 to the agenda, Sarah. No amendments to the agenda. Reviewing and approving the two thousand twenty one local emergency operations plan. Very exciting. I did look over. Everything looked okay to me except my name appeared a few too many times, but that's all right. Does anybody have any any questions or comments about that? No. Okay. Well, is somebody willing to make the motion that we approve it? I'll make a motion. The motion that we approve the twenty twenty one local emergency operation plan. I'll second. Steve moves and fell seconds. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Considering sending a notice of violation to the town junk ordinance for five seventy Vermont route twelve action possible. There are actually two places there on route twelve that are really bad, right? Well, I'm just the what the complaints I've been receiving are at five seventy route twelve that have to do with Bob Bauer's place. The board has sent him notices before and because the land is owned underneath where he lives is owned by down street. We also send them the letter and there usually is some action. So this is one we've sent notice to before. Because for the exact same reason the kind of the junk piles up in this in this case, the complaints I got. About people saying that they're going down route twelve and actually some vehicles are in the route twelve they're easing out right into the road. Oh my god. You have like bicyclists and you know a lot of different traffic going up and down the road is getting to be dangerous and it's more than just you know a health violation. But here we go, you know, we've got that junk ordinance. We never enforce it. You know, if we get if we get action with our letter, that's the good news. If we don't get action, then we've got to figure out what we're going to do. But what about what about that other place? Does anybody know anything about that? I mean, there are two that are just horrendous ones right down the road from the other one. I'm not sure what you're talking about. I mean, they're the same. I mean, there's these driveways that go up the hill with piles of stuff on both sides junk all over the place. But anyway, let's let's let's start with what we've got. We have we received complaint letters. I've received phone calls and an email. Yes, and the people asked not to be identified. It's public record, of course, but I don't see any reason to identify him right now. I mean, I've been by there. The question for me is, uh, is there a health violation anywhere there? Be nice. We could hand this off to the state of Vermont. Um, I, the good news is that considering that Down Street owns the property underneath there, there was a lot of instant action the last time several years ago when you sent this violation. So I mean, there's a there's definitely another factor at work. So all we have to do is send the notice of violation, at least that's the first step. I'm just going to send almost the exact same letter we sent last time saying the board met considered has received complaints about the violation of the junk ordinance. I sent him a copy of the junk ordinance and say why it is a violation of the junk ordinance and you guys give him a certain time period to clean it up. I think if you guys want to give him a time period, I think that would be a good idea. I'm going to send him a copy of the junk code that I think he got just to remove the junk and instead has become part of the job. He's got vehicles. He's got a back. Oh, he's got all kinds of crazy stuff. It's not like just taking a trash. There's a lot. You'd have to call Jamie Boldwick and see if he would be willing to come down. It's just it's a big deal. Sarah did. Sarah Steve here. Did we give him a timeframe on how to make progress? I think we did. We did give him a few weeks to make some progress or something. But you try to remember what year that was. I'd recommend we give him 30 or 45 or 60 days not to make progress, but to clean it up. It says. Yeah, the, when you look at, I'm just going through the ordinance and it seems that says upon receiving written notice that we can remove or screen from view within 30 days. So you could just, we just cite the ordinance right there and give him 30 days. Okay. I'll move that we send the ordinance as written. Is there a second? I'll second. Okay. That was Liz. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Moved and seconded. All those in favor of the motion, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Are there any opposed? Okay. Wait, hold on. I just have a quick question. I mean, is if this is a safety concern, like car accidents and stuff like that is 30 days too long for this? Like, is there some sort of emergency? Or is it not that? Is it more of an item? Have you driven by it? Liss? Have you, have you seen it? Have you gone down? I mean, I tried, yeah, I, I, I've driven by it, but I know, I'm not sure that I've like necessarily said, oh my God, of route 12 it's got to get a lot in the middle of route 12. It's just right in the middle of route 12 but it's certainly in the state right away. So the inside of a curve so it blocks the sight line as well. So my question is, I mean, you know, is 30 days are we risking something with taking that long because he probably will take that long and he may not do anything in 30 days. Well, may I say something? Yes. Yesterday, I emailed Bob to let him know that he was on the agenda and why. And when I came home last night, I saw that he was trying to move some of the vehicles. So I have high hopes for this. And, you know, it is the trans's problem. It's really not the town when it comes to the. Okay. All right. That's fine. I just wanted to be clear in case something tragic happened. And then it turned out we, you know, we're permanent now for some. It's been it's been bad for a long time, but it's gotten so consider. We're losing a cheater request. Any better? Yeah, but if you're driving, you're probably going to go in and out. Okay. Well, the problem is I have to be good. I have to put my phone up under the windshield, but then I can't. Anyway, it's okay. So it's a challenging situation. Let's put it that way. Okay. I've asked my driver to increase the pace 20 miles an hour so we can get better. It's all service. Um, so this downstream request is just a letter of support for a grant application. Correct. Peter, it's not downstream. It's a central Vermont solid waste management. Sorry, I got my, like central Vermont solid waste. Yes, I'm sorry. Um, so, so here's my thing about this. They've been trying to figure this out for a long time. They've got whatever it is, half or two thirds of the money that they need. And I think, I think it's a good project. Those, those solid waste collection days are a nightmare. I've been to a few of those that are just online. So you have to wait forever and it's a real pain. Yeah. And the stuff that the arc won't take, there's nobody else that will take it. So I, I think we should support them. I don't, I don't see how everybody else feels. I agree. So, uh, Sarah, if you would do a little edit job on that letter and prepare it, I will stop by inside it. Okay. Do we need a motion or no? I don't think so. Okay. Okay. You have it on the agenda. So we should. Is that what you're saying? I don't know. We got a motion. Okay, let's move. We support, write a letter of support for the, um, central Vermont solid waste management district for the, uh, building that they're going to build. Second. Okay. All in favor. Hi. Hi. Hi. You opposed? I mean, they've really been working hard to try and figure this out. So yeah, that's good. Now here's what everybody has really been looking forward to. Yes, we have a review of the town personnel policy for possible update. Part of select port 2021 goals action unlikely. So we did this to ourselves. Now we got to take our medicine. So we have two versions of the personnel policies. So the one we should be looking at is the one that Sarah just recently sent us, which for some reason my internet is going in and out on my iPad. So I can't bring it up. So I've got to rely on you guys to help work our way, uh, work our way through it. I have the old one, but not the, uh, I guess not the correct one. Yeah, the differences period that I accidentally tacked on the wrong signature page to the one that you guys revised in January of 2020. And then so doing cutouts, I just cut out a bunch of stuff, but the important thing that you guys did in, in January of 2020 is you updated section 24, which is, uh, parental and family leave those employee full-time by the town on January 1st will on that day receive three days of paid per personal leave per year. I don't know why that's on parental or pants, but family leave, it probably should just not be under that. So no, it's under personal leave, Sarah. It's again, these things are numbered differently between the two versions. Okay. So, so this in the, I'm sorry, uh, Devin, did that should have replaced the personal leave under section 23. Is that right? That's correct. Okay. So that's just cross out section 23, what you have now. And then below that, you'll see those employee full-time by the town will on that day receive three days of paid personal leave per year. Um, and then the other thing to renew is you wanted to, uh, in the version that you have, Peter doesn't necessarily outline the years of service and how on page eight, which is like, you know, the, your first through your fourth year, you get 10 to 80 hours, et cetera, et cetera, doesn't list, uh, per bi-weekly paycheck as the version should. Let's put it that way. But that has already been approved. It's just wrong. It's not in the version. When we made the updates, it just got tacked on to the wrong version. Okay. Okay. So those were already approved. Yep. So what else, what else have we got that we need to, uh, correct in this review? But the particular things you're concerned about, Dorinda and Sarah? I think Dorinda had some concerns. I have a few questions. Um, I have a few questions and, um, on a couple of different categories. The first one under hours of service and pay period. Um, are we, which, uh, where is it in the, uh, I think it's under section five in the version you have. Okay. Hold on. Let me get there. Okay. So we started out, but five is the one I, the one I have section five is conduct of employees. Okay. Well, then go to the next hours of service and pay periods. That's section six on mine. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So we'll get these numbers straightened out, but that's the section. Um, you start out talking about regular work hours. Should we be putting what these hours are as far as like, I guess we have like summer hours for the highway crew. Um, Sarah does have her hours posted on the door for the town hall. Should there be hours listed as to, um, in that section of what our basic hours are. I know there's exceptions to the rules all the time, but because you're asking all employees are expected to be in attendance during regular work hours, but yeah, we're not saying what those are. I don't know that we need that. I think it's a little bit of a cause for trouble. Okay. Okay. So what we're really talking about is the road crew and they have all kinds of reasons for irregular hours. Okay. Right. So you don't want to put it in. So can I ask the question? Is the summer hours, is that something that's going to be voted on every year? I don't think it's them. So do we say, I mean, what we could say, I'm sorry, go ahead and render. Well, I don't, I'm just trying to get something. So we understand when people are supposed to be working because further down in the section, when you talk about outside employment, you're saying that employees may not engage in outside activities during their normal working hours. So are we I should say they may not, they may not participate in outside activities during their working hours, not just their normal working hours. Well, anytime they're working for the town, they shouldn't be working for somebody else. Right. But let's take it one step at a time. I don't think it's a bad idea to say what the regular, regular hours are and then what the summer hours are. Right. And I'm not saying we have to say it's from six to five or something, but I think you should at least put in there that the expectation is from May 1st to whatever date you guys decided on. It's a four day work week or something like that. So there is something in there. So I just think it's something that, you know, I don't know. I'm just throwing it out there. Let's do this. Let's, let's establish, forget about the summer hours. Let's establish what the regular hours are the rest of the time. And what are those hours, six, 30? Yes. Can I say something to that? Yeah, I don't think you want to set, you know, that the hours are six to four thirty or six to two thirty. I just think you want to say that they will be, you know, expected to be to work and notify no more than half an hour or whatever it is after the starting time, but it'll be their hours will be those hours set by the select board. So, so when you guys change the hours to summer hours, that'll take care of it. I mean, it's, it's all, it's all in the minutes. It's all recorded what the hours are. So that, that, that, that gives you flexibility and takes care of all situations. I mean, well, see, that's, that's, that's kind of why I just assumed leave leave it out to tell you the truth. But I mean, say something like hours, regular hours should be determined by the select board, by the select board. There you go. So it's already says that. So, okay, then that's fine. I just didn't know if you wanted to put your new decision in there or not. Well, then I, then I think what we have to be careful, careful to do and, and, you know, vicar is going to help us with this, but when the, when the regular hours change from time to time, whatever the reason is, we need to make sure we get it in a minute. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's, it's so flex. I mean, there wasn't anything definite set by the select board as far as hours, because, you know, they said we could go to, I believe November 1st. Right. And, you know, if we started getting pounded with snow on October 1st, we can change it. Yeah. Right. So that's really is great. May I make a suggestion or not, even though, um, considering that part of the problem is considering that people get this personnel policy when they're hired by the town and, you know, rumors fly fast and furious. It might go, might be helpful if you put something like the highway department, the road foreman in consultation with the road commissioner and the road set in the select board may set summer hours, depending on the season, just put a line in there so that no one comes away saying we're guaranteed from this date to that date. It's still kind of just solidifies what you guys did at the last meeting. Does that work for you? No. Well, here's the problem I have is the summer hours is a different, is a separate issue. But the, but the hours, you know, rainy day, do the guys sometimes go home their time on a different day, because it's where they work different hours. So the minute you write down what the hours are, you're then saying they're made from time to time, be exceptions to this, well, they're going to be exceptions all the time. So I just, maybe what we should say is that the regular work week shall be 40 hours or whatever it is, I believe it's 40 hours, times and schedules to be determined by the select board in consultation with the road foreman and the road commissioner. Does that make sense? You basically have that in there already. You said that, you know, there, oh, I know, I know, I agree. So that's fine. I mean, if you don't want it, we can leave it like that. Okay. It's just a clarification. So we know, you know, what's going on? Well, I think, I think the key watchword here is, as we discussed the last time, is to the extent we can be sure we let the community know, like definitely when we go to summer hours, we should let the community know, you know, put it on front porch forum, whatever. You know, when we send the road crew home early, because we're expecting a big snowstorm, you know, I don't think we let them know that the road crew is going home at two o'clock in the afternoon, because they expect to come in at four o'clock the next morning. I mean, that's crazy, right? Right. Okay. Next item. The next question I have is under insurance and retirement benefits. Yep. What's the second number? Well, it could be 16 or 17. Okay. Hold on. I'm almost there. Eligibility for benefits? It's called insurance and retirement benefits. The town office, the modeling group insurance programs, da, da, da. Yep. Yep. Okay. Nowhere under this do we mention that we contribute to the HSAs? Should that be in there? Yes. Yes, I would say it should. Okay. Because we talk about, we talk about the way, the way the paying for the health insurance works, but we don't say anything about the HSA. Right. Yeah. Right. Under health insurance, we should, we, who was just as a subset of the health insurance piece. Right. That's, that's all I'm saying. Yeah. Is that a sentence saying, you know, an HSA contribution of so much will be made, you know. Right. How do we do that now, Durand? Do we do it twice a year, or do we do it once a year? Twice a year. Twice a year. Yep. Okay. So you do want that in there. Okay. Yeah, that'd be good. Yep. Okay. Under the same section, under long-term disability and life insurance, we've been, we've been that the $6.37 per month for the long-term disability for the employees per portion for years. Should that be like health insurance and that we do it as a percentage? I mean, our rates continue to go up every year, or how do, should we address this? Should we just leave that in there? I think our intent was that we would pay that. Well, the employee pays $6.37 a month according to the personnel policy, and that's what comes out of their check every month. So what's the actual, what's the actual cost? Currently, it varies according to the person's age and their wages. Right. You're paying anywhere from $25 to $35, $36 a month, I think. Yeah, I think we should increase that, but we gotta, you know, I don't think we can just increase it in the middle of the year. I think we should do that when we're... Right, but my question is, should this be in the personnel policy that it's listed as $6.37? No, it should be a percentage. Okay. And it should be a percentage. It should be a percentage of the cost for that employee. And I mean, an older person's gonna cost more, they should contribute more. But that's my recommendation. The $6.37 is ridiculous. That obviously was probably a percentage at one time, but it's now it's... So I just think that you're locking yourself into that. So if we change the personnel policy and then we change it, you'll have to make a change again down the road. So should we just eliminate it and put something that the employee will pay a percentage or something and then... Sure, why don't we say the employee will pay a percentage of the actual cost and that percentage will be determined by this slide. And we can do it at... We just put our review time. I mean, that's for the... We've got some older guys, they're gonna squawk when it goes from $6.37 to 20 bucks. That's what we're gonna do. Well, I don't think... For the purpose of the personnel policy, I think we should just say the amended personnel policy, the contribution is going to be a percentage of the actual cost and that percentage will be determined by the select board. Right. I think you need it generic like that. Yeah, I could. Okay. You got that, Sarah, right? I didn't write it down. Yeah, the employee will pay a percentage and that percentage will be determined by the select board. That's the best I can get of what... Is that what you meant, Peter? Yes. Okay. Should I say annually at budget time? That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. When do the... When do... Do we know when the rates change? No, probably not. Yeah, I think I get the... It's usually with the calendar year we get the new rates. Yeah. Do you guys... I would say the rates will be amended when we receive rate adjustment from the insurance company. Or just annually. Just do it annually. Yeah. We're just saying annually. Yeah. That's fine. Okay. Dorina, before you go from there, do you want to address the issue of dependence? Like we had an issue before, do you want to define dependence? And also, do you guys want to get rid of civil unions partner, civil union partners, since they don't really exist anymore? Don't exist anymore? There's no such thing as... I mean, I guess there's some holdovers left over. I'm not sure of anybody, but it's not that big. Okay. But what about the... Who is involved in a civil union? They didn't expect that person to be an eligible dependent. So why? I hear you. Do you want to define dependent by age, considering that health insurance can now, at least for the time being, a kid could be on a parent's health insurance until they're 26 years old. And I know that in the Sam's case, Dorinda gave Sam the boot, cruelly gave him the boot. Uh-oh. When he reached a certain age. So I don't know how you define dependence. I guess there would still be college kids you could keep on your insurance policy and write them off in your taxes. But is that good enough for you or do you want to put an age? Shouldn't we allow eligible dependents per federal regulations or whatever the right word is? Right. Because they do have to live within the household and meet all that criteria. Roles or regulation or whatever we say. Do you want to say like legal dependence or because you know, you just argue that anybody is a dependent until they're 25 or 26. But you know, are they... Are you still writing them off in your taxes? No, you're not counting them as a dependent on your taxes. I wouldn't put legal dependents. All right. Just trying to I'm trying to avoid problems for you guys down the road. Thank you. Oh, that's straight, Jen, Steve. What was that? Is that straight, Jen? No, otherwise I wouldn't be talking now. That was all I had, Dorinda. Okay. Great. Thank you. We moved down to the next one, which is my favorite. Safety approved footwear. I don't think we need to change this part, but I think we need to read it, understand what it is, and it does not include socks and other. That is true. It's the purchase of plenty of money into the windshield. You're all broken up, but that was already addressed in the updated version. It states boot only. Okay. So I have a question on that that came up today on that safety part. Okay. And that is you say boot sound only, but well, first of all, my question of these, when do they get the $200? Well, it says in here that they're eligible as of their higher date. They get their first pair and annually thereafter, based on their higher date, but I know certificates used to be handed out after July one and people were using them. But this is how the personnel policy reads, but there's been a couple of versions out there. So we've been letting a lot of things slide. I mean, I understand that there was a lot of other stuff like, I don't know, socks, all kinds of stuff. But the question today is, it came up that, would you want them to stay within the $200? But how about rubber boots? Because we're out there today, we're out there on Government Hill Road with Shane, and we're digging out the end of the culvert. And I happened to be the only one with knee-high rubber boots, and I didn't like that because I didn't like running a hand shovel. And he asked the question, and the question was that Shane asked the question, and I said, I don't know, I'll ask. Are they allowed to get rubber boots? Or are we going to give them rubber boots? I mean, they have to walk around in the mud and when they're changing culverts and stuff. How do you feel about a select board? Hey guys, this is Paul. Could I just chime in on that, Vic, for you? Sure. The only reason that stipulation was in there, guys, is because the insurance company requested that we put that in there based on the ANSI standard. But I do believe that those rubber boots, as long as they were steel toe, would still meet the required, you know, minimums for that. You'd have to call the insurance to check that out, but that's the exact reason why that particular, the way it's written, they asked us in particular to put that in there. So that just gives you some clarity as to why that's written like that. So my question is, does that mean everybody's going to get a pair of rubber boots and everybody's going to get a pair of leather boots? That's my question. Well, if you can't do it for 200 bucks a year, I can tell you that. I don't know. Well, do they make the choice of what one they need? It all depends on what they're doing. I wouldn't want to be driving a truck all day with rubber boots on. That sounds, in the summertime, that sounds godawful. Oh, I think it was stated that they would get boots, but they would stay at the town garage. They're not going to be, you know, it's not like there are other boots. They're going to be wearing them home. It's going to be used. It's kind of like a pair of chaps we buy them. They're going to use a chainsaw. What is the, what are the, what are those rubber, what are the rubber boots they're looking for cost? Do you have any idea of that? I don't mind. We're 20 bucks at Lenny's, but I don't know if they have any left. No, I'm thinking, you know, I mean, I don't know. No, I don't know how much they're going to cost. Not with steel toe, probably. Right. I don't mind, though, but you're still when they were 20 bucks. Yeah, I had a special run on them a year or two ago, a year ago, at Lenny's. Yeah. I also think if you're going to add something like that, and they're going to be left at the garage, you might want to put that under the safety equipment category, as opposed to under the footwear that we're paying for. We're just going to say that, Dorenda. I think you're absolutely right. Right. That's, and that's why I was asking for it. If it's going to be under that, isn't that rule, you know, you call it safety, but, and it says ASTM, but isn't that a VOSHA thing? I mean, you have to have a, you have to have a, you know, a crush-proof toe on any boot that you wear around construction anyways. You know, I'm going to say steel toe, but I think they do let the hard plastic ones through now. Yeah, it's all based on just the crush standard, Vic. They call it safety toe now, because a lot of them are composite and things like that. Yes, Paul. I was trying to think of the word composite. I didn't come to me. Yeah, no one, and again, I think this is just my opinion, because when we had written that, that was based on the insurances request when we were going to do the boot stipend. So it might just be worth checking with them before, you know, just to make sure those boots are eligible. I would dare say they are, because, you know, a lot of those boots are a lager-style rubber boot that would meet a minimum crush standard. So just, I would just call those guys up and ask them, but I wouldn't be surprised if they would pass. Now, did you ever have boots, did you have like hip boots or anything like that when you were No, no, I, you know, I would just wear my rubber hunting boots and they were not, you know, steel toe or composite toe by any means. But, but as you figured out today, and I had a set that I would leave right there, I did have at one time, they were the, like a maroon colored boot with a yellow steel toe. It's a popular logging boot in Maine, and those would pass. They don't offer much ankle support, but they do have the toe, you know, the safety toe. So I would just have them for me because I, you know, half of my footwear is rubber boots. But like you said today, I mean, in those guys' favor, you know, there's a lot of instances where they could really use them, you know, whether or not we provide them, I'm going to leave that up to you guys. But yeah, they could definitely use them. Here's what I would suggest, guys, just to move this along for dinnering. I would say, I would say we add to this boot thing that whatever the right word is, appropriate rubber boots can be included in this and then we probably have to adjust the amount of money. But I'm not ready tonight to know what the amount of money should be adjusted to. But I would think if you had a pair of rubber boots that you didn't wear all that much, they would last a long time. So, you know, maybe we don't have to adjust it that much. Yeah, Peter, right? All those little cross boots you're talking about with the steel toe, the logger boots, I think, correct me, but I think those are like 190 bucks. Yeah, they are not cheap. I mean, you probably got to deal on them back and there are deals out there. But I know when I bought them in the past, they did not see it. So, maybe if you did it on a buy annual or something like that, like Peter said, they will last a long time if you're only using them when you need them type of deal. I would suggest that we don't put that in the boot section and let the road people come to the select board with something, you know, and it does fall under safety equipment and let Victor come to the select board and say, you know, I mean, he doesn't come to us, actually he doesn't come to us when they have to buy vest and different items for safety equipment. Right. I mean, I think we're trying to nickel dime this thing. I mean, yeah. So what you're saying, it's probably better to ask for forgiveness than it is permission. Okay. I'm looking down at the safety equipment section. And it says safety equipment, footwear, c-section 20. So it bounces right back to, Yeah, except now it's 17. So can someone give me guidance about how you want me to put this into the, do you want me to mention the rubber boots in the new piece in the policy or not? I would not amend the policy at this point in time. We need to have them come to us with a recommendation of what they think they need. And some price information because I don't think we need to double the boot allowance so they get two pairs of boots every year. That feels like a lot to me. Yeah. But I agree. There's certainly some conditions where the leather boots aren't going to cut it. Yeah. So can we table the rubber boot discussion for tonight and move on? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's next? Next one is under how vacation and sick time, the limits on it. We need to define how we're going to get, let's see. We need to define how we can handle the limits. We put in the policy here that they can accrue up to so many hours a year and carry forward so many hours. Over the last couple of years we've let that slide for several different reasons. And I just don't know where it's becoming a liability on the books to have to carry over 200, 300 hours of vacation time. Gotcha. When we say we can only carry over 120 or something like that. So I think you need to decide how you want to handle this time. I mean, we don't want to cut the employee off. We want them to use their time. But if they don't have the ability to use their time, how do we handle this? Okay. The other way, just speaking from my experience to deal with this, and I don't really recommend it, but it does sort of work, is to say time in excess of that may be taken as extra compensation, extra pay. So I can use it up. They say truly they can't, they can't for some reason they can't take the time off, which to me seems crazy. I'm saying we'll pay you for up to so many days a year in addition to that under whatever it is tended 15 on Tuesdays that you're allowed to carry over. Well, again, it's an unbudgeted item. So if you're starting to pay this out, you're affecting your budget. Yep. And also while we're on this, we need to determine we can make it effective. You're going, we can't hear you. You know, this is a real snakebed, I can tell you. And the bottom line is, I think the first step is to enforce our existing personnel policy. And, you know, we can always at the discretion of the select board make the decision to violate our personnel policy for special circumstances. That's what we've been doing. I know we haven't, but I'm not aware, I'm not aware that the select board has been involved in that process. Either the treasurer or the bookkeeper or somebody's been making that decision. I don't remember that we've ever discussed that for particular. Well, I believe you guys are well aware that some people are unable to take their vacation and time. Well, are we talking about our town clerk? Yes. Right here. How did I know that? I think we give our beloved town clerk a year to use up for vacation. I don't know. But is that fair? I mean, and that's why I think this needs to be addressed, how we handle this. And I also think we need to clarify, do we use a physical year or a calendar year or how do we, because it just says they can carry forward, but carry forward from where this time, because we've had the problem in the past, like even with the highway crew, I think two years ago or when COVID first started, the guys were concerned that they couldn't use this up or there was something to do with it. It should be in our budget cycle year to carry over. Okay. Well, that answers the first cap. Now you've got the bigger half. My budget cycle, you mean fiscal year, correct? Yeah, fiscal year. Now as they say, no. You're in and out. Better. Guys, if you can't hear me and we're getting up, we're getting up close to the Vermont border at 91. So the sales service is going to get sketchy. I would, I'll go along with whatever you guys come up with. But I think basically what we have to do is say, okay, by some date, certain in the future, a year, a year from this July 1 or something, we're going to revert to our personnel policy guidelines, except for special circumstances to be considered by the select board or something like that. I mean, I don't know how else to handle it. We need to have a process for violating our procedure. We just shouldn't be just saying, oh, it's okay for Sarah to do it, but it's not okay for the road crew to do it or for who knows what. Well, we haven't been, I mean, we've let the road crew carry over beyond what it was as well, you know, in certain situations, so. But no, no, no, and we'll probably do that in the future. But I think what we have to say, we have to somehow draw a line in the sand for a date when we're going to start enforcing this and make it a more formal process of somebody needs to request to carry over additional time. That's all I'm saying. How many days are we talking about total? It can't be that many between, we only have like five full time employees, right? Maybe six. Five full time. So how many days are we talking about 23? You mean as to the carry over hours? Yeah, I don't have that information in front of me, but I do know that Sarah's in particular is she hasn't taken a day off in two years. Not true. I took, well, you took Thursday off to get your COVID shot. Here you cover for my COVID shot. Okay, so I stand corrected. I mean, it just is, you know, it's I think it's an issue and not that she's, I think she's deserving of the time off and but if she can't take it, how are we handling this? Is she not taking it because she thinks she can't take it? And I mean, the reality is that, you know, if we had to close the town offices for a week, it's not the end of the world or if Dave did part time hours or whatever. I think that that Sarah needs to find the time. It's not like it's 24 seven busy 365 days a year in the town. And so she has to just set that time aside. And people can wait. Right. Or Dave can go in or, right. Yeah, it's not a crime if we close it. It's just that, you know, it's a type of job where you're just constantly people are just constantly kind of need you. They need you for taxes. They need you for a lot. Yeah, right. I will, I will go away when, you know, when, when COVID lifts, I will go away. It's just, it's just very difficult. We've had two years of back to back crazy election years where 2019 and 20 were both crazy. So the things are kind of calming down a bit. But I think we're going to have a pretty hot summer. I think that that we're probably going to have a lot of board of civil authority meetings this summer. I expect and I have the feeling that, you know, there goes summer vacations. But Sarah, maybe we can think about like you having summer hours at the town clerks like closed on Mondays and Fridays and people do their business Tuesday Wednesday and Thursday so that you can have at least take some time off because your sanity matters. I agree. Thank you, Liz. That's a good, that's a good idea. And I am, I'm getting tired. So yeah, thank you very much. That's a great idea. Summer hours, summer hours for the town clerk starting in May, starting your Memorial Day, have June, July and August all summer hours. I like it. Wow. I love it. That'll take care of you time. Oh, the complaints will roll in, especially on Mondays. That's fine. We'll deal with them. Tell them to call me. No, no, no, no, maybe we'll just do Thursdays. We'll close on, but people need, they need to contact you on, on Mondays. So Thursdays. A long weekend. You need a long weekend, not a broken up Wednesday off, not that. Okay. This is now my new hero. You're going to take select board. Let's make our goal to get people in compliance over the next 12 months. How about that? Yeah. Okay. Sounds good. Should we do end to start budgeting this as an accrued liability? Well, I, I do think it does get accrued in our financial reports, our audit reports from the bookkeeper. But the problem is, is we don't kind of, you know how our money works. It's all sits in a pot. So it's not like it all comes out of the fund balance. So we can accrue it on paper, but that's really not how it comes out. Yeah. Sure. Okay. My think about vacation is, and I mean this in the most sincere way, it's important for everybody to take vacation. And I, I think this, I think this solution for Sarah that can work for her is great. But I hope you'll take some time when you really go away for a week too. So I'm going to go to Poland. I'm going to go to Poland. Is it? Cool. Yeah. When are you doing this? Let's keep moving. Okay. What else? What else, Tarenda? Let's see. I think, I think that answers the rest of them because we will, we'll update these other sections to say that we can carry over certain things, the six hours and all of that based on the budget year, the physical year. So I think we're okay. I think we've got through it. I've got one last question. What we need to do now is get this, get this document created and make sure we share it with everybody. So, yeah. Well, we ought to read it to make sure it says what we think it says. Yeah, that's what I was thinking that maybe we just need to get a clean copy, circulate it once again, and then should we actually put it on the agenda and vote on it as an update to the policy because there are some changes there. Yeah. Yep. So I think the other thing that would be really helpful, Sarah, when you, when you update this is if you can make it and I don't know what the, what the right terminology is, but make it so the changes are highlighted. Yep. So when we share it with the road crew, we can say, you know, the changes are all in parentheses or the changes are all blue or red or whatever because they get bogged down trying to go through the whole thing and it isn't really fruitful. Well, they're not the only one. Can I just can I just ask, do you, what about getting the road, this road crew? I hate to go back to the rubber boots, but do we give them this draft without the rubber boots or do we want them to chime in before we do a draft? How do you, how do you want to deal with that? Well, I say we go ahead and we'll, we'll do a separate thing on the rubber boots. I don't want the rubber boots to install themselves. All right. Thank you. I've got one more thing which kind of relates, but I don't think it should be in the personnel policy is, but I think it should be a policy of some sort as to a purchasing limit that people can spend on something without approval. That should not be in the personnel policy, but we should have a policy. That's what I'm saying. It should be a purchasing policy, but I think it's something you should consider as to who has, you know, who can spend up to how much on whatever it is they're purchasing. You know, I like, for instance, and it always sounds like I'm throwing the highway department under the bus, but I'm not here. It's they're buying a plow. I had to write a letter saying it was okay that, you know, to the company saying, yes, we authorized the plow, you know, can and we guarantee payment, but who authorized the purchase of the plow? So that's not really in my authority to spend five, six, whatever thousand dollars is that whose authority should this fall under? So I think there should be some guidelines. So I know how to handle it and or the accounting department knows how to handle it. Was it a budgeted item? No, it's not a budgeted item. Ah, okay. This is the plow for the new pickup truck. For the new truck, yes. But I just think other things, you know, like guardrails, I don't believe guardrails were a budgeted item. But yet we have an invoice in the payables for guardrails. And I don't think that was in the budget that I'm aware of. So I'm just, I just don't know how to handle things like this and who should be signing off on those amounts because they're significant. Yeah. Good question. Well, is Paul still on? The way the way we have done it in the past, we have purchased trucks is the slack order, you know, made the decision and agreed. And I'll be honest, I don't know why we didn't do this for the pickup truck. But like when we purchase big trucks, when we purchase braiders or whatever, it's always a recommendation that comes to the select board than the select board approves it. I guess what made the pickup truck a special thing was that our old pickup truck died. So we were in a tight spot to get it done. And of course, we had planned to purchase that truck this spring, but we never actually had a proposal come to the select board to do it. We just did it. And that was probably a mistake in hindsight. So, you know, and I would say when we were discussing the truck, the amount for the plow should have been, should have been included in that. And then you, you'd know what to do during it, right? Right. Or, you know, also, you know, whatever, whatever it takes, you know, lights, radios, you know, all this, all the stuff that we have to go through when we get it in truck. Right. And it's also in the case of, say, the plow, would we be beneficial to hold off waiting to spend that money in July after we start the new budget year? Or do you want it in this budget year? And so there's no guidance. I mean, are they actually trying to buy the plow right now? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Peter. Why? The plow, the plow, um, the plow can be either way you would like it. Dean has a plow down there. He doesn't have an issue with, uh, we talked to him today. He doesn't have an issue to waiting till after the first of July. You tell him whatever day you want, August, July, or June, he will do it for you. I mean, the point I'm making is, you know, we don't want to be putting the plow on in October, November. I understand that. That's exactly what you told me when we bought the truck. Right. And that's why we went through, uh, that's why we went ahead and checked on the plow because, um, uh, Shane wasn't sure that there might be a shortage. I think that was a valid point. But we did talk, all, all I'm trying to say, I'm not, I'm not upset about any of this, but just, just as a, as a, as a procedure, you know, come back to the select board and say, you know, they have plows available right now. We don't know. There may be a supply problem later. I'm concerned. We should probably buy the plow now and then we'll make the decision. But a purchase, a purchase of that level. And the question is, what's the right level? I don't know. But I would certainly say for a six or $7,000 plow, that's something that should be, uh, that should be approved. Peter. Yes. Um, when it comes to the, uh, highway department, we budget for many different things. And if you want to set an amount on here, I don't know what you'd set for an amount. But like they have to buy culverts, that's many thousands of dollars we buy gravel. We have somebody come in and do our screening for the stuff. I mean, Vic is going to be coming to us every week. We put those items in the budget, so Steve. Yeah. So you're talking about just unbudgeted items. Yes. Okay. Yeah. If it's, if it's in the budget, it's approved. Yes. Would be my answer. Let's turn to disagree. Do we want to think about it as actually like unbudgeted items that are capital items, like a plow, whereas like a culvert, you know, I'm not sure that we should have to wait two weeks for a select board meeting to approve a culvert because of some, you know, but I meant for an emergency. I meant for some emergency thing that is like a repair or something that wasn't budgeted. Because I'm just envisioning them going, oh, this is over $5,000 and now I've got to wait for the select board to approve it when it's something we would approve, but it was not in the budget. Here's so, you know, we have, we have a budget every year for maintenance of our vehicles, right? And sometimes if an engine blows up or there's some catastrophic failure, we overspend our budget. But we don't, we don't typically, the select board typically does not vote on all those items, even if it's a $30,000 engine. I mean, we have a, we have a, we have a budget and we maintain our vehicles and we hope it's within the budget and most of the time it is, but sometimes it isn't. And, you know, we're aware of it, we know it, but we got to get the truck fixed, you know? So I'm just saying, I'm just saying when it's an unbudgeted item, and, you know, if we had an item in the budget for a new pickup truck and a plow, which probably maybe we should have, I don't know. It was certainly in the capital plan, but it was not in the budget. But I don't think any of this should be, I mean, we're branching off the personnel policy and getting into a purchasing policy. And I think we need to table that for tonight for a discussion on another, on another night. I don't think we are in that bad a shape. But I, what happens, and this used to happen to me at work all the time is, is, you know, I would, I would tell somebody to go out and buy something. And the next thing, you know, I'd have to have the accounting department sending me nasty grams saying, where, where is this in the budget? Where do I get this money from, you know? I mean, I said the, then it's, let's, let's table this for further discussion on other time. I think Sarah, I have one more question. I did say that this should be a purchasing policy or something for, you know, not part of the personnel, but I do need to know, or the highway should know whether or not how to move forward with that plow, because again, the question becomes, what budget year do you guys want this to fall into? Well, I would, I would say just to deal with a particular plow. If there's not anticipated to be a shortage or delivery problem, I would like to purchase the plow after July 1st. I agree. That just makes sense to me. And probably, and probably ideal, when do our, when do our taxes start coming into Renda? We've got another payment due May 20th. Yeah, but I've been talking about, well, probably the first one will probably be in August. So I would say, oh, I don't know, $7,000 really doesn't make any difference, does it? No. I mean, the year it didn't make sense, but I mean, we'll have, we'll have, right? Peter. Yes. $5,500. Okay. Thank you. Penance. It is penance. I agree. Thank you. Okay. I think Sarah had one more item for the personnel policy. I don't, but I do want to ask, what do we do is about this plow? Do you say they can purchase it before July 1st or do they purchase it after July 1st? My preference would be, and I'm, you know, but whatever my preference would be to do it after July 1st, do it next year. Okay. We bought the truck this year. Let's buy the plow next year. If everybody agrees with that, they don't. And if all of a sudden, if all of a sudden the people selling the plows say, well, we're worried we might not have a plow for you, then come back to listen. We'll probably say go ahead and buy the damn thing now. But all things being equal, I think they're going to be plows available. I'll put my plow on up. So are we good on that for tonight? Yeah. I really am. I really am going to be going into a black hole here in a little while. So treasurer's report, Dorenda. Late this afternoon, we got the, for the school payment, which is going to be $280,000. So that's going to be our biggie coming up. And when does that do? We have 30 days after our last tax payment. So we, June 20th, we got to pay it by. No choice on that one. No, but then that's it. So then we'll know where we stand. But you're not, you're not projecting any cash flow problems for the year at? No. Okay. Out commissioners report, Victor. That was that. Is that better? That's better. As I see it, Peter, that freight liner had to go back to Charle Boys, much to our chagrin, because nobody would weld it. Nobody's, it's an aluminum tank and most of the guys around here won't touch it. We just can't win. What's that? We just can't win for losing, but we got to get the damn thing fixed. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Much to our chagrin, but with that said, I think, I think, you know, I mean, I thought we would have to buy a pickup, but I think also, don't we have to buy a new truck next year and trade that truck in? Maybe. I believe right here, yes. Well, okay. Well, make sure we get in the budget. We should look into real seriously getting extended warranty on them, I believe. No, Steve and I, Steve and I have talked about that in the past. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. You've answered the question about the plow. We're going to put it off until after July, maybe August. I had a question kind of for Steve, and we were wondering, that you had that $40,000 that was on for services? Yeah, specialized services. Yeah. Yeah. And then Shane would like to buy gravel. And that's not really what it was budgeted for or was it? Well, no, it wasn't budgeted for buying. Can we do that? Can we do that? Well, I think we can, but I think that we should be doing some ditching, which is what part of that was for or what that was for. We're going to be limited on able to spend that money. First of all, there's a lot of ditches that we need to do that just can't be done right now because it's just so wet. So it leaves a limited amount of time to do that. And I think we discussed this in a couple of select board meetings already, that if the rest of that money wasn't spent, that we'd try to buy as much gravel as we could. Could we like buy half of it, select board? You know, take half of that amount and then put the other half. I mean, are you saying to hire somebody to, Shane is saying he thinks he can do the ditching, but hire somebody to come in? I question whether that our crew can do all of the ditching. I think we've got enough ditching to do that we could hire some of that done. And that's what that money was in there for. I would say rather than saying half of it, I think we can buy some gravel with some of that money. But before that happens, I think we ought to see if we can't lock in a contractor to do some ditching and then we'll know what our costs are. Okay. And yeah, I have no problem with that. There was just, he was asking for direction and that's what we wanted. We want to do the correct thing. Wasn't that a special appropriation? The $40,000? It wasn't, Dorinda? No. No. The intent was to hire an outside contractor to do extra work, which the road crew couldn't get to. Right. Right. Okay. So that's why, you know, whether that was, I'm not sure whether, well, I can't remember whether it was just ditching or whether it was some of the mud season stuff or whatever it was, but to, you know, have a chunk of money to hire a subcontractor to come in and do some of that work. Whether it's the line item or the budget. Line item. Okay, thank you. Yeah. Can I just clarify? Was that two years in a row where we didn't use it the first year and we carried it over somehow to the next year? Oh, I don't know. This is the first year. That's the first year. And Steve was, what we're worried about when he was talking about buying ground ended by July 1st. Remember when we had that? Maybe I'm confused. Remember when we had the town meeting and the people got up and they complained about spending 40,000? Was that the year before last? No, but that was 2020. That was for this funding cycle. Okay. All right. Can I say something though? So the money doesn't, even if we don't spend it, it's not like it goes back into the budget. It just goes into the bottom line of the fund balance. Just to make you aware right now, I think the highway department is at 82% of their budget. So you need to look at, so they've got two months worth of expenses to carry through for the next, so if you're going to, that $40,000 really hasn't been touched, but if your expenses continue to grow, your unbudgeted expenses, let me word it that way, then that's going to be using part of that money, technically, unless you want to come in over budget. We don't want to come in over budget, but we're at 78%. No, that report I said when I sent it out did not include the $22,000 that is in the pay, the things that you're selling today. So you're selling today. That was my next question, so that's fine. Yeah, so that's, there's $22,000 worth of highway expenses in tonight's orders. So that's an 80%? 82%. 82%. Okay, so that's going to be close. Well, Dorinda's been helping me, and we're trying to figure that out. I mean, I figure that we have that 40, even though we spent $30,000 for the truck, I think we still, and there's a couple other line items that are over, but I'll check into it, but I was figuring that we would have that, we haven't spent any money on culverts, and that was 15. And so we have that 40, and we have that 15, and I think we have a little bit more, but I wouldn't want to spend over the 55. Right, I think you're going to be in good enough shape so that you can come in at the budget or under a little bit, but without going over. We've been trying to figure out today, but I'm not the master of a budget and I'm going to talk to Dorinda tomorrow. Hope is to be for at least the next month or so to be under budget projected. You're going to have roughly $112,000 left starting today. Well, I figured $100,000, so we're very close. So have we lost Peter? Oh, I'm here. Oh, okay. Okay. I'm here. I'm going to be here. I'm here. He's done. He's done. No. Peter's done. Peter's done. He's another state. I'm getting further away. But we're also, so I would like to, hey guys, I just, just because I'm afraid I'm going to lose you, I would like to move ahead and just quickly talk about our, our special meeting next week with the, with the fire department situation. I had a long Zoom meeting with, with Bill Fraser, or say, with the, with the Worcester, hoping is that we can figure out some kind of plan up next steps. You're hard to understand, Peter. I know we can't hear you. We'll reach out before I'm looking to really try and make a plan for, okay. Well, I'll say it and then I'll sign off. How are we doing? We can hear you now. Okay. All I'm saying is my goal for this meeting next week is to have a real plan of how we're going to move forward. Okay. So from these people, they're going to tell us, I have provisional, provisional cost numbers from, from Fraser for them to do the whole thing, which is a pretty good, pretty good guideline or starting point. I'm, I'm trying to get as much information as I can, and I'll try and get it to you all before the meeting as much as I can. Great. Great. Okay. So, so with that, I'm going to sign off and let, let Mary take care of the rest of the meeting unless there's anything urgent under correspondence. Nothing. Okay. Okay. Well, thank you all. I apologize for this. It was either not go to the meeting or do this. I could not go to the track. John wouldn't allow it. He said it was important for my mental health. Yeah. Phil, just, just quickly, any, any update on the broadband situation? I'm going to ask, I'm going to ask Sarah to put an item on the, on the agenda next week. Okay. Okay. Thank you everybody. Have a good evening. Good night. See you Peter. Bye. Bye bye. Thank you. There's only one other item, which is to move approval of the minutes as amended from the April 20th meeting. Does anyone want to make that motion? Someone will. Okay. Who moved? He moved. I seconded. Okay. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. I was opposed say no. The ayes have it. And is there any other business to come before the select board? And we have two people of our authorized, they want so far. You've got mine, correct? Yes. I got yours. And I have Phil's. I hadn't gotten yours Mary, unless you sent it since we came on. No, I sent mine around four. I don't know why it didn't come into Rinda. I'll send it again. I have not sent mine, Liz. I haven't looked at them. All right. No problem. As long as somebody sends me one. I only need three. I just want to clarify you guys, that was a double thing. The April 13th and April 20th select April 13th special meeting in the April 20th regular meeting minutes. Did you guys Phil seconded? That's for both. Okay. Good. Yes. So any other business come before the board? Hold on. I was Phil at one of those meetings. I think he missed one, didn't he? Oh, wait. Yeah, I was. Yeah, I think you did, Phil. You missed. Let me just go. The last. Hey, I was sick for one of those. I think you missed the last one, Phil. Okay. I'll retract one second. Somebody else. So I'll move it for both of them. And then we have enough to vote. Don't we, because in merry votes, we have enough to pass it. Yeah. You do. So Liz moved. Okay. So the new motion is still for both the 13th and the 20th minutes. Why don't we separate them? Because then Phil can vote on the, which one did you miss, Phil? The last one? The last one, I think. Yeah. So what if we vote them separately? Is that okay with those making them? Yeah, I don't care. All those favor of approving April 13th, 2021 minutes, indicate by saying aye. Aye. All right. Those opposed say no. The ayes have it. And Phil is staying in the second. The minutes approval of the minutes on April 20th. Aye. Oh, I moved it. Okay. Liz and then is there a second? All second. Okay. So you've heard the motion. All those in favor of approving the April 20th, 2021 minutes, indicate by saying aye. Aye. Aye. And those opposed? Any abstentions? I abstained. Okay. The ayes have it with one abstention. Any other business to come before the board? I just want to ask Liz, can you come down at some point and sign the local emergency operation plan or I need any other select board member because it's going to have to be Peter. And since he's the also the train, the guy with the certification, I need one more select board member. So anybody feels like coming down to the office to sign this? I'm going to be down there meeting Dorinda tomorrow morning at 8.30, anyway. Okay. I'll leave it right on the counter for you. All right. Thank you very much. Anything else? Nay. If not, I'll during the meeting and what does your clock say? Mine says 623. Yep. I agree. Great. Yay. Yay. Yeah. Thank you. Yay. Speak in the unending weekly meeting of the real estate. Absolutely. All right. Thank you. So for next next week, we'll have the special meeting. Can you put an executive session on same citation as last time, whatever we okay. Gotcha. Say no more. Say no more. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you. All right. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Steve. Bye, everybody. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.