 So, my name is Daniel. I am one of the organizer and volunteer at CYP in the Chinese Young Professional Network. And we were founded back in 2010, so it's been about 10 years now. And we are a 501C3 non-profit with 14,000 members, and also one of the largest young professional group for Chinese in North America. And our mission statement is to making sure that we can provide an opportunity for career-mined individuals for you to develop socially, professionally, and civically. And what it means to us is we have a lot of events, a lot of career opportunities, opportunity for exchange, you know, engineering information, networking, and also most importantly, having fun. So, there's, you know, as you can see from the video we had earlier, so there are a lot of awkward events, this portion right here, the ski trips, surfing classes, group hiking, whatever. We have in the east coast and also in the west coast. And also we have industry seminar, career development, and this is where this particular session is sitting. We are doing the negotiation at this point, and also we had leadership development about two weeks ago, actually no, a few weeks ago, and then we're going to have an influence session about a month from now. So, there will be more career development that's kind of agnostic to your profession coming up in the next few months. And also in the past. Green sharing is lost. Oh, you did this? Okay. It is still, mine is okay. Did it last for everyone? Come on the chat, it's lost. Mine's fine. Okay, let me just stop sharing. I think just one person is lost. Megan's, I think yours is lost. Everyone else is fine. Yeah, mine's fine as well. Yeah, maybe Megan can act yours. Okay, can you see my screen now? Yeah. Okay. Got it. All right. So, we're going to have more industry seminars as well. So, format typically was that we had offline events at MIT. This is the Boston based group. Also, I mean, like I mentioned, it's a nationwide as well. But we are going to have more virtual sessions in the coming month, given the current circumstance. And as you can also, you know, also see on the right side, if you're having to be in Boston, we also do a lot of competitive events in Dragon Ball racing, ballroom dancing and dance battles. So there's a lot of interesting, exciting offline events that if you're happened to be in Boston or being, you know, Southern California, there's a lot of opportunity for you to participate in. All right. And here is the group picture. And also most important, the WeChat session that you can have in the center. I think, okay, so I think there's might be some issues with my screen. One more second. Sorry. All right. There's a WeChat session or sorry, WeChat QR code and also pictures we have on the screen. So feel free to scan it and then follow our official accounts. All right. So without further ado, let's get into the actual session itself. The speaker is going to be Nancy. So she is currently a group, sorry, the director of product manager and also the group product managers at Verizon and mainly in charge of the cloud and edge computing. And in the past, she also led a large team of tech PMs and interviewed more than a hundred candidates. She's also very well known as her, you know, work as, you know, as a YouTuber and Instagram, you know, key opinion leader on the product management, correct development and also for leadership for women. And also, you know, things like negotiation workshop and other workshops. She's also developing along the way. She's also a proud alum of MIT Sloan and she had her doctor from BU in material science and engineering. All right. So let's jump right in. So Nancy, so why don't you take over the screen and we'll take you from there. Okay, great. Thanks for sharing Daniel and welcome everybody is Saturday morning. And I really appreciate some of you guys on the West coast. Now it's almost nine AM. And I need this. And now or 45 minutes sessions totally worse. The time because we're going to cover very important topics for everyone. As we are speaking, please comment on the chat. If you can see my screen or not. And during the entire session, if anybody have been to my live webinars before, you should, you should know that in general, I do lots of Q&A during the session. So I want people to engage through the chat. So if you can see my screen right now, comment on the chat and say, yes, you can see my screen. Come to chat and say yes. Okay, let me see the chat. We see many. Yes. That's perfect. Okay, so let me, let's get started. Let me put all of you guys on top of my screen so we can see each other and the chat as well. Okay. So today's topic is about negotiation. I've been teaching negotiation for a year from now on. And since last year, I, I believe I gave a brief talk about negotiation to suggest PM members specifically folks on salary negotiation today would help on negotiation in general, especially during the pandemic. So if you, if you guys maybe you're in the process of getting a job. So let's get started to understand how can we improve our negotiation skills specifically in this 45 minutes. I'm going to show you how to advance your career and get what you want through negotiations and selling yourself strategies without leaving a bad impression. And then you're already introduced myself. I just want to emphasize a little more about negotiation in general. So let's get started. I moved to the US with $800 in my pocket to study my PhDs in material science. Like most of you guys, I think love lots of us already came into the US and trying to advance our career, but how can we get far along regarding a title and the career promotions? And in addition, how can we get more money out of this? So through my career, I each time I jumped ship, I received like 30%, 40% rates, but I also have had lots of failure at my career. That was because I didn't ask for more money. That's why today I'm sharing lots of lessons learned with all of you guys. And a reminder is that I have a YouTube channel talk about put a management and also negotiation. You guys can search, just Google Dr. Nancy Lee and you're able to find lots of content about me and feel free to subscribe and learn more. And something I just really want to let you guys know because I really wish sometime in the future you can help me out with this mission. Why I'm teaching all of you guys today and why I give like many free seminars and speaking at conferences once per month was because my long-term goal is build 100 schools in China to teach kids from middle and low income families, entrepreneurship. I wish sometime in the future you guys can help me to achieve this long-term mission. So in the near term, why I focused on negotiation today was that now I have the opportunity to manage a team of senior product managers. What I found out was that women and the international professionals are not on the decision table, decision-making table. That was because for example when you are getting hired and there's many managers need to vote. Do we need to hire this person? Do we need to sponsor H&B? Do we need to give this person a little bit more money because he deserves more. If you are the only one like me, I'm the only female manager out of 100 people product management organization. Besides me, there are only two Chinese managers in total out of 100. There are very few of us who is able to advocate for international professional and sometimes women as well. So therefore in general very few of us are getting paid as much as our counterparts, our peers. And that's why I decided to teach negotiation to all of you guys today how to negotiate and get more. So now let's get started regarding the general framework for negotiation is have a deep understanding of seven principles. First is your own interest is towards the both parties need to have the same interest towards the same deal. And the second is legitimacy and fear. See this very simple regarding each time you negotiate something. Think about you always need to make sure the deal is very feared instead of you're taking advantage of the other side of party. And same thing as relationship building. I'm going to give you examples specifically how to build relationship even before you start a negotiation. And during negotiation when you think about our best alternative to a negotiated agreement so that you can decide do you want to walk away or not. And the next is commitment both parties need to make commitment to close the deal. And finally is your communication style specifically how would you communicate and share information with the other side of party to land the deal together. So the seven principles today I'm going to break this down to all of you guys and using specific case studies. And feel free to jump in common on the chat. And today so before we even dive into the details so now let me ask you the specific questions. About what specific things. Do you guys want to negotiate when we mentioned this word. Negotiation. Comment on the chat. What do you want to negotiate and why are you here today I assume you're you try to get something out of negotiation right so great said promotion great yes. Promotion is part of the negotiation track that's related but it's not the same yes negotiation can lead to promotion as well especially. In big big companies you need to know how to say and again more yeah may say salary exactly I think lots will think about salaries new opportunities right. I'm headcount totally yeah we'll talk about this myself as a hiring manager I'm getting more headcount from like my peers my managers how can you get more right and renting out your apartment. They know that's amazing awesome yeah I'm I'm running on my own as well actually yeah how can you get a fair price for the rent. Negotiation with vendors exactly I have specific examples about this with vendors and actually something very interesting that is that a friend of mine she's American she moved to Germany. Just complete a new country and when she started to work there she of course negotiated her job offer when she accepted the job offer and then the first day she joined the company her boss said I'm glad to negotiate it or I'll be very sad because you're going to negotiate with the vendors on behalf of the companies so negotiations happens every day that like Danny said visa oh yeah we should save the visa H1B issue towards the end or you guys can jump in anytime the specific things about H1B lots of people made mistakes yes visa green card needs to be negotiated in many different ways we're gonna hopefully we can cover as much as all the topics possible scope of work with client yeah if you're a consultant you need to discuss a scope of work and as a product manager myself we we talk about scope of work with it's more like product definition how would you prioritize different tasks and it's all negotiation as well exactly so I'm glad everybody captured the nuance of negotiation there's many things actually negotiation happens every day to me like me I my fiancee and I who cleans the bathroom it's also a negotiation seriously okay so now we know what can be negotiated has come to the the main part that as a fundamental I want all of you guys to understand before you start any negotiation the two types of negotiation one is this should how to pronounce it distributive distributive negotiation the other one is integrative negotiation the way it works is that the one the first one is more towards win-lose it's very straightforward the second one is win-win the two different style one style is that I want to get the maximum all of this negotiation when you buy a house right when you like rent your apartment to different things or when you negotiate the scope of work you want to get the maximum and the other side of table start to lose this is wrong in terms of outcome because in the long run as as something when we talk about the the relationship in the middle in the long run we need to think about how we create the win-win situation to build a long-term relationship so that the other side of a table that the parties can work with you again or negotiate new deals it's all about how can you work together the same thing as it's a joint game instead of individual games each time we negotiate think about how can the other side of a table also get something out of this negotiation negotiation is a value exchange to me same thing multiple parties is involved and also you need to negotiate multiple like issues together the one in the middle of multiple issues what I mean is that when you for example you when you negotiate a job offer you don't just negotiate a base salary you negotiate sign on bonus maybe vacation time maybe maternity leave if some of you guys won't have kids in the future it's a package of everything can be negotiated not just one thing at the time of course you need to be flexible and the outcome of negotiation the solution should be very creative that's in general though the mindset I want to set you guys when you walk into a negotiation table now something I really want you to start to think about change the definition of negotiation when we talk about negotiation do you feel like is like confrontational very aggressive if you're a woman people might call you baby word you know so if you fail this way do you have an active opinion about negotiation before this talk and say yes in the chat if the negative say yes oh reverse okay if an active say and if negative opinion about negotiation in general so and and in the chat or if you think well negotiation general is a very positive term you say P in the chat so comment on the chat and let me know what your original opinion about negotiation so we see some positive oh my goodness we see more positive than negative that's awesome which means I'm going to switch the mindset part I'm glad you guys already have positive opinion about negotiation yes the first time I heard the negotiation is is negative for me honestly because it's very aggressive I don't want people coming bitch or whatever you know but once I start to ship a mindset negotiation is influence in real life which means is that people do not pay for the value you deserve people pay for the value you sell to them negotiation is a value exchange if let's say you feel like you need to be a director like people mention promotion right so recently I got like a four offers and also became a director the name of company will be announced sometime in a week or so but in general when we talk about title different things you think you deserve a director title other people think maybe not was because they didn't see the value you sell to them it's not because you don't deserve it okay people never pay for what you deserve to pay for the value you sell to them so understand this as we go through the examples what do you think is negotiable now we talk about this earlier right so let me give you the answer regarding what's negotiable we mentioned promotions and different things and I also this more things more than what you talk about such as green card equity exit package especially if you move up to like direct director all above level different VP level you need to talk about the exit package some company let's do that sometime some companies do not but you need to think about exit package means if you leave the company or somehow company let you go whatever they will give you half-year salary because you know lots of top secrets of the company so this is called part of the exit package people should think about it and like legal contract like cooking the dishes as I said I do this more often than anyone else and also discount on clothes and I'm something about this can close the very funny and I negotiate 20% off at Macy's for the original price nothing was on sale original price nothing was on sale I got additional 20% off this is all based on negotiation I don't want to like get money it's not lots of money but the sense behind this is that people need to practice negotiation you cannot only ask for promotion want to get a director title you ask it once per year or once per like three years something like that but you're out of practice that's why I encourage everyone to apply the principles and the practice on the daily basis or at least weekly basis okay so second part is I really want to share with sky this I was a engineer before data is something I really enjoy the second part is you are as good as others what I mean is that so do this experiment with me very quickly there was a specific study conducted in Stanford university they put to group of people slashing half randomly selected both men and women slashing half for the first group they told that for all of you guys you're going to negotiate on behalf of TJ Maxx and women in the past are better at negotiating deals on behalf of TJ Maxx because women love fashion right and for the second group was randomly selected group of people they said you're going to negotiate on behalf of TJ Maxx but in general in the past men are tough negotiators they usually get a better deal because they're like more dominant in the negotiation table so my question to all of you guys is that who did better in those two separate groups men or women or the same or group one or group two to let me know the two scenarios first group they told women is better second group they said men is better who did better in those experiment now then I show data to you then you'll say same for both groups grace a man lots of men men men Christina said women so here's a hint the two groups first group they told them something that women's better second group they said men are better two groups do you see both groups women better or the men are better or group one is some same so group one groups are the same okay we see lots of men and men women women lots of guesses actually let me share you the scientific results based on the chart for the group one women did better for group two men did better why so let me show you what's behind the scenes there's no difference between group one group true because randomly selected for the first group because they put in the head saying that women are better women did better for the second group they put in people's head saying that you are man you can do better and men did better there's no difference between men and the women in those two groups the only difference is that if I put pre-existing beliefs or conditions or influences in your head then you will do better from what I'm telling you this based on the data I want to share with you is that you are as good at others even if you might be minority even if you might speaking with an accent like me or even it might be a woman in general women getting paid 80 cents on a dollar compared with men right even if people said your words whatever if you do not believe that you're good or worse or whatever it doesn't matter women or minorities or immigrant can do as good as other people so understand this before we move on okay this your mindset really defines who you are how well you do in negotiation now let's get into the specific framework and case studies that how you apply those like specific principles from universities in real life alright so let's do this and when we negotiate it's about the framework there are four steps framework let's say you need to understand the right timing and also build relationship reputation before you ask research or market value tell others about your value right we talk about value driven negotiations the whole time all I teach people is about value you can bring to the company so let's break down the framework I will also give you a specific case study and step one is that build credibility before you ask which means you need to socialize your achievement whenever it happens such as product launch engineering breakthrough problem you have solved specifically myself I am in the product side so I I emphasize on product launch and how many customers use my product and how much revenue my product has been driven by the customers and to the companies all costs have been saved because my product those are all your achievement and people one of you guys mentioned promotion part of something you can negotiate not just promotion salary everything together right so when those achievement happen you need to start to build your credibility and talk about your achievement especially in the American environment don't wait until December hey I had achievement in the summer do you remember no no no when something happened in the summer talk about it let people know build your credibility way before you ask second is build your personal brand before you ask what I mean is that everyone has a brand you should ask yourself what your brand right so the way it works is that ask yourself and ask you others work with you how other people describe you if someone describe you as this person very very confident she's a problem solver she's a leader she's on track to become a director of EP in the future whatever you whatever you want to achieve I don't care you define what your final goal is right so you need to build your personal brand even before you start negotiation if you are known for someone who's a pushover someone also get lots of things done someone also work 60 80 hours per week and never push back do you think you will win in negotiation no you don't even come on the chat on this of course it's no right unless it's different if you think it's different say on the chat right so personal brand is important before you even start asking now we need also need to do lots of preparation before you start ask negotiation happen months before you start asking now set your aspiration price and bottom line in the principles we have something towards alternative solutions and like what's your best options different like like offers on the table things like this let's use salary negotiation as an example the same thing applies to anything you want to negotiate negotiate with vendors do your research regarding your aspiration price and bottom line for example if you negotiate salary you can Google regarding search I'm getting offered from Facebook how much Facebook getting paid with this this many of years experience right the specific website that I recommend everyone to check out called blind Google this blind they also have app basically a nominal anonymous site I think they are soup up version compared with glass doors so this is better I think the number there is also very very recent and it's not all data anyway so search what the market value is so understand aspiration price means well this is how much Facebook p.m. getting paid on the market today and I want actually a little bit higher than that this is my aspiration price bottom line is well let's say I know I know I know lots of like people said we just give you some examples Facebook a product manager with like let's say 10 years or like five years experience again in page 300 grand you if your aspiration price is I think I have 12 years experience I should get a little bit more so my aspiration price is 330 grand per year total package well your bottom line is well if they gave me anything about 250 I will consider accepting offer of course higher is a better right but my bottom line 250 anything below the 250 I think I would just work for Amazon or a better company and cooler company I think like that you need to understand your aspiration price the bottom line through market research through your own soul searching and understand what you have what you want now let me show you some specific examples and where the money coming from right so how much a product manager get paid people ask me these questions all the time this you can use this as a reference check for your specific professions and search those online blind other places because I specialize in product management so I know all the numbers behind it I put a manager getting paid a 120 to 1 up to 300 in total this done this do not include startups start up get paid low but give you way more equity so but you might be the next Google or next Facebook company you don't know so this start up is wild card and then you break down the salary for product managers on in general you get you you get paid a monthly 10 grand to 25 grand and sign on bonus could vary between 5k to 10 to 100 grand just for the Sino I help in three days ago help another student of mine negotiating her salary with Amazon so Amazon paid her Sino bonus 100 grand so this is examples in reality so once you know all the data you can set a realistic your aspiration number your bottom line what can be negotiated don't go above what people can offer but you know in general what they can offer that's a very good data for you before you start negotiation okay now let me ask you this question so something was okay you come up with specific numbers this is your salary negotiation as an example right you come up with the best numbers now before you even walk into the negotiation you should also make sure what's your best alternative solutions what I mean is that you drop as the example means if I do not take Amazon's offer what what what else on the table right you can stay in your current company this also are the best alternative solutions and someone mentioned regarding like vendors or promotions right let's say promotion if you cannot get director position my other best alternative solution is get a job something out somewhere else with the same title or something right or you negotiate with vendors it's a well vendor one it's too expensive but really good but my other best alternative solution is this right so let me ask you this this questions when you start negotiating have you thought about your best alternative solutions let's use your job as an example if you put in the chat if you went into like interview process then someone like facebook make an offer but they give you a low bar offer what's your best alternative solutions compared with a facebook offer comment on the chat use that as an example your product manager or a data scientist you go to facebook and they make your offer but you kind of didn't like it somehow maybe maybe you don't like the reputation of company and what's your best alternative offer or solutions what's your best alternative solutions in this specific scenario what else you can come up with comment on the chat what's your best alternative solutions yeah keep searching for new jobs exactly do you have any more answers counter offer yes you can bring counter offer in the negotiation process exactly that's your other best alternative solutions exactly that are you hit right so all of this could be other alternative solutions think about your other alternative solutions this will be very strong counterpart when you go into this negotiation sometimes I want to stay in my current company it's not bad to stay in my current company comfortable stable whatever this is also something great when you can think about it ask for promotion your current company exactly tater the scope of your work you can do more do less and it's also your alternative solutions even if you don't work for facebook you don't accept the job offer there are other things be specific what I can offer and add value grace grace you keep something you learn so quickly because my entire negotiation strategy is about value you can add to employers awesome alright so let's keep going you also need to understand what's on the other side of table right you understand what's your best alternative solutions how much getting paid how much other company getting paid in package you can negotiate so what's on the other side of table is that what about the company right so especially if you negotiate with a startup you need to understand the funding situation a startup you also need to understand what big company what's the budget there's a range the budget can never go above like 250 in total whatever things like that or is there any other competition on table you might they might selecting you and compare you with other vendors compare you with other candidates anything could happen right so understand what's on the other side of table is going to help you frame the entire process you can just be in your own zone I want this much money well this 10 other candidate want way less especially during COVID probably the more candidate than ever you want 300 grand Facebook there are lots of candidates who doesn't have a job they're willing to sell themselves cheap for 250 let me take someone else who's willing to sell them cheap during COVID right so this is something you guys need to consider especially when you negotiate during COVID for promotions other things as well now salary negotiation tips and you guys should do a screenshot I just want to cover this very quickly is that is illegal for HR to ask your current salary in Massachusetts I don't know other cities or other states so if your current salary is lower the same thing in California exactly so this is very good protection if your current salary is lower than your future jobs don't tell them it is illegal for you to ask me how much I'm getting paid right now okay not legal to ask current company yeah exactly yeah sometimes HR still ask you you tell them what I said on the screen it is illegal for you to ask me how much I'm getting paid right now I'm just trying to protect you you're doing something getting small right don't tell them your current salary unless your current salary is much higher than they're willing to pay then you have more but usually I assume when you jump ship your current salary is lower than what they offering you so don't tell them your lower salary same thing ask your ex-co-workers for salary information go or rented as many different things yeah those are the tips you guys should consider when you ask for more so today it's more towards the like negotiation now let me give you a specific example regarding value driven negotiation right so a friend of mine actually she was my student last year I help her to get a 40% raise just use hers as an example and the value we use value driven approach let me define her value that first of all so this she's a senior scientist she used work for startup in San Francisco now she's jumping to last year she at that time she jumped to another startup but crazy part is that she got a low ball offer low ball offer means to protect her information let's say you get 100k base in California is much higher than that let's just use 100 as an example right so you guys can come on the chat as well and use some random number as an example when you ask questions as well so that we can be very specific I want all of you guys to take the content and something you can take actions right away okay so let's use real number or some numbers as an example for her let's say her base salary today her base salary for current company is 100 grand but the new company offer her exactly the same base salary that's that's awful I call that low ball offer whenever you jump ship you get the same money no even if the other company is cooler you need to get paid more right so my student feel like very on the values I would feel offended I feel offended if this happened to me never happened to me but happened to her low ball offer you come to my company make exactly the same as what you had before and then what we did is that we did market research let's say in San Francisco the material scientist salary is total package 120 to 150 and definitely the low ball offer so we understand how much the market should be and combine her years of experience then the next thing the next thing we did is that understand the fundraising situation of the startup basically she's jumping from startup a to start B but the startup B just raised 300 grand I'm sorry $300 million sorry it's not grand $300 million was great work like balance they also take every other Friday off my point is based on all the funding situation and actually you can find review on Glassdoor as well so this company in general pay people very well and they do have lots of funding being able to like pay her so it's clearly there is lots of room growth now her value right and this value to the startup is she already had experience in 90% of the equipment she's she needs to use as a material scientist in the new company she also had experience leading a team and she also had many PhD publications that's all her value she can bring to the startup what she did next is that she talked to HR and asked specific questions and specifically where she started conversation was because this is the value I can bring to the company that with me you're able to accelerate the material testing process 50% faster whatever because my experience working with 90% of equipment so that's her value she can bring to the company that how much this is going to help company to improve and grow their bottom line their revenue their operation efficiency and in addition she also told HR saying that I really like your company this is my top choice so how can we work together how do you what do you think the hiring manager want so the key part behind is again remember the principal building relationship she's building relationship with HR because HR also want you to accept the offer but HR just like give you a low ball offer that's very I wouldn't feel happy to see that either but how are you so she is trying to build relationship with HR bring HR on her side and ask HR to give her more information to understand what exactly the hiring manager want and what's what's the range of the company we can work on this is my top choice but this is definitely too low than what I expected but I like your company right so the entire relationship building process let her know much more information we hear some noise Daniel do you want to mute yeah you have any questions you can let Daniel know so we can unmute you when you talk yeah so let's continue and specifically after she understood the entire her value to the company to build relationship with HR and she got a 40% raise based on offer and in addition I also think the company's way cooler she used to work for a bike company as a material scientist now she's making flying cars as a material scientist so I also think it's also title bump all bump in many different ways right so this is a final outcome regarding how she used value driven approach to build relationship with HR and have them have her HR to help her now let me give you other value driven examples this is also a real case I just covered this the picture to protect the identity of another student of mine she's a real estate agent let's call her Megan and okay if you're in California like Daniel do not laugh at the numbers okay do not laugh at how much things are getting sold in Boston in suburb I know we're missing a zero okay in California it's probably $6 million in Boston suburb is probably $600 okay we're talking about suburb Boston $600 single family so what happened was for Megan she helped her client to sell a single family in the suburb of Boston original price was $600 she sold about $700 in the cash offer $700 cash offer immediate closing that's amazing but she's only getting 1% of commission that was because originally she was running to the buyers she's a sellers agent she also needs to give half of commission to the buyers agent she also needs to like do a demo the house do other stuff so she's only getting 1% 1% is $6,000 she's only getting $6,000 doing such amazing job for the for the client and then her client is $100,000 more it was $600 now she sold it for $700 her value to client is $100,000 more and her asking was hey, given I'm bringing so much value I deserve additional 1% in the past I get $6,000 or $7,000 1% given my value to you significant higher I think you need to reword me with one more percentage which is another $7,000 which means the total value she bring to the client is like $93,000 for the client so she focus on the value she can bring to the client which also makes so much sense and they still want to build long term relationship to continue work with each other so that's how she bring her value talk about her value during the negotiation process now let me ask you one last question before we re-end this talk and go to the Q&A part is when do you think you should ask for a raise comment on the chat when do you think you should ask for a raise come on the chat in New York is this a delayed message yes in New York it's illegal to ask your current comp yes great comment and Megan said just finish a big project with great outcome when do you think ask for a raise that's one of the answers that's good one what else do you guys think when do you think you should ask for a raise quarterly catch up yeah that's one of the answers very cool you guys don't ask for a raise we need to get more get out the offers yes when do you have achievement and get recognized by the team great that's awesome all great answers but something I need to bring all of you guys attention to is the timing are feeling have sufficient experience yes let me show you the specific timing I talk about the negotiation calendar I built for all of you guys is that for lots of companies the decisions were made about you or your next year's bump is like November then in December you have performance review session which means you need to ask your salary like bump way ahead the decision was made don't wait until December you do it in like September or sometime earlier and I wouldn't ask for a raise whenever you have a huge like accomplishment during the major project I would use that to build your reputation first and then three months later and you ask for a raise when you can build reputation have your allies have all the thoughts on down the line and you then you ask the time specifically at the right decision making time of your company but don't wait until December so I built actually I made a specific video about specific how to find out the negotiation timeline of your company I also have made a negotiation like a calendar and that's specifically how I ask my first 15% raise in my first company and you can take a screenshot of this page and you can scan this barcode which will land you to download the sheet and also have the link to the specific videos you guys can watch I will also put my youtube video link here so there's lots of videos you can watch about negotiation for today this is something I want to share with all of you guys now we can actually go to because the sake of time we can spend more time in Q&A for that part based on what you emphasize on and the final thoughts I want to bring to all of you guys is that investing in yourself is the only thing with guaranteed returns you got to believe this that this is also very data driven something is crazy and also I learned this through my teaching experience is that the difference between successful people and the mediocre people or okay whatever people we can talk about is that successful people are more willing to invest in themselves the specific examples I want to give you guys is that when I started teaching negotiation last year I want to teach women because women need them more they are getting paid like 80 cents on a dime on a dollar and then there's a lot of men reach out to me this is crazy why on earth men you reach out to me about negotiation and you're already doing better than women and you want to reach out to me and some men even reach out to me asking me this not just for more money more salary they ask me this Nancy how can I negotiate with my fiance about when to get married Nancy this as negotiations happens everywhere even if they already doing better they want to improve themselves and same thing as another student mine was so crazy they are the what a VP of product and trying to learn from me regarding the product management book and teaching I was like you're the VP of product what a heck why on earth you're here today and they were like Nancy you are better at product management sell yourself negotiation I want to learn the specific skills from you so that I can even make more money and get promotion even faster wow that's how rich rich people become richer and successful people become more successful was because they're more willing to invest themselves this also learning like surprise learning outcome I discovered therefore I suggest all of you guys is that the only way the only thing have guaranteed returns is investing yourself and everything else a stock market everything can go up and down like crazy it's not very predictable but the only thing can predict is investing yourself this is my final words for all of you guys if you want to get in touch with me you can take a screenshot right now with all my contact information you can find me on WeChat and I also have a specific WeChat group that you can scan this barcode and join the group which also have my like website also have a WeChat account where I post product management like interview tips and create advice there and basically it's all my content you can you can contact me later on just at the final word I teach product management interview bootcamp I also negotiate offer on behalf of other people if you're interested feel free to email me or message me on WeChat and thank you very much for your time so now let's move to Q&A session feel free to I don't know tell Daniel or put your questions here Daniel is going to manage the Q&A session I'm going to turn this back to him all right appreciate it so I think this is a great talk I think that's a great example putting together the series the framework the seven steps seven elements of negotiation and with your real life examples and I think that the value based negotiation try to really make sure the other party enters in the value and also your emphasis emphasis on the relationship building I think really kind of resonate with my past experience as well so before getting to any of the additional question I have here on the panel discussion someone I think his name TA asks this question about because I think this is related to back to what you mentioned earlier when promotion decision was made you know is it before you're filled out your own performance review so my from my perspective the answer is yes so the performance review was something we asked the team to fill out by December sometime in November but decision was made back in end of October begin November when we plan the budget so so does that make it entirely useless I think that wouldn't make it entirely useless it wouldn't render the whole effort useless but it still you know kind of tell you the timing is important back to Nancy's point so I think Nancy I don't want to hijack the discussion so I want to address that question specifically the fact that decision was made before you fill out the performance review do you still need to spend time on the performance review it is still an effort that's worth you know focusing on so back to you yeah you should always highlight your achievement in all the performance review 200% so it's not a waste of effort because where's what which decade I mentioned one of the decade I mentioned is always about how can you like socialize and build your brand make people understand you even you already missed the time again hey guys like seriously so watch this video and and take a screenshot of this it will will take you to download the negotiation calendar where you can learn more but what I mean is that you should have asked in different timing long time ago but you didn't now as your turn to socialize even if decision was made you should still socialize take all the opportunities to socialize your achievement even if it's too late it's very likely the decision was made doesn't make doesn't make you to get even one more dollar but it's still good good exercise to do because you also need to practice socializing but you do need to understand like what Daniel said and I think Daniel said we also manage people as a manager or like giving people races right all the decision was made before your performance review so that's why I made a specific video you guys gotta watch this and understand how people make decision in big companies yeah correct thank you I think that's a very helpful I think you know the calendar is something you want to keep in mind of when you write your performance review is not for this year's it's something that kind of reminds your boss reminds your manager you know what you did what is the impact so you're setting up the basis for the next year's budget so basically that's a just be just keep in mind that you know whatever you write you know it's gonna generate immediate value you know it's going to be a long-term investment assuming you're gonna stay in the company for a while right so that's that's a key point and then also the timing personally from my perspective I would like to bring it up at the quality catch up so you usually if you have maybe everyone should have their you know non project based career development session with your boss and sometimes skip level too right so every once in a while we should talk to them about your career aspiration what works for you what doesn't work for you you know and what's your long-term say four or five years career goal and also what is your short-term career goal so those are things that kind of transcend you know on top of what we have you know on those weekly one-on-one discussion about your project right so you should have a session with your boss not about project but only about your career aspiration tell them explicitly where you want to be and ask ask for help how you can get there right so so I think those discussion you need to have ahead of time and like Nancy mentioned don't just wait till once a year and a performance review because that will be a little too late maybe that will impact next year's you know performance review but it's going to be a little too late you're going to have to wait for another 12 months or so all right so I want to get back so I collected a bunch of questions you're from your from everyone's Eventbrite sign up so there's a question about hey what do you want to learn from negotiations session so I'm going to run through some examples here or some of the questions you have consolidate all of them into four buckets and I'm going to return back to the screen afterwards to talk about some of the questions you guys have specifically but first thing is you know in terms of the negotiation type I know we have the distributive and we also had integrative right distributive where it's a zero sum game you're talking about a single number and the integrative is you know you're having a lot of multiple conditions you're negotiating on and you typically can achieve one wing as long as you know what is valuable to you and what is valuable to your party to your counterparty so does win-win truly exist or salary negotiation you know usually talking about a single number but can you achieve a win-win that preserves the relationship and also you know get what you wanted but you know finding out a creative solution right because we typically a distributive negotiation there's no nothing creative about that right you're talking about single number and you're pushing back and you know back and forth the bar where it where it ended at but with the salary negotiation can you have a win-win situation where you can come up with creative solutions yeah actually I just a specific example I want to give you guys it happens a lot for example three days ago I helped somebody to negotiate AWS offer with Amazon same thing to me let's run the number we don't want to talk my clients number let's say 200 but it's higher than that just use that as an example her she's getting paid higher than that right there's specific number let's say the the recruiter gave her 200 grand original gave her let's say 180 total package not give her 200 whatever now what we thought is that well this might be a zero sum game regarding salary negotiation however the way not to make it zero sum game is you package it as a whole thing maybe if you're in your salary package there are relocation package sign on bonus for Amazon they also have equity within equity they also have the the vesting period which means the first year they give you 10% second year give you 25% whatever the vesting period there's all random numbers I can give you the real number just as an example right they also have the cash the cash sign on bonus and stock options sign on bonus and not just sign on bonus annually they give you the much money all this is a package it is not the win-lose and the way you do that is if the the maximum base salary for Amazon is this much which we know we know all the numbers I know all the numbers that is that let's say the base salary for Amazon maximum we can push is 160 so why push 160 because gonna hurt the relationship between you and HR what we push is is how can we push the the relocation package more like give me more money to move there right it's a far move to me especially you want to move you in COVID or after COVID it's a high risk for you to move right so this is a win-win situation that way from recruiter's perspective they have different budget so myself I'm HR manager I understand how budget was allocated they have budget for like base salary budget for relocation or budget for like a stock options different things is that as long as your budget do not go beyond what they can control it's all like negotiable and it's a win-win was because recruiter really want her to join the company what she can work on as well the base salary cannot be improved the stock option is a maximum how can give her more money to relocate or to move here eventually she still got the maximum number we can get together we're very proud like tell the numbers she got in total so it is a win-win situation even towards salary negotiation because the whole package is very valuable like you can talk about yeah very helpful thank you Nancy I think from my personal examples I think even the number is set 100% set like you just know wiggle rooms to make number larger there's also creative solutions too so for my case specifically you know I asked for part of my future bonus or part of my sign up bonus to be paid for with tuition so basically you know imagine this like you know you're paying I'm say you know a year of tuition at $70,000 or so and then you ask them to hey don't pay me cash on my bonus or don't pay me cash on my sign up bonus hold it off and then just pay the school directly right so there's also from that perspective you're also saving a lot of income taxes so there's a lot of win-win situation a lot of creative solutions you can think of for company it's all the same money it doesn't hurt it doesn't cost of anything it might be some accounting overhead where people had to work it through you know put that into different geo line item but in reality you know it doesn't cost company much to get you what you want and also for them they're not losing much either so there's always going to be creative solutions out there same thing with the sign up bonus sometimes if you need to move across the coast you can ask them hey give me less sign up bonus but cover more on the relocation package because again that's you pay directly to the moving company right so again you don't have to go through this income tax basically taking advantage of Uncle Sam and and not worry about like those money being charged like whatever at 40% you know pre-hold tax rate so there's always things you can think about in in terms of a creative solutions all right so I want to move on to the next section which is like you know more of a nurturing of the relationship and also being aware of the culture difference so first of all Nancy are you aware or what is the main difference between you know negotiating negotiating in united states and negotiating in China I think this question came from one of the audience you know from the event bright when they sign up so are you familiar with like you know what is the culture difference between different negotiation styles when you're talking with you know a counterpart from China versus from US I do not negotiate with the specific companies actually negotiate with Alibaba before actually when they want me to move back and give me some money to move there right I personally think is that for American it's more creative I think they can help you to work on different things for Chinese company this rule book you need to check there's a specific number you need hit for American for example this happened before that if some company some person we really want to hire you can escalate to ask for more money through different ways because they really want you to get there for Chinese company I think they treat you more towards commodity that sounds really bad but it is that you're more replaceable this is the number you don't want it we move on to the next person and that's how I see this the differences the creativity part is different and I also if you negotiate in person with Chinese is much worse when you negotiate with with with think not not for money negotiate for deals with other people I think the differences is that sometime we negotiate with Chinese Chinese companies they might take it more personally compared with American I think American they negotiate more than us they negotiate all the time so let's try this doesn't work fine for Chinese it may feel like more emotional attached to it my her some like personal feelings or her their confidence for American I don't think what sometimes they didn't get what they want to negotiations won't hurt their confidence well they move on to negotiate next deal I think that's the difference what do you think Daniel honestly I don't have experience negotiating Chinese I can't really say but from salary negotiation you know house negotiation you know all the things happening here I think you just really want to take I think you're right kind of you want to take the three motion out of this exchange so sometimes I don't know if that happened in China a lot but in here sometimes if you're not a professional negotiator and your counterpart negotiator it's not a professional negotiator I think it's very common to you know bringing the agency bring some kind of agent as intermediary so I think that's what happened with you know with my current job where I got this job offer from a executive recruiter and then you're talking to them about the salary and my expectation for the comp and for them to relay that information to the hiring manager you know it preserved the relationship between me and the hiring manager because I'm still working here right so basically you want to make sure that there's you know through that negotiation on the numbers and such if you can find someone to talk on your behalf or into you know be acting as intermediary that's actually always better to preserve the relationship that's my personal experience obviously not everyone have that opportunity with salary negotiation but when you know we get this example with house managers right you always have agent that's talking on your behalf with the buyer agent with seller agent so you don't face with the you don't talk to the people directly who sell the house because people get emotionally attached and you might really easily offend the counterparts actually yesterday I closed the house I have lots of stories oh congrats negotiation for profits congratulations obviously like people are asking like how do you find agent to negotiate offers usually if you work with a recruiter the recruiter will work with you to negotiate so do not talk to your hiring manager directly about the money that's my personal experience but if you can find a recruiter either from the company's perspective that's like less neutral right because they're talking about making the best the most out of their end but if you can also work with a third-party independent contractor or independent recruiter to start off with the person that presented your resume to the hiring manager to the HR that person is usually work with them to tell them what you need and that person has an incentive to close the deal because their compensation is based on your commission based on if you get hired as a VP director whatever they usually get paid quite a bit up to 100k or even higher per transaction so work with those people the goal is aligned they want to make sure you accept the offer obviously for you, you want to get the highest offer so there is a slight deviation from a gold perspective but in general we work with a recruiter that presents resumes to the company especially for positions a little higher up that's a typical way to preserve the relationship with your manager directly after you start working alright I think I have a couple more questions about the relationship side so how do you negotiate and again this came from a question from the Eventbrite how do you negotiate with people that have more power than you so the power is in balance I guess if you're talking about your manager, talking about your boss or people that just have more influence have higher bad luck basically in that particular case how do you negotiate with those people that you don't have as much influence and don't have as much power how do you get yourself prepared for that situation actually this happens a lot and myself I negotiate salaries even before you as an example because your boss has more power than you the many different ways to do it is that for example my first job I asked for a raise I got 15% raise in my first job without jumping ship jumping ship is easier because you might have competing offers let's say in a situation you stay in your current company and that year I got the 15% raise and also the second highest bonus in my company when you negotiate with someone with higher power it's a step one you understand that what on earth this higher power person has on his table you might ask for more money but he might compare your salary with your peers there's some equations he's calculating why he or she doesn't deserve this money or why we cannot give her a promotion something like that right so understand what's in his head then you can crack the equation step two is that find allies when you try to negotiate with someone who is higher up like find allies who can sponsor you in the current company that can either phishing out information from his head or talk to him directly on behalf of you so this happens a lot actually I asked my first company to sponsor me to go to MIT and have them to pay for my tuition I asked for four times and my specific MIT classes was in the middle of the day I went to class 11 to 1 or 10 to 12 something like that I was happy my work for sure managers would say no they do have higher power and also the youngest one in the company they don't really care about me personally honestly it can be replaced that's my point but if you're able to find other allies that can talk on behalf of you and talk to the managers or understand what the manager has it's important and third understand the budget or he needs to ask for his VP or like EVP whatever to get additional budget you understand how hard this is then you understand why why I cannot ask for more or whether this room for me to ask for more and is it a reality or have I hit the ceiling sometimes you already hit the ceiling you hit the band if you already know that you hit the band you feel happy that you're the highest anyway that also means that you cannot ask for more the option is that the way to gain power in this situation is can you get other competing offers or to improve your current situation compared with someone with higher alright thank you Nancy and I have one more question on the nurturing relationship side is it appropriate to review your BATNA your best alternative solution to the negotiation agreement so is it okay to review what's your backup plan to your counterparts because that's a tricky question I think that you have your own BATNA you have your own reservation price and also what you can do if this agreement does not go through but is it okay to review that to the counterparty? the answer is always okay to review but you need to use wisely so for example if you are let's use the example as another student of mine if you have other counter offers from Google that's my best alternative solutions but you also have offer from Facebook of course and show them tell them during the negotiation tell them I have other offers they have this much can you beat this right so I think it's okay but you should also get ready if you review your BATNA and they say no and you have to get ready to walk away so they know too much information they know everything on your side now do not give it what you want are you ready to walk away so this is the last resort before I really show them all the cars in my hand but this is one of the ways to do it I think works is efficient I did it myself as well push offers really high you guys compete and someone just made me an even higher offer so all works out but use wisely alright I think this is very relevant I think from my perspective I think it's really dependent on is this the relationship that's worth nurturing for example if I'm selling my car to this person I'm never ever ever gonna see again I think it's okay to review your BATNA it's okay to say hey if you don't buy I'm gonna sell to dealer for whatever amount of money and if this person that I care about is a long term relationship I'm building with my boss I'm not gonna tell him hey if you don't give me this what I wanted this new company I already have offer with this is you don't just review your BATNA directly with the relationship you would like to preserve so you gotta find your sweet spot find your battle not everything is worth fighting for sometimes it's okay to preserve more relationship to give up a little less sometimes you really don't care about relationship you wanna go all in to win that battle so I think that's just from my personal experience exactly in that case if you tell your boss you gotta give me this much money if your boss didn't make it happen you should get ready to leave because they look down on you they look down on you if they give you what you want so use it wisely this is very dangerous tool can get you lots of money or what you want can also hurt you as well yep and I think I'm gonna move on to the next section regarding the the 4th section so it's gonna be more about visibility and influence the last last time about the leading team and also about something about influence I will have more influence later on but as you mentioned negotiation is also influenced too so this is kind of like overlap which is fine so some question coming that came from the attendants are how do I demo my value and how do I demo leadership in my daily work to increase my visibility in the organization so people take notice so the discussion about promotion doesn't come too late very good question this is more towards the promotion and influence side to get ahead in the organization I myself had experiment lots of different things and the conclusion for that is that first of all whenever you have any kind of achievement you gotta let people know and the second you also need to grasp the opportunity to give public speaking like speeches sorry, public speeches what it means is that if there's a product launch or something or any like you build a data model you need to get and fight for the opportunities to give a presentation so you are perceived as the leader in the space even if you collaborated with other people so get those opportunities and the second is that build your network in the company to understand where can you find those high profile opportunities in the company and for example for me I know where is the most high profile jobs or project that's important to the executives in my current company and you just need to build the network you have and identify those opportunities and work on things like that and now the other part is also you mentioned about influence and demonstrate your leadership skills and influence demonstrating leadership skills and they are coming hand to hand what I mean is that when you start influencing people is about how can you understand the true motivation of the other side of the table that person how are you able to say something to his heart what he cares about and leadership also has a lot to do with whether you are perceived as a leader and usually the person who gives more presentation is perceived as a leader and also the person who is leading the meetings are perceived as leaders that doesn't mean that you are not a leader or not it's about how can you put yourself in the strategic position in the company to show that you have the opportunities for the next generation leader in your company Daniel what do you think yeah I think that's a spot on when you are talking about leadership specifically you want to demonstrate that you can lead without getting a title you want to be a manager you don't need to get the manager title to lead you can actually start managing start influencing and getting work done as a leader and demonstrate that your capacity as a leader is influenced with those indirect I guess more of a dotted line control over the project so I think it's not just about can I get my manager title to do the manager work you really want to demonstrate that you have the capacity to do so even before you get promoted yeah I just want to add something to it for lots of product manager interview questions they will ask you so for product manager will influence and negotiate every day give me an example when you get alignment between multiple five stakeholders how do you do that this means influence you got to give them specific example how you change other people's opinion and get alignment this all influence that you need to get ready for all the interviews and that you actually need to execute in your real life as well so that it can be perceived as a leader yes and I have two more questions I want to bundle that into one under the visibility and influence section which is the third part of this question groups and so if you're the hiring manager sorry if you're like you know some kind of managers or maybe some senior member of the team how do you ask for more head counts when there's hiring freeze organization wide this is very relevant to COVID-19 where everything is frozen up in the budget for a lot of companies in retail if you do that ask for more because eventually the more people you have it's going to be a better case for you for next year's review for you to get promoted to director for VP whatever so you want to start preparing for that step and then also conversely how do you also negotiate the scope of work and broaden the impact so those are also questions came from the attendees I think that might so the question behind I want to ask you guys is who do you negotiate with right this difference between negotiating with your stakeholders or your customers and also when you negotiate with the internal teams so what I imagine is that you're trying to negotiate with the internal teams whenever we negotiate with the scope of like more people having more responsibilities you can think about like two side of the equations on one side is that is the environment in COVID environment it is harder in general and which also means a certain department it's easier certain department is harder for example my department where I am is that we're fast growing team everybody frees besides us we're asked to hire 60 people next year it's just like growing like we're only 25 this year ask 60 next year it's growing that was because in the even if in the environment of COVID if you put your micro environment that your entire environment is fast growing it's important project for the company it's way easier for you to ask for more the sunset industry there is sunrise industry the sunset group and sunrise group if in the sunrise group it's easier because it just the environment pushed you to grow okay so try to get into the sunrise group so as example like for example the oil gas company they are laying off people right now because nobody's driving yeah so I call that sunset I don't know if in the oil gas industry don't blame it example like the sunset industry why on earth you push really hard ask for more money or bigger scope in the sunset industry I will focus on how can I jump ship to a sunrise industry first of all and the second if you happen to be in the sunset industry let's say you're in the travel industry that's you're also in the real gas industry that's also going down right now if you really somehow you don't want to change your environment I'm sticking here even if sunset I'm sticking here what you do right if a sunset staying here is more towards first of all do you have exactly sponsorship have you built your reputation everything I told you you need to do it ahead of time have you when people talk about you how you perceived as a leader right if you have all the reputation ready you also have your exact sponsorship and then you also come up with a specific case saying that why I need more people why even if a sunset industry of oil gas or travel industry I still need to double my team come up with the legit answers that part is easy though it's all technical right but the other part is do you have sponsors that say yeah it makes sense we need to double it down right so you need to build allies in the company especially the higher you go the more politics are there and the more soft skills you need there is not that much technical skills behind the as I said based on the level you're in the higher level you like then you yourself is VP right lots more people relationship politics different things involved so that's how I see this environment and how would you be a relationship to execute your proposal yeah thank you Nancy I think from my perspective to answer this question it's actually very relevant to what's happening to me right now so obviously with COVID-19 we have a hiring freeze and but we have a dire need to get this person on board you know have this one opening position that we're hoping to open but was shot down by the CEO company why because you know we want to make sure we get through the survival mode first but now as you know companies recovering I'm planning to put together a case to say hey here's an impact that I can make with this new hiring new headcount and once I you know put together case together you know I'll highlight you know this is the dollar amount that we can get out of it and also here's a long term impact you know some other project we can put together with additional help and so that's you know really put together you know bring the value into this discussion and highlighting that you know with the what's the benefits even though there's a systematic organization-wide hiring freeze you can actually bring back you know one or two positions that are crucial to success of a really large project right so this is a again back to the value-based negotiation I want to move to the salary negotiation which is the last part of my of the panel so I think just very quickly we talked about COVID couple times already so what is the best or the most sensible way to bring up the need for a race during the COVID-19 you know where all the companies hiring like this budget freeze you know some place even have salary cut right so how would you bring up the need for a race during the COVID-19 what is the sensible way to do that without you know while preserving the relationship and also with the understanding of the difficulty the company is facing yeah so what I would do is so first understand how much other people is getting paid if you are underpaid compared with your coworkers regardless of COVID or not you ask for more money the biggest mistake I see 95% of all my students is that I want more okay what's on the other side of the table you're already the top of your band I know you want more you're already the top so for all of you guys they challenge all of you guys to understand are you in the middle of the band are you top of your band or are you lower than everybody else I bet 90% of you guys you don't know where you are and if you know now the second part is how can you bring this up if you're just you know you're lower than other people I think is how am I getting like motivated working here now you understand that was in their head regarding we want to go to survival mode and COVID is making big impact I also want to feel motivated to join to continue come to work and given to my research I know I'm underpaid or and you also bring up the value or achievement you have done in the past that's a better way to bring this to your employer as this moment to my personal opinion and of course you also need to make it very clear to them you understand the current situation and what you also try to convince them to share with you what's on the other side of the table maybe the manager will tell you well this year we only our margin decreased or everybody is reducing the amount of money for everyone that you understand that's the maximum you can do because everybody reduce the server 30% why on earth you don't have the right reason to ask I challenge all of you guys to figure out what's on the other side of the table before you even start asking yeah I think that's a very good point I'm not sure if everyone knows but usually managers have a stack rank procedure so basically hey this is A player, B player, C player and there's people that we don't care if they leave right so usually there's a stack rank already happening again that happens once a year around the budget planning process where you're forced as a manager you're forced to come up with a rank including the best employee and the worst employee if you can find out where you are on the stack rank that's the information that's not disclosed to you we don't want people to feel like you're a C player or B player but also knowing that not everyone is going to be A player and there's lots of value to make sure that retention rate for the B players is also solid because you need a lot of B players to support a company and you need a few A players to make sure that you're leading the team so not everyone can be A player so the company understands that if you happen to be a B player that's totally fine and the company are still doing what they can to preserve you to make sure that you stay I think the only challenge here is how do you find out that information how do you know where you rank how do you know when you stack rank there's no easy answer to that you don't know your peer salary you do not know it's also not appropriate to ask about that information for your managers but sometimes you just have to sense that you have to have a situation awareness from the group discussion from project discussion who does your boss listen to more and also from your their name recognition you can have a self-assessment are you having a big impact as people that sit next to you in the dollar amount so those are all things that you can do a little self-evaluation session on your own but just knowing that there is a stack ranked table that the manager put together once a year and everyone's being ranked together so I made a video I answered that question let me mute sorry this video was you guys it talks about how would you find out the rank or whatever I think towards the end of the video let me share this with you guys so you can take a look if it's not that video let me know I definitely made a video about this to answer those questions in a high level sorry I have multiple screens going on Daniel go ahead we can sort of run out of time but I want to get through one more question and I want to open up to all the questions that's on the screen on the chat right now so I guess one more question is can you accept sorry once you negotiate a salary offer or once you accept the offer do you have more room to negotiate more when is enough when is a good time to maybe stop negotiating or can you just continue to push well for the seven principles here if you accept the offer you accept everything if you continue to push you're risking this which is which is more relationship you already accept the offer you try yourself you try really hard to push then you somehow you don't have anything now you want to negotiate again you're hurting the relationship when you're hurting the relationship the outcome is either you walk away they may say let's say you are a student of mine she accept the Amazon offer for really high number let's say she I think we max out for sure her number is highest ever seen in Amazon let's say she working again next week saying I want another 20 grand more you are hurting the relationship you already tried to max out your number you said yes you have a lot of rounds of negotiation once you hurt the relationship the two things coming up either you ready to walk away if they say no or once you join a company how other people will perceive you for your relationship especially after you accept the offer before you accept the offer I think it's normal American do this as well you negotiate back and forth before you accept the offer go ahead and think about what do you think Daniel? I totally agree I think the negotiation once you commit it there's no drawing back otherwise it renders your word completely useless like you should have a trade deal with the current administration you gotta stick with what you have I think one possible suggestion I have though is you can't really negotiate after you have agreement but you can add something to it it's nice to have but if you don't agree with it we still have a deal sometimes that's okay if you already negotiated agreement selling the car or accepting a job offer sometimes it's okay to say at the end can you pay for make sure the number is not huge doesn't trigger any negative reaction but if you can add it to that that would be great and we already have a deal so I think it's okay to ask for some extra bonus but make sure that you let them know to accept or not accept does not impact this deal so I think that might be okay but again use it wisely your bad nut is hey if you don't agree to it let's continue with this existing agreement so that might again a case by case but you can think it through that's also a two set you have that potentially can increase the value you get out of the negotiation a little bit further also I think I have one more from the salary negotiation so if you are negotiating typically what happens is you don't have multiple competing offers so sometimes you do sometimes you don't so in the case where you don't have any good bad nut to fall back to you don't have a good bad nut to go back say hey I can go to the other company would you negotiate the salary with the person with hiring manager with HR when there is no other competing offers I answered this question already in Annie's example you talk about your value to the company and she doesn't have a competing offer either she has a current job and she has her whatever new offers that's it so when you negotiate in this situation you need to talk about your value you can bring to the company and how can you build a relationship with HR and honestly I'm pro in terms of understanding and making the other side of the table telling me what's going on and usually all the recruiters and everything they would tell me Nancy someone else is going to pay this much so this is already the highest so we're building a relationship getting a deal together relationship building and bringing value to the company I answered this already and follow the same framework and Annie's case is here starting from here sounds good so I'm going to close the panel and I want to open it to everyone so there's some questions already in the chat so let's maybe just pick some questions out let's see at any point in time or I guess right now specifically if you want to speak up just unmute yourself you can also ask questions too so as long as we're now in the middle of that discussion I do need to leave soon I have another I'm teaching soon but let's take one more questions anyone want to unmute yourself and also you can select questions from the chat too so feel free to do that Nancy for everyone to unmute themselves I reward people who want to stand up in addition you can contact me here you can join the group and you can message me in private as well to ask your specific questions since I don't know anyone want to unmute themselves I'm not sure if it's just a system that's preventing this from happening so I need to probably do something here making sure everyone's unmuted whoever wants to talk feel free to speak up never mind so I think the best way for me to ask questions I think a lot of people are still aware okay so everyone else is muted except you okay hi there hi there my name is Di I want to check out one question is that when we negotiation with management level how they make the decision whether this person was to be promoted or not how the decision process looks like okay good question about getting promoted the decision making process promoting something I think that's a great topic for me to make a video because people ask this a lot so let me tell you how things work behind the scenes is that at the end of every year or in the middle actually not at the end before decision was made let's say October September is in my video as well that managers will have a discussion with each other with each other the way we decide who to get promoted is that first of all understand internally what are the opportunities or for like a promotion opportunities in terms of do I have the head account to bring up another manager or do I have the head account to bring another like directors do I have this or not right if if not then nobody get promoted with more tours I can give you 3% increase whatever the typical ones and normal everyone goes this way so if there is opportunity in my team that I can bring on another senior managers in my team or another director in my team the way they make selections is that two parts and first of all in big companies they can you can choose to select someone internally you can also choose to bring somebody else from other teams well under the same umbrella could be the same company but other teams right so managers will try to do this at the same time I have seen managers we when we get promoted I was promoted internally straight up we also promoted another manager he came from the other team if when we talk about those opportunities then the evaluation is towards can the current managers or the current individual contributors in my team being able to perform this new function as a manager or director as they qualified right so if not I want to choose somebody outside and that can perform this function and in addition at the same time for the people who are candidate for being this new manager or director positions there are specific historical reputation you have built and achievement you had and also whether this person already had like sponsors or other part of the company so promotion it just yeah she did very well running mathematical equation so we should promote her besides you do well your historical performance we'll take a look as well we'll also see you as a person because when you get into leadership opportunities and positions it's more your people skills people will start to take a look who has the people skills who is better doing stakeholder management can he or she hold this position in the organization or not so all the things will start to score you and if none of you guys score high under the current manager he or she will bring someone else from adjacent teams or he had great impression of another person usually the way I see this is that actually managers 50% of them prefer to bring someone from outside because they want to bring a fresh mind a fresh ideas another 50% manager want to promote someone inside so it's all 50-50 it depends on who you are which means when you jump you can jump to the other teams manager as well it's all relationships off-scale based okay awesome and Nancy do you have one maybe two more minutes for answer one last question yeah okay so I think this is a someone asked about on the chat window like how do you so we talk about all the you know getting the race successfully but if you fail to get a salary for your current manager then this happens a lot how do we deal with the aftermath no I think there's no failure in asking a race you didn't get it I don't see this as a failure first of all give a crudel to you because you ask lots of people do not ask even if they underpaid and the second even if you couldn't get it here this year nobody will hate you for oh she asked for more money this year I just start to hate her I wouldn't bring her to my new job new project anymore nobody hates you for you to ask for more money if you know how to ask if you know using the principal teacher today you will never nobody will hate you you'll never have a backlash the only thing is that how can you win or get more next year so I would I would encourage people to ask use the right methodology I bet 95% of you today on the chat you don't know your rank no wonder people you ask before I can give you your C level your rank C no wonder can give you don't even know your C or B or A I challenge all of you I find out that first then you have reasonable legit reason to ask you know where you stand you know whether it's you're already a top A of course you cannot get it's not a failure top already right so because you guys you guys don't know what's on the table okay thank you so much Nancy I know you ran out of time so we're gonna wrap it up right here and you have all doctor Nancy's contact information and the YouTube channel you can also just kind of questions I think that some of them can probably answer some of your questions already so let's stop here and then see you also I think you also have an email address somewhere right so make sure that they can see it and they can reach out to you I think there's a lot of questions that can be answered unfortunately we ran out of time so we'll have you maybe just reach out to Nancy in after session and then I'm sure she you know she has time she can work with you and she also offered those two additional services for bootcamp and also negotiation services for you you know at the right compensation so just reach out to her and everyone appreciate joining our session appreciate doctor Nancy for joining us and giving us such wonderful talk we have more session coming up in the coming month more specifically on the influence and also there's more discussion about some other soft skill that we like to touch on so again appreciate everyone's time and then please give us feedback thank you so much and then yet email address is drnancylee at gmail.com so please write it down take a picture of it and feel free to reach out to her after session thank you so much and have a great weekend appreciate everyone's time okay guys thank you thank you Daniel alright thank you bye