to all of the citizens of Montpelier and the people who are really coming together and offering to help each other out. I mean, this is what has to happen in a situation like this. It's incredible what the city staff has been able to do and it will never be able to meet all of the needs in our community. And so we're very fortunate that we have so many other people within our community who step up and help their neighbors and help each other. And I'm just so grateful. Thank you. Thanks, Karen. I will just repeat same things. Thank you for all hard work and everything you have done during this time. And I also mentioned that some of the two people reached out to me to ask questions and some of the things I have to ask Bill and Kelly. And although they had all these challenges with their internet, electricity and they haven't been sleeping, they just reply my emails right away. And then I can pass that message to, you know, just to people. So I really appreciate that. And honestly, I wasn't expecting to hear from anyone. I was just like trying my chance and right away, I heard and I just passed the message. So I really appreciate. I hope we don't have to deal anything like that again. But everything you did was remarkable. Thank you. And Lauren. Yeah, just, you know, again, thanks to everyone, city staff across the board. And I think the only thing that maybe hasn't been said that I wanted to say was just encouraging the community to be patient and persistent. And like it's great to see the surge of volunteers and everything, but it's gonna be a long slug of recovery. So just hope we can all keep up the engagement and, you know, give our city staff the time it will take to rebuild because this is, you know, gonna take a long time and a lot of effort. So just hoping people can keep that in mind. Thanks. I have very little to add as a mayor's report. One of the things that I think is quite striking is that it's barely a week ago that we were marching down Main Street and State Street for our parade. And there are thousands of people lining the streets and gathering on the State House lawn. And we got from there to this. And it's hard to believe it's only Wednesday as much as we've gone through this week. So great work, everybody. I know that, you know, I'm seeing what 27 participants on the meeting right now, which means there's many city employees who are not here in the meeting who are not saying. So Bill, I hope you just give everyone our profound gratitude for everything they've done. I hope they know they're appreciated. And city clerk's report. Hey, sorry, you're getting a report from me. I like to pass, but I just wanna note that the opposite of the office works office is closed. I've gotten a little surprising amount of requests for information for land transactions or escrow information. I'm gonna catch up with all of those on Friday. I don't anticipate the office being actually open until Monday because I, as you heard, I'm in the flood zone. So we have some damage that we're dealing with. And I'm working from home around the edges a little in my deputy is having some serious issues with being able to get access to roads and such, but we'll definitely be open Monday, if not sooner. I would mention we have a bunch of documents downstairs as well, the clerk's office. Everything was electronically backed up, but everything we do have there, including some historical vital records, is fine, quite a damage. So I'm very grateful about that. In terms of the elevator and accessibility, we did have a situation for a while. Some years ago where the elevator was down for a while and we set up sort of a communication system, like a light, or I don't even remember what it was, between the back accessible door and our office where folks would indicate that somebody needed help and we'd run out there and help them and shuttle things back and forth. It was a little nuts, but it worked. So I think we're all, we can prepare to do something like that again. And let me just throw in with the thanks here. I think we have a concept in IT called fault tolerance, which assumes that things are going to go wrong, assumes that there's going to be issues, things are gonna break, banks of rivers are gonna overflow to put that in real world terms, but the real strength of the system is whether it can tolerate those faults and continue to function. And I think the city has shown extraordinary fault tolerance. I think the staff and the citizens have just been incredible. This has been a big break in our regular ways of doing things and life is going on, life is going to be fixed and the city is as strong as ever. So anyways, thanks to all, thanks to staff and thanks to citizens, it's been something to see. Oh, and how did the clerk guinea pig ride out the storm? The office guinea pig or hamster? Nevermind. Jebeth, I think Jebeth. Okay, nevermind, John, we'll move on. City manager is reporting. I'm sorry, were you speaking to me? I didn't hear you call, you were muted. Yes, I was. I was asking how your guinea pig lasted the storm. I checked in on him, guinea pig is doing fine. Our office proper is fine. He's his perky self. He was even a little ill before the flood, but he's back to 100% to go as on the job. All right, city manager. Thank you, I've got a few things to say, but in that vein, I should also mention that we did have an additional asset in our EOC, Kurt's dog Ruby joined us for a while and she entertained us by going from person to person and how can you not smile when a puppy's jumping on you even under a big Christ? So we really appreciated having Ruby with us for a while to keep our spirits up. Before I get into some thank yous, I meant to mention this earlier when we were talking about the dam, but I didn't want to take full responsibility. I was the one who used the term breach and it was really just a mistake. It was exhaustion at four in the morning not to make excuses. I do know the difference from a spillover and a breach and I used the wrong term and I probably inadvertently caused some panic and I do apologize for that. So we will strive to be better words do matter and we'll be on top of that. I thank you very much for all your kind words about city staff and, you know, Pell and with regard to your response, I mean, I think Kelly and I Evelyn to some extent, you know, we view our job is being able to is to provide that kind of information to you and to the public on a rapid bit and also so that the people who are, you know, are actually out there doing work don't have to be dealing with that. So we get the information we respond the same thing with dealing with the press like the mayor Kelly and I both have been fielding lots and lots of calls and TV interviews and everything else. And that's so current Merrick and Bob and them don't have to so they can be directing their crews to get the essential work done. So it's all part of our roles on the team. I also think I really do wanna thank the business community, you know, the city staff certainly worked hard and we're here as a city government but, you know, those folks, this is their whole livelihood and they're at their shoveling their stores out and the community's rallying for them. So we're really trying to support them. You know, we've seen extraordinarily efforts the other night, there was at least one merchant there till almost 10 o'clock at night, Eric and I went up to just check on the stores and there was a light on and people cleaning their store out and, you know, that was before this morning. So hats off to all of them working so hard and a couple of the businesses I really wanna call out skinny pancake opened their stores for free today to feed people that were downtime working and business owners. They had food they had to use up and said, well, we could throw it away or we can cook it and they brought in a staff and they made their food and fed people and capital grounds, same thing, they just were making sandwiches and passing them around. We went in to visit Julia and her staff. The floor was muddy, stuff was turned upside down, the staff was cleaning and there was Julia behind the counter making sandwiches for people to go out while the cleanup was going on around her. So people really are, this is a great community and we are all fortunate to live here and we appreciate all of the feedback, even the negative we all learned from it. So thank you all for your kind words and we look forward to getting back to the work of putting the city back together. All right, those are great closing words. So thanks and we will adjourn at 823 p.m. Thanks everybody.