 Welcome to the Wednesday October 3rd meeting of the Amherst Planning Board So our first order of business as approval of minutes and we have minutes from August 29th We had a full house everyone was here any motions Wow tough crowd Move the minutes be approved your second There's a Do Maria So there's a motion a second any discussion. Yes I want to take the opportunity to thank This breaststroke for such a careful Retelling recounting of my concerns about the letter that I'd written and some of the issues that I had raised And they were very well interpreted and I appreciate that. Thank you very much. Thank you Very none all in favor raise your hand Opposed Abstention you know Moving on to number two planning and zoning zoning subcommittee report So I guess this is the main event tonight We're going to so we we've told you last couple meetings that that we are That is the zoning subcommittee is planning to compile a list of Zoning topics zoning amendments Fixes planning issues that we would like to present to the town council to help them Collect their thoughts and figure out how they want to proceed or what they want to prioritize As far as planning and zoning is going forward and we want to do that with You know, we want it to be a planable report on these only subcommittee report So we've started We have listed outstanding zoning issues Issues that we've been working on and and whether they've come up in recent years Planning department staff has also been compiling a list of issues we are we are We have a preliminary Prioritization of the issues that the zoning subcommittee has come up with in in this color chart and then there's a list the list That the staff has put together now before I before we Go into that. I want to also make a report about a Discussion we had with Carol Amish who is a planner in Northampton about how Northampton handles Planning and zoning issues They're obviously a city form of government So they have they have a different process than we have had for many years and We wanted to learn from them about how our process might change how How we do Zoning amendments might change as a way of informing this Report and and how the planning board works going forward and so It was a very interesting discussion we learned a lot I think The playing board in Northampton does not have a standing zoning subcommittee and as a result I Think Much of the of the planning initiative or zoning initiatives come from staff staff develops them and Brings them either to the planning board or to the council directly in some way and then and then ultimately When it comes to council the council immediately refers it to the planning board rather or not it came from the planning board and And then the planning board and a subcommittee of the council holds the public hearing the mandatory public hearing before the council itself votes on on a zoning amendment Staff the staff process is Is Driven or or the staff is working off of a list or a Framework of zoning changes that was developed As a result of their most recent Master plan process. So when they when they wrote their master plan They immediately established a an ad hoc committee including members of the planning board and members of the council and neighborhood stakeholders and and others to to develop a list of of zoning initiatives suggested by the master plan and They were for I think two years or something and they they made this list and then Since then the staff has been has been working through the list and and then obviously also Reacting to things that that have come up over the years integrating that into into this plan into this work list and so So when they bring They don't have to bring Proposed zoning amendments at any particular time They're not working on it on a twice a year time meeting cycle and they have the flexibility to To massage Language as as you know in reaction to to how council responds to to a zoning proposal or how the planning board responds to it so so they they bring things basically when they think they are ready and But they also they they try not to bring something every week And they they try to you know bring a couple at once so that so that they can have The council's attention on zoning for you know a few articles or a few amendments So it's you know, that's in some ways. That's that's similar to the way we have been working We would bring a few Articles at a time But we had to wait or we had to hurry up and finish At certain deadlines in order to be ready for for town meeting. So so that part is is different and and Presumably will be different for for Amherst going forward So That's Sort of Introduction to to a discussion about that we might have about how we think Like to pursue zoning changes or planning initiatives with council Going forward We don't have that is a zoning subcommittee doesn't have a a specific recommendation About whether we should continue to exist Next year Of course, we don't even know who's who's gonna be on playing board here So so you know this this this discussion, you know, maybe for not knows So in any case In some way The town will will have to continue to plan and to make zoning changes to to Fix things that aren't working or to encourage this or that activity and so We have started developing this report that we're going to Present So I guess I want to I want to briefly look at what we have prepared so far The first one I want to look at is is this chart. This is a We realized tonight that this is sort of a big picture View of of zoning issues in town and we've divided them into into five broad categories and then within those categories we have Assigned three tiers of priority to issues within those categories This is just our our first Look at it We would like to hear from you about, you know, whether we've got this generally right whether we've got the right categories Whether you've got the right tiers Whether we have the right items in each of the boxes So So each of these items is is you know, many of them are are vague This is for instance the first Item under downtown town center is form-based code We do not have a proposal that That the council might look at But its appearance on this chart means that A downtown issue that the council should look at is is Developing a form-based code for the downtown in some way in some process And there are and so you can see that we have a Number of Issues under each of the other categories some of which we think are are very important and some of which are Important but not as important Yes Yeah, I guess I would say desired is these are the things that we think are The most important things that that people are most interested in Things that that are that would be most helpful for the town To to work on So there's to come out like desire or less or important less important But also like a short-term goal long-term goal like yeah, okay. That's a good question. So so yeah So we I don't think that this reflects Any idea about timeline shorter long-term? There might be some things that are long-term in the blue row might be something that are short-term in the blue and so on that is not something that we have Attempted to to delineate at all So would you put something like a note at the bottom saying that like if you were going to give this Present this It's just it's the first thing. I thought like well. What is the parameter of these three the blue? Or I didn't even know if it was important so it could have been I don't know was there some other Genres that you were nothing to me too So to accompany this We are also anticipating providing some text Some short description of what each of these things mean why they're important. What might be done? I Think I Think that we are these my my initial reaction to that Suggestion about about short long-term or what what schedule we might do this on is It's not something that we would address It's it's something that we would like the council to help us address or maybe to address for us do this But don't do that Or or they might say you know do whatever you think is best they might they might they might put it back On our in our plate. That's that's that's fine. We don't know what the process is going to be This we're helping We're helping the council and the town and the planning board figure out what the process should be By providing this report I think So in addition to this chart and our text that hasn't been developed yet the staff has also Compile the list as we were working tonight. We realize that there are some of these things that are on the staff list You know are already on our chart Some things that are on our chart Maybe more appropriate on a staff on the staff list the staff list we realized Was often concerned with specific issues details Technical fixes what used to be called technical fixes And so and so we are we are imagining now that there will be two charts one Based on this that is sort of a big view And in a second chart similar to this that has Specific items smaller items detail oriented items that That can be worked through by staff or by the or by zoning subcommittee if it exists and Just just turn through in some Priority, you know, maybe we would prioritize we would categorize This list and then also prioritize it similar to this We realize when we did this that some of the things that are on this list were Particularly things that we had on in the green row here were were things that that were Were Important because they they they addressed a specific issue that has come up For instance in the zoning by law repair the fourth row or the fourth column the last row farm related amendments Farm stands breweries events things that that That people want to be able to do on a farm but but our zoning by law is sort of vague on them Or they can't doesn't allow them or or whatever It didn't it hasn't risen to a priority for the zoning subcommittee in in so many years But the staff is hearing from farmers and other people who want to be able to do things so So when we did our initial chart We didn't think it was we didn't feel that moved by it but But if if people are continually bothering the staff and it probably is something that should be addressed So so we are we are We have proposed or we have suggested that we move those kinds of items onto a different chart And then and then prioritize them in some way and so these two charts can be used together or separately Is our Is our thinking right now? so I guess what we Would like now unless unless I've left anything out people should I'm in is is a Discussion along the lines that that I've been having with Christine about about some of these things Questions about why we did this or why we did that? What does this mean? You know we should have that discussion to inform a future revision of Either of both of these charts and to inform our development of The text that will accompany this And eventually maybe the way it is presented to the council By the way, we are not we are we are We are planning to Or we hoping to have something ready for the council within you know the first Few months of its business not right away We're not aiming for December Raining for something like February or March or something for this, but we have no set deadline So there's no there's no pressure I'm curious. Thank you so much, and I'm curious because I can never keep track But who's on a holdover appointment so we go the council will go from nine to seven When the council seated so in December So who who are the so I'm on a holdover and you're on holdover is anybody else So there's just the two of us. So the assumption is that we're the two that So everyone else remains until their terms expire and then they can apply if so desired to Remain on through whatever process town council so we'll have a lot of Continuity institutional So then the council itself of course will be come some people who knows what that will be But it could be people that are brand new to government and the other people That are not brand new so there's going to be a mix. I don't know. I don't know how the cards will fall so it'll be interesting and the town council itself Can generate or propose Zoning by-law changes that then still have to be vetted by a planning board and then back to the town council for a vote I guess right, that's another another thing that we learn from the Northampton Planner is that It's not a common occurrence, but sometimes a council member will write their own zoning proposal and presented to council So and that's that's different from From what we've had before where a citizen we had we've had petition articles, but it still goes through a process We could still have there still can be citizen. That's true. Yeah Interesting I Mean I think it's a really interesting list and so I From coming from the position of the planning board kind of know the subtext on most of these And so they guess the question is how much subtext Can you even do to you know to explain so some of these are based on? Articles that have been proposed and didn't make it and others are based on sort of new ideas that have come up Some are actually based up on it seems like ideas that even come up during the You know sort of the charter Question during this during the last year, you know there while the charter questions been in the news Some of it is by state law marijuana. Yeah, I Wasn't here for a lot of the background on this, but we basically pulled it from reports from like 2006 you know a long time we pulled series of staff reports and yeah the most recent articles and It was a huge laundry list and basically through Maybe a couple subs Is that any subcommittee meetings we started with a chart that was already created similar to this and just you know Place them from just discussions and just sort of prioritize them by voting And then we wanted to see if you guys agreed on our prioritization or if they're missing Categories or missing, you know pieces, but yeah, we basically took Over a decade It's like the yearbook So one thing that is I'm gonna try to see if this one made it on the list, but there's So if you read the blogs and letters to the editor and body law number of occupants for Family sizes that's not on here. Yeah, could be it's hard. You know, it's hard to I'm sorry, Christine. Go ahead. I just have one that I want to ask about I noticed It's not on the staff list, but on the subcommittees list Second column the blue last one says parking requirements Parking your idea to my heart the municipal parking district. I would think really needs to be looked at I don't know if you were meaning that or other things and Chris is here. So what are her thoughts on that? I notice it's not on the staff list so I think I've been hearing a lot about parking lately, too and the Municipal Parking District was created in the 1960s and then it was Revised somewhere in the 80s. I believe and then the last revision occurred in 2008 and that was before we really Experienced a lot of development in the downtown and The reason that we established the municipal parking district was to allow development in the downtown and now we've seen so much that we may want to Look at it again and figure out, you know Do we really want to allow these buildings to continue to be built without any on-site parking? And if we do want them to include parking in their plan, how much do we want? And so these are all questions that need to be Worked through But it also applies to parking in other districts. I think the planning board the planning board has a very Good way of negotiating with developers to figure out What the appropriate amount of parking is on various sites in the outlying areas and I think That the zoning by-law hasn't necessarily kept up with the planning board's thought process The zoning by-law still requires two parking spaces per dwelling unit and sometimes that just doesn't make sense fortunately, there's Kind of a stopgap at the end of the of the chapter 7 of the zoning by-law that allows the boards and committees to modify Those specific requirements, but it is a step that you have to go through. So just looking at the whole parking issue in general I think would be a good idea, but specifically Starting with the municipal parking district And so some of these are so there's only by-law like for regarding parking There's only one, you know instrument. I mean we obviously deal with parking and it's municipal parking district seems like an obvious target, but centralized parking is such In other words Maybe the good thing, you know the concept where there's a parking enterprise fund or whatever where in lieu of Providing on-site parking you pay into a fund that then goes, you know goes to a Parking garage or whatever it may be, but it seems like it's a multi-pronged thing The municipal parking district makes so much sense in many ways if you're trying to create a You know livable walkable downtown because the idea of all of that ground area being used for parking is You know, I completely know what the complaints or the concerns about the parking are but that would be Yeah, so may I say two things about that one is that we have had the experience recently of someone coming forth with a plan For development and this was for the northern part of downtown. Yeah, it hasn't really come before you in a formal way, but they did take the opportunity to Move the building towards the front and provide parking towards the rear and their ratios about one a little bit more than one Parking space per dwelling unit So that may be a direction that developers, you know are thinking of moving in but that could also be Kind of a clue to how to deal with the municipal parking district if you did want to Require parking that if the lot is big enough people can provide parking to the rear of the site And maybe they can provide some underground parking in some situations So there may be a way of encouraging developers to provide some parking not two parking spaces per dwelling unit But just some parking but the other thing I wanted to say is that the downtown parking working group is now Developing while they have developed an RFP for hiring a consultant and they're currently interviewing candidates for that position To help them to figure out parking in the downtown area to follow up on Nelson Nygaard's Report of a couple of years ago Nelson Nygaard Really only did part one of a three-part series of of parking studies that were recommended by the parking report They gathered the data about what exists in town what exists as far as Town-owned parking and what exists as far as privately owned parking, but didn't really it wasn't part of their Her their scope of work to put together a series of recommendations about what to do with that data So now the munice now the downtown parking working group is is hoping to get somebody on board who can really help them to analyze what was What was what the data that Nelson Nygaard gathered says and then what to do with it? And one of those steps may be to try to work with private parking private property owners to try to See if the town can work in concert with them to manage their parking perhaps making some of it available to the public and perhaps miss Christine gray mullin could say more about that but I Know I we could go down the parking rabbit hole very easily here but I agree Chris everything you said is great and and Like she said we're in the interview process. So Hopefully we'll have a consultant on board in about a month and as this list these lists are very long The just the parking lists are also very long So I just want to say that I'm glad to see that it's on the on the subcommittees list in the blue maybe add the actual MPD like you know that that has to be looked at but I'd I'd also like parking mentioned under the blue and the village center because I do Think right now. We've been very focused just on downtown parking But I think as North Amherst and that area builds out That parking will actually become an issue because you're going to have more nighttime Restaurants and people living there and there's people already living there. So Right, it's not just the the municipal parking district in downtown we probably do have to look at this holistically all over town so Our students are doing a lot of my students are doing a lot of research on the downtown right now because we're working on a Downtown mixed-juice building ripped from today's headlines and actually one of the groups did this, you know, basically history of East pleasant from zero as far back as I could find to maybe 19 50 or something like that. It was fascinating what they found. So the land use at 1912 Most of the land use in the downed behind the buildings in the downtown area all the way down to Kendrick plays was dedicated to horses, so it was liveries and blacksmith shops and All kinds of horse related functions So there was a blacksmith shop that they found a photo of it So what's remarkable is that this is the world the age of photography where photography was relatively common So they found a photo of the blacksmith shop. That's where Kendrick place is now So that was the equivalent of cars, you know Just a hundred years ago were all of these this horse and so all of that has either been turned down or turned into coffee shops And of course the next wave were automobiles, right? so then then the horses all went away and then that actually the downtown area became sort of dominated by automobile Related Functions the motel that was there was an auto motel that you would find out on the highway somewhere Card dealership right next to it, you know the Bertucci's so that was what our best vision was in the You know the 1950s and actually there was a proposal they found from 1990 that was For again, it's all the history of the Kendrick place So this is for like an ice cream shop with like ten parking so like a little You do creamy some of you Who said that a creamy a creamy? Yeah? So that was that really interesting that they're you know half a lot was used for parking And it was a little one-story billion because that's the only capacity they have so now we're 50 years beyond that And we have all this experience with how automobile focused businesses have problems how horse focused businesses have problems So now we're in the we're in a different world and sort of projecting ahead to What the next world is I think is really critical And I have no idea what it is Jetpacks I have one of them Drop-off pickup zones for shared ride. Yeah, absolutely Anyway, I think that the list to me a list looks great and we're responsive to some of the Petition articles like the septic system hydrology I'm wondering what would you what would be most helpful to the zoning subcommittee if we were to go through this point-by-point basis and and question or Affirm placement or whether you want to not get into that kind of micromanagement at this point I have some questions about Where I would think priorities ought to be I also have some questions about what exactly certain things mean And I don't know how to proceed about this. What what is your preference go for it? You know, what's my preference? Just do you want to just okay? Can let's look at the housing column to begin with I Don't quite know what FIR as an alternative to units per acre is Could you explain that to me so I'd have a sense of what we're talking about? Floor area ratio so it's how much building you can have as a percentage of the amount of lot area You have so moving to that away from a units per acre method of regulation was one of the recommendations in the housing section of the master plan The other question I have in that column is What exactly is the definition of a pocket neighborhood? So this is something that that the zoning subcommittee talked about maybe five years ago We were talking about small houses on small lots and pocket neighborhoods at the same time pocket neighborhood I Think the concept that we were thinking of was Multiple houses multiple individual houses on one lot or a few lots Not so so they were sharing a lot piece sharing a lot with a a single driveway or parking area or something but but Individual but individual ownership of two small lots as opposed to a supplemental dwelling It could be too, but I think we were thinking that possible, you know possibly there might be multiple, you know six seven eight houses How is that different from a cluster development? A cluster development relies on Size you can have so many per acre right A pocket neighborhood we didn't we didn't get very far with this I'm so I so I may not have a definitive answer for you, but I would I would say that that for a pocket neighborhood we were thinking of Whatever size made sense for the for the house and however many you could fit on whatever size that was I guess more imagine this is a kind of More dense neighborhood than a typical Cluster development which is which is suburban. Yes, okay, so it's in in infill in a sense. Yes, okay all right And that's sort of connected with small houses on small lots. There's really the same kind of issue. Yeah, okay I Personally, I think that along with Town houses in more zones and supplemental detached dwellings are All connected in a way, which puts ought to put them up in the blue as opposed to in the orange Because I think that if you could if we could somehow make some kind of package of all that stuff together I think that would be a huge step ahead for us I Don't suggest that anything that's already in the blue and housing should be should be pushed down at all, but I do think You know, maybe that's even connected with the 40 our district. I don't know that seems like a stretch, but That's sort of Where I come from on this on the housing lot housing column I Think it's actually very connected to 40 are potentially okay Well, then lump them all together and if you could find a way to have one title and three subsets or something like that Maybe it would be a way to present it at least Call attention to the council About what the big issue is and how they're little pieces of the big issue which could be addressed either Collectively or independently? Oh, I'm sorry. It's I don't I think it's a low priority, but Do we have zoning on tiny houses? And is that under one of these or a separate thing? You mean micro houses now tiny houses where it's technically on wheels, right? But yeah Well, I was gonna say to Michael's comments earlier that I agree that Lumping several of these together certainly make sense I think there's a certain component to this of our being accustomed to a way of working where we've been bringing forth, you know legislation of a certain scope because of the nature of the Legislative body under which we are working and I think having found challenge is bringing very large comprehensive packages And so there's I think that's one reason these are broken up into some of the ways They are and also the fact that several of these like pocket neighborhoods small houses getting to Christine's point in a second Are in there because not only have they been priorities and previous reports But we actually have drafts for some of these items pocket neighborhoods small houses and small lots and to tiny houses point Christine, you know, we have Provisions in the zoning by-law that speak to how long a mobile home And essentially that's what tiny houses are when you put them on wheels And that's how a lot of municipalities have got have regulated them and how people have chosen to structure them So they fit somewhere into the zoning because and you would know or maybe Steve would know more about this than I But a building code has minimum Square footages for occupiable Spaces square feet per person. Yeah, so so that's one issue And so the closest I think we've come to new tiny house Regulations would be the supplemental the tax dwellings which I'm not sure what square footage you're talking about out here tiny house I think like 150 to 300 maybe square feet Which is quite a bit smaller than what we've discussed and passed as far as the supplemental dwellings What what do we say about mobile homes and zoning by-law? Six months, I think You can have one for six months if you're replacing a home that you are that burned down or something like that Otherwise mobile homes are not allowed, but there are a couple of them around town that are kind of grandfathered There's one on Belcher town road I think we're an elderly family lives and they've lived there forever, but once those people move out I believe that mobile home has to disappear But there's only tiny houses around also So I'm asking for a friend Well the building commissioner has said I believe he says that if a tiny house is Connected to the ground and it's connected to utilities then it's a legitimate house And he doesn't really have much of an opinion on how big it needs to be although there are health codes about how big Bedrooms need to be in that kind of thing But it's really the issue of tying it to the ground making a permanent and hooking up to utilities That seems to be the point of contention because many people who have tiny houses don't want to be tied down to the ground But that makes them, you know subject to being to freezing and having their water pipes freeze, etc I just went to a tiny house Convention in Vermont and they're allowed in Vermont, but I think Massachusetts actually the building code does not allow them The whole state the state building code. So there's actually something larger than the town and where settings are changed in order for it to become Interesting. Yeah, but Vermont has allowed that because They're big proponents of the tiny house movement and So what action if any From us I think just be aware that this is a work in progress even the Documents you have in front of you don't represent the most up-to-date because there was discussion at the zoning subcommittee tonight As Rob mentioned about reconfiguring it So just know that right now our goal is to get something out around February and to keep refining this and building on it So one of my particular interests and I have you know, obviously many on this list is the zoning bylaw repair Expand use of graphics So parry and I went to a lecture where someone was from Buffalo who's an architect was talking about Taking the Buffalo zoning code, which was incredibly complex In doing this beautiful graphic. So it involves some changes to the zones but basically like there was a residential section and then there was a business section and And there there are the basic of the zones were nested. So you know, they had them Least restrictive and then the next restrictive and the next restrictive but it so she showed us that and we Have to get a copy of it, but it seemed like sort of a really great way of Showing a big idea and it's complicated in Amherst because it's not exactly like that in other words We don't exactly get you know, the bigger the lots get the more More or less restrictive It gets but I have been curious as to whether or not there's a way that we can approach This because it's conceptually our zoning bylaw which I've grown to love Is absolutely not copy. It's not conceptually comprehensive to someone who's not an insider. So but I would You know love to be involved in that one maybe as A past member of the planning board Does the does the buffalo Code It's the entire zoning code illustrated in this way You know, I don't know because she was showing us it was part of a lecture So she was showing us the highlight reel. So it might be just a You know just a section that she had been working on but it was it was sort of fascinating You know, I would think that would be a very useful way To approach it particularly from the point of view of the The layman who's trying to figure out what what he or she can do Maybe even a developer do is to some extent although developers tend to be much more aware of the the details and Than we are in some cases I don't remember but I think we were talking about in the sense of if you see north hampton's Diagrams about just simple things about like setbacks and the right ways I think that's what we were referring to as far as graphics, but you're trying more like zoning zone Like yeah, I just kind of rethinking the transition from the various like we know that if you go from bg to bl for example Some things become less restrictive other things become more restrictive and it's counterintuitive What happens as we change from You know one similar kind of a zone to another similar kind of a zone Nice Well, thank you. Can I make a couple more points here? I thought we were going to go through this sort of Column by column. Okay In the downtown town center column Is there any particular reason why the landscape issue is has surfaced up to the blue it seems to me that would be a Less important issue I think we were considering the downtown issues as a group And a lot are all of these really interact with each other And so we prioritize them as a group rather than breaking one out, especially form-based code for instance could encompass Pretty much everything on that list So I think we just kept them together for that reason that we see it as something that needs to be tackled in a comprehensive way Well, my sense is that the same thing would be the case with the Items that I put together suggested in the first column that the comprehensiveness Should be equally important in the first column is in the second column I take your point that they are separable and that there are already Proposals on the table in one way or another for some of those issues But if we can present them to the council As part of an important large-scale issue I think it may be more politically Astute than to try to nitpick their our way through them individually We can see there's a plan to get through three or four of these things in four years or so or whatever it takes But there's all it's all one thing as opposed to piecemeal here there I think the same thing that you're your point about the the downtown downtown center is well taken But I think both of those Categories ought to have the same kind of approach Do you want to keep going north? Do you want to go to village centers? East Amherst scanning east Amherst is near Where the Florence savings bank is? I'm sorry Florence bank is We're going to see a lot of we we are potentially going to see some development there I don't know how much but there's at least one Project that's been proposed on southeast street with you all are familiar with and I suspect when that gets going that More things will follow It's Amir mccheese. Yeah, we saw the preliminary And you know, that's That's going through the conservation commission right now And I suspect you're going to see it soon after it gets through concom So it could happen in this It could happen soon. Yeah, okay, and so that'll be a big change to that That neighborhood What happens if we go from nine to seven during the I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get to they're They're also potentially a lot of changes happening in north Amherst because You know Cole's lumber is is energetically marketing their their land up there And if we get our mass works grant We will be realigning the intersection there and The beacon project is going up quickly And we'll be done by I believe their goal is to have it Ready for next fall So Things are really moving fast there And so there should be some attention paid to north Amherst We did pay a lot of attention to it in the past when we were determining How we wanted the roadway to be realigned, but since then it's kind of Fallen off the radar to some degree Keep going Next column much. Um, we're talking about the zoning by the repair now So yeah, yeah, and I'm sorry to jump around. Yeah, how much Interest has there been in the whole farm stand? agricultural use Idea category area Yeah There's a lot of interest in it. We get people coming in fairly frequently Who own farmland? To try to figure out what they can do on their property and just some degree they're limited by the apr program, but Often they're not and they want to Grow grapes and have wineries and wine tastings and they want to Grow things that are put into beer, which I'm not really familiar with and have potentially have beer tastings and be able to sell beer from their property and Other types of things like that. So they're more more than just sort of the typical farm stand They also have talked about You know farm stand restaurants, which we do actually have a Clause in our zoning by law to accommodate farm stand restaurants, but they have to be specifically tied to Um material that's grown on the farm. So but if we want to see our farms Survive and thrive into the future. I think that we're really going to need to be more Flexible about the kinds of activities that can go on there. So We hear a lot about that There there are certainly There are even people who they want to have be able to have weddings they want to have Sort of venues on the farm Use the barns that they have and you know be able to offer them for weddings or other kinds of celebrations Art displays and and many different types of things that Don't quite fit into the bylaw right now. Are they prohibited by the bylaw at this point? Or are they just not covered? They're not covered. Does that mean they're prohibited functionally? If they're not in the bylaw, well If the building commissioner can find something that's Pretty similar, you know, he'll put it into that category, but Most of the time those things aren't allowed and you know if they're not controlled in some way They could really get out of hand, you know in terms of music hours of operation amount of parking Lighting all of those things But if you have it specifically outlined in the bylaw that this type of activity is allowed Then you can start to control it and the planning board can review a plan to allow a farm to be used as a venue and You know So if it works in the benefit of the farmer, but it also works to the benefit of the town I think So if I wanted to have a wedding in the barn of my property, I couldn't do that without a permit Well, if do you mind if I answer? Oh, no, please Okay, so if it's your family that's having the wedding, that's fine. No problem But if you wanted to rent it out to someone else and that person was going to bring in caterers and 100 people, you know, then that wouldn't be allowed. The wedding could be annulled by the billing commission But just like A one-time thing would be hard to regulate I think what you're saying is someone wants to do this As many weekends as they possibly can write it. Yeah. Yeah Well, then I think we definitely should Figure out a way to make those things possible or if we want to It just like in the I mean it just so especially across the river a lot of farms are being You see these kind of wedding operations happening and it's a way of Helping them farms stay open, frankly So then maybe that that ought to move out of the green at least into the orange We're gonna work it all and go back to two colors if you maybe even one car I wish to have green. Oh, yeah I minor on that's it it sounds like it It sounds like it is a An issue that is interesting to enough people That we should do it and not terribly complicated so that we should do it I could be wrong about both of those but right so so we actually came to a similar conclusion and In a future version of this the farm of things will not be on this. They'll be on on the other chart So and then and then so then at that point it might be on the top row of that chart The the short term yes long term right anything else Did I miss I think I noticed in the In the two-page white document. I can't find it right now something about Reviewing the master plan. Was that in there? Yeah, I'm imagining Master plan up there at the very top and that's not on the on the on the color chart. Is it? Not yet, but I will yeah next person. It should be though. Yes Yeah, but in a weird way. It's not a zoning. So these are more zoning by-law issues and the master plan is the yeah Well, it's the planning board responsibility. It is. Yeah But lots of things are In our jurisdiction that we're not putting yeah We're just this is the zoning subcommittee. Yeah Okay, so this is this is not simply another format of this And sometimes in ash sometimes they don't Yeah, we're going to try to get them together the marge I was going to suggest we move on to see if there's any public comment or not. Are you just here watching? Do you want to introduce yourself? Talking about by ways I've been sitting in on the Earlier meetings. So I was interested to hear your reaction both to the color scheme And to the list because some of that came up earlier on Which are the most important and which things go together? And how you think about it as Comprehensive pieces that if you're changing one part you want to change the other so they're complimentary and Looking at the long list the white Piece of paper which are more major that are missing from the color sheet So trying to get the bigger ideas there and then you can go into the finer points. So for example on housing inclusionary Expanding that zoning is a list at the very bottom other things on the white, but You know if that would be considered then it's going to affect a lot of the other pieces as they're moving So I think of them as moving parts of a puzzle that Is thought of in form-based zoning in another way so I was coming to Hear your reaction to the list that I've been looking at for the last couple meetings and it's been great. Thank you Should move on other And move on to old business topics not reasonably anticipated No topics New business topics that reasonably anticipated Form a's a and r Sorry Trivia be So trivia bees on october 25th, which is a thursday. Who's team last year? We did not bring home much. Sorry So, um, who's in can't make this one. You can't make this one So I'd be happy to do it, but I bring I'm bringing down the team Don't look at me. Yeah, what what is this? Yeah, yeah, that's the uh, that's the entry level to being rid. Yeah, one whenever Whenever anyone doesn't say no, they immediately get recruited Well, I'm sorry I'm not subscribing to that theory, but but what is this? Of the it's the annual amherst education foundation trivia bee. It's a fundraiser for the aef And we've fielded a team probably for eight 10 years, you know, something like that So we actually bring home we brought home Brought home the bacon. Um, we won 10 years ago or nine years ago or something Downhill since then The glory days are over Yeah, so we need a team of four We came close year before we got wiped out. Yeah So one yes What it's like eight o'clock seven thirty, I think seven thirty October 25th. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. It is fun. I knew all the 80s trivia I Yeah, now we have a good range of experiences here You had the geography. Oh, I'm a yeah geography. I mean, yeah I can only I can only do geography and zony mama You can't do it. Okay I have something But find out if jack or parry want to do it Okay, how many do you need we need for Yeah I would consider it. Yeah, I think that's a yes. We have our team We have our team. It's great. Um It's great to kind of humanize the planning board I think we need to be humanized, but I think mr. Levinstein was still checking his calendar Uh, no, I've got there's a there's a show I've been wanting to see for a while. So we got chris Maria and steep excellent You'd study beforehand. Oh, yeah. Yeah, the only way to study is to get you hope you're in the third round And so the themes for each of the questions is the same So like if there's a star wars question for someone there's going to be a star wars question for everybody else so And even that doesn't make it really easy to like there's always like a beat those question a star wars question It's yeah, you guys sure you want me because it's just not my world I don't know anything about music Useless information Okay, so I'll send the names in them Form a a and r Upcoming cba. I don't know of any Upcoming spp spr. Yes, I do know that the Building a 236 North pleasant street is coming back to you Its permits are Expiring because it's been two years since it was approved So you will be asked to approve a new side plan review application and I think the special permit for Let's see. It was for height and for setback. I believe those two things would be Renewed the special permit is going to be requested to be renewed So that should be coming. I think it's pretty soon But it hasn't come that's the berry roberts berry roberts and some way some way building. Yeah, right Interesting. It's the only one I know. Oh other than a mirrors project that that's probably coming soon, too Um Planning board committee and liaison reports PVPC anything There's a meeting next thursday So cpac is vacant to par Resign that um I asked parry if she wanted to continue because the town manager had asked me to find out about that and parry said She's got too many other things going on. So she's not able to do that. So that position is vacant So this is going to be hard to have all these committees in a committee of planning board of seven, but Agriculture commission has not met. So excuse me. Um, you would be called upon to make a nomination To the cpac. I guess we should do that now I'm hoping to skip right by that When do they meet? Don't know And so this isn't subject to the charter restrictions that no new positions can be filled Apparently they are down to they are down to two members So they need I don't know how many they need but they need more than two Anyone interested depends on when they meet on they Do they I can find out if Oh, okay, so Okay, so that means yes, you're interested or Maybe depending on how often they meet or where they I would also be interested depending on what And so just the question would be do you have to be a sitting planning board member to Is this one where you have to be a sitting require they require a member from the planning board? Yeah, so that would be Yeah, okay agriculture commission has not met design review board On nothing to report So there was An email exchange that I was part of one email about meeting with a design review board. Did that yeah So what happened with that was that the design review board was not able to meet tonight I had hoped to have that joint meeting tonight because I thought it would overlap well with the Zoning issues topic, but um, they weren't able to gather their their forces through the members that are out of town Okay, can we possibly Can we possibly schedule that for the next time we meet? That was the hope. Yeah, okay. So the 17th Yes A municipal affordable housing trust hasn't met. We'll meet next thursday And zoning subcommittee we heard that then you tech Also hasn't met haven't heard anything So when of course in the newspapers were and this is sort of related I guess is the announcement that UMass is Moving closer to a 3p private public partnership building on Near the visitor center at UMass. So do you know much about that? Yes, I know that um, they're proposing I believe it's a thousand beds of development in the parking lots that are near road shim visitor center Um, don't know how tall the buildings are going to be or what they're I think they're planning on incorporating some sort of parking structure in there, but Because they're they're losing parking spaces. Um, but I don't really know what the format exactly will be and and we've had questions about they're You know encouraging them strongly to interact with the town To explain what it is they're proposing to do and also Give the towns people a chance to comment, you know, give some input As things go on because really we don't have any control over their property. It's all in the ed zoning district So anything that's not within 50 feet of the zoning Border is not really covered by zoning There was some discussion about This same topic much earlier in the utac housing subcommittee process and a question arose and I think maybe the building commissioner brought it which was if Something on that site or a similar site were developed as a p3 and a substantial to be defined component of it was not directly related to the educational use that it might Be required to comply in some manner with Town zoning this does that ring a bell or has there been any discussion about that? So we had had that discussion early on when we first learned that the university was interested in p3s um, and we did get advice from town council from joel bard that um, it really wasn't What should I say? I'm not exactly sure what word to use but it wasn't going to be useful for the town to endeavor to control what umass does in the ed zone Because they're a state institution and even if something isn't you know Clearly indirectly part of their Educational mission it would be it would be perceived as being part of their educational mission because it would support their Educational mission so it's hard to separate those two even if something is developed by a private entity So joel bard really Dissuaded us from um trying to control what happens over there Interesting Oh, hi I just want to say so you were talking about by the visitor center, but I think the article also said that north village Is so that thousand bed that I don't know how you know, I don't know how they're doing it But so north village is going to be redeveloped or they're proposing to redevelop it, but they're not proposing to expand it They're just wanting to rebuild it. It's housing for um, I think it's married grad students with families or married grad students in general And the buildings are getting very old and you know kind of needing a lot of repair So they're going to do it one by one or in phases. They're not going to you know, take them all out at once But in phases they're going to replace those buildings with new buildings And so that it's going to be a one-to-one match Wow Anything else downtown parking in working group No more than what was said earlier um report of the chair the annual planning board bike ride we talked about I think before we went into session This year it was Robin me on the beautiful break on the rainy day last week and We had talked about a planning board, you know the annual planning board dinner or potluck Summer potluck summer has slipped away. So I think it would be a great idea. I can't do it until November, but maybe November when we're on this time of transition anyway would be a good time to You know to get together so let's think about sometime after and say November The second week of November, you know something like that I'll give back to you on that Oh and one more thing Is everyone should check out we have a new exhibit in the design building and I know a number of you went to paris exhibit That was there. So the newest exhibit was one It's a variation on one that I saw in new london connecticut about four years ago at the museum there. So it's an architect Who grew up in the same town where my my higginson casino is his family owns a restaurant in downtown norwich and They I'm sorry the restaurant was right across the street from mohegan sun so it's still there despite the fact that the casino was developed across the street and It's his observation of what happens when you put a mega corporation Right smack in the middle of a small new england town and what happens to that town So it's sort of fascinating the studies that he's done like what happens to all these single family houses And it's largely with a focus on Asian so The primary audience for these casinos According to him This 20% Asians mostly coming on buses from boston in new york but really from all over the northeast And many other workers are also asian so oftentimes coming straight from china so What happens then is they they need housing and they need to off on times They don't have cars they need to walk to work And so he's done these really sort of fascinating studies of what happens to like the new england split split level ranch burger When you need to house workers that work at the casino the very nearby So check it out. I'm not going to say anything more But one can't help look at the images of sort of the emerald city in the middle of a very low scale Rural area and think I've seen that somewhere before. I think it's here in amherst So you can't think of the You know the university as being this sort of rapidly growing institution in the middle of a very low scale And then all of the concerns about what happens to housing that wasn't really You know designed for certain things sort of being converted for you know multiple tenants And actually that's other issues about people in this the casino has been open 20 years And apparently in this town everyone thinks that it should be the casino that's providing housing for its workers So there are definitely a lot of parallels But it's beautifully designed open say nine to four And if you come out lunchtime, we can have lunch together May I say something about that? I went to a conference recently. I think it was last monday Anyway, one of the topics was housing and it was interesting because The person who was presenting was talking about Large institutions starting to try to provide housing for their workers And this is particularly true of hospitals because hospitals have a lot of people who work for them who make fairly low Wages and they can't afford to live in the vicinity Particularly true in the boston area But one thing they've run into trouble with is the issue of fair housing because if they Because it's hard for them to build this housing and restrict it to their workers So that's an interesting Aspect of this whole thing. I just thought I'd share that with you We can't do a company towns anymore. I guess not So I wanted to know for sure that you wanted to meet on october 17th. There aren't any public hearings that have been advertised for that night And so if you wanted to meet with the drb, that might be a good night to meet with the drb Otherwise your next meeting would be november 7th I Prefer november 7th And I think that's a good idea I think that's a good idea I Prefer november 7th And as much I mean if the drb is available, but if we don't have other agenda items I can't think of anything right now. There haven't been any a and rs that have been submitted. So So the 31st we don't have to meet you do not have to meet the 31st It's a national holiday trick or treat Okay Right and uh, mr. Shriver, would you sign these two sets of minutes? One is from august 1st And I didn't catch you as you left the room that night or whenever that that was approved So I have two sets of minutes for you to sign So we're adjourned