 Yeah, let's see developer review board in January 16th. We are on zoom and live. And just we'll say we take up items that they are on the agenda, as they are on the agenda. And recall item to ask the applicant and anybody else who's going to speak on it to sign in. Soon, identify yourselves, if you care, we have a sign in the sheet. And we'll take testimony on those as appropriate. And so our first item is a scent and agenda. Yes, is 362 Riverside is the applicant online at the right. Yes, Benjamin Avery for the applicant. Okay, so this is as a consent item. Have you seen the staff report and are you okay with it as consent. Yeah. Anybody with more objective previous as a consent. I don't know. Is there anybody in the public who is just to speak on 362 Riverside. Okay, so I can have a motion. It's for a ton of extension on just been approved for us. I did actually have just one question on it. I know this was already approved for the extension. I saw that there is a bike parking area, but that there's no number of spaces or design considerations for that is that. Is that going to be compliant with all the minimum bike parking requirements currently in ordinance as well as the construction of those bike parking accommodations. We're not really reviewing the application at this point and it has approval and I don't know how that wording is in the approval. Okay. I'm hoping that back up. I believe it at that. Okay, if that's not the case, then yeah, I'm fine with moving it forward to the extension. So moved to a second place. All in favor. I am. Passes five to zero. Mr. Avery. Thank you very much. I appreciate the time. However, brief it was. Thank you. Next item on the agenda is the apple tree point and the applicant has requested has requested defer. Is that to a date? Certainly. It is. It will be the first meeting in February. They did not have the storm water plan ready for conservation board conservation board only once a month. So they're both the February 5th conservation board and they can be ready February 6 for this board. Okay, so we're going to have a motion to defer this to that February 3. So, I can change. Okay. All in favor. Evan. I. Okay. Let's let's hear what's the name there, Evan. Julian Julian. He's not he, he or she, he, he is, he is currently getting changed. Okay. Next item is. Shelburne street says 165 children street champagne house and trust. Proposed renovation of existing facility is the applicant here. I'm looking at this from the side. Anybody else? I got one of the person that's coming, but they're not. I think we get started. Okay. Is there anybody. Do we have anybody in the public marriage? We, we do. Is anybody in the public interested in speaking on. One, six. One, six. I see Sharon. I see Sharon. Sharon, are you going to be speaking on this? Just giving her up. Sharon, would you like to speak on this matter? You're muted. You're muted for a moment. Yeah. She's not there any longer. Oh, it's just that. Hello. Are you here? Something happened. You made me as a panelist. That's what happened anyways. Yes. I would like to speak, but I'm going to be leaving at 530. So if my time hasn't come up, I won't be able to speak. That's okay. Roger. Subway. I'll just swear to you in and you are. Amy Dimachowitz also. Because it's on our way. But you're most worried her in. So whether you swear to tell the truth or hope for the pain and battle of your murdering. Yes. I do. So. If we could pull up the application back in there, I can start walking you through it. I won't say that I found the application very confusing. It's very piecemeal. It's very hard to get a sense of the overview of what's being asked and presented so. I see it has the project has been incrementally changing as clear that would be great. I think. Is there one plan you would prefer? I think that the PDF that was the board packet was what I thought was was pretty complete. Sorry, the screen just went. So, okay. Talks amongst yourselves. I'll remember not to touch the screen. Maybe you can give an overview. So the overview is it's a 1950s hotel. A 3rd floor was added in 1979. We purchased this building in 6 months ago. We took it over from a new place because they can no longer manage it. We're operating it as a hotel. It is a shelter for homeless people experiencing homelessness. We are getting money for my house and conservation board. So, she's owning the property. CBO is operating the shelter and we'll be. We have a MOU with them for 3 years of operation 2 years of operation. I'm not exactly sure about that. And we've gotten some money from BHCB to do some renovations. There is the hotel building and then there is the. There's a lot of choices. Anyway, so there's a there's a house. The old house here. And there was a hotel. There was a pool that is already been filled in was filled in 5 years ago or so. Is that grass now? Right now, this the dotted lines are existing concrete. The pool apron is still there. They just dump dirt in the pool. And so this is the current office. Originally, we were proposed to put the office over here, but the staff after having operated for a few months and decided that they'd rather keep the office where it is, but we wanted to make a bit of a vestibule entry. We are planning on sprinkling the building, which is not required by code. Strangely enough, but because they exit directly to the exterior. The building, that's why all the hotels are like that with an open circulation is to avoid sprinkling, but we don't want to serve this population without a sprinkler for obvious reasons. So we're planning a sprinkling this building, but to sprinkle that building. And not this one. Then we need to we need to disconnect this here. So, so there's, and then this is the, this is the guest laundry over here. And currently, and we're just be expanding that slightly. And but we need an accessible route across there. And we need an accessible route to the offices. There's something down. What's that? There's a there's a roof. A roof over here. That is, this is actually the ridge runs this way. It's a very odd little, it's just a little vestibule thing that goes in between there. And one of the one of the PDFs in there has the Yeah, so this is this this outline here that I've cut away for this drawing is where that roof is currently. So there's basically just enclosed vestibule that is was probably an open vestibule one point but it's been enclosed more and more over time and so we're just going to So what we really need to do for the site to operate it properly is we have to control access because having uncontrolled access is a nightmare in a situation like that. So we need to have some way to get people to come in through a single entry. And so that's what we're going to, you know, use the vestibule for is to create the entry into the control the entry into the into the property, then the office will be just to the side and they can get into the fence. We have a gate in the fence because we want to have some sort of way to if you know if emergency services needs to come in, we want to have some way for them to be able to open up and get direct access. So that's the What so then this would be where the covered bike storage would be with the you know we just instead of having this slope roof we would just have a piece of flat roof that would cover up the little five by 16 entry that we would do on the office and then the rest of the This existing concrete block wall would be create the the covered porch essentially that would cover the bikes. So it's a bike. So we have covered by parking because that's what our guests are using for transportation that and the public bus. Not a single there's one broken down car on the property that is a guest and doesn't move very often. What other things. So there's a that one there. I guess was going to have other things to explain. Let's go back to the floor plans, just so we can walk through those. I guess it's not really that much to show and they say that, you know, basically, all these bathrooms all the drains and all the bathrooms are not in great shape are in horrible shape. And so we need to replace all that. So there's, you know, 30 bathrooms that need to be done. The other thing is. So this is the depending on which side you're on so there's a steep grade change. So from the front in the 1950s that building was two stories. They added the third story. So now it's three stories in the front and really four stories from the back. And there's really not a picture of it because you can't really get back far enough to see it. And there's full grown, you know, four story tall cedars in the back so I can't really even get a picture from another location. So, back to that. So on the backside of here, there's some decks overlooking some back decks. We need to maintain, we want to maintain those for you need to have that as a secondary means of egress is to have those are their sliders currently. If you go to that, that floor plan that had the fourth floor there. One one back. Yeah, this one here. So we need to. Right now this is all one big open deck. And as you can imagine, there can be disputes between people on that deck. And before, you know, before we took over the property. There's a lot of issues about people on the decks, shouting with the neighbors kind of thing that hasn't happened in any time. The past couple years you really since, since a new took it over even they've had that under control but still that you know I talked to the neighbors, and you know, they're not really comfortable with somebody sitting out on their deck. And, you know, looking down into the, you know, into their property. So, the neighbors would like it to be an opaque. Railing. And from our standpoint, we've got. And it's a residence. Sorry. Yes. I can't remember what property run guess who, you know, might be having mental health prices, you know, various other situations and we want to make sure that there's a solid rallying. And that is, you know, four feet high. And also it's like trauma informed design want to create a safe, you know, safe space, right they want to feel enclosed you know it's why you see some people are putting tin foil over their windows and that sort of stuff is a, you know, a lot of the population just really wants to be, you know, enclosed so we're proposing subdividing these porches and then creating a solid rallying on the back to create more closure around those porches. These walls will be full height. So we would go floor to ceiling the floor to floor height in this building is very, very low. There is really only. It's, it's really less than eight feet. There's really not the structure of the building that originally was country block walls. And then the decking is three inch G and G decking. That is the entire floor structure 12 foot six clear span. So, yeah, it's a very short floor to floor then the third floor they just looks like they just tore off the old roof, and then they, you know, put in some two by eights or something like that but still very, pretty short floor to floor. The railings has a corrugated. Yeah, I was proposing a corrugated metal as the rallying material because I want something that's fireproof. There's a, there's a, I guess if you show one of the section the elevations of the photographs you can see the, well, it was back on that one too but that one here so there was this thing was here these little sunshade things on the top floor they've converted that to a roof, but it was never engineered to be have a roof on it. It was just, you know, had some at one point probably had, you know, two by fours on edge that's a sunshading structure so this current setup as having a piece of roof here is, is not engineered as such. Yeah, that's all that's those things there. The siding on that side is the wood siding. So, yeah, the siding, if you go to that, there's a picture, the only one picture that shows the Gable end. Even. What's that the south end. Also, these are all so. It's okay. So next one. So this is, this is the first and second floor are. I don't really know what the original siding was because, you know, we don't really, there's no description in the documents, but that first and second, or, yeah, first and second floors would be is bored and batten. The third floor is all shift lab. So if you go to any of the detail anything that shows the that that one there showed it. So we got bored and bad and bored and bad. That one here. So this, this whole level up here is all ship lab. And is that same. Well, I'm proposing replacing this with a more durable material or something because this is really almost five floors up. So getting to this. So they painted the other side of the building but they didn't paint this side because you have to put a lift on the other neighbors property to get up there, and probably do some tree clearing to get up there because it's just, it's almost inaccessible. That's why that's why I was trying to come up with something that was vertical and low maintenance. You know, I could do, you know, a vertical vinyl, but that stuff looks awful. And so, really, that's how I landed on the metal was something was vertical and low maintenance. Excuse me, but I'm also here with the champagne. Well, we didn't know we thought we were second, but we were first swear you and say your name and tell the truth the whole truth on the panel. Yes, I do. My name is Aiden DeMetro. It's I'm also in the sheltering housing trust. And I just wanted to speak to that issue as this is the one section that appears is an adverse finding in the staff report. We talked about the sign that was the second issue. We can talk about that. But this side, again, it's just the south side at the fourth floor that you cannot see from the street because the house that's up along the street kind of locks any kind of view. I'm very overwhelmed with many, many trees that are on our neighbor's property. You cannot see this site. This side. It's very, very difficult to access because our property line is almost up against the building. So for us to get up there and regularly maintain will be a negotiation with our neighbor, which is why Donald was looking at a more durable maintenance free material and to keep the verticality of what you've got there with the shift latch in. But then we can put it up there. We won't have to deal with maintaining it for a long time. The alternative, if you feel like that really will compromise the historic character is that we can try to go up there with a left scrape and repair as best we can and leave it, but it'll likely look like that again and you know three three to five years and you won't be able to do that. She won't be able to get the lift out there and go up five stories every three to five years. There's going to be alternative materials for vertical installation like the cementitious type of word. Our understanding is they don't make the cementitious as a shift lap. No, they don't make like a shift lap or a word that in the in the cementitious siding. They do have like a vinyl siding that's vertical. It felt like the metal was the preferable to the vinyl. Yeah, you know in the, and just labor wise in the install and all that sort of stuff is just the, you know, the metal is a sheet good you can get as long as you want. And, you know, board and baton is going to be, you know, a lot more pieces putting up there, you know, a difficult waterproofing detail. So it just the other vertical siding option is like T 111. Right. You know that that won't really work out there. It's not not really needed to be durable. So that's that was the, you know, coming to the, to the metal oriented siding. But again, if it feels like it's, you know, really going to compromise the historic character we disagree that it will just give it where it is given the lack of visibility from any public way. It's still really, really strongly that it's not going to compromise. And also that addition that talk was built in 1979. So it's also not store components of the existing structure. So that's our argument in favor of the mess I existing south west side, just the west side is board and baton. The existing west side on the first two floors. The, the, the presumed 1950s area is board and baton. And the third floor is the same. Is, yeah, is a, it looks like it's a ship lap. But you can't. But you can, you can maintain that one where is this on the wet south side here. You can't. I just can't get to it. Yeah. I mean, I, and the. I guess I'll just back and it's hard not this, maybe I may not have a good picture of this. It's hard not to see. This is a real hot spot of dealing with problem here and problem there and this and that. And the end, it's going to look really bad. And maybe I'm wrong, but it's hard to get an impression that you've really got an overall sense that you're going to make this building. You're repairing this building and it's going to have some sense of a hole when you're done. I would argue the, especially the front facade, which is public visible. We're not really making a lot of changes. We're making some changes to make it more functional for the use that it has now. On the south side facade, we're just looking to make that change because it's a more durable, maintainable material on the back. In the top floor, we're going to make that a more solid rail again for functionality. I don't know is that I honestly, I think the building right now is kind of hodgepodge. It was built in the 50s and then there was the addition that was built in 1979. So, and then you're putting a six foot high vinyl fence in front of it. That's right. Yes. Yes, on the front side. So, I mean, that tributes to the sense that, you know, it's it is, it is a place where I got to prioritize, you know, the bathrooms in this place are unlivable. I mean, the lot of the interior spaces are really unlivable. And I got to produce, I got to preserve my budget for these things that are absolutely essential for housing and, you know, keeping our, you know, guests in a, you know, in a safe and, you know, solitary environment. And it's just those, you know, we like to do things that are good looking, but they don't always have that opportunity. Is your concern with the final material or is it with creating a fenced import card? My concern is that it's really going to look like this is done as cheaply as possible. And we're just trying to house a bunch of people that we don't really care about. I know that's not the actor, but that's what I'm. I don't know if it's going to look like when you're all said and done. There's no landscaping that's visible to anything that nothing done to soften the place. It just is doing the minimum they can do to make it work. I understand that financially this problem. No, I guess actually the reason that we're doing that courtyard is to make it softer because people. People, they're the people. Yeah. We need privacy. They want outdoor private space, not going to look around display. We don't have a landscaping plan, but the intention is to remove that sign in the front. Yeah. And to get to that issue of adverse finding about the sign. We will reduce that height to 60. No problem at all. But we'll be removing that sign that and making some, you know, cleaning up essentially that landscape island in the front. The front is really all paid. I just started waiting and we have someone else. I know Sharon was going to be available to 530. You want to allow them to talk. I have another gentleman. So it takes a public comment. Would you like to provide comment? I feel like the, the DRB isn't finished their exploration. So I feel odd doing this, but my only comments were that any, and you're getting to some of this. I attended the DAB meeting where there were, I really wanted to applaud the DAB. They really tried to, and there were two meetings. They really tried to work with this applicant to, and I know it's affordable housing and I know it's an important housing and I understand the limitations of budget, but the, I understand you also don't get the details of the DAB minutes, which is unfortunate because a lot of people with a lot of skills just like yourselves came forward with what they felt were some really responsible and not breaking the bank recommendations that were not actually entertained. There was the first meeting, some recommendations came forward, the applicant came back and made no changes. And I agree with your statement that, that, you know, I've lived in Burlington a long time, and I know about rental property, not this type of housing, but I do know about this type of housing now, but anyways, I think that where people live and how it looks really gives them pride and makes them feel valued, and I don't think that can be underscored. And so I'm very disappointed that the applicant wasn't able to take some of the suggestions made by the DAB to make enhancements to this that were structurally sound. And I'm not an architect, but I, I was very disappointed that there was no resolution, and that the DAB ultimately ended up saying, denying this project. And so that's those are my comments. I don't have, I'm not an architect, but I'm disappointed and I really felt that there could be some things done structurally to make the building look better and still keep it affordable. So that's it. Thank you so much for making time for me. Thank you, Sharon. So maybe we can finish the board comments. Yes, I'm sorry. I just had a comment about this. Priority France going along the front of the six foot one offense. It just seems that traveling long that section just before you get to the board degree. This is a real highly visible place and so I want that to be something that's shocked me why I was wondering, would you have to say considered something different there to like maybe landscaping with several fans. To towards the privacy there, we look a little nicer. There are, there are certain types of drugs that could put there that goes as privacy and a barrier. So that's a suggestion on my part. I also want to know if, if you're a consultant. I have conversations with the fire marshal and discuss with them about if they're happy with it. I'm happy with it. Just make sure that. Yeah, I mean, we did a truck turn for the, for the diagram for the, for is for the truck. And we sent the drawing and that's just too bad. Yes, he hasn't. We've been in conversations about this property several times. And there is a double gate access into the court. The other reason that we have that fence proposed is to maintain security. So in terms of doing more of the landscape I get your point would be softer. It would also be more for us. There are issues with having every single door at every single room is sort of accessible to anybody who kind of comes on site. And so the staff in terms of managing the site really wants more control access so that they can see who's coming going instead of having someone come around. You know, go through the bushes and get into one of the upstairs rooms and so there's really two purposes to that courtyard into the fence in particular. I have a question. Who's speaking. Sorry, I'm homesick today didn't want to infect all of you. Thank you. With the fence that we were just talking about I didn't see any note about clear sight lines but this is going through the driveways so doesn't it need to be reduced to three feet within the clear sight line triangles. It's parallel to the building. It's way back it's set off way back off the road. So it's not an entire. It's not on the property line it's it's 20 feet off the building which the building is 60 feet off the road. Caitlin do you have that can you see the the site plan. Got it okay. No parking that's where the cursor is now that's where the fences is proposed. So it sits quite a bit back. But it fully closes. The same link fence goes all the way to the front of the property correct. And the other issue is fire department said many times was that they do not want people smoking too close to the building. So I'm trying to move. You know I know that I need to have a smoking area. And so I need to move that farther away from the building so that's sort of like some of the push pull on the front courtyard. Perhaps you could do a combination of fence and some landscaping. The truck turn is just enough room there to get the truck and come in there and turn that's the, I would say that on the landscaping piece. My experience with these sorts of situations is that I can get. As a staff member we just that's now taking the charge of the building was a master garden. And I would love to be able to give him free reign to make landscaping improvements over over the, you know, as we come into the spring, things like that. And I would give them, you know, we will, you know, provide them funds to do that. It's just me specifying those things at this point is is often a Lucy battle. There's often I'm specifying things that aren't appropriate, or they don't know anything about or, you know, I know that the CDO is really big on, you know, they run the fleet shelf and they really like to do some garden beds and so they're talking to be raised beds along the back. So I think I think there will be more softening. The other issue is, right now they're plowing all the snow onto the south end of the site. And I don't think that's really. Right now they're plowing. They just push all snow over to here and fill up all these parking spots and this and you know, essentially push it over into our neighbors property. And I don't think I think we really need to plow onto these, you know, green belt areas to bow for some infiltration and that sort of stuff. So, you know, some of it is I want to give time for us to see where the plowing is so that we aren't planting something and then killing it with a snow plow. So the other other element we didn't really talk about was, you know, I can't see I can't see where you're pointing to but were you saying 123456 for basically where they're plowing and then the green belt being that like section kind of on the east side of the. So I've clouded in an area for snow storage there, which is pretty much the only place that I've got. That's actually would be a viable snow storage area. The other thing I just wanted to talk about was we did. Currently the the dumpsters are right in the front yard. And that's obviously not in compliance with the rules. So we have moved everything over to here. And then we'll be using this. This is our driveway shared with the neighbor. So that was a little expensive pill to swallow because this is, you know, not as not as effective or not as easy access as over there, but this will be the tote storage area. I would also say that our focus really is on making it a comfortable place for the people who are staying there. So there are a lot of inputs planned that are going to make the experience of staying there. Much more comfortable, including adding a lift to the home, the single family home on the front so that we can provide more services there that are accessible. And then all of the upgrades that Donald's talked about terms of plumbing and flooring and that's where that's where a lot of our focus is it's really on making it a comfortable and dignified place to stay. I know that she has a great reputation for doing exactly that throughout the city and many, many projects. It's also sort of a more dilemma because there's a lot of examples of projects done in the 60s where public housing projects where they said, well, we don't have to worry about the steps we're going to give a good place to live. And those places that have all been torn down and destroyed because they were unbelievable. I'm not saying that it's going to happen here but that's sort of the, you know, that aesthetic end of things which seems so superfluous isn't really that superfluous. I guess my point is we're not making that many changes to the building do you think that the building is unattractive, but I don't know. I think putting the fence in front of the building makes a statement that we're warring this thing off. And we've got nothing, you know, there's no means nothing we're just adding a fence here and whatever happens behind that, we're just throwing people back. That's where it feels. I know that that's not the intention. And so that people can have some privacy outside, have a cigarette, be private, and then also to control that access so that anybody who's staying there doesn't feel like anybody on the street can call. I understand that quality of life thing that is the way to do that. But really, our focus is sort of inside out and the, and the out is, you know, the residents don't, they're not, they're not interacting with that and that sort of way. I mean, I spent a lot of time on the property and met the people and, you know, see the struggles that are happening. And I've been in the rooms, and I can barely get the electrical inspector to go into the rooms because they smell so bad. And it's just, it's, I really feel like we have to, you know, keep our focus on the interiors and systems that have been upgraded. And, you know, we make good looking buildings all the time, and we would love to be able to, you know, make it aesthetic aesthetically pleasing, but it's like it just doesn't make it on the list of us. You know, just, we're going to try to be as thoughtful as possible, but there's other factors. But again, if it what you're saying it comes down to that fence. And so are there other ways that we can, again, privacy and security. You always go fence for privacy and security. I think there's some ways to help. Inside and outside of that, you know, whether it's a couple of ceasars on the inside, a couple of ceasars on the outside. In potted, we could do like potted plants because it's also all paved. And we're not, you know, in a position to want to discover what might be underneath the pavement. You know, there have been soils become an issue when we start digging into areas that we don't necessarily need to dig into. Yeah, but we could certainly look at, you know, adding some potted cedars. I think the fence is really important. Social issues of security and privacy. I do have someone else with the embrace when you're ready. That's chase. Evan or Caitlin, do you have any more questions for the applicant at this point. I'm all set. The only other thing I want to, I think, in terms of sort of preservation, we're not really the issues. I think what needs to be said is right now. That was really exciting. And I just, okay, I just tried to outline, you know, in the, if you look at the, you know, the original write up on the building, you know, they already take a picture of the building. So it, it was, you know, it was just describing the building as how it relates to the other quality buildings that they saw around it, and how it, although, what does it say, although modern design and set back from the line of this is this conforms to color scheme and roof porch and roof motifs maintains high scale surrounding buildings. So the height and scale is totally changed because of the addition of 1979. So it just, there's nothing here that's calling out to saying like, this is a historic element that we that was important when we wrote this thing down and we weren't even actually talking about this bill because we just drew an arrow on another picture without calling out. So again, our intention is we're keeping all of the siding, except for the south table up on the floor and wanting to replace that with a vertical more easily maintainable interoperable tier. But if that, you know, if you disagree, then we can keep what's there and we'll do our best to scrape paint and repair. When I think of the paper siding, I think of a very galvanized steel color, if we're not that way, right? Dark color, some sort of. It's sort of a steel color. Yeah, the color would just be the bill finish. Would you say? That's a large, similar color to the end of the building. Yeah, that might be. It's surprisingly not reflective. When you see it, it's more of a like, a model kind of it's not like a shiny stainless steel corrugated it's a little gray. The real issue is it just, you just can't really see it. You know, I was harder for me to find, get an angle to get a picture. And so it was, you know, if it was the front of the building, I guess it'd be a different discussion. A lot of the DAB discussion was about the design of the railing and wanting to mimic that screen on the front. And it just wasn't. I'm just talking about this. So able now you can't really see it. I actually did print out from the street view. I don't know if this is useful at all, but there's no angle where you can see it at all from the public way. Our neighbor to the south can probably see it if they look through the trees, but it's really not a visible. And that's what makes it so difficult to maintain as well. This one person from the public. Is that true? Yes. Nicholas Barbiero, you're free to speak. And could I just swear you in Nicholas that you would swear to tell the truth and hold to the pain and penalty of perjury. I do. Yeah. Sorry, we have a sick baby. So apologies for the background noise, but I guess I'm my wife and I are here, but we live directly behind the building and had a question regarding kind of the proposed smoking area. I saw one document mentioned something about removing the smoking vestibule and kind of relegating smoking to kind of the back porches. The reason I asked when a new first open, we kind of dealt with a lot of challenges at the beginning with a lot of secondhand smoke coming into our backyard, not being able to kind of open windows. There's a lot of noise because people are kind of out there at all hours smoking, and then just kind of a lot of like kind of trash being thrown in the backyard and cigarette butts. So I don't know if that's if just hoping if you can clarify like what the proposed smoking area would be if it's going to be allowed to be kind of on the back porches again just because it created just kind of a lot of like quality of life issues. That's a great question. There is no smoking allowed in the building, the smoking shelter and it's in now isn't it? Yes, smoking shelters in now and it's in approximately the location. Looks like a little bus shelter. It's on the front of the building. Right. I think I might have been mistaken, but I thought one of the notes that said that that was to be removed in that. When you say that there's no smoking in the building, but I guess I'm talking about like kind of like for the top floors have kind of like a back kind of patio thing. I'm wondering if it's like all getting smoking to those areas. No smoking is allowed anywhere in the building or in those back porches. Okay, great. Okay. And then the second question we had was there's a lot of kind of cedar bushes behind the building. I'm wondering if there's any plans to kind of remove those or trim those down or kind of what your thoughts were for any updates behind the building. Absolutely not. I think those are the best most effective screen we've got. We did some trimming down close to the ground. So that our cameras can see clearly back there so that we could know what was happening. In the in the back of the back of the property. So that was the only that was the only clearing what we've done so far is pretty much all we're going to do is for landscaping the bag. Okay, great. That answers my question. Thank you very much for your time. Thanks for being a good neighbor. Thank you. Any other questions from the floor. I was looking that for the roofing that's going to be on this building mentioned a double road thing. So that roofing is the previous permit, not for this current permit. So what's on this? What's on the curve. There's no roofing on that. I just need a flat roof. But just that's only on this portion. This portion will be a flat roof. No, that was so there is, but it does mention roofing in one of the, one of the previous permits that was. That was, I don't know if it's still open. I was trying to try and hard to close a lot of these permits, but I think it was just listed in the, in the deal. List of permits in the documents. So that's just prior permits replaced asphalt memory. So there's a membrane roof on the main body of that. Just looking at longevity of materials. No, no, it's as a, as a membrane roof on the main roof now. We would put a membrane on that flat. And it's same animal aspect of things, right? Yeah. I did find newspaper counts that when this building was under construction, a fourth story was added that had not been permitted was only important adjustment in the architecture is driven to bridge to provide testimony. That's the 79 drawings. That's why I think it's 79 drawings are 79. I only know because I found these documents when we found old zoning permits in the attic of city hall and I filed them then so this project is not without some history. So, was it 79 deciding and did the front screen or something? It was earlier. The screening story and property questions. Here's the project. Yeah. We're going to close public care. Thank you. I really appreciate your time. I appreciate all the staff's time. I'll be delivered today. Okay. One more item on the agenda that is. You can take it. Do they do? In the street? I'm a senior. And I know. Anybody else in the public. Wishing to speak or 52 issue of street. So can you're raising? Okay. But anybody on zoom. I'm Nils Gunn. Nils. As you guys. Michael and Cameron, do you want to, three of you want to raise your hand and do you swear to tell to the adults of pain and penalty of hurt or? Yeah. Okay. So we have an application in front of us from staff comments about yours. Sure. So I bought this property two and a half years ago and have been doing, it's a two bedroom, or sorry, two unit, three bedrooms on each floor, two flex right now. I've been doing a significant amount of improvements to the interior over that period of time with tenants as well. My owner occupied it on the second floor. And so in November of 2021, when I bought it, I applied for permitting to condition the attic for some background. I'm a local electrician. I do a variety of work that I needed storage, et cetera. So we went forward, conditioned that spray foam really improved the environmental stand footprint and then applied for a permit for a bathroom up there or modified the permit rather with, this was with Ryan Morris at the time. And the real, where the problems began, I guess is we needed to have external access in the rear. And once we started to pick apart the rear second floor porch roof, their significant amount of rot, right, of other issues. So you'll see there's quite a few permits open on the property right now. Some of them are completely irrelevant to this application to the attic, such as working on a bathroom and doing some changes to a kitchen, et cetera. But then we learned we had to cover this and it seemed to make more sense at the time to extend the roof, changing it from a hip to a gable, which seems to be a point of contention, as opposed to having just a freestanding structure above the stairwell. And so on nights like tonight, protecting that stairwell from snow has been pretty significant. And then, well, just to clarify, the original roof was hip down the back. It was. And the normal. And when you originally insulated it, was it still hip? It was. And then you've changed it from hip to gable. Yeah, and extended the ridge line through the rear. Yeah. Evenly or unevenly to the rear, right? Correct, yep, it's, you know, it is standing seam metal, but it's almost a slate color. It looks good in my opinion, not a group of grays. That was a permanent thing? Yes. And that is still kind of the slate work? Yep. So it goes from metal to slate? It does, yeah. And so that's a covered open porch. And so that was finished roughly in the spring or the rough. I want to know that the rear, it's a construction right now so it doesn't look beautiful. That's why I'm here today. We really want to close it all up and get all that trimmed down in the spring. And so last spring when this bonus came on my radar, it was always a hope of mine one day financially allowing to completely get that attic and turn it into a third unit. And so this is now where we stand. Yep. So basically that's, we want to finish it with the matching the elevation that you present here for the first building and have it be a additional unit. And what was the criteria for that? How many additional units is- It's a discretionary review. And the rehabilitation is done following the standards of section five, four and three. I think the purpose of that section is to encourage the rehabilitation. So it's not just got historic structure. You can put a third unit into this. Sure, yeah. You put a third unit in and put a quote, so to speak, is that you actually restore building something that's historic. Yeah, so we're planning to get a little more about- Sure, yeah. Sorry, I should have touched on that. So the front of the building, we're planning to remove the asbestos and below the asbestos is a clapboard that's in pretty good shape. So we want to restore that, repair all the fachas on this front lower porch deck, remove the, when I bought it three years ago, the owner just put on a sloppy railing with pressure treated wood that's just to sell it. And so we want to remove all that, restore it and then put garden beds and where that lattice material is and build a new stair up. So the railing that there is there now, that's a pressure treated rail painted white. Yeah. And you're going to restore it too. We're going to just remove that too. Exactly, you can see sort of half way where the railing is, is the original. So we were going to rebuild that looking identical, see here. You're seeing existing railings? In the top left, if you can zoom in. Oh, so that is the existing railing, the original. Yeah, but maybe if you're able to zoom in, you can see the second half, they essentially just extended the existing railing that's in 3D or shape, there's some rod, et cetera. So that whole front face, we want to restore and add some additional stuff such as the garden beds and completely new stairs up to that porch. And the siding, when you're all done, you've done the original wood siding. For the front? Yes. And what about the side? I don't think you know about the side too. Yeah, so the side, the asbestos is in very good shape and it's only a few feet off of the neighbors. So we're hoping to keep that. And you also can't see it much at all from the street or from the rear. And then the rear face in the bottom left that's had most of the construction would be all new siding. So top right photograph, that's the side that's the side you're replacing? No, right. No, we would be replacing the top left. Just the left side. Yeah, so everything which street would look good and then the sides of the house are in pretty good shape. We're going to replace all of the window trims with wood. Those are in rough shape. The window trims or the window trims? The window trims. The windows were replaced about seven years ago but the sills and trims where they looked and never been replaced. Yeah. The main trim, I get wood stormed. Yeah. Wood storms and wood windows that would be good to start. The existing windows are a slurry of wood in vinyl. Yeah, it's metal-climbed material. I mean, it makes sure some of the wood's on. Yeah, they didn't seem to replace every window. The sides of the home have been replaced though but it consistently ends up on it. The roof is a slate roof, except for the roof right there. Yeah, and I had it completely restored. Yeah, and it's in great shape. I have a report on one of the permits that says it should have a good half century. Can't marry this is your project? Yes it is. So I'm trying to understand that 125% balance. So if the language is gross for an area, would we typically include attic space, unfinished attic space in a gross? Gross for area as it's defined in this area that is occupied, occupied human habitation. So unfinished basements would not count. Unfinished attics would not count. Gross for area is unfinished. So this one's a little bit complicated. Gression work here. So when you were calculating the gross floor area, did you include the portion of the attic that was that I guess considered habitable? I'm trying to figure out how to treat that area because it wasn't a unit and it was finished. Also by definition habitable space excludes storage and bathrooms only by definition. It's been several weeks since I referenced the staff for tour but I believe a good calculation didn't know what the assessor reckoned. Dispatched space. Loved. Two bathrooms are not consumed. By the Sonicove, balance rooms, hallways, storage area and so on and so forth. But it's habitable to put one gross floor. Yeah. So I'm trying to figure out how denominator or denominator has a equation of 120.5%. The amount that you use seemed to hide it. It was based on, frankly, my own house and what square footage was on it was just looking at the side of this house. TVA. So I would say they wanted to revisit a lot of them, those areas that were identified as places of store area that was habitable. Seems like in my mind then it should only, the denominator should only include the gross floor area of the first and second. And then we should figure out what we're adding is more than already 20. There's also something that's over 100.5% of that. Is that right? That sounds logical. The funny thing with that calculation is how the bathroom dark houses habitable space then are they part of the added space within that part of the space? Or you can build this space for most of the second and then you add back into that space. Yeah. I don't know. And I'll be blunt. I'm also not 100% sure that the way the ordinance is written. I'm not sure I would have written it this way, but I'm not sure that it grossed floor area. It talks about an expansion of the structure, I think, not necessarily gross floor area. So I want to understand an expansion of up to a total or 25% of the added portion gross floor area. So I don't know if you interpret the expansion, I mean expanding the building or the gross floor area. Another interesting dimension of this is the zoning code is very different from the building code. The zoning code doesn't recognize the bathroom on the third floor as habitable space, but the creation of that required, according to the applicant, required egress on the building which spurred the application for the rear staircase. So this was a concatenation of responses that ultimately resulted in this request for a third floor unit. And the third floor unit, the other question I had, is it otherwise would meet building code requirements? Because it seems like a very sharp peak and low overhead. So I just want to make sure that it does. It does, it will have to meet life safety code as well and spread wearing is required for third floor units. But we have to read that for this building 4,780 quads quarter feet seems pretty big. That's a lot. It seems often the calculation, it seems like we should go back to, what's the first floor and second floor with a gross floor area. Make sure we have that number right, so that we know how much can be expanded. So my house is only 25-inch square foot. How long does it have on the accessory? Can't be more than seven-inch square feet up there, so. Yeah, the expansion's, the expansion on here is described as 977 square feet. Does that include the overhead porch? The first, the assessor provides the first floor as 1,065 feet. The second floor is 977. And the attic with finished space is defined as 488 feet. I have a question about the bathroom that was previously added to the attic. What unit was that a part of when it was added? So the bathroom hasn't actually been fully added. We've been on a pretty big pause in anticipation, maybe of getting this bonus. But the idea was to provide a bathroom for the second floor unit because it doesn't have much of a living room scenario as well as a really rundown bathroom. And the location of it in the attic is right by the stairwell that connects to the second floor. So it was convenient. So that was the original plan is that you were adding a bathroom to the second unit, but now you're looking for to split that off as a third unit. Yeah, it was essentially my thinking. So you guys understand was it was gonna be a storage hybrid spot for my personal business, essentially. And also give us a little more luxury in our bathroom. I guess, just to understand how is one access a third unit? So the rear stairwell would be the main, really the only egress if it's a separate unit. I would probably owner occupy it for quite a few years and I rent out to peers and colleagues really. So there's also an interior stairwell that connects. So it's almost a giant unit if you wanted it to be, but the idea would be to separate it completely. So there isn't a trunk staircase? There is, yeah. To keep it to code though, we are sprinkling every single floor, including the basement so that that internal staircase can be closed up. I don't know, Mary, can you give me those numbers again? Yes. Just doing my math here as we're talking. So I'm looking at the assessor's property database online and they provide that area of the attic was finished space as being 488.5. It's only up to the five foot head room, something like that. Well, they provide that the floor area is 977, but the finished area is 488.5. Currently finished area. That's how they're recording it. First floor 1065 square feet, second floor 977 square feet. That includes though, what zoning does not consider habitable in terms of hallways and bathrooms? Like we don't have a way to subtract that? If it says gross floor area, I don't know, why did you take that? I don't know why I think it's gross, gross floor. Well, I come to a total there of 2,530.5 square feet. 125 would be 3263. That's a lot. And so that's what you can go up to. And the four would be 2530 plus the four, whatever it is that for the third floor. I think it's 18%. Old map, I'm just doing an old map. You're not doing a map. No, we're doing it, sir. We have neighbors who would like to comment here from them. So that's coming up here. Yeah, it's just often. My name is Karen Long and we own 73 Mars Lillard, which is behind this property since 2004. And we live around the corner on Henry Street. So we spend a lot of time doing yard work and maintaining property. And we really love this property that we own. And actually we first bought our daughter lived there with her grandchildren and my son-in-law. So this has been upsetting to me because and we had a great relationship with the previous owner, but I'll tell you my story. So the landlord of 52 Eichen Street, the new landlord has done nothing to restore or rehabilitate the exterior of his building. Nor does he respect our CDO. He purchased the property in November, 2021 and began parking in the backyard. I first spoke to one of his tenants and she smirked while I explained locked coverage and runoff. She was making eye contact with someone who was in the garage. The parking continued. So I sent a complaint to code enforcement. Soon after I met the new owner in person and he was mad. He told me he paid half a million for the property and could do what he wants. I told him about zoning, lock coverage and runoff. And he said he knew about the lake because one of his tenants was an environmental studies major. So, we didn't have a very good neighborly relationship. Anyway, I was very alarmed when construction began because the owner had cut a hole in the second floor porch of the roof. Like if you see that picture, it used to have a second floor. In fact, I have pictures that I've sent Mary. It had a railing because it had a really cool open porch and he put a stairway in that porch. And I don't know if you can show the pictures, somebody. On up to the stairwell made like a stair so he can be working on this gable. And the gable in the back of the house went from like a window to like a single door. And it still had the hip roof with the slate. And then, you know, that buddy changed it to a door which I thought was weird. And I did write and ask about this. And I was, there's several emails in the file because I had exchanges with the lords, Scott Gustin and Ryan Morrison. They all confirmed the owner had a permit to add storage and a bathroom. And they emphasize there would be no additional living space. I thought that was weird who would put a stairway and the outside for storage especially hearing now it's electrical storage. That's heavy stuff to carry to the third floor. Anyway, it seemed weird, but I was, and I bet there's five or 60 emails back and forth different times as I sent pictures about what the state of building was. Anyway, I was really concerned when the slate roof was removed because from my friends and neighbors, we have all been told that you can't remove slate roofs. And maybe that's the rule that's changed. But anyway, I was totally out of permit. So I did send more pictures to the backyard has been a wreck with trash, debris, everything. And there are people living there and as a minimum housing thing that didn't seem right. So again, people in the city told me, you know, I mean, not much was happening. And then we were away, I got home, huge stack of mail and found out that this person was able to qualify or possibly qualify for a bonus because of this work that he was doing. I mean, in my mind, and I don't know, yeah, that's the back of the house on the left. That's how it was before with the hip roof and the little dormer in the window and that nice back porch. In my mind, the house has been ruined because that's how it looks now. And, you know, mainly because of the porch and the roof. And I was really upset that nobody informed me of this because there is a whole slew of emails. Since the spring of 2022, I was communicating with code and zoning because I thought this seemed really odd, this whole construction. So I'm asking you to deny the request. The owner has been disrespectful and fraudulent and should not be rewarded. He's done nothing to preserve, maintain or enhance property. I am also I'm not sure if you guys have the letters they both wrote, so you have to read them both into their prep button, promise them. Yeah, then, there's a little, so I know that there are people that know a lot more about Aishin Street than I do. And actually, perhaps somebody could tell us is it Aishin Street? I know Aishin Street started on a day one three, oh that's John the expert, I used to live on that street. Yeah. I have some sense of its history. And again, I know folks in my work can correct me on this. But, but my sense is that I can street today is very different from I should street, say when I moved to Burlington at all 70s and before that. And, and what I learned by doing a quick little bit of research today is that there are 44 residential units on I should street and 40 of them are are rental units and there are a couple of unoccupied houses and I guess Nils is this is now in one of them. I think it's, it's good. But there are very few on our occupied houses, Brian, she knows there and maybe other people, the vast majority of these properties are owned by people who don't even live in Burlington, some of them to live in Burlington, but, but not, but not there. So there was a time as I understand it when I should street was a lot like Henry Street is, it was now dominated by a modified houses, few rentals in a, in a real mix of residents, multi-generational babies and children and teenagers, people in mid career and, and people retired people. So for the real, real, what I consider a healthy makes a neighborhood. And what has happened in Isham over the years is that, well, mainly it was an economic opportunity to, to exploit the high demand for student rentals and a lot of people did very well by, by doing that. And in my mind, the city stood by and really advocated its responsibility to protect the neighborhood, enforce the code and do all those things that would have prevented the neighborhood from being degraded and I believe it's been significantly degraded. I think it's a shameful step, but there's it's a, it's, as I said, one of my communications, it's a, it's a poster child for an epic failure in city planning. And it's not just an action, but there are other other streets that have been sacrificed all around Burlington. So for me, this case is not just about this case, it's about, it's about a trend. And, and, and I'm surprised since we do have some regulations about historic preservation and so forth. I think it's highly ironic that, that this project could potentially qualify for a bonus unit to to historic preservation because, as I said, impressed, I've read as long to read this again, but I think I noted that it is the project is in many ways the opposite of historic preservation in that it's done all of the things that are prohibited under the under the law and the regulations. It says, let me read a little bit of it. And some of this would be a wholly inappropriate and even a perverse use of the historic preservation bonus. And it specifically and egregiously violates the requirement that to qualify for that bonus. New additions, this is a quote now, new additions, exterior alterations or related new construction will not destroy historic materials, features and spatial relationships that characterize the property. This renovation stands specifically to destroying the hip roof, destroying the floor of the hip roof. Now, I've seen lots of hip roofs with with with gable dormers and actually I think the dormer that was on this one before was actually a hip dorm. But, but I very I've never seen actually until this one, someone take a hip roof and put a big gable right from the top of it and totally replace the, the hip portion of the roof that was there before. And as a matter of fact, there's a property immediately behind my house on Henry Street that has a beautiful slate hip roof, like, like the one that had been on the Henry Street property. And I looked at it, and just imagining if he were to put, you know, put a rich line and a and a and a and a hip roof there on the back, it would be to my mind, a hideous thing for me to have to look at out my kitchen window every, every day. So, I think the permits that have been issued for this property have been generous, liberal, readily granted, without much regard for historic materials or historic character at all. And I think that is, is more than more than sufficient, and that adding an additional unit as a bonus would be obscene really. It would be, it would be just contrary to any kind of rational approach to city planning, historic preservation, etc. So thank you. For your time as for the calculations that you guys were discussing at some, at some length, those calculations as presented in the, in the staff findings were based on gross floor area, including even the basement and that's how how the calculation came to the one that Jeff thought seemed a little pie was like almost 1000, almost 1000 square feet so that that is definitely the kind of way way off and I don't think either the attic or the certain the basement shouldn't count. I don't think the attic should count at all. And I guess we're, maybe you were the latest iteration is that you count the habitable space was what so there was already finished space in the, in the, in the attic before this renovation began is that correct. Yeah, but it was one of the things we're struggling with is there are things that are even here. I sent a document kind of reviewing all the permits that people see that. And right one of those early permits did add. I think was 240 square feet of habitable space to the to the attic for a bathroom. I thought it's a very large bathroom. I'm surprised by that and then a later permit said there was no habitable space in the day and in the bathroom so there are quite a number of contradictions. If you go through those, those permits in sequence but I guess that's, I guess that's my view. Thank you. Thanks Michael. I think the definitions of these terms differed by who you're asking. The assessor's office provides a number for gross area, but they include decks, open porches, the garage, which we would not consider your guided by those particular definitions. But I'm trying to figure out how we interpret what's in, what's in the ordinance. Consistently the way we go out in the past. Understanding there's, I don't think we would typically do this. I think that it's higher approval. In this case, all additional habitable space in the attic. That habitable space that the habitable space for us was on the definitions, the applications. And the issue. But the habitable space added in the attic is not thinking relevant to the additional unit. I mean that that's a separate issue. Well, I guess to me it is because if we're including that, whatever the number is the 488 it's already in the attic, then adding just the additional amount to make the full attic. A new user. I have a question for Mary, this application though. Yes, typically when we're looking at historic issues of buildings. We're dealing with the street presence and oftentimes people would change windows and do things on the road and that's not considered contrary to the section. Sorry, sorry, my wrong about that. Certainly our practice has been to allow greater flexibility on secondary elevations. So rear decks rear forages dormers. Those have been seen more generously if they're not affecting. Hence the current to change the roof line in the back of the. Admittedly, I was not the project manager for this he Brian Morrison was the project manager. I have seen email exchanges relative to this, I believe that the slaker that's either being removed or in the process of being removed. When the code enforcement officer reached out to the apple. There is very long list of exchanges with all the staff members with each one of these this current application has not less than 30 exchanges in this review. So, despite the appearance that staff has not been engaged, we've been very engaged as this concatenation of permanent requests have come. And I think that's why we're here today because I was a project I am the project manager on this and I pushed the applicant to say. I have defined in your plans in the street unit. So you may apply under this bonus for your project will be died because you were over density allowance. So that's how we count today. Yeah, I have a question because this has come up a couple of times recently where we're trying to review one zoning permit but there's active work going on on other zoning permits and how have we done a typical process for that when they're so interrelated I find it very challenging to look at just this permit when there's ongoing work that's impacted by this permit. You know, I can't think of anything in the CDO that helps us with those decisions but it feels like these are really amendments to prior zoning permits rather than a separate permit when it's all related. It's all one set of renovations. Your question should be directed at the property owner on why we've had so many permit applications whether it was the intention to move in this direction, or it was the default just as the changes were occurring. I know that I was not included in the earlier complaints that came to Bill Ward and Scott Gustin. But Scott has assured me with those complaints his response was there is a permit for the work that's ongoing right now. That was the roof extension, the rear staircase or general work in the yard that there were permits issued individually for the work that was ongoing. At this point in this review, the expansion into the attic was intentional, and staff believed it was the clear intention to create a unit because a living space, a sleeping space, and a kitchen space were all illustrated. And the applicant was advised if you intend to go this way, the only way you can get another unit is by asking for the bonus provision because the site is maxed out under the density provisions right now. I think that's fair that I can redirect part of a question I think still what I would be curious to hear from you is like, at what point does staff give the direction that this is an amendment to a prior permit rather than a separate permit. I think it, I think the project evolved as the work was ongoing. If we deny this permit under this, this historic preservation provision. The, the rest of the permits are already open so it's still be basically this gabled roof, the bathroom slash storage area closing up the back would still be continuing work it just couldn't be a dwelling unit is that correct. They may continue the work that was approved and it was not appealed. I'm going to take Mary's advice and ask the applicant. If you could take us back what, because there are so many permits in such a short amount of time period, can you just give us a little bit of background on what happened in the process what changed in terms of what the vision will. Yeah, I'll be I'll be the first to acknowledge it wasn't probably the best plan from the beginning or did evolve. It's my first home and contrary to their statement I do care very much about it. This is everything I own. I know I look beautiful right now but I live there and I want to. And like Evan said, you know, the exterior changes, they've happened, and I intend to wrap them up in the spring, and it would be, you know, beneficial to the community to us to, you know, leverage this space that's going to be conditioned as it is. You know, the reason that I started was undoubtedly that I wanted a space that could be finished one day. And so with, you know, I've hired GVV architects and Mary has given me a lot of common input and help me go back and forth through all these permits and I hope the permits show how how much I do value pulling a permit for every little thing whether it's changing that litter. Yeah, switching from a tub to a shower so I haven't even you have any follow up on that. No, thank you. I guess just not sure it's a question but I can appreciate some of the frustration of this feeling like Greek, and I feel like you're acknowledging that a little bit like there was a long term vision of getting you something. And it puts us as the reviewer in a difficult position when I see it piecemeal. Yeah. And frankly, frustrates me because it ties our hands a little bit. Yeah, and I really appreciate that you're, you're living there on the street in the house that it's Michael indicated the progression to that street I think absolutely. It would be helpful for us and viewers. People will be transparent when they come in about their planning so we can understand and try to address these issues. Yeah, I want to be clear. I didn't plan or start this. I learned about the bonus didn't exist in 2021 I believe. So I learned about it last spring, not the two after it was available. You know, I dumped a lot of money into fitting conditioning the spaces I like to call it and improving the heating and electrical systems to conform to that but didn't have any intention of doing this probably for a decade and it took a while because you know I don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars to dump all at once. But a lot has changed also I want to say now that I have an architect advising money is there to finish this. So this is really the only thing that's holding up. So I do have one just kind of on the historic preservation so one of the things I think that was brought up is the, the replacement of the slate roof in the rear. And it seems, I know slate roots are expensive is, is there a reason that you chose to go with a metal roof on that back dormant portion instead of continuing. I know there's also right with historic preservation you don't want it to pretend to be the structure or try to add historic details that are not there but I'm just curious why you didn't consider going with slate initially. So that was it that that was almost a three months, three months long, like a permit process of Mary and I going back and forth with a bunch of other people. It was a combination of cost and structural and structural ended up deciding after I had grant from spit rock slate come doing assessment of the current roof and assessment of the structural capability. It seemed that it could not support slate. Okay, you're new. Yeah, yes. Yeah, so Mary had me have a whole. What's the name of it where I had the slate assessed essentially. So there's a pretty long process involved with that. It's not the most beautiful. I agree. And, you know, I disagree with your comments on my truck, but my truck there to fill it up with trash, as opposed to making a pile. Yeah, but I have very high hopes for the spring and for the summer when this is finished. Trust me, I have not enjoyed living there for the last two years. I want to make it an enjoyable spot. You know, I'm close if not friends with every all six of my tenants. We utilize the backyard. I like it shouldn't to agree with what Michael said about it. I've always wondered that. I guess the way that I think I'd say is, if we approve this it is conditioned also on doing all the other things. It's not just finishing that space, but really talking about meeting all the other people. Absolutely. Yeah, I have that and then we're sprinkling the entire building in June when the tenants are out. My laundry list is 100s of bullets. I have a question. In the plan and I believe the metal room. There was a picture there. I've already been done and I'm not sure why it's in support slate but it said in the plans that there's going to be a dormer on the north side I believe that. It's a shed dormer, but it's the metal roof is already there and everything is there and then to tear that apart and put a dormer there. I don't know just seems. I have the requirement and we wanted to keep the, you know, the number one priority was to keep the roof lines identical. So if I had to put a dormer in, you know, it's not that hard to make a small cut in standing scene. It's a different dormer like on the south side. It's a different dormer to shed very small. It's only to allow for. It's maybe a foot of headroom or something. On the south side is a regular the original. Yeah, I've seen it. That just seems. It's about a foot of head when he's looking for it. It's not ideal. I, and that the, if there is a unit put up there, those people will come through the back of that stairway. If they so choose there is an interior discussion. Okay, sorry. Yeah, that would be up to the contend. Okay. Since anything else on the board. I just have so I'm a little confused. And I mean, the, you're planning potentially to add another unit, but the density limit in this area. Or residential medium wouldn't allow you to build another unit. And so I'm just kind of curious what your thought process there. And if as an end goal, what's, are you just planning eventually like zoning would change or what? So this was my, my first choice that I thought was more practical was to build some sort of hybrid office up there. And I was thinking like a decade far out. This, it just feels bullish to me to spend so much money for storage when the opportunity presented itself. And that's what's delayed. You know, this was supposed to be finished well over a year ago. And that's what's deleted. Yeah, I didn't build it with the intention of a unit per se, but the intention of habitable space like an office or a work area of some sort. Yeah, with a bathroom. Yeah, so I live on the second unit right now. And that's plenty. So I was hoping that their unit could just be like a glorious living space, living room work area, whatever. Yeah. He did space. No, no more questions. That's great. He's, he's, yeah, he's just eating right now. Julian any questions. So with that, we're going to close public air.