 I'm used to be a part of a group. Me too. Basically what I want to do is talk to you about the ranch. Larry and others are always telling us how much wood you chop, how many hours you ride your horse, how many hours you do this and that. What do you really do out there all day? You give me a picture? Yeah, but they weren't snowing you. It's true. Somebody once asked me about the ranch. When did we ever think we'd have it finished? I said, I hope never. But that's part of the fun. You don't just go there to sit. But yes, the normal days routine is ride. We open the day with a ride. And then I come in and switch clothes into dirty jeans. And after lunch, there's any variety. We have priorities on the various projects. Oh, you do? Well, for example, see the only heat in this little ranch house is two fireplaces. And even many times when it isn't winter out here in California, the way the nights cool off, you're going to have fires. So you make sure that you've got a stock of wood and you have to have enough wood in advance that it's seasoning so it'll burn. So that is a big one. Right now, we're loaded. We're ready for true next winter. That's what we have been doing. Now, again, that's been a double task because we had a freak storm up there quite a while ago. April, not this April. Let's see, it was either a year or two years ago, April. We had a freak storm, snowstorm. We're at about 2,400 feet up those mountains. And those California live oaks, we have a lot of woods on there. And my man up there said that during the night, it sounded like an artillery barrage with those limbs breaking off all over the woods with that weight of that snow. So here was the place all cluttered up. Really, it looked like a disaster area. You go under the trees and hear all these great limbs and some still hanging. So that was our wood supply. So what we've been doing ever since then, whenever we had a chance, or whenever we have something else done and some spare time, why we still go after those branches. And we remove what I call the brush, the lighter stuff from them, and that gets piled for winter burning. And then we cut the rest into firewood. And the big stuff gets split, but we have a splitter. I remember, I've seen pictures of it being used. All this hard work, I don't understand it. How come you don't just want to snooze or sit back and relax? You're out there working so hard. What's the appeal of all this? Well, because the job that I have is a sit-down job. When you're working the hardest, you're sitting the longest. And I like all of that sort of thing. But the wood thing I say is part of it. Let me just give you the beginning of the whole ranch, though, and what I mean about whether to finish it or not. I've had a ranch for years, and I had to give one up to be governor. I remember that. And as I began to come toward the end of the governorship, knowing not one another, when I started ranch hunting, and some friends of ours had a ranch down at the foot of the hills, but it was a regular working thing, citrus fruit and that sort of thing. And one day, he and his wife and Nancy and I got in the car, and he started up this seven-mile switchback road through that steep brush covered hills. Well, his wife, she began saying, oh, turn around, there can't be anything up here. And he knew what he was doing, and he just didn't answer. And I was beginning to think with her, I didn't say anything, but I was thinking maybe somebody has a house up here in this goat country, and call it a ranch, but you looked around, you couldn't see. Well, near the crest of these San Inés Mountains, we turned in this private road through some trees, and suddenly their opening up in front of us was this saddle in the mountains. And it's a great variety. You think of it as a ranch with square fences and fields, and you do things, it's scenery. But there's meadows, and there are oak forests and madrone trees, and rock formations, and a great variety of countryside. And this is kind of where the riding and all. You want a place where it's fun to ride. And a little house on it had been built in 1872, Adobe. It is Adobe. I saw it described as Adobe style. It's actually... It's Adobe covered with plaster. That's what confuses people, I guess. You know, you cover them with plaster because the rain will melt the Adobe if you don't. And the previous owner had... because they were kind of like our first ranch, they lived right down in the valley in San Inés Valley, and he was a cattle man. So they just had this to come up there and maybe weekend or something, so they didn't really... In fact, most of the time it was easier to just go back down. You sort of took one look at it and said... This is it. Yes. Then my friend who was driving had to keep me quiet because I was bargaining in the house right to say yes, right then. But he had surrounded the house two sides, this previous owner with a screen porch he'd added, and it was plastic and screen and an aluminum roof. And we wanted to restore the place to kind of the history around it. So that was the one professional thing we had done. We had that... In fact, the first day that we ever had actual occupancy, we started tearing down the screen around the porch. I understand that you did... I've read various things on the ranch that you did a lot of the work yourself in terms of the tile and cutting the tiles around the fireplace and redoing the roof. Now, take me through it a little. I've never been in there. I've seen pictures of it. I've been on the outside of it. There's a living room and a family room and two bedrooms. It's all five rooms, right? Yes, there are two bedrooms. And one other professional thing we later had done after we were in there was that the master bedroom was nine feet wide. We took out one of those adobe walls and extended it about another nine feet. And added a closet. There was no closet in it. But yes, we tiled the floor. And we did this. When I say we, I had Elba Barney who was the highway patrol driver who retired now. He's with us. So he was a part of all of this. And we were quite a team. Did you have home improvement experience? How did you know how to do this? Well, the first summer job I got as a kid back in Illinois when I was 14 years old was with an outfit that was buying old houses, remodeling them and reselling them. And before the summer was over that first summer I was laying hardwood floor. I shangled roof. I painted. So I did learn a few things there. But Barney's quite a craftsman also. But there were other things we'd done. The previous owner, as I say, for convenience simply because they weren't using as we intended to use it. He had just regular farm wire fence right around close to the house. And we wanted a yard. So we took that out and laid out where we were going to put a fence line. But then I wanted a fence that would be appropriate to the surroundings and the style of the house and all. So I got some drafting paper. That's the kind with the little squares on it so you can do things in proportion. Draw an inch and know that it represents the next number of feet. And I started drawing various types of fence on this to scale, knowing that I wanted a fence about four feet high. And I finally settled on a very rustic fence made out of telephone poles. You cut the bottom off the pole and you use that for the upright. I've seen pictures of it. As a matter of fact, Larry said you're building more of it this week. About 400 feet. Which caused great consternation because everyone thought you already did that fence. So this is a new part of the fence. This is a new one, which is an addition. We're enclosing another part near the house. One of the things that we're told you like about the branch so much is that you have a lot of privacy there and that you do a lot of thinking about the job. Do you think about the job up there? Oh, sure. Yes. Let me tell you why. I learned a long time ago and long before this job. You can do a lot of clear thinking on a horse. And some of the best ideas come there. Well, we were told on this trip in particular that you were going to spend a good ten days thinking about whether or not you want to retire to that ranch in 84. Have you been thinking about that? No, that's just a constant thing to be decided. But as I say, that decision is going to be made at the last possible moment. You could make it because I think it's... Either way, you have to be a loser when you... If your answer is no, you're a lame duck and you can't get anything done. Your answer is yes, then they interpret everything as being political and oppose you. But you haven't been... I mean, I'm thinking about... Not so much about are you going to announce next week or next month or that. Have you been thinking about whether or not you want to spend four more years so that you can hardly ever get to the ranch? I mean, have you been thinking about that? That would not be part of the influence. I always said that people tell you whether you should run or not. So I think all of these times and out with the public as I am, I know that many in the press interpret that as vote-seeking. They've never stopped to think that, first of all, it's a chance to communicate what you're trying to do, but also it's a chance to see what the people are thinking. Whatever you decide to do on this, do you... Do you want to retire to the ranch eventually? I mean, if there's two terms or if you want to run for governor in California, get after that. Oh, no. This is the last hurrah. But no, I don't think that Nancy and I, we've always had a ranch and we've always had a ranch within range that we go to. And so I think we would prefer having a... I can't see me sitting on the front porch in a rocking chair. I think that we would always have a home and the ranch. But then anyway, I just wanted to give you the start of the place. So I decided on the telephone pole fence and that's what we built and it looks very rustic. Yeah, it does. So there are other things. You always have chores because, for example, we'd be surprised, the pruning that we've done in some of the woods because it had never been done and you'd have difficulty walking for them, let alone riding a horse through them. So every once in a while, you'd pick out a place and you start pruning to the point that you can ride your horses and then you've got a new place to ride. If I blindfolded you and brought you out there and set you someplace in the middle of those 600 acres, do you think you'd know... Could you locate it exactly? Do you know it that well? Nancy wouldn't. Well, she's not out cutting verses much of your life. I wanted to get into a little bit about... We're told that you get briefings sent to you your national security briefing on paper form frequently and that you make phone calls back and forth and essentially that part of the morning when you catch up on what happened overnight, is that the main part that you devote to getting the work but the day's business out and then they come back and forth if other things happen? Well, usually start the day and try to knock that first report off because there might be things in there that need instant attention. But the job goes with you wherever you are and even here in the hotel. And there's always a... Yesterday I signed a stack of bills on the plane down in Seattle. There are things, there are decision papers that come and I sandwich them around if some have been brought down to the house while we're writing then that interval for lunch and all and I get at those and go back out to the other and of course there are, yes, their phone calls. Well, just to understand the process a little bit on like new things occurring while you're at the ranch. On Sunday when the whole Barbara Honecker fuss and the, you know, the 50 state project came up, did you do you get a copy of that story? Did you talk to Larry about it? I get all the news, they have a full news like a clipping service. I get all that that comes in in the morning the first thing. So you would see something like that and then what would you do? I keep the horse. Oh, you keep the horse! But if you wanted to say this is terrible I need to find out about that. Yep. I get on the phone and say what is this, what's going on? In this case, did you do that? What? Because you were already coming Sunday here you waited? No, no, right then I wanted to know. I get the answers. And if you wanted someone to do something in relation to that that is, you know I want to talk to this woman or something could they, would they you then transmit that to somebody here like Jim Baker and he would set it up again? Yes. And the same sort of situation on the Marcus thing you found out about that right away Yes. I know virtually instantly on that so I know the State Department is on that. Do you, do you save decisions do you put in the back of your mind like major decisions and say when I get out to the ranch I'm going to think about this one I mean you know the way people compartment wise things There are well there are decisions in which the timing is determined by whether I need the time to make the decision or whether it's a decision that you because of things that are going on you want to wait they, and everyone does and says well you know this is going on and this and we're getting a word from so-and-so and maybe there's some controversy between various departments about it and you want to wait and hear all of their reports and it doesn't change your schedule I always say okay I'll settle that The ranch is in the sort of place where you say where you deliberately say this is so isolated everyone isn't harassing me here I can ride for several hours and think about this yes you can it's very yes it's a daily routine isn't there can you give me one example of some decision that you really thought out there a number of them that's why I couldn't just pick one there's a number of them that I've done that on and for example knowing that you're coming here and knowing that it's one facing you and finally with all the routine going on there yes you say I'll put that aside I'll take that to the ranch with me and now let's get out of the daily business I promise not to ask any non ranch questions can I ask you one question about women yes do you why are you so misunderstood on this issue if you think you're misunderstood yes I do but I think part of it is very deliberate and political I think in the 19th between the 1982 election it was made apparent that some of those who are most active in this are most active if it's on behalf of the Democratic candidates and let me just point out we had some fine Republican women candidates and they didn't get any help or support even though they were in well it was in Fenwick as an example and so I think this is part of it but if they look back the California record I don't know of anyone else in the country that did this yes it is true that I happen to disagree about the people rights amendment but not because I think it would give women something of value to them I'm surprised that more of them have not looked at how much mischief could be done brought about by men that could take advantage of that and say hey you can't make me do this because labor regulations and so forth are definitely there for the benefit of women I could see some trouble making men mischief makers just say well look I don't have to do that they don't have to do that the same would be true military but mainly the main thing is as I see it it would put things in the hands of the courts that belong in the hands of the legislature if you thought there was discrimination under that you would have to take you'd have to file a suit now what I said out in California when I was faced with this and finally came to that decision about that I said but there should be equality we started combing the statutes to find out where in state law might be based discriminations we found 14 laws that deliberately discriminated against women for example a wife with her own money could not invest that money without her husband's permission well that's ridiculous and so we got all these 14 changed then when I got to Washington I I'd been dreaming about this and wanted the state to have done it and I said let us in this whole federalism talk let us go to the states to the governors state legislature and see if they won't set up the same kind of operation we're all 50 states did now I understand if what Mr. Honecker said is right that maybe some of them have dallied and so forth once I persuaded them to do this you can't force them the states are sovereign in our system here but maybe there is more we could do to encourage them I'm coming what he's saying is what I said about 15 minutes ago now this was true but we also started the justice department on this combing the federal laws well that's quite a sizable undertaking and she is absolutely wrong in what she said about what we're doing there at the pace it has come in as I understand it in three very voluminous packets well out of the first one we have already submitted recommendations to Senator Dole who is following through now legislatively these things have to be done by legislation and there has been a kind of a full plate there for the legislature and you