 Well, everybody to digital asset news. My name is Rob and there's a lot of questions going on with taxes What do I do these 1099s keep hitting me? I got to go through Celsius and Voyager and FTX and and IRC 157 all these things that are going on So I don't have all the answers for you, but thankfully I know some people that do two of those gentlemen David Kemmer founder and CEO of coin ledger and Jordan Bass from Bass Law gentlemen welcome to the show Thanks for having us Rob. It's always a pleasure to be on and we're excited to answer as many questions as we can kind of rapid fire style Exactly, so we got 40 minutes. So let's go over this stuff. First of all, if you don't know David There he is co-founder CEO I've used his product for two years straight and that's why I like to talk about it because it saved me a lot of time I am not a someone who's pours over spreadsheets. I've only got so much time left on this planet So I like using coin ledger also Jordan Bass head of tax strategy a coin ledger certified CPA tax attorney specialized in digital assets one of the accounting firm tax cryptocurrency and legal firm Bass this is bass law is a link in the description Also, if you are looking for more in-depth information and really need a lot more help and you're pretty complex Check out taxing cryptocurrency comm for the CPAs that Bass works with now Real quick before we get to the Q&A. Just so everybody knows coin ledger. This is the one I use It's very simple you import your transactions and that could be from a wallet defy or exchanges You you stick in through API's spits out all the information you need to send your CPA That's what I did took me 30 minutes my time. I started time. I ended very easy Very simple and then of course as far as integrations goes Maybe you guys got a lot. I'm not gonna go over all these but it's like a ridiculous amount and you can break those down by wallet Whoops and defy and exchange or you just do a big search right here But when you go into the program, you know what I'm talking about and then also they are a provider for tax act and turbo tax And this isn't for America International tax reporting because if you go there and click on pricing You don't have to sign up and pay for the forms You can start off with free take a look at your cost-based analysis and go from there Just so you know link in the description looks just like this me and David did a video three weeks ago We had a boatload of questions and here we go. Great. That wasn't too. That's pretty good two minutes Not bad. All right, so first things first gentlemen I'm just gonna go through this and Hopefully most these questions will be answered and if not, we're gonna leave around 10 or 15 minutes for the people To answer questions in this live stream. So first up This is for all the investors from coin ledger, which David needs to talk to I am just gonna put this out There that says that I'd say about 20% of people that watch this I Asked everybody if they would like a portfolio tracker for profits and losses Especially if you dealt across average like me and that was something that you would be interested in and about 20% of people That commented we're all saying the same thing. I really would like that portfolio tracker. That'd be great That'd be great. Here's our first question though. I just started using coin ledger this year I used tax bit last year the one issue I had was how? Crypto back credit card rewards were cataract were categorized on coin ledger. They were categorized as deposits Which would not quite be correct because when it was not creating cost basis for these rewards and was making a mess of my cost Basis if they could add credit card rewards the category that would be great. This is definitely for David David How do we rectify this is there a way? Yeah, it's a great point. Actually, we need to so I slotted that into our product development teams There is a little limitation sometimes the data we get back from the exchanges Don't label things in the way that would be necessary for us to automatically sometimes categorize this stuff So they might just be giving us the data saying hey, this is just a deposit to a wallet But we do need to give users a better way to flag things manually if they need to as you know Cashback from a credit card. So thank you for flagging that that is on the road map Gotcha. Okay. Perfect. So there is the first one and we've got quite a bit to go through. Let's see Let's see. Well quick thing quick thing to add on that. I Agree with David obviously you want to have the classification of the transactions proper But you know some of those rewards like when we have credit card rewards and we get that back That might not be income. It's a non-taxable event, right? So if you're going to then dispose of The rewards that you receive there actually may be a zero cost basis So the software might be populating that correctly, but the classification might look confusing to the user I would just add that because I know David and I actually have had some long conversations about that specifically But of course anything to clear up confusion on what the transaction looks like totally agree, right? The user wants to see it. Yeah, great. Hey Jordan, you know what let's make this crystal clear. Tell everybody what a taxable event is in crypto Well, there are a lot of them I would basically say everything you do Most likely in within the crypto ecosystem is taxable. So you have a crypto to crypto swap That's a common misconception. That's taxable. It's not just wait until we pull our USB value out of the The exchange or my wallet and send it to my bank account crypto to crypto swap taxable a crypto sale, right? For USD taxable USD purchase fiat purchase of cryptocurrency Non-taxable. It's just going to establish your basis Staking rewards. Well, we have we have some, you know Opinions that differ but most likely taxable different types of staking rewards Maybe there's a delay or a deferment in when that taxable event occurs But most likely that would be deemed to be taxable yield that people generate on chain from, you know, providing liquidity taxable event swapping an NFT for Ethereum or Tezos or whatever platform you use for your NFTs taxable swapping an NFT for an NFT very difficult to figure out what that tax is but most likely taxable So all of these things all these transactions that people enter into they are most likely always going to trigger a taxable event However, simply moving funds from one wallet to another or wallet to exchange or exchange to exchange It's like taking cash out of your left pocket and putting it in your right pocket. There's no taxable event There's no appreciation of wealth net accession of wealth is what the tax people say So that would be non-taxable There are so many different types of taxable events and there's so many different Transaction structures that are created Every day different protocols different modeling of how you want to send funds here or move funds here or get interest bearing Tokens or voter escrow tokens. Most likely all these things are taxable There's certain types of transactions where there's lock-up periods. Maybe that's not taxable. Maybe you're deferring that taxable event to a Future period but high level what people are doing day to day trades swaps one-for-one Receiving a reward or a yield staking rewards LP, whatever that is Mostly these are all taxable events. So you have to be aware of that What's gonna happen in coin ledger is you're going to have the ability to see all of these taxable events So you'll get a good understanding of what that is because they've done a really great job of automating that process for you But if you think that you executed a transaction and you think there should not be a tax consequence, I Mean you can come to someone like me and we could talk about it But most likely most likely you would have triggered a taxable event Okay So this is a big thing is moving crypto from wall to wallet not a taxable event swapping crypto is selling cryptos Using for goods and services is a taxable event, right? Yeah receiving if you're if you receive crypto as as income right if you perform a service and you receive that Yeah, it's just like receiving cash right or receiving property for for that If I was gonna give you a watch because you did something really great for me, right? That would be income to you. So it's it's similar in that respect The same thing goes for using it as an expense in a business That would be a deduction an ordinary unnecessary business deduction for sure, but individuals don't really have that Maybe sometimes they earn income from like services that they've rendered, but most of the time it's that swap It's that staking reward. It's the yield and That's pretty much it. Yeah, so before we go on to this one about Celsius earnings and taxable income Let me ask you this. So let's say that we have we have staked. We staked our Cardano We get rewards in Cardano today Cardano is worth 38 cents Tomorrow Cardano was worth 20 cents and then when I start to pay taxes now It's worth 10 cents. So as we go there and I haven't sold any of the Cardano I just have the those Cardano's what would be what it is it's in Concrete and it's laid out by the IRS that these taxable events for staking are there in stone Or is it open up for interpretation because it seems kind of tricky. It's tricky It is I would say open for interpretation in the sense that there's been no guidance With staking there's been no staking specific guidance. We've had guidance on on your jobs. That's crazy I know we've had no guidance on air drops We've had no guidance on I mean we had guidance on air drops. We had guidance on hard for us We had guidance on those property for property Transactions, we just recently got guidance on people that are trying to take deductions for worthless crypto Even if it's relatively illiquid you have to actually trigger a taxable event to take that loss We've never gotten something specific to staking. We had the Jarrett case Obviously that moved forward then it was dismissed for lack of standing because the relief that the that the Jarrett saw it was already granted to them. They wanted the refund and they got the refund So the court dismissed the case We don't have any ruling on what staking reward should be from a from a tax perspective The open to interpretation sort of thing is in my opinion if you're Delegating your assets to someone else and they're doing the work and maybe you're receiving a reward for that You know like a fee or something along a royalty. Maybe you could look at it that way That maybe you have the option to say hey that might not be income until I sell it But if you're running your own node in my opinion if you're single-side staking and you're generating this yield and you're claiming the rewards I think it's pretty apparent in my opinion that that would be income the thing that you mentioned which which We saw a lot with like Bitcoin miners for sure like 1617 18 not as much because a lot of people do the staking now Is that you generate the income at a certain price? Price fluctuates down which is the bad part if it goes up then you appreciate the value on the speculation But it goes down you've triggered the income at your I think you said 38 cents It goes down and now it's worth 10 cents when it's time to pay the taxes But you know at 38 cents You should know basically what the amount of tax that you're triggering and if you don't know then you can use coin Ledger you come to someone like me and we can model this out for you so you can withhold and liquidate Let's say 30% of that reward have it in stables or have it in US dollars to help facilitate that tax payment Because if the money goes down It's 10 cents you sell it you'll have a capital loss But that capital loss will not offset the ordinary income that you created from the yield So it's a it's a bad situation to have obviously Proper planning will not believe you in that situation, but it happens all the time and it's not just with staking It's even with the appreciation of value in a portfolio like in tax year 21 Not taking profits necessarily in terms of reserving capital for tax liability and then the portfolio goes down in value in 22 You have a tax Liability that might be in excess of what the underlying value of the portfolio is left over. Yeah, great detailed explanation Fantastic, so let's move on to this one Celsius earnings Do we have to declare ourselves these earnings as taxable income if we never actually remove anything from our account before the bankruptcy? We personally have like six figures stuck on there So I'll go back to Jordan on this one because the next one's gonna go right to David. So Jordan, what do we have here? So yeah, I think we actually kind of touched on this earlier It's like you generate the income in theory before the bankruptcy occurred you could have withdrawn those funds, right? That's at least what I think the IRS position would be so you have all this income along the way you generate this yield It is taxable. You may or may not receive a 1099 from Celsius who knows what their internal processes are gonna be for this year But you might be able to go and view that data drop it in somewhere like coin ledger and actually see what that yield was The problem is you may have something that that can offset that income We just don't know what that is yet until we kind of figure out what's going on in that bankruptcy proceeding Do we have a deduction that we can use like a non-business bad debt deduction? Is this like a Ponzi sort of laws? Is there something that we can use to offset that income possibly? But as of now you should assume that that income is taxable and take a wait-and-see in my opinion approach on what we can do with What you have stuck on the platform Gotcha. Okay. So this will we go back to David on this one since I started investing in crypto. I've used Bitcoin dot tax my taxes I love to switch to their platform but my concern is a new platform won't know what I choose my cost basis over the years Does I know if it has integration to import data from other tax platforms to inherent said data? Yeah, this is a tricky problem actually and we've punted on it for a while because it's a it's there's more Hair to it than meets the eye because for us to integrate with one of our competitors to make it easy for you to switch We kind of have to trust all of their Data essentially where we need we need your data from ground zero to really make coin ledger flow and work How it's designed to work so there is stuff we will do in the future Just we haven't spent the time to really sort through and make it easier to move from one platform to the other But of course you could still manually do it, but you know, there's not a seamless way right now So sorry about that. Yeah, I mean I'll just say like this when I first started using coin ledger two years ago I had been in the game since 2017 and I didn't file taxes on 2017 or 2018 because I had massive losses like I'll get to it at some point So I was starting with on my back foot But thankfully it all went back and got all those all those data points even Binance which when I did it They weren't even allowing American Investors so I mean it worked out for me But like David said if you have to do manually definitely can and then this would be the same question actually I've received my 1099 for interest on Celsius even though it's frozen Do I pay taxes George just to make sure I heard you right? Is this a wait-and-see type of thing or we're gonna or are we gonna say okay? I? Earned so much on Celsius so now I'm gonna have to pay taxes And then once we all figure it out in two three five years then I might get something back because they're gonna Do a haircut or do I just let it go? And sell There's a what I would what I would say in this specific issue if someone actually received the 1099 Miscellaneous from Celsius and there's there's interest that they've that they've accounted for and they've sent you the IRS Also got the other side of that right so when you file your return you have to show that somewhere else It's gonna automatically flag not like an audit, but an inquiry. They're gonna send you a letter There's a mismatch of your form that you filed for your taxes versus this form that we had We we know that there was I'm making up a number $70,000 on this 1099 miss that means that you owe $22,000 in tax plus interest plus penalties and you could take that approach where you just don't show anything But just know you're gonna get that notice. I wouldn't advise that what I would say is it Seems that we will get some clarification on the Celsius issue I believe from a tax perspective at some point this year. I'm hopeful. I mean that might be Silly of me to be hopeful in that but I'm hopeful that we'll get something So for these people if they know that it might be wise to file an extension Kind of punt it for six months until October and take that wait and see and obviously if there's income And there's no way to offset it what I would do in that situation is I would try to maybe in with the filing file Some disclosure form or some something that would be along the lines of you know seeking a waiver for any Penalties because of this issue. It's possible that you can do that but um At the end of the day most people in crypto in 2022 didn't have gains But this yeet they probably had losses, but those losses won't offset this yield This yield is a different characterization of income. So it's a huge issue. I would take the wait and see approach Um personally and that's what we advise clients to do But if there's a situation where they have to figure something out Then you will take a position that is uncertain and you might have to amend Yeah, I like the whole idea of punting just uh push it out for as long as you can and go I'm just waiting for clarity and go from there because you know, who knows I'd rather do that than have to pay a bunch of uh funds when of course i'm already out of law so Next one terra luna instead of the exchange being a limbo the coin itself crash and it's within voyager So and again, this is the same thing I mean, we know a crash, but you didn't sell it, but it's still on voyager So it'll be the same thing. Maybe you're going to get some some clarity Because but but that's just it on terra luna you It would just be because because you couldn't actually sell it at one point It would just go to terra luna classic whatever nonsense it was. So Where do we stand here jordan amen on that one? Yeah, I mean this is another this is another one of those situations where funds are locked on an exchange And you can't actually liquidate something which means you haven't triggered a taxable event Unfortunately, I think voyager there may be some light at the end of the tunnel Maybe with like a potential finance us acquisition that we've that's been being discussed So you might gain access to those funds. Maybe who knows I'm not sure but it's the same situation We have no We have no tax triggering event and it's it's the same thing that I mentioned earlier with that guidance we received about You know writing off worse worthless crypto If there's liquidity if you could have sold that token we can't just draw it down and say it's a total loss Gotcha, okay, and then here's just one more comment about how a portfolio tracker will be great. I gotta agree Maybe with a pie chart. So it's coming. Don't worry. It is coming just gonna throw that out there and then This will this would be for David. Is there an easy way to retrieve a comprehensive itemized transaction fee for ftx? Seems like they can pull the plan up. Is there any way to actually get that data anymore? Yeah, so the day we heard about ftx I think the first tweet we sent out was you should go and download your transaction history from ftx as fast as you can Or use our apis to pull that data into coin ledger. We'll house it for you Unfortunately, if you didn't do that and you're now trying to get it, you know We no longer have access to their apis. We can't pull that data for you What I would recommend is chat into their customer support team You know, whatever it is help at ftx.com or dot ux and say, hey, I need to do my taxes You guys have to pride me with my transaction history. Could you please do that? They should get back to you but oin ledger the software no longer can tap ftx's apis. They give us a response That's like, nope or bankrupt. Gotcha customer support and pray. Okay next one while irc 165 losses are where they do occur the fact that such loss were totally ignored is troubling So this would be a question for jordan. What is az money guy talking about and what do we talk? What do we need to do here? I mean, he's he's not wrong necessarily about irc 165 losses that you could possibly view this in that lens It's not like a theft or casualty loss, but it could be some sort of loss where issues with financial institutions, let's say but In my opinion, this is not something that's ironclad. I wouldn't advise a client that oh, yeah This is definitely deductible. We can do this because the bankruptcy proceeding is still ongoing So technically there's value left in there. I mean, you've heard of people selling their bankruptcy claims So it's not like that is worthless. It's not like it's totally gone. There is still something pending Can you have a deduction? I think we talked about this a few minutes ago possibly But in my in that might be the right code section to actually take a loss in the future But until we get some sort of clarity on what's going on with that proceeding I would advise somebody to sit back and take an approach of let's see what happens. Let's let it play out Can that take years? Yeah, that's true. So if we get to a point where a filing has to be made Okay, maybe we start to rely on certain code sections Maybe we start to rely on certain types of losses that we want to report on our taxes, but Who knows what's going to happen in these proceedings? Who knows if we get guidance from the irs on this specific issue? Seems like regulators are going pretty hard in the crypto industry just in general So maybe we'll get something related to these You know bad and worthless to some investments, but actually still have value theoretically from a tax perspective Gotcha, okay So it's a wait and see type of thing because we don't know what's going to happen And if is it a is it a Ponzi? Is it a scam? Is it just mismanagement? Is it just poor? Poor business practices. Okay. Yeah, so this is a good one and this is for David Does the three so does the three thousand you can apply towards income carry over from one year to the next So here's an example If I sold all my investments in December 2022 Okay, and have 50,000 losses I can apply 3000 Towards my income for taxes if everything remains the same though in 2023 Can I apply another 3000 of the 47,000 in losses meaning can these be carried over from all this time? And so on and so on Yep, exactly correct. So in that example, yes Your your capital loss can be carried forward indefinitely into the future until it's completely used up Right and it can offset against other capital gains Completely in future years. So again, if in the future Crypto goes up or you sell some stocks for a capital gain or you sell your house for a capital gain You can use those leftover losses that you haven't fully used up quite yet Against that and so then that could absorb them much faster than Dripping them out over 3k for what, you know, 12 years or so Yeah, so that's that's a that's a big distinction. I think we talked about this before There's a difference between the income what you're taxed on and your capital gains As a look that you can carry over that 47,001 fail swoop for your capital gains That only can be 3000 on your income, correct? Or is that mixed around? Yep, that's exactly right So it's kind of confusing because you have ordinary income and jordan can fill in this too, right? Which is like think of just income you earn from like w2 job Um, yeah speaking, but then you have capital gains, which if you know, there's certain tax advantages of capital gain income, right? If it's long term, it's lower tax brackets. And so those fully offset Um in the same year is capital gains versus capital losses And if you have net losses against those that's when you can take 3k against income Um, but that's the max you can take against that ordinary income Gotcha. Okay. Perfect. And then this is a good question is hey, Rob You recommended crypto trader and now you're talking about coin ledger Uh, is that why I said just you know crypto trader and coin ledger I said coin trader they were branded it to coin ledger So just everybody knows I was talking about crypto trader before but it's the same thing They just same thing you see you just outlined why we rebranded you can't even remember our name We needed we needed to rebrand to something that was just a little bit more easier and You know better brand so, you know next time I start a company I will take a little bit longer on thinking of the name because not a ton of thought was put into crypto trader dot tax And here we are yet. So I think it's going okay. Here's two questions And uh, the first one is well, okay, let me just ask you this because we talked about this before about cardano Because when I took a look at my account, I was like, hey, I want to bring in my Um my wallet from my deadless wallet and bring that into um Coin ledger Yes, and and when I did it it gave me the option for Ethereum and avalanche and a bunch of the different different chains, but not cardano So why is it that I can't do that for cardano, but I can do it after a lot of other things Yeah, so we integrate with the core block chains themselves, right? What is a wallet a wallet is just operating on top of the blockchain and many wallets like metamask, right operate across many block chains So if you go to help Help dot coin ledger.io, you know, there's our knowledge base You can see just type in block chains and we'll show you exactly which block chains we support polka dot is not yet a blockchain that we support So if you were to like look at the the wallet in the ui You're not going to have an option to bring in polka dot transactions in coin ledger yet, right? Again, we have a very large development team that's constantly trying to turn this stuff out. It just takes time Um, but hopefully that provides some clarity. So we're integrating with the block chains themselves And the wallets, you know could sit on top of a lot of these chains So if you click your wall and we don't have the chain you need quite yet Let us know that you want it first of all because that shapes our product development roadmap Yeah, you can see here's all the chains that we support right right now Um And that's there Okay, and that is the majority of the questions. So we're coming up on three o'clock. It's doing pretty good Let's uh now the most important questions the ones that are here now So everybody, thank you for submitting your questions Hopefully we answered the majority of what it was I think the big ones were the ftx the voyagers the celcius and the irc one So then we'll go from there. So let's see what we got Ah Okay, same thing. I didn't get it from ftx. What the heck? I think we answered that Yeah, I would say reach out to their support team. Yeah Yeah, this is also true Okay Serious one morton I use coin ledger one error that it has is that it does not include the fee for tax purposes on withdrawals It treats whole withdrawals as taxed exempts even the fee aspect which is taxable and we're I think we're talking about gas fees Uh going from there. So is that How does that play out in coin ledger? Will it say okay, here's the here's the fee of the gas fee. This is uh, not a taxable event But this is a a deduction and then the other parts Yeah, I actually think jordan you'd be even better equipped than I to speak on this because it gets Nuance depending on what type of gas fee and what transaction you're associating with so I know You have a lot of knowledge here Yeah, I mean it really does depend on um the transaction structure, but High level what's happening probably within the software is that there's a withdrawal that withdrawal is getting tagged as a withdrawal It's a non-taxable event if there's a fee associated with any movement on chain any movement It could be taxable and most likely always is taxable And when that happens you might have a gain or loss based on what your basis is in the underlying asset that you're using To move the funds right Can you deduct the fees at the end of the day? Not really It's not we don't really have the ability to deduct like a miscellaneous itemized deduction anymore At least for the time being when we're talking about fees if you're a business in this space those fees might be ordinary and necessary Expenses, but the fee that we're talking about or that someone's talking about here Is different than when you have a fee on a swap where you might add that to your basis of the asset that you're receiving Or you might deduct the overall proceeds based on this fee. That is very easily I believe tagged in coin ledger And that's really easy to pick up and it's included on that 89 49 form and it's included in your tax report if you have all of these additional fees from moving funds and you're saying that And in gas is is really expensive, right? And it's really really high. Yeah, is that a taxable event? Yeah, you're using the asset you're using let's say let's use a theory of for the example To facilitate the network activity has that gone up in value or down in value from the time that you bought it Maybe is the fee the us dollar value is the fee like a disposition of the property Most likely. So yeah, there could be a taxable event triggered there I think more so in david you could you could you know, attest to this It's kind of hard to to trigger that unless you Split the transaction, right? You have a fee on one side and the withdrawal on the other side, which can be done Um, but most of the time more I'd like to look at the specific transaction you're referencing So if you could reach out to me or help that coin ledger.io with the transaction hash Or what what you're referencing because we do split up all fees and so There's a possibility that some protocol you're using, you know, made it hard for us to break that out But I'd like to look deeper in it because yeah, you're right if it's like a fee, you know You're spending ethere money that is taxable So I just need to look at the transaction hash and actually see okay What's going on here house coin ledger treating this dive a little bit deeper Yeah, and it could be maybe it's a different chain, right? David Maybe it's something that um the transaction structure or makeup is not similar to one Like you said a different protocol, but on a specific chain with a newer integration. Who knows I'm not I don't know I I think that's a good idea to get that specific transaction hash from more But yeah, all these fees that we're talking about you're you you're disposing of crypto, which is a taxable event Um, it's just how is that baked into the transaction on a withdrawal? It's different than on a on a swap Gotcha. Okay. So reach out there Morton and they'll take a look at the actual charge or the Transaction and go from there. All right next one. Cody says, uh Turbo tax compatible. We're not compatible with coin ledger Uh, David, has this happened sometimes all the time every so well turbo tax recently made a lot of changes to their UI Which make it very confusing for people trying to import various types of forms related to capital gains into turbo tax And so this isn't true. Cody. I'm sorry that you ran into this problem A lot of people have been having this problem But we can walk you through the exact steps you need to take to upload our forms into turbo tax It's likely that at some point you had a wrong click Which then turbo tax is going to give you back an error But if you reach out to me or our team we can walk you through and show you likely where you went wrong We've been having this conversation dozens and dozens and dozens of times with people. Um You know again the turbo tax folks are great folks But they move a little bit slow and so they're not always fast to react to these issues either So sorry about that But they are compatible and we can help you get that uploaded properly Did you guys did you guys do a video on that one at one point? We actually just released it because we had to again update it because of kind of these changes So two weeks ago we did put out a new video that shows the new step by step process And should help not you know get people hung up on these all these steps That would be let's see I guess you guys well you guys have your own channel. So it's right. Yeah, it should be like the latest video probably right here So coin ledger and that's the one Ah, look at that things are so guys just do coin ledger a search on youtube. Actually, you know what I'll make it simple for everybody Oh, there's david Our support team was pinging me to be like all these people are having problems with turbo jacks. I'm like, oh my gosh Let me just quickly make a video Yeah How I blow up this channel and get hundreds of thousands of subscribers Oh, I'll I'll tell you how to do it super simple just show up every day and just get trolled by everybody It's very very smooth. Let's see. How about this youtube? video on turbo tax And let me separate that out Save and then what I'll do for everybody is Let me put that in the comments so you guys can find it And there you go. Okay Next one So it's from meme she says and we just we talked about this with cardano and we answered the first part So the cardano blockchain itself you guys aren't compatible with that yet. I think we talked Did you say a couple weeks soon? So we're actually now the qa phase it's uh The code is written and now we're starting to Do testing across thousands of walled addresses and bugs always pop up. So that takes a while to work through a lot of those Things but I would say with the next two three four weeks cardano will go live within coin ledger Okay, and then if that's the case, then how do we do it? If you want If you want to do it now It's going to be very manual So what you do is you're gonna have to use our manual csv format Do you kind of bring in if you're staking on cardano those staking rewards? And you know, we have help documentation on how to do this manually um And same with on the assets front Like you'll manually add those into spreadsheets and improve those into coin ledger If you have issues, please reach out to the team, you know, they're very well equipped to just handle a lot of I'm I'm gonna wait. I'm gonna wait I don't I don't we got so much time Okay, let's see a couple more Let's see That's true Well, I was looking for it wouldn't be from it wouldn't be from the sec SEC if we get guidance from the sec that'd be a bad thing. We don't want to deal with securities realm But sec is not looking looking like they like crypto right now No, they don't like it at all. I mean we heard there was a rumor going around that they stopped They wanted the usdc to be cease and assist, but I guess that was a fake Fake news, but uh, it's uh, it's an interesting time. That's for sure Let's see wait rob was trading illegally. It wasn't illegal back in my day. I'm I'm old Remember, I'm old. Let's see. Let's see Uh Crypto golfer from florida Yeah The best place to be three legends. That's right No doubt rata ate us ate us soon. What about dot david? Not currently in development, but um, the more requests we get the more incentives we get to build it, but um Gotcha, I'm also not the exact one to ask Exactly what our engineering teams thoughts on ours. They've definitely looked at it but I think From what I remember it's just a little bit more complex of an implementation to integrate with To my understanding of how the polka dot ecosystem works. So, um Let us know if you want it We have like a a board that uh, you can just request features that other people can upvote it And so that does influence a lot of our product decisions Okay, so send them a message you go what you'd like polka dot and then last one. This is a pretty good one Uh, so I plan on not filing my taxes All right I find it too much of a hassle especially since i'm dealing with voyager and celcius Would there be any benefits to not filing? I'll let anybody answer this question I mean no for sure obviously that's a bad decision, but I think if you take what we discussed earlier and you know, I said the wait and see approach That's not like wait and see and never file It's make sure you file an extension by the initial deadline So you don't have any late filing penalties because those are actually significant If you end up owing tax and you have like a late payment penalty Like I said, maybe you can get that abated if you can't it's very minimal interest compared to the late filing penalty Which can rack up like five percent per month. So you don't want to deal with that um filing extension wait and see Don't ever not file your taxes because here's what's going to happen to to the snail here The snail is going to generate a lot of money in the crypto bull market and let's say end of 23 24 They're going to take that money. They're going to put it in their bank. They're going to say, oh my gosh I need to file taxes and then they're going to have to go back and maybe file 21 22 23 And it becomes a headache It becomes a lot of money from a tax perspective to get a maybe a professional to go back three years four years to rectify the issue So it's never a good. It's never a good decision. Um, so file But wait so file the extension pieces you mentioned for your celcius keep in mind Both those companies are sending a 1099 to the irs reporting your income with your social security number your name, right? They're gonna know and you know, that's like one of the first auto detection systems that the irs is using to see Okay, we see he had this crypto related income. Is that somewhere on his 1040 on his tax return? If not automatically send him a letter. We see those go out every single year You know, maybe you'll be a lucky one, but I also recommend Yeah, and now we're gonna do this is a last last question. We I we got to get out of here But this one was there's two things first of all meme says well, how do I do that manually meme? I'm going to show you in a bit But first let me ask David this question or jordan when adding transactions to the manual template Does it have to be in chronological order? That is a great question. I believe the answer is no But I can follow up. I think as long as you have the time stamp in our excel spreadsheet That's what's getting pulled in Okay, I can confirm that. Okay, good We've uploaded data in the wrong order just from like going wallet by wallet before and as long as the time stamp is there That's where it'll show up in the coin ledger software Appreciate it Okay, and then and then ladies and gentlemen, I just put the manual csv file the instructions on how to do that There's a link in the description very simple. I'm also going to put it on the comments And that is it for today. So we've answered a lot of questions so far But this is not the end of the series. So don't worry. We're going to be doing this again because Tax time is coming up not just in the united states, but Happens throughout the entire world club. So david jordan will probably have it back on We'll answer some more questions as we get near but that is it for today. So Guys thanks for stopping by. We appreciate it. Thank you. We will see you later All right, everybody stay safe like and subscribe all that good stuff. See you on the next one. See you