 Hey, everybody. We're live. And Sarah's not here. What? I mean, she's here. Oh, hang up. It's not here. I was like, did it not work? The only thing is that you cut out a little bit here and there and I just it's okay because I can pick it up. I don't want my audio to do that. Yeah, yeah. It's okay to you. I mean, knock on wood, right? Okay. Cut out a little bit for me now, but I'm in the Paris office of DTNS. So right, right. The trade embargo on some of Sarah's packets. Is it just me that's cutting out? Because Patrick, you just cut out a little bit too. Well, out to the old anymore. So I don't know what's happening. I think we'll just have to deal Patrick did cut out for me for a second there. What one of those delay like well, and then it caught up. Okay. And then Rob just disappeared. I'm back. He's back. I was testing on my disappearing superpowers. It was good. It worked. Yep. I now how to vanish. I now know how to vanish and how to become silent. I wish I knew how to become silent. I think a lot of people right now. You mean a lot of people wish wish they knew how to make you silent? Yes, that's kind of where I was headed with that. No, I'm a lot of people can make wish they knew how to make you never shut up the opposite. That sounded weird. It was good. So I appreciate it. Thank you. You're welcome. Alright, are you guys ready? Yeah, I'm just making sure I'm killing so hesitant. He is what we answer on this show people. Have you learned nothing? No, I did one thing. All right. I'm ready whenever you are, Tom. Let's roll then here we go. Three, two, the Daily Tech News show is powered by its listeners not outside organizations. If you get value from the show, consider giving a little back as little as a dollar a month keeps great tech news and analysis coming your way commercial free. Find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash support. Daily Tech News Show for Tuesday, October 3rd, 2017. I'm Tom Merritt from DTS headquarters in Los Angeles. And in San Francisco on assignment. I'm Sarah Lane. Patrick Beja coming to you live from the Paris International offices of DTNS. Also joining us today is author of After On Rob Reed. Rob, I didn't ask if it was okay to say where you are coming from. I'm leaving in from sunny New York City. Ah, fantastic. So we are really spanning the globe. We're kind of concentrated on one continent, but we've got two under the under our belts here. It's not too bad. Yeah, we're going to talk about the Windows mixed reality announcements. Talk with Rob, who's written a novel that involves VR and talked with some VR experts about his perspectives on them. Producer Roger Chang, are we go for launch? Yes. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. Former Intel CEO Paul Odellini died Monday. Odellini joined Intel in 1974 and was the company's fifth CEO from 2005 to 2013. He was the first CEO of Intel that hadn't been an engineer. Uber CEO, Darak Harashahi met with Transport for London Tuesday. Uber and TIL called the meeting constructive. And more steps will be taken in the coming weeks to resolve the issue of Uber's permit to operate in London. Sony Interactive Entertainment president Andrew House announced he will resign from the company after more than 20 years. Deputy President Tuyoshi John Coder will take over her house effective immediately, though House will stay on through the end of 2017 to ease the transition. He'll stay in the house. Oh, it's you, sir. This is supposed to be me. We're just still getting used to this. Facebook's Messenger for light Messenger light for Android rather has launched in Ireland, the UK, Canada and the US. Messenger light offers the core messaging features but uses less data. Messenger light is now available on Android in more than 100 countries overall. Okay, dope. Let's get into some more top stories in depth. Well, shallow death as part of the Waymo lawsuit against Uber report has been made public from Stross Friedberg, a computer forensics firm which was hired to investigate auto as part of the due diligence that's needed before Uber would acquire it. Now, this report is a bombshell. It found that auto co-founder Anthony Lewandowski did access Google files related to driverless cars. He after he left Google including some emails but did not show that Uber received or used any of this information. Lewandowski told Stross he found five disks of Google info from a Drobo he used at home, but he said he didn't realize he had them. It's from just natural business use when you're working from home and he shredded them. So Stross went to the shredder in Oakland could not verify that they had in fact been shredded by Lewandowski. The report also describes communications and behavior implying auto employees were deleting information and communications ahead of and during Stross' investigation and keep in mind Uber hired Stross to do this. This is all part of a friendly negotiation. There's one story here that Lewandowski emptied his trash while they were in the process of interviewing about about what was on his laptop. Judge William Alsup has delayed the beginning of the trial until December 4th to give Waymo more time to review the materials. This is totally insane. First of all, where's the shredder in Oakland? Jesus, I'd go and like to start looking through stuff and be industrially shred stuff to that very facility. There aren't a lot of drive through shredders. And if you want to get a disk really shredded, I've done it a couple of times. When I've had a laptop that I was done with and I just wanted that disk to no longer exist or an external drive, you know, as they age and they become obsolete really quickly, I've been to that place in Oakland, and they've got these big honking machines and you can say I want to physically see it get shredded and you can see it get shredded. I'm not saying he actually went. There seems to be a lot of question about that. I mean, could having been there, would it be easy to drop something off and not be tracked? Oh, God, yeah, I mean, it'd be easy to drop off five discs and have them shred it and then sign your name allegedly, which is apparently what happened on the receipt that he presented. I mean, the fact that, you know, he may or may not have brought five discs there says nothing about whether they were the discs in question, you know, it's a very, it's almost like going to the dump in terms of its sort of aesthetics and, you know, speediness, zippiness, utilitarian feel. But you're supposed to get your name recorded in the in their ledger, whatever. I don't remember getting recorded. I have a bunch of old tax not tax stuff and credit card stuff and I just paid cash and got my stuff shredded and didn't have any burning need for them to know how to reach me in the future. And that wasn't a scam. It wasn't a requirement. I guess it is a little bit, it's starting to be a little bit, you know, if it was just that, it would be, yeah, sure, he could have gone there and paid cash and whatever. But it's also that and the fact that there were suspicious, there was suspicious behavior when they were interviewing them and deleting stuff. And it's starting to form a obviously nothing definitive, but somewhat suspicious picture overall. Yeah, and Google is going to our Waymo is going to try to use that in court to cast doubt on assertions. But so far, there's no hard evidence here. So it'll be interesting what else they're able to pull out of that, they have a little extra time. Yeah, but you know, it's juries and judges do convict on circumstantial evidence all the time. I mean, we're trained by TV, because they say, Oh, that's just circumstantial to assume that circumstantial doesn't count for anything. But there are convictions on very serious crimes with major penalties that are done on circumstantial mean, one of the most powerful circumstantial cases here, or facts here, unless I'm mistaken, I've seen multiple citations that Uber actually negotiated the purchase of auto before the guy left Google. So basically, like you're working at Google, we're negotiating the company, the purchase of a company you have yet to start for a staggering sum. They must have thought he was coming to something. I don't know. So will a Waymo lawyer lean over Anthony Levandowski or an Uber employee because Levandowski is taking the fifth and say, who ordered the code shred? Well, we're on the subject of Waymo in a longer piece about the company. The information has some sources that say the company plans to begin offering service with no human test drivers in Phoenix, Arizona, sometime this autumn. So truly autonomous vehicles. The article claims the engineers are against the accelerated timeline being pushed by Waymo CEO John Kraft sick and parent company Alphabet executives, Larry Page and Sergey Brant. I don't know they can get approval to do this even in Arizona. Can they? Yeah. That was the first question that went through my mind. This doesn't seem it doesn't seem like this is the kind of thing that governments or administrations would, you know, rush to to approve. I mean, Arizona is super friendly about this stuff. But yeah, sure. But no human tests. I mean, no human test drivers. They're doing human tests right now. But are those sorry? I mean, yeah, no, no human drivers. There's a very pragmatic problem with this scenario. And this is just sort of a rumor, right? I mean, we're not they haven't announced this. I mean, the very practical problem is every sophisticated observer of this industry that I've ever talked to has said when driverless is allowed, it's going to be allowed incrementally. Like it might be only in the daytime and only in these 100 blocks of a city that are extremely well known and no left turns. And then later, like a sunrise and sunset. And then later, okay, another 100 blocks. There has never been a suggestion that they're going to just sort of throw open wide the service and allow driverless cars to take passengers without test drivers all over the place at once. And so if way when we're to launch a service without having an enormous inventory of drivers to backfill, I mean, imagine if the customer service experience is, Hey, I want a car. Oh, where are you going? And 19 times out of 20 or even one time out of five. The answer is we don't get to do that. So the notion of something launching in the near future with no drivers at all is just ludicrous. The explanation for this could be closed course. This is going to be on campus something like what new tony means been doing in Singapore that it could be not as much as it seems. I love how the article and yes, this is speculation, although the information usually has pretty good sources saying that engineers are very uncomfortable with this thing being pushed by, you know, the executives alphabet, just because of the, you know, huge threat of imminent danger when you think about not being able to override a car. It's just really hard for me to believe that Larry and Sergey are sitting in a room just being like, tell those engineers to shut up. Let's just do it. Imagine if you're going to the airport having just read an article about how all the engineers at Boeing were saying it's a really bad idea to ship this product and the executive said, now just throw it out there. That would not be good marketing. All right, Microsoft announced plans to close Groove Music. Microsoft will continue the service through the end of 2017, but is encouraging users to migrate playlists to Spotify. Music saved to OneDrive will be, will, will still be available to users after the shutdown and users who prepaid for the service past 2017 will be reimbursed. Microsoft launched the service as Xbox Music in 2012 and rebranded to Groove Music in 2015. So I'm officially pouring one out for Groove Music. I'm not sure we, you know, it really, I might anger some people here, but I'm not sure it deserves the, like, is it really, is anyone going to miss Groove Music? I mean some people, sure. That one Zoom user out there sure is. Exactly. It feels like the one service that wasn't really being talked about all that much. Everyone talks about, you know, Apple Music Spotify, Google Music, Amazon Music, like many, many, many of them have been discussed in the past couple of years. I don't remember hearing Groove Music mentioned in that context once. I'd forgotten that, that Groove Music was once called Xbox Music. And I have to say, why didn't they just keep it called Xbox Music? There's something very dated about Groove Music. I, I, I can't imagine, given all of my choices, that that would be the one that I would choose. Like, the name alone just sounds like something my, sorry mom, mom would say. I have an embarrassing confession. Yes, I was founder of Rhapsody. Yeah, so years and years ago, I founded Rhapsody, which was the first one of these, you know, unlimited streaming services. And I like to think that I'm still very attuned to what's going on in the field. This is the very first time I personally have even heard of Groove Music. I think that that pretty much sums it up, right? Ireland's High Court said Tuesday it will ask the European Court of Justice for preliminary ruling on the legality of the recently reconstructed arrangement that makes it easy for companies in the U.S. to transfer European user data between the two regions. A complaint led by Max Schrems caused the previous agreement to be thrown out. They had to build it up from scratch. A new agreement was put in place. That's now being tested in court. The question is whether enough is done to prevent European user data from falling under U.S. surveillance. Now the court is expected to rule on the implementation of the agreement by particular companies, not the overall agreement. So the smart money is, we don't think they're going to toss it out again, but they may put more restrictions on companies about how they implement it. Patrick? So you're not, sorry. It's really interesting because this is starting to be a thing that I've seen in the past, I would say 12 to 18 months, a trend going from well, this is how they operate, we can't really do anything, to well, taxes are too complicated, you would have to have like 20, however many people agree to change things, but now the topic of tax on those big companies is being discussed very seriously, and there's a clear desire on, and this is not just about Ireland, but you know, it's one of the main culprits in those discussions. There's a clear desire to find a way to prevent these kinds of fiscal restrictions on the part of those big American internet companies. So I'm not sure exactly what's going to happen in this case specifically, but I thought it was a good opportunity to mention the fact that now things are getting really serious, and it seems that the momentum has shifted from well, we'll see what happens, to they should, we should find a way to make it work. Fair enough. Moving on to Google, or back to Google really, Google launched Street View Ready, which lets anybody with an authorized 360 camera submit images to the Google Street View database. Now Insta360's 8K 360 camera, which is going to run about 3,500 US dollars, is the first to be certified, so it's not just any old camera, not just yet. Users will be able to control the camera from within Street View though, and Insta360 will ship a USB accessory, if you happen to have one of those cameras, that can add GPS data to captured images. So this is very cool that they're allowing for people who are, let's say that you're on an archaeological project, right? You want this 360 camera for all kinds of things, you're like, oh, and let's submit to Street View, so people can like walk around the dig and see what's happening. That's one of the kinds of examples they were giving, but yeah, this isn't like, hey, everybody run out and drop 3,500 bucks on a 360-degree camera capable of living up to Google standards for its Street View program. Right, and just even if they were saying that, not a lot of people are going to do that. No, definitely not. Still cool. But I do like it, I like that they're opening it up. Hey, folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes, be sure to subscribe to DailyTechHeadlines.com, available as a podcast on the Amazon Echo in the Anchor app, and the Anchor version is available on Google Home. And that's a look at our top stories. Microsoft had its Fall Autumn Creators Windows Mixed Reality update. I'm sure they called it something slightly better than that. It was held today, and it was the last announcements before October 17th when the new Windows Fall Update, or Windows Autumn Update, if you're in the UK, shows up. On that day, we'll ship all these new Windows Mixed Reality headsets. And of course, Windows 10 will start supporting Windows Mixed Reality. Samsung was the big surprise announcement at this place. HMD Odyssey is a room-scale VR headset for Windows from Samsung. And if you're like, okay, yeah, I heard about the Acer and the Dell and the HP Lenovo, they're all pretty much the same specs. Samsung outdid them. Two 1440x1600 AMOLED displays, 90 hertz refresh rate, 110 degree field of view inside-out tracking, a built-in mic for Cortana and built-in AKG headphones, plus the Windows motion controllers, for 500 bucks. So a little bit nicer Oculus Rift for the price of an Oculus Rift coming November 6th, pre-orders today. What do you guys think of this? Rob, let's start with you. I'm curious. Well, I don't know. I mean, I think it isn't radically better than the Rift, as you said. And I think that there is just so much friction when the price starts with anything that's higher than a two. And ideally, if it starts with something that's higher than a one, if you're looking for mass, mass adoption, and great as the hardware is, I just don't think there's going to be an avalanche of people over to this until the titles and the content are draw folks in, because that's what's happened really with every platform we've ever seen take off. It's the presence or absence of killer apps that really drive it. And this, this seemed like good. I mean, and you might know this, you probably know the specs better than me. You, as you said, it's a better Oculus Rift, but not crazy better. Is it or is it? You know, Patrick, what do you think? I mean, I don't think it's crazy better. It depends on how you define crazy, but yeah, it's just a little better. It's getting to the point where, I mean, to the specs where you're thinking, this is a good VR headset. Like this is actually something that can provide the kind of experience you want for extended use. But the most striking thing here is that we're still in a place where hardware wise, if you want to have a really capable piece of hardware, then you're going to have to shell out the round 500 bucks, right? And this is what has happened with the HTC Vive and with the Oculus Rift. We're in the same price range or less now that they have been discounted a little bit. And so, I mean, Samsung is trying to get a foot in the actual full VR headset, VR slash AR headset market, as well as their initiative with the Gear VR on the mobile front. But this is not going to change a lot. I will say, however, I haven't looked at all of the other headsets from the other manufacturers, the Dell HP Lenovo you mentioned, but my feeling was all of them were less expensive and so the specs were a little bit less high. So this gives Windows Mixed Reality its high end Oculus Rift comparable headset and they needed that, I guess. From the company competing for the company partnering with Oculus on the Gear VR. Yeah. Let's take a look at some of the other announcements here. Announced developer access to Windows Mixed Reality Steam VR preview so the developers can test their games to make sure that they work well because Windows 10 Mixed Reality will support Steam VR. So you'll be able theoretically to run all the Steam VR games on these headsets. So developers can start testing that out. Now consumers won't get access to that right on October 17th. Microsoft just said it'll happen by the holidays. So hopefully by the time you get one of these for a holiday present, you'll be able to at least join the preview to test Steam VR games. But that's an important thing for Microsoft to be able to beef up the catalog of VR apps that their headsets can take advantage of. They did announce Halo Recruit for VR coming October 17th from 343 Industries. It's not a full game, but you get to sort of walk around the Halo universe in VR. If you want to walk around other things in VR, they acquired Alt Space VR. Those are the folks that did the presidential debates in VR for NBC last year. They're kind of a rival to Facebook Spaces. And Alt Space VR is currently accessible with Google Daydream, Gear VR, Oculus Rift and HTC Vive. It's been cross-platform. One would assume that Windows Mixed Reality will be added to that. It'll be interesting to see if Microsoft holds to its recent openness and leaves it on these other platforms. But Sarah, I mean, Microsoft really trying to move in and say we're the place for VR. Do you think it's going to succeed? Well, I don't know, but I don't think that any other company can claim that they've sort of figured out the market yet. It's such an emerging space and the common complaint that I hear needs clunky or it's expensive or expensive and clunky or there aren't enough games slash experiences yet and oh, it makes me nauseous. You know, there's, I hear the same things over and over even though there are new, there's new hardware obviously today is a good example of that coming to the space. But I don't see any reason why Microsoft can't be the leader here. This. Then it's a ball game. Yeah, yeah, I don't, I can think of things I'd rather do than experience a presidential debate in VR. Yeah. But, but, you know, it's just one example. Sure, you know, they're trying stuff out. That's cool. Yeah, I for years personally felt that Microsoft was like constitutionally incapable of any innovation whatsoever. They simply picked applications that were on their platform, either bought or strangled the innovators, put out a second rate form and of it and then bundled it with Windows or their servers or something until along came the Xbox. And, you know, hats off to them, you know, that was that wasn't remains an amazing platform in which they've done an amazing amount of innovation. And there's a certain adjacency. I mean consoles clearly in VR because VRs can be very much about gaming. And so I definitely don't count them out here. And I also think, you know, going over to the AR space briefly, there's a lot of things that are really impressive about the HoloLens. Probably I'm not as crazy about it as some other headsets that I've tried in the aggregate, but they've really leveraged a lot of the technology that invested in heavily with the connect. Now this is an AR space, but AR will be part of mixed reality by definition. They're really, really good at snapping virtual objects that you are meant to see in the physical space that you're inhabiting on that table or on that wall and keeping them there. And I understand that that's something that they've leveraged from connect. So between connect and the other things they've shown us in the broader Xbox universe and the really heavy investment that they've been making in the AR side of mixed reality longer than most. And with more impressive products than most, I think this could actually be a place where they really show a lot of leadership and that'd be cool. Competition is a great thing and any new platform. Well, what I find fascinating is how they've opened up the hardware manufacturing to multiple vendors. Right? It's not just you get a Microsoft HoloLens and that's the end of the story if you want Microsoft mixed reality. And they're kind of doing what kind of propelled IBM PC through the home home computer market of the 80s when you literally had seven to eight different competitors all running similar but not the same architecture and they're mutually incompatible with each other. And you became dominant because it became such a commodity object, right? The prices came down to such an extent that while the PC wasn't the best at gaming or certain things graphics or anything, it was cheap enough for a multitude of people to buy into it thereby creating kind of a just a huge user base that allowed them to leverage and by them I just mean the PC PC industry to leverage forward no different things with Microsoft moving into multimedia CD-ROM eventually internet and a bunch of other stuff but you know when you looked at you know when you kind of see the same thing with Google where you have a multitude of different companies making Android devices whether it's tablets phones it's not just Google's Pixel phone and that's all you get. And so it's interesting because you know you have Apple's where they're vertically integrated we're going to produce a hardware we're going to produce the software we're going to produce the experience that's all going to be within our ecosystem ecosystem. Microsoft says well you know we're going to be the gardeners this is our garden but you know you guys can come in and plant your eggplants your roses or whatever in our garden but you know as long as you you know keep to the the designated growers we're all going to be good and everything should work together cross your fingers. And this is especially true for this area of VR because we've had now headsets for 18 months or so and it seems by most people's accounts the thing that have been holding them back is the lack of interoperability. There are too many ecosystems for technology to take off so Microsoft could be the one that brings them together and makes it work. Hey thanks to everybody who participates in our subreddit you can submit stories and vote on them at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com keep this conversation going we uh we keep talking in the post show on Facebook at facebook.com slash groups slash Daily Tech News Show and more. Let's check in with Mike Range if you don't know Mike he's hilarious and he does a monthly look at the tech topics we talk about Mike. Hi I'm Mike Range and with September now over it's time for the monthly tech views to look back at the month's big tech stories and hope enough time is passed for you to not be quite sure which facts I'm lying about. For example Walmart is partnering with Smart Lockmaker August to test a service that would have groceries not just delivered to your home but put away inside your home just imagine and through as the Walmart spokesman you give the delivery person a one-time code to unlock your door and have access to your house and you save all kinds of time that can be used to figure out a way to ditch the budget meeting at work and hover over your computer watching like a no-dose fueled hawk the intricate network of webcams you install to make sure the delivery person doesn't step on the cat or drink your beer or eat a two-fingered scoop a peanut butter or spit in your milk or pick their nose before putting your apples in the fridge for more probably less disgusting stories check out the full monthly tech views at DailyTechNewShow.com Thank you Mike Range our messages of the day first one comes from Anonymous who says I've been following the story of Equifax and being an application developer myself I have a story that happened with me you won't believe it he didn't write that he said a couple years ago I was working as a Java developer for a subcontractor who provided development services for a known bank in Europe the team in which I worked was composed of around seven other Java developers and a project manager each with a different experience and approach for development and bug fixing with no real standards to follow and our job was to implement new features from time to time fix bugs that were reported through a bug tracking system that's the important part of his story banking system was at least six to seven years old with at least 80 to 100 people who worked on it it was a mess full of bugs during one of the bug fixes I was doing I discovered another small bug that nobody knew about so I reported it to my supervisor when he checked and found it had not been reported in the bug tracking system he told me to ignore it and don't do anything unless someone reported it his point of view was that the bug passed the verification phase that the bank's own IT department did when the feature was requested and if we fixed it without them reporting it the subcontractor would not be able to bill for that job I was not satisfied with that response and thankfully not long after that I quit the job surely many other big names follow this strategy until they fall yikes yeah it's the thing is this is kind of terrifying and at the same time not surprising which is even more terrifying yeah sadly that's true got another email from Jeff Jeff is a new associate producer associate producer on patreon so thank you Jeff from sunny Salem, Oregon I don't know if that's supposed to be a joke or not it rains a lot there I heard your discussion about Linux market share says Jeff and thought my anecdotal evidence as a fifth grade teacher might be of use and the last two years there's been a dramatic increase in the number of use of Chromebooks at my school last year six Chromebooks carts has 36 Chromebooks in each cart were purchased for the school at the start of the year an additional six carts were purchased so that means each classroom of older students at my school is able to have their own cart and we don't have to share this has made it significantly easier to use Chromebooks which my students use every day now in the classroom teachers are also growing much more comfortable with the Chromebook model and their preferred strategy and their preferred strongly by teachers and students over Windows computers at the school at his school anyway love your show hope this helps shed some light on the market share discussion so earlier is another anecdote in that column of Chromebook use in schools is is causing that that Linux bump at net market share so thank you for that Jeff and thank you for being a new associate producer of the show more thanking let's thank Rob Reed Rob thank you for joining us I want to thank you personally for letting me come along for those first eight episodes of the after on podcast it was so much fun talking about the book with you and in fact if you had a recommendation for people who want to go back and listen to those what what are some of the great episodes you point out well just because we just talked about it the very first episode was about augmented reality and I talked to the CEO of a company called meta which is one of Microsoft Holo lenses fiercest competitors so that's pretty topical another one is actually episode two the later ones were good too but episode two is always fascinating to people who don't know much about it it is an interview a long interview with a scientist neuroscientist at UCSF who is creating video games that can actually potentially reverse the damage of horrors like Alzheimer's disease and ADHD and autism and so forth and he has a game in phase three FDA trials right now for ADHD and just the whole way that works with neuroplasticity and everything else is quite intriguing and because the book was about a super AI run amok the book that initially launched the podcast I'd say episode seven with James Barrett who wrote one of the two books that really began the dialogue about super AI risk that was just two weeks ago it's a little chilling but pretty fascinating and that was a book was pretty heavily validated because none other than Elon Musk basically tweeted it to prominence right after it first came out and of course you're going to continue on so those first eight episodes that I was on we were talking about your book but we've finished covering the book part now but you're having such a good time interviewing these people and you're getting such good interviews what's coming up on future episodes of After On yeah so actually today I posted my first episode that does not have a loose affiliation with the book and for folks who are thinking about going back the episodes are set up so if you haven't read the book it's not going to matter until the very very end when you can two out when Tom and I do have our conversation as soon as you hear my voice come back exactly so today's episode is an interview with Chris Anderson who was the editor-in-chief of Wired Magazine for 12 years and went on to found one of the most innovative and important drone companies in the world really called 3D Robotics and we talk all about drones and we also talk about his brief hitch as the bass player in a band called REM and you'll have to listen to find out if it was that REM or another REM but it's pretty interesting he's an amazingly accomplished guy and all the way to age 25 he was somebody who had flunked out of schools every school he'd gone to and was working as a bike messenger and living in a squat and playing bass in a band called REM and then he decided you know enough of all this he became a computational physicist and then a bunch of other things and editor-in-chief of Wired so that's pretty inspiring and then our conversation about drones is really intriguing and then just real quickly also in October next week got a great long interview with Tim O'Reilly who is a huge publisher in tech he's got a brand new book of his own coming out on on next Tuesday when the interview will go up he's a profoundly interesting thinker basic well there's a lot I could say about Tim but to keep it quick shortly after that the next week I'm going to talk to Sarah Parkak who invented the field pretty much almost almost entirely accurate of astroarcheology we were talking about in the VR thing about going around archaeological digs this is gazing at archaeological digs from space and finding looters and also finding new sites and after that it's going to be Chris Anderson another Chris Anderson this is the one who runs the TED conference we'll talk all about TED the week after that it's going to be gerontology superstar Aubrey de Grey who thinks he can help us all live forever in November I've got Ev Williams coming up founder of Twitter co-founder or founder of Medium and CEO of Medium Andy McAfee of MIT who has done a lot of work on the future of potentially mass unemployment with automation with a great book called The Second Machine Age and that's just a little bit about a dot coming up in October, November go check it out folks after-on.com slash podcast big thanks to Patrick Beja of course as always for being here anything new going on at Frenchspin.com I guess well I'll thank everyone who had some well wishes sent my way last week when I was a little bit ill so that was heartwarming to see as I was missing the show and on Frenchspin I guess the the Phidias Club we just had a couple of weeks ago an episode about Venezuela with someone who actually had to flee Venezuela now detailing the the reasons in the context of the crisis so I would invite anyone who's ever wondered about what's happening there it's interesting slash sad situation go check it out it's at Frenchspin.com thank you patrons for making it possible for us to not only do the show but to bring Sarah on every day to start DTNS labs which we'll have more details about we're going to have a round table show at the end of the month and we're traveling I'm going to be in London on Monday that's starting to fill up we also have Justin Robert Young hosting Daily Tech news show at LA PodFest with Darren Kitchen Jeff Kanata and Allison Sheridan so because of you we are able to do more the more you help us the better the show gets so we cannot thank you enough patreon.com slash DTNS our email address is feedback at dailynewshow at dailytechnewshow.com we're live Monday through Friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern time 20 30 UTC at alphageekradio.com and diamondclub.tv and our website of course is dailytechnewshow.com and I'm going to get that right tomorrow I promise back tomorrow with Scott Johnson he's got a story talk to you then this show is part of the frog pants network get more at frogpants.com Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program that was a good show thank you guys indeed thanks everybody I'm so excited for the fact that after on is continuing you've got a killer lineup Rob yeah I'm excited about this month and I'm going to be doing it's funny I've decided to do most of the interviews in person whenever possible so I am literally in the next eight or nine days going to Montreal because that's where our degree is going to be Birmingham Alabama because that's where Sarah Parkak is Boston because that's where Andy McAfee is I've also got unrelated trips to LA and Mexico City travel this month but I like like when I can to do the interviews in person it's not always possible no and it does help but believe me I know I just as you know I don't like to travel all that much I like to have traveled once I'm there I just don't like getting there and back daily would be a little tricky too a balance between how much you travel for work and I find that when I don't travel at all I start to get really antsy you know even just it's like you know I was working in on the east coast for work a few weeks ago and I was like it was a lot of work but I hadn't been to the east coast in a long time and so I felt like you know it's like I get a free trip but if I travel too much for work or even for fun I've had to go to a lot of weddings this year and a lot of them are in far away locations and which sounds great right it's a hard to complain about it sounds so great yeah it's like what could you possibly complain about but it takes it out of you yeah yeah all right what should we call this show Roger we have tops our driverless cars begin human testing well Microsoft Mixed Reality claims prove Microsoft never promised you a rose garden it's true they didn't oh I've got a nominee did you order the code shred I don't know who got that line but I did Tom and I loved it hey guys I am going to bounce so sorry gotta go back to my other thing of course of course I'll see you in the morning though and I guess I'm doing headlines too right oh yeah okay yes definitely that's right I mean yes you are I just forgot that that was the new reality hey Tom want me to do work that you would otherwise have to do tomorrow oh yes I know yes yes absolutely okay cool I'll talk to you guys later bye everyone bye that's right we have a bigger team I know there's three bodies now uh the Sarah three body problem this is a three body solution in this case right where's that from that was from your book no right no no it's title of a science fiction novel that I have that's such a lose yo yeah yeah yeah you know I like yeah I got it yeah yeah yeah Microsoft groovy mixed with reality did you order the code shred did you order the code shred was so good so why don't we just use that we'll make that all right that's I'm good with that especially because I said it especially because you said it it was brilliant it's a three body problem that was the the one by the sci-fi novel by the Chinese novelist yeah session sorry it's that's all right well I just I just said it you missed me here I'm saying it that's all it's fine Tom it's fine that's not a criticism these rods all the joints hurt why do you oh because prick every little they already hurt before from before from before yeah my joints were hurting after this weekend too all the moving stuff around in here it's a cruel master I am uh I'm committed to standing through my shows but once the show is over I am going to sit until I get used to this does it hurt your back or is it just it doesn't hurt my back no it just makes my legs tired I get in my hip in my feet but not my legs speaking of ailments are you feeling better Patrick yeah I'm still there's this weird cough I hate that when it lingers but yeah other than that do you still cough like um throughout the day a little bit like fetish like this like that yeah it happens oh god we shouldn't have brought it up we made it happen yeah see when you I was funny what did you do Tom you were fine we we ruined it I'm so sorry I think it might be psychosomatic because when I think of it I start coughing yeah it can be I gotta bounce myself I'm afraid I got a call in about nine minutes oh okay well thank you again Rob it was great having you back it's great to be back I'm always delighted to be on when you need a 19th person I love that you asked for that yeah well let's cool let's scheme on the next appearance soon absolutely yeah what you know maybe um I'll send you the list of who's coming on and if there's somebody that you think like wow that could spark a cool conversation maybe we could do that perfect awesome awesome all right thanks man thank you see you guys it is uh it is funny to me and I knew this was going to happen because it happened with seen at live where we stood to do that show it's funny just how stay how tiring standing can be yeah I I've stopped doing it you used to stand for all your shows no standing period yeah I yeah you know I have my stand-up desk and I used to do it for most of the shows and now I'm I can't be bothered so sometimes I do it but yeah it is tiring I do um I'm hoping my hope is that I'll get back in standing shape after a while it won't be that big of a deal if it's not too bad for your back then it's okay no it hasn't been so far and I've got good shoes I might get a map too just to help with that so far it's just been a leg is there a place we know Scott has control of yes text message that's it that well I don't want to go into it too much on the uh on the stream but yes you can get through them by text message anything else before we uh because I could share more with you about that after we shut down there's nothing yeah nothing left for the show well thanks everybody for watching you know we're off to to a a rollicking start here with Sarah Sarah having to travel I think we figured out her audio issues from Monday in her home studio so that should be fine tomorrow knock on wood with Scott Johnson who as you may have picked up from Patrick and I has a tail to tell or if you watch TMS this morning you already know but we will see you tomorrow everybody goodbye bye