 Welcome everyone to our third tic-tac show and tell. It's great to have you all here. This session is going to be on empowering communities using geospatial technology, which sounds terribly niche, but it seems like so many people here are actually really excited and interested in the subject, so we are thrilled to have you all with us. I'm once again a really international audience as well, which is fantastic. We've got a lot of really really great presentations, quite varied, and as you know if you've attended one of these show and tells before they're very quick and snappy. Each presenter has only seven minutes to present. We do encourage you to ask your questions in the chat box, but in the interests of keeping the things tight and keeping things to time, getting this done within an hour. We are going to collect all those questions and our speakers will actually answer them offline within hopefully the next 24 hours or so and we'll get those answers back out to you. So thank you very much for coming along. As you know, as many of you know, tic-tac is our kind of event series that looks not just at what kind of civic tech is out there, but what the kind of impacts are and how it's actually really changing life for people around the world. So those of you that haven't been here to one of our events before, I'm Rebecca Rumble. I'm head of research at my society and me and Gemma, who is the head of events and who you probably had many emails from about this. We've been running tic-tac for six years now, I think, nearly, which is quite exciting because it continues to go from strength to strength. We are still online, obviously, but we very much hope that we'll be able to connect with you all in person again very soon. We are desperate to do in real life events. So just a little bit of housekeeping as you probably have been made aware of the events being recorded. I've gone over the questions in the chat. Hashtags are still a thing. So if you're tweeting, please use the hashtag tic-tac hashtag. Feel free to add to the collaborative notes that we've got going on. I think it'll be shared in the chat. And we know that after nearly 18 months of living on Zoom, it's very tedious to have your camera on all the time and realise this. So we won't feel like it's rude if you want to turn your cameras off and just kind of sit back and take it all in without having to look at your own little little screenshot in the corner or anything. So that's completely up to you. Thank you very much to our speakers for submitting the variety of presentations and for coming along today. And without further ado, I will shut up and we will crack on. So first up, we have Ben Vokes from Dlib on PlanTech and the geospatial ecosystem. So I will stop trying one screen. And Ben, over to you. Lovely. Thanks, Bex. And yeah, hello, everyone. Lovely to talk to you this afternoon. So I'm going to endeavour, say really rather a lot, in the space of seven minutes, which is a slightly crushing format, but I do understand the reasons for doing it. So oh, let's see how we get on. So this afternoon, my talk is called PlanTech and the geospatial ecosystem. And really, what I'm here to talk about, because that is a fairly obscure title, is some some learnings that we have found really from creating a new product. So for anyone that doesn't know, delivers a digital democracy company that's around about 20, 20 years old. Now we work with a couple of hundred governments and public institutions. And our technology helps them to deliver public participation projects of all types, their ongoing policy consultations, all the way through things like call for evidence, local decision making around health, regulation, you name it, and our technology is probably used for it. And everything that we've always done is a bit about making it easier for people to participate in these processes in the hopes that by opening them up, you're going to get better outcomes in the simplest sense. And really that's what I could probably say about that. And say, we've been working on this stuff for quite a long time, and the technology is fairly mature. But actually, I want to kick off by talking to you very quickly about land. So in terms of why we built this product and kind of what we've learned, it all really stems funny enough from land itself. So arguably land is everything. I imagine quite a few of you are sat on a piece of it right now. And actually land is more than just the things that we're sat on. It's a place. It's a resource. It's potentially a community. And it's increasingly contested. And the other tricky thing about land is that actually there's quite a lot of it. And that does present a challenge if we are to start to think about how we manage it and how we might bring people into decision making around that management. And say, you know, funny enough, there are ways to help with that. And maps really are kind of crucial to that. And say, I want to talk first about really maps themselves and what they might mean quite apart from in this context. Because maps clearly help us to navigate a place, understand our relation to it in the very real and very present sense. But they're also potentially aware of understanding the past. And also we're envisaging potential new features as well. So they're potentially that sort of palimpsest of base states, which is quite interesting. But actually, if we're going to use maps to interpret land, it really becomes a question of why we might go about doing that. And it almost feels redundant to say it at this point, but quite clearly, depending on your point of view and whether you happen to be authoritarian or what have you, I think we can all agree that climate change is causing a few thorny issues. And we really do need to address them. And apart from climate change, clearly, there are other massive drivers to change around land use all around the world, whether it's, you know, poverty, pandemic, post pandemic, if you're lucky enough to be in the right place. And say, what we have is a massive set of drivers in an increasingly contested world, I suppose, in the largest sense, and also a real need to involve people around future decisions and say, we were already seeing a huge amount of this activity happening from our customers over the last couple of years. And so it quickly became apparent that we needed to act upon that and to actually to find ways that we could incorporate maps. And really what I mean by that is geospatial technologies into public participation technologies and at scale as well. And so it really becomes a question when you do look into the technologies and what I'm wanting to kind of address some of these things as to the things that you're looking to help overcome a lot of technology, whether you want to call it using it, it really does come down to problems. And so what we did was we went and interviewed around about 30 government organizations largely in the northern hemisphere, and we wanted to know how they actually needed a monitor to use geospatial technologies in these processes. And we kind of suspected straight away that saying, well, people need to put a pin on a map is not a terribly good starting point for design. And so we went in and we looked and we asked, well, what are the processes you're running here? And we chose some deliberately quite difficult ones and technical ones, say in the UK, formal local planning ones, sorry, local government planning processes. And apart from those interviews and what we'd already seen, it was pretty obvious that the barriers here and the thing you need to address with geospatial technologies to make things better for users and by extension communities is to get through some really basic stuff, you know, like mapping technologies that do exist, they're not accessible, so large chunks of an audience can't take part. Most of them are ridiculously rudimentary, most of them don't allow you to get any meaning from the data. So what's the point of collecting in Latin long if you can't do anything with it? It's just an engagement exercise. We don't need any more of these quite frankly. And then there's all sorts of hideous things that involve paper and what you might collate with later, a shit ton of admin. And so as with all of these technologies, they have to work for both parties. So a lot of barriers, but also barriers that if you can overcome them, they're really going to solve the problem for both users, those public officials and those people trying to take part in decisions that probably are going to impact upon their lives. So lots of barriers, lots of research and development. I forgot I made this slide, it is rather attractive, yellow and yellow. Yeah, I don't like it at all actually. But anyway, what quickly becomes apparent is if you want to incorporate geospatial technologies in these kind of processes, it isn't sufficient as we thought and suspected simply allow people to put a pin on a map and produce an export. Actually you need to design and facilitate the whole thing for both parties. And that really is the kind of key learning around this. Either do geospatial well or don't do it at all frankly would be my recommendation. If you are going to do it at all, there's quite a lot that you need to build. So in end to end, we had to build and support the ability for users to add maps to a web page, way harder you might think if you're not using Google. So we had to get involved with using open-serve and open-street map props based on those providers. You need to give people control about the Zoom and then you also need to allow them to pull in data to overlay on those maps to inform people better in these kind of processes as usual. You need to find interesting ways or rather correct ways that people can interact with those challenges posed. So if you are going to talk about let's say sea level rises and the impact on a community that's living on a flood plain and you're worried about how they move around it, we really need to understand a route across that piece of land rather than simply a point which is largely meaningless. You also need to find ways which I don't have time to explain for public officials to get meaning from that data. So suddenly you're into the world of basically GIS systems and then finally the other opportunity around this is to make exercises more coherence. You need to find ways for data to be used in feedback, so feeding back those outcomes around decisions and also reusing them potentially in later decision-making cycles. So geo-spatial, a world of opportunities, many, many drivers, very difficult to do but we've had a gate and the product has just launched. What's next? Because the time has just come wrong. We're putting it out to users. We'd expect about 50 organisations to be using it by next year and that represents many thousands of admins in the hands, yeah, in public institutions essentially. So it could be very interesting next year. I've got many of the time by about 10 seconds. It's tough. Five, seven minutes don't work. That's accepted. There we go. Thanks for listening. Thank you very much, Ben. Yeah, you're already about 10 seconds over so we'll give you that. That's not a problem. The reason we are doing these very condensed talks is because I think a lot of us are quite bored of lengthy presentations over Zoom at this point, so snappy seven minutes if we think it's the way forward at the moment to make sure we have lots of content. Just being rude, I do apologise. It does make sense. No likes for base speakers. But, you know, Ben, if you are lucky, I will plug in the podcast that D-Loave do later on. Fantastic. Okay. Thank you so much for that, Ben. That was super interesting. And we are on to our next speaker. I've lost my note. Sorry. This is not a live sorry. This is not a live presentation. I'm sure a stress that is with us. This is actually a recorded video that she has provided for us in case the internet wasn't quite up to scratch. So this is from Kathmandu Living Labs and this is looking at the effects of open sweet mapping on the methods themselves. So please take it away. If I say that about 7 million people around the world are being affected by a certain something, but we don't know what exactly these effects are, isn't that feeling a little unsettling? That's exactly the case with OpenStreetMap. We know it's amazing. We know it helps us. We know there are a lot of people involved, but we don't exactly know how it affects the people working on it. Hi, I'm Oisharya Shrestha. I'm a research assistant at Kathmandu Living Labs and today my presentation will talk about our exploration into the effects of mapping in OpenStreetMap on its mappers. So Kathmandu Living Labs is a leading civic tech company that has trained and engaged thousands of people in mapping their local communities in OpenStreetMap. Our post disaster response after the 2015 Nepal earthquake is still recognized as one of the most successful use cases of open mapping in disaster response so far. At the social enterprise, we provide data and technology to benefit the society. This research is conducted under the pure science project. It is funded by USAID and is managed by National Academy of Sciences with scientific input from the US National Science Foundation. We started this project back in December of 2016 to understand the phenomenon of open mapping. We use action research methodology to generate scientific knowledge while expanding mapping. We have a small core research team. We have Nama Rajputathukhi, who is also our principal investigator, is the founder of Kathmandu Living Labs and is a director of Humane Terrain OpenStreetMap Asia Hub. We have Nancy Erstein, who is our US partner. She's also a professor at the University of California Davis. We have Chiti Khanal, who is our former research assistant. He is currently a PhD student at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Apart from us, each and every member of KLL have more or less been involved in this research. In simple terms, OpenStreetMap is just like any other regular map, except that it is open sourced and the data is crowdsourced. The crowd of OSM has been successful to form a community and ecosystem of its own. This community currently has more than 7 million registered members who are directly or indirectly affected by OSM. This number also makes it one of the largest volunteer geographic information projects in the world. Within the OSM community, these people contribute in multiple ways, the edit maps, the onboard newcomers, the develop applications. However, within the OSM community, these activities, specifically OSM mapping, is tied to humanitarian causes and is mostly regarded as a form of volunteer service. However, recent studies hint that the experience of mapping could actually be as important as, if not more, as the data that is contributed. From KLL stem our curiosity, we began to ask, what are actually the effects of OpenStreetMapping on the mappers? For our study, we chose this youth mapping internship, digital internship and leadership program. We chose this program for its inclusiveness in terms of academia, gender and locations that the participants came from. We had a total sample size of 40 mappers. The mappers were trained in person for four days after which they mapped rural Nepal for three months. During this internship, they wrote blogs and after the completion, wrote a report. These reports and blogs were analyzed to inform our findings of the immediate effects of OSM mapping. Sure, we found multifaceted effects, irrespective of differences in gender, or academia, or professional backgrounds. Our first finding was effective learning, which comprises of learning related to learners' personal feelings, attitudes, perceptions, and emotions. Mapping is such a phenomenon that even one person can contribute data that can create huge impact. Mappers note exactly that. They realize the individual power to bring a change and hence develop self-efficacy. For example, Akriti here notes that her experience of mapping helped her better understand the incredible reach of just one person's contribution in OSM. Similarly, as Mappers mapped, they are also inclined towards OSM ranking. Hyonima says that the day he was ranked top mapper of Nepal was one of the happiest days of his life. Similarly, Mappers also developed a sense of identity towards being a part of the OSM community. Akriti says that the most immediate outcome of the whole mapping internship for her was being recognized as a mapper in the OSM world community. Next, our finding was technical skills and digital literacy, which was kind of given. Since OSM mapping is a technical process and the mappers are continuously involved in it, evidently they develop an improvement in the technical skills and digital literacy. Sri Krishna here says that as he was mapping, he got more handier, more comfortable with open source software. Next was cognitive skills. We had not seen this coming. Mappers reported that as they were mapping, they were learning decision making, critical thinking, analytical thinking, spatial thinking as they were mapping. So Abhishek here says that as he was mapping, he was developing critical thinking. He was being aware of the subjectivity of data. So this might be in part because of all the inquisitive process of OSM mapping. Dakshita says that as she was mapping, she started looking around and noticing places that she probably would have ignored earlier. Our next finding was geography-based knowledge. So when mapping, mappers noticed the different geographical features and structures and relate the lives of people living there. For Ashmita, mapping was like getting a virtual food of different parts of Nepal, which helped her to visualize the different living environment of people and their access to various infrastructures. Similarly, mappers also developed their knowledge of the use of maps. Here, Sri Krishna says that he learned about the usefulness of maps in terms of governance and infrastructure and disaster preparedness. Professional skill building was another possibility. The mappers, all the way from different academic background, could relate their academia with OSM. For example, Akansha with crisis management, Dakshita with architecture, Abhishek with disaster management and sustainable development. To conclude, we noticed multiple skills like effective, technical, cognitive, geography-based, professional, different skills developed by OSM. However, there's still a huge scope of investigation and undoubtedly other categories of benefits that are yet to be identified. Thank you. Thank you very much for that, Ashbora. That was really interesting. And I think it was really nice actually to sort of reflect on the positives that people participating in this kind of civic tech get out of the process and how easy it is actually sometimes to actually bring about change. I think we all know the science that says, you know, if you can see that you've made a change, you're probably more likely to make effort to do so in the future. And yeah, really great to see that evidence happening in Nepal. So thank you very much. And thank you also for putting together the video at such last notice, like minute notice as well, to think haste. So thank you very much. Moving on, we now have Nadia Bovinska from OpenUp Ukraine talking about open data for local self-governance learnings from five Ukrainian cities. Over to you. Thank you. I will share my screen and I have my seven minutes. So let's go. Yeah, my name is Nadia. I'm from Ukraine. And I want to share my experience project manager of Geospatial Systems Development for Ukrainian cities and how we managed to a bit combat corruption and establish efficient government governance there using geospatial data and geoinformation systems. And to start, I want to share like the basic explanation of what does it mean, geospatial systems, geospatial data is something that computer-based that helps, for example, if you're talking about government to collect, store and then analyze and visualize spatial data. Because our government, they have plenty of information about objects, about something which you can identify as special. And to understand geoinformation infrastructure, we have to understand, for example, if you work with government city, what kind of technical equipment does government, local government, for example, have people are working there, what kind of competences they have, what kind of institutional capacity they have. We also have to understand what kind of data do they have, like initial data, raw data, whether it's a good or bad quality, accuracy of this data, completeness of this data. We have also understand how the business processes are working in government, what kind of adopted and working in government amendments needed or new legislation is needed for building good GIS infrastructure. And we also have to have some technical equipment and we have some software for maintaining and implementing geoinformation systems. So we've worked with five cities, they are from different parts of Ukraine, cities with different data quality, like servers, some of them they didn't have any servers for implementation geospatial information system, some of them had GIS specialist that could develop some layers for GIS, some had no people for doing that, or have some minor qualified specialist. Some of them they already had some geoportals, but it was mostly just for publishing data. We mean by GIS is not only to publish data, but also to have all registers led in this geospatial information system. So we worked on five main data layers and data sets. It's about investment proposals, common property, land disaster, advertising plans, and we also worked on budget because it's something that we can identify with just special data. And what kind of approach we chose is, first of all, to understand what kind of capacity does each government have, for example, why do they need this geoinformation system? For example, if we're talking about common property, maybe it's for making this property be governed more efficient and increase income from taxes on this property. We also worked together with local government to create terms of reference for equipment, procurement, and for software development, because in some cities we had to buy some servers or some computers for them to sustain and maintain geoinformation system infrastructure. We also worked on software development, tested it, and we chose a test development, test demand development approach that we developed some piece of software and we tried to test it together with local government to not make changes at the end. And we also, as I told you, we also worked a lot on legislation to to settle all the changes of the business processes inside the government on legal basis that, for example, local officials, they have to work in these geoinformation systems according to the legislation, not because it's like somebody's will. What kind of problems have we faced during the implementation of the project? It's that there is lack of or no data infrastructure on the local level. If you're talking about national level, it somehow can be. But on the local level, it's really hard to with data and understanding what do they need. Data, many registers are on the paper, very low level of data culture in general. A lot of resistance, of course, because what does it mean geoinformation system is that you not only can, for example, understand about the, for example, communal property, but you can go according to the geospatial data and see whether it's communal property there and what kind of state of this communal property, for example, or how much budget money were allocated for this communal property. So a lot of resistance where we got something new, it's something complicated, then people used to work with. It's about also corruption in governmental IT means that many, many people like to buy some software from their people and to get some cash back for that. And when you come to the city and propose some open source software, for example, and with low level of payments for development, they just they don't like it because they are used to working in this playground. And they also like to play for time. It means that they just yeah, we'll do it, we'll do it, but at the end they do nothing and it causes a lot of nerves and tension to make them work. But in any case, it takes us almost half a year and we finally we developed geoportals and general information systems for a local government. And we, for example, I show you one of our geoportals, it's for the Tomer CP console. So you have access here to map and you can see all layers on the map and you can also see data sets. You have access to data sets via API and these data sets are integrated with different open registers in Ukraine and you can also combine different layers to see, for example, how much money allocated to different other objects and layers. So and we created this ecosystem for further development of transparency and openness of Ukrainian cities. Thank you. Thank you, Nadia. And yeah, looks like a really great tool. And I'm sure lots of people on this call will have experienced some of those themes you talked about dealing with government as well. So yeah, great. Thank you very much for that. Moving on now to our fourth presentation. We now have Janet Chapman of Tanzania Development Trust, Crowd2Map, talking about digital champions, community-led development monitoring in Tanzania. So Janet, over to you. Thank you very much. So I'm the chair of Tanzania Development Trust, which is a volunteer run charity that's been working with grassroots organisations in rural Tanzania for the last 45 years. And these are our priorities. And about five and a half years ago, I realised that the fact that rural Tanzania was really poorly mapped was a huge issue. So I started Crowd2Map, which is a volunteer run mapping project that has over 16,000 online volunteers mapping into OpenStreetMap for community development, but also to help protect girls from female genital mutilation, which is an issue in certain parts of Tanzania. So we're working with FGM activists like Hope for Girls and Women who are doing outreach work and protecting girls from FGM, particularly during cutting seasons. Most of much of rural Tanzania looked like the map of the top in Google Maps, but also in OpenStreetMap, which is what we're using. There's been a lot of mapping that's taken place in urban areas such as Dar es Salaam, particularly around flood resilience and also access to healthcare, but much of rural Tanzania still looks like the map at the top. So we're mapping into OpenStreetMap, working with activists on the ground, youth mapping chapters, but also remote mappers. So if anyone's interesting in helping us, please do get in touch. So we're tracing roads and buildings from satellite images, as you can see here, and then people on the ground in Tanzania are adding their local knowledge, such as the names of places and so on, using various tools, particularly Maps.Me, which is a free app. We're also, where we can, we're adding open data, such as school and clinic locations into OSM. So here you can see some volunteer mappers adding their local water point. And we've been training activists and the police to use downloaded maps on Maps.Me to very quickly rescue girls at risk of FGM. So particularly during the cutting season, they will get a phone call in the middle of the night saying girls are about to be cut at Bansha Bansha Village. There's no street maps, there's no street lighting, and it was very difficult for them to get to the precise location quickly, particularly at night. So using something like Maps.Me with the map data that we've added was really useful, and we estimate that over 3,000 girls have been rescued from, prevented from being cut this way. We also set up a network of digital champions in each village, so they were selected by the villagers. They were somebody who was part of the Women and Children's Protection Committee. They'd never used a smartphone before, they've never been online. So we've trained them into using a smartphone mapping their village, but also reporting gender-based violence using a free app called ODK. So here people are looking at a map of their village for the first time and working out what still needs to be added. And there's a lot more information about these digital champions on our websites if you're interested. So they had training on various ways of using their phones and how to use ODK in Swahili. So they had some in-person training, but also ongoing training because there's basically no budget for this via WhatsApp groups and so on. And now they're getting involved in more general monitoring of progress towards the sustainable development goals. So they're involved in a research project which is looking at access to health on a village level. So these are some of the pharmacies that are available in the villages where they are because we believe that the SDGs are best implemented when we have data village by village, etc. So we've started a project this year in Matari Village. So on open day-to-day in March we had a session where we had a discussion around the SDGs and which were the most relevant to their community. The things that particularly came up were access to healthcare, clean water and better roads because the roads are very poor. And then the idea now is that going forward we will do a sample every six months to track progress. So that's a quick overview of our project. As I said it's an entirely volunteer project. Anyone can help who's got an internet connection. So if you'd like to join us please get in touch and I will send you more details and it will be great to get people's advice. Thank you. Thank you so much. That's an incredible, incredible project and I think everyone here can agree that it's a fantastic initiative. Very, very humbling I think. I can remember the mapping situation not being great the last time in Tanzania but shamefully I was only looking for a karaoke bar. This project is really, really worthwhile so great to see that going on and yes encourage anyone interested to get in touch and offer their services. We have one last presentation now from Peter Kemp, planning at the Greater London Authority on visualising the future. How 3D imaging helps residents understand the proposed changes. I don't think I can actually follow some of those presentations. In particular the Tanzania one I think that actually a lot of the work that we do is not quite as impactful. So I'm really sorry if this is a bit of a downer at the end. That being said the subject I wanted to talk on was some of the work we're doing around playing with 3D data to try and unlock the potential for London and the principle here being how we engage London is in the planning system. I wish to try and include this slide at the start just to kind of highlight that our involvement in the digitisation of the planning system in the UK is for a number of reasons including around business process and resident engagement and actually trying to monitor what's changing so that we can use these as levers to increase delivery. So why is this challenge so dramatic? Well pre-coronavirus in practice we were about as populated in London as we have been at any time in history rapidly heading towards 9 million people in the great London area and that excludes quite a lot of the suburbs and some of the small towns around it. So we've got quite a challenge and with growing city how to house all these people and how to use a planning system in a way that engages people in the decisions that they make. So at the moment the planning system kind of hides a lot of stuff. I don't know how many of you have ever tried to engage with a planning application. I just thought I'd take a snapshot of one here. I didn't deal with the application I used to live a few doors down from it but you kind of have to have quite a lot of technical knowledge before you can realistically engage with understanding how a development affects you. So first of all you need to be able to understand how to access data. Secondly what that data really means and then thirdly how that do do some form of visualisation in your own mind to try and work out how it might affect you. And that's quite a long journey to go on for an individual just trying to access the planning system and trying to control the environment they live in. But it's not just individuals like you and I. We also have elected members in here as well that are being forced to make some quite complex decisions with very limited understanding of a two-dimensional plan and how to model that in your mind. Just to touch on other digital platforms for a moment because as always when you move into a digital space the transfer as we're starting to discover of visitors to any digital platform to actually making any meaningful comments on a development proposal is shockingly low. Six percent that's six percent of the people that could be bothered to look at a platform before they even decide whether they want to make any comment on it. And that was with quite a lot of our intervention to get them to make comments. So we can see that the system in itself doesn't work. A lot of people argue that the planning systems break and I actually argue that the planning system could just be better as good all things. So the space we're working in is slightly more complex. The use case for moving the planning system in London to a 3D environment is actually threefold and each one builds on their own. We have taken the view that residents sit at the heart of the use case. Residents involvement in the planning system is one of our biggest drivers to play in this space but secondly that then informs decisions we can make so we need this data set to really drive that and then thirdly that will drive innovation. So to build this theory we put out one of the proposals for the Civic Innovation Challenge which is a challenge that's funded and supported by the Social Tech Trust and Microsoft and then funded by the Mayor of London. Really interesting space to work in because SMEs get the opportunity to do all sorts of things. The successful, gosh that's really blurry, I didn't realise the resolution was so poor, the successful party in the challenge would put forward a proposal as to how we use 3D data in an open source platform in a way that might enable residents to be able to access it and use it. Now that was just the very start of the journey and I put this image up here because we played with it in a number of different ways in the process of building the platform but 3D repo with successful people and they developed an open source platform that enables users to put their own data on there and then we went on a journey about what that really meant in terms of the user interface. So in an ideal world we had this model that would enable people to wander around, stand on their balconies, have a look at the scheme from any particular angle. You've all seen a lot of these fly-through and exciting things but when we went to build it and this is where I discovered that we have got to play, we discovered that that was too much for a lot of users. A lot of users were really struggling with this interface where they could actually do lots of things. So we started to develop an interface that enables the party consulting to take users on a journey and ask them questions about specific aspects of development proposals and this in itself we've been testing has been really achieving different responses because that 6% actually don't go any further on the journey unless they've already answered something so that percentage increases dramatically. Oh this is where we discover my screens freezes at this point. That's really clever isn't it? But there's a number I'm going to have to stop sharing and reshare there we go that's a bit clever of me but there's a number of really important learning points that we have from here which I will try and very quickly share and I'm sure you'll forgive me 10 seconds extra. What have we learned? Well first of all in the digital space we've learned that residents aren't necessarily ready for digital by default and then in testing expect some really bizarre outcomes. One of the big outcomes was one of our users tried to test using a Raspberry Pi I didn't realise people still use them. Secondly around users they all liked all these fly-through things but actually a resounding response was very much that people wanted to stand on the street and experience a development as they actually would experience it. They weren't interested in this high level thing and then developers wanted real certainty as to the accuracy because they were concerned that as users could theoretically stand on their balconies they can actually understand development in a different way and that might trigger different responses. There was other really kind of interesting things around tech and we had to think about multiple ways of addressing issues but more importantly our argument is about the future which is about the future needs to really focus on open source technology in this space and open data which leads on to our next big steps around procuring open data for London because it will then achieve a lot of that innovation space that we're trying to get into. So there we go I'm gonna stop there. Thank you Peter that's a very big job I think reforming the planning system and whilst I think you are very right you know your mum our mum should be able to use this tech I think we need to be very careful these days because all of our mums have learned to use Zoom and or everything else on the internet over the last year so goodness knows what we're letting ourselves in for. Brilliant thank you all all of our speakers lots of really really interesting presentations very varied very geographically diverse so yeah thank you to to Ben folks from Doolib, Ishvara Shrestha from Kathmandu Living Labs, Nadea Bhavinskar from OpenUp Ukraine, Janet Chapman from Tanzania Development Trust, Yunshen from Gov.zero and Peter Kemp from Planning at the Great London Authority really really appreciate you taking your time to share some of your work with us and the wider tech tech community. I know we've got various different questions that have been put on the chat so we'll be forwarding them around to you very shortly we will hopefully be able to send out your answers to all of our delegates here within a couple of days. I think someone asked about the availability of the recording on the chat yes we will be making that available again hopefully towards the end of the week. I think that's everything we've managed to keep to time in fact we are four minutes in the green so well done to everyone thank you for keeping to time. I think all there is for us to say is again thank you all for attending we really appreciate it we will be running another series of events in the autumn so look out for those on our Twitter feed but otherwise thank you very much and we hope to see you again soon.