 Good evening friends. To understand a topic, the rule of law, we thought why not call Mr. K. Sundrail, advocate Madurai Bar Association and who is also a special public prosecutor. The most fascinating part was during the COVID times also we tried to connect with Mr. Sundrail to share his knowledge but they say as things happen on their own way. It is after much when everything has returned to normalcy and we wish that it continues. We have been able to connect with him and he has agreed to share his knowledge with us. Being a Sunday, I will straight away request Mr. Sundrail to share his knowledge on the rule of law. We all know that rule of law and rule by law, there is a subtle difference but today's topic will be rule of law. Go to you Mr. Sundrail and we thank you for accepting our invite. Namaskar. Namaskar. Before beginning with, I sincerely thank yourself and Mr. Karananidhi and then I pose. I am honoured to you sir. Perfect. It is a great pleasure and privilege for me to be with you in this law day. I am most obliged to speak about, hello. You can continue, we are hearing you. Okay. The concept of the rule of law. Law is a regulation or code of discipline in the society. The rule of law means the supremacy of law. Law is supreme. It is high. We are below law. Whomsoever you may be, you are not above law. The concept rule of law, that means law is high. It governs, it commands, it corrects, it regulates and it drives the society was perceived long before. The common law was the foundation of rule of law. Later, various countries drafted various constitution and through various provisions they upheld the rule of law. In our country long before, thousands of years ago, the kings were the head of the regime and they were also implementing judicial activities. Their seat in the palace was the royal court and they passed tremendous judgments and upheld the rule of law. The rule of law or the supremacy of law or the majesty of law can be accepted only by disciplined hearts. Persons who are selfish, who are greed, who don't feel any brotherhood, who don't have patriotism, who don't obey the government and governance may not accept the rule of law. To accept the rule of law, you should be a fair and disciplined gentleman, otherwise you may not be able to perceive it. In Tirukura, the couplets, 1330 couplets, written by the great saint Poyard, he upholds the importance of fair rule of law. In his chapter, Seng Konmai, in Tamil. In Tamil, Seng Konmai means proper rule of law. He says, in Tamil, Kudipuram, Kaadu, Ombik, Kadidal, Vadu andru, Vendanthole. The next one, Koalain, Kodiyarai, Vendu, Ovidthal, Paingul, Kaleika, Tadunodane. The translation is very interesting to hear and digest. The first one says, governing the people, protecting them and ruling them and at the same time, when crimes are done by some persons and they are punished, it is not a scar on the face of the king, but it is the duty of the king. The next one says, when killers kill somebody in the society, they should be the eliminator. That means they should be executor. This is like removing the waste plants and enemy plants and showing the real plants. So long before it has been tell and appreciated by great saints that the bad should be punished, the good should be celebrated is the rule of law. Now in modern times, law is being enforced through different organs, executive, legislative and judicial. Executives, the bureaucrats and top officials, they should pass orders, implement their duties, according to proper law. Legislatures, the elected representatives in state level and in national level should understand the need of the people and pass proper laws. And in a democratic country like ours, the executives, attitudes, legislatures, work and parliamentarians passing laws have to be tested by judiciary. Judiciary is the bedrock of the constitution and the constitution empowers the third pillar of the constitution namely the judiciary to check the work of executive and legislature. There should not be any confusion between these three organs. One should not interfere with the other. One should not think that it is supreme and the other is inferior. In our country, since the judiciary is empowered with power to correct, modify, annul and accept any law passed by the legislature and parliament, it has done so far excellent service to the society. The one organ, when its step is questioned by judiciary, it should not think that it is defeated or its policy is overturned or it is inferior to the other and the other thinks that it is superior. It should not think like that. The ultimate aim of the constitution is the welfare of the country, welfare of the society and to uphold the rule of law. Likewise, the courts, which are the third important organ to test the veracity of the activities of executive and legislature, should not overdo or interfere with the original power and duty of the executive and legislature, which is amenable and acceptable and approved in the constitutional arguments. So, there should be a harmony between executive, legislature and judiciary so that the rule of law will be excellent and beneficial to the society. Even a king is not above law, he is below law. In olden days, these concept was well adhered and accepted by eminent kings. Manuneri Chola, a king of Chola kingdom, C.P., Chakravarty, Pandiyam, Nedinjaliyam and Shenbhagha Pandiyam were very good examples for upholding the rule of law, which is standing till today to be topped and perceived by so many persons in letter and state. Manuneri Chola had an alarming grievance bell at the entrance of his palace. His son, while he was riding the car, festival car driven by horses, came over the calf of the cow in time. The aggrieved mother cow came and pulled the sting of the alarm bell and the king attended came to know the episode. In turn, he overran his son by his own cart and upheld the rules. Likewise, C.P. Chakravarty, when a bird was shot by an arrow, he gave equal weight of flesh in his thigh and rectified the arrow. Pandiyam, Nedinjaliyam's story is still alive. It is a sterling case of rule of law not followed and what had happened. Karnagi was a daughter of a rich businessman in Pumbukari area on the bank of Kaveri. Karnagi's husband, Kovalan, along with his wife, came to Pandia Kingdom near Madurai and he was about to sell an antlet. Already, when he arrived in Madurai, the queen's antlet was missing at that time. Unfortunately, Karnagi's husband, Kovalan, came with one antlet and he was about to sell. He was taking steps to sell it. The people who were responsible for the missing of the antlet, they planned and framed Kovalan and it was reported to the king that man is having an antlet similar to the antlet that was missing by our queen. In fact, the diamond inside the queen's antlet was less costly and the diamond inside the antlet bracelet of Karnagi was very costly because she was a daughter of a rich businessman. Without making proper enquiry and without following due procedures of enquiry, unfortunately, Kovalan was executed. When the matter reached over Karnagi, he came with another antlet which was in her possession and rushed to the courtyard of Pandia Kingdom. They retrieved a list of women with tears in her ears, came and phased the Pandia king face to face. She commanded and questioned about the verdict of execution of her husband. Then, after questioning him and arguing that he broke the antlet of her own which was in her hand, the diamonds which were more costly than the diamond of antlet owned by the queen, broke and one of the diamonds hit the nose of the king. What the king did you know? I am not a king, I am the thief and he laid down his life on the best traditions of our kingdom in our country. Likewise, so many kings have upheld the rule of law and even now they stand a testament to it. Another interesting thing happened in Madurai itself. One, Shenbagapandian was the king. One day when he was talking with his wife intimately, a doubt arose in his mind. Whether ladies had is naturally having any smell or scent or it is made up. He put this question to his ministers and other officials and the price was announced to the general public to clear the doubt of the great king Shenbagapandian. The poor poet named Dharumi, he went to Ishwara temple and prayed the Lord to help at that time. Lord Ishwara came as an incarnation of himself as a rich poet and he gave a song, a poem to this poor poet to go and get the prize. When the poem came to the courtyard before the great poet Nakheera for approval, he said, words are perfect but the subject is not correct. When this was informed to the god poet, he got angry, took this poor poet and rashly came to the courtyard of Pandya, Shenbagapandian. There was a quarrel between official poet Nakheera who was more or less an advocate general there and the incarnation poet of Lord Shiva they fought with the words. What the rich poet said was, ladies have natural flavor and scent in their hands but the official poet said no even for Mata Parvati it is not so as they use cosmetics since etc their hair is smelling otherwise not. Then to show who he is, the rich poet opened the third eye in his forehead and showed Nakheera the official poet that who has come as a poet, it was Lord Ishwara as he was having the third eye in his forehead. What did he do? He did not care that the man on the opposite side was Lord Ishwara himself. He did not compromise. He fought against him in length and breadth. Both exchanged hard words and at last Ishwara got angry and burned Nakheera the official poet into ashes. Later the king called, cried and rolled. Then Lord Ishwara appeared before him and made Nakheera the official poet to come in life. Nowadays do you think that such a rule of law is exhibited inside the law courts such as the behavior of prosecutors even though Nakheera fought and upheld the rule of law, later he said requested the king to give away the price to the poor man. So inside the court hall he was ready to give his life to uphold the rule of law but at the same time as a kind man he requested the king to give the price money also. Very recently we came to know that public prosecutors, investigating agencies and the court officers came together, made a mockery of justice as if number of witnesses were examined in a short time. All evidence was read over, exhibits were perused and a judgment was passed in favor of the accused persons. Very rare in our country, a single judge of our way, Suomoto took action and when it was questioned before the apex court, apex court lauded the activity of the single judge. Then the chief poet and the chief pleader of the king was ready to face God Almighty and to give away his life. Why not our law officers? I leave it to you. Rule of law concept is well followed everywhere. We people should educate our young ones to know the importance of law, parents, teachers, great leaders, politicians, lawyers and judges have their own role to give. There is a tendency in the mind of our people to overtake law, to compromise with law, to adjust with law. They give importance to themselves, their wishes and they never fear for rule of law. When we read newspapers daily, you see how many misconducts, offenses, crimes, brutal activities, disobedience to law, breaking the concept of majesty of law, devouting the supremacy of law. What is the reason? There are laws enacted by legislatures and parliaments. There are bureaucrats and government servants passing orders. There are policemen and military men to work towards implementation of law. There are law courts to give judgments. Then why there is anarchy? Why lawlessness is ruling? Why inhuman activities are happening? Why children are spoiled? Why girls are ravished? Why nobody is able to go lonely during nights? Why? Because the system is not working properly. Only if the system is working properly, we can realize the rule of law as supreme. With great respect to bureaucrats, avishyas, legislatures, parliamentarians, leaders, persons who are concerned with law courts, I complete that. There is a total failure of rule of law nowadays. To uphold it, everyone in the society, everyone working in the organ should work for it, feel for it and there should not be any compromise. Unless and otherwise, in every angle we correct ourselves, we may not be able to establish the rule of law as supreme. It will be supreme only in the paper. When a litigant comes with a litigation, he doesn't want to get an order as per the rule of law. When a lawyer conducts a case, he does not want to get a judgment according to justice. When a parliamentarium or a legislature passes an order or governs the country or the state, they did not think that this would work according to law. There lies the problem. Law is perfect in black and white, but the persons who are connected with litigation, law, law courts, law makers and other things are not proper. Unless and otherwise, everybody in the society feels that there should be rule of law, we should feel the majesty of law, there should be harmony in the society. There should be equality, there should be equal protection of laws. Otherwise, we may not enjoy the supremacy of rule of law. That is why I humbly request you all that this society should be educated to feel the supremacy of law, accept the majesty of law. And we should not try to sideline. Nowadays, you can see that there is no opportunity for young ones, students and general public to hear good things. There is no opportunity for us. We are tight lipped in our speedy world and speedy activities. We are money-minded, job-oriented, enjoyment-oriented. We have lost the real meaning of life and we are running towards something which is not real. Unless and otherwise, we live a real life with a disciplined life, following moral codes, treating one another equally and obeying the government and governance. We may not be able to attain the rule of law in its existence. Parents, teachers, everybody has got a role to bring them up. There are no good media assets to treat you properly. Writers also are reduced, mere enjoyment, passing of time, following other traditions, marketing our own good heritage and principles had become an order of the day. And that is one of the big reasons for tilting the rule of law. Let us go to the myth, the Puranas. In Ramayana, what was treated, what was listened, sons should hear the words of father. Young brothers should respect the elder brothers. Wife should obey the husband and to follow him. One should not like the property of another. Ramana, a great king of another country, was informed about Sita Devi and he came. This is a violation of moral code. A violation of law, one should not like the property of another. There were no courts, there were no international courts or there were no big persons common to both of them. But the royal court of Ramana advised him, reprimanded him. But he did not obey the rule of law and so a great war happened and he lost his life. Likewise, Maha Bharatha, two brothers, they had sons. They did not divide the property equally due to ill advice. One brother's son wanted to cheat another and without a due process of law and through cunning means by a game of dice, one won the property of another. It is a futile to rule of law. What happened when great lords were trying to compromise, to uphold the law and to give a good decision that was thwarted by the evil brother and the Guru Chaitra war happened and they lost their life. So rule of law is an excellent concept. If there is a rule of law perfect in any country or any institution or any school or college or in a house that will be peaceful, pleasant. Everybody will have their own share. Everybody will have their rights executed. Everybody can peacefully do their duty. So we cannot define rule of law simply. It is a great one like Indian Osha by every bit or by every drop we can enjoy the goodness. Rule of law was actually made by man in the course of thousands of years. That is man made law in legislative council, in assembly and in parliament. Laws are made after high discussion. Orders are passed by bureaucrats and courts are testing it whether it is correct or not or whether it is within the constitution or not. But even before that the nature or the God made certain rules and laws which are called natural laws, laws of nature. And that is perfect. It is we who are disturbing that natural laws. You see in the universe various planets are moving in their perfect orbit. One does not come into contact with the other. Even in solar eclipse or lunar eclipse, they pass by. They do not come into contact. Plants are there, sea is there, land is there, flora and fauna are there. They are regularized by the law of God. The rule of law is perfect among them they obey. You see when plants are more and plenty and they are eaten by herbivorous, there are carnivorous to eat the herbivorous animals and to control and save the plants. Likewise when the carnivorous is very forceful and dangerous, human beings are there and they eliminate it if it is ferocious or disturbing the other one. The rule of law exposed by God Almighty or nature in whatever name you call they act perfectly within their sphere. It is we who go and interfere with them. We occupy the forest. We vanish the mountain for quarry. In environmental hazards, it is the man who destroys everything. But law does not stop with regulating the man and mankind. The environment law, the forest law and the law relating to water bodies and the law relating to geology. Even non-living things like mountain stone are regularized by law. So rule of law is not required for human beings alone. It is required for the whole universe. It is the breath of universe I can say. The rule of law is a great concept by which one and all can live happily forever. The judges who don the mantle of the law course very important to save this rule of law. Law officers and judges should feel that they are the first servants of judiciary. They should not develop personal policy or notion. They are bound by law. They are bound by treaties which are printed in black and white. They should see that it is implemented properly. Likewise, litigants should fear for court and law. They should not think that law courts are markets and they can purchase some order which may be in favor of them. Lawyers play an important role in showing the rule of law as supreme to the society. Lawyers should do their role as lawyers and stop with them. They should not criticize or comment the court and its function. They don't have any right to confuse the litigants and to criticize the supremacy of law. If they do so, they are blaming their own parents. Likewise, citizens should have a tendency to obey law courts amenable to law and they should feel proud about the supremacy and majesty of law. Otherwise, only lawlessness will prevail. The current order will be a zero. In a famous girl ravishing a few accused were convicted for death. They played all gimmicks and postponed the execution of their heads. At last, a day came and the apex court confirmed the death sentence. A hand man flew from Mumbai, reached Tehran jail at Delhi in the presence of a magistrate, in the presence of doctors. And before the very nose of relatives, the hard goers were executed, were killed by the hanged. The hanged were not able to open their killing. The murder as per order of the court is the clear execution of rule of law. Law is supreme, whomsoever you may be. That is why Thiruvalluvar the great poet said, this is not a scar, this is the duty of the state. Nowadays, I see law colleges are plenty in our country. Every Taluk has got a law college. And it is a great pride and happiness that more people are studying law, especially girls have mushrooms to come and study law. This is a very good symbol for our country. When more lawyers are there, then they can realize the importance of law. They can tell others, they can lead the litigant people and ultimately justice will prevail. In our constitution, from the beginning till the end, citizenship, fundamental rights, duties, how legislatures should form, what is the duty of parliament, how high courts are formed, how supreme court should work. Likewise, every aspect is taken. What is the policy of the government? Everything is there. So, judiciary is the bedrock of this constitution and it should see that there is a governance within the concept of our constitution. So, things are going on which is approved by even we have to respect international law is adumbrated in our constitution. Now, let us pitiably see what is happening in the international arena. This is an united nation. Number of nations are there. The world is in our pocket now. The gadgets and electronic media have reduced the entire big world in our pocket. United nation is there. So many conventions, agreements, governance are there. Big powers are there as security council is international law is perfect. Does the rule of international law is okay now? With great, great respect to the superpowers, I humbly submit that it is not so. See the war between Ukraine and Russia. It went on for months. So many students, employees and migrants from various other countries were there inside the Ukraine. Nobody was scared. Bombing went on. We were not able to digest the scenes we viewed in the television. To such an extent it went on. Nobody was there to control it. Is the united nation sleeping? Are the covenants are invalid? Should not the superpower control it? Is the rule of law the international law is poo pooed in here? We are not able to answer. Likewise, let us take the war between Israel and Palestinians with regard to Gaza Strip. The war between one group and one country. Children, sick men, women were killed by bombs. So many thousands of people were evacuated. There was total failure of rule of international law in that area. Until date, there is no best solution for it. Some giving up of certain prisoners in exchange of other persons who are withheld is going on now. But there is no good woman there. So, whether it is a house, or street, or village, or town, or state, or country, or various countries and world, unless and otherwise, some discipline is followed. Some court conduct is felt. Some rules and regulations are imposed and followed properly if mankind cannot live properly. Coming to various laws to regulate, organize and correct family people. Family laws are there. Property laws are there to regulate the purchase and sale of properties, possession of properties. Likewise, constitutional provisions are there to check the differences and disputes between one government and another government. One state and another state. Central and state, everything is there. Laws are codified. One area is given to states. Another area is held by central government. Some other area is left as common. So, law makers are very intelligent. They have thought for several years and drafted the law. Very recently, in certain states, the elected state executives have passed some bills in their assembly. As a regular course, as adumbrated in our constitution, especially Article 300, they send it to Goober Natorial heads appointed by central government. They withhold it for a long time. They do not say either yes or no. And the state is not able to answer for the people or to do business inside the legislature. Which has to be cordially solved between the state head, a part of central government and the state head who are elected representatives should have been solved across the table within seconds. But the matter has reached the prestigious entry of the apex court. And that has passed certain comments that these matters should not come to us. You cannot sleep over your duties. Please see to it. So, what the politicians should do is, politics is a way to serve people. It is not a brand of business company or firm to do business. The rule of law is supreme, either for X party or for Y party or for Z party. All the political parties, they propagand contest the elections to catch the power. I mean to catch the opportunity to serve the people. It is not a business and you have taken charge of the company. It is a service ground, you are allowed to serve. So, there should not be any conflict between ruling parties and opposite parties. If one party is in hold of central government and various other parties are holding various states, then there should be a brotherhood between all the political parties. You are dignitaries of the government. You are servants of the general population. One should not have enmity with another. One is given an opportunity to serve the people and others should cooperate. Whenever a political party comes and rules the opposite party, think of them as their enemies and they are not allowed to work inside the parliament or legislative. This is burying the rule of law under the ground. By doing service, in the next time you can win, come and occupy the same position. Parliament is a temple of democracy. More than 500 MPs are elected. In every state more than 200 MLAs are elected. When we go through the newspapers, we find atrocities, lawlessness, disorder inside the great institution. And when there is a conflict of interest in a state, when one state is against the central rule, then a hard man is appointed as a governor and he is not cooperating. He makes a mess of passing the bills. This is not proper. All political parties who are the servants of this government, who are the persons below rule of law, below law, servants of law should see that things happen properly. An opportunity is given to them for five years to work for the society, to obey law, to be below law. When you are below law and obey law and feel the supremacy of law, you will feel happiness. That is the richness. That is gaining power. When a lawyer enters inside the court hall, he may be 60 years old. A newly recruited girl at the age of 25 will be a magistrate or munsif. When once the senior lawyer enters inside the court hall, he should bow before the bench. He should not feel that he is bowing before a girl aged 25. He is bowing before the honorable bench. He is respecting the rule of law. He is obeying the books which are tagged there. Likewise, when the boy or girl who are at the age of 25 and senior lawyers come and pay their respects, the judicial officers should not think that he is supreme. The respect is for the bench, for the book, for the treaties, not for him. When once he is respected, he should develop fear. Such a respect is given to me. I should work fairly. I should work judiciously. I should prove that I am perfect. Such a tendency should be developed. Likewise, when parliamentarians and legislatures of different parties meet together inside the temple of democracy, they should work together. They can fight for good cause and not fight for notions there. Ultimately, you are working against the voters, against the interest of the general public and ultimately against the very nation. When a responsible person like legislature, parliamentarian, lawyer, judges and great leaders, they do not work properly, act properly within the corners of law and they do wrong things. Then they are not only acting against themselves, against others and their activities are determined to the very nation itself. You should feel that you are part of the nation and it is your bound and duty to obey law. Lawyers, in those days, they were the freedom fighters. They led the nation. Even freedom fighters, lawyers were more in number than doctors, farmers or businessmen. The struggle by our great men to get freedom should be shown as seeds in the young minds of the people. In our constitution, among duties, it is enshrined. So it is the law that we should feel the importance of freedom struggle. Then only we will respect the country. We will develop patriotism. We will obey the law. Otherwise, we cannot claim the pride of rule of law. Our country is one which was robbed by so many foreign invaders because the location of the country is like that. On three sides, there was sea and on one side, there was a mountain and on the other side, there was a great valley, a fertile valley. So people and fighters from Central World, they invade, they came, they occupy, they spread their own culture and so it is a difficult nation which has got plurality and various sex. But even then, we live together. We are happy even though there are some drawbacks. Ultimately, in total, it is a very good nation and the people are very good and the leaders who lead us are very fine. If certain defects are rectified, if rule of law is allowed to be established, respected and the majesty of law is perceived, then we can stand as a strong nation in Israel. And with great respect to you and thankful to you, I may be permitted to conclude this session. Thank you sir for sharing your knowledge. We could see that you have taken the wide spectrum of the knowledge on rule of law right from the medieval age till the present on the latest affairs. And there is one question he says, we as the citizens have been ruled by force slash fears of king for thousands of years, not rule of law. That's why we respect power, not law. Our education can bring change in the mentality for respect of law. Definitely. By education, we know what is right and wrong. By education, we know what is the situation in other countries. By education, we come across law and its importance. Unless and otherwise, you read newspapers and to watch important news, you may not be able to know what is going on here. Only if you are educated, you know what is meant by legislature, what is parliament, what is its duty, how courts function, what is the importance of law. An uneducated man may not be able to perceive the glory of only if you are educated and your mind is allowed to develop, you can feel the importance of law. Education is a must to know the rule of law. That was the only question, sir. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. We will keep bothering you to share your knowledge on this platform. Thank you everyone. Stay safe. I am most of the best. Stay blessed. And thank you to Mr. Karunan Nithi who introduced me. He is here. Yeah, I would ask him also to join.