 Yeah, man. We are live. It is Thursday night reality check and I am back tonight and we are gonna have a great show I've got an awesome special guest tonight actually my first guest and it's Pat Steadman Pat How you doing tonight? I'm doing great Tony. It's great to be back on here. Yeah it's gonna be a good time tonight is women in the man a sphere and I think this is a great great topic and the reason why is because I think there's been a phenomenon as of late which is women coming into men's spaces and I'll get a little deeper into that and kind of ask you your thoughts but it seems like Women are I don't want to use the word infiltrating. Well, you could use the word infiltrating or What's another good word profiting on the man a sphere right now? So I think that's a concern not to just me but a lot of other men in this space Men's spaces are sacred. It is a it is a space where men can talk about their problems I do find issues sometimes with men getting too personal about their personal problems online I don't know if that's always a good thing, but I think generalizing about basic Dating relationship things like that. I think it's important But I'm curious of why so many women are entering this space and wanting to give their two cents and Shortly too, we're going to bring on two female content creators We're going to bring on good mother Amanda and we're also going to bring on minka from better biaches So we're going to get their uh get their take on this also and kind of ask them questions So I think it's going to be fun. Also. I want to welcome everybody from 21 studios We are broadcasting on 21 actually on 21 studios also tonight. So if you don't know me, I'm tony bruno This is pat steadman also One big thing is I want everybody to sign up for pat steadman's email It's three times a week pat. I think it is three or four times a week. Yeah, it's about I promise three times a week Sometimes it's like two sometimes it's four But it's just kind of like I I only write inspired Work so I don't like I don't have this kind of like you have to How do I put this? Obviously this is a business but A lot of people put out emails and it's like everything is just it's there for the sake of being there And this email list is not that it's it's always either Either one of my really best old emails which we get one of per week And then it's usually about two to three Fresh ones that I write based on topics that are going on with clients interactions. I've been having on social media And just even stuff that I've been exploring because I'm constantly exploring the stuff So I I appreciate you saying that tony, but I I really do put Probably my most Love into my email list which you can find at pat steadman.com slash opt-in And you also get a copy of my book the three pillars of attraction when you sign up for the list just totally free Yeah, great great emails. It's it's actually my favorite email that I get there's a couple others I'll give some mentions too. I love a j. Cortez's email on physical fitness And also tanner guzzy has a great email when he does them about Basically about style and things like that. So it's kind of cool But those are probably my top three. Of course 21 studios. I love anthony johnson's emails always savage But again, I want to thank thank everybody that's here tonight from 21 studios. Again, if you don't know me I'm tony bruno. I'm just uh just a dude contractor. That's what I do and occasionally I like to talk Talk about different issues that are going on in the manisphere and other places So that's what we're doing tonight But tonight's topic is women in the manisphere also too. I want to um, I do some giveaways I'm going to do a giveaway tonight and it's uh michael fosters book. It's good to be a man So all you gotta do is check my email in the about section. I'm going to send you this book for free So, um, it's good to be a man great book I'll have foster on fact foster might jump on tonight. I don't know. We'll see but uh, I'll send you a copy of his book And I'm gonna also throw in Some grand dike soap tactical soap and a clone stick So you get a little package tonight somebody email me. I'll send it to you. No charge I don't make any money off this. So, uh I just gotta say tactical soap is fantastic. It is I'm still using some of the stuff from from 21 convention because I got like I got a bunch of um, and Good, it's good to be a man is a fantastic book michael really did a incredible job with it and uh I'm kind of a mixed feelings about whether to have michael on tonight because I'm I'm having I mean, I hope he comes on I'm interviewing him tomorrow. So I want him like save his juice. Oh Well, that's awesome. Um, okay excellent But so anybody you can get a free copy of his book. Just send me your info I don't dox anybody or anything like that. So if you want to copy of his book, send me is send me your email Um email me and send me your address or p.o. Box or something Tell me why you want this book and I'll drop it in the mail to you. That's it. So But yeah, let's get right into it women in the manisphere Pat what I want to do is I'm going to ask you what defines women or a woman in manisphere or manisphere production and content What is your definition? Okay, so I think that there's two We're going to talk about these distinctions throughout the course of the show but I think there's two very very distinct phenomena and The first one and I think this is the one that people are more irked about is the women in the manisphere who are women talking Two men about men's issues and talking about Um You know really Almost trying to tell men what they should be doing Right about about current situations about you know dating dynamics, etc And then there's the other one which is women who are manisphere adjacent And so they may be talking about similar issues, but they're speaking only to women So they're sort of more in parallel to what's going on in the manisphere Um, but they don't necessarily try they're they may be feed on male spaces, but they don't try to necessarily Talk to men and there's obviously some blur over between that you see some accounts that um Like evie magazine for instance is clearly designed for women But they do stray over into engaging with men But yeah, so I think those are the two big the two broad differences between them um I would say that The former Is where there's a lot more controversy about because these are like the women who potentially allegedly are profiting off of you know male problems and maybe distorting the conversation hijacking the conversation And much more directly taking over male spaces Are why do you think a woman would want to do that? What what intention does she have? Do you think women genuinely want to help men? I mean, this is where I have a personal issue with that like I do kind of like look at somebody kind of with the stinker like all right. What's what's what's the real What's the real motive? Okay, that okay. I came up kind of with a theory like Women are basically trying to Make up for their transgressions. Let's say Okay, that's a that's a theory that I have whether it's genuine or not So that's kind of a theory that I have maybe maybe like I've you know I've lived the whole life and now I've got to make everything better, you know um What I did notice too is I think a lot of these women are Would we say post wall? I guess the wall would be 30 So You know So that's kind of my thought like are they are they trying to give back genuinely because they fucked up or is it Is it something else? So Like with many things there's a there's a combination of inputs, but I want to go to like the substrate level first because um You know it what is what do women do in general? I mean, what was feminism all about? Women want to be in male spaces So I mean it is Natural for women at least women over the last Century, but I think it's a I think it's a It is a feature of women generally to want to be around where men are Like you notice that men have an organization There's at least some woman who's like why can't women come in here? Like I want to come in here Like because the men are doing things or having a good time, you know, they're shooting the shit. They're smoking cigars. They're drinking um locker room talk maybe but also Like that's on the low level, but on the higher level very often like planning things together You know strategizing there's um And you know dealing with maybe in certain male spaces personal issues, right? It fully changes the entire dynamic now um But women but women want to be in it because they see men having fun And they see men doing things and they want to be part of that energy And you see this literally everywhere. There is not almost a single area that women have not gotten into that And and if they haven't gotten into it, they're still complaining about not getting into it like for instance um I'm a member of an organization. I'm not going to say but it's it's it's a chapter and there's chapters across the country And we're maybe the only chapter That is still male only now. This is an organization that goes back to the 1700s and it And they're so pissed that they couldn't come to our our branch because we just keep it men only We are the most we are the most successful one in the entire country because There's this je ne sais quoi That guys can't get in general In any other domain. That's just men Being men, you know, I don't think every man is like this But if you if you have a group of 10 men it is Guaranteed group of five men really but a group of 10 men guaranteed One of these guys is going to change his behavior around women and That in like even just the presence it's I'm not even saying it's always even the fault of the woman But even just the presence of a woman changes the nature of the dynamic because men behave differently some men behave differently than other men have to behave differently because they're have to behave differently towards that man and Actually, what it does is it breaks down trust within the group of men because now you have a woman there who you know There's some sort of unconscious either some guys are like fuck because I don't want to be part of this Or there's some sort of implicit competition over the attention of the woman But the point is that women do this in every single organization and um Look, I don't blame them for it men men do have a good time You know, there's a this is like a funny thing like you talk about wives and girlfriends Like they always get pissed like if you have like the guys are over on the side and they're talking They're like, you know, what are they talking about? Like, let's go, you know, there's always like a little bit It's like like guys are watching football They're all sitting around having a good old time and now the wife brings in some drinks or something like that And everybody gets quiet. Yeah, she drops the stuff off and then everybody, you know, then it changes I mean, that's a woman can change the dynamic of Of a men's conversation in two seconds And it's usually the fault like you said, I love what you said usually like the one or two guys who like just kind of cave Yeah, won't won't be themselves anymore. But what why is that? Why psychologically does that happen? Well, I mean because they're betas fundamentally. I mean if we just want to call a spade a spade guys who Really care about the how women perceive them Change their behavior around women And today we have obviously a beta epidemic So, you know, I hate using these terms, but it it really does like how else are you going to describe it? The guys who care the least about women About a woman's validation will change their behavior the least and usually to the extent that they change the behavior it's usually to you know protect themselves against the guy Because they can't fully trust that guy anymore because of how he's acting and so women coming into the hemisphere, it's a it's a natural thing. It's to be expected and But here's the thing It's not necessarily entirely bad and I actually think It's something to be celebrated So let's so the the reason but the reason I say that is not necessarily because it's like Having women around is fantastic. Although I'm not a black and white thinker on this kind of stuff And I do think there is value in hearing female input No question about it. I mean if you don't if you don't have ever have any female input There's things that you'll miss, you know, especially when it comes to The sexual dynamics and dating dynamics, right? You let me let me just pause you real quick Do you think that That input from women That they need is lack of it in their personal life Could you rephrase that what do you mean you think the input from women like on these streams and YouTube and stuff like that. Do you think that these guys follow these women because They have lack of personal discussions with women in their own personal life You see you do you understand what I'm saying? Right Yes, so I I think that that's true I think that the real risk Is this and I think you're gonna agree with this Tony I I personally like I'm happy to talk to a female dating coach To argue about certain things to press different perspectives. I mean I'm not anti-woman by any stretch of the imagination And I'm very sympathetic actually to the female perspective. I think that women have a rough time out there Just like men do they have different problems But they you know some some same but they have a lot of different problems But doesn't mean that they're not suffering. So and I'm I'm very anti this sort of hardcore Red pill thing, which I really is just the inverse of feminism Um war of the sexes isn't good for the sexes. So just say that like I'm happy to have these kind of conversations with women I think that the the alarm bell is that A lot of guys Have Who are not remotely even They're in their masculinity They are You know, they're they are betas. Let's put it that way and They want to listen to what a woman has to say Now to a certain extent if the woman has high integrity She maybe can use that to a certain extent to her advantage in in the sense of helping the the man and but You know fundamentally I I think a lot of guys get caught up in wanting to be validated by the woman and While there are not not all dating coaches are Female dating coaches are predatory like for instance, colleague of mine Taylor burrows is fantastic. She's really like she's she's a good person. She really tries to help and I know she works with She works with women too, but she works with a lot of guys But a lot of female Women women who have come into the space are predatory and they're predatory financially And they're predatory Emotionally, you know, it's it's a way for them to get attention and to your point, you know I can think of a Of a kind and a negative in a mean way to interpret, you know The how a lot of these commentators are post-wall The kind one would be that they've had experience and maybe they integrated a little bit more Masculine energy so they're a little bit more able to talk about these issues directly whereas, you know A 20 year old woman is not going to know what the fuck's going on. She's just kind of out there The less charitable way of looking at it is that this is a way that they can get a lot of attention from men When, you know, maybe that's reduced a bit in their actual dating experience And I think with this stuff You really have to take it on a case by case basis You have to in the biggest red flag is when A woman is speaking to a man's victimhood I think that is really the biggest red flag Um Explain that a little more if you would like her well if if a so All right, so let's let's broaden out for a second There's a lot of like male predators In the red pill space manasphere space. I mean guys who Are pretty much just preaching poison Playing to guys victim complex And not really doing anything to try to improve these guys lives Just, you know constantly repeating theory and bullshit over and over again that Makes them feel justified and being a fucking loser. I mean, that's just the basic point Yeah, I in fact everybody could watch my Last three row streams and you'll see the losers that I pointed out the exact same thing LARPing guys who really don't live the life that they say they do so so there's guys who do that but In that demographic a woman doing it Is going to be super successful Because and she's going to be able to get a lot of money in a lot of um And even if it's not a lot of money a ton of attention because She's pacing this guy's victim hood, but because it's a woman, especially if it's like a halfway decent looking woman then They're feeling understood by an attractive woman for the first time in their lives And They're they're putty now they'll claim that they're not because The surface content Is maybe boosting up their ego, but if you if you look at their behavior, they're they're really They're total simps essentially So a lot of this has to do with the weakness of of men in general in in the space and I think it's difficult for guys who are trying to be constructive like so this is the thing like For a certain category of men It doesn't matter that there's some women around for some conversations, right? It doesn't matter For for this lower category though Of guys who haven't even completed the basics like they need to be in a male only environment With men who are going to call them out on their bullshit And having a woman come in and speak to those men And and kind of emotionally coddle them and take advantage of their weakness manipulate them that is You know to use something i'm sure anthony would say is treasonous, right? you know it's it's uh It's bullshit. It's it's it's not helpful, but at the same time This is the internet. What are you what are you gonna do about it? What are you gonna do about it? I mean it was an inevitable thing and this is what I want to say because this is really important so I was saying before how women always go to male spaces if The male spaces are successful mm-hmm So One of the things that i've been tracking since I really did that's a good one I I I got that kind of I got a kind of simmer on that one for a second if they're successful You know, that's a that's a really good observation right there You know the spaces that are successful women are attracted to You know and they want part of it. Okay. Yeah, go ahead man. That's a that's a great observation. I love that so I think when we go back and we understand The nature of men and women in general. So for instance, it's a really good book famous psychologist Or worry about ballmeister. I think is there any he wrote a book. Is there anything good about men? and one of the parts of that book that really just stood out for me so much was talking about Men being nature's risks So for instance If you look at the bell curve for IQ between men and women It's the same Men and women have the same IQ But if you look at the extremes There are a lot more super intelligent men than super intelligent women and To feminists get pissed off about this stuff Because they see people in every top category are men And they say it's sexist. It's not it's genetics men are are They are some men who are going to rise to the very very top because They are designed to be more experimental what no no feminist ever talks about Is that there's also if 90 percent of of the top positions are filled by men 90 percent of the bottom are also filled by men You know 90 percent of people in in prison Are men I mean Men 90 percent of you know when it comes to people with severe retardation mental retardation they're men In a average birth we say it's 50 50 male or female right boy or girl It's actually 51 male 49 female because By the end of the teenage years A certain number of men will have died through the genetic issues So Nature like knows this and Cast the dice with men and it makes a lot of sense because a successful man could Would probably have more children Successful men could have more children right might have two or three women You know whatever whatever the social structure Certainly when you go further back you can see how that would be a plausible situation It's not this kind of ridiculous thing that people Try to say today, which is that you know 10 percent of the guys get 90 percent This is nonsense But is there a distribution curve that 10 percent top 10 percent of guys might might have gotten two women right and then top 1% would have gotten four five, you know what I mean like There there is some sort of scaling thing and in the guys at the very bottom wouldn't get any and that's happened so But that's cut that's just like basic natural selection, isn't it? It's basic natural selection right so Men are nature's experiments and this applies not only simply to genetics, but it also applies to any kind of social movement so What happens is and jack donovan's talked about this stuff. I know it's you know, but people have talked about like tribalism and you have men who um essentially these war these these You have like the establishment. Let's say you have an establishment of men and then you have They have most of the women Because they're kind of like the ones in charge and then you have a group of men that say fuck this I'm out they go off and and they're doing their own thing and they ultimately Successfully, perhaps or not will end up challenging the establishment if the establishment becomes weak, right? to try to bring this back home The man is fear Started off as this tiny little thing because The mainstream had so much power so you had this little group and it was just men it was just men who were sort of Arguably revolutionary and thinking and sort of challenging a lot of the status quo that was being created in society challenging feminism and gradually these men As their message as the community has become more cohesive. I mean it's broad, but you know what I mean like There is a legitimate culture to this area and The men that are coming out of it Are becoming more successful than the men on the outside of it And certainly from an idea idea standpoint, it's having a much broader impact on culture. So What we're seeing now is women gravitating towards it because they are seeing The message and they're seeing the men making the message and they're like, hmm Maybe these guys are on the something and I'm gonna cast I'm gonna Join them And I'm gonna move over to them because they look like they might be successful and I want to get that guy Let me go back to something you said when you said kind of like the we'll talk about like the evolution of the man is fear and Maybe the evolution of the man is fear from this is just my own personal view is from when I look way back It was more along the lines of Meeting women that kind of thing But I think what the man is fear is involved into and you can agree or disagree with me on this one But it's I've said this for a long time that the entrance ticket to the man's for a lot of times is trauma and I'm relating this to women now because A man that a man that has faced trauma has been through a horrible breakup or divorce or something like that Something that has affected them drastically. They are an easy mark easy pray for women period So and I think women do pick up on that That's kind of when I was going back a little earlier what you said yeah, yeah, so I mean 100 this stuff is going on. So I mean Just to kind of close up this thought like I've been in the man is fear. I mean, I was in pick up all the way back in 2008 but Really like solid on twitter as it developed in 2015 And back then there was not that many women. There's like a handful and they're kind of odd balls, you know, they were And that's typical, right? You see a lot of times you'll see like a group of like, you know Nerds or geeks or something. There'll be a few guys and like maybe like a girl or two, right? Because there's always some girls who are willing to like better to be You know the girl in this little niche Yeah, then You know to be just one of many in the bigger one so girls have their own sort of competitive Aspect to this how they you know niche down some of the girl, you know, if you're a girl and you decide to get into gaming You're getting a lot of attention your girl. He's had to get into bitcoin. You're getting like You get a lot of attention So the point here is that We've seen Very very rapidly I do think Trump was part of Mainstreaming this a bit kind of pulling some of regular conservative thought into it because there was some overlap with people like Cernovich but You really started to see it in like 2019 2020 It's been like an exponential ride over the last You know eight years and now I mean if you look at the manisphere I would say that a solid 25 to 30 of what you see come out actually comes from women and That is an indication That the movement of the manisphere is fundamentally successful And is going to ultimately become mainstream culture We're winning that cultural narrative and you're seeing it now even with the dating world Where a lot of these single women who are You know totally brainwashed. They're having a really hard time finding guys who are willing to deal with their shit and what you're going to see happen is Like they're under this delusion that they're still in You know the mainstream but the mainstream is really fragile the system is very very fragile and You better believe that these girls are going to be running to try to like oh now Now i'm with it they're going to be like last on this on the sinking ship like jumping off the ship trying to jump to where Culture is going because they're only In the mainstream because They're told it's what people are supposed to think so To your point about women coming after where there's men with trauma I do see a lot of that and I and I think whenever you have Like a bunch of men who are out there and they're expressing their pain There's opportunities for predators to come in and take advantage of it and Certainly to try to get a power advantage over these guys I do think though overall if I had to summarize it Especially from just sort of women who are observing or the you know the accounts I've seen is that for the most part it's women Just wanting to go where the energy is You know this this is where the energy is There's no energy in the mainstream. I mean what fucking conversations are they having In cosmo they're like talking about how you can You know shove a dildo up your ass When you're and you know and how to not identify as a man or a woman. I mean it just absolute nonsense Doesn't relate to him at all anymore Where are the men well the men are in the man is here That's where the women are going Yeah, I I want to say this last point Because it does bother me Nothing and I've and I've called out women on twitter about this I I'm very happy to have women in the conversation In the general conversation because it's it's an indication again of the success of the community but I don't take kindly to women who are sort of Very clearly thirst trapping Trying to come in and talk about Issues with men and certainly talking about like where are the men, you know, where are the men like? Fuck off like that girl Shannon mackayla or shana michael or something like that. I don't have any like personal gripe with her She's I mean I I do overall see these kind of girls as made as like a net positive I'd rather have them on our side than not Don't get me wrong She was like some australian like former shit lib She could do do all sorts of like body contortions So she's like, you know relatively attractive girl and she can like pull her legs behind her head. So, you know So She's she's out there. She talks about any kind of issue It's like guys are like smash smash like button like button, you know and I I it does kind of annoy me and I I called her out like maybe like a week or two ago Because she's like, you know, why are men the way they are? I'm like because there's women in male men spaces Women are always in the men's spaces. That's why that went better the way they are a lot of like I I have more respect for the women who Who I think have respect for the idea of what the manosphere was initially created for and like and they come into it with I don't I don't want to say like I don't necessarily even go so far as to say deference, but just a simple like hey, I'm new here like Like let me listen a little bit And like maybe I can add my perspective as a female rather than like Hey, things are messed up. What happened to the guys, you know Like just like where the fuck are you been, you know? Anyway, yeah, and I usually what I think of a woman says that it's kind of reflection on herself I think is what it is. I think it's kind of the mirror being held up is what it is you know, yeah 100 and I I also I mean, I think a lot of Women who have come over to the manosphere and they they admit this themselves. I used to be a feminist And now I'm a conservative. Okay But you still act like a feminist Use change, but your behavior towards men to lecture men to you know, like Need to be there talking about it. I mean, there's a meta thing and this is what I know anthony talks about this It gets pissed about this even more than I do It it is an annoyance because I'm glad you took this but the step from like a of views perspective Now you have to observe your behavior Mm-hmm because that's really where things come into play if you're just talking about it from a views perspective I mean, this is like guys complaining about what women are doing, but they're not looking at themselves and how they facilitate That sort of behavior out of women So I think the inclination for women to not take attention a bunch of Traumatized men want to give them is also very high and So, you know, I give women some some credit with that like as long if they're not thirst trapping You know, I I think a lot of them are thirst trapping and they don't even know it though I think that's an issue You know, I want to bring up a couple content creators that I've really since I thought about this topic There's a few people that I've tried to watch first one is I guess it's pearly things or whatever her name is And to me it was unwatchable unlistenable. It was I just have no clue why I just couldn't listen to it to be honest. It was just for me. It was absolutely meant nothing I felt I'm just being honest. It was just it was just poor. It was just I didn't get the I was looking for some sort of wow factor. Okay She's got like a million subs now like why and I literally have never watched her before And so over the past week and even today I tried to listen for like a couple minutes and some I forget what some other podcast she was on. I just kind of and today during work I'm like, I just I can't do this. This is ruining my day. Another one is Is um Torsha and I don't really Get anything about her either like zero like nothing like it's it's over I have I have no clue why anybody I don't even Like I I tried I did my best. I did I did my due diligence Another one is roma army, which is just oh, yeah, yeah Whether or not she literally like In intentionally tried to come into manasphere, but I do think that is considered manasphere content But that is another one where I just I just think that with like a woman like that. It's just Again to me. It's like trying to make up for her past transgressions is what I think I don't think there's A whole lot of value there and there was a ton of simps in those chats and streams and comments Again that word. I just hate that word, but I don't know any other word that people can relate to So I mean You'd like bang in a in a club bathroom Absolutely. Yeah She looks like nobody I bang at all. Yeah, yeah But to me, it's just like I I try to figure out what why guys are attracting and again, I'll go back to what I had said in beginning is guys Who have been traumatized? Like this is now their mommy figure or their Faux girlfriend So that's kind of way I look at a lot of these type of content creators And we're gonna have two coming on soon to um two women who are content creators We're gonna have uh minka from better biaches and also good mothers gonna come on So we're gonna talk to them We're gonna talk directly to a couple women who create content and we're gonna ask them why they do it and what's their You know, what's their motive and um, so that's coming up soon. So everybody stay tuned. Yeah So I I would say that You know, so much of what of this stuff that goes on though, I do think is somewhat unconscious I'm not saying that there isn't any conscious aspect to it. Where they but I don't Usually think of this stuff as like a scheming kind of thing. I mean super like intelligent women Certainly can scheme and know how to use sex appeal and how to position themselves But You know, I I do think part of this is just the cost of doing business like when you become a successful movement You are going to get all sorts of uh People bailing off the other ship. They're gonna jump on your side and a lot of them are going to be mentally unstable or they're going to be grifters or you know It's men, I think all we can really do Is we need to help guys develop their own discernment To be able to see first off You know, know themselves well enough to know are you Are you engaging with this person's content just because they're an attractive woman? like Because I mean I've seen this on twitter literally Like someone will make it some account will make a tweet usually like an anon account or something will make a tweet And it's a great tweet and then Some girl Will take the tweet and then they'll tweet it And they'll get like three or four times the likes That's pretty standard though. I mean it's pretty standard. It's pretty standard. But the point is that happens because guys are Like there are guys who are more inclined to Like a woman's tweet You know or or to follow some sort of woman saying it than a man and and I think that Like that self-awareness Like why are you looking to women for leadership? Like this is this is where we get really deep into the substrate layer of how fucked up society is Why are men Looking to women to tell them what to do And and you realize it's not like the ideas are are something like, you know, I'm not saying they're nothing but There's a fundamental Feminization of men fundamental core and You know, I don't think that you you have it in you, Tony But I mean, I've had the rooted out of myself I've had to see it and every now and then I'll still see it. I'm like Like fuck, you know, where's like, where's that because it's been hit in us So much So You know It's it's it we just have to make guys more aware of how they how they operate And I think that's the only way you get through it and a lot of a lot of men are gonna You know, they're gonna give their money to to women. They're gonna And it's not all gonna be bad. It's not all gonna be bad but Because I do think that there's a lot of really well mean women A lot of women come into this space. Maybe there's an there's the unconscious element. Okay, this is where the energy is They want to get into the conversation But it doesn't mean that they're bad intentioned and it doesn't mean that what they contribute is a net negative I mean, you can make an argument You can make an argument. I don't think it's necessarily a poor argument that Is it better as a stepping stone for a bunch of sims to listen to A woman tell them to stop being a pussy Then it is for those guys for a bunch of guys to not listen to anybody say it because they won't listen to a guy say it I mean I don't like this but you know, I mean It's it's kind of like do you like you have some female politician like, you know, I know anthony like for instance Like he's he's pretty big on this but I mean, there are some female politicians who are fighting I get that but I also I'm kind of in his camp where I will not vote for any woman Sure, sure I don't care if it's a democrat or republican It doesn't matter to me and if it's a woman republican, she's not getting my vote. Yeah, that's just that's my personal decision I'm just not You know, it's the Bitch thing, you know, I I I get it. I get it. I really I really do get it I mean, I'm I don't I don't do that But I get it like I'm pragmatic at this point. I feel like I have to be pragmatic with it and kind of But but they're anyway, I mean So this is kind of like the women in the man is fear situation. I think you get a lot of it, but Just to talk about the the other half of this which is the the hemisphere This is a beautiful thing. It's a really really beautiful thing and What I've seen being created by a lot of these women They have no interest in dealing with what the men are doing They want to create female spaces And they're doing all sorts of like holistic health care and and cycle tracking and beauty tips and Show show another woman how to show a woman show a man. I mean I was thinking about this today What would I want to see show me how to fold a fitted sheet? Okay Like, you know, I fold the fitted sheet and it's a ball of whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Anybody ends up with a fitted sheet. That's your sheet that goes over your mattress. You know, it's got the elastic on it Like, how do you fold that? I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to do it You know what women if you're watching show us how to do that not just show us show other women Like I've seen some of these great channels that like it'll show women how to cook It'll show women how to um Whether it'd be iron a pair of hands and and that might sound just like really boring stuff But that's things that I think women nowadays need to learn to know how to do especially women that have been divorced And are looking for a man like you might you might want to learn how to do some of that stuff And it's not belittling to women. You know what you mean? It's not it's something that I think as a woman That's part of nurturing and taking care of your man I I said this on twitter a maybe even a year ago at this point, but There is Most it's mostly on instagram, but it's probably on youtube and it's that's on twitter as well to a certain extent you have these I guess you could call them like mommy vloggers. Yeah, and They are talking about Like things are going through with kids and stuff that happened and you know Here's this new thing that they got and how it's helpful And you know, they make a business out of it But they're such a positive influence. There's such a positive influence and I mean and you know A lot of the stuff that they sell like my wife will get it sometimes and it's it's actually like really helpful stuff You know, so the the point is that they are Like it's a female space, you know, and and they become aspirational figures And that's what I love to see. I love to see this hemisphere and I would ask women I would ask this and I'm not saying that they have to do it, but I would ask women who are In the man's fear and talking to men. Do you feel like this is where you are best serving the world Or do you feel like you could Better serve the world by taking the message Modifying it a little bit and talking to women I think the latter will make a bigger impact Yeah, you won't get the attention That you're getting right now I'm so glad you said that because that was my thoughts today again when I plan plan a topic for a show My thought kept going to What we need is more women talking to other women. Yeah about what they can do to improve And you know for me even saying that is almost Polarizing to women like what do you mean? We need to improve that kind of thing? Well, you know, you're 45 years old and you're living with a bunch of cats and you know, you're drinking box wine that whole Thing, you know what I mean? Yeah, you do need to improve so I think that what I thought about like content creators Things like that are more important than I'll say trying to help the man Okay, there are a lot of guys that I think that go toward more motherly figures Which I think sometimes I guess is good if you had a shitty mother You know as long as they're genuine so and speaking of My guests a good mother and minka if you guys want to jump on Jump on anytime backstage and we'll start bringing you on here because I'm only going to go about two hours tonight but um, so you guys jump on if you want and uh, we'll start Getting this conversation rolling even more and and to be perfectly nuanced, which is what I'm known for I mean, I do think for certain problems That there can be a lot of benefit To a man working with a woman for certain problems certain emotional issue And of course a woman who's really a master and expert at her craft Is integrated enough to be able to deal with both categories But we're not talking to these You know professionals we're mostly talking about You know a girl who's like halfway decent looking who came in and talks a lot, you know, and she knows how to how to do it Are they better served talking to women? I think that they are better served talking to women. Um For the you know, for the most part I think that that's the case but Um, what was I going to say here or something else I was going to add I don't know about a lot of like just pearly things like I I've heard of her I've heard of her because I think tate had some sort of he was on one of her shows although I didn't I don't think I really watched it but um I don't understand. What is what is it about her that's gotten so much traction compared to like other I have no idea. First of all, she's not attractive in any way shape or form Maybe that has something to do with it. Like a non attractive woman talking. Maybe guys like that Maybe they find it less threatening. I I don't know Yeah, maybe maybe she's like Just attractive enough to that they would that they would look at her be okay with like looking to her But not like so attractive that they're They're warning the radar gives up, you know I think that's that's a good point there exactly So like like she's so damn good looking. Why is she talking about this stuff and then like like she's kind of homely looking Okay, well, she's got to be legit if she's homely looking You know, that's kind of what I thought about Yeah, I was trying to look at every possible angle when I came up with this subject. So Yeah, yeah, I mean What was I going to say with this? I think The the big thing that guys have to remember is that There's going to be women participating in this. It's a public space It's there's nothing wrong with it at the end of the day. There's nothing wrong with it Men can create more private communities that are just for men And that's what they should be doing You know, I don't work with women I have women ask me pretty much every week if I if I would work with them. I'll do a call I don't work with women. I won't work with women It's not because I don't care about women. I care about women a lot and I probably could help women, but there's two reasons I don't work with women The first reason is that I want to Really maintain my focus on men. That's my vocation I feel that I feel called to it I do not feel called to help women directly I've I help women indirectly by helping the men in their lives And I think that there's other I would like to see other women Focus on other women, you know helping women and talking specifically about what it's like Because I don't know what it's like to go to to be a woman. I don't know what their lived experiences It doesn't mean I can't Help them, you know 22 convention. I talked to women but Yeah, I got to do some do 22 convention speeches are excellent. They really are Thank you really really good and I think any women watching check out that's 22 convention speeches Especially the one I think it was from it would be I guess it would be two years ago, right? Yeah, the the initial 22 can integrated the integrated man integrated That's a just a great great Just an excellent speech when when it comes to talking to women I do have Amanda a good mother backstage and I'm going to bring her on right now. So We're going to welcome our first guest and say hello How are you? Hi, Amanda. It's great to see you again. Oh, you're muted muted Sorry How are you guys? Where are you? What's what's back? Are you like in an archaeological site? No, it's my aquarium in the background. Oh my god Super zoomed out Well, Amanda, it's good to have you tonight. Um, you've been listening contentedly I see in the chat and Yeah, so why don't you introduce yourself to the audience and kind of tell people what you do and then I'll give you I'll give kind of my take on what you do Okay. Um, I'm Amanda. I have a channel called good mother. I also have a few backup channels Uh crazy bitch boot camp the working man's hostel. Let's see. Uh another good mother channel um I guess my primary focus for my channel is feminism the universities and the psychology field specifically Because I see that is the fundamental Place where the most ideological infected crazy bitches get to promulgate their mental illness. So We we have a pretty big mental health crisis in our society And I put feminists at the core of that so That's kind of my focus is that like that's the core of your channel. I mean Excuse me. I've had the the The popular flu last week. So if I cough a little Every branded common cold and flu Yeah But uh, yeah, I mean I've I've listened to your channel. Um, I didn't Know of you or really heard of you before I met you at 21 So of course, I've you know, I've ghost watched your channel and kind of checked things out, but to me The probably one of the biggest things that I've noticed on your channel And I'm gonna say probably the most um Um For me engaging Is listening to guys stories. Yeah I do think you get bring some guys on that have some Kind of hate saying sad stories, but just like really Yeah, really rough stuff almost almost hard to listen to sometimes Yeah, well and and what's kind of strange about that like I grew up with a crazy bitch from mom And so those guys stories it's kind of of a reflection of like what my father and my stepdad went through in my upbringing so like a lot of the Complaints that the men have with the laws and How women get away with abusing authority and all that kind of stuff like I watched it firsthand. So I know it's a big problem. I didn't know feminists were the cause of all all that policy though I didn't know that until like two years ago. So you look at and I hope to have mine sometime soon, which is jeff younger If anybody watching is not familiar with jeff jeff younger It is It's beyond what I can even say. It's yeah doesn't make sense to me. I still I'm still I'm still processing it after I've known jeff Now two years. I'm I'm still processing. Yeah I'm still How strong jeff is yeah, I guess I'm processing that more than anything Yeah, and the things that the the attempts he's made and the progress he's made to rectify this horrible situation Not just in his life, but in other men's lives So a big shout out to jeff younger if you don't know his situation Um, it's just it's something that you have to kind of take do a deep dive into to really to understand it and and what's funny is is that on my instagram recently I had put up the I basically a segment from when he was on tucker carlson Put that up Oh, I think it was like I think it was january 11 and for some strange reason The algorithm took it off and for me to have a reel that has I think it has like 10 000 views right now And I can't even tell you how many likes so for some reason instagram kind of cut that one loose and I was surprised on how many people have Just commented On that little whatever it is two minute clip And I did take the most brutal part of his appearance on tucker carlson and So maybe that's telling me that maybe some of this woke culture is getting unwoke right now. Yeah Yeah, I've actually um, I have a stream to do hopefully sometime this weekend because I follow my local university Which is texas annam university to anybody who doesn't know the The diversity inclusion equity policies that are happening at our universities that are Putting women in positions. They don't belong in but they're I guess there's some texas law that um, they're really worried about to What is it to ban all di e initiatives? They're they're actually the professors the feminist professors these little terrified tyrants Are really worried about it. So it actually makes me really happy I do have um minka backstage So i'm going to bring minka on minka is one of the newest content creators And I would call her a manisphere content creator She had had an appearance on fresh and fit. I'll say in the past couple months and um She might want to talk about that, but we're going to get her input too. So I want to welcome minka tonight Minka, how are you? I'm good. How are you guys? I'm good. Have you been Watching? So why don't you introduce yourself to people that don't know you and And yourself introduce yourself to fat stedman. Uh, my name is minka. I have a channel called better biaches and we We by I mean me and anyone who's there I we have done interviews to kind of highlight what the manisphere is about in regards to men's perspective and like why they chose whatever sector they're in So that women can like understand it better than it's not just like misogyny And then we also have girls night and guys night. I haven't been streaming for the last two weeks so it's a little spotty right now, but My main focus is actually on what you were talking about is reaching more women Yeah, I I like the idea of almost acting like a translator For women. Yeah, that's kind of what it's it's been a while Yeah Yeah, because because there's women that minka can talk to you that won't even come near me Like there's so many women that are terrified of me and so They're they're kind of drawn to her in in something that I wanted to touch base with her on later. Um Because I've been watching the Davos Things yeah the all the Conventions they have at Davos Yeah, yeah, so all the feminists I sat through all of them and a Eight running theme is you can't be what you can't see that's why they're trying to put so many women in positions of power And I think that speaks to kind of what minka is trying to do too Is she she tends to attract women that I guess look like her because that seems to be What a lot of these group identitarians Identify with I guess people that look like them I think it's helpful to have a translator somebody that they feel comfortable talking to I'm I want to ask both both Amanda and minka the same question Who is We'll start we'll start we'll start with Amanda Who is your target audience and then I'm going to let pat ask some questions right after this one Who is your target audience and then I want to go to minka and ask for the same thing Your your target audience My target audience I think are people in positions That don't feel that they can speak up like in in my community where I live The majority of my clients are people that work at the university and so They can't speak up about stuff or they feel that they can't speak up I mean there's been stuff that has happened that you know They've had to sacrifice bits and pieces of their integrity to keep their damn job So so they're a little more hesitant to actually speak up when they see something's wrong So my target audience is people that work in those positions I'm trying to accumulate a lot of the same stuff and try to give them a little more Motivation to you know do the right damn thing Instead of letting these bullshit policies ruin every institution. So so you're working your channel also in your personal life Yes, yeah, okay Right on and then let's go to minka. What is your what is your ideal target audience that you want? To attract is it men? Is it women? Is it both? It's both. It's both It's weird because I can't fully have the the dialogue without the men there if that makes sense. Um My target audience is women. I want to have the discussion with women But when it comes to having the discussion what I'm finding is that it's better when I'm in the middle and there's a man and a woman so it's um The guys that really were like the people that woke me up. So like Oh, oh, you know, I Mr. Is a little weird because it's like I found the guys like snap me into reality of like Oh, I'm not a victim It is easy and then I met good mother and then good mother Really woke me up to like the laws and the the regulations and stuff that are against men And so it I've learned a tremendous amount, but now it's about dialogue. So where men continue to say, uh Do you what is it the word? Not just lead me Let's oh submit. There you go A lot of women have a problem with the word submission and Uh servitude, right, which is the word that the lot of the red pill guys like to use and um We had one where uncle guns was explaining something about traditional values and one of the and he was talking about those words and so was caduceus from the vital message and Uh, I stopped the whole thing and I was like do you if he were paying all the bills doing everything protecting you Making sure the kids are okay disciplining everything your life That you don't have to worry about like if you're gonna eat or where you're gonna live if he said Hey, if I have a job opportunity making more Do you trust me to lead our family? So all the women said, yeah, I could see that But when you only say are you gonna submit are you you have a servitude attitude? It's Anyone if you tell a man, hey, are you gonna like worship me and like Believe me every like it's like any guy would be like, no You know what I mean? So when we change the words to really mean what the guys are trying to say to the women that don't understand it It's like guy language and girl language It's fun You said talk a lot Just wanted to jump in with something here. Um, and not to necessarily take it in any kind of like religious Direction, but I think it's and I think it's at least relevant when understanding a lot of the substrate When this whole whole idea of a woman submitting to a man It has became this big trigger, but if you actually go back to the root of it Um, I think it's an Ephesians. Is that a wedding a few weeks ago? The man is supposed to submit to God Right, so it's it's not like I think that that feminists really took that and then they Manipulated it that this is about a man having control over a woman slavery where it's really like Both of them are submitting. Yeah, man has to take on a certain level of responsibility and surrender of his own will In order to properly lead a family Well, and then that's again like any which way you go around in regards to religion. There's a lot of different ways you go I mean even with like, uh What is it Allah says you are men are not supposed to take money from women that men are supposed to provide and protect If a woman works, she does not add to the family householder. That's her money, right? There's just it's just really funny when you use religion. There's a lot of like clarity Um But it is very much that word was demonized And so when you change it to trust like would you be able to blindly trust this person if they're taking care of everything? Every woman I talked to says yes It's the same thing. It's like, all right, you say it's gonna be that way. Okay. It's gonna be that way It's like And the other thing too is that women have gone very far away from the power that we actually have right And and I say this in traditional roles. It's I was I mean good So I had my mom interview me because there's a lot of like you can't understand me without understanding my mom first Yeah, I like your mom by the way good mother my mom I really am thinking I should have arranged marriage to you, you know I knew it and she like broke it down to a way that was like Damn mom that makes right Like you know back in the day when people do arranged marriage. It wasn't the way People demonize it. It was your mother and your father were the people that knew you the absolute best So they weren't right whatever trash was around like in the the Roman empire you have to marry a king and a queen. No, you were a regular person but you still had to find a good high value partner and So she was saying she's like you would talk to the family and they would talk to you and you guys would put money together to show that you were wealthy enough to have that person and You find person. Okay. I think he could be okay with her problems over here. Okay I think she could be okay with his problems over here and that's how it would work out and I was like I don't want to talk to you anymore mom You're saying is make dowry is great again Oh, man, dude Yeah, we did the interview and good mother was asked my 12 year old sister was there A good mother asked my mom, would you consider an arranged marriage with my son once your daughter came of age? I have an 18 year old son I could consider that Right It was funny. I just wanted to see your response. I was half kidding And one that's a thing though. She keeps talking about it now. And so and then you also take into consideration like But the way that she is hard on me, right? So I've been saying a lot that men and I say this to people They don't have anything to say back because women were raised to believe you can do anything You can be anything. Uh, no matter what you do someone will always be here to help you whether to The loved one I'm sober in AA and even we have a problem with women staying sober because there's always a drug dealer or a boyfriend Or someone that's going to take care of them And and prolong the whatever um, my mom raised me and and men are raised to believe that uh You don't deserve anything. You're not owed anything. Nothing will ever be given to you You have to work hard for everything and so you have these total Polar opposites and as we told as a woman, I'm like it's easier being a man when really it's It's easier being a woman. We do have issues. I'm not going to sit here and be like, we don't have any We do one in five women are raped. Like that's a serious thing. There's women that don't feel safe That's a serious thing but in comparison all of the things men go through it's like I feel bad for you guys, but like Uh, I have I have the black pillars like self and all of them have like woken me up to the fact that I do have a golden ticket I do have way more potential and ability as as you've said, tony. I went on fresh and fit. I went on a What was it a universal uh, telomundo dating show? I have been able to be a guest on multiple male men's uh Podcasts and panels and I've been invited to a lot more things Simply because I'm a female now my only goal when I do that is I'm Saying the same message that we talk about on good mother's stream on tony's stream On the vital message when we're behind the scenes with like rishi and uncle guns and self and we're talking about the issues That's the same thing. I'm talking about over there. I'm just translating it differently when I'm talking to women I'm it's softer and nicer Which is helpful because I really don't care about these women's feelings So I think me and pat here. I know pat's I'm gonna ask a couple hard questions I do think that do you guys think that you guys collect simps? period You do or we do do you think that you collect them? Because I do I think there are guys that do Simp for any woman that's on any platform period plain and simple No, like do you guys think that? Do you guys think that you collect simps period? Yeah, I think it would be unrealistic to say no Inadvertently or or whatever like it's it's gonna I mean I can tell you I mean there was there was a show There was a show with uh, I think was a conducive's uh dating show that you were on And you actually act asked the guy if like the guys if and I remember I I just I remember it was duke from duke and don I remember his facial expression from that show When you had asked if you could peg a dude and I had to look up what pegging means and I'm like, oh Jesus And I'm like worse Had said yes, I'd try it pat. This is no lie And I it was on a stream. I was literally like I I looked like like beavis and but had just like Look like did this guy really say that in front of so thousands of people can see that and to me that is the ultimate collection of a simp right there like I gotta go to pat on this one I don't know what to say. I don't know I don't know It was on the black pill bachelorette And it's on the vital messages show It's really fun because we'll have one girl contesting and it'll be several men contesting for her, right? It's a dating show and I was just it's you we we have it's internet. We troll they're black pillars. It's hard trolling So I asked Because I didn't think anyone would say yeah, and they're and when you this man said yes He fully I would be into it and anything there were certain men that anything that I would say to like push the envelope They were open to it not just open to it. They were like that sounds like a plan and I was like, oh I don't like you but so yeah inadvertently or inadvertently like I think it's a part of the Whatever you call it that there are simps they're going to be men that are going to feel paid attention to when they haven't been paid attention to in a long time understood like you said And it is a very vulnerable thing But it is like you said the responsibility of do not do anything with it, right? So it's one of the first things that I woke up to is the simple thing of like I'll tell you this I don't So fucked up. I haven't taken out my trash in years like years I'm talking like Probably seven years. I have not taken out my trash. My neighbor takes out my trash Every single and and they bring it back and it it was never even a dialogue It was just they kept seeing me like oh, I forgot the trash. Oh, I forgot the trash and I'm a single female And the guy just takes out my trash, right? It is as simple as that because the way that our system the way that our men have been brought up Is to want to protect women is to want to help women is to want to pay attention to women That is like you said women wanting to be where the men are. Where are the men? Where are the men? It's it's very very similar. It's just the responsibility of don't do anything with it So I've had dms from guys leading with their wallet and all sorts of things. I don't even acknowledge it It's or I'll say something like you're a dumbass for leading with your wallet is why you're going to get into trouble like But uh, yeah, I want to go to Amanda on this question Amanda. Do you think you collect simps? because I I've seen your streams and I've seen some of the comments and it's like Geez wow Which comments though if you're talking about laurence trolling alice comments. Those are different than Just typical comments. I kind of I I might look at I can tell you this I can look at things through a different lens. I think than a lot of people So when I do occasionally like look in there and it's like, oh Okay, there's there's some simping going on there We can we can see it. It doesn't have to be super on the nose Yeah, I can tell you something else though that's going to change it a little bit because I have the same thing and I talked to good mother about it. It was like First of all, I didn't know everyone was scared of good mother. I really like her And one of the things that I first noticed was I was like this lady's got a bunch of simps They're all just like good mother. Good mother. Good mother, right? And I think that's what you're kind of touching on right? Maybe Guys I mean I've seen similar so I I don't know because honestly I hang out with the the group of men that have the Worst reputation for hating women. So I don't I don't believe that I collect simps on my channel. I mean when we do streams It's like I have a a focus a topic something that I saw that I want to dissect There's men from all over the world that come to my channel to discuss issues We don't talk about dating like I mean because the majority of the guys that join in on the conversation Identify with migtail. So it's like no date. No cavitation. No relationship. Whatever So it's like if they have something to contribute to the topic at hand, they contribute There's a few guys that will troll a couple of the crazy bitches though that psycho watch my channel and and they'll make comments because like One specifically she will psycho watch and like take screenshots and then post it on her channel and it's ridiculous But he does it just for her Yeah, I do see like I said Lawrence you're getting I'm getting you're getting a male perspective somebody Yeah From the outside in and saying okay, that was a very simple comment And I don't want to say just it might be a compliment to you or things like that But in this in this youtube world You know comments and And um, especially the chat a lot of times things are said to get your attention and your attention specifically Okay, that's whether it's amanda or minka or whoever So I think there's a level there's levels to that But simping is simping is simping Um Whether it's a low level high level But I do see it and I do think that any woman on youtube and a youtube channel will collapse But you want to go ahead? Yeah, I mean I I guess So I think this is an interesting thing from like a definitional standpoint because yeah, we We're calling it simping um And it really is a spectrum and I think You know, maybe maybe there's a specific Like you have to really gauge. What is the intention? And there's a lot of unconscious intent that you know the guy himself might not be aware of But just to to kind of give an idea of this. I mean If you know being a woman speaking out about some of these these issues that guys face These there will be guys who Are maybe more protective over you Yeah, yeah, no That I do have pat because my channel I host a lot of guys for complete free speech So they're actually really protective over the channel Yeah, like like they they highly value having that space where they can say things that they're afraid to say on their channels Because a lot of them have you know, they're on their fifth 10th 16th channel Because they say things and they get canceled and my channel is still standing after all the shit that I say And that's what I wanted to touch on when I said the whole simping thing that I have seen I'm a simp for good mother 100 and that's what I wanted. I wanted to give the shift of perspective because The the majority of the men in the the it's mid-towel. So they're not necessarily the most Out of all the groups that I've been around and what I've seen is and I talked to you about this I was like aren't these simps though And what I've experienced myself which changed my perspective was when I've had so many different situations and as a female I think good mother and I both can contest it like there's going to be men and Definitely a lot of women that are Not liking it like not liking us or a channel or whatever and for me to be able to First experience the freedom of speech I did with your channel like being on there and being able to say the things that we're saying And have that liberation was like I like being here, right? And then on top of that whenever I'm having like a tough go like I had an issue with another content creator Uh while back and I came and I talked to you it was like It's a safe it really feels like a safe space and that's a dialogue where I asked we started talking about Where did all of the issues start from and good mother was saying it that it was motherhood And I've talked to a lot of people it's like yeah We did have a spike in people having children that did not want to have children that were ready or whatever And in anyone that I had I talked to with issues of that we're dealing with it on a societal standard They adhered to the messages being said because of bad parenting it all comes down to the same thing and so Again, it's like there's two different. I think there's like you said there's a spectrum, right? I think that when it comes to good mother's channel It is really a has been a standing and safe space and she hasn't changed her position She hasn't been like oh by the way, here's my new course. Here's my new this. Here's what you know what I mean I think I think this is the real line is So a guy is protective or a guy is you know send supportive encouraging words but if if he did he didn't be maybe doing that and You know, he'll say that even his intention is just pure to support to protect whatever. There's nothing It's clean, right the question comes in is if either of you were to Start to message him privately start to express your own interest in that individual How would he then take it? and and I think a lot for a lot of guys more guys than would be prepared to admit but you could Reveal it from them if you were I definitely don't do it But you could if you were to manipulate them, right by pretending to be interested you could draw out that These guys would Be interested these guys like there might be a barrier They might not trust it at first But they'd eventually be interested and that's how you can kind of see like how clean Is it actually and look right male dynamics are not clean and they're never going to be completely clean and that's the whole idea of this conversation about Male spaces and female spaces in the crossover because you can't have a clean Clean dynamic. I mean like in in combat units It's incredible that they are trying to introduce women in the combat units. I mean that is a way to completely destroy a military unit because The the group can no longer operate as a team So Anyway, I just wanted to throw that out there because I think it's You can only peel it back once there's been sexual availability from the other party, right? Yeah, but that's that's contingent upon the sexual availability of this part or like this side, you know what I mean And that's where the responsibility like I said earlier comes into play where it's you can pretty much I mean, I mean you used the example earlier of or no, you didn't but roma army is one that I really Right Very easy to see like, okay I see it I think that it's it's pretty It's also didn't she like try to kill herself or something Look for me to roll my eyes at some at that statement says a lot about That's a french You know that girl, you know We've talked about it before too roma army came from the What is it she was from the romanian orphanage and it's been said like there's a lot of associates They couldn't hold the babies, right? So it's it kind of like For me, it's like, okay, that makes sense. I feel bad about what I said now because she's probably sexually abused She probably and that's That's the thing where it's like you can you can deduce a person by a lot of different things You asked about pearly things the reason she got so big is number one She was in the uh europe area, which is it this is brand new over there So that's number one. They have an american female talking about these things But she's not she's just to me. Sorry good mother. I still don't like her She's just to me. She just keeps condemning it and not creating a dialogue, which is very difficult to watch Uh, but then she also played the part it's she could talk about that she does have sexual experiences with other men, but she's always wearing like the the Sunflower dresses and she's saying what men want to say They want to say this she is they want right they not right they want to say So watching a woman get away with being able to say these things to other women Is where the excitement comes from is where popularity has come from because and I get it because it's it's if any man tries to have these conversations to a regular woman There's a lot of issues and it's the the the scary part is the ramifications that a man can Go through with just You know It's like a whole Let me ask everybody on the panel here Do you think a lot of these guys that go on these streams and listen to these different women including guys that listen to you Amanda And to you think uh, do you think these guys are just addicted to attention? And have nobody to talk to is that why they do it because I see things that like When people say stuff on streams, I sometimes I sit back. I'm like Like why the fuck would you even say that? Like I'm like like on my screens I mean like To me, it's it's like isn't that just to the point to where it's too personal And and the issue that I have is a lot of times is that Like sometimes guys you just need to buck the fuck up just like And be a fucking man and quit fucking complaining and quit crying because I see a lot of cry babies I I see more cry babies in women's Manisphere women spaces than I do in any other men's spaces And I always feel like they need to cry to the woman For some reason. I don't know why maybe it's a mommy issue. I have no clue But that's my that's kind of my personal observation. I want to go to panel I think that they resent being a man I mean, this is what I've always said about like people like rollo who are obsessed about all the things that women can get away with Like yeah, women women do have it quote unquote easier from a certain perspective I mean, I think it's a completely different experience Of of living and have a completely different experience of problems But the thing is I'm a man and I like being a man I like having problems to solve. I like having responsibilities to bear I don't want to not have that stuff because I know that when I have not had any of that stuff on my plate When I don't take on on tasks, then It's like what the fuck am I doing with my life? It feels it feels pointless Like I get meaning and I think men Men who have actually stepped into it get meaning out of being a man The problem isn't that men Have to take on responsibility and when guys complain about that stuff Like I just see I you said Tony a crybaby I mean that's somebody who themselves has completely rejected being a man at their core The complaint is not about taking on responsibility. The complaint is about not getting authority for taking on responsibility That is the valid complaint Because that is the that is what's not right so to speak although Complain about it Is also in a certain sense denying, you know, giving authority to somebody else because you're gonna complain right like If you're gonna opt out of the system if you're gonna opt out of this dynamic Like you don't do it by like whining about it online all the time. That's not sub-communicating what you think it's sub-communicating you know just go and Do stuff on your own and build stuff on your own and you know, there's a bunch of like Like I went I took my my children to some like Model trains this is this is gonna sound like totally off off base, but bear with me for a second We went to like a a museum in New Jersey called Northlands and it's like Enormous enormous building it takes like two and a half hours to go through it. It's a guy he literally built like this entire Model train thing that goes on for like hours and miles and he spent like he spent years doing it and This was like a complete fixation and focus of him And it's kind of like okay. It's kind of nerdy, right? It's kind of cool. Like he just dedicated his focus to that And guess what he had a it was his wife that really encouraged him to do it. Yeah, and like But if he didn't have but after she passed away Another woman came towards him because he was like i'm not thinking about women anymore I'm just gonna be focused on building this and a woman's like, oh, this there's a guy on his path and his mission I want him And so he fell in love again It's it's like if guys would just stop fucking complaining In do things like don't do it for women then you're pissed off at women. You don't think women don't respect it So go build something great What happens? Like that's that's that's like the original mig towel Yeah, and and you know, I've always had kind of a thought on mig towel I think I always thought it was uh I think it's I think it's a healthy place a lot of times when a man goes through trauma to go and visit but my this is my personal opinion is like Enjoy it live it build your empire, but don't pitch a freaking tent there man Like like visit that place for a while Understand yourself get your authenticity back Get yourself back before you I guess complain too much But sometimes I guess these these different channels and mig towel channels are a place for Guys to get that shit out of their system But how much How much how many times can you do it? That's the problem that I have that's my that's my pushback on on some of the stuff because I haven't I mean I I suppose that there are guys who are quiet Who maybe go in and and visit the place and they don't say much And they kind of absorb it and then they kind of quietly move on and fair enough but In terms of like main commentators, I don't see anybody moving on or processing I just see guys complaining and it's a feminine to complain So I I don't you know when I work with clients Some of them have bitterness And that's okay. And and I'm happy to I hold a space for them to be bitter and To to process it and to empathize and then also to deconstruct Right like You know you have I understand why you have this resentment. It's you know, here's it's how it's justified and also Here's how it's holding you back And that's when they actually you know, that's how they start to heal and move forward They need to be in the presence of a man who's more experienced than them who's gone through it a mentor And they need the mentor to hold space for them and tell them to stop being a pussy at the end of the day Yeah, that's that's a that's a great one. That's you know, I get I I get a little tired of the cry babies I don't know what and I hate saying that to a man, but sometimes Man, the only thing I can say is you got to buck up It's there's times to be a man like you've got to step up You've got to control your own freaking life You get to the point to where you know I've seen channels for years where it's the same guys in the chat Complaining about the same thing. I don't care if it's like a rollo channel I could go I haven't watched rollo and I don't know forever. I could go in that chat and I'll guarantee it's the same guys He's never yours. It's just your turn blah, blah fucking blah You know what I mean? So like men need to learn to be strong and and and Part of masculinity is dealing with your own Is dealing with your own problems just plain and simple And and that's tough. That's tough. Sometimes I get that But I think it's important as men that sometimes you got to separate yourself from all the The clutter all the noise and take care of business Take care of yourself. Take care of your body. Take care of your health things like that, you know, I've had the You know the the whatever the the popular flu But you know, I went to the doctor on Thursday and it was a checkup and he told me He had said a lot of guys that weren't in shape Could not handle what I went through last week You know for me, it was just two days where other people it's lasted weeks and months And going on but that's part of being a man is handling your business But don't we get to the point to where the crying and the crybaby shit just has to stop Isn't that what's part of being a man? Also, we have Michael Foster. It's good to be a man So welcome Michael Foster Um, I'm gonna look away tonight free copy to somebody. So really Yeah, thank you I'm just here because I miss you Tony. I miss you and I saw pat was on I see we have some Some ladies here. I'm not as familiar with but it's always good to see pat. I almost wouldn't put my white t-shirt on look like bruce Let me do it bruce will style tonight but I'm looking forward to the time we hear tomorrow michael Yeah, what time are we doing that again 3 30 eastern? That's so good. We can we can figure it out off Yeah, no, it's perfect. Um, that'd be great I was like, I actually I had an alarm I had an alarm set on my phone and it said figure out who i'm doing that interview with tomorrow I'm not even joking. I was like, I think it's pat stedman, but I gotta go look at my notes, but uh I I want to I want to welcome you Michael foster. This is a great treat that you're jumping on tonight again We're broadcasting not only on my channel, but on 21 studios So a lot of people are familiar with you on 21 studios, but I do want to you had met amanda 21 But I do want to introduce you to minka and uh, so What is your name again? minka minka nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. So our topic is women in the manisphere I just want to go straight to michael foster and get your thoughts on that Um I mean I get why they're here. I get um, so women want to help men Women like attention and I'm sure there's a mixture of all those things going on in terms of motives That I think there are some I've seen a lot of women that go into the space that Want to try to be helpful to guys that are out there struggling and it comes from a sincere place, um God made adam first and then he brought eve tim called him a helpmate suitable to him So I think women do have a general desire to be helpful to men Um, and I think that's a good thing and so I understand why they come here. I also know though that um that the desire to be seen and to be desired, um In various ways to you know, it's like high school people like being popular people like being liked And it's people even like attention sometimes when it's negative attention and so if you're a woman that starts up a A channel speaking to the topics that you know, you could just take Take the exact same topics that have been done on any manisphere channel And do it as a woman and you'll get a lot of attention. It'll be a mixed attention. It won't all be good There'll be some really nasty guys say some really nasty things and then there'll be guys that Will kind of be disgusting because they're so such suck ups, right and uh kind of You know begging for your affirmation um I don't know. I think it's I think it'd be really hard as a woman in this space To bring effective change and to help guys not saying it's impossible and I'm not saying that That the only motive is to be seen. I don't think that's true. I think that can be true as men as well Just think it's a really difficult place to accomplish anything good As a woman And so I don't know those are my my thoughts. They're not Super deep thoughts. Here's what I'll say if you're a really talented gamer gamer and you start a twitch account and you're a dude You'll get some followers If you're okay gamer and a good-looking woman, you'll get a lot of followers on twitch It's just a fact. It's like everyone knows. It's just how it plays plays out and So I think um, they'll they'll they'll get a lot of I don't know about you guys Amanda, I don't know if you have a channel or not. I feel like you do do right or you just active in the space I have a channel my my focus is Feminist universities and psychology field though. I mean The only reason it's an adjacent. It's adjacent to the mana sphere Yeah, I wouldn't call myself a mana sphere channel because there's people from All different spheres that come to my channel to discuss Topics about our society. So are there fish moving around you? Am I tripping out? Yeah, they're fish like goldfish. I I honestly I Because now now you can kind of see it really clearly with the goldfish before it was just like the black one or something I thought that there was that you were because I've been to museums like this before where they have like room Underground and I thought that was like a person walking around. I'm like I was going down myself. I was like I always trip out on your background. I know It's really cool. It's really cool. But I just had no I like that I saw like, oh, there are fish there Okay, I'm like, yeah Now I think Amanda's channel. I'm just going to give my take and I think Amanda is kind of I'll say leading the charge on The woman's fight against feminism. Is that is that a good take on your channel? I mean I don't know. I think because I'm so offensive towards the The very fragile Feelings of crazy bitches that I feel like my channel is a crazy bitch free zone that people can actually have logical discussions Like because I noticed discussions that happen all over That there's a lot of people that get involved that derail it or cause chaos or anything like that and it's like Women that are mean to do harm to men specifically stay away from my channel So so a lot of Huh, I'll send them her way The ones I can't like the ones that are like a wall and it's like nothing is going through send them to good mother Yeah, they won't come they won't talk to me So I mean, I don't know what it is. They're terrified to have an actual conversation an adult conversation With somebody I think that they won't buy into their victim mentality in there Poor me bullshit. So I don't know. I just don't play the game. So Mika, what's your channel about? um, it is Targeting women to have these discussions, but uh, kind of transit. We'll just say we'll translate it We're translating man language so that women can understand it So like I have a lot of interviews that I've done with men from different sectors in the main sphere black pill red pill passport bros mid towels Female creators females that are just in the space supporting. They don't have their own channel That's what I've done interviews on so that if women come in and they they watch them They're like, okay, they're not misogynist. They have a story. They pick that sector because it means something to them and and What are you right? But then we also have discussions with men and women where The guy'll say something I translate it so that the women can understand and then we have a dialogue And it's cool. What's really cool is we had one guy come in and kind of troll Not kind of he definitely trolled and like derailed at all And he was calling me like misogynistic and saying why are you trying to change these women and blah, blah, blah And the women yelled at him and they're like, we're having a discussion. It's a discussion. Leave us alone. I was like, oh, yeah So it's it's we're it's a learning curve. I don't really know what i'm doing, but it's fine I I want to I want to ask both Minka and because I've been I've Give given Minka some fatherly advice I'll say on her channel and I don't if she wants to discuss what I had talked her about in private That's up to her but I'm curious on Amanda and then I'll go to michael foster and pat steadman on this How important is promoting femininity to both of you guys? Not not feminism, but femininity Which means being the submissive woman being How important that is to for you to get that message to other women So you wanted me to start you said, okay, so I actually have an example of this. We had one girl on and She's really um I so my I do have a background in psychology So what I do is I kind of like evaluate people and see like, okay, that's their story. That's why they're that way That's what happened to them to make them behave this way, right? And especially when you have a woman that's like doing the chicken head dance and like I like threw out my neck. I should not have done that um And she was just like really talking very uh aggressively and I don't want a man because blah blah blah blah blah and this is what I don't want to win a man This is what I'm not going to take and this is what I'm blah, but I actually met her on the dating show the Hispanic one And when we were talking about it, I told her I'm like your past is hurting you so much That anything that you do with that exact attitude is going to be the same thing you receive Meaning and she didn't understand everyone thought I was attacking her. I'm like girl I'm giving you the advice it's yours to take or leave. I do not care. It's none of my concern It's none of my business, but I'm letting you know if you go to a job and you say I deserve this I demand this I blah blah blah it's going to go bad if you go to a friend and you treat them that way It's going to go bad you go to a man, especially You're not going to attract anything other than the bottom of the barrel And then you're going to wonder why all men treat you this way and it's not all men It's just the kind of man that you attract and I talk about it a lot that As as people in general we attract what we are is what I believe right? So if I'm not the best version of myself, you better be damn believe I'm going to attract a bunch of men that are not the best versions of themselves And I've watched it progress in my life where it's like as I became a better person I attracted higher caliber men and not just money like the kind of people that they are right and uh Anyways, we talked to her and I started she told me stuff about what happened in her past And why she was upset with that her dad wasn't there her mom wasn't a very good mom She basically raised yourselves until we started talking about that The end of the conversation when we dealt with that and when she was understanding that her attitude is Is not feminine. It's not nice. No one's gonna like to be around it. It's not pleasant It's not comfortable all these things and she realized how it was hindering her mind you we were in the hotel room She went from like standing and or being like really aggressive and like I want to fight someone to at the end of the conversation Her legs were crossed like this and she had a bottle a glass of wine and she was talking like this And I stopped the entire conversation And I told everyone I'm like look at her just she's not even saying anything just look at her And when the conversation became more about what I do want what kind what do I bring in a relationship? How how am I when I'm in love? Uh, what are the cute things that I do for a man when I'm really in love with him? And what kind of meals do I like to make and what all these things her entire demeanor shifted It changed and she was pleasant and she was sweet and she was very feminine and very I wouldn't say dainty yet but You it was with an hour of a conversation you could see the entire demeanor of a female change into a very feminine and positive Thing and so it is very much the the Foundation of the conversations that I'm having with women is Understanding and that's what I touched on earlier We've women have been brainwashed to believe that we were victims and we had to stand up and be a man and be aggressive And fight for what we want and I I did subscribe to that part and like I need to do everything Misindependent right And we forgot our value and the power that we really do have so if I'm in a relationship I'm probably gonna like Like I'll be able to bring a lot of feminine values in that I'm gonna be appreciated And I don't have to worry about a lot of things that I'm currently worrying about It's just it's it's the the the feminine energy brings a lot of peace and tranquility and nurturing That's why I talked about it earlier when it's like you could see good mother as like She has simps. I see it as like Damn, you really do feel like a good mother and it does really feel good this way and any man Feeling those feelings for a woman and their femininity It's that's what needs to shift That's the only thing really that needs to shift because if a woman is feminine She's gonna understand. Okay. He had a dark hard day. Okay. Uh, he doesn't want to talk And and and there's a difference is that men and good mother again, I've learned a lot from you Go to foster and pat on this what are what are In your guys' opinions, we'll go to pat first and michael foster What are feminine attributes that are important not just to the woman but to the man also? What are the most important attributes of being feminine that are important that good men? Not necessarily are attracted to but that what is normal natural Nurturing what is the attributes you think that? Women need to Vey to their audience I think As a practical matter For a lot of women today It's being able to Um, relax Being able to let go You know surrender if you're gonna surrender to a man you need to be able to let go um One of the major reasons that women have a hard time doing that is because they can't let go of anything They're very very wound up and i'm i'm sympathetic You know a lot of women are working Man's jobs and long hours sometimes stressed and they have kids and You know, they're totally outside of their energy. I mean, I I have two young children. I love them to death want more Michael I know it's got got tons There is also at the same time like, you know, you want to hold a baby or you know be there with your with your baby But you're also like this is not What i'm natural at like dealing with a crying baby Like this is this is not my zone of expertise and you can feel as a man It doesn't you don't feel your masculinity getting charged by dealing with a Crying baby and i'm not saying that a woman would get her her femininity charged by that I think it's more of like a nuance kind of topic because women need a community around them when it comes to children um To really feel good like if a woman's by herself raising a kid and There's no man around where the man's working. She's going to feel a tendency Because she's stressed and overwhelmed to pull the man into that domain but the point here is that The biggest impediment I see for women being able to be feminine is that they overload themselves and so being able to let go of Emotional stuff that they're carrying, you know the women it's it's a womb women carry They receive and they receive all this negative energy And it's got to get out of them for them to be able to relax and be So I think that that's kind of like a meta point That undergirds a lot of other things and I think it's one of the reasons why you see so much obsession With it with women today almost in a consumeristic way With like ways that a woman can relax, you know the wine Or going out on like a vacation bubble bath chocolate yoga, you know meditation, I mean there's And I'm not saying that they're not all necessarily bad, but There's clearly like a stressed out woman problem And stressed out women like guys are like they don't want to connect with that energy So anyway, I'll pass it to michael. What do you think? sure So scriptually So you go to titus chapter two Verse three says older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior So carry themself with poise grace dignity With that idea means right there Then it goes on to say not slanderers So slandering and gossip women use their words to so women have higher Linguistic abilities than most men they they speak sooner They tend to master that stuff So women can use their words to bring people together or they can use them to divide people, right? So it's kind of like guys can use strength to build things or destroy things um So they're to not to be slanderers so slanderers like a guy beats a dude up A girl destroys another girl's reputation right with words It's like the sort of methods And these are just rough generalities anyhow. They're not to be slaves to much wine And and that's that's way back in scripture. And that's because I don't have to be slaves to much wine Titus titus chapter two. Yeah And and that's just because women deal with lots of anxiety. The reason women deal with anxiety is that they're not hormonally Stable like we are they they live in a cycle of up and down and changing Where man's hormonal reality is really really stable until Once he gets into his 20s He stays relatively the same Before all the plastics and the problems we're having now But sure but really into their 50s and 60s That's why they you still have children real late in life But even a woman like she gets her period and then she enters menopause So so much of her life is built around a change in Hormonal reality, right? You are married to two women a month, right? And so um in a woman also has to depend on others And that's hard. It's a very vulnerable position to trust someone else with your body, right? We have a baby you're trusting someone else from your body Right now and and then you also have to trust them to protect them whatever And so that can cause a lot of anxiety a lot of times women want to know what's going on They're asking lots of questions. They want information. They want to be in the know They want to know that you have it In control so what a lot of guys call shit tests, right? Really this woman to check to see if she could depend on you It doesn't have to be this Malicious sort of thing, right? That's a great take on that Michael Foster. I love that. Yeah, it's not We do that. I've literally never put like that. That is a really good take on that on shit test It's like a chair check checking if it's stable if you can hold your weight And so a woman woman is meant to be subordinate to a man But think of subordinate like a private subordinate to admiral or something It's like not that they're less or whatever. It's just a matter of rank Right, you have to have like it's not essence when men and women are ultimately equal But there's different rank inside of marriage. And so you have to trust this guy So they're gonna test and they want to know that you're congruent to what you say are To say they are and that you're you don't just comply to them, but you also hear them out So a lot of times when a woman challenges a man She wants to see that he listens to her but doesn't fold like it's very important to a woman That he's got his he's willing to go but he's willing to listen to her so so women um Deal with lots of anxiety because when you are putting your life in someone else's hands You know, you do that so they have a tendency to go to wine for different reasons than Then uh, mendu says one thing is says then it says There to teach the young women Uh to love their husband In children Right, so uh what you always see these women like in their little stupid dogs In stupid cats, they're not babies, right, but they want something little to take care of right Women all go into the same the same thing psychology They go into teaching into nursing Really heavy on the hospitality carrying side of things. Oh, gee. I wonder why they're focusing on the nurture and protection of people Why would women be doing that now? um And that's because they're they're made to be nurturers and so so this is positive To love their husband and children. We command things that are difficult Right, if it's if it's 100 natural, you don't really have to say anything But you have to command like yes, like you got to love your husband That's always easier your children like sometimes you want to punch your children in the little stupid faces, right? this says to be self-controlled so um that is uh That she has to know herself peer then it says working at home So that's actually commanded so now we think of homes as houses where we do Netflix and chill places where we sleep um But that's not what homes used to be used to be a place of productivity homes where where you educated people is You had a business attached to it It's where you practice hospitality homes were a place where things got done So a woman wore a bunch of hats modern houses are emaciated. They're not what they used to be um, so it is hard for a woman to find a full Place to use her gifts in a modern home the women are very smart, right? Women can get things done um And and so homes could be a place where she could exercise all those gifts But nowadays you've taken Education out of the home into public schools. We have smaller and smaller dining rooms, right? And that's because we don't have people over people eat out more um The home is rarely a place of productivity now that with the internet though the home can be again It's kind of an interesting the industrial revolution changed the nature of households But now the internet actually you're able to sell things from your house I've been whatever so productivity was coming back to the home one of my favorite times in my marriage Was Emily and I packing up things the ship that we sold on ebay and amazon and doing with our kids was it was great You know and so we're like watching like every married couple watching office reruns for the millions time and drinking wine and selling stuff so women are to be workers at home um A lot of women don't have a lot to add, right? They really don't they don't know like if you're going to go to college Don't spend much don't take that much debt and learn personal finance And maybe get a liberal arts degree so you can educate your kids get something that you can actually put the To apply in your home, you know, but um Then it says kind You know, uh The tough girl shtick, you know the brash girl I'm going to drop all the cusset and cuss in all that stuff like it just makes her look Like it's like a guy's way in a sips a woman cussing All right, it's gross Right women sway their hips because they're uh, they have different shaped bones And then also during their uh, they're upside of their cycle It loosens all the more and it causes them to sway their hips Um, I'm not saying that it's good for guys always cussing stuff. I'm just saying just like a guy's hips swans disgusting to men uh The woman being brash and her and her and not kind Right is is uh repulsive then um Submissive to their own husbands that the word of god may not be reviled So submissive is one that people struggle with I always point out. There's no submission without mission Part of the problem is the guys aren't go anywhere. It's really hard for a woman to submit when the guy's not doing anything, right? And um And so guys will say well, she should follow me anyway to aware To where like to loserville to nowhere to She sit on the couch and watch you play video games. Uh, where's she where are you going man? Like if you're going somewhere, I agree that she should Follow you but a lot of guys aren't going anywhere and then they whine about it well Get it get like women will get on the back women Here's here's a lie so much of the monastery and red pills is so retarded such a waste of our time, but um but all right beautiful women will Attach themselves to men that aren't high value in the way you're sold in the red pill And if you grew up in the country, you know this you walk around you see these nines and tens See these beautiful like models With like this hillbilly dude You know like he weighs Who knows what 110 pounds wet Here's this beautiful girl walking around this guy in his arm and you're like And the guy's getting into some old pickup truck, you know, but it's his attitude. He's his confidence He she sees that he's gonna he's gonna do something. He may not have tons of money You know, but I see this all the time. I just grew up in this world everywhere And I was thinking if someone brought this example was talking that women looking for a high status man That is true but women do have an eye for potential and so Someone's telling the story about this woman that connected herself to this artist And the artist was poor at the time, but he became very wealthy by the end of their life I was like, yeah, that's a standard woman. She saw that he was passionate about his art It was his passion for his art. He was skill. She she like loved his she was he was driven She was actually attracted to that very attractive to a woman And if a guy doesn't have an emissions emissions really hard for a woman to submit herself But a guy will a woman will submit herself to a guy without Without money a lot of times she will she she wants she's attracted to someone that's doing something big Something worthy, right a woman's like, uh, she's looking for something that has a gravitational pull you know that can Keep her right. So like how does the earth get the moon to submit to it? It's got bigger mass It's got gravitational pull What the romans would call gravitas, right? And so those are women should be, uh Helpers they should be kind they should be beautiful They should um be delicate. They should help civilize. What do I do as a man? I go out there And I kill the enemy and I push back the thorns and thistles And then after I push back the thorns and thistles you come in and plant the flowers Right. I go out there. I kill the animal and bring it back. You make it in the bacon I go out there and I get flower and you make it into Uh, we I give her some semen very small amount. She makes it into a person Right. That's when women multiply they finish their cultivators And um in women are attracted to the hemisphere because they want to come and help men They want to cultivate they want to finish something whether they can do it or not That's I guess the debate here, right? But that's the sort of femininity that I think we should be looking for women should flow Like like the wind right like long hair or flowing dress. There should be grace to them And sadly you don't see much of that anymore Dude, that was like the most eloquent Dissertation I've ever heard That was just so good And my attention's been a short but I was I was like kind of stuck at every word Let me let me let me let me got let me tell everybody kind of what I got from that is that I think in these spaces again, we're talking about women But I think a lot of men need to be accountable to and that's kind of what I pulled from that like be accountable A woman it will follow a man who is accountable for his actions his deeds and things that he's he's done So that's kind of what I that's what I personally pulled from what you had said And in these spaces, do we need Do we need anybody to hold us accountable? Do we need women especially to hold us accountable? And I'm going to say hell no to that one like no way I don't need any woman to hold me accountable So again, the topic is women in the man's sphere But accountability as a man to me is one of the most important things that you can do And that's kind of what I got from what you were saying You know that I don't know if you want to bounce off microstar on that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean Well, you know what you were saying about Accountability I think is is really important. You know When it comes to this whole simping thing and in guys maybe Looking to women to lead them I think that a lot of the accountability comes from other men Calling out when guys are really going too far down that path And calling out the weakness. I mean you don't really hear as much of it anymore, which I think is a good thing But I think it's I think it's good to have You know when when michael foster when I you know, we call guys in the red pill or the black pill or the man's sphere retarded You know, we make fun of them. I think it's good I want to make fun of them more because a lot of them Need to hear it. They need to hear it from other guys they need to stop being coddled and and If if their response to this is to go Run to some sort of female content creator who's going to make them feel better about themselves Then you know You're you're it's being revealed in in real time Men always police other men and women always police other women. Exactly That's how it's been and that's exactly and what broke down. I think Amanda. This is a lot of what you do Yeah, that Women stop policing. I don't know like women stop policing younger women They say and and that's when you start to get this feral stuff and guys almost don't know how to deal with it Exactly. Well pat is worse than that. They started reinforcing and rewarding the the worst behavior that women have And I still I go back to the psychology field and feminism Like the lie of feminism because it's like the psychology professionals are in every Like every sector of our society like they've attached themselves everywhere because they're so concerned with culture and environment In the feelings of everything But they coddle women Like men have a habit of doing it too Like I get frustrated with men because I'm like, okay. I don't deal with men. It's up to the men to sort men out My lane is women like sorting women out holding women accountable I'm like in and men will argue with me that I'm too harsh on women. I'm like, too they are literally trying to They're literally abusing you like you don't see this thing that's going on around you that you know In a couple weeks down the line is going to hit you pretty hard because men don't understand female Like competition like a lot of Yeah, well and a lot of these feminists like their main goal. They hate men so much. They want to destroy them So you you take your competent man that's in a corporation And there's a bunch of feminists sharks circling the water just Waiting to you know dethrone them and take their jobs like I don't know. That's kind of my biggest frustration with men is like they they don't treat these Super predators with I mean they just treat them with more dignity and respect than they actually deserve Yeah, I think it's it's difficult for guys to break that that programming especially because It's not even about the woman A man dealing with the woman himself It's about if he does that then other men not not simply even other women who jump right other men will jump to her defense and so Any any guy this is this is the issue with like right the sort of simp phenomenon is that There's an instinct for guys to always protect a woman against another man even if the woman's in the wrong Right. We're right And you know, but something that I've run into this Unreal from in I I still don't get it. There's men that are protecting women against me Which I don't understand because historically like men would protect a woman against a man Or they would protect a child against a woman But two women like getting in between two women like Sorting each other out like that that's weird to me. I can take a venture at it and I think it's probably because They know that like they view the other woman as the victim because she's she's not as strong Right, so they see this this woman. She's gonna cry. She's gonna get so upset and they want to and they have this instinct To go and be there rather than allow her, you know, I don't think I don't think that men like I'm curious to hear what michael thinks about this and I'm not trying to make it fully black and white but But there's this image that gets creative like the father being super, you know Disciplinary and on the daughter and everything and I don't know I I try to go back beyond the 1950s like I go back to like the 1800s and if let's say your daughter Had a You know a liaison with a guy that she shouldn't have Well, the mother and the grandmother were tearing into the daughter and the father and the brothers were going after the guy You did it the father was maybe ashamed but The women were supposed to be doing the disciplining on that and the father's focus was on on the guy who took his his daughter's honor right and we need to kind of shift much more back into that stuff like You you stay in your lane if if she's gonna chew out that woman. I'm like Yeah, I'm gonna get the pop glory. You know, yeah Yeah That's what the majority of men do There's only a small number and I've I've learned because going back to they're they're gonna cry They're gonna be seen as a victim these predators play that card to enact a man's Mode they do that on purpose And in a lot that I found out Because we have a lot of fear a lot of group identities a lot of fear mongering that goes on it happens quite a bit in the black community Like they'll they'll use the racism thing This crazy woman over here will be like, oh, she's racist go get her, you know, and it's like You're gonna prey on that fear That's always a last resort because I thought that happened to me recently like racist anti-semite blah blah Like you lost you lost But it but it's a Deep-seated pre-existing fear that that man has that they grew up with in an environment that they were told by First their mothers that white people are blah blah blah like they They they find those vulnerabilities and those ways to get in there to then puppet these guys in any certain direction The good news is I do I do think that that is So much less powerful than it was five years ago I mean and I think within five years it will be I actually think it will be deconstructed within five years You think that you think that there's more. I'm sorry. I just I You think that there's more men paying attention to the manipulation tactics that women use 100 but I mean it even was more generally like because it's a lot of the left's political manipulation Is very much styled on feminine kind of manipulation, right? Because it's designed to keep men from Make them weaker and everything, right? So I think they've they've overdone it and so as a result Like we're we're starting to go through a deep programming by like or desensitization To that kind of stuff. So when someone calls you racist or someone calls you anti-semite or someone calls you sexist like It's increasingly means less and less to guys. So I think and I think it increasingly and part of that is because The groups that are, you know victimized Increasingly don't even identify with being victimized, right? And so that's all in a part across the board Yeah, right So to a certain extent though, and I'm only saying this because it's something I'm experiencing It's what I've found is and I've been saying it that the left went so far that everyone's going to be just I don't even care about politically correct at this point, right? Right the the issue is when you're specifically talking that's you're talking about leftist movement I'm talking about men being able to see a woman cry After she's manipulated everybody and to pinpoint. Oh, that's manipulation, right? I don't think that that's I have to disagree with that because I've seen I've been called We're not there yet Yeah, not that's the issue because I've been called like a I've been let me rephrase this I call out stupidity when I see it if you're a dating coach and you photoshop all your pictures and you don't look the same And you're telling other men to do the same thing which as we just have been talking about comes with a lot of potential repercussions Uh, I'm gonna call it stupid. I'm gonna call it is what it is, right in those situations I get called me too Meaning like I'm accusing a man of being predatory and all these things I've been accused of it probably about five times now each time clarified that I never did that But it's always from another woman Another woman that's crying another woman that's been called out another woman that's been And that's the part where it's like the specific question was Do men see this and I don't think that they do I don't I I think I mean if you're talking about the general population We we have a long way to go, but if you're talking about like trajectory It's definitely improved like I can even just see there's a lot of stuff going on recently with You know girl in the gym Who is you know trying to do a squall? I've seen that stuff going on for years and I remember like a few years ago it was like Everybody was on the back foot. You know, oh crap. We have to be sensitive to this She did this time. Everyone's like shut the fuck up. Yeah There's progress there's progress being made because it's it's so transparent. I mean you have literal prostitutes Complaining about guys objectify, right? Right, they took it too far and the veil is being lifted. There's a lot of work to do. Don't get me wrong Mika There's a lot of work to do but I like I like like where we are right now much better than I do Where we were a few years ago. I could see that Woody Johnson Woody long time. Uh, good to have you Hey, good evening everybody. How are you enjoying the uh, The conversation discourse so far. I'm curious Definitely, uh, it's it's a great convo People from a lot of different backgrounds and experience in the talking and you know, you got to show up to, you know, Tony's legendary comebacks You know after after nice long, uh, florida floridian slow breaks You know as as you would say But yeah, I'm definitely enjoying it. I'm you know, just uh, sorry for being late You know, I'm like one of those people that end up kind of showing late I'm on I'm on uh, white people time. You know show up late I do want I do want to I want to real quick I want to recognize the chat because I've been over especially over the past hour. I've been I've been um looking at the chat and I I appreciate the kind of the Pushback and you know, I saw a little little uh Little we'll say discourse with michael foster and somebody and but I appreciate you guys like speaking up in the chat Um, I'm not big on blocking people. I'll block somebody if it's just total bullshit But as far as like the conversation in the chat, it's been it's been interesting to me for sure You know, and I like to see like men Not being afraid to say okay I disagree with you on this or But I'm really enjoying the chat. I think it's really really It's engaging tonight and I like the fact that the chat can engage with Whether it's, you know, michael foster on the panel or somebody else So but I didn't want to recognize everybody that's there So but uh, oh, welcome. Uh, caduceus vital message Can we go chat man? Good to see you know, brother But we're not going to go that much longer, but I do want to go to woody woody What is your take on um because woody's kind of a fixture in the master? I know woody's a fixture on On good mother stream and many other streams and been on here a million times you guys are all familiar with him So what's your In the man of spear and and and I'll look at woody is not woody is not a content creator He's more of a a content participator. We'll call him So um woody, what's your take on on the topic tonight just straight up pulling in the man of spear I'll keep it nice short, uh and sweet You know it it is It is a factor, uh, you know and we can't really stop that from happening. It's uh, It's there regardless, you know, the growth is there Especially for female content creators And if they can make a space and acquire So much uh publicity so much attention Then, uh, I guess there hasn't people haven't I guess changed much I would say they're still attached to their the natural instincts. They're they're lizard part of the brain, you know And I mean, I would say it's a net positive Overall because somewhat there is a there's expansion of knowledge You know regardless of what it is, you know, and then I mean if you can compare I kind of compare Good mother on the base meter because she broke it, you know, so I don't expect anybody to Uh come close to that You know, uh, but aside from that I think it's a net positive net positive. It's anything that's 50% I guess plus that you're gaining from that You know, so in in my opinion It it is a net positive because the word's getting out there And that's how people slow slowly but maturely they find other channels Uh, and they kind of move on from that, you know, so that's all I got to say about that Yeah, I like that what you say. I've been saying that for a while about net positive And I think net positive with any content creator is important It's when you when you drop below that 50 percent barriers when it's all negative. So net positive Net positive to me is is bringing something good Into not just into we are talking about women in the man's first. So we're going to talk about bringing positive um content to men versus Coming into this space and feeding on that especially again, like I'll say it a million times the the base entry fee to Manisphere content is usually trauma that might not have the way it's been years ago But I see that that's the way it is now So net positive in any content creator is really important So that was a really good point woody. I know there's a lot of you know, when I was looking at comments when I posted this this stream on my channel and And on 21 studios, I was kind of looking at the comments in the chat To just to see what people were saying and there was Guys who are angry and I can tell you that um I am not going to like beat up a guy because he's angry and he's been through something This is his way of like getting it out there like fuck women right now And every guy is entitled to that. You know what fuck women right now I'm never going to take that But I did see some comments. So I don't think that's I don't think that's negative when a guy says that when he's had enough He's fucking done. He's like right now. This is what I feel. This is what I'm going to say Fuck it. I don't want to hear from a woman and to me. That's okay Hey, you know And that's a healthy part of repairing yourself and finding what you need to make yourself a better person Not just a better person, but a better man And I think that's the overall goal of manisphere content is to make men better men So that's kind of my take on that bad or michael foster. I don't know if you want guys want to bounce off that or woody I was going to add real quick to this that you know At the deeper you go into I guess a community or or or I guess a group of of content creators You know, I would say this this area is specifically there's a lot of good people that they they at least Portray it and and go forward with with being genuine, right? For example one time, you know It was a I guess not a debate more of a discussion with michael foster You know, he gave me the courtesy the time to to speak about that, you know, and he went further with that You know and even for example pat's open, you know to Criticism, you know, he got that before, you know on this and he's willing to to you know face first Dive into that, you know, and and that's what I do appreciate that There is ideologies that can't you know had that cannot their battles Online and and you know audience they would choose which one is right for them I guess that's about it Okay, your mic is a little scratchy again. What do you I know that you've got some issues with Whatever but sounds a little bit now so but go ahead one of the things just to I think it's important to reiterate it. I mean the manisphere Is ultimately Then you can quibble about what exact sections in the manisphere if you want to but Ultimately this is a fight against this is where like the counterculture the real counterculture exists. Yeah, and So we talk about like it's the manisphere But really what it is is is society like the potential potential vision of society not completely coalesced yet necessarily I mean, I do think that we have moved Much more from what I would call more like salon culture You know pre-revolution salon culture to like much more. Okay. What are you gonna do? You can actually do something like you're just gonna talk about theory because now it's really about embodying it living it acting it in you know Political cultural life this different way of being So we call it the manisphere now, but I think it's important to remember ultimately as an end goal This should be about changing society all together And so when We change society all together What we're looking at now is not like a space just for men. It's it is a new it is A new social structure And so I want to I want to say that and I also want to just add that there is There is always going to be male spaces within the broader manisphere There's always going to be individuals Like, you know myself who have who only work with men have like men only chats and I think if guys are like It's important for us to educate in in when necessary shame men if they are You know losing their way and getting pulled into some grifter scheme, right? That's that's just the open forum though There's going to be free discussion about that Men should be trying to get into close communities with other men and talking to other men and working through problems On a private basis. I think if you consider the you know male space some chat room You know some public chat room on the internet like you got to step it up to the next level You got to start to form Communications with people ideally in real life, but at the very least in private communication Where you can start to work through things. Otherwise, you're not actually trying to change you're just vain on the internet and Probably shouldn't be complaining about the fact that there's women who maybe dip in from time to time Like being pissed off at sometimes on a sidewalk So anyway, that's my my take Um, we're going to start wrapping it up. Um, I have to work tomorrow, but um, I think it's been awesome. I think uh I appreciate my uh, my main guest pat steadman pat. It's always always a pleasure chatting with you and Always great takes and insight on a lot of different topics. You know, we're not always talking about dating and relationships I think there's other important topics that we need to touch on um, I want to thank amanda and and minka tonight for coming on and jumping into the uh, the uh, Manusphere again with on my channel and 21 studios and hopefully you guys Hopefully you guys get some uh subscribers and guys that will come to your channel and kind of maybe Maybe look at what you're offering Okay, I I think that's important. Um, but I do want to go around the panel here real quick before we end and um I want to start with woody. Let's start with woody johnson woody Uh has always uh, appreciate everybody. This is the giving space You know all the all the love you can get and uh, this is I guess more like a rare more Corner of the of of this community, you know, but uh, nonetheless, I think it's uh, one of the best part of it Awesome. Thanks. I will go to amanda next good mother and and go ahead and let everybody know your channel and how they can find you That's real important. Um, it's just I think it's under gm currently. Um, but yeah It'll still pop up or see type and good Yeah, I have everything in uh the description of video from the channel and for me because channel and pat Yeah, if anybody has a university story that they would like to share there's a lot of people that come to my channel Um, just to kind of offload. Um, I've had quite a few women that currently work at institutions Kind of come on there and share their story. Of course, they're behind avatars because a lot of these people don't they have their their livelihood at stake, but Anybody wants to to share anything about that? They're more than welcome. Thanks for having me tony pat It was good to talk to you minka nice chatting michael foster. Thank you Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for coming on tonight woody I'm gonna go always woody always woody We had an argument about this when I met amanda 21. I'm like, hey, wait, what is my guy? She's like, no, he's my guy But Either woody's uh dropping some valuable nuggets or he's stirring that pot man He contributes a lot to conversations. Yeah, and that's good stuff. Yeah. Oh always always love having woody on That's why I sent him the link. I'm like, we gotta have woody johnson But um, let's go to michael foster next michael foster any final words on tonight stream and women in the man sphere I think um I think the world needs men. I think the world needs women. I think uh Man are terrible at being mothers and wives and women are terrible at being husbands and fathers and and I I feel stupid saying these basic things, but that's the time I live in and I My my wife brings so much to my boys and to my girls and I think if this is a place That guys can interface with women that are relatively normal It might be good for them. You know, I hear the way guys talk about women. I'm like, you don't Do you know women? Like all women are like that. That's you know, the awalt thing and uh And I'm like, are you just kind of you guys are living in a quarter, man You get out a little bit more and uh So I can see I can see a way it could go good. I think it's kind of hard not to get too cynical in this space, right? just because of the constant monetization constant use of people You know, I'm really uptight about that, you know I like what pat's saying is that It starts with the men As as the men go so goes the household as the household goes so goes society, right? And I think maybe it makes sense that men led the way into the manasphere and really now it's going to be about recapturing relationships and in family and In the right way people should interact and so maybe it's natural that the women came second Right and the men were here first and there could be some deeper conversations. I'd like to see A lot of people start getting married I'm not I'm like not big towel at all. I want everyone to get married Um, I want I want uh stable families. I want children with moms and dads I think it's the only way out of this They don't people to see you got to change the law first that that's going to take That's going to take a generation or two It's going to take more than one and so you have to have someone to take up your cause and so guys having an idea of what a normal woman's like and You know, you'll hear guys say like, you know women are like this. You're like, no No, they're not like you you spend too much time online So I don't know I could see it be a positive thing and If they're if they have poise and Femininity certainly be a good thing so There you go Michael foster, you know, it's always a pleasure having you on you're a good friend among Appreciate it. I always appreciate and value your time when you spend less here So it's super valuable and uh, I know you're busy with business and family But the fact that you take time to come on here and talk with us It's uh to me. It's um You can't put a you can't put a price on that, but I appreciate you. This is the the bleeding edge, man This is the tip of the spear. Let's see in your foster Yeah, thank you, buddy. Likewise. Let's uh, let's go to to minka Um, and your final thoughts on tonight's stream and um, and how people can find you, of course Um, I really appreciate you having the stream and having us on. Um It's uh, obviously not taken lightly. I think it's I think I can say for good mother and I'm both. It's really appreciated. Um And I think I've heard a lot of the things that I've been saying that I agree with Like the fact that like this is I think it's like a huge ploy that has brainwashed women to believe that we're victims and and Make men uh make women like men and make men weaker so that they can't fight against the totalitarianism, you know thing and it's I'm just going to leave it there if you want to come to my channel We talk to men to hear the stories about the men and what they've gone through that brought them to the manisphere And we also have in or we have discussions with women to try and Translate what's being said so that they can hear it in a nicer tone My hope is that more women and men will talk to each other because I I really think it's just a big huge confusion ball and I think that um, I still have a belief that women inherently still do want to Get married and have kids just because I'm a woman and I talk to women It's I I've talked to the ones that are the most proud of being escorts and all of that stuff and They still will cry at night alone So it's I really have a fundamental belief that like women do want men and I do believe men want women It's just the insanity and the repercussions that People have dealt with that are terrifying So all right. Well, I'm I'm you know what that's kind of the first time I heard Your I guess your mission on your channel Really? Sorry I'll just explain like that. So I it's it's really hard for me to explain I think it's important that you do Let's put it this way. I haven't heard you say like how you want to reach out to women And explain what men are saying. So I think that's oh I'm hoping that's a real positive influence on your channel and influence that you're giving to other women It is it's it's I can tell you this is that um, I'm not having any kind of I'm not doing fresh and fit. I'm not doing any of that stuff. It's It is I'm looking for women that I can talk to there's a lot of women that will Want to and they're gonna be crazy and ignorant and and cowards Not just cowards. It's just really crazy and ignorant. They really believe the crazy things that they're saying I'm not looking for those those. It's just I don't know what life and god has in store for you But you'll figure it out You get to the point too where sometimes you just got to give last rights to the dying and that's it and I'm a female. I'll never do I'll never give up We'll remember everything But sometimes there's there's just certain people you can't help and you have to right and that's what I mean It's okay, and then it is okay. And it's not the best way to help them is actually to cut them off Yeah, exactly. That's what I mean. Okay. So let me let me backtrack here, right? So there's when I came into this space the biggest issue that I see you some women doing Not good mother not myself is they come in and they say these men are mean to me. They need to change They need to be different. They need to stop talking this way and my rebuttal is like this is this is their space That's number one and number two. It's the man knows look at how they talk to each other. It's not very nice They are being nice to us when we come here But still apprehensive and rightfully so because of what it stands for It's and it is in fact to talk to women because we good mother is actually the reason that I came up with Okay, this is what I'm doing because when we talked about it the feminist movement was all about If you control the women you control the narrative and they knew that so they went in there and they were able to control the narrative And that's where we are now. We are we have been applauding the most incomprehensible demoralizing behavior that women have displayed publicly and clapping for it saying that's an independent female That's a she doesn't care blah blah blah blah right My issue with that is that the 18 year olds that are just graduating high school think that it's okay to do only fans That it's not considered porn because they saw one out of a hundred girls get married to a guy that's simping for her Right and they think that that is the reality and that's the general truth of what happens when really it's one out of a hundred girls and the rest of the 99 women have Aren't being pursued in that manner because there are repercussions Most men would not be okay with a woman that's been on camera doing things with other men It is gonna weird Just as a woman. Hopefully if you do love yourself and you are a good woman You would not want a man that has been with half of the city It's just not something that you'd want to touch Right. It's there's the comment. There's a uh, I like to call it just like I'm looking for the reasonability If there's a woman like I said the girl that had a lot of an attitude issue But she wants love. I wanted to talk to her if it's a woman that um is super like victim mentality But wants love I want to talk to her any woman that wants love and marriage I want to talk to them because those are the ones I can talk to that I can Change the wording I can make it nicer and they understand and they're wanting it and that's pat Sorry, michael. I actually really really really thank you for saying that because I've said it many times and men don't believe it. They think that women only want the six foot tall lots of money all of that And they don't realize that most women They we've been brainwashed to believe that's what we should be attaining Most women if you catch them in their younger years and they see a man that's going some even young any woman at any age If she sees a man that's on a mission Whatever that mission is if it's good or bad, whatever she's gonna be attracted to that That is a man with a purpose that is a man a woman can follow That is a man that like He'll be broke and she'll try and help like these stories are very very real and a lot of men don't believe it That's why I like the atmosphere because men are telling men to man up And it makes it number one. It's a you didn't ask the most important question Why are the women here? You guys made assumptions, but you didn't actually ask and I can tell you One is it's made me a better woman Aside from all the trolling and all the other stuff I have never been As feminine as I am in my life today. I've never been so agreeable with men. I've never been so understanding I've never been able to understand. I want to be someone's piece. I've never there's a lot of things How I treat myself has changed. It's it's fascinating That's number one and number two is I want my offspring to have a better world The world that we have today is crap and I'm a part of the problem because that's my generation that did it So now that's what my podcast is for. I want you to have children No, I don't have any children at all and I've never been married, but I am 31. So I'm over. I'm at the wall. I think I appreciate you coming on and talking and I hope that your your We'll just say your heart is in the right place when it comes to helping To me like I'll give a quick take on women in the man's sphere Women in the man's sphere most of the time should be worrying about helping women not men period That's kind of my quick hot take on that. So, but how can everybody find you? Oh, my channel some garbage at this My channel is called better biaches. You can also call me bb for appropriate If you don't feel comfortable But it was actually kind of fun too because there's a lot of men that are angry and they I kind of noticed it I like calm them down They're like who is this bb Um, sorry, I talk a lot and I do have the link for your channel in the description of the video on On my channel and on 21 studio So if people want to find you they can find you there same thing for the man the same thing with pat But I'll go to pat the guest of honor tonight and uh special guest um Any final thoughts on tonight's stream women in the man's sphere? You had some great great great dialogue during this whole string pass It's been a good conversation What I would say to guys is that I know a lot of you are in pain I mean so much of the substrate of the man's sphere is men in pain, right? and I know that A lot of guys take issues in particular things that I say because I can come across as Maybe uncaring or unsympathetic or You know Maybe even a collaborator. I don't know in some cases Which is not true But what I want is for you to think about What pain means When you're in pain It's because something's not functioning properly If your leg's broken you can get pissed off at the sidewalk when you step on You know when you try to walk on a broken leg you can get pissed off at the sidewalk because that puts pressure on the break Or you can fix the broken leg so you can walk on it again and I think there's The the point of all this stuff is not about ultimately Male-only spaces or ultimately female-only spaces The point of this is to make a better society Those are means to an end. They're things that should exist in a healthy society But they're ultimately means to an end and we have to keep our focus on that You have pain heal yourself And then be part of the solution See what you can build see what you can carry see how you can contribute things are changing And part of growth and part of maturity Is being able to evolve with them the manisphere has been evolving as time's gone on as The cultural apparatus around it has changed and I'll be honest. I I view this as kind of like wartime footing right now And we don't have time anymore For guys you can't figure out how to heal themselves and be part of the solution We just don't have time for it and that's not because The pain isn't real It's just because we got heavy lifting to do and we need all the All the legs we can carry all the legs. We have They carry it so I encourage guys to get in the fight and to focus on the big picture here women aren't the enemy Women were sold a bill of goods too and I think you know Amanda minka Have really hopefully done a good job even if you don't agree with everything right They've done a good job at least of showing that their heart's in the right place that we are trying to work on this as a team together ultimately so I think we'll get there Excellent pat excellent take Awesome panel tonight. Thank you guys for jumping on. Thank you pat. Thank you minka. Thank you michael foster jumping on Amanda and woody johnson, of course But uh great stream tonight good conversation and I think there's going to be more to this conversation. I really do I think this I think there could be a part two to this and we might have to do that sometime soon But I want to thank everybody from 21 studios joining us tonight again. I'm tony bruno if you don't know me I'm just a construction guy That likes to have conversations. That's it. That's all I do So but uh, I do appreciate everybody that came to my channel tonight. It's been a while. I'll continue to do some more streams Hopefully like I said, I want to haven't talked to him yet, but jeff yunger. You're gonna be in the uh You're gonna be in the queue also dr. Sean smith. I know I want to have him on soon always a great get But I do want to hopefully provide some value to men and women and that's kind of my mission I don't make any money off this I do this because I want to and to have good conversations With different people you might not like the people on my panel sometimes or like what they have to say But that's a part of it. You know, if you're a man deal with it That's all I got to say but I do appreciate everybody coming on tonight and uh, I'll see you soon on the next reality check Thursday night reality check Peace cheers everybody and have a great evening and thank you for joining us Good night night