 was out of the way. I hope that's the only one for the day. So anyway, thank you all for coming. We have people here with us in the Zoom room. We also have people streaming live on YouTube, and I hope that I am not also streaming live on YouTube or you'll hear my echo. And of course, to people watching in the future, hello to you too. First, we are here today because this is a series of open conversations that we're hosting between executives, senior leaders at the foundation, and the rest of the movement to talk about the foundation's annual plan. The annual plan was finalized and released earlier this month. So if you haven't taken a look at it, I would encourage you to take a look at it on meta, but I imagine most of you have looked at it already. Because in this session, the purpose of it is to be able to ask questions about what is your plan and share comments and ideas about what's there, and get aligned on your work for the year ahead. A reminder that this meeting is covered by the friendly space policy. So please bring your openness and your curiosity and civility like you always do to this conversation. We will have an hour together today, and I will tell you how it will be structured. First, I'll ask the speakers to introduce themselves, and then we'll do watch a few minutes of the annual plan videos that we made to give an introduction to the topic of the annual plan. Those videos are also on meta, and I'll talk a little bit about those before we show them. But after that, we'll get to the open conversation, open question and answer, and open discussion with everybody. We have a number of questions today that have been submitted ahead of time, and those questions cover a range of topics. So I'm really going to do my best to get to all the questions that were submitted ahead of time. And of course, we'll also be taking questions live from the Zoom chat and from the YouTube chat. And if you are here with us in Zoom, you're welcome to add yourself to the speaker queue. And when I call on you, you'll be able to unmute and ask your question live. I would ask that if you want to add yourself to the queue, do it in chat using this rather than using the hand raised feature, that will allow us to just watch the chat only. It keeps things a little bit more simple. So yeah, if you do decide to speak, to unmute and speak, if you're here in the Zoom room, that's great. We would love for you to do that. Just a reminder to keep your question or comment as concise as possible to give as many speakers the opportunity to speak as we can. This meeting is being recorded. It'll be posted to the annual plan met a page after the session and will also be posting the transcript. And there, finally, we'll post any answers to questions that we didn't get to during this session. I want to invite the people in the Zoom room to make sure that their screen name is how they want to be called during the session. And if you feel comfortable, I also encourage you to add your pronouns to your screen name. You can do that by just hovering over your window, clicking the three dots and clicking rename. All right, let's get started. So first, let's get today's speakers. We have two speakers today to introduce themselves. If you could say your name, where you're based and what your title is, that would be great. We can take the slide down now and we'll start with Tosh. Hello, everybody. I'm Tosh Taylor. I live in Maryland just outside of Washington, D.C. in the U.S. And here at the foundation, I'm the vice president of data science and engineering. That includes machine learning, search and data engineering under my portfolio. And then there are a couple of other folks that I have under my wing as well, including research and site reliability engineering. Great, thank you. Toby. Thanks, Tosh. Thanks, Elena. I'm Toby Negren. I'm the chief product officer here at the Wikimedia Foundation. I'm based in cloudy San Francisco, California. We like to say that the product department and the technology department work together to deliver the software that people use to edit, read, and do all the other amazing things with our properties, especially with the product department does the parts of Wikipedia and the other wikis that people use every day to read and edit Wikipedia. Thanks so much. Good. Now we'll watch two short segments of the annual planned videos. I did mention the videos are posted on the annual planned meta page. They are available in seven languages and we have about a five to seven minute video available in full from each department. So I encourage you to go look at the full videos after the session if you see anything of interest to you. Hi, I'm Toby Negren. I'm the chief product officer here at the Wikimedia Foundation. So probably the biggest new thing this year is we're calling the pilots. We've already talked about how equitable growth is a goal of the foundation. But we also know that particularly for newer communities, we don't really have the recipe. We know that we need to do it with our communities. But what we've done is we've set up three different small projects. One is around new users, one is around movement organizers and one is around new form factors that we're going to that we're going to work on. And we're going to see actually what works and take blends of them and incorporate them in our strategy moving forward. One of the things that's new is a focus on movement organizers and a new team called the campaigns team. We've known for a long time that unsung heroes of the movement are people who work in helping people edit, working with organizations who want their content to be in Wikipedia, things of that nature. And it must be said that we probably haven't supported these people as well as we might. So we started out with a lot of research last year. And this year we hoped we're putting that research into play by improving the tools that we're creating for movement organizers. Like another change in the product department is really focusing it on our technical platform and acknowledging that if we're going to bring in new developers in the movement we actually have to update our technical infrastructure. And that's starting out with a change in our presentation technology from a homegrown system that's five or six years old to a new open source platform called view.js. And this is going to make it much more inviting for developers all over the world to start participating in building out the encyclopedia as well as running content for it. My name is Grant Ingersoll and I'm the Chief Technology Officer here at the Wikimedia Foundation. The first thing I'm really excited about is what we are calling global site performance. Namely you can think of it as we want to make sure that no matter where you are in the world you have, and I'm going to hedge here a little bit, but you have roughly the same experience as someone who lives say near one of our main data centers, right? Like which are as located in Washington D.C. in the United States or if you're in Europe, near Amsterdam, which is where one of our main caching centers is. And so we want to make sure that if you're, no matter where you are, you have roughly that same experience. The second thing, you know, I've talked some about, you know, we want to make sure the site is secure and reliable. We know that the landscape around the security of our sites is ever changing due to legal frameworks changing. And so in order to make sure we can truly withstand outages across any of our sites, we want to make sure that we have off-site backups from which we can restore, right? So we spend a lot of time just trying to make sure that if something, you know, if something bad happens, knock on wood, it doesn't. But if something truly bad happens, we can deal with it. So there is some disaster planning scenarios that we just work through and run through. Gory details are all underneath the hood. I don't want to bore our listeners with it. And then last, I'd be remiss if I didn't highlight, you know, I think one of the things this project has a real opportunity to do or these projects have a real opportunity to do on the software front is to modernize some of our software practices and tooling. We are working to establish what I would call a better welcome map, right? I think one of the things we've under-invested in, and it's almost sad to say because we are a site built on documentation, but some of our software documentation, et cetera, could use some more love, if you will, right? So we're making some investments in documentation and we're also making investments in how do we make sure our content and our code bases are more inclusive, more welcoming of people. Because at the end of the day, you know, again, we want to make sure we're reaching everybody around the world and that's going to require developers around the world as well. So I just want to start with the same opener question that I am posing across sessions to transition from the videos to the discussion. The videos mention a number of high level changes under this annual plan. So I wanted to give you both Taj and Toby the opportunity to elaborate on concretely one project or initiative or priority. So one thing that represents a big change under this year's annual plan and focus specifically on why it's relevant to the movement, why it should matter to the movement. I'll start with Taj, who is obviously a different person from Grant. So maybe Taj, if you want to explain, you know, you're here instead of Grant and what that's about for everybody watching and then tell us about one thing that's a big change under this annual plan for technology and why it should matter to the movement. Sure. Thank you, Alayna. So I'm not Grant Ingersoll. Grant is actually departing the Foundation. The announcement went out a few weeks back. In his place, while we search for a new chief technology officer, the three vice presidents of the technology team are stepping in to co-lead the department. It's in that capacity that I'm appearing here. So in addition to representing my regular areas of responsibility, I also have taken on a bit more as have my other two colleagues. So that's why you see my smiling face today. The project that I'd like to highlight I think is in line with what you heard Toby talking about in the video, we recognize that making the experience for new developer contributors a little easier and a little better is important. And we have some tasks for ourselves to make that experience better with better documentation, improvements to documentation, more consistency around the way we describe things in that documentation. With the hope that the experience for folks who come new to the platform and want to contribute code, we'll find it easier to ramp up and get going. Great. Thank you for that. Toby, one project initiative priority and what it should mean, what it means for the movement. Thanks, Alayna. So I'm going to cheat a little tiny bit. I'm actually going to talk about three, but I'll talk about them really quickly. So the first thing I want to catch the ball that Taj threw, sports metaphor, so to speak, and really say that the product department used to take a bit more of a portfolio approach. We had a little for editors, a little for readers, a little for moderators. We're now really focusing on the people who make the movement and that includes movement organizers, which is a focus of the pilots and a really focus on the people who are giving the movement organizers tools, we call this campaigns to bring people into the movement. And then for developers, really working with Taj and his team on making that experience just more welcoming for everybody, right? And that includes improvements to documentation, that includes improvement to tech stack, like the view.js, and just a general acknowledgement that these are the people who make the movement and the foundation needs to support them more explicitly. Thank you. Did you get through those three? That was three. Oh, right. Oh, you're right. You're right. Actually, you're nice. So the other thing I want to say is it doesn't mean that we have generally stopped on things like desktop refresh that are more aligned with the product modernization theme of our medium term plan, which is like our three to five year plan. This year we have shipped or we'll be shipping major UX updates to search, reading experience, editing experience, and talk pages, our communication experience. So we're sort of doing this slow focus, but it doesn't mean that we're stopping the other exciting things that we've been working on for a while. Great. Thank you. I want to do a quick follow up, a question that was submitted ahead of time about these pilots. Someone's asking about they want to know like what exactly are the pilots? How did you come up with that idea? And what are the timelines? And if they're quick timelines, how do we know we're giving them enough time to succeed? Yeah, no, the great, great question. So one of the things that we actually need to do, I think, is actually do a readout with the community of the pilots and where the focus is and what we're actually doing. So I think the, sorry, what was the first part of your question, Elena? Can you just explain what the pilots are just as a concept? Right. So one of the things that the foundation and the movement and focused on are bringing in new contributors, both in areas where Wikipedia is already really well known and used, but also primarily in the rest of the world, right? Like there's a real difference in the way Wikipedia is used in the States, in Western Europe, in Japan. It's very well known, very recognized. And then the rest of the world, it's actually even the awareness of Wikipedia is much lower and there are a lot of reasons for this. So the thing we realized when we thought about addressing this global difference is we don't actually have a recipe for building communities. We know there are some things that work. We know there are some things that don't work. So the purpose of the pilots was to essentially do experiments working with the communities we're trying to reach to actually figure out what tactics we can use to help the communities grow. And so that was sort of like the idea around it. And then there's another piece of it, which is to work cross-functionally, right? Like it's not just the product department or the technology department's problem. It's everybody and we're really trying to work together. And I'm happy to say that we've already done one experiment actually working with the advancement team, the folks that managed the fundraising and sustainability for the movement is there are a number of donors who have expressed an interest in editing. And so we have actually reached out to those donors directly via email and bringing them into our new user experience actually. And this is being done in Spanish, trying to see if this is a good onboarding path for new users. And then about the time frames, like one of the things that we really wanted to provide direction for our teams is we wanted them to work quickly and learn and not try to think of a three-year program where we don't actually know what's going to work and what's not going to work. So we're going to do some pilots, the emphasis is on quick learning, but when we find things that work, then we're really going to double down on those and really invest in those. But yeah, it's really just, you know, I've kind of babbled a little bit, but the big picture is it's really just about learning how to grow communities in a systematic way by working with those communities and giving them the tools that they need. Great, thank you for that. I want to turn now to the topic of global templates, which has been asked in via email and also on the YouTube chat. People want to know how global templates fit into this year's annual plan. Are they a part of the annual plan? And someone stated that point three, tooling for contributors that's easy to use, well-documented and accessible to users, increasing engagement contribution from the annual plan sounds like global templates could fit into that, just to note that they could remove hurdles for all sorts of contributors and would be especially useful for emerging communities. So wondering about global templates, how they fit in under the annual plan, and what the foundation's commitments are to work on those in the near future. Taj, I guess I can speak to this quickly. So first thing, we hear you and global templates absolutely fits in with what we're doing. What we're working through right now is actually taking all of the community feedback, integrating it with technical challenges around global templates and putting together a project plan. We're working with the product committee on the board to specify this with the intention of coming up with a project and figuring out the funding for the second half of this year. So we're on it right now. It's an interesting, it's a really, like I agree, it's a really impactful project. I think there are challenges around implementation. There are also challenges around things like moderation that we really need to think through before we get started. But yeah, we hear you and we will have some updates later in the year. Would you be able to mention what objective of the annual plan this work falls under? Or what, you know, so that people know what they can keep an eye on to see it unfolding? Absolutely. I think it's a combination of objective two. Well, I guess actually, I think it's, I think it's an it's under platform evolution and objective one. And then insure, and then in thriving movement, insure Wikimedians have the tools, have the systems and tools they need to succeed in objective two. Great. Thank you so much. Good. And if there are any follow-up questions on that, we can take those in the Zoom chat or the YouTube chat. But I think you can pretty much cover this first question. Great. So let's move to the topic of accessibility. We have a question from the YouTube chat. Let's see. Initiative 10 in the 2030 strategy is compatibility with accessibility guidelines. And this person wants to know if there is an accessibility analysis as a baseline and what we're doing under the annual plan around accessibility. So I can, I can grab this. So accessibility is really important to us, both as a value but also, you know, if we're going to share all of the world's knowledge, we need to have all of the people in the world be able to contribute. So I don't have, I don't have an update off the top, on the tip of my tongue here, but I believe that we do, we have consultants who help us with accessibility as well as team members in the design team. And I believe we try to adhere to web accessibility guidelines standards, but I will have to get back to you on specifically what we are doing, the specific methods that we use, but I do want to say that this is very important to us. It is something that we do pay attention to. It's more like part of everything that we do as opposed to like a specific, as opposed to a specific like objective, but I can definitely get more information. Thank you so much. Yeah. And we can, we can post that answer on the annual plan meta talk page once we have more specifics about that. Happy to do that. Okay, great. We had a question submitted ahead of time about mobile editing. So let's turn to that. Making mobile editing easier will be a solution for multiple issues, including editor retention, global participation, bridging the gender gap, and places where laptops are not common. This person wanted to know that they didn't see it explicitly mentioned in the objective. So they want to know if mobile editing work is covered under this year's annual plan. And if so, what objective does it fall under? That great question. I think mobile editing is, mobile editing is critical. And a couple of years ago, we did a lot of work, advanced mobile contributions, making sure that the all of the moderation features were available on people's phones. We also did a lot of work around micro contributions, as we call them on the apps. So right now, we're, we're, we're mobile first, we don't even put it in because sort of that's our assumption that we're building that we're building more for phones than for anything else. It doesn't mean that we're not desktop, we really are focusing on experiences that work for both. But yeah, I think mobile is so, mobile is so important to us and so embedded in how we approach our work that we don't actually call it out explicitly, but understand that it's there. And I think a great example of this is the work on the growth, that the growth team is doing, the new user experience, that works just as well on mobile as it does on desktop. I think, Taj, do you want to talk a little bit about our data center footprint on how that helps people worldwide as well? Thank you, Toby. I was thinking about that as you were talking. One of our plans in this coming year is to establish a new data center presence in Western Europe. And this is a step in the direction for improving mobile editing in particular for people who are in Europe, Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Africa. Global latency is really a factor when you are online there and you're coming to US data centers to interact with our tools. So this is a step in the direction of reducing latencies for a large swath of the world there. It isn't going to solve the problems all by itself. There are additional technical challenges that await us in future years to really make this a complete solution, but it is a major first step and we intend to get that accomplished this year. Thank you so much for that. Okay, we have a question in the Zoom chat that I'm not exactly sure either of you will be able to answer. We can pose it and see. This question may have been better for Monday's session that had talent and culture in it, which includes recruiting. But let's try. We'll see if we have any insight here. How many new employees do you plan to hire in this fiscal year? I imagine that's in reference to product and technology. And how high is this number of employees at the moment in the technology department? What is the estimated new number at the end of this fiscal year? If we don't have this answer here, I'm happy to post it on the on the meta talk page. But do we have any insight on that? I don't know the exact number, but I can tell you within a delta plus or minus five that we're about 150 in the technology team with, I believe, 12 additional full-time hires planned for this coming fiscal year. This is the growth rate that we're able to sustain right now in full-time hires. I think hiring engineers is a challenge for everybody right now, unless you're able to throw ungodly amounts of money at people and we don't do the kinds of things that would enable us to do that. So we hire people who really are interested in the mission and want to work here. And that means that we can hire it about that rate. In addition to that, there are also contractors who are added to the budget to support the work that we do. A lot of them are specialists in particular fields of interest and they augment the abilities of our team to do that work. Yeah, thanks, Taj. Product is about the same, where I think slightly maybe 160, 170 people with about 15 to 20 new hires this year. And I think it's important that there's a tension here. I recently read that the New York Times hired a new CTO in the New York Times. I think everyone knows this, but it's a big newspaper based in the States. They have 650 technical staff and we have about 300, 350. So relative to many other nonprofits were really big and really well funded. Relative to many of our sister companies on the internet were really small. And I think that's one of the challenges of managing here is figuring out how you can use your people that you have most efficiently. And that, of course, includes empowering people in the community to work alongside. Great. Thank you for that answer. I actually got a follow-up question in the YouTube chat about mobile. So I want to ask that before moving on. They'd like to know, will we see a possibility to contribute video from mobile anytime soon? Are there plans for that? Okay, that's another project that we're working on with the product committee. So I will turn this over to Taj in a second to talk about challenges about storing and displaying video. But I think it's called out, I think it's called for a movement strategy. I think the way people use the internet these days makes video particularly on mobile really important to us. I mean, I have teenage children. That's how they learn. I think we have to work through some issues around moderation on mobile and what collaborative peer-based knowledge production actually means with mobile. And Taj, do you want to talk about the technical requirements for maintaining a video site? Sure. And I think it's not just the technical requirements that are there, but they're substantially different from the technical requirements we operate to today. Just storage alone for video is a massive undertaking. I think this is where it becomes significant and important that we run our own independent data center operations, which means that planning for the capacity just to house video is orders of magnitude, probably two orders of magnitude more storage than we operate with today for any reasonable video implementation that could serve a wide audience. In addition to that, you then run into computation power, particularly for encoding and transcoding videos and bandwidth for delivery of the content. So expectations of end users on video delivery are extremely high in a world where you have things like YouTube and Netflix. Again, many more engineers than we have. Probably the entire team devoted to video experience at a place like that is the size of our entire organization. So there are some substantial technical challenges here. And then finally, I would layer on top of that, we focus a lot on reaching audiences that don't necessarily have the connectivity and bandwidth you expect in the United States or Western Europe or some parts of Asia. There are lots of folks who are operating on limited data plans, using mobile devices in those places where they're not even online all the time. And we would want to think about how to serve those people too, which is an additional layer of challenge on top of it. So it's no small feat. But as Toby pointed out, it's pretty important as a channel for reaching people who are learning and getting access to new information. And we have to figure it out. Thank you. So in setting ourselves up for the future, and Toby mentioned a movement strategy in his answer and how a movement strategy really calls for these advances with mobile, I want to turn to a question that was submitted ahead of time about about movement strategy and aligning with it. The question is around the hubs and how your work will change potentially in the future based on what happens with the hubs in movement strategy. What are you doing this year to prepare for a future in which a much larger amount of the movement's product development work happens in hubs, which would mean that it's therefore outside of the foundation and not directly under product control? Yeah, this is a great question and one that we actually have spent a considerable amount of time thinking about. So I think going back to sort of the product same for this year, which is systems of empowerment and empowering our contributors, both on the content side and the technical side, this really lines right up and to the issues around staffing. Taj and I have talked about this is like an amazing way to bring more people in the movement. So we are very excited conceptually about it. On the practical side, as most many people know, we work very closely with Wikimedia Deutschland on wiki data with great relationship, lots of information going back and forth. And I think this can be a template for how we work together on goals that we share, but different hubs have different areas of responsibility. I think one of the things that we also, another example would be something like wiki source, which is a project that is quite beloved. We point people at it when we can, but it would be really great for something like wiki source to have an owner, to work with people who can, that's their job. That's what they're thinking about. They can engage very deeply because at the end of the day, I think we have a response. The foundation and the community, but particularly the foundation has a responsibility to the world. To keep our very high traffic sites available running. And this takes a lot of time and takes a lot of bandwidth. So I'm super excited about it. I think it is a reflection of the movement. I think a lot of the work that we've done, both in product and technology, to sort of systematize our work is going to lend itself really well to decentralization. If I could add to that a little bit. Implicit in this, but not stated super explicitly is that we need to think deeply about changes to the underlying architecture that better enable a more distributed future. This is work that is ongoing. It is long term work. There are not necessarily a lot of outputs that are going to surface in the near term or in this year. But we do have, this is a topic of deep involvement by the architecture team, for example. And then there are also, for example, there's a collection of folks across several teams who are trying to figure out how to build systems that are more event based and more naturally distributed in their architecture that could then more easily facilitate not just development in other places, but deployment in other places. And then moving to a fully distributed architecture at some point in the future is a necessity to support that vision of the future. Thank you. So we have actually, actually, Elena, let me interrupt you. So do we do we want to talk about blockchain? No, I'm kidding. But I think there are certain exciting technologies that are contributing to the decentralization of the current internet. It'd be I think it like I know that some people have put Wikipedia on IPFS, for example. So I think there also might be some sort of kind of a long arc technological changes that would be interesting to see if that would help us decentralize. Yeah, I agree with that. I'm not sure I agree about blockchain, but watching. I think we're required to say it at least once, Taj and our everybody can mark that off their buzzword bingo. We got that one for the day. Good. Okay, so we do have a little bit of lag on the YouTube stream. So we had a follow up question to the previous question that came in as you were answering this most recent question. It's it's about the the size of your teams. So maybe we can answer that one quickly and then and then move on. Given the point that your teams are so small, and that you all mentioned the efficiency of each individual, what are the processes that you have in place to ensure that people don't take on too much that they that they don't burn out as they're doing this very important work in their very lean teams? I can start on this one. I'm glad that this question is being asked, because it's actually a topic of frequent discussion at all levels of this organization. How do we make sure we're focused on the right things and we're not taking on too much? In any mission driven organization, this is a risk. In an organization with this level of visibility and then in community engagement, it's even more of a risk. Part of the suite of things we have is the annual planning process to help winnow down and focus on a specific set of things, so that when the question is asked by an engineer or a team or even a new hire, like what are we working on? The annual plan answers that question. Ideally, if we do a good job, it describes a set of activities that we think we can accomplish in the scope of the year. It is ambitious and it will stretch us somewhat, but also there are things that are not included in the annual plan. The video, the thing we got asked earlier is a great example of that. I've been involved in conversations about video since I started here last year, but we're not actively working on that right now because we are working on these other things. Toby, I don't know if you want to add to that. No, I mean, I think that's a great answer, Taj. It's a challenge and I know that personally moving from the notion of a scrappy nonprofit to a sustainable organization is something that is very high in my thoughts for the culture that we want to see in the foundation. Just to echo what Taj says, we try to be specific in our goals that give teams flexibility in what they take on. Essentially, we use small agile development and so that involves an agreement between the product manager and the team, essentially a mutual commitment about the work that gets done. We really try to stick to that. I think particularly during the pandemic, flexibility around schedules, flexibility around team health is something that we really try to bring to the forefront of our management. Thanks. Both of you touched on those answers, the importance of being as strategic as we can with priorities and with what we emphasize. This is a question about prioritization. There's a sense that the foundation often chases the shiny new toy. This question asks, how does this annual plan focus on stability and reducing technical debt rather than just new products and features? I do not find shiny things in the part of the annual plan that is being worked on by technology. In fact, I think there's two themes here across the work that we're planning for this year that I want to highlight that I think get to this question. One of them is going back to improve the experience for new technical contributors in particular. Taking for granted that experience is very dangerous because we need to continue broadening the way. This is basic housekeeping from my perspective. We have to take care of the new people who come to the movement as well as we take care of the existing people. The second thing I want to highlight that shows up certainly in the data as a service work, but also across some of the other things is that we need to be better at instrumenting our own work. There's lots of instrumentation on site performance. We can see very well how much traffic we're delivering, where it's going, what's the uptime. You get a little bit higher up in the conceptual stack above the technology to the more social things. When we're building things, are they effective? We need to get much better at measuring and understanding our impact. There's a big focus on that. Again, I view this as basic housekeeping. How are we doing? Being able to measure that is the first key to being able to do it better. Yeah, well said, Taj. Understanding how the site is working, understanding how our interventions are performing. When I say performing, I mean how well they're working with our users is super important. I would also honestly challenge this notion, particularly recently that we've been chasing the shiny thing. I feel like we have actually resisted. One thing that came up a lot was integration with social networks. The community was not super in favor of it. We didn't necessarily feel that it worked with the values of the site. I think now in 2021, this decision turned out to be a really great decision as people are really engaging with some of the challenges of the big social networks. We also made a decision that we weren't going to double down on collecting user data. This was something that was made, decision that was made several years ago. It makes the challenge of actually assessing how your users are doing, which users are actually coming to site. It makes that a lot more challenging. Again, this decision not to push the envelope on data collection has been a really good one. I think in general, we do try to balance the existing needs of the site every day with the challenges of bringing on new users who might have completely expected, completely different expectations about how the internet works. So as a quick follow-up to that, we have a question about how much of the technical work, like quantifiably, approximately, how much of the technical work this year will be dedicated to just this, to keeping Wikipedia online and growing or keeping the projects online and growing as opposed to the other streams of work? I'm not sure how to quantify that because first of all, there's not exactly a bright line between keeping the lights on and moving the movement forward. There's some work that we do that actually serves both ends. I would describe it as a continuum of work where at the very most end of one end is we have an outage and we need to get the site back up. And at the very far end are people who are not even working on things that are going to reach fulfillment this year, but they're looking down the road. And there's a whole lot of people in the middle who are both working on things that help maintain the site and also move the movement forward. I think it's important to understand that we exist in the internet that isn't static. The internet is changing around us all the time. The way people access the internet is changing around us all the time. The legal environment that we operated, which is very relevant to the decision Toby was talking about with respect to data collection, is changing around us. And so our ability to continue operation and deliver on the expectations our user has, even in that environment, requires innovation and creative thinking and engineering all the time. Toby, you want to add to that? Yeah. I mean, I think that's super well said. I do feel like maybe community and communicating in the annual plan, we talk about sort of the forward-facing things that we're doing and maybe not enough about the work of the people who are keeping the site up and running. I feel like, and this is a continued tension as touch says, the internet is always changing. I'm just going to say one, I'm going to say one quick anecdote about why this is why this is continues to be a challenge. And I'm generation X and what that means is like, I started to use the internet in my 20s by hooking up a modem. And for those of you of the same vintage, a slip connection with my ISP, right? And it was like the internet back then was very web 1.0. And it was a collection of sites that were connected by links. This was very obvious. So when Wikipedia happened, it was very easy for me to understand how it worked because that was how the web worked for me. But if you came onto the internet much later on your mobile phone, maybe as a text messaging replacement, you started using WhatsApp or Facebook, the web works differently, right? You may not search for your information. You may just look at your social channels. And so we have got to find the right metaphor for free knowledge in these new contexts. At the same time, we're keeping the site up and running for the billions of people who already use it. So that would be just like an anecdote about sort of the challenges that we face in maintaining this giant website as well as ensuring that the movement stays is sustained for the future. Great. Thanks, both of you for talking a little bit about that continuum and that tension. That's really helpful. We have two questions that have come in from the YouTube chat. The first one is about wiki speech. I heard that wiki speech, the text to speech developed by Wikimedia Sweden, got stuck somewhere. Will it be unlocked this year? Do we have any insight into that? We're continuing to work with Wikimedia Sweden on deployment options for wiki speech. Again, it's sort of, we're just working out where it sits in that continuum that we've been talking about. Okay. And the next question is about supporting core projects like wiki site. How might we have the foundation fund a true database of citations, which is something we are sorely lacking? I can take this, Taj. I think this is another project. I think I know it as structured citations. And hopefully that's the same project. We continue to discuss the prioritization of initiatives like this against everything else. And I'll take this back to movement strategy. And I feel like this prioritization is one of the biggest challenges that we face as a movement balancing the needs of existing contributors, balancing the needs of new contributors, new technologies, just structured citations. And I think having the global council, having clear prioritization mechanisms so that maybe we don't all agree, but we all understand why the decisions are made is something that I'm really looking forward to. To springboard off that, we have just a question submitted ahead of time about the non-big wikis generally, wondering what is being done under this annual plan specifically for the non-big wikis, like not Wikipedia, not Collins, not wiki data. Is there anything that contributors to those other projects can look forward to under this annual plan? We just finished up some improvements to wiki source that I think have been really well received by the community. I think there was a small hiccup around some contributed workflows that I think we have fixed or we are in the process of fixing. Abstract Wikipedia, which is a new project that Denny Rendezic, who was one of the co-creators of wiki data, has a lot of needs around wictionary. So we are definitely doing some thinking there. I do feel like decentralization and the hubs are really the solution that we need moving forward to be able to give the attention to these smaller projects that they deserve. We also might be able to do some interesting things around with the new grants program. Taj, do you want anything to say? Toby, you really covered that pretty well. The majority of the things we are contemplating are not really specific to large wikis per se and I think can benefit everyone equally. But I also, it is important to recognize that smaller wikis are a great place to try out more innovative things when the communities are more receptive to it. I find, at least thus far, that seems to be the case. When we have new things to try, that tends to be the lab of innovation. And I think that is a great thing to have and we should continue doing that. Great. Okay. So let's see. We have a question related to the universal code of conduct, actually, which is a big priority under thriving movement in the medium to apply in this year's annual plan. The question is about how your work will support work being done on the universal code of conduct. Most social websites have easy to use features to show consideration or to report bad behavior. Will product work like this accompany the work being done on the universal code of conduct under this annual plan? Or is there anything else that product is doing in support of the universal code of conduct work and technology as well? Yes. That is a great question. So we actually have a couple of teams that are working very closely with the trust and safety team and community functionaries like stewards on essentially a list of features that help user safety. And I can provide a link to this. But here's the plan for the UCSC. We actually have a team that is ready to build what we are calling the big button for reporting harassment because right now it's very difficult. What we need to do is we need to work with communities to agree on how this will work, enforcement mechanisms, the people behind the button because it's really important to make sure that these requests are managed in a way that both represents a cooperation between the foundation and the community. And once we understand how that's going to work, we're going to build that workflow. And we'll be working with technology on the back end. But yeah, as soon as the UCSC conversations conclude, we are going to be building an abuse reporting system. Great. Thank you for that. Do you have any sense? I mean, I know that this project involves multiple stakeholders and thousands of community members. Do you have any sense at what point that product work will be set into motion in the year? Or do we just not have a sense of the timelines yet because there's so many discussions that need to happen first? I think those discussions are due to conclude at the end of this calendar year in December. Is that right, Elena? I don't, I'm pretty sure that that's true. I was just looking at it the other day. I mean, but it's really like, we need to build things in cooperation with our communities. Like, I don't want to get started on an abuse. Like, we have some technical ideas about how we're going to do it. And it's not, it's not, from a technical standpoint, it's not super challenging. But we have to make sure that we're on the same page with our communities, with the people who are going to be handling these requests. And that's really the most important thing. I think if we were to get started now, we would probably make some mistakes. But yeah, we're looking, I believe we're looking at that next calendar. Once the UCSC discussions wrap up, then we'll get started with the technical work. Okay, thank you so much. So that brings us pretty much to the top of the hour. We've gotten through all the questions that you brought today. So that is wonderful. I know that we owe people a response on the annual plan meta talk page specifically about things happening with accessibility. So we will get back to you all on that. Otherwise, I don't think we have anything else left unanswered. So thank you all so much for joining us and for bringing your curiosity to this conversation for your great questions. I had a wonderful time with you all. And again, this video will be posted on the annual plan meta page, the transcript will be posted as well. If you found this conversation interesting, I encourage you to share it with your communities and get people to watch it and ask any follow up questions on the annual plan meta talk page. Looking forward to continuing these discussions and to implementing this work throughout this fiscal year. Thanks so much, everybody.