 Welcome to the knuckleheads of Liberty about open borders I guess borders in general so what's the libertarian take on borders that nations have set up around them invisible lines on a map. Personally I think that we should make borders as open as possible but that said it sort of goes back to what Milton Friedman said too you can't really have a welfare state and open borders at the same time and you know I think you know Joe Biden is sort of proving that case for about a million people you know coming across wearing Biden and Kamala t-shirt. The main issue is it's a freedom issue I mean why what if if we trade I guess fundamentally what's the difference if I trade with somebody in China buy something from a Walmart buy something in an Amazon and it's coming from another place in the world and I'm exchanging with that person versus if that person shows up here and gets paid to you know can can a soup or you know bus tables in a restaurant in the end we're exchanging labor and goods with these people no matter where they're at so to me I don't see a problem with it as long as there's that's the that's the intent right is that people it's a voluntary exchange as long as it remains voluntary exchange I think we should be try to keep that border open as free as possible but once it becomes an involuntary exchange that's when everything goes off the rails and unfortunately we have too many people on the left who want to make it an involuntary exchange and that's what's causing all the problems so Leon well I never quite understand I never quite understand the libertarian argument and open borders I have a real real problem with it here okay I mean we have personal sovereignty okay me you Tim we all have personal sovereignty so I go back to my my sovereignty argument that I had but with Ellen Ellen go we have personal sovereignty now nobody could invade my sovereignty your sovereignty Tim or Jason without some kind of permission okay now my personal sovereignty also extends to my home or my car and the government cannot invade that the government cannot invade that without a warrant or criminal cannot invade that without risking his life as a matter of fact I think under the rules of self-defense I have the right to kill him if he tried to invade my personal sovereignty now we go one step further we have certainties that we create all our personal sovereignty is make up the sovereignty of the United States all our personal sovereignty makes up the sovereignty of our various states within the United States so yes we can move between the certainties of the states with no problem but when we get into the international borders we are things a little bit different because these are the collective the United States is the collective of all our personal certainties so if we do not allow people to invade our personal certainties without a warrant I think the rule of law should matter here and I think we libertarians or liberty-minded people believe in the rule of law so I don't know how we justify even if we were in a situation where there is not where the distortion that distortion of the of the wealthiest state if we could remove it but that's a total order to start with but if we could remove it how could we justify people going from one sovereignty to the other without our without our express permission I don't understand how that works unless Tim's gonna jump in I just wanted to rebut one item and that's that we say express permission I want there to be the express permission that's the issue I don't want it to be a situation where we're saying don't come and then they come I want it to be a situation where it says we're gonna make it is easy for people to come so long as you're not trying to rob us or you know try and get on the dole or something like that you know that's the problem of the dole is you know it's in a has some bad incentives attached to it so anyway so that's the so it's not about being a for law-breaking it's about literally having the laws to allow for a lot more migration that's all but we know fine we find but we know what's gonna happen if the borders are open right we know law-breaking is gonna go even though I will I will admit there are some people who genuinely want to cross our borders to look for a better life for themselves and their families I fully accept that but we know that there's a lot of criminal activity is gonna go when the borders are open so we have to have some mechanism by which we control the flow of people across our borders and I assume they will have some mechanism by which they control the flow into their country say from the United States going into Mexico American citizens going into Mexico or going into Canada they have some mechanism to control the flow because we know criminal conduct is gonna occur even though there are people many of them generally want to improve their lives which I applaud but I don't know if you can take the criminal conduct that comes with it well is there we know there's gonna be criminal conduct done by American citizens also don't we have to wait until the the citizens from the other country that are immigrating here to actually do something wrong first and are convicted well well under all well laws within our sovereignty laws their first act here is an illegal act they cross the border without permission okay so we are let me let me tie this it back to the Ukraine situation though if if for instance okay good example there are two breakaway regions in in in Ukraine that are that are highly supportive of Russia okay so what if these two breakaway regions which I'm probably sure they did ask the Russians to come in now would that be a problem now under our theory of open borders Russia should be able to walk in there as a diamond because they were invited in by the two breakaway regions is that a problem where do we draw this line the only difference between Russia walking across the Ukrainian border and what is happening on our southern on our southern borders the only difference you know what it is is that the Russians have guns they have lots of it so you're saying you're saying that these areas of Ukraine are Russian sanctuary zone yes the Dumbass region and I can't remember the second region yes they are sanctuary sanctuary cities of sanctuary I guess states I don't use the column but they are sanctuary something or Russians yes I'm saying don't don't don't let the federal government ask about the intentions of these hundred thousand guys with guns coming