 Welcome to NewsClick. We have with us senior journalist Basra Singh who's going to talk to us about the current political scenario and the role of media in a democracy. Welcome to NewsClick, ma. Yeah. Ma, you had written and you write a lot on the issues of the marginalized, the deprived, the minorities. Now, in this political scenario, how do you see the media space? Do you think it has changed from the previous years? I find that it's moving very regressive way. It's not like this that it has happened all of a sudden just in one night or in just last four years of the Modi regime. Media was not so helpful, not so responsive, not so sensitive to marginalized, issue of marginalized, be it farmer, be it Dalit women, Dalit human rights, human rights in general, rights of the Adivasis, or you say the communities which matter for this country, for whom the democracy is the most essential, most critical thing for them. So, but what happened in last four years that it has lost its spine completely? So now we can't say even if you see what has happened in Mumbai. I think it's one of the biggest news. It should be one of the biggest news. It can be covered as the scams which is happening in Maharashtra. Why after so much of lone behavior announcement, the farmers are so much in pain, why they are so much angry, what is happening at the level of the crops, why the farmers are throwing their crops, tomatoes, wheat, milk, everything. They are throwing everything on the road and we are getting a little bit of news. But when we want to cover, we don't want to see them. We are busy in discussing everything else in the world than the ground realities because what the farmers are doing right now is a political question. It's challenging to the shining India which the Modi regime is trying to build with bringing the France at one go, with Israel with one go, moving to the international tour. Everything is that India has become a very big power. So, one side is this picture, this perception which has been built up by the help of the media and the other ground reality is entirely different where the Dalas are being burnt alive in Rajasthan in Alwar. Two Dalas immediately just, it's not a matter that in one month is happening, it's just happening. So, what I find that right now it's almost like undeclared emergency. You talked about undeclared emergency, but in democracy, media is seen as a fourth pillar and we hear stories that during the emergency declared by Indira Gandhi's regime, the media played its role. Why do you think those ethics and its commitment to democracy is missing in these times? That's a very important question I think which is troubling to all of us. And if you see the media houses, the way they are operating, the way they have politically aligned with the ruling classes. I'm not saying ruling party, they are aligned with the ruling party but with the ruling class also they have aligned. The ownership of the media, who are the owners? All the owners want to go to Raj Sabha. A person from the Republic TV also got a place, they have gone. Zee is already on the role. If you just have an analysis that how the corporate media is just the Godi media of Mr. Modi. So at the level of the ownership, there is an alignment with the ruling party, with the RSS, because what I found that just now, few days back, the RSS had a huge program in Merritt. The way it was covered in the Hindi media, I have never noticed, I'm journalist from more than two decades, that you are running two pages, four pages, each and every news is very important for you what is happening, what Bhagwat is saying, and you are not worried about anything else in the world which is happening. The farmers on the street, I'm saying leave about the Maharashtra. The farmers are in streets, are in anger across the country. In Rajasthan they are, in Madhya Pradesh they have shown the anger. But the point is that right now the media and the independence of media is under huge, huge threat. It has not happened in the time of emergency also. The media is with you. Sometime it happens at Rajasthan Patrika, they made open announcement that unless and until Raje government take back that Adhyadesh ordinance, they will not publish anything about the government. That's a very brave step. I have not found any precedence from any other media house to show that kind of things. But rest of the media you will find that they are almost crawling to their masters. Media has a role for the marginalized. And if you see in the media spaces there's no, I mean coverage of the important news like you mentioned about say the atrocities on the Dalits or even the lynchings of the Muslims, Muslim minorities. So what do you think, I mean is the way out? Because do you think that media has to have guidelines and it has to follow those ethics or I mean it is, I mean people say that the argument is that it is a consumer product. Before it was an institution. Now what the consumers want we are giving it as a product. Do you see there is a change in the... So, but I find that this is a very interesting argument which has been built. That Darshak vahee dekhna chahate hain. Isli hum dikhah rahe hain. If you remember Bhutpreet ki kahaani pehle haati thi ki yaha par Baba mile, vaha wo khuni mode hain, ish tara ki. All the sensational, this kind of sensational news was there. And it has been a long, that's what I'm saying it has not happened this kind of a degeneration that Sambit Patra becomes an anchor. It doesn't happen overnight. So, it has been a degeneration like this. Finally, if the marginalised come out, suppose we talk about Dalits. There are two very important things which I want to share with you. Chandrasekhar Ramad is in jail. Saharanpur. Elections are there, by elections are happening. What, how the constancy is feeling. Whether there is some resonance of the Chandrasekhar because Bhima army is not a small thing. It has its impact and it was a political challenge. That's why Yogi government planted whole his force to put behind Chandrasekhar even he got the rail. But it should be a big news for the media. Why not? It has to be a big news for everyone. But who is going to take that challenge? Because if you take, if you talk about Chandrasekhar Ramad, he comes to the Delhi. Later his comrades come to Delhi. So, if you show them, you interview them, then politically you are giving a challenge to the right-wing thought process which is dominating. So, that kind of courage how many media groups have right now. Secondly, come to the issue of the manual scavenging. Now with the whole journey of the Safai Karamchari Andolan and rest of the friends who have been working for elimination of manual scavenging in the country. What has happened that now, there is a news. You can't ignore if any person dies in a sewer in the septic tank cleaning. You have numbers also, which media loves. From January 2018 to one week or ten days, eight people died, ten people died. These numbers, we are not collecting it. As a media person, we are not collecting it. The people from the community, the organization from the community they are collecting and they are giving to you. It's a big news. It comes one day when the death is there. You tell me how much follow-ups are there? What has happened to that family? Whether the Supreme Court judgment is being implemented in the country. Whether it should not be a concern for a democracy. In Vasanth Kunj, Chandran died two years before. What has, if you ask how many people know that Vasanth Kunj, there was a septic tank. A person was killed inside. Whether the government gave ten lakhs or not. Whether the woman got some compensation from the side of the government. And whether the culprits are being booked or not. This is how we treat the issues of the marginalize. So what I find that it's a very easy go that when the marginalize come with full power. When there are blisters in the, they can show the blisters. There is a blood. One day a big photo shot. That also times of India and the rest of the, if you see the today's times of India, they have just put in the brief with one photo. And through media, the perception is built across the country. That France has come to us. We are hugging them hardly. And we are moving ahead. So that's the scene which is right now happening. And I think that this divide is widening the ground reality. Once the farmer comes to you, then anyhow you have to consider, because Fadnavis has to address the issue. So that much you can't ignore. So that's where I find that the democracy is vibrant. Because the marginalize have not lost the hope that they can find the justice in this given structure. They are still coming, still struggling, still making their voices and forcing you to listen. So there lies the ray of hope. And I think that different alternative media houses, social media, everything has emerged. And that's giving a vacuum also. That's giving a space for us also that at least these issues can be raised. That was my next question. So how do you see in this corporate media, which is only catering to the business houses, the profit or the capital is important. But how do you see in this space, social media is playing a major role through the internet. So how do you see the role of social media actually being a consign's keeper of the mainstream media? Do you think it has some role? Yeah, I think there only the hope lies. And finally, you will have maximum journalists who are concerned to the real ethos of democracy. They are inclined toward these kind of social media networks or the websites which are running. And a huge news flood is also there. And you will have videos of atrocities. You will have videos of the whole movements also, whatever the different voices are coming. And I think this is a sign of relief for many of us. But what I find the problem is that we should not feel very happy about it. This is not a happy sign. Because if you feel that any person should have the internet to see all these news which are there on the websites, so we are also living in an illusion. Because this is almost a crowd of converted which comes to the some specific websites. Right now we can't expect that the person in the village should come to that website, should see it can happen once in a while. But the perception is built on the daily basis. The attack of fascism, the attack of this big capital is on the daily basis. And the newspaper is coming to you. You are not going to newspaper. The TV channel is coming to you. You are not going to the TV channels. But for the website, the person has come to you. For the WhatsApp they have to come to you. And there is a need of the internet connection. There is a need of that kind of a phone also. And majority of the marginalized, and if you see the age bar also, they can't be reached. So what I find that we have to push our agenda and we have to make this mainstream media also accountable through the pressures of the social media or these kind of websites. Because if it is a big news, even in the brief times of India has to put, even in the somehow that there was a chaos in the city, they have to put that the farmers, the workers have come to the city. So those, both the things, we should not leave them open that you are okay, whatever you want to do, you do. We have to keep them banging because that's the space which we should try to capture. Only then the justice can be done. Otherwise we will build an illusory word that we have messaged on WhatsApp, we have messaged on our website. There has been a lot of debate on that. The son of Amisha has become like this. But then the march of the Amisha and the Jay Shah will not be stopped. Coming with also the social media, the challenge of fake news comes in. So as a journalist in the mainstream media or in the traditional media, was there a scope for fake news but then we hear of planted news, paid news. So there was no fake news that was there but only planted news. So how do you think what should be the corrective mechanism to control fake news in social media? I think this is a very big danger. It's not a small thing which we can because now whatever pratikshina in alt news and rest of all the people who are doing to just put a check and bring out okay, this is not the video, this is not the right thing, this is not the right news, whatever. But their reach is very limited. My only concern is that once anything comes on the WhatsApp and we have seen how it happens in the Jharkhand. I feel that that was just the testing point. That you just put that these are the people who are going to come to take away your children or something like this and there's a lynching. So what I find that now this challenge of the fake news is thousand times bigger than the paid news because they are instigating into a mob lynching. Right now this fake news and one side the fake news is there and the other side the hate mongers are there. Or the people who are just openly coming and challenging the whole constitutional network of this country. So there is a threat from all side what you find. So how we are going to counter this, this is the biggest question right now for every person who loves in this country, who loves the diversity of this country, who has faith in the constitution and the democracy. So I think all those people who want to protect this democracy which is our democracy, which is our democracy, which is our democracy, these are the biggest threats which are the fastest forces they unleash the attack from multiple sides. They just don't come one fake news, one WhatsApp, one Ravi Shankar, one Ramdev. They will all come from the different fields and they basically want to kill the diversity, kill the freedom of speech because they are so much afraid that the people are speaking truth. Otherwise why there is a need to kill Gauri Lankesh? There is no need of killing Gauri Lankesh and then all the rationalists because they find that there are still people who are not afraid of them. I was in Gujarat and I was feeling pain about this. So many people were there during the election. People from the minority are saying that nobody wants to talk about us. Nobody wants to talk about 2002 genocide because then they are afraid that this will have a different kind of Hindu mobilization. Everybody wants to become Udaar Hindu. They will say I am a Hindu. I am not that kind of Hindu but I am a Hindu. Why? Why we are not in a condition to say that I am atheist even you don't say you are atheist. Why you can't say that I am an Indian? I am a citizen of this country. I have given a right by the constitution but you will find that right now that kind of a discourse that main political party or position party also feels threatened that if they have much more Muslim candidates than what is going to happen. So this kind of a political right-wing shift as it has happened in the economy with the economic discourse in the 90s that has happened when the whole liberalization started coming to India. So if you want to talk about the... If you are a progressive you have to talk about the growth. You have to talk about the GDP growth. All that kind of right-wing economic shift has happened from that 90 onwards. And same with the growth of the Modi and the RSS and the Bhagava Brigade. Now you will find that there is a right-wing shift to the political diction. We are living in a very difficult and different times. So we have to build our strategy also if we want to save the media, save the constitution. Then we have to build up and make the space for the marginalize and the real issues life till we take our breath I think. That's it. Journalist Basha Singh says that multiple ways we are being attacked but she also says that from different angles if people come together and have the agenda of the marginalized and their issues being talked about democracy can be strengthened and maybe we can pose a challenge to the right-wing forces. Thank you. Thank you ma'am.