 And we're live or I'm live and everyone else is joining me So I want to start out with a couple things though, and then this is I I was in Florida two hours ago and now I'm back in Detroit, so that was a Big event. I'm actually share a picture Throw this up on there, you know last minute gotta get everything ready And I know when I first hit live it takes a second for everyone to jump into the live stream All right, we got good morning from Australia If it would if it's it's good afternoon from Detroit, but I did wake up in Florida So that's it's a few hour flight for those of you that don't know the geography of the United States very well So don't have a big international audience that if you are in Florida You're about a two and a half hour plane ride from being back to where I am in Detroit I also partially lost my voice because I had just so many people I was talking to I was at the IT nation Secure events a security event for the IT and MSP professionals. So It was a whole lot of fun I got to meet though This is what I want to start with I got to meet so many people who follow my channel other security professionals and other technicians and people that work at these IT services companies. So it was just a Really really cool meeting so many of you in person. That was a big. Thank you I always and you know enjoy it took selfies with people and everything else But yeah, this was the last day some part of the after-party event that I was at So did I meet Florida man? I was Florida man for a couple days I think but I did lose my voice in the process here my only problem I have is I get fund out when it comes to Too much noise like it's an auditory thing for me if I'm in just a loud area for too long it becomes quite an issue But it's always cool. You know, I've actually had Jason. He's he's local actually Jason is from Toledo Which is not far from Detroit. He's about 45 minutes or so for me He's been on my channel before it was you know cool to meet and hang out with a lot of these people So it's been really well. This is a really good event. I'm going to be doing more of these type of events And if you don't know from my other channel Sean, you know got to hang out with him. He works for the company that put it all on So yeah, it's just really kind of cool, but to everyone I met there. Thank you very much Thank you all those who came up to me and said hi And if any of you see are seeing this and seeing me and didn't come I you should have I mean it's just you know That's why I go to these events is to go be social and do some learning and you know talk and share stories and everything else So I got to meet a lot of cool new people and everything else. So Oh, let's see Let's see Glad you're late so is I So he's here. How do you from new Hudson the long worker first-time commenter? Hey, feel free to say hi on here digitally, you know, not just uh, not just in the Real world when I'm at events because I will be doing some of the other IT nation events But I'm easy to find I post on twitter and linked in where I'm going for those of you that want to connect with me Those are good places to Follow and connect me and everything else. So just want to start out and say all of that so Uh, let's see here What else do we have? virtualization I figure that's a good place to start um The I did the videos that people asked for and of course people are unhappy now They're the arguing went back and forth. I see some people hate this or hate that The Differences between proxmox and xcp and g seem to just really bother some people On there. So that video's I got lots of engagement lots of comments on there Of some of them are people that just really chose not to like the system And I don't really know why so they want a dog But the part I haven't asked the audience here because I'm going to trust you the brain trust the people that are listening to me Uh to answer this question People keep telling me kvm is the most widely used hypervisor But I don't think that's true, but they're not citing any sources. It seems to be just you know Someone on youtube said now my understanding is that Most of aws not all but most of aws still runs on zen server And certain instances do run on kvm But if that still holds true and I don't I googled I didn't see anything that was a real statistic that like Gave me concrete evidence of account per se of exactly how many units they have running But from everything I can kind of gather just googling stuff They mostly base things on zen server Over at now. This is not xcp and g specifically the zen server hypervisor But certain new instances are built off of um kvm So I don't know that's why I'm actually asking here, you know, which ones are true Because I'm just curious if anyone knows or can cite a source other than People commenting on youtube telling me i'm wrong and zen server is completely not getting developed Which isn't true. It's actually being very actively developed. So I mean like I know that part's not true But I don't understand You know the other aspects of it So if anyone has a site A source they can cite on that particular topic. I would be interested in knowing tag me on twitter or anything else um And let me know So all right. Ooh greetings from germany Have I seen the amazon? astro I don't know what the amazon astro is And you know people, um Oh this Oh, I'll add I'll put it on the screen for context The household robot for monitoring a laxos 600 free trial However, you can predict. No, I don't need I I don't want a listening device from amazon in my house I also don't want a listening device with amazon in my house that can go anywhere in my house. So First no listening device second. No listening device that can drive around. So That's my opinion at least so yeah, it's up to you. What's yours in there? Hello from the ukraine. Hopefully you're staying safe over there. Uh Very cool. Things are Very cool to see all these people from all over the place Finally, you got sure. Nancy saw an old pc per your recommendation. I just need to get more storage drives. That's everybody's challenge I don't want to pay for a subscription for a robot dog to watch as me. No I mean, yeah, like an episode of black mirror is just staring at you and you wake up. No That doesn't sound good in any measure. Uh Yeah, that's um Not something I think would be great. So But nonetheless, if anyone has any information on what I was mentioning before though You know, are there some hyper visor statistics somewhere? Has someone gathered this information? I think that's also You have to really whatever you see a statistic put together You have to ask how that statistic was gathered how that information was put together so you can extrapolate whether or not it's accurate And uh extrapolate the outward you can determine if it's accurate and you can determine if there was an error margin Sorry, I'm a little tired. I only slept for a few hours. Uh, if there what error margin they were working with and This is where the extrapolation part comes in a lot of statistics are generated by a small sample set And then they take the sample set and say that the sample set was big enough to get a good Average statistic of something and then they multiply at times the total number to give you what they assume will be the total number of said thing they measured but If you have a margin of error and you're using a multiplier, you've now also multiplied your margin of error So there's yes Just curious if anyone has it and the fact that I'm not seeing anyone really jump in and comment on that tells me that There's probably not That I can think of in that So nonetheless, uh, what else do we got here? See all the people joining the live stream now everyone's here. I got 86 people in the live stream now One of two questions. I've seen most of the videos you've done. I see on installing xcp and g No one's seen to be installing it from scratch on bare metal having trouble I mean I did the getting started one. I'm pretty sure I covered exactly how to install it which I mean Like anything else you go to download Grab the 8.2 iso here and you just download the iso And then you well flash the iso to a usb and run through the installer So I don't it's not that hard to bare metal install As a matter of fact here, let's uh Copy link because you know what you can do this is fun Um, pull this up and I know you can't see it. I'm typing. It's okay. We'll get there Because I'm I'm remoting into a server because I it's on another side of a vpn And what we're going to do is we're going to while we're just kind of talking here We're going to install zen orchestra somewhere, but I'm going to I want to I don't have because I wasn't planning on doing this Uh, there we go Gotta curl it. I think oh hold on gotta type curl Brackets in Didn't work. All right, I'll download it later. I don't have it right now So I'll I'll get it and we'll do I'll do I'm working on a new tutorial video on anyways, but there's not a problem doing that. So Um, I even in my video I do cover how to do the install on it A huge fan of proxmox for homelab after really diving into g at work and vm where I can't deny I'm considering making the change because I don't use lxc anyway And that's some people some people like old didn't I put that at the beginning if you're using lxc containers And that's a you know, uh, I can't live without a feature for you then don't use and use proxmox I mean, I said the beginning as well proxmox is stable use it if it makes you happy. So Great channel been following you for a while. I learned a lot special pf since awesome Showed up with zen work assignment Linking it with xo Uh, there's a deployment you can do. So let me pull that up. Maybe that'll be less confusing So let's go to the host because we have a host. I didn't do this on yet. I could probably make this happen I think it's configured to allow this So you need to get the ip address Uh, it's forbidden forbidden Because I I'm not on the same network as as that is so You can download it directly out of machine How do you update the community edition? You Well, you just run the updater. So let me give you an example Exit switch to that screen Here we go Gotta make it bigger Oops Yeah, the updates are easy on it Um, well first before we do updates You always want to do backups. So if we go here and uh So there's our xo community. There's From nine days ago. Let's back it up again. It's got this backup. I want to do a quick delta backup So let's go ahead and just run this backup job real quick So we'll back it up and just in case I break something while I'm updating it I've got a absolute snapshot from when I did this matter of fact as soon as I did it, um the I can actually uh because there's it's got this other snapshot So I don't have to wait for the backup job to finish because I have the snapshot So in case I break something that could happen, uh, we don't have to worry about me not having it So let's go back to sharing the screen share Screen Window This one see how that looks So make sure I got it. I got to make it a little bit bigger and I take this off the screen I'll make it a little bigger so it's easier for people to see so I think if I Here we go so This is mine and there is the zen orchestra sol updater And the first thing I do is we already have this and I have it how to get this on your computer Or how to get this in a VM already documented But we want to do a get pull because there's maybe some changes You always want to make sure you're using the latest version. Hey, look there was changes So two files change eight insertion seven deletion. So there's some modifications to the master You can follow the changes if you care But then from there because you know the same one you used to do the xo install you just want that same one again Uh xo install Hey, look and the option is number two right here Update it's really as simple as that. You just run the update and uh, then you can update it It'll build the new version. So you don't have to reload it or anything like that. It'll keep everything in place And uh, you can keep updating it Hello from france. You posted in windows latest video the forbidden router running against risk of window mentions 10 gauge writing with what's your thought on that for a rare one setup By a 6100 Or spec out something with at least the specs of a net gate 6100 and you can do 10 gig So that's my thoughts on that Let's say I have two machines, uh, not I'm saying or I'm currently saying that a That the install xc png one and xo on the other and I can link xc machine to That xo Yes You one instance of xo can manage many instances so You know, that's the let's go ahead and switch. We'll stop that and share the screen again So here If you go to settings servers This is the pool of zen Which has this host it talks to then this is the uh labeled here. It's actually wrong. This is uh That pool Um, so there's a lab pool. There's the pool of zen and here's the host these two hosts are In lab and these two hosts here are the pool of zen hosts So these are four systems in one instance of zen orchestras running all of them. You only need one instance I can keep adding more and more I can go here and just keep adding servers and go down the line or You add the servers, but you add only the master server for each pool That you have so that may be where you're getting a little confused on it Question about xcp and g. Can you do usb pc? I pass users an orchestra. You need to use command line command line That part just true. So yes That's correct. You can create xo in guesting your vm xcp and g. Yes. That's correct as well Yeah, maybe I need to do like an explainer video to show the architecture. Um on it so Which by the way, I mean it's if you search for like how it's looked up It's all the architectures right here. So here's your one host host resources local iso Direct-attached storage when you group them together into a pool resource with the shared storage over here Each individual host has its own local storage. The pool resource has a pool master that pool masters talked to by xo and It can be two hosts three hosts up to 64 hosts In that particular resource pool Does it make sense to install xcp and xo on proxmox to play around? Or is that too much irony? Hey, why not? That's the the beauty of doing the virtualization is be able to do things like that Proxmox is perfect for the part-time lazy home virtualization and never goes in depth at it. Yeah, I mean Proxmox is not a bad setup. It's it's relatively easy to do these things And uh, you know, I didn't find proxmox challenging to get set up because right here is my proxmox demo um I was just renaming it all and real showing how the real naming everything works But you can even virtualize and I don't know how nested virtualization works inside of proxmox, but inside of xcp and g it's just It's a button right here that says nested virtualization. So you can do that Yeah, there's definitely this issue nested virtualization problems will arise your When you start nesting things you can cause more problems this is even why window referred to that video as you know, the dark side of routers because He knows as much as I do usually you deal with enough of these out in the fields you have all these quirks you run into and It's like you're adding a Extra layer so you add an extra layer of complexity and when you add complexity, there's always a chance for more problems yeah Trying to break up a proxmox was super easy to install. This is true too. Proxmox is easy. Um, I don't have a problem with it Uh, does xcpg have the processor being sane limitation? Like vmware, what does the processor being sane mean? I don't know that term processor being sane Implementation of the processor sane virtual processor and post x thread. I don't I don't understand exactly the question you're asking so Have you experienced Have an experience or advice for a new next cloud user? Um, it's a lot to learn make sure you have a patching methodology more than anything else Oh, uh, same number of cpus in course. Uh, first the next thought thing I don't use it myself. I keep talking about using it, but then I don't have a strong use case for it uh It's a nice platform if you have a lot of private documents you want to share It's not bad, but just make sure if you decide to make next cloud public-facing you have a Methodology to keep it up to the patch because if it's public-facing it can be attacked And if there's a flaw found in it and sad, but there's so many of these that they had a flaw No one had a patching because there you go. I don't know how to patch it I just knew how to set it up. I followed the instructions But didn't have a method and next thing you know your private documents become a lot less private because they get owned So yeah, definitely a problem Processor wise though, so we can answer that question Go over here. Well, actually let's go to the host This server has 48 Processors or 48 threads in it not 40 processors But this is the uh, which chip is in this this is an intel e5 2680 b3 and then the other one Is not it's only got 32 available vcpus and it's a Xeon e5 2670 So yeah, you don't have to have the same processor and I've showed before I can live migrate things between um These systems like right now this is on a bunch to 2004 And uh, where's this let me share storage and share. Yeah, it's a shared storage So if I want to migrate it to the other system, so if you see at the top here, it's on the 720 migrate Now I don't even need to do that. We'll just do that migrate um There we go And now it's migrating Go here see the task Cued up the migration job says hey, you should go over there And nine eight six two one done It's now over there on the other server and I might in these processors are of different generations So yes, it will work Does your msp file in the nist csn recommendations controls? uh Essentially yes, but that I'm not an expert on that. I have other people that are So yes, we follow like the nist guidelines for things because we have some clients that have to do full compliance But we actually farm out to a separate company We bring in a special compliance consultant for making sure Things are actually done and forms are filled out Is there a 10 gig nick option at tmg just set up only see option for real techie 100 for the guests um Yes, because You like this Right here. This is running. Here's the ip address of it. Well, actually, um right here Actually, let's change the ip address. Let's put it on a different network like figure out um Put on this network So let's go ahead and uh So it's on a 10 gig network So it doesn't really matter what it shows here Like if it shows real tech, whatever for a nick type that doesn't really matter That's just drivers not speed or connectivity. So let me pull up my other We'll see Sorry for hold on Wrong bad example. This one has a broad comment So the broadcom Here's a here's a silly problem. The broadcom adapter sucks inside that particular server So we got to migrate it to the one without the broadcom That's over here. So I want to do another migration. We're going to move it back So it's not using your broadcom Because broadcams are stupid We will move it over and you will see the get faster. It'll start working at 10 gig As soon as it's done migrating. Well, now I got to shrink the screen. Oh, hold on. There we go I had the uh Screen messed up. So now it's on the other server So now I can do this. It's actually at 225. I have a hyper server and It's getting close to 10 gigs. There's a lot of other traffic going on That's why it's not going to get quite because it's this is all on a network that's got a lot going on But I'm at 7.3 gigs Uh, if I had on a clean network that didn't have anything it would Probably have no problem hitting 10, but you can do 10 without that. So Is that actually all on the server? Uh host machine and what we always said is access v ip address? Yes Yep, it's all of the ip you're looking at a you're looking at all this is a web browser based I'd like to know your opinion about qkvm on devian. Would you recommend that if you like using it? Use it. I don't think there's anything wrong with q emu in kvm and devian I don't use it. So I don't really have a strong opinion one way or another People seem to be happy with it Uh vmware evc is for v-motion same processor family. Um, let me double check something here. So go back to the host Does it say this way? No So this is the Uh vizion, you know e5 v3 and the other one is Not the v3. So there's there's some generational differences between the e5 2670. So yeah, it's I mean, there is still the problem of your You will go down to the least common denominator when it comes to feature sets on the processors. So Yeah, that could be an issue Uh, do you use a separate one for all your clients are one we use for most all the clients are all in one Uh one instance instead of a separate instance on there And the clients don't get access to it. So clients can't log into it So, okay use the vmware use vmx three drivers for 10 gig got it Broadcom is stupid. Yes. Yes. Broadcom is stupid. They make terrible network adapters With the motion before you start a vm and older family, you can live migrate up and down. So as long as it doesn't reboot Okay, are you transitioning all esa clients to xcp and g with your methodology do it at scale We don't automatically do it. Um If if especially because we do co-managed it if they're used to managing their hyper v environment their esa xi environment We're not here to tell them what they're not allowed to do if they ask us for a recommendation And it's a fit for them will recommend xcp and g but we're not a rip and replace type of it company We're a consultancy and it's not hard to support vmware Hyper v is a little bit harder support, but I got a guy One of my staff does do hyper v. I don't do hyper v But I do and this is a client that we have a co-managed Project with you know, we just help them replace all their storage servers They they know the hyper v side of the world. We just help them migrate their new storage servers. So there's not really, um Anything that you know, we're not we don't have a Absolute you must do it our way or not a lot of what we do is consulting and when you do co-managed it I mean to them as long as they like for example We know the storage side of the world and know how to do the migration They go we know and are used to and are competent in hyper v. We like it We understand whatever quarks so we know how to work with it to get things done Can you help us with a project? So it's not like we always are just ripping and replacing things Ah, yes, you notice that there's like the zenifer pool of zen. Yeah it's hard on big enterprises to push for non vmware integrations If only I was on an nta I would be telling you of all the large companies that we deal with that you've heard of that are brands that you've used That are not using vmware I always laugh when people I we're seeing it scale upwards and so is the people over at vates like But once again, you can't just drop client names all the time. So When can we buy a udr regression switch at msrp? I have no idea No idea It looks like proxmox to pair to a hyper v installation. I'll go with that I rather see using proxmox than hyper v So I hope in the future they support uh thin provisioning when you're using a nas sand as a vm guest for storage Um, I mean they do if you if you have your nas and sand set up its nfs All my stuff is thin provisioned so if we go over here to storage And this is thin provisioned Uh, where does it say it? Yeah, right there thin provisioning thin So yeah, it supports shared, uh, thin thin provisioning. So Do you expect the number of xcp engineering cells increased within the smb market increased over time with the broad comic station? It all increases or we were already seeing it when vmware raised their prices Um, about a year ago at the same time they laid off Hold on. Let me pull it up vmware laid off A bunch of people a while ago. Um When was it? Hold on I'm finding because I apparently you're doing it again When did they wow there's a lot of this isn't uh Layoff 2021 was it? So let's pull this up so we can just talk intelligently about it Yeah, vmware had laid off roughly 30 000 before 2021 so That's uh, that's a lot of people that got laid off there by understanding Allegedly that a lot of these people worked in support because what are the problems that this is what we were told I'm not a vmware. Um authorized reseller. I'm not a vmware consultant I'm not vmware certified and so people are coming to me With knowing they want to switch to xcp ng. I didn't sell them on it They decided they liked that they found my videos in here. We are talking They've been telling me At least the people who are contacting me take it all with a grain of salt because they already had it in their head They wanted to switch before they called me. They are telling me their support was really bad with vmware and license They're too expensive, you know, and that's a lot of times people think it's all about price It's not it's about value And if you are paying a lot of money for something it's like people like Mercedes people like Bentley's but if you spend $400,000 on your car and it's a terrible car You suddenly don't like it anymore because you expect a premium level of support and quality to come with it This is it's a value proposition vmware makes a product that you know Like anything they can have issues and if it needs support You're not getting the support and you're paying the premium price You start questioning why you pay a premium price for an alleged premium brand that didn't provide what you were looking for So that's my thoughts on all that from a bigger perspective Yeah, so you'd be shocked at how many big companies are using this Uh Tom or your eyes because it used EFS compression because I actually did watch your videos And I'm where's part one of that question? Uh Probably once broad cam starts applying subscription based they'll force clients They move some clients and moves some clients won't Even if you don't want to use nfs and I want to use ice-coated compression on the back storage, which still equal the same as thin provision Yes, um That's true too Alleged premium brand. Yeah, we'll go with alleged It's that's the thing but nonetheless, that's uh You know if a company is playing off people raising prices and providing subpar support Yeah, you're gonna have more people going out. Why am I buying? Why am I paying for this? You know That's how those things go. What are you gonna do? Uh, so many fun companies to talk about but I'm mostly You know, I like it, but I I always you know Tell people there's other things out there to make you happy. I'm not the only source of truth on this and I'm not Saying it's the fit for every Every solution like it was that when you only have one thing to offer You know that one thing becomes the hammer and everything else becomes an ale like this is the solution We're just gonna beat it in everybody and it's not um, matter of fact One of the clients that was using it we took it away and not be where it was all those things like we well We're migrating them back. We're like because They only are have one Virtualized server doesn't seem like a good point So sometimes you see people over complicating things like if you only have one server Why are you running virtualization? You may as well just run it all bare metal The other issue is perception that they can throw vcps at a problem if they have to well, yeah the perception Uh, I had to deal with a lot of fun related to perceptions over the weekend There's always, you know the conversations and things like that, but that's what's actually fun when I go to the impertinent events It's just having these um debates back and forth about methodologies and processes and the way you do things because you're not always right In you're not always wrong and sometimes you have people who just have two completely different approaches But I always remind people is at the end of the day Does it make the client happy and are you making money? Cool? If you've answered those two questions and you're you're not stressing yourself out and it's not just uh Total chaos awesome. You figured out the right way for you to do that. Um, that's you know, a big piece of it So hopefully that so Oh, yeah, thank you for clarifying that as yes talking about the compression side of it Um, you know, I I need to set this back up because it's been a minute proceed But in your storage Probably right here Yeah, the compression rate So you can see right here's zen lab nfs store And yeah, you can see I got a compression ratio of 1.42 It's able to compress quite a bit when it comes to That and this is already thin provisioned and it can compress it So if you think provisioned it and had you know, we're using the compression It would be even more So that's for sure by the way, too, the jails get compressed a lot because um You know, there's a lot of repetition in the versions of them when you're doing the jails So you get a lot of that too so I only have one server, but I run it on Proxima's the key server gets attacked to be on repair copy paste known good backup restore data from nas offline snapshots. Yeah I mean, there's advantages to just you know, even if you have one single server virtualized because yes You're not wrong at all. You can absolutely do that. You can just go through and uh snapshot and bring it back to a known good state very quickly um But what else did I have on my agenda to talk about? I just put itation trials which I was so tired I did this this morning because I was out so late talking to friends. So it was all those You know that as you can tell I haven't even completely got my voice back yet or anything else So I'm not I didn't have a real laid out agenda for stuff to talk about Do we have lots of fun things I want to work on? that I'm going to do because of one of the I wanted For my own edification Go through and get a better understanding of this actually let me stop this lab is I don't need this one here Uh, let me find is this the only Approxima page our products lab here we go And where's the disc that pull cool? So let's go ahead and start this on the lab server Because I bet there's other things running on here. Oh, I know your show logs Not enough cpus. Oh, yeah I think this is Where did I set that up? I would this is something I was playing with I was looking to see if it had 90 cpus. It does not so let's go over here and try and start that again There we go lab our 630 it or is Oh Yeah, no this now. I know it should okay. I know I did wrong. I need migrates to the other server um But I want to play with over provisioning cpus to see what happens. That's going to be kind of fun Um, I do not use twin gate. I don't um I don't really have an interest and I looked at it. It does it's not I don't have anything against it But it twin gate wasn't compelling um No, you only pull it up so that people know what I'm talking about. Is it twin gate dot com? And so twin gate replace your vpn with zero trust solutions. I hate they call it that twin gate is a um, you know offering That reminds me of zero tier It's not open source, you know what I mean people have Pricing the other pricing is a little bit different. So like pricing on zero tier What is it um nodes five dollars? Uh per month for 25 node pack Uh first pack free Unlimited nodes One ten dollars for the admin. There's different pricing models on there and if you go back to there's I think you have to oh, yeah 10 dollars per user per month or five dollars per user per month Up to 50 users two vices for sure there But and we also have we'll go to tail scale as well. There's a few different companies using it There's times when it's a good solution. It kind of it depends on what your clients needs are um, tail scale is pretty cool to uh Pricing for tail scale five dollars per user per month or your business one 15 dollars per user per month Uh, tail scale is pretty clever. I think it's a cool system a little bit more when you change it to monthly pricing Uh, but they're all overlay networks to solve things. So uh, we use them But we usually recommend tail scale and zero tier the most um, but there's It's not for everybody, but there are times when there's use cases Uh, we you don't we want like a constant connection of systems to some internal line of business applications But if you have a client that's using all web applications with sso, it's not necessary So do you have a problem that needs solving it? Yeah, there's a few different options when it comes to doing overlay networks zero tier tail scale And twin gate see the the thing that makes things like twin gate popular is if i'm not mistaken I haven't used it. Um, I think they have like partner programs and things like that. Yeah Partner with twin gate. They they have a whole reseller program and sometimes that's why They get more traction. They have add dollars focused on partner programs to get people reselling their product. So uh, I mean cool, you know, why not but These do you who do you need at first is the question? I start with what does the client need instead of trying to find something and shoehorn it in Uh, why use virtualization for one server don't deal with odd backup solutions Uh, yeah, so hyper v for free pvx Off-topic, uh drink hot water lemon and ginger. Yes. Yes I usually do um, I I've been drinking I drank even Uh coffee just before to try to wake me up as well because I didn't I haven't slept much in the last couple days But yeah Any chance of video see up next cloud on true nastin add remote access? Um Maybe It's I might do that. I haven't decided Do you run in zen orchestra on a dedicated machine or a vm as well version vm as a virtual host, uh So we go over here And there's a zen orchestra community running. So this runs on one of my systems. It's running based on debbie and 11 and it's set to Auto power on There we go. I didn't have I didn't have a screen shared But yeah set to auto power on and it runs on one of the systems here You do that. So if you ever have to restart all yours stack, um, it just starts up with it Um, but you can go in manually and start it as well Why is there always a task coming disappearing? So it looks strange There's a bunch of tasks that just run on different bases for things So it looks strange, but you can go through the history and see what they all are Um, everything runs as a series of tasks on there. So I shared one of these earlier Um, nope not this one. Hold on Because you can set tasks for Where's the one I told him I pull it up for my twitter, I guess pull that up There we go You there's like tasks you can set up for things like this for load balancing Um for complete automation and stuff like that everything's a whole series of tasks that are just running in the background Uh, depending on how you have your system configured I have a bunch of backup tasks that run because it's it's one instance as an orchestra managing all my lab and all my production stuff so Just for testing and trying restoring a vm. Guess you snapshot of your true nas or synology Restoring a vm. Guess using your how would I do that? Tried restoring a vm. Guess using a snapshot of your true nas Well, I wouldn't do it that way If I were to restore a snapshot of something, um I would use the snapshots here So I would use like, you know, here's my uh, let me stop this one but I'd take a snapshot of it And then if I change something I would just revert back to the snapshot That's the more ideal way to do it So Probably booted already So there there's that snapshot. I just did 22 seconds ago Finished this thing starting up So am I correct that your xo instance on your r720 you installed xo from an iso went to the vm Went to the vm tab point it to your xcp incident, which is also running on there 720. Yeah, it kind of we didn't install it from an iso, but yes, um Well, technically I did I installed debian from an iso not xo from an iso We loaded debian and then I loaded everything I needed to load on debian So, yeah, that's hopefully makes sense, uh from there But wait now I can log in And uh, what's the command I should run everyone? What's the command we tell every new linux user to run? Right new can pave man What happens when we do this? getting bad rmrf man, that's how you uh set everything up So while that's running in the background Hey, tom, you know, it's like using pf sense. How do you manage your fleet with your clients remotely? It's first and where pf cent doesn't have a cloud console to be easily managed. That's correct We just log into each one of them. Have I tried deep in linux? No, I have not I think j might have but I haven't Can I migrate bare metal service to xcp and g? Yeah, you can clone them Uh, what is the container system? They don't use containers Yeah, there's not really a container system for it. Uh, I guess run someone hold on run x I think they're working on I have not tested this This is a uh tech preview Here we'll stop this Before we jump over to the next thing File system has become read only. It's broken Well, it's shut down. Maybe yeah, we'll start up. Let's find out And then I'll jump over to the run x thing So we are in rft. What happens to it now? How far will it boot? Not far. I think it's probably stopping right here. Oh, no There we go. Huh I got further than I expected I know a bunch of things you're missing though Yeah, certainly things are missing because it's no longer There's a lot missing now. But anyways, we'll stop it again Um, but back to the snapshot thing You know, I can just go back and say revert this via the snapshot All right. Now it's exactly where we left off So reverted successfully, but uh, they do and they're working on this I just haven't I haven't used it all so I don't really use containers for things But yeah, this is the run x run x is available in tech preview This was just late last year for those of you interested in hardened container security Play with run x is uh directly inside of xcpgs. We've delivered it one month after additional announcement quick run rex is a spec compliant container running containers as virtual machines. So it's not something I really Drove into It's available if you want to play with it Okay, db is running on bare metal and the next xcb are virtualized on top of that. No That's not correct We load xcpng and then we build a vm with dubby and in it An experience of 40 sim no I'm gonna come on say a lot of features a lot of managed untangled product is the cmd portal Sorry untingles fine. We we like untangle too You didn't sudo did you you're right? Let's break it better this time I forgot to say please You're not wrong at all. So let's go ahead and start it back up So you're completely right. I forgot to that Have you ever thought of using puppeter and full advantage pf sense? No. Well, yes, but I don't have a need for it What what would I manage it use? What would I be doing? That I need to do to every pf sense and solve at the same time but This person noticed what tom didn't do so we'll do this whole experiment again Only reason I'm asking products. I would miss the lxc containers. Yeah I mean if you need lxc containers then don't switch. That's my answer Does xo have to be on debian will rain find out a bunch too far as I know you can use a bunch too Um, I'm just used to debian so I kept building it in debian, but I built some things in a bunch too as well But let's do this a little different first. We're gonna go and log in Actually do something like this one around each top and the reason why Because you can see in the council here. I got something running We want to go to snapshot snapshot with memory So I want an exact Running instance of this not just a snapshot, but a running instance of it So once this is done with the checkpoint here And this will turn green again, then we're gonna type sudo rmrf and break it so Yeah, sudo equals please we'll go with that. All right Now we can go over to the council And because there's our snapshot now we have two of them And this one because it's got this little green here memory saved and we'll name it for nuking System Or youtube here we go. This is the before nuking the system for youtube instance Go back over to the council sudo rmrf Here we go Some things can't be removed, but many of them are being removed So If you do a back row xpd just includes snapshots are just the current image running Oh, they depends what type of backup it's not xcp and g you're doing a backup of it's the virtual machines And no it doesn't back up the snapshots for a virtual machine. Um But you can do that like you can bet you can make You can create a whole series of snapshots and make them part of the backup process There's a way to do that too, but it doesn't grab The snapshots that are existing Um and use them for a backup they're part of the vm But they're not part of the backup the backups are separate file targets. Um outside the machine Dixie you still need zen tools via windows update that prevents them from booting outside a zen host It does have I'll show you Like when you use zen for things We turn the windows update on it works fine actually The server here you just flip this switch and it loads the drivers automatically via windows update um Someone was complaining and I don't understand this this is a confusing perspective to me people are like but tom If you do this it loads proprietary drivers from citrix They should be open source drivers. I'm like windows is proprietary. Who cares if it has proprietary drivers I don't see this as a problem. So But yeah, it automatically loads them all right Now we've removed a lot of stuff here. I'm probably just going to stop it here. How much is left Well, we can't even do an ls now You can reboot it Nope, there is no more reboot option. Can we stop it? Nope, it doesn't understand the command anymore because it it sent the command Hey, nothing happening. It is broken. So let's go ahead and uh We're gonna force shut down No, it's waiting Task canceled. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah There we go. It's shut down Go ahead and start it See what shows up on the screen here PV drivers break booting windows outside uh vm I'll say if you need to need want to move things like dr site public for a cloud disaster Whereas then I'm fine with the drivers Um, I don't think it breaks them. I'm pretty sure we can restore them. Um, I don't think it's an issue But it's been a minute since it tested Well, last time I tested I could but usually if it's in zen it's going back in zen. So it doesn't it's not a concern Um, we're usually if we you know, we have is if we have a client with zen server A lot of times you'll have even more than one But our disaster recovery and dr plan for them would be to put it back the way it was rather than changing environments Um, so if it was backed up and probably dr was it ran on a zen server and that zen server explodes We'll probably get them another zen server and uh load it again. So it hasn't not an issue that really comes up much for us So hopefully it makes sense, but the um Yeah, rescue mode Yeah, we don't need that. So let's do this cancel So force shut down just get rid of this It's broken, but this is the part I wanted to show is I love this feature You know revert vm to this snapshot before the new king of the system on youtube And it should revert perfectly fine to this. I don't need a snapshot before Let's see how long it takes to be able to do this Hit resume didn't There's another way to do it. So hold on. Let's go ahead Because it's now suspended I I broke it. I've had this happening for as I was supposed to do it like this when it was in a running state. So let me Force shut it down Put it back in a running state I don't want a suspended state is why So it should it should fail Which is fine I'll wait till it gets to the failure point on here and then I'll restore it All my machines are blue screened in kvm hyper EVM wear and testing Sometimes photo clouds faster than new hardware to focus In the golf. Yeah, most of our hurricane Yeah, no situations but far as you know, I mean you can just remove the drivers because it's similar problems I've had with um when it's like vm wear and things like that so But see it reverted, but it's not running h top anymore like when I did it But I should be able to do this now that it's in a running state I should be able to revert vm to snapshot and it should in theory Oh, I put it in suspended mode again Crap. Oh, well And we'll let me resume it, but I can force shut it down at least it reverted happy thursday In actually this kind of goes back to one of my earlier things So much of to my knowledge so much of what runs in aws has sent server So those tools being loaded shouldn't be a problem if you spin it up in aws But happy thursday for sure. I'm gonna wind this down here in a little bit Because I'm getting tired and I have more stuff. I want to go do we'll see Reply to lots of emails. That's my big Uh thing to go and do So but what are some other questions people have about virtualization and things like that in here? I think I answered quite a few of them Actually, too, I can get rid of some of these snapshots That's that's a different problem. You have too many snapshots of things But I'll make sure it's all in a bootable state before I do this get rid of it But I will be doing some testing on um Some theoretical discussions on what happens when you over provision processors So that's going to be a series of tests. I want to do on this particular server How many VMs one look at the other one here I rise in one Yeah, there's just one One windows machine running right now We have a lot of internal lab stuff for we just do a lot of testing When when people tell us things like hey, we're seeing this problem with this website And this is one of them. I know one of our clients is using we'll set up these VMs That's also why there's so many snapshots Before installing this before and doing that So Lots of things to do in there for the lab testing I see it good for a lab, but below the quality would offer by vmware I have a lot of people that disagree with that because they've had a lot of problems of vmware But hey, whatever use whatever makes you happy use what you can support use what makes you happy. That's what matters You should go and watch strange in the world. So that's definitely what i'm going to be doing tonight because the new episode's out So yes, I'm a big fan of strange new worlds for sure Literally just clone zilla my last windows hyper v virtual machine over like cpng and couldn't be happier Hey, that's why I sell people use what makes you happy use what you can support. Use you what you know how to use That is enough to do a lot of it here um New here what benefit of using something like pf sensor open sense Well, when you use your consumer routers, you end up with all the consumer problems that come with them, especially lots of often bad firmware or lack of updates to firmware and potential security issues that just never get patched on consumer level routers They're getting better but that's really Hit and miss and it's hard from a security standpoint from like even my standpoint to Check in on each of these consumer routers because Even the big brands are sometimes not that great at keeping everything up to date So it's not an easy answer of whether or not they're secure or not use something like pf sensor open sense You're talking about something that's got better overall support and features on there so And this is probably a good point as well Try setting up policy based routes your multiple hands or home router if you have advanced networking needs This is something you're just You know not going to get but then again Some people don't need those and if you don't need anything I know that makes sense to me then and you're not interested in learning networking then stick with whatever you have I mean Recommendations for a budget friendly pf sense open sense firewall box If you want trouble free you just go right with the neck gate boxes um and they work great, you know if you Get the neck gate boxes and you get um when is it like the appliance is 2100 Or even the 1100 at 189 dollars are kind of hard to beat I know the prices are not as cheap as people are wanting that people want them for even less than that If not, um, you can find some of those they're a little More hit and miss in terms of where you find them from there are some of the protect teleboxes and things like that floating around out There if you wanted to use one of those Uh, you can find them on amazon um If you type in probably an amazon These boxes come up not there's the consumer stuff, but the quote on ones These are popular they're in that similar price range And before you go no, they're not they're only this much Bare bones so you have to start adding things into it And adding more memory to it it gets up back to similar price range There's a little bit less consistency and the quality of those I think or even the availability of them, but they work What technical requirements make you choose a hate provider on xcp and g it's usually client requirements or you know, we We don't have any clients that require containers. That's not really a thing for us um Probably like some of them just really like hyper v usually The other ones if you have to in or if your existing infrastructure has a bunch of very large vms That because someone provision them that way that are really huge that are bigger than will fit next cpng Then yeah, that's might be where we go back to vmware for them Didn't rise to be here in orlando. Yeah, I was there. I had a good time I was in orlando from monday till a few hours ago No, I don't really do much with the omata stuff anymore um There just I don't know. I don't care for their product line that much I mean if you want to use it, they seem to be fine for my consumer standpoint But i'm not interested in using them in a business standpoint Uh unify makes me nuts. I have two sites with them I vpn into one. What's my p shows a public ip of site one dpn two shows public ip whatever Never came currently connected to I don't care unify needs to really work on their vpn So I don't know when that's going to happen. It's a suggestion I don't know when it's going to actually occur if it'll occur so that's I can't make them do it It could just be something that the world keeps suggesting and maybe one day they'll decide to do Still got to do a video on net data as well I use this uh internally I know a lot of people this is this uh net data you can install this on there look at your different nodes um As a matter of fact, let's see it's changed just to People ask why there's tasks running all the time Hey, look these are when backup jobs are running Here's some of the actually will go more than 12 hours. Let's go to last day Here's all the metrics you can tell when bigger backup jobs run versus Something I don't know what was running here. Probably something my staff was running When you kick off different jobs you do a matter of fact. Let's go back to our um five minute view So here's our real-time updates on things in a five minute view and we go to zen rickshaw And I'm going to run a job just to show you what it looks like so All's I'm doing is kicking off a backup nothing big here So let's go ahead and just run a backup job And see what happens vpn on psense works great. You are not wrong Yeah, and that data is just great Can't believe because we're 16 billion they can't vpn Yeah, I keep telling everyone not to buy the routing products. So Uh, no net data is free. It's open source. Hey, look It's refreshing and updating now. I think you got to actually say paused First play there we go that way when I switch screens it keeps playing You can see that tom kicked off a backup job. You can see the load changing and the cvu load and everything else Uh, but net data has added so many cool things like they have now some metric correlation Please select a time frame. So we'll As I think do this There we there we go Oh metric correlation find correlations um It can now consolidate instead of seeing everything it'll consolidate and do metric correlations You can do some machine learning stuff for anomaly detection It's just really slick all the stuff they can do with this now analyzed And it now broke down The things that are going on at the same time You know That caused all of this like oh, okay. What users cpu disc, you know redis Here's the different requests and what the requests look like and you can narrow down to more Results or you know to try to figure out what caused a spike in cpu. Obviously, I know what caused the spike It was me. I I kicked off a backup job Let's go back to the last 10 minutes it apply bring us back to real time So there's the initial part of the backup job. Here's the other part of the backup job We can look at it from the system overview or it's because it's running redis We can look at the redis requests that went through for connections Here's what that backup job looks like from a network redis standpoint or we can go over here ipvore standpoint You know sockets used and right now it's transferring the vm It's really cool playing with playing with his slick Uh, so nut day is basically going to show you devices now. It shows all the services running the device It's just a great way to visualize in Um, simultaneously your network your processes and processor and memory usage all at once and a lot of the details around it Oh, your iphone 13 has issues, but your ap6, but the macbook doesn't that's weird Thanks for introducing so many great tools. Hey, awesome. I love helping people What's doing between net data versus abix? What is more than that data focus net data just lets you know things visually. It's not zavix. It's not on full blown alerting action system zavix uses an agent and gives you A like a two-way street where you can actually have a trigger come in and then you can do something based on that trigger And action zavix is read only it just pushes data out data can't get pushed back in easier than agios Yes Yeah, like windows resource monitor, but much much better. Yep With net data in place or conjunction with uh, you could use it with zavix Because maybe you have an alert in zavix for a problem But zavix doesn't collect as many metrics as you get from net data So then you look at net data to understand the metrics better and be able to dive into things in more depth You know the way the packets are going or the way errors tcp Is there any udb packets? Nope. It's all tcps. So now we can start narrowing it down Applications these are the applications. I know there's really they're going to be really small on your screen here But you can see that this is a job earning with node. So node is taking up about 118 percent So most of this is all a node information. So as you go through you're like, all right, I know node's doing something Which is the user that's doing each of these things? Well node runs is Yeah, the way node runs on here and then we have the anomaly detection For what percentage of anomalous things have happened. Well, this is our baseline. This was anomalous This is when I clicked the job. This is when the job did the snapshot This is when the snapshot started transferring and this is the longer transfer That's going on right now as it's my is copying this vm to a backup storage So pretty slick and what you're able to do with your dashboards is You can uh look across several servers like all nodes gray log So you can create dashboards for your different nodes like this is like a view of the unify server so This is an interesting one. I mean we have like 70 clients on here and you can tell It doesn't do much it does not take a lot of resources to Run a unify server you can see the cpu is pretty much idle, but if you go over here and we go down to networking You can see like sockets used and packets and especially if you look at udp You see a whole lot more because it does a lot of udp going back and forth Just so you can like dive into the networking or how the networking stack looks TCP connection aborts, um, which other ones are here out of order q. That's going to happen sometimes broadcast, maybe someone pushed something because there's a broadcast change in here It's being actively used by my staff. So there's all kinds of changes going on but overall you can see it really doesn't take much to uh run it you can look at the Anomaly detection when to where there are anomalies And if I was trying to let's even do it over time. So let's go like last two days And look at more about the stuff you can just keep kind of pivoting through the data Looking at the workloads. Matter of fact, this is probably an interesting one because Let's go back further. Let's go back. What does it look like over seven days? There's our up and down Up and down for the data So there's more packets in a daytime because it's got more log data to send So kind of slick. It's really slick playing with this. I want to do a video on it It's really easy to get set up gray log will be an interesting one. So what does gray log look like for If we did the last two days of gray log It's pretty steady A couple peaks where we were looking for I know I know already know what we were doing So we're looking for something and doing something right around then so Oh, no, this is actually on the backup around this morning. So let me change then When the backup runs it restarts the server on purpose So if we do is do the last 12 hours the backup ran at 6 a.m So there should be a peak at the beginning somewhere This is the fun data you can get by going through everything inside of here Any reason to work two true nas servers and two locations both have dual nix open vpn server I want to be in a cloner bound to two nix then use snapshot replication for off-site. Yeah, you can You know, you can vpn true nas together and send snapshots Um As long as you got the bandwidth to do it We snapshot data across vpns. It's it's not actually snapshotting data. You're using the um replication tool, but yes Do you saw access or just the nvr? If so, what access control solution we don't do much access control solutions not really Not really a huge part of what we offer Yeah, I covered the zfs snapshots. I made a video. Um, or maybe it was one of my live streams about it so You don't even need grafana. It's a lot easier to set up than grafana too My data running true nas uh has two network ports. Is it okay to virtualize my firewall on the true nas if so Um, I think it'd be a giant headache. I've never done it. It's probably possible. Um, I think it'd probably be a headache But hey, if you want to do it man, it's a good learning opportunity That's why window called it the dark side of the firewall It's just one of those things you end up with like so many Quirkiness with it. I don't like running things like that in production. That's my thing Ram available for applications. This actually let's play this for 24 hours. Here's a fun one I go go Here's where it reboots it it shut down right here And restarts and this is what's kind of cool. You can Select and zoom we're going to zoom into just this section right here There's the gap of reboot Which is reboots relatively quick. So it stopped. We got data all the way up to six It's the last piece of data six 2021 and six 22 so it was down for one minute Yeah, but uh almost two before it actually sends some telemetry back But so it's down a minute while it reboots But it also when you're doing that that's what causes it to all these gaps and spikes and activities that change for ramping back up on the restart disc IO So up to then the shutdown then here's your disc IO. That's really heavy when it first starts back up with like Hammering the disc on start Same thing right here Uh, what is this oh disc backlog because the IO gets backlogged when you restart it because it's got to reindex everything in elastic So It's slick how all that works I prefer not to run churnass as a vm, but hey you do you Yeah, that data is good because You can spend a lot of time on there You can spend a lot of time trying to figure out grafana and prometheus and things like that. So um, you just run into weird performance issues sometimes where Dropped packets and things like that. Um, weird performance jitters Then you're like, I don't know why it seems to be downloading slow It's sometimes because it's virtualized or some network adapter and compatibility Uh, that happens we had one of them. I couldn't get no matter what we did It was it would just kept um, it was some network card problem We have with the broadcom card shocker broadcom, right? Um, but it was It kept just getting really slow slow performance in the broadcom card. I have in my uh del server If I start a vm on that server it has notably less performance when you're doing things like iperf than it does on Even an older server that has an intel in it. So Yeah, physical box for firewall is always a lot easier Makes your life way simpler to do That's for sure system overview Let's go back to Last 10 minutes All this data No, this is I really like the um Net data they they are making it so nice to to use to set up to be able to They're working on some paid models to Do alerting in the cloud and some consolidation, but the free local version is free forever. So Um, I'm using your cloud version to consolidate everything into a cloud But you don't have to you don't have to use this at all. I'm doing it this way And by the way, yes, it looks the same when you're using it local So may pull up Let me just show people the difference because that's the neck data net data cloud I'm in right now when you don't use the cloud We'll go to Here here Here's the local version This is not in the cloud. It's gonna prop it's gonna ask me a question. Let's go to the cloud Let's stay at the agent dashboard. We're gonna stay at the agent dashboard. This is the same interface. It's just local So I have it consolidating to a cloud interface I don't I'm gonna cover how that works in that data, but it does not join the cloud by default you have to Add it to the cloud. So it's something you but it's it's an optional thing So you may contain all of your data and just use this locally with never tying it to a cloud instance The downside of doing it that way Is obviously i'm logged into this instance and it's just a little bit different like now if I click plus It takes me back over here. This is the cloud instance where I can just go and pivot But instead these i'm doing them all kind of like as a bookmark But I get those same features. I can do the last 30 minutes I can do the last two days worth the data so yeah Oh I do not have the history configured to go back that far. So that's a me problem You can this is something optional. I just don't need that much data Configured that data history and it walks you through how to configure things So if you wanted to you click that and it can take you here tells you how to configure it. They're very easy to do like memory db engine how much time do you want to save things for Global history 24 hours. What's your you know your data retention? You just copy and paste these into the config files and that's it So I'll do a video on that pretty soon. I've got an old video on that data It just looks so much nicer than when I was using it before so I need to do a new video on it To ask for thunderbolt storage never never tried it cool that it works Net data reminds me why I got my apple watch so many graphs to graph my movements. Which made it really Nerdy enough to start running. Hey, that's cool So the reason I took out net data was because there were some problems with A memory leak in bsd. I don't know why it wasn't easy to fix but it caused some stability problems is what I understood I don't know so Hopefully that makes sense. I I mean I liked it in there. I miss it I don't I haven't put it on my production ones because I don't know what'll happen But I don't want the I don't like the idea of Instability at all So I don't bother loading in on my production ones because I really need production ones to be stable How my son has joined what is up my son? So but I want to wind this live stream down. Thanks everyone for watching. Thank you for listening to my raspy voice for an hour hit me up in the forums and Uh You know love chat and a lot of you. Thank you to all of you who I did run into at the event over in Florida I look forward to going to more events where I get to see more people that you know can engage on a one-on-one basis instead of a through digital media basis, so Must be time for pizza probably so that's I'm assuming him saying father is leading to him asking for food Is that why you're here marcus? You need to be fed You just want to be on a live stream? Hello. Yeah, no at least you showered. Yeah, it's still wet Do I have to feed you now Yes But when does the bulk store go we got to go to the bulk store anyways All right. Have fun. I will see everyone later. Thanks for joining. Bye Say bye marcus. Bye. Bye He wants food