 Welcome to the Dr. Gundry Podcast. You know, with everything going on in the world right now, it's not uncommon to feel anxious, restless, and depressed. The good news is there's actually hope. You can feel calmer, happier, and more well rested all by making simple changes to your day-to-day life. In fact, my guest today has written an entire book about it. On this episode of the Dr. Gundry Podcast, I'll talk to psychiatrist Jodi Skilikorn. Dr. Skilikorn recently released her new book Healing Depression Without Medication, a psychiatrist's guide to balance mind, body, and soul. In it, she presents her approach to tackling depression and other mental health issues the holistic way. With that said, Dr. Skilikorn, welcome to the program. Thank you. It's nice to be here. So let's address the elephant in the room right off the bat. The title of your book suggests that you think people shouldn't be on antidepressants or that you are anti-medication. Is that how you feel? Well, the title of the book suggests that there's other ways to treat depression besides just medication. And these are often overlooked, just like the elephant in the room and someone will show up in an office and complain of feeling sad or anxious. And many physicians, not all of course, will immediately will ignore the elephant and immediately start asking for a checklist of symptoms and fail to ask, you know, what's happening, what's going on in your life, what's looking for, you know, circumstances that might make those feelings perfectly normal. And too often, those people then get put on medications and pathologized as depressed or mentally ill and then told that they need to stay on these medications oftentimes for the rest of their life, all because sometimes they may just be going through a normal loss or a divorce or living in a toxic relationship or having a toxic job or, you know, eating horrible, you know, a standard American diet and nothing but McDonald's every day. And there's so many different reasons, but too often these don't get addressed and instead they're just given a one-size-fit-all pill and sign out the door. Yeah, you know, I think I'm actually in the same playbook as you. We've got to really kind of find the underlying cause of all this. Absolutely. For instance, I will take a heart patient, who's recently had a heart attack and a stent, and I'll keep them on a statin drug at that point with the idea that once I correct everything that got them to the point of having an heart attack and a stent, they're probably not going to need a statin drug, but I'm not anti-medication. I, you know, if you break your leg, I'll put a cast on it, but you're not going to wear a cast the rest of your life. Right, exactly. And I too will occasionally put people on meds, although I find for the most part, I don't need to because there are so many other options. But if necessary, I will. And lots of my patients are come to me on meds. They come to me on multiple meds. And so lots of times we work on decreasing them or reducing them. And many of those people never fully get off. And that's their choice. You know, ultimately it's up to them. It's what serves them. But I do feel it's important to give a full sort of risk and benefit analysis, right? And actually offer other alternatives, which is really what we're all supposed to do as physicians, regardless of the diagnosis. Yeah. Well, in your book, you talk about you've seen some, you know, troubling trends in your patients. One that feeling abnormal is the new normal. Can you, can you elaborate on that? Yeah. So currently one out of seven Americans, one out of four women are put on these medications. And again, too often, it's just because of very normal responses to very normal events. So right now, for example, lots of people are anxious. In fact, I just read, I think anxiety medications are up by about 38%. And right. But the reality is, is that's a normal response. And one of the best ways to manage anxiety during this time is to learn skills to manage the anxiety, because it's going to be part of our lives for some time, versus just numbing the symptoms, which doesn't really solve the problem or address, you know, the issues that are going on, which in this case might be, you know, kind of distorted ways of thinking or, you know, for each person is different, but different stories and feeling that the whole world's not safe, or feeling whatever it is, but addressing those specific issues rather than just quickly medicating it. Well, I think that's why alcohol sales are doing extremely well right now. Exactly. Right. And that actually, that's not solving the problem either is if it does eliminate the symptoms temporarily and may create a bigger problem down the road, down the road. So I think that's one of the reasons I really wanted you on the podcast right now is okay. And I agree with you. Anxiety is absolutely normal right now. And I see so many patients who have normal depression. They lost a spouse, they lost a loved one. They lost their job. Yeah. So help our viewers and listeners. What steps can somebody take, you know, proactively to deal with this under these circumstances? What do you tell them? You can take steps. You may not, there's not a lot of jobs available right now, but there actually are a lot of jobs that are created because of this as well, right? New services that are new ways of doing things, and sort of creatively coming up with, you know, a way to fit into the niche of what's going on right now, rather than just focusing on what's wrong, focusing on what you can do. So taking control over what you have control over. Secondly, just acknowledging the feelings are real, and they're valid. And you have a right to them. And and then what can you do? What can you do next? And so what you can do next are simple things like just breathing, for example. And I know someone's just lost their job. The last thing they want to hear is, Oh, just take a breath. I get it. However, what happens when we're breathing short shall a breath into the chest is we're sending a signal to the brain that there's a threat right here right now. There is a threat in your life. But right here right now, you're actually safe, right? None of those catastrophes have yet happened. Right. This is presuming the person has basic shelter and all of this stuff, right? Otherwise, that's a whole another set, then you need, you know, support and community services and all of that. Right. But but just starting with the breath is one simple way. So it's when we breathe short shall a breath into the chest, it sends a signal to the brain to that limbic system in the brain, the fight flight freeze and that threat detector, basically saying there's a yellow or orange alert right here right now. So we can just be sitting talking to each other. And yet our brains receiving a threat signal that there's a threat. Right. And so if we can start to breathe into the belly, then we can activate the vagal nerve and the vagus nerve winds up to the brain, the limbic system and says, Hey, right here right now, we're okay. And yes, there's things we have to worry about in the future. And there are things we need to plan for. But right here right now, we're safe. And that allows the brain then to to pause and step out of that fight flight freeze. And when we're in that fight fight freeze, what happens is the frontal lobes of the brain essentially get turned off 80% of the blood drains from the frontal lobes into the rest of the body in order to prepare to deal with this crisis, which is not helpful for finding a job, we're not going to find it by going into fight to flight. But if we can activate, if we can calm down the limbic system and reactivate the frontal lobes, we can then think more clearly, so that we can take the steps we need to take to find it, you know, to figure out what we're going to do next. But when we're in that limbic state, we can't, we can't think clearly, we're not able to really see the big picture and take those steps. Does that make sense? Well, it does to me. But okay, so our listener has two screaming kids at home. I know all about that. So tell me, you know, practically, okay, the kids are screaming, and I don't have a job. How am I going to find 30 seconds or a minute to take a deep breath? How do you do that? That's the most important time to take a deep breath. So you don't take it on your kids. I've, trust me, I have two kids that they're not screaming anymore, but they're bouncing basketballs, while I'm trying to talk to patients online, and they're coming in constantly and interrupting. And that's when you need to take a breath, right, to step out of that fight, nothing. You're not going to help your child if you go into fight flight freeze, now they're just going to be more activated, we influence each other. So if I'm angry, nervous, scared, now my child's going to be nervous, angry, and scared. And so they're going to, we're just going to feed off each other, and it's just going to be that much worse. So it's kind of the idea of put your own gas mask on first, right on the airplane, I have to stop and pause. And just it can, you know, even if it's just three deep breaths, I mean, isn't that what we teach? I use to teach that to my kids, right, just pause and take three deep breaths, you can always do that. There's always time for that. The another good tool in those moments is exercising, especially if you have two active screaming kids, right. And and if you're looking for a job right, exercise is such a great way to release anxiety and such a powerful way to for depression, especially because I think of part of depression is really stuck energy. It's everything's just stuck and hopeless. But when we move, we start to allow our bodies to free up some of that energy. And it just ended increases neural transmitters in the brain, it increases neuroplasticity in the brain. And we get that, that rush of just feeling good. And that can happen just walking around the block or taking the kids out in the backyard. And, you know, even if it's snowing. Yeah, or like I say, get a dog. Oh, dogs are perfect dogs, especially if you live in a place like Ohio, right? He's my dog is the only reason I get myself out in the winter. No, that's exactly right. Yeah, you know, I mean, I spent a great deal of my time in the Midwest, you're right. The only reason to go outside is because your dog wants to. Yeah, otherwise, just shelter and yeah. Yeah, exactly. So it's these simple steps that really can shift. In fact, there was a study that showed as far as exercise that even one hour a week, which translates to nine minutes a day, which means that even the woman with the two screaming children whose homeschooling can get fine nine minutes, even if it's with them running beside her or walking beside her or exploring the neighborhood beside her or whatever. But just nine minutes a day can decrease the risk of depression by 44%. All right, yeah. Yeah, I want to go back to something you just said and reminded me, we were talking off camera that you know, I trained in Ann Arbor, Michigan at the University of Michigan. One of my mentors was the head of pediatric surgery, Arnie Corrin. And he one of the most important lessons he ever taught me was there's there's going to be disasters in the operating room. And I was a children's heart surgeon, and he was a children's surgeon, and there's nothing worse than a disaster in a child. No, and disasters happen. And he said, when that happens, you you have to slow your breathing down, you have to take a deep breath. And you you may be crappin in your pants. But you can't let anyone else in the operating room know, because they'll play off of you. And if you're if they think you're stressed, everybody's adrenaline won't go up, their fight and flight will go up. No one will think. And it will be a disaster. And you're absolutely right. And right. So if you're, you know, the kids are screaming, blah, blah, blah. I think you're right. The way to take control that situation is help yourself first, put your mask on first. And his advice stayed with me my entire career. And he's absolutely right. Yeah, it's like the pilot of an airplane saying, we're gonna crash. Right. I mean, right, you're in danger. It's true. But going to that place is not going to help you. Yeah, or anyone else. Yeah, great advice. Okay, you also challenge the idea that mental health issues are a symptom of your genetic makeup or a neurochemical imbalance. You tell me more about that. Because I agree with you. Yeah, so there's been 50 years of research. And so far, they've been unable to prove that theory. And even the very founders of it, we're very skeptical of it and said this is just a piece of a much larger puzzle, right. But there's been lots of evidence to show that that's not the case. And in fact, as far as specific studies on neuro transmitters, right, so all of our medications are based on increasing levels on the idea that they're low. But the reality is, is if you look at studies, basically a quarter of the population, whether depressed or not depressed have low serotonin. And a quarter of the population, whether depressed or not depressed have high serotonin. And the rest of us are in the middle. So the reality is, we don't really know what normal is. And often, you know, if you have somebody that's on the higher end, and you give them these medications, it can be very dangerous. And so we're not really, we're not checking, we don't really have a means to do that, we're just assuming making this assumption. And so it can be a rather dangerous assumption. But more than that, it's a stigmatizing assumption, because the idea is that the brain is broken. And that's not what the literature shows. In fact, the brain and the other false idea is that the brain is static and not changing as if once broken forever broken. And again, that's not with the literature shows, our brains change with every thought with every action, they're constantly rewiring themselves. But we it appears to be static because most of us most of the time are sending the same message over and over. And so it keeps rewiring in the same way over and over. But if we change the message, change the behaviors, change how we were responding, we start to change the structure of the brain. And by doing that, we're also changing the neurochemistry, right? So it's not ever a fixed thing, it's constantly changing with based on what's going on our lives. So for more anxious, it is going to be disrupted. And constant but constantly, our body's always looking for balance. And so it's as it's disrupted, it's also trying to find a new homeostasis. And often the medications can disrupt that process. When you also talk about the placebo effect of using medication. Yeah, how often do you think that happens? Pretty much with all medications. Anytime any doctor is talking to their patient and offering it, there's the double placebo are really powerful social belief in the medications that medications fix everything. And our relationship with the patient and our telling them that and that relationship acts as a placebo as well. And people dismiss placebo as if it's, you know, just placebo. But the reality is it's powerful. It changes our brain. And if you take it changes our brain in the same way as the actual medication. So what we need to be doing is activating the placebo effect, whether we're giving medications or whether we're not giving medications, but really offering hope. And that's part of the problem with the that neurochemical, you know, the idea of neurochemical imbalance is that what we're really offering is really telling people is basically they're a victim of their biology. And then you would ask kind of backing up a little bit, you asked about the genetics. And again, right, there's no evidence to show there's there's predispositions for sure. But there's no evidence to show that there's any particular gene that predispose that that leads to depression. Again, it's mostly epigenetics, right? It's the influence of our genes and the environment together. In fact, there was just a study done just I just read it last week in the American Journal of Psychiatry and they actually looked at it was a study done in Sweden and they use the National Registry and they they looked at 666 siblings and half siblings. And they were all considered at risk in the sense that they had at least one parent that had depression. And so what they were trying to see is if this is more, you know, environmental or genetics. And what they found was is the kids that were actually ended up being adopted out of the household had much lower risk than the ones that stayed in the household, unless their adoptive parents had history of depression, or there was some other big trauma. And that's where most of research is pointing is that it's really comes down to chronic inflammation, just like every other disease, just like all this stuff, you know, you see and and the inflammation that results from that and the biggest links are with adverse childhood events. So early childhood traumas because they change our brain and they change the structure of the brain, they change the nervous system so that the world does feel unsafe and in the brain is more reactive to even neutral threats. So these early childhood, you know, traumas could be things from, you know, a parent having depression and not being emotionally connected, or it could be a divorce, or it could be a parent in jail, or it could be physical, sexual or emotional abuse. So all of these things change the chemistry and even 20 years later, studies show result in increased inflammation down the road. And so again, looking at that the work then really is to rewire the nervous system so that it's not as reactive. Let's go to rewiring the nervous system. You're you're obviously trying to get to the roots of depression. Okay, teach us how to rewire our nervous system. So again, we're coming back to the breath as one, right? So that's one simple way the breath and mindfulness, right? So becoming really aware of what's going on in this moment. So that could be the breath. And again, with the breath, just a couple, you know, interesting study was done using brain brain imaging. And what they found was that 20 minutes of focusing on the breath, so a mind, you know, a breath meditation for as little as six to eight weeks actually changes the structure and function of the brain. So that that that limbic system that fight flight free system is less reactive. And the connections in the brain are there's better connections in the brain. So it's less likely to get a hijacked. And so the breath is again, one really powerful one and again, exercise as a powerful one, it changes our brains as well. It changes the structure and function of the brain just as much as meditation does. Other things that can change it are especially getting into the body. So things like yoga, and, and chikung and Tai Chi and those kind of mind body forms of exercise that really allow us to start to understand the body more and be more in tune with it and not be disconnected or scared of it. So as you know, my area of interest is the gut microbiome and the gut brain connection. Yes. And so food. Yeah, so food is a huge one, right. And what's been shown with depression is those who eat a standard American diet. So the fatty process, sugary diets have a 50% greater risk of depression. And studies now have been done both adults and adolescents showing that even changing it just a little bit can really shift our mood in a really significant way. Yeah, I'm more and more impressed that there's so much information a normal gut microbiome provides the brain of really about the status of the outside world. And years ago when I got interested in lectins, there were fascinating studies of injecting rats with lectins in their perineum and perineum. And these rats would get so anxious and depressed that they wouldn't seek out food. And they just cower in their corner. And yeah, so even, you know, even just got dysbiosis and lectins and leaky gut will do a lot of this. Absolutely. Getting back to genetics for a minute, we measure the MTHFR mutations and all of our patients. Sometimes people call it the mother effort genes. And there's a lot out there on social media that anxiety and depression I'm going to blame on the fact that I have a mutation of one or more of my MTHFR genes. And I can't do anything about it. And that's why I'm depressed. And 50% of people have at least one of these mutations. Yeah, it's a huge number. It's a huge number. So the fact that so many people have these mutations. What do you tell somebody that says it comes in says, look, you know, this is why I'm depressed, I have this mutation. And so there. Well, one, if they really believe that, so if that's true, then starting them at lmethophole should start to help. But all the other, but part of it is we need to, if they can't if they're stay homozygous, and they can't sort of clear out the folic acid they're getting or or some of the that's in a lot of the process foods again. Right again, so these things like exercise and even saunas and ways to detox are going to help as well. But the point is we still have the power to change these things, right? Just the genetics itself isn't a life sentence. And it may play a role. But I have frankly never seen it play a full role ever, right? It's just a piece of the puzzle. And it can be an important piece. And I too look at it. But it's a piece. Great. But I have had people tell me that as well. Yeah, I get it all the time. And, you know, we do, we do follow their homocysteine levels. And I think homocysteines are a very useful way of seeing how many methyl groups we're providing to them. And there's wonderful different sources of methyl groups. And yeah, I do, we, we do try to maximize that. But I think you're right, it is, it is a piece of a puzzle. But I think your observation is great. If people think that this is the problem. Maybe we need a new way of thinking in addition. Yes, absolutely. Okay, let's come back full circle to the corona pandemic. People are going to go back out there. They're pulling back their restrictions. How do you, how do you think reentering life is going to affect people? Are you seeing that already? Well, it's just starting to get talked about here. So I guess I almost don't know because I was really intrigued by the split among my patients in terms of the pandemic. I actually found that lots of people with really severe anxiety actually did better. Because in a way it was like acknowledgement, like, we were all we're all anxious, right? It didn't no longer felt like a pathology no longer felt they some of them were like, wow, I'm not broken. Like we all have like, we all have a breaking point. We all have things that makes us anxious. And they actually, I'm not even seeing them, right? I used to see them frequently. And they're fine. They're really doing okay. Life is great. Yeah, right. And yeah, yeah. I mean, and you know, for people that like to stay at home too, it's an, you know, it's, it's so there's lots of benefits. And so some people are actually thriving in this period. And of course, other people aren't, and are incredibly anxious. And so I don't know how that will play out when with coming back into as things open up. But I would still say the same thing, which is we can only control what we can control. And again, to stay focused on the here and now, not all the things that might happen or could happen, or how long is this going to end? And all these the all these questions we don't have answers for, right? But to really stay focused on, okay, how can I keep myself safe now? And how can I keep others safe now? And that's doing all the basic things we are, we all hear dozens of times every day, you know, keeping our social distance, wearing masks, washing our hands and really, at some point, we just, that's all we can do. You know, you bring up a great point. And I've talked about this with other folks on the podcast. This is an opportunity to think about a new career choice, if you've ever, you know, thought about it. And I think your idea, there are people who clearly do much better from home in a non, you know, surrounded by lots of people. Is this something if, you know, you're one of those people to say, you know, I really do well working from home. And maybe I should consider something, some career in that. I mean, I think this pandemic has offered that, right, a different way of learning lots of things about ourselves, right? What's really important to us, what we do miss, what we don't miss. I know for myself, I'm, I'm really enjoying not being so busy, not driving here and there and always trying to find things to do for the kids. We're just kind of here and we go hiking. And that's really our only option. And we play games and we play tag football and we play board games and things we really haven't done in a long time, because, you know, we're always busy, going somewhere and doing things and going to play dates and doing all these things. So I think there are, I think we all have to look at our own lives and what, you know, appreciate what is beneficial for us and what maybe pieces we want to keep and what pieces we're going to be so grateful to be done with. Now, you, you share specific ways in your book that people can improve their mental health. And we've touched a lot of those. Are there any effective supplements to help people with depression? Yeah, so my favorite go to as a starting one simply because it's it's so relative safe is turmeric curcumin. It's been shown in studies to work as well as phyloxatine Prozac. Yeah. And so it's a powerful anti inflammatory used for all kinds of chronic diseases. And I find it highly effective. It's actually been shown to boost neurotransmitter levels. It's, you know, as long with the inflammation. So I like to start there because it's safe and because it's effective. And I always tell people again, amplifying the placebo effect, right, the research showing it works as well as the antidepressants. And so a good place to start. And I think safe for really anyone to try. Another one I love, especially for the more anxious kind of depression is theanine, healthy anine. So the amino acid and green tea. Again, incredibly safe been used for thousands of years. But it really has been shown in one study was shown to work as well as alprazolam. I don't think anyone who's actually taken alprazolam would agree with that. But for people that haven't taken it, it has a very soothing effect and also can help with sleep and concentration. So I love that one. And one I think is really important, especially for us here. For those of us in the middle of the country is omega threes. I think it's important for probably everyone. But I mean, the brain is primarily fat and all our neurons require fat. And if we don't have those omega threes, right, the brain just can't function as efficiently. And that's a huge there's lots of research showing that omega threes are highly associated with, for example, postpartum depression, but also suicidality and in particularly violent suicides. So those are sort of the three that are routinely recommend. The other one if someone's just struggling. And for the short term is magnesium magnesium has been shown to to quickly improve mood, although it doesn't last. So as soon as you stop taking the magnesium, the symptoms tend to come back. But it can be very effective in the short term to feel better and get a boost and start to then use you know, do these other skills and do these other tools to kind of boost your mood yourself. Yeah, that's all actually great advice. And that brings me to the next question. And how do you have a protocol to wean people off of antidepressants? I know I do. Talk, talk about okay, someone comes to you and, you know, on an antidepressant or an anti anxiety and says, I don't like this. Most people once you get them off of it, say, boy, I can my brain didn't work right. And I'm sure you've noticed that too. So how do you do? How do you do it in your practice? Yeah, just a comment on your last statement, about 75% are grateful that they got off even if they have a hard time getting off. So it's huge. As far as getting off. I mean, it's sort of case by case, obviously, but I go very slow, especially the people I see there. They've often been through withdrawal before. So we go incredibly slow. And at the same time that we're slowly decreasing, again, using mindfulness, using the breath, using things like EFT, emotional freedom technique, but tapping as ways to manage the anxiety that comes up, because there's so much fear, especially for people that have been on them for so long. And I think the fear plays as much role in the withdrawal symptoms as the actual medication, I think it's they amplify each other. And so I really work a lot with sort of calming the fears and giving them some control over the speed of the process. So they, they feel empowered in the process and know that it's really their, you know, their choice, but to keep sort of cheerleading, encouraging them to keep going. And then just listening to their bodies, right, their bodies are, as I don't really have a protocol, because it really is listening to, you know, if side effects come up, then we slow everything down. But if things are going well, you can go a little quicker. And if, if people are really struggling, sometimes I use Sammy, yeah, to as a temporary stop gap to help reduce the withdrawal symptoms, and I find that's actually quite effective. The other tool I love to use if I can convince people to do it is actually acupuncture actual puncture helps the withdrawal symptoms so much. There's a protocol the NADA protocol, which is used mostly on the coast. I don't know. Are you familiar with the NADA protocol? But it's, yeah, it's just five needles in the ear. And it's used primarily for street drugs. However, withdrawal is really the same whether it's prescribed or a street drug. And it's, it's, it's highly effective. And so I, I will do regular acupuncture on my patients or encourage them to go get a full acupuncture with an acupuncturist. But that's another really effective tool. So you mentioned Sammy, tell our listeners what that is, because I think it's a great supplement. Yeah, so Sammy is, it's sometimes we actually normally get in food, we eat it. But often when we're stressed, it gets depleted. But what I love about Sammy is that, unlike most antidepressants, it's the precursor to all the neural transmitters. So it allows the body to decide what it needs. You give it, right, we give it the precursor and then it, if it needs more serotonin, it can get more serotonin if it needs more neural print efforts. So it allows the body to provide what it needs rather than assuming again, that this is what you need. And I'm, you know, giving a medication that's going to force it in a direction that may not be the best fit for your body. And it's even a methyl donor as well. And it's a methyl donor as well. And yes, I do use it for anyone who comes and tells me that they have, yeah, with, with MTHFR genetic mutations. You know, something you said when we started, I do see a number of patients that we can get off of these, but there's a, there's a number of them that we get them down to a little tiny dose. And we can't go any farther. And, you know, we try and they go now, and then we add this little dose back. And you mentioned that, and I think that's, that's a good observation. There does seem to be a place for little tiny doses in some people. Yeah. And I think that's also when, when I see that, that I think a lot of it is fear based as well. But I know I had one guy, he was a pharmacist and it took three years. And I don't even, I couldn't even do the calculations he was doing at like how he was mindlessly going down. And I would just kind of left it to him. I'm like, okay, as long as we're moving in the right direction. And, you know, it took a long period of time, but he just smidged my smidge because he was so sensitive to it. And I do think he was truly sensitive and he was really scared. It was both. I think, yeah. And something you just mentioned before this, I often talk about how you find a good doctor. And I keep telling particularly women, you've got to keep looking for someone who's going to listen to you, who's actually going to believe what you're saying, and take you seriously. How do you recommend finding the right therapist? Because quite frankly, there are a number of psychiatrists that say here, you know, have a drug, that's what I do. Yeah. I mean, what you described as what I would say to for a therapist, right, you want someone that's listening to you, that's willing to believe your symptoms, even if other people don't, who's really who's compassionate and who you connect with. And, you know, that might not be who your best friend connects with, you know, so really finding someone you trust and to kind of trust that. And ideally, I, you know, to find someone who can teach some of these skills, right, the mindfulness and the breathing and some of the lifestyle changes and not just talk. Because I think we need to get out of our heads too. And some some therapy is, I mean, it has its place and it offers support. And sometimes that's what people need. But I think when there's bigger stuff going on, especially if there's traumas and things like that, I think some of the more mind body stuff is, is, is kind of is critical, really. Well, that's all we have time for today. You have been very useful, Dr. Skillicorn. Where can people find out more about your work, number one, and your book, of course? I, my website is jodeskillicorn.com. And then on Facebook, I have two sites, Dr. Jody Skillicorn and Mindful Psychiatry. Yeah, very good. And, you know, one other thing you mentioned, are there sites to find functional medicine psychiatrists, holistic psychiatrists, or any hope for that? Yeah, well, I'm actually on my website, I have a huge list of resources. Perfect. That's what I need. All right. All right. So thank you very much. And stay safe out there. Yeah, you too. All right. Thank you. All right, it's time for our audience question. Ashley M. from Instagram. My husband and I have COVID-19 and hoping you have some advice. We've read your book and love it. I have Crohn's disease and want to try your methods. Please let us know what we can do. Well, number one, I'm sorry, you've got COVID-19. I hope you are some of the people who do not have a lot of symptoms from this. We have to remember that the good news about this virus, if there is any, is that the vast majority of people will either have very limited symptoms, no symptoms. And by far the vast majority of people will not die from COVID-19. We always have to remember that. On the other hand, I do see a large number of people with Crohn's disease or who have had Crohn's disease. And quite frankly, my method works great for Crohn's. I don't want to brag, but it just does. One of the key things right now is to get your vitamin D levels up. People with Crohn's, in general, don't absorb vitamin D very well. Most people with Crohn's, I have to start them on 15,000, even 20,000 international units of D3 a day. And I need to get your vitamin D levels above 100 nanograms per milliliter. And it may take some effort to do that. The good news is the Cleveland Clinic Heart Lab and Quest now say that 150 nanograms per milliliter is normal. It is not toxic. Finally, labs are catching up. There's now three studies of humans that show the lower your vitamin D, the more severe COVID-19 is going to be, and the more deaths and the higher your vitamin D, the exact opposite. The less severe COVID-19 is and the less deaths. Three now monster human studies that prove how important it is to have a high vitamin D level now. So please try the book. Let me know. I'll be listening out from this is a this is a solvable problem. Now it's time for the review of the week. Following my episode on the coronavirus Korea on Apple podcast wrote, I am so grateful you share this info with us. I have posted it to my own social media in hopes that people will stop panicking and take your advice to your the best. Well, thanks a lot. That's why I keep doing these coronavirus podcasts. There's just a lot of bad information out there. There's a lot of disinformation. There's a lot of panic. And you know, we got to keep calm and carry on with good advice. And thank you for letting me know you pass this on. That's why I'm doing it. Okay, that's it for the Dr. Gundry podcast. We'll see you next week. Stay safe out there. Before you go. I just wanted to remind you that you can find the show on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcast because I'm Dr. Gundry and I'm always looking out for you.