 All right, welcome back. It's still the breakfast and plus TV Africa and former president Goodluck Jonathan has been in the news for the past 24 hours specifically human rights lawyer Femi Fallano says that the former president cannot contest in the 2023 presidential election citing constitutional provisions barring the ex-president from seeking re-election. Now the senior lawyer said this in a statement in response to growing cause on Jonathan to throw his heart into the ring ahead of the 2023 election. He said Mr. Jonathan, who was Nigerian president between 2010 and 2015 would bridge constitutional term limits of two terms of eight years if he runs for the presidency and wins again. He recalled that Jonathan became the president of Nigeria in 2010 following the sudden death of President Omar Erdogan. Now Erdogan later contested and won the 2011 presidential election. We have Nick Agole public affairs analyst joining us in this conversation. Good morning to you Mr. Agole. Thanks for joining us on the breakfast. You have good morning to you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, it is indeed our pleasure. For some time now, for days running into weeks, you know, the media has been awash or the president would cause for the former president to you know, join the presidential race and even people are asking him to join the APC and all of that. But you know how it has played out over time now. Consent lawyer, Femi Falunae and even a whole lot of them, Essay and Sahar, you know, vowing to sue the president or the former president if he declares interest to run that it is unconstitutional. First of all, let me just get your specific background and see how you're raising all of that. Okay. Thank you very much for that question. I am not a lawyer. So let me serve that caveat up front. But I am a Nigerian citizen who is interested in governance in Nigeria and our public affairs. So my reading of the Constitution of Nigeria 1999 as amended in section 137 subsection 3 says a person who was soon in to complete the term for which another person was elected as president, should not be elected to such office for more than a single term. So if I give a layman's interpretation to that provision of the Constitution, it means that former president, Good Lord Jonathan, was soon in to complete the term of the next president, Umaru Musayar-Adua, and therefore he is entitled to be elected to the office of the president for one more single term. And that single term happened when former president, Good Lord Jonathan, was elected as president in 2011. Therefore, looking at the Constitution as I am reading here as a layman, I would say that president, Good Lord Jonathan, former president, Good Lord Jonathan, can no longer seek for election to another term. This is what I interpret from the Constitution as I am reading to you. We also have some other quotas, some quota arguing that the law that has been quoted by Falunar saying that he cannot become president again, that law was made. He had already been sworn in twice. So he had already been sworn in twice before the law was made. And so the argument is do we backdate the law? He had the revered legal luminary from Falunar son yesterday on a television program where he made several quotations of judgments that have been delivered by competent courts in Nigeria in the past that affirm that when a law is made, as in this case the amendment of the Nigeria Constitution, after an event has happened, that the law takes retroactive effect back to when that event happened. So if we go by the submission of the revered legal gentleman, it then means that even though the Constitution was amended after President Good Lord Jonathan had already been sworn in for two terms, that these amendments would take retroactive effect to the two terms he has said before the amendment. Alright, a lot of reactions have followed that particular development. Specifically, you know, a lot of people are vowing to go to court over that and they are saying that let me just read something to you. The vice chairman, director of public affairs of the Igbo Leadership Development Foundation, Dr. Law, may have said his group will be going to court to challenge Jonathan should he declare his interest. May have stated that these are the people's democratic members of the House of Reps, one ex-president accepting offers of the APC and Bahari. Okay, explaining the stand of the ILDF before, who believes the next president should be from the Southeast region, argued that Jonathan had been affected by the constitutional amendment and those had no right. So specifically, do you really think this particular case, if it goes to court, will actually stand based on merit? Right. I have no idea how the courts are going to decide this, because you know, sometimes in Nigerian courts, even when the facts are very clear, the courts can throw out a case on technical grounds. So until this is taken to court and it is judged all the way, I believe to the Supreme Court, before we were able to know where the law justices on which side of the divide the law justices are going to fall on. And now we say it is a good thing. It's going to deepen our democracy. If we add to our common law, if this is actually tested in the courts, let the courts, who are the constituted authority to interpret our laws, be the one to have a final say in this debate that is happening. But you know, we still have this argument still saying that this law came after. This law came after he had completed his tenure. I mean, so it shouldn't affect him and everyone is expected to, I mean, those who are actually holding on this argument are saying that Falana of all people should know about this part of it, that it doesn't really hold him. Because at the time he had already completed his tenure before the law came on board. But looking at it now, what would you expect of Jonathan at the time? Would you say that it's okay for him to go ahead and pursue it if it's been pressured? Because he feels like he's not the one who wants to become president, but you have a lot of Nigerians who have trunked out on the streets and are asking him to become president or contest for the position of the president. So the legal case has already been laid by the likes of Fermi Falana's son that there has been court rulings in the past that have affirmed that new laws passed have retroactive effect. But I am going to also look at it from a layman's point of view to say that the former president, Good Lord Jonathan, has already been sworn in twice before the amendment of the Nigerian constitution. He is now trying to go and stand for election under this new constitution because it is not the old constitution that is going to govern his desire to become president again. He is not going to become president, and the operating constitution is the amended one as we speak today. And therefore, he has to abide or qualify to be elected as a president under the subsisting law, under the current law, under the law that we have as of today. And that law, as we have as today in section 137, subsection 3, is saying that he cannot be elected again as president because he has already served a single term after he was sworn in the first time to complete the tenure of late president Umaru Musa Yara Dua. So if we look at it from this perspective, then we will say that Mr. Jonathan's case may be weak because he cannot be facing today's law and then sitting on yesterday's law and saying I was qualified with yesterday's law and therefore I can disobey today's law. I don't think that is going to likely hold water. But like I said, the courts are the ones who are going to give a final budget on this. All right. Thank you so much. Let's bring in some legal perspective to all of this. We have joining us right now, human rights lawyer Barista Justice. Good morning to you Barista. Thanks for joining us in this discourse. Yeah, good morning. All right, Justice, let's try and get the whole legal perspective because we need to get lots more clarity after a Femi Falano essay and came out to explain why the former president cannot run. There seems to be the talk of the former president being sworn in twice. Another issue again is that he should not run for more than 80 years. Just try and explain all of this to us. Well, the Femi Falano, the other friend of mine, the law is written without telling me. The issue is that, as a piece to deal with, which law is going to govern the Femi Falano election? And by and large, the body that has given an amendment of the Femi Falano is in the position of appointing now our government the conduct, potentially, that we are taking over our government. So we cannot run the party. The law has issued today, the amendment has issued today, to not give Jonathan the right to continue the game. So in some other law, as it is noted, he has not changed anybody's view about it. Moving along, I think about which law we need to run into today in America. Is it these issues of law? I know that law is the best of some people's problems. But I don't think there's any conflict. We must look at this politically and do the work. I'm telling you, there are so many things as is supposed to be. We must implement everything. So as far as the law is concerned, the amended question of the constitution that is the first law of the nation, is it one law of the law? And I'm not sure anybody can hear about it. But do you think that the law, I mean quickly before we move back to Nica Goulet, do you think that the law, this amended part, applies to him or the amended part walks retroactive? Well, if you are trying things that are not going to come up here, you must look at the law. The question which is the first, when we have an amended question of the constitution, we still have to look at it as it is now. See, most times when we think of ideas that will not hold the law back, you know, it is only when the defense wants to think of things that they want to do to look at the law, to think the law and not to think. Let me say this. Let the lawyer not be. There is what we call the constitution law. And most times, there is what we call the constitution. Sometimes you look at these things that the law can't be clear. I ask the people. Even if you don't look at the law, who have the principle, who have the principle? Well, I wish we were able to hear you clearly. I mean, the audio is not very clear. And unfortunately, that's a legal question. But we'll just move away from that. And we're hoping that we're able to reconnect with you and get your perspective, whether or not that part of the amended law is retroactive, in the sense that it was done, he had completed his tenure at a time before the law became. And so what should we be looking at at this point in time? However, Nika Goulet is still part of the conversation. Nika Goulet, are you with us? Yes. All right. So moving from now, do you see those who are not in support? I mean, do you see a lot of litigation against the former president? Yes. There will be litigation either way. If the president contests there will be litigation. If he is bad from contesting those who support him, I believe we also approach the courts so that they will fight for his own rights. And we cannot wait to see that litigation play out. But as a public affairs analyst, let me drag this conversation to my own territory. As a public affairs analyst, I will say that because we have been discussing the constitutional qualification of former president, Good Lord Jonathan, for another term of office as a president, I am dragging the conversations now to public affairs analysis. And I will say that from a public affairs analysis perspective, President Good Lord Jonathan is not qualified to become a president again because we have already tested him. He was vice president from 2007 to 2010. And from 2010 to 2015, that is six years, I mean five years, 2010 to 2015, five years, he was our president. Well, he didn't complete, let's not forget that he was, I mean he was vice president to the lady, Musa Yardwa, and he didn't complete the tenure of, I mean he had to complete the tenure so it was not like he was elected independently to become president. According to the constitution, he had to replace him. So how do we explain the remaining under half? I think we should bring the barrister to explain that to us. Barrister, can you explain more of that to us because people are talking about two terms like Massi had said, he only completed the tenure of his former principal, Musa Yardwa, and that he run for four years again. But another issue, maybe I might not really understand the law so well, but the fact was that for 2015, he was also supposed to contest. So if it were supposed to sum everything up together, he would have done the year he completed for the former president Yardwa, his four years, and if he had one in 2015, there'd be another four years. How do you explain all of these gray areas? Barrister, Ohebu? Yes. For me, I think my friend, the CEO said, you know he's going to make a question of the constitution, which the court in my life would be called unless where to go or where to be directed. But what is this? Whether he had some purpose before or not, for me, is not even a thing. Why would you be looking at the law? I think what I would prefer to do on the constitution of the case today and not even if they don't have the right to go down with my women, money, children, parents, and all those activities of our women in logic. But let us talk about the question here is what is the current position in a good country with which I didn't know to go to continue this election? Or not? Do you think that there are opportunities to do this? Because if you believe a lot of women here who have sworn in to do their price to do and they have the age of this job or never to do something like this, try Nigeria. Maybe surprise. How do you do that? Because in my court usually I talk about relations in Nigeria each and every job I talk about time. Barstow-Hurk, are you still there? Yes, I'm here. Okay, but all of this now let me just digress a little bit now all of this clamor for the former president to get back into power it has been very debatable on social media across various people are saying that if he were to come back that he would write some of those wrongs that we are seeing right now how do you reason really? Well, I think if you I don't I don't even see it happening personally I don't see it happening and that is why I'm not picking it up so serious I think all these things are speculations and all the rest I know most are people that are advising me and all the rest but for me for me as far as I'm concerned he is not qualified to contest for the national election but he should put himself and be careful everything he don't play politics is everything when you begin to listen to psycho fans and all the rest they will end up at the end of the day embarrassing you and messing you up this is Nigeria we know how and everything so I would advise him to take the little respect or the respect he has also the name he has attained for himself and build on that that all these unnecessary issues of Jonathan here Jonathan here and all the rest so he should just listen to people like us and each psycho fan say no is anytime he's needed in government for one advice or the other he should know instead to come and provide advice and all the rest that is my own take but he should not do things that will that will corner him for a necessary legal battle and all the rest and the problem in Nigeria will continue to linger and somebody who now says he wants to be a messiah or he has done it before will now become the actual issue of problem Nigeria have I don't even see him even if he joins APC now or PDP let's get back to Nika Goulay who's still with us hopefully Nick do we still have you with us I'm here all right so but it feels like it's a pattern with our politicians I mean if you look at it we feel we seem to be going in circles so you have a former president becoming coming back to becoming the president or maybe the vice president is a thing with us so we just keep going back in that circle does it really mean that those who have become president or vice president at a time whether or not military or non-military are the ones that have the solution to the problems of Nigeria why is it that we to always gravitate towards past leaders to become future leaders I think it's a very wrong thing for us to be doing this what you have described because the best job interview you can give to a candidate is to see the candidate perform on that job and we have seen this past leaders perform on the job and they don't do a good job with it president good Lord Jonathan himself after five years as a president he didn't deliver much I think a lot of people are clamoring for him because if his performance was at 30% President Buhari has taken that performance to about 15-10% and so Nigerians are looking at 15-10% and they are not getting maybe we should have gone back to that 30% because I run president good Lord Jonathan 30% because president good Lord Jonathan did not touch on the fundamental issues that are bedeviling Nigeria he is from the Niger data and one of the biggest issues in the Niger data is pollution environmental pollution coming from gas flares the oil companies produce gas and they set it on fire it loses money for Nigeria we don't have electricity that the gas should have been used in generating and it is causing environmental damage pollution to his own Niger data people in five years Jonathan saw gas flares and left gas flares and did nothing with it Jonathan saw refineries for them we come down and he left them for broken down and he continued to pay few subsidies he didn't deal with that Jonathan made exchange rates and left it as it was even though Buhari was watching it Jonathan didn't do much in agriculture to unlock value from agriculture Nigeria continued to import food Nigeria a country blessed with the best fertile soil in the whole world with a good climate to match a sufficient amount of rainfall there was no industrial mechanized agriculture that he set emotion that today Nigeria would have been full sufficient and a spotting food he didn't deal with that in dealing with corruption look at the kind of things that his own minister for petroleum Madame Alice was engaging in when I say when I just I mean leaving this with Jonathan and the fact that he's been pressured to join the race for 2023 to become president as a matter of fact I don't know if he has declared his interest I mean we have not heard that he has actually come out to say I want to become president and via a particular political party but the question is why do we still have leaders I mean past leaders maybe from the military look at the president the current president was a former president I mean during the military you know regime and so you have you also look at the current aspirants who are running for the presidency you have past vice president and so it feels like it has to always be around the president former president or the vice president and all of the specimens doesn't really mean that power centers with this person or the experience or they have the solution to the problem why do we always and why do they always have to push themselves in the race I think there is a lot of executive power in Nigeria when people test executive power in Nigeria they don't want to leave it I mean if you were in the UK like Boris Johnson you had a party during Covid and the police are coming into your house to interview you to convict your criminal offense when you are in that kind of office you can't wait to leave it but when you are in an office where you are almost like a maximum leader you know you are above the law nobody can touch you everything is at your back and people want to be there and we have seen these people come back Kobasanjo came back you know Buhari has come back Osibajo wants to come back Jonathan wants to come back and we have seen that they cannot deliver anything because if they had delivered Nigeria would be a better place than we are today we are in a Nigeria today where a pregnant woman is being kidnapped and is being heard on Nigerian soil and the bank this even went and brought the doctors to come and deliver her her baby in bondage and the bank this had the to take the pictures of that baby and show it to the Nigerian public and we have armed forces we have a commander in chief of the armed forces and they are going to bed and sleeping and Nigerian citizens are being heard in bondage on Nigerian soil it's not as if they are taking them to a foreign country they are here with us and this is kind of people who want to come back again and they listen why they are coming back is because they have taken possession of the electoral process they control the parties and all of that and that is where Nigerian citizens have to come in alright thank you so much Nika Gole for your thoughts this morning we just have to wrap it up at that particular you know thought that you just left off Nika Gole is a public affairs analyst we were also joined by Barrister Justice but thank you so much I'm gentlemen thank you so much thank you so much I have a nice day alright it is still the breakfast in 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