 وَإِنْ تَعْجَبْ فَعْجَبٌ قَوْلُهُمْ أَيْذَا كُنَّا تُرَابًا أَيْنَا لَفِي خَلْقٍ جَدِيد أولائك الذين كفرو بربهم وولائك الأغلال في عناقهم وولائك أصحاب النار في يا خالد الحمد لله رب العالمين والسلاة والسلام على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أما بعد السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته جزاك الله خيراً for joining me once again on the hot seat podcast last time we were here we discussed the topic of homosexuality and navigating through the LGBTQ movement within the religion of Islam one of the things that came up through that podcast naturally was the issue of living amongst the non-muslims in the west and it was actually one of your proposed solutions to deal with the topic in its entirety was to leave and that's why today what I thought would be relevant would be to discuss the topic of is hijra obligatory so the question that I want us to answer together is not whether hijra is a good thing it's whether it is obligatory upon the Muslims and I'd really like to focus our conversation around that point in particular I want to start again by giving you the floor and allow you to open the conversation the way you deem for it الحمد لله رب العالمين له الحمد الحسن والثناء الجميل وانشد أن لا إله إلا الله وحده لا شريك له يقول الحقا وهو يهدي السبيل واشد أن محمداً عبده ورسوله صلى الله عليه وعلى آله وأصحابه والتابعين لهم بحسان إلى يوم الدين أما بعد قبل أن أتحدث عن أجوب الهيجرح من بلاد الكفري ومجموعة ومجموعة العالمين ومجموعة العالمين أريد أن أتحدث عن شيء مهم that's connected to the concept of hijra and that is the concept known as الولاء والبراء love and hate association and disassociation الله سبحانه وتعالى He gave a description for the believers whether they be male believers or female believers الله سبحانه وتعالى He said والمؤمنون والمؤمنات the believing men and the believing women are بعضهم أولياء وبعض some of them are allies to the other they are allies to one another they are to each other guardians and they are protecting friends to one another الله is describing us with that description يأمرون بالمعروف وينهون عن المنكر they call each other to the good and they prohibit one another from the evil ويقيمون الصلاة and they establish the prayer and they give the zakat ويطيعون الله ورسوله الله سبحانه وتعالى والولاء واله يرحمه الله الله يقول these are the ones who Allah is going to bestow upon them His mercy إن الله عزيز الحكيم Verily Allah is عزيز when He wants something to happen it will happen the way He wants it to happen حكيم وائز الله تبارك وتعالى is almighty and all wise at the beginning of that verse it says the believing the believers both men and women are one to one another they are also allies and they are protecting friends الله سبحانه وتعالى warned us from giving that characteristics that trait that quality to the non-muslims الله سبحانه وتعالى says in the Quran يأي الذين آمنوا those of you who believe لا تتخذوا الكافرين أو لياء من دون المؤمنين أتريدون أن تجعلوا لله عليكم سلطانا مبينة O you believers الله has took into the believers do not take the disbelievers as allies instead of the believers and then الله تبارك وتعالى He said أتريدونه do you want أن تجعلوا لله عليكم سلطانا مبينة do you want to give الله عز وجل a solid proof against you for Him to punish you سبحانه وتعالى also الله تبارك وتعالى He referred to it as hypocrisy to give this quality of allying taking close friends protecting friends guardians to the non-muslims الله سبحانه وتعالى says give a good news of a painful punishment to the hypocrites what is the reason الذين يتخذون الكافرين أو لياء من دون المؤمنين they chose disbelievers as allies instead of the believers and then الله تبارك وتعالى He said are they looking or are they seeking honor and protection and power are they seeking that من دون المؤمنين besides the believers is that what they are looking for then الله تبارك وتعالى He said verily all honor and power belongs to Allah the honor that they are looking for the power that they are looking for they can get that from Allah and their brothers and their sisters in faith why would they look for it in the non-muslims if you ponder that last part of the verse where الله says are they looking for honor and power from the non-muslims the majority or a large quantity let me say of the people who have gone to the lands of the disbelievers they've gone there to get honor power power and honor comes in different forms and shapes sometimes it could be through money and etc people going there are you looking for honor there's no harm in trying to get money from those lands and that's not my argument but I'm saying is that if that is in the cost and you're losing your religion you're losing your faith and your Eman definitely will fall under this ayah and that's a big if that we need to discuss if that is the case that people who go there are definitely going to lose their Eman their religion I want to dissect this introduction a little bit and I think it deserves its own episode on its own but I do want to go into a little bit more detail in terms of this word which came up in many of the ayahs that you've cited what does that mean exactly the word has many many meanings that's why whenever I was translating the verse I kept saying allies guardians protecting friends giving victory aiding supporting all of these meanings the word ولي أم أولياء has those meanings for example يَا إِلُذِينَ عَمَنُوا لَا تَتَّخِذُوا أَمَلَا تَتَّخِذُوا الْكَافِيرِينَ أولياءَ امِن دون المؤمنينة here it means do not take the non-Muslims the disbelievers as your allies whereas when he says والمؤمنون والمؤمنون والمؤمنات بعضهم أولياء وبعض here it means they are guardians for one another and they are protecting friends for one another so that meaning of the word أولياء is a very general meaning and هجرة is a form from the forms of الولاء والبرا what do you mean by that exactly the word الولاء والبرا is a very general term it comes in different forms different ways hundreds different hundreds forms fall under والاء they are all not the same ruling but remaining in the lands of the disbelievers when you can't implement your religion staying with them the scholars they added to the chapter of الولاء والبرا it falls under that concept of association and disassociation loving and hating and that's why I chose to speak about that as an introduction before we even go to the concept of هجرة because this concept of الولاء والبرا is what's died out in many Muslims hearts many Muslims don't have it وليذلك الله سبحانه وتعالى he mentioned he says لا يتخذوا المؤمنونة they do not take the believers don't do this this is not a trait of the believers that they take what يتخذوا المؤمنون اولياء من دون المؤمنين that they believing man takes an ally as a disbelieving man الله then says ومن يفعل ذلك anyone who does this who takes the non-Muslims as allies protecting friends guardians الله says فليس من الله في شيئ he has nothing to hope for from الله سبحانه وتعالى unless إلا أن تتقوا منهم تقا the exception here is that you are being precaution against their tyranny and if you're doing it because they put you under a duress and they coerced you then you're forced to fall under this with them and then Allah says and Allah warns you about himself وإلى الله المصير and everyone is going to be finally returning to الله سبحانه وتعالى I just want to mention one particular hadith the messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم after the battle of khaybar the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم he appointed the noble companion عبد الله بن رواحة to go and divide and make sure the dividing of the crops were done correctly the Jews and the believers that the crops were done correctly so the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم he delegated this responsibility to the noble companion عبد الله بن رواحة he said go and you check if these people are doing a good job in dividing the crops fairly so the Jews they thought deeply about this issue and so what they did is they tried to bribe عبد الله بن رواحة they said to him we're going to give you they rather they collected the jewelry from their women and they brought it to him and they said this is for you from now on was don't look at when we scale and we bring you the measurement don't double check it just turn a blind eye basically so they bribed him and عبد الله بن رواحة he responded he said يا معشرة يهود oh Jews أنتم أبغض الخلق إليه you are the most hated people to me I hate you guys so much قتلتم الأنبياء you guys have killed the prophets يعني قتلتم أنبياء الله the prophets of Allah you kill them وكدبتم على الله and you have lied about Allah عز و جل وليس يحملني بغضي إياكم أن أحيف عليكم and my hate for you will not in any way shape or form make me be unjust towards you I will not deal with you in an unjust way so again us hating them doesn't mean that we're going to oppress them we're going to wrong them we're going to harm them it doesn't mean that it just means this is a a credo thing for us you guys have disbelieved in Allah you have lied about the prophet عليه الصلاة والسلام and insulted him you have يعني disbelieved in Allah تبارك و تعالى but our hate for you will not make us do anything unjustly towards you and Imam Malik narrated that in his Mu'attah in Kitabul مساقات أحمد narrated in his Musnad بساند صحيح basically he's acting upon the ayah و لا يجري منكم شناءان قومن على أن لا تعديله إعديله أقرب للتقوى الله تبارك و تعالى he says و لا يجري منكم شناءان قومن كما يطلق عملي و عملية ما أريد أن أفهمه هو أننا نرى أنك كنت في الكياء و كنت في الكياء عندما نذهب إلى هذه المنطقة و نتبع with them هذه الأطباء التي نتحدث عنها هذه الأطباء are clear cards they are at the source which are محكمة كريستو clear texts these texts will generally be abandoned و محكمة كريستو بطريقة أنك تذهب إلى المنطقة you work with mike and steve don't جانو Daniel is your friend your is a colleague at work some sort of love will go into the heart of yours towards him by the way this man who disbelieves in الله he doesn't believe in your prophet to be a true prophet and from Allah سبحانه وتعالى how does your heart give you again it doesn't mean when we say that you do not love these people it doesn't mean we hurt them doesn't mean we insult them it doesn't mean we're unjust towards them it means I cannot come to love someone who الله and his messenger are not their first priority but you're acting like the alternative solution is to be in a land where you don't have to interact with non-muslims at all and that's not the reality either we also live in a muslim country right now before we go into the concept of whether we go to the land whether we're going to find a land where we can my first point that I want to stress on is that this happens that these ayats that I recited these are the sources that I read you can't generally implement it I had a class one time I was teaching and it was a student a group of students of mine and what's his name uh Stephen Hawkins passed away and I did a khutbah on this issue I spoke about it and I was informing the muslims that we have to understand if a person dies as a non-muslim we don't say a resting piece we also have to understand that the the ayats and the verses in the Quran are crystal clear that the non-muslims are not going to go to jannah and etc and so I had a class before that Friday khutbah and I was informing them that this is what my khutbah is going to be about I was honestly taken back when I found براءة أعجابين في that class who have been studying with me for a very good time when I opened up to them and they oh sorry they opened up to me and started to discuss these issues with me they said look I have friends in my class you know I've got فولان and فولان and فولان and فولان in my class and these people are very nice to me they've named non-muslim people they're very nice to me they care for me I love them why do I care about their religion why do I why what's the problem with their religion they they can believe what they want in other words this muslim sister or this muslim brother يعني the concept of ترحيد the oneness of Allah Allah being worshipped alone in the face of this the scene that he has the earth is about to crack because of that statement and he speaks to that he has a child I'm not even the one who doesn't even believe Allah exists سبحانه وتعالى يعني those people can they say that ترحيد will settle in their heart properly will they come with these I asked that we recited and the word بطانة by the way it means do not take an intimate sincere friend that's what the word بطانة means بداة البضاء من أفوائي مما تقفي صدورهم أكبر قد بينا لكم الآيات إن كنتم تعقلون الله says that سبحانه وتعالى that do not take them as يعني sincere friends revealing to them your secret thoughts these people they talk to them socialize on them with them in groups so before we even go into the concept of hydra or not the concept of الولا والبرا within the muslims within sorry the lands of the non-muslims and coexisting with them and يعني staying with them it weakens this concept says do not yield to the disbelievers and the hypocrites overlook the annoyance and put your trust in Allah for Allah is sufficient as a trustee over our affairs اليمام العالوسي commented on that best and he really touched me ponder here اليمام العالوسي he said نهى عن مداراته في أمر الدعوة we he said آية ولا تطع الكافرينة do not obey the disbelievers يعني الله is telling the prophet Muhammad in Makkah do not obey the disbelievers who are requesting for you to stop preaching الله says ولا تطع الكافرينة don't obey them والمنافقين and don't obey the hypocrites ودعا عداهم you know overlook their annoyance and what they're doing to you rely on الله تبارك و تعالى الله is enough for you محمد اليمام العالوسي رحمه الله he's saying نهى عن مداراته the prophet was prohibited from trying to please them in leaving off what they want him to leave off في أمر الدعوة و لين الجانب they wanted him to be soft towards them في التبليغ والمسامحة في الإندار they were like Muhammad look your message is a bit too strong it's too hard softening and weakening for us I know people in my university that I studied in my school we wouldn't preach to these people we all know like you know it's just long let's not do that let them believe what they want not only that we feel pressured into hiding even our some people who are practicing have to hide their salah and they don't come out to do it in public or they don't say look bro I need to go to pray even the ones who pray they don't so there's all of those factors before we even go to the concept of hijrah that's there okay my last question on the issue before we move on to the topic of hijrah in a bit more detail and what I'm trying to do is separate your personal experiences like you said I had some students that told me I had this I experienced this in university just because you've had these experiences it doesn't mean that the whole of the UK is like this as you I'm sure you'd admit my question is do you think that maybe basically a personal experience is you're taking this a bit extreme in the sense that there are obviously different levels of love you love a lioness messenger in one way you love your family your your mother in another way your wife in another way your friends in another way there are lovers of different types and just it doesn't mean you don't have to take a disbelief as an intimate close loving friend advisor sincere advisor you don't have to do that but at the same time doesn't mean you jump on the other end of the spectrum and say I cannot live in the same country as these guys that for me is like jumping from one extreme to another surely there's a middle path that can be achieved here so now this moves us swiftly on to another point which is the concept of hijrah okay which is somebody might say okay you know all those verses that you spoke about I agree but I can be in a land where I live with these people but I have hate for them I don't like them I say that is at the time that we're living in today it's very very hard to claim that and the concept of because the western countries now are working towards assimilating the Muslims with the non-Muslims what do you mean by that you see there's the concept of integration and assimilation a lot of Muslims believe I just you know integrate with society you know I do my part in society I have my beliefs they have their beliefs I don't necessarily have to agree with them they don't have to agree with me لكم دينكم وليه دين وهاكذا but that's not the case anymore it was maybe many years back but right now it's become a different story now it's about assimilating with society they're forcing you they're forcing you to accept the British values even they don't have a got a definition for what British values are but they're imposing on to you saying that you have to accept the British values and Muslims are being put in situations where they're asked are you a Muslim first or are you a British first but these are easy questions to answer my Muslim first like what's the issue but that's you not being loyal to the country that you claim to be from you see that's what Muslims are now by saying that statement you're a foreigner from us now again that's very extreme that's what I'm saying like there's extreme thoughts go around your head about the way the UK is for example when I know many Muslims and again I don't want to talk about my personal experience but there are many Muslims who live in the UK have a nine to five job they go to the Masjid مغرب أشار فجر they're practicing their religion and I think that's really where the crux of the issue is because you mentioned this before هجر becomes a bigotry if you are unable to practice your religion is that understanding yeah yeah okay what's the evidence for that first of all okay let me now take a step back and then I'll come back to the question without dismissing your question first of all we have the concept known as هجر what does هجر actually mean ألمان ببن العرب الماليك رحم الله defined the term هجر he said that هجر means first of all before I go into that definition of إمن العرب he just free first of all three types because whatever type we're talking about the definition is going to be for that so there's three types of هجر there's هجر of عمل سو you do هجر from evil action which we did in our previous podcast we spoke about the concept of innovation once we spoke about the issue of how we spoke about homosexuality in our last podcast so these are evil actions that we need to boycott and stay away from that's the type of هجر the second type of هجر is هجر to بلد سو migrating from an evil land just so you know الله is the one who created this land this world that we're in and parts of it الله virtue the part over another part and in the world the earth is not all the same to الله تبارك وتعالى و لذلك ألمان مسلم narrated in صحيح من حديث أبي هوريرا أحب البلادي إلى الله مساجدها وأبغض البلادي إلى الله أسواقها that the most beloved places to الله تبارك وتعالى on this earth is the messagids and the most hated places to الله تبارك وتعالى is the markets so one can't say how's that fair الله created the whole entire world how can he Allah chooses و ربك يخلق وما يشاء و يخطار he chose land this place is better than this place and this place is better than the place the third type of hijra is hijra to أصحاب السوء migrating and leaving and staying away from evil people and evidence for that is وصبر نفسك مع اللدينا يدعونا ربهم بالغاديات والعشي يريدون واتشع be patient with the righteous people and be with the righteous people and all the evidences that talk about befriending the righteous people المروا على ديني خليدي the persons of the religion of his friend so look at who you take as a friend all of those evidences apply but we here are going to be speaking about two types of hijra and that is hijra to بلد السوء migrating from the evil land and also migrating from the people who are evil okay ابن العربي رحمه الله he explained what it means to do hijra from evil land or to do hijra he said hijra means the type of hijra we're talking about is from the land he said that type is called and hijra to هي الخروج من دار الحرب إلى دار الإسلام it is to leave the land of the disbelievers by the way دار الحرب is referred to as كل بقعة it is every part of the earth where أحكام الكفر is فيها ظاهر أم ظاهرة where the rulings of the non-muslims is apparent it's not a state of war دار الحرب no no it is not necessarily what does حرب mean it's used as دار الحرب because the Muslims if they don't have a covenant with you and you're not paying money so there's no أحد written for you and there's also not a you're not paying the money that you need to be paying there's no contract and there's no money being paid then the only third option is دار الحرب whether there's an actual حرب going on or not بغض النظر if it's not a contract between the two lands or there isn't one in the non-muslim land it's not paying a fee and it's not paying the money then it's considered to be دار الحرب okay a lot of people think دار الحرب only means when there is an ongoing fight between those two lands no, not necessarily it doesn't mean that so you do هجر from يعني دار لند you leave it and you walk away from it دار الى دار الإسلام to a land of Islam إبن العرب الماليكي he carries on saying وكانت فرض ضن and it was an obligation في أحد النبيه at the time of the Prophet ﷺ وستمرت بعده and he carried on لمن خاف على نفسه the one who faced for himself so this became an obligation to leave the evil land you're saying who said that but the Prophet ﷺ said he clearly said there is no hijra after the conquest of Mecca I'd rather listen to him than إبن العرب the Prophet ﷺ when he said وإذا ستنفر تنفر أوك مقال عليه الصلاة والسلام لا هجرة بعد الفتح means there's no hijra after the conquest of Mecca to Mecca from Mecca okay where are you getting this from Mecca for you just adding that into the narration the Prophet ﷺ the same the same issue that you're saying the Prophet ﷺ responded to it the Prophet ﷺ he said لا تنقطعوا الهجرة حتى تنقطعوا التوبة ولا تنقطعوا التوبة حتى تغرب الشمس من مغربية أوك مقال عليه الصلاة والسلام the Prophet ﷺ said هجرة will not stop until the repentance stops and the repentance won't stop until the sun comes from the opposite direction so why is it ناسي خنمان سوخ that one came first and in the conquest of Mecca happened and then he came with this narration saying that there is no hijra now the scholars they say والجمع واجبوا المتامة ناسي خنمان if we can bring the two evidences together that takes precedence over the concept of ablution can we call it one says there's no hijra one says hijra will never stop there is no way to reconcile it so this is the way to reconcile it we say لا هجرة بعد الفتح there is no hijra after the conquest of Mecca from Mecca يعني there's no hijra that someone needs to do from Mecca anymore لأنه صار دارو إسلامين Mecca has now become a land of Islam it's been it's considered now to be دارو إسلام the Muslims conquered it they conquered it and took over it and now it's دارو إسلام so no one has to migrate from Mecca like they were before but the hijra is like consistent and it's forever going also the great Imam الإمام زكريل أنصاري الشافع اسكولين اسكتاب أسن المطالب he says تجيبوا الهجرة the hijra is obligatory من داري الكفري from the land of the disbelievers إلى داري الإسلام to the lands of the believers على مستطيع إن عجزة عن إغاري دينه you mentioned two conditions that you asked the one who has the ability who has the ability and is unable to practice his religion okay that's a key sticking point so now here the question is two conditions when they're present the hijra becomes wajib يعني you are سنة تلسين that land the first one is you can't practice your religion the second one is you have the ability to leave that land of the disbelievers okay let's go into that first condition you are unable to practice your deen beautiful places like china for example the Muslims have been oppressed openly they've been put in concentration camps i agree with you that is a place where you are unable to practice the deen but to like put that on places like uk and the us where you can openly pray you can fast you can do all of your obligations how are you now saying that is obligatory to make hijra from those places when it doesn't even meet in first condition so what does it mean the concept or what does it mean إبهار الدين that you can show your religion you can practice your religion what does it mean great scholars have commented explained what it means it means two things the first one is إعلان وشائر الإسلام that you can symbolize you can bring it to the open the symbols of islam in its totality not portions of it okay like the other and the صلاة and the sia the إعلان I'll ask you now can in the uk we do the إعلان in the open there are some massage that can yeah but in the whole entire uk in the whole entire uk no you can't the massage that can I only know of maybe there can be other massage I'm not saying their reasons but there's only one mystery I know in the uk that does it the same إسلام the mystery do you know any other mystery no I don't know any other so we have in the entire united kingdom for now and as much as me and you know sure only one mystery that's basically open to do them that's considered شعائر the symbols of islam that's the biggest symbol يعني the messengers صلى الله عليه وسلم كان لا يغار the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم he was never one who would wage war to a land or a people unless he had the إعلان from them when he had the إعلان from them he would then wage war on that land because he would be considered a land of the disbelievers صلى الله عليه وسلم when he heard the إعلان from them and then he'd wage war he wouldn't he wouldn't wage war okay fine okay so the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم would listen to that land right right right right right he would wait if there's إعلان done for salahs if he realized that these people they they they done إعلان for he wouldn't wage war on them so the first symbol that is implemented islam is the إعلان upon the here we can't do it while the church is over there and by the way keeping in mind that you can now is not a christian country it's a secular country but the church is allowed to have their bells like in the messages don't okay how does that affect anybody other than the madame i'm a normal i can i can i can i can grow a bit i can wear a soap i can live my life no but you said that you can implement your religion yes i can implement my religion i don't care about the إعلان being called i can implement my religion i'm not calling the إعلان it's not it's nothing to do with me implementing my religion i pray timetable i know when the prayers or suddenly you implementing you implement your religion means that you can hear the إعلان in the open a land where you can't hear the إعلان in can't hear it from the open that land i just said to you is not a land where islam can be practiced so i live in a muslim country and i'm living in the desert and there's no masjid near me i can't hear the إعلان in the open and suddenly i'm deficient in implementing my religion and i have to leave that part of a muslim country which is the prophet told the sahabi he said if you go to the desert and you're alone the prophet said you do the إعلان so the person does i can do that in my house in the uk but that's my point you've you see it's it's it's it's it's it's you're doing an analogy with two situations which are totally different why a person who's in the desert who has no other way and no one's stopping him do the إعلان it's your choice work if you want him to get a microphone shout it if you want scream if you want no one's stopping you there a masjid where it's told it's built for the sake of Allah constructed constructed sorry to for people to pray they're told you can't have your إعلان is loud يعني شيق بنو باعز رحم الله let me show you something شيق بنو باعز رحم الله تعاله was asked it wasn't just him it was a legend a question was put to them from the united kingdom the question was put to them the question was شيق we live in a land the uk but it's a non-muslim country and we do not have the إعلان loud are we sinners for that or are we not they were expecting yeah you're a sinner or you're not a sinner that's what they were expecting they were not expecting any other answer from the sheikh the sheikh and the by the way the hey it's not just ابنو باعز it was actually ابنو باعز ابقى ربو زي شقصال حلفوز يعني the the members of the legend the fatwa برئاسة الشيخ ابنو باعز the fatwa came back to them as what you staying in that land in the first place is wrong you remaining in that land and staying in that land is wrong usland is wrong شيق بنو باعز رحم الله was a noble scholar but with all due respect to him and the other scholars are part of the legend they don't know the reality of the west and that's part of the issue they're trying to give a fatwa about a region a place in the world that they don't really know the reality of it what's what's the what reality does he need to know شيق بنو باعز about whether this land is a land of islam or a land of disbelief يعني is it different from what the prophet went through in Makkah than the Muslims that are living in the west right now I'll give you an example of what context can do if you're going to go down the route of the al-Masey you're going to fall into trouble because there are other scholars who actually visited the UK and for them they obviously have more knowledge of the UK than someone who's never visited the UK and that's just common sense شيخ صالح صحيمي for example he visited the UK and he told the people do not make it sure stay here it's fine I would much rather listen to him who's actually got experience of visiting the UK seeing the UK walking on the UK than someone who's never been to the UK that just makes that just makes sense and that's a scholar that you affirm is a Salafi scholar someone you look up to someone you respect so why are you going to pick and choose your scholars now okay the point I first want to speak about is the issue of knowing whether a land you should do hydro from a land or not the scholar's already يعني already يعني شيخ برباز or شيخ بخلاب وزيد or شيخ صالح or any other scholar them having to travel to the UK is not a mess ألا you could use as an argument the point being it's not an issue that changes over time there are issues that you're right I would say you know what fair enough this particular issue that the sort of the mess ألا it needs more the scholar hasn't seen it he needs more perception of it but شيخ برباز was put to him a question from the first symbol as a Muslim after he said الشيخ صالح الله شهده محمده رسول الله is a Salah the addan for that Salah is not can't be done loud he already from there he knows that Islam cannot be إعلانوا شعائر الإسلام is not present but شيخ صالح صحيمي also knew that and he wrote otherwise so how do you recognize so what we say is that if great scholars أهل العلم people of knowledge have a discussion on issue we say no one person statement is a hujja a proof شيخ مرباز if he say something we look into it we agree with it if it's in line with evidences or not I'm now gonna ask you the scholars are unanimously agree in agreement by the way this إجماع was transmitted so إجماع is different عبداللطيف is Haq both who are the children of عبداللحمان ابن حسن حمد ابن عاتيخ محمد ببراهيم عبداللحمان ناصل السعودي إبن كثير transmit to the إجماع as well also بذودينا العيني transmit to the إجماع that if a person cannot symbolize Islam that that land يعني إبهارو دين you can't show your religion in that land it falls under not being able to implement your religion they look they transmitted a consensus the question here is practicing your religion is a very broad statement the question before that is how do you know of this إجماع but شيخ صالح سخيمي doesn't know of this إجماع how did that happen I cannot speak for what the sheikh understands I feel sorry I cannot speak on what the sheikh knows or not again I'm not him it's not my he wasn't the only one by the way you know that way yeah I thought when I came to the UK as well so I'm not enforced to I'm personally not enforced to follow an opinion of a scholar merely because he gave that فاتوة يعني that's important for you to understand his كلام is not أحبجة كلام العلماء يحتجوا لها ولا يحتجوا بها شيخ بلباس كلام is not أحبجة in and within itself I agree ولا شيخ صالح سخيمي ولا شيخ فوزان ولا غيرهم ولا غيرهم I agree ما I'm saying to you here we have a اجمع pay attention here we have a consensus from those scholars I mentioned like عبداللطيف ابن عبداللرحمان ابن حسن آل الشيخ we have إسحق ابن عبداللرحمان ابن حسن آل الشيخ we have محمد ابن عتيق we have محمد ابراهيم آل الشيخ we have عبداللرحمان ناصر السعود we have ابنه كثير and we have بدل دين العيني all of whom said the first condition where hijra becomes obligatory is عدم القدرة على إظهار الدين they all transmitted a unanimous agreement اجمع شيخ صالحة سوحي مو somebody else said this land you can still stay here we say practicing islam is still not present here why is it not present here because the first thing that determines a land to be a land where islam is practice or not is the adhan that's the first thing that's the like شعائر الإسلام the first شعيرة of islam is the adhan I'm going to come to all the other points that prove that this land is a muslim's carnival but I don't want this one to be taken very lightly okay there are many other points I can bring but those are the the proof is on the side of those scholars who have said are you sure they're talking about the adhan out loud not just the adhan in the mushroom someone proclaiming the adhan in the mushroom is still I just said to you لجنة دعيمة by the way don't just give a fatwa like that they revise an issue they get researchers to send them detailed research لجنة دعيمة are not just عولة مادة I've come together they're a verdict it's considered official government stated it's legalized but regardless of their fatwa I'm talking about إجما no but I'm saying to you ministries countries don't just you know countries don't just pass laws they revise this issue the consequences but they've got lawmakers they've got all of this in place these عولة مادة don't just they don't just give a fatwa on UK and America and etc there are people who bring these information to them deeply and I and you you and I both know more than any علم who visits the UK that Islam cannot be fully practice in these countries that's many examples I'll give you by the way the second condition I didn't mention it which is you've been able to speak against and condemn and critique the belief of the disbelievers whether it be their secular belief whether it be their religious beliefs you can say you're wrong it's wrong it goes against this it goes against that in the Quran and now you can places like the UK where they have the freedom of speech at that's not an issue right they've got that act written but when it comes to really boots on the ground are people actually feeling that freedom no that's that's not that's not the truth a lot of people are prevented from saying certain things يعني مسجد in the UK for example the charity commission will shut down the the mystery the charity يعني approval of that مسجد if there's a certain خطيب who comes he hasn't said anything violent by the way all he has said is that we Muslims believe this regarding maybe for example homosexuals or feminists we believe this regarding this or we believe the concept of الولا والبراون or whatnot but again you're talking about a very small percentage of people like the دعات the خطيب who are actually given lectures but then take that ruling just because he's restricted in what he says for natural reasons like hate speech which obviously is not a good thing for reasons like that to generalize a ruling to the general normal person who is not required to be on the pulpit and say that he also has to leave the country that's like extremism don't you understand that the the Muslims the Muslim community who are living in the UK they can't live without the the دعات and the مشايخ we're giving دعوة for them who are reminding them of Allah in the day of judgment if they're silenced so the people are just going to live their lives based on what they drink what they eat the income they make what about the life of this the life of their hearts and the إيمان the خطابة are important components for the community they don't have to speak about those controversial topics but they can give reminders about the rest of Islam about good deeds praying fasting they want to speak about all matters of religion Allah says او تقولوا في سلم كافة into Islam in its brutality يعني we don't speak about تؤمنون ببعض الكتاب وتكفونون ببعض we believe some of the verses and we abandon the rest we don't we explain Islam in in all of its totality from beginning to end we say everything ابطالو ديني المشركينة لا you can't speak about their values why are they right now pushing for people to assimilate you have to all become one the whole concept of I believe this you believe that let's agree to disagree is what they're fighting against to be honest you know like I know we're gonna go and I want to personally go into the issue of the Muslim countries a lot more because obviously if you're going to identify a problem you have to have a practical solution and I want to go into a lot more but just one thing that comes to mind right now in the Muslim countries it's even harder to give Da'wah you have to have all kinds of approvals you don't have this freedom of speech for me isn't that more of an issue in the Muslim country where you're restricted in what you can say about calling to Allah and his Deen then in a Western country where you're open to give Da'wah as you want I disagree unequivocally with that I believe Muslim countries are more open for you to give Da'wah as long as your Da'wah is not causing violence that's basically what the UK say but that's not where it is then their concept is Islam is the problem it's a cancer in the community I mean I can name so many different du'ads who are not violent who will never accept violence who'll never kill or harm an innocent person who'd spent their time and their energy speaking extremism fighting مع ذلك they are banned from particular places they're told they can't do lectures here and this is a حقيقة a reality we know we've lived it we've seen it okay so what you're saying is that the scholars are unanimously agreed that if you are unable to practice your religion it is obligatory to make hijra and the definition of being unable to practice your religion breaks down into two number one that you have to be able to show the symbols of Islam like the other one for example and number two that you have to be able to point out the falsehood of the non-Muslims in that country and from your perspective countries like again let's leave countries like China to aside are you actually saying countries like the UK and the US you're not even able to do either of these things no you're not able to my question goes back to the person who is living as an average Joe or an average Mohammed in these countries I'm not required to call the other out like are you saying that I'm sinning for being in this country just because I can't hear the Adhan or and I don't need to go on a mimbar and talk about homosexuality but I can do this I can pray I can fast I can raise my children the right way I can read Quran I'm not restricted in any of my acts of worship on the apparent and you're telling me that I still can't practice my Deen that's hard for me to swallow the answer to that question of yours is in the statement of Allah سبحانه وتعالى الله says فتهاجلوا فيها فأولائك فا بأッواءهم جهن موسائط مصيرا إلا المستغفين من الرجال والنساء والولدان والولدان لا يستطيعون حيلة ولا يهدون سبيلة فأولائك عس الله أن يعفوا عنهم وكان الله وعفو ونغفورة الله سبحانه وتعالى اكثر اكثر من رضا الناس كن تتضمه الشخم will take them and they will say to them قال stairs ما كانتهم What were you up on What were you in What was your story ماذا سيحدث؟ أعلم أن أعلم أن أعلم why these people have ended up going to the hellfire Why are you heading to the hellfire? لذا أنت تعلم about the hellfire You're not ahead of the hellfire You know it's a very serious place It's not something a person would want to go to So what's your story? They say We were subjugated We were oppressed We were wronged When we were on the earth We were seen as a second-class citizen Then the angels will say لم تكن أرض الله واسعة من فتهاجروا فيها لم تكن الهدف الله كبارك وتعالى لكي يمكنك أن تذهب ثم الله يخبرون They're final abode would be the hellfire And what an evil place for them to be الله gave them an exception A people who don't have the ability Remember we mentioned You can't implement your religion And also you have the ability Then you have to migrate The ones who don't have the ability That I mentioned إلا المسترع فينا من الريجال والنساء والولدان لا يستطيعوا نحيلة ولا هتدول سبيلات فأولئك عصى الله أن يعفوه And these ones, insha'Allah, الله will forgive them سبحانه وتعالى وكان الله عفونا غفورا Here I want to mention a point Going back to your question The sababu nuzool There was a reason why this verse came down And ألمام البخاري ورحمه الله Mentioned it And it was that a group of Muslims Were living with the non-Muslims in Makkah They did not migrate with the Prophet And his companions when they migrated from Makkah to Medina They stayed in Makkah They remained in Makkah So the battle of bed that happened And the non-Muslims said Okay, now you have to come with us You guys have to come with us To fight Muhammad So they were forced And they were dragged to the battlefield And they know that those are their brothers So they don't want to fight But these Muslims who were with the Prophet Whenever they threw their arrows فا يصيبوا أحدهم They would then hit the chest of those Muslims Because they wouldn't know who is who فا يقتوله And then he would kill them And أو يضرب فا يقتول It would kill فأنزل الله الله تباركة على سنة آية إن الذين توفه وهم الملائكة وظالمي أنفسهم الآية Here There is a mentioning of something Which is أن ناسم من المسلمين A group of the Muslims كانوا مع المشركين They were with the non-Muslims يكثيرون السواد المشركين They were increasing in the population Of the non-Muslims Doesn't that سببن نزول Clearly show That this is an issue If the country is going to go to war Because you increase the army You increase the number of the non-Muslims And you're going to have to go on the battlefield To fight the Muslims But if that condition is taken out There's no war Then what's the issue with living amongst them Your argument would really be strong If the statement of ابن كثير رحمه الله تعالى عن this ayah He said فنزل هذه الآية الكريمة عامة في كل من أقام بين ظهراني المشركين وهو قادر على الهجرة وليس متمكن من إقامة الدين فوظالم للنفسي مرتكب حرام بالإجماع ابن كثير رحمه الله He says This ayah This blessed verse Is general فهو في كل من أقام بين ظهراني المشركين أي one who stays within the mists Of the non-Muslims وهو قادر على الهجرة And he has the ability to migrate وليس متمكن من إقامة الدين And he's not able to establish his religion فهو ظالم للنفسي This person is wronging himself مرتكب حرام And he's doing a major sin بالإجماع By unanimous agreement There's no difference of opinion All the madhabs believe this From the حنفية شافعية ماركية حلابلة All There's no difference of opinion And then he said And also even this verse is evidence for us حيث يقولوا تعالى Because Allah said They left the migration Not their parties By the way The ones who were dragged In the battlefield They didn't want to fight They didn't want to fight And they were not fighting They were avoiding the fight The reason why the ayah is talking to Is لما مكثتم هاهونة وتركتم الهجرة Why did you remain in Mecca And you left of hijra They're responsible بقالوا كنا نصف مصطرع فينا في الأرض We were weakened And we were اي لانا قديروا على الخروج We weren't even able to leave من البلدي We couldn't leave the land ولا دهابي في الأرضي We couldn't travel on the earth And then the angels They accept that from him قالوا ألم تكون عرض الله واسعة واسعة فتو هجروا فيها فأولاك معواهم جهدنا واسعة مصطرع يفعينوا أبودي زها الفاية They had the ability لا نقديروا على الخروج It doesn't mean they didn't have the ability It means They preferred The dunya And the glamours of this dunya To stay Over what Over migrating And going through the hardship Of Returning أخي Let's be honest Shahid Let's be frank and honest With one another The largest Muslim community In the UK Are people who've come from Either Pakistan Somalia Bangladesh India Africa Etc The reverts that are in the country Are very little in number The overwhelming majority of people Can go back to their own countries It's not always the case though It's not always the case Sometimes you're so deep within the UK Your third generation Muslim In the UK You don't have any ties You don't have the ability To go back Shahid that's the same argument That the prophet Had stayed in Mecca For 53 years That's his city That's his land That's where he was born 53 years He lived in Mecca And Allah Commanded him to leave He told him Go and leave And the first hijra Was not even to a Muslim country For the prophet Who went to Medina And what about the hijra Before that A hijra Can be done To a place Where you can practice your religion Even if it's a Non-Muslim country But it's an area Within that non-Muslim country He can practice So Birmingham for example No one moves to Birmingham That's hijra That's my When I said that In the UK You can't practice your religion And also The overwhelming majority Of western countries That we know of There might be exceptions here Or there But the overwhelming majority Of western countries That I know Of America Canada In the UK The concept of Acting upon your religion Habibi That's far-fetched Could be Birmingham Which is the best By the way Birmingham has the largest Muslim population In the UK Doesn't mean Like Everyone's wearing a thug Everyone's got a beard And their copies Everywhere like I'm not denying There is symbols of Islam Present in the UK See my argument here There's no way Am I arguing That Islam Is fully eradicated From the UK There's no sign of Islam I'm not saying that But I'm also saying On the flip side No one can claim That Islam Is the symbols of Islam Are present in the UK And that's what The condition was To stay in a land Sha'a Irool Islam Have to be present That's what You transmittedikka Who stays Remains With the Mushriks Like them They always policing Like the وما يتوله منكم فإنه منهم إن الله لاهدي القمى الظالمين It doesn't mean you like them إن حكم قد يكونوا إعقاب and the punishment you might be like them The Prophet freed himself Look at this The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم he freed himself He said أنا بريء من كل مسلمين يقيموا بين أظهر المشركينة I am free from every Muslim Who remained and stays within the non Muslims قالوا يا رسول الله لما قال لما قال The Prophet said He gave a distance of how far they need to be from one another The fires of these two people shouldn't see each other And Imam Abu Dawood narrated it And Nessai narrated Sheik Nasser رحم الله authenticated it حافظه بن حجر أنا بريء من كل مسلمين يقيموا بين أظهر المشركينة What does it literally mean He says وهذا محمول there's a possibility وهذا صحيح لأن المجموعة التي نردنا من أبنو كتير على من لم يأمن على ديني هو الشخص who is not safe for his religion ماذا يفهم بشكل مهم that Muslims have today They have their religion, right? نعم إذا كانت هذه المجموعة اذا كانت بشكل صحيح كيف يمكنك still have the يعني لن يقول لفتح المجموعة أنه ليست مجموعة ويقول أنه مجموعة ويقول أنه مجموعة ماذا يفهم بشكل صحيح لماذا يفهم بشكل صحيح ومن يهاجر في سبيل الله يجد في الأرض مراغ من كثيرا وسعه ومن يخرج من بيته مهاجرا إلى الله ورسوله ثم يدريكم الموت فقد وقع عجره على الله كان ذانونا مان يبقى في مكة يبقى في مكة أنه من إلا المستضافين من الدريدان والنساء والولدان الذين لا يستطيعون حولة ولا يهدون سبيلة يبقى من الناس الذين لا يستطيعون أيها الأصدقاء فانه جزء كانه في مكة يقرأت بدء ينفتح كان يرسلي النبي محمد يرسلس أبوفاكين يرسلو الجزء يمكنك أرسل المتعتبر يأخذوا في كل حل في هذا المدين فهي بقى أنه يظهر بيشرد يبقى ومتحه حتى وكل بارا في سبيل الله ربما كان يبقى للمه وكان يجد و ماذا يحدث لهم؟ ثم يدرك الموت. فقد وقع أجره على الله. The reward is written for him. The scholars they said the reward is written is not mentioned here. The reason why it's not mentioned is because Allah is saying I'm the one who's given it. And I'm not going to give something very simple or little. I'm going to give I'm Allah. My treasures don't end. So what I mean is that even the way that the Sahabas thought the mind thinking process was totally different from the way we think. Yeah, but not all of them. Because some of them did remain in Mecca, right? Even the ones who remained in Mecca. Were they sinning? Even the ones who stayed in Mecca. When they found out. When they found out what they lost out and what they went through and what they did to themselves by staying in Mecca. That's when the ayah came down إنما أموالكم أولادكم فتنة والله عندو أجل العظيم. And they even tried. They got angry and they were going to harm their children. And because of their children they remained and the fear of their children. They were about to harm their children. And Allah instructed them to don't harm your children. Don't cause your family any problem. But they regretted it later. But the companions where we take our religion from it clearly shows it's not a clear issue if they had اختلاف between them. Which what do you mean? Some companions made hijra. Some didn't. If it was obligatory like you're saying and you're making it so clear. I'm saying ability. A lot of the Sahabas. They had the ability right? They just chose not to. Because of their children. I can't speak for every single companion. I haven't revised every situation of every companion. But you just said they regretted it and they wanted to even harm their children because that's the reason they stayed. But it could be because of even because they didn't take the recommended version of it. The obligation. Like the old man who finally couldn't take it anymore. He felt like he couldn't stay here. Even if I have the رخصة I still can't do this. You see. And for example. There's a رخصة today right now. COVID-19. So many people pray at home. Because they believe if they go to the مساجد. There's a verdict. And a fatwa of some scholars that you don't even have to go to the مسجد. Okay. That being said. That being said. Some people can't disk. The Eman doesn't allow them. I'm still going to go to the مسجد. I'm still going to pray in the مسجد. I'm not going to miss a... What's so fascinating is that The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم he said in the hadith ابن حبانا ريت شغناصر. رحم الله. Authenticated. The Prophet said لا يقبلوا الله من مشركة أشركة بعدما أسلمة عملن. حتى يفارق المشركين إلى المسلمين. The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم he said. الله وعز وجل it does not accept an action of a disbeliever who committed a shirk. He was a mushرك. لا يقبلوا الله من مشركة أشركة. A person was a mushرك. He did shirk. And then he took Islam. Allah will not accept his action unless he leaves the land of the disbelievers. ابن حبانا ريت شغناصر. رحم الله. Authenticated. Not only just that. The Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم reached a point where he would give the conditions of Bay'a was you can migrate from the Nanz and the non-Muslims. أبي نخيلة البجلي أبو نخيلة البجلي he said. قال جريره. أتيت النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم جرير ابن عبد الله البجلي he said. I came to the Prophet. وهو يبايع who is given pledge of allegiance. فقلت I said. يا رسول الله. أبصد يدك. Oh Messenger of Allah open your hand. حتى أبايعك. I can give you pledge of allegiance. واشترط عليه the Prophet conditioned on me. He said to me. أبايعك على أن تعبد الله. I give the pledge of allegiance is that you worship Allah. وتقيم الصلاة. You pray the salah. وتقتي الزكات and you give the الزكات. وتوناصر حل المسلمين and you are a sincere advisor for the Muslims. وتفارق البشركين. And you separate yourself from the disbelievers. You leave their land. You walk away from it. ألمام النسائين narrated that. These are scary ayat for people who are living in the West right now. You're talking about the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم freeing himself from people. You're talking about deeds not being accepted. You're talking about people being driven to the Hellfire. Are you now saying that the 2.6, 2.7 million Muslims in the UK. The 3.5 million Muslims in the US. You got just between those two countries now you're looking at about 6, 5, 6 million Muslims excluding the rest in Europe and other non Muslim countries. You're saying now you're sitting here and saying now on camera that those people who have the ability to leave which obviously you exclude some of them but not all of them they are sinning every single day there and they are a risk that their deeds are not going to be accepted. The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم is going to free himself from them. Allah is going to throw them into Hellfire. Is that what you're saying? I'm saying any Muslim who has the ability has the ability to migrate the concept of whether Islam can be established or not. We already know that. We don't need to hear it from them. In these western countries you cannot establish your religion is not there. The second one is the concept of ability or not everyone can speak for himself. Anyone who knows that they have the ability to migrate go to their home country where they originate from where they will be open hand the community and their families are ready to take them back in and stays in the land of the Muslims he's earthy he's sinning by the way every single day that he stays in that land he's sinning keep in mind we are talking about this discussion all this time what I was talking about is a man staying in these countries the story changes when it's a mother and kids different game different ball game what do you mean how does it change? when you raise children in that mist now now it gets worse all those evidences we're talking about Sahaba there's one person who's been plagued who's come to me now the story changes when you have left your Muslim country and you ran to the lands of the non-Muslims and you brought your children here and you raised your children in this land and you've given your children to them Anthony and Samantha are nurturing your daughter زهرة عائشة they're nurturing your children for you والله you're going to be questioned because Allah says يا إلهي الذين آمنوا قووا أنفسكم وأهليكم نارا وقودها الناس والحجارة عليها ملائقة غلاض شداد الله يعصون الله ما أمرهم ويفعلون ما يمرون الآية الله says those of you who believe protect yourselves and your families from the hellfire by taking your children دهدام والله you're not protecting your Akhira or your children's Akhira you are giving your children to who to the enemies who are going to destroy your child's and thinking why are these why are the Muslim community staying in these countries for why do they remain here the reason for it is not necessary there's another reason for it and you bought many a hadith many a ayat to support your argument I want to bring one of my own and his hadith is the prophet said whoever sees an evil let him change it with his hand and if not then let him change it with his tongue and if not let him hate it in his heart and that is the weakest of e-man the prophet said actually linked the weakest of e-man to just hating it in his heart but leaving that and letting the evil take place and actually running away from it and leaving it is even less than even just being there and hating it with the heart how are you going to say now that the people who are staying here are only doing it for the sake of money why can't you make it exclusive and say actually they want to change the country because we agree that not everybody will be able to make hijra there's always going to be people who fall into that verse who are unable to why can't we stay in the west make it a better place get politically actively involved change the society so we're making it better for those Muslims who have to remain there because they have no choice I unequivocally disagree with that as well the reason is because statistics shows the opposite that they're working more on you than you're working on them they are changing you than you're changing them they're guiding you to misguidance then you're guiding them to guidance a research was done by Coventry University on the 25th of October 2019 a research was done this research showed that there are approximately 4,500 Muslim heritage children in care in Britain it's the UK not any other country if I broadened my research and I looked at Europe for example or I looked at America the statistics would be very high but Britain there are 4,500 Muslim heritage children in care in Britain these children are of Muslim keep in mind these are Muslim children they've been taken from their families and their reason for this is that the child has gone through abuse and neglect family breakdown a parent or child's illness or disability and lack of family support and then they say the vast majority are removed by social services or account of harm or profound risk of harm this child they're saying this child has been taken from his parents maybe because she was forcing him to pray Salah maybe because she was abusing him rightly taken away from the mother maybe if the mother was abusing the child in Islam if it was Islamic let's say she was abusing and she was not doing a good job in Islam in a Muslim country who would most likely take care of that child another Muslim person so it's a win-win situation you're an abusive individual you're an abusive individual listen to this this is the most shocking part go on the child is taken from the the social services took the child take the child from that parent because of their belief of course but by the way the act of harm and profound risk of harm is nothing compared to what they describe it as how we Muslims understand it now now according to government figures there are 4,560 so it's more than the research by commentary university pay attention to this so since the removal of ethnicity from children and family act 2014 was passed social workers are no longer required by law to match religion and ethnicity when finding families for children in other words this child who's Ahmed he can be taken care of an LGBT family you've gone to such a small sample it's like 4,500 kids I actually I actually know right now a girl called Sophia Sophia she's been taking care of two men it's not a case again again look what we're talking about here look we're talking about a ruling for everybody in the UK all the Muslims in the UK for example but even wider than that and we've taken a sample size 4,500 people we've formed them some of them were taken away from their parents and from them some of them went into a non-Muslim household like you're talking about really small sample size and using that to say everyone's got to leave the country no I'm not saying anything by the way the honour of one Muslim is great to us don't dismiss one child one Muslim child who's taken by a non-Muslim if he hurts our hearts today are you telling me right now if you saw online a mother crying I can I can show you extensive videos cases I've seen I've seen mothers come into the mischief break down because she must have told of one child and all her other remaining children were taken of course it would hurt but this ruling is on emotion I'm not going to then say everybody has to leave the country now because I'm emotional I'm feeling like oh wow that really hurts I'm not going to tell everyone to leave the country No I'm not necessarily a one peculiar situation that has happened but it gives you the understanding that you don't even own your own children you can't do tell B of your children the way you see it fit this is what I'm coming to look what the professor I said let's be straight and frank with one another our messenger said you said implementing Islam right implementing Islam there's a Hadid Abu Dawood who narrated the professor he said command your children the Salah when they are 7 years of age وضربوهم عليها وهم ابناء وعشرين and discipline them when they are at the age of 10 let me be even more frank with you the word doesn't say discipline وضربوهم means be them just the other day without no names mentioned without no names mentioned a family was about to lose their child I don't want to tell you someone very reliable to me told me a family member was about to lose their child and the social services had this Hadid written on their they had this written on the case study of this whole situation do you know what happened the child just went to school he said to the other child something about my my father will hit me if I do this the teacher called the social services they got involved and they were ready to go home and take the entire children from her now what I mean is that I am not in any way shape or form saying children can be beaten and destroyed and that's not what I'm saying all I'm trying to say to you is that if a parent is not fit to take care of her child the 2014 act passed by the government states that you no longer you no longer have the rights to choose where that child goes and who looks care the whole community can come together and say we want the social services to have their rights to say we don't want to give it to a Muslim family depending on how the social services fit they have the this is a child your wife has been pregnant for nine months she's given birth his name is Abdullah and he's been raised by a non-Muslim the point I'm trying to say to you your own child you can't control the prophet told us in a hadid and Imam Muslim narrated he said if the children of Adam pass away their actions are all disconnected except three صدقة إنجارية an ongoing صدقة that you give or carry on your righteous deeds for you علم ينتفع ربي or a knowledge that you have benefitted others which they benefitted from you left behind beneficial knowledge for the people أولد صالح يدعو له or you left behind a noble child a righteous child that makes supplication and invokes on Allah for you I'm saying these children who were nurtured in this environment Islamic history pay attention to this we've never seen anyone who changed Islamic history who was nurtured by the non-Muslims or who grew up in the mists of the non-Muslims we've never seen that rather the قاعدة is من شبه على شيء إن شابه علي anyone who grew up upon something most likely turns out to be that thing the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم his parents were non-Muslims but he changed though when he came from a family of non-Muslims رحم عليه سلام his father we can go on and on the companions many of them came from non-Muslim household again how can you say that statement again the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم was a total exception of this situation because he's guided by Allah and he was chosen by Allah and by the way he wasn't nurtured by his mother or father none of them were nurtured him they both died when the prophet was young his father died when he was in his mother's womb and his mother the world that we're talking about today again this is another this is another point that you just reminded me about which is the west it's not a a conflict or a clash of just religion it's not it's also a clash of morality يعني there were things that they held on to even though they were idol worshippers other than Allah which was a clash of religion there were things that they held on to which were good morals they also had bad morals like burying the daughters alive I'm not dismissing that they wanted to the UK also have good morals it's the same situation but this this is my point the west today have we have an issue of morality and dignity issue against them for example homosexuality it's an issue of morality it's an issue of religion no besides a Christian who has not got a religion in our eyes will say to this is despicable it's abhorrent no we don't accept it because it's religion tells him there are secular people who come up to you today who don't believe in religion don't believe in God who will say this act does not make sense it's filthy to me it's an issue of fitla as we previously mentioned our podcast now your child is in a land his soul gets destroyed his morality his moral is killed and also what? his religion his religion is killed I just want to show you how scary it is there was a brother in the UK who had a child his childhood is literally mental so he takes his child they inject him they give him medicine his father holds him down always the child is going to destroy things and jump around the child is insane so he went to the doctors to visit the doctor sat in front of the doctor and the doctor so the father is holding his son so he doesn't want this time to get a needle or jump out of the window or destroy something so he has to hold him down the doctor says let him go because what do you mean if I let him go he's not I'm his brain basically I'm the one who holds him down he goes no do you think this is Africa what do you think you are he's a free man he could choose what he wants يعني إلا هدل I had to wear out that level of okay you brought some very strong moments I want to go back to my question let me rephrase it in a perhaps a better way the Hadith I quoted about whoever sees an evil let him change it with his hand with his tongue hidden in his heart the professor never said whoever sees an evil run away yeah that's my point he said change it let's stay here and change it let's work on this society the overwhelming majority of Muslims the Hadith of the overwhelming majority of Muslims in the UK are not learning enough to even identify what is among her or not you're talking about laymen you're talking a general mass that's what I said to you initially a more fruitful discussion would be طالبة للعلم go to these western countries to get Dawah let's talk about that then that would be a discussion and a point to look at لكن أداعي to take his family his children and to live in these countries there's a Kitab I just decided benefit I want to encourage people to read there's a sheikh محمد من عبدالله السوبيل he was the Khatib and he was the Imam of the Khatib of the Masjid Al-Haram and he was also he was a member of the Islamic senior senior scholar senior scholar the committee of senior scholars in Saudi Arabia and he was also the Khatib and the Imam of the Masjid Al-Haram by the way that time when the so-called false Mehdi was taken over the Ka'ba he was actually the man leading the prayer who had to be taken out of the Masjid with a hijab to cover him and take him out شغم محمد السوبيل محمد من عبدالله السوبيل شغم محمد من عبدالله السوبيل has a Kitab called حكم تجنس بجنسية دولة غير إسلامية it's a very important book I think it's worth reading he talks about the ruling of taking citizenship from a country that is not Muslim he breaks this issue down and he brings it back to the first point that we were talking about the issue of we think right now we actually think that why are they not allowing us to practice our religion the way we want why are they questioning our you know method of discipline in our children is because of the fact that they believe they've given your children citizenship they're the ones who educate your children some large number of Muslim Pakistani whatever it is that they are government gives them a handout handout handout and gives them money all of this gives them the entitlement of wanting to feel like they have rights to choose for your children what they can or can't do so tell me that means a person who can see the moon and they can stop it I'm talking about people who are saying what's wrong with the nun why does the nun have to go to the hellfire that's not everyone that's not fair I'm talking about people who might see pubs in the UK they know alcoholism they know it's wrong so they can't change it with their hands they don't have the ability but at the very least they can work on something together to try and rectify is it fair to say that they're running away is it fair to say is it fair to say like sometimes you know some things are just as the poet said it's not befitting for the mind if the sun needs proof that sun I have to prove it to you so it can be seen in the UK you and I both know the largest largest crime rate that's taking place right now is done by who the Muslims the Muslims I mean I always say I don't know about the largest what moon color disproportionate the largest is the Muslim community what moon color are they going to stop they can stop the things like alcohol they can't even stop their own children I know these statements I'm going to say it's going to probably offend but I had a conversation with one guy who was extremist it was the right wing who believed the Muslims are here to take over the UK I said you think high of us man I said you really think high of us man to think that we want to take over the UK we can't even take over our own households والله I went to Canada and I was very emotional when I went to Canada I for the first time I saw with my own two eyes I haven't seen that in the UK by the way I saw in Canada kids carrying cartons of alcohol on the lift going home and their mother has reached a level where she sets in the fridge a section for him Muslims Muslim Somali mothers setting a part of the fridge and saying to them this section is yours put your alcohol here and when I spoke to that mother I said why are you doing that she said I prefer that he does it here then he does it outside and then murder him someone's going to kill him he's on the streets I might as well just tell him have it but in your room come out take it she locks the fridge for him like that the point is that the the communities the Muslim communities the way that they have become only Allah knows SubhanAllah and I'll tell you something else that shocked me the rate of abortions that are done by teens Muslim teens Amina Fatima Nafisa all these Muslim names that you see who are going to the NHS to get abortions done and it's 17 18 19 I know a girl who hasn't reached I want to say the age it's so scary she hasn't reached the age of puberty in the UK and she for the first time I ever heard I didn't even know this existed what they call sugar daddy a man owns that young girl Muslim he owns her والله she has not reached the age of consent he owns her he fulfilled he's a 40 year old man married none Muslim not even a Muslim he owns her owns her he gives her money every month he puts money in her account she comes over to him this is والله and to be honest over the years of giving دعوة I came to the conclusion it might be a very harsh conclusion but I came to the conclusion now the دعوة in the UK is it is damage control it's not stopping what's going to happen the people what you gain from there and what you lose what you lose is more okay you're talking about the دعوة now let's talk about the دعوة because the prophetic tradition is not to run away from the lands or the non-Muslims but it's actually to send people into them like the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم send معادة من جبن let me just conclude that before you move into this one there was a man who killed 99 people the Prophet told in the حديث الإمام البخاري بسعيد خذري إن عبدن قتل 99 نفسه a man killed 99 people ثم عرضت له توبة then he wanted to repent so he asked about فسأل عن أعلم أهل الأرض he asked for the most knowledgeable of people فدول على رجول then he was to go to that man and he came to the man and he told him when the man was a worshipper he said إني قتلتو 99 نفسه I killed 99 people فهلي من توبة would I have any repentance? I want to repent and the man said to him بعد 99 نفسه after 99 people you killed you want to repent? the man took out his sword he made him 100 فأكمل به المئة 100 people now he's killed I don't know on this I've never met anyone who killed 100 people have you ever met anyone this man killed 100 people then he asked about فسألة he asked عن أعلم أهل الأرض the most knowledgeable of people by the way this man struggled to find someone knowledgeable worship on this has been pushed towards so then what happened فدول على رجول he was pointed towards a man this man was a knowledgeable man he said إني قتلتو I now killed 100 فهلي من توبة do I have repentance? he said ويحق when you are repenting who's stopping you from repentance you can repent if you want to but the first he instructed him is what? he said أخرج من القرية الخبيثة التي أنت فيها leave this filthy land that you've been in إلى القرية الصالحة go to that land the honorable land فعبود ربك فيها worship your lord over there this is not the place you can do it yeah the abid remate the scholar is in this land but he's telling him leave you're telling him leave you shouldn't be here because you leave this land the man he made a decision فخرج يريد القرية الصالحة he left to go to that blessed land فعرب له أجله death came to him في الطريق while he was walking فختصمت فيه ملائكة الرحمة وملائكة العداب this dispute now between the two angels the angel of mercy and the angel of punishment then إبليسر أنا أولا به إبليسر he's mine he's mine he said إنه لم يعصيني ساعة this man never disobeyed me every time I told him to do something he did it so he's mine فقالت ملائكة الرحمة the angel of mercy said he's mine إنه خرج تاعيبن this man came out repenting and then الله تعالى pulled the earth in favor of him and he what saved that man he's hitra leaving that land and that story shows the differences in the types of people because the عالم he stayed in the evil land but the one who's committed to murder and he's engrossed in that much since I agree with you these people leave the lands of the non-Muslims make him hitra but to make it unrestricted and say every single person UK has to leave it's more of a stretch than that my question to you is you proved I can honestly say like honestly you've actually proved that it is obligatory for those people the general mass in the UK-US I'm not going to dispute that we're going to talk in the second half of this podcast about the practicality of where do they go and how do they go and is it even practical in the modern world but theoretically you proved that my question is is it permissible for someone to give Da'wah in the UK in the US and to remain there giving Da'wah calling to Allah trying to help the people trying to correct the non-Muslims guide them to Islam trying to help the Muslims who are there because they just don't have the ability to leave is that person also sinning every single day he's there now this brings me to the concept of remaining in the west a person we spoke about the land where you can stay and where you can't we spoke about the conditions for that now the person there are three conditions if these three conditions are met and the conditions that we mentioned before you can implement your religion and you or you know and you don't have the ability to leave if these three conditions with extra on it is found you can stay in that land for example أن يكون عند الإسان علم يدفع به الشبهات you have enough knowledge to repel the doubts that's brought to you the second one is أن يكون عنده أن يكون عنده أن يمنعه من الشبهات also you have enough religion a strong religion that stops you from feeling your desires and the question here is that just for that person or is that person and his family members everyone if his family members his wife is strong like that and his kids are strong like that they meet these conditions they all have to meet the conditions it's not like the man can be upright but his kids are strong and he should leave these children can't be because they don't have the enough religion because they're young they don't have that the doubts are always going to be stronger than them and the third condition when it is أن يكون محتاجا إلى ذلك he really needs to travel to that land maybe it might be medical reasons maybe it might be even education there's a certain type of knowledge that he can't find in the land of the Muslims he needs to go to that land acquire that certificate and come back from it a situation like that if he has أن يدفع به الشبهات he has enough knowledge to repel the doubts if you throw it at him and he also has دين يمنعهوا من الشبهات has enough religion to stop him from desires then إن شاء الله,"تعالى يجوز لحوالي صفر". he's allowed to travel to the land of the disbelievers and he's not scared for life what I've seen is people came from Muslim countries who were going to my university by the way I know they they come from Arab countries and guess what some of them will come up to you they were in the class for 2-3-4 days لا يوجد دين ونيمناء ورحمة شاوات ، لا يوجد مخلوق enough religion to prevent it from the desires so these types of people coming here is wrong and the overwhelming majority of muslims who came did not have this let's be very frank our own parents I mean when they came majority of us they didn't have المون يودي اد فعوبي هشو شبوهات they didn't have knowledge to repel the doubts that are both against them no did they have religion that will stop them from the desires now pay اتفاق now امجد now امجد now with that said if there's if you have religion you have religion you're strong in your religion and your wife is not yeah and you brought him to this country and then you went separate ways you went in your separate ways she went this way you went it's life people may not get along hey what's going to happen she loses her religion by the way يصطادون يصطادون they hunt those type of women they give it empower her believe in yourself you can do it so they empower her falsely ميراج والذي لكفر عمان وكسرابي بقية حسابه ببعان ولا they give her this false illusion they pick her up and drop her one time she goes on depression pills and she thinks what they said is real it's not the children they are they're nurturing the my mother told me a story my mother told me she said 1991 there was a Jamaican woman who was speaking to my mother she said to me oh where country from Somalia so us little kids were running around she said oh these are your kids huh she said this is the first generation of Somalis the first generation she said i'll tell you something she said where caribbeans we came to this country way before you the second and third generation in this country these kids might make it through but the second the ones they give birth to and the ones after that basically she said ويل اللهم ويل بي for them destruction and my mother every time mentions that story reminds us of that story like that woman every every time i see it Somalis didn't even reach my community didn't even reach that generation this the second generation is suffering forget the third i will like yeah no answer answer answer okay so just to summarize what you say now i want to make sure i got it right and please correct me if i'm wrong there are certain things you can travel to the lands of non-muslims for example education you can't find it in the lands of muslim which a lot of people do they go for university business is that one of the conditions is that one of the thing that if there's a haja now um but there are but for that person to go there there he must meet two conditions him and everybody he takes with him must meet two conditions number one he has to have enough knowledge to repel the doubts and number two he has to be strong enough on his dean to repel the desires yeah we're keeping in mind Shahid where what those three condition we're mentioning is to travel to the lands of the non-muslims not to live there no what about living there no you can't live there but education could take three four years yeah that's you for that time you can as soon as you get your degree bam back you can't stay there afterwards again what about korea opportunities there's better korea opportunities there go muslim countries but there's not as good to korea opportunities but that's look what are you looking for what is it you're trying to provide for my family which is an obligation upon you your your your issues the dunya right no to provide for my family which is an obligation upon me as per the religion the prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam you've been imagine rated that the prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam he said i heard the prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam and say من كانت الدنيا همه همه anyone who this dunya is his aspiration he wants to dunya فرق الله عليه أمره الله will disperse your efforts on your hard work وجعل فقره بين عيني الله place poverty right in front of your eyes ولم يأتي من الدنيا إلا ما كتب له and you will not receive from this dunya except that which was written for you ومن كانت الآخرة تونيته anyone who the hereafter is really his intention in his heart جمع الله له أمره الله will bring his matters together will unite his effort and his hard work and will put it in the right direction for him وجعل غيناه في قلبه and الله will enrich him in the heart واتت واتت واتت واتت واتت واتته دنيا وهي راغبه and the dunya will come running after you the truth of the matter is that richness is really والله not pennies and pounds والله is the richness of the heart the contentment أخي i know not one not two i know nice number of brothers who've literally packed their bags and they went back to their country سمالي is a third world country it's a simple country they went there and والله they're living better than you and i in terms of dunya it's also dangerous there that there's not as much safety there أخي موب say that to the mother who lost her child this young girl right now recently الله يرحمها her name is called شكرا عبدي the young سمالي you might have seen her online she died شكرا عبدي was murdered in يعني مانشستر the truth of the matter is that the girl was killed that that's how it shows storyline seems like that she was thrown into the sea river this girl couldn't even speak English she just came from her home country she got murdered not in سماليا she got killed in manchester سمالي kids are more dying in the uk than they're dying in سماليا than the بام is that happened in سماليا there's more kids died سمالي kids dying in canada than the youngsters dying in سماليا let's be honest let's be frank it's just a night it's this feeling that we've been given this belief that we've been given people are suffering i think i'm telling you online okay so i'm a layman must them i can only go to these places to if i meet those two conditions which we mentioned before and as soon as i get what i intended i a degree i have to leave okay i want to really pin you down on this سمالي دعوة في الوقت في الوصول حياتي دعوة i want to go back to this individual permissible اميسيبو someone who's living in the uk to full time give دعوة to them again if he has enough knowledge to repel the doubts and he's also has enough religion to not fall into the desires he can stay in that night to give دعوة because what's his whole life as long as it takes the reason for that is because he's bringing him assets to the muslims see we don't want to lose what's happening to us is now we brought all our children and family our kids we guide two or three guys to the message and he says and we take شهد from another guy and another guy another and 20 of our children are being taken from us and we look at those four five that came into islam which is good no doubt we're not going to deny that but what about the thousands that you're losing on a regular basis who've been brainwashed in thinking that يعني they are يعني they are british muslims and their values are british and they've got nothing to do with يعني those children of yours you have to look into okay what about part time دعوة because i think a lot of people would fall into this i'm a person who's got a nine to five i work i have a family but on saturday sunday morning i open up a دعوة table in the high street and i'm calling people to islam can i stay in the uk so that the the concept of دعوة can be يعني you don't have to have a table to give دعوة you don't have to have a microphone to give دعوة you don't have to be a خطيب in a message to give دعوة that was a multifaceted thing can be done in many different ways and forms a uber driver can be a دعي but now you're opened up to many people's then you know but i'm now i'm i'm narrowing it down gone which is this is another problem in these professions you're not allowed to preach it's against the law to talk about religion you've got every high street main high street you've got a دعوة table talking no i'm not talking about those ones i'm saying to you i'm trying to open the door wide and show you that the west doesn't allow us to implement our religion the way we want most of them are not allowed i mean i have an uber driver from brothers and i know them i always ask them how's everything when you're driving uber you must get into the concept of religion he goes no i can't man it's very sensitive unless the person opens up to me and wants to hear it and because he said i've but that's not the government opposing it that's his own enough symposium no no he's different no he said to me and i said well we're stopping you from that he goes the issue is that i've kind of when i first came on i started to preach to them and they complained to the uber once they complained i get in trouble okay so the issue of دعوة like that doesn't really work and even this i'll tell you this is my point the muslim's presence in the west is actually not given a good impression of إسلام as well the muslim community are all over the place والله the truth of the matter is that the muslim community to a high extent i'm gonna say all of them are all over the place we have the sumali community and what they're doing on the streets the gangs and the killing and the murdering of fighting over drugs and whatnot it's not a good impression for islam the gang grooming that we're seeing why young girls are being gang groomed it's not a good impression for islam we can we can we can try to get around argumentations here or there but the truth is we're not presenting islam بصوراته الجميلة in the way that islam should be so that's why retreat right now retreat muslims you have countries will i imagine this if the pakistani community went back to pakistan and they built their own country how many engineers you guys have in the uk we started in these universities how many doctors you have how many scientists that you guys have if all of you guys went back what kind of country can you build all these sumali brothers just packed their bags now educating went back to their countries stayed how much can they do for their country okay ثيرتاقاً i'm with you ثيرتاقاً i can't really dispute what you've been saying practically this is where the game changes this is where i'll bring my arguments because to be honest with you theory is one thing and on paper you bought some good points but it's impossible to implement that in the real world you want to go to this idealistic muslim country where there's no one cut and as everyone's practicing you can you know there's no clubbing you know these are points that you bought by the way there's no clubbing there's no nothing there's no non muslims there because you said the fire of the non muslim you bought in the hadith nowadays in the muslim country there are clubs there is alcohol even when you send your kids to school there are non muslim expats you're living next door to a non muslim in an apartment building all of your argument falls down because there's no practical reality to it where should muslims go where so this i i i again feel it comes it comes from someone who has really felt being in a muslim country it's totally different you see munkar happening in a place where islam is there and munkar is happening that's been present even at the time of the profit munafiqin were living in the midst of the prophecy not everybody was doing what was required from them things munkar is going to happen we're not saying there's going to be a place where there's munkar free no not at all like in them places islam it's a place of khair a place of religion you have the upper hand as a muslim i will together i'll give an example and in the uk i had a conversation with a lot of non muslims and how are you has everything yeah have you ever looked into islam yeah i have but just it's not for me man the second when you really go deep with him he goes bro if islam is so good why do you guys go back to those slammy countries which is a real valid point in our life you're you're muslims glory happiness in this world that islam will give you a better life he says okay you know what why does it not give you a better why did you have to come here for that point is no when it's in a when it's a it's a it's a paradigm shift when you're in the the tables at hand okay i've had our opportunities with non muslims in this UAE the country i'm in sheikh is different they tell me man they i've meet them very often because i work in an islamic that organization which is sole purpose is to bring people into islam wallahi every one of them i meet i am so thankful i've left the uk these are steven mike one john and daniel i'm so thankful i've left that country headache this that the opportunity of islam is very high you'll listen you know only this put that aside put the dunya aside as what's your purpose in life why you've received all of this what do you want sheikh it's different it's totally different recently there was a guy who's playing music around my area and he played loud music went around the block i said look excuse me do you want to listen to music you can do if you want to but we don't want to hear it it was a guy English guy from the uk we all don't we all of us don't want to hear it if you want to hear it close your windows listen to yourself don't impose it on everybody else you know what he did he closed the window he put the music down his cloth that's nice experiences and he was a nice guy but it's not a nice guy it's just that he wasn't a nice guy no he was a very no that's that's not my point he was a nice guy but the point i'm trying to come to you i can never do that in the uk because it's not it's their law i'm i'm the guest here i have to just be like okay okay okay i'm a guest and that's the work that you say the call and say it's different i can give you an example another example a police over pulled me over because i was driving fast i'm just trying to show you the differences here and he said what's the reason you're going fast for i said honestly really i'm trying to go to the masjid and it was well i honestly that was a reason i was going to the masjid i said look this is my reason i'm going to the masjid but was he still not a good reason you shouldn't do it what really touched me and i this is for me priceless والله this no money combines for me the fact that the police come officer comes out of the car and he says to him السلام عليكم and i had to say to him وعليكم السلام you know the feeling of that you understand it and he talks to me we have that conversation back and forth and i could tell him it's because of salah and he feels the weight of salah and he looks at me well even if he gives me that ticket which i deserve the ticket i just got 30 reward from سلام عليكم وعليكم السلام and all of these things i'm just trying to show you it's a muslim person you're dealing with it's a muslim country you're dealing with the other day there was two guys in the in the supermarket one pushed over the other guy the other guy goes الله يرضى عليك he's angry at him in the uk would have been f word b word you know what i mean like الله يدع عليك means may Allah be pleased with you the truth is والله the honest truth is that there is nothing like a muslim country but even now the muslim countries have become so westernized so liberal like surely there's some muslim countries that are worse than some western countries no i wouldn't i wouldn't i would never never every single muslim country is better than any any any western country that's no that's unfair that's injustice that's wrong but people go on holiday to these places like Dubai for example they go on holiday they realize it's so liberal women address again it's unfair to say that because UAE is a very restricted particular part of where you go to and you get all of that that's a it's a particular part you go there i don't go there do you go there i don't even know that side of the world just the same way that you will argue with the uk you can impact your religion it is places in that in the uk you can go to and there's also places where there are places where are good i mean UAE has this road and this road whichever road you want to take take it my point is the other is on for me listen the guys looking for munkar is going to get his munkar that and then i have it the practicing of my religion and he might be me no one's stopping me no one's imposing me and saying your child has to love lgbt and your child has to agree with lgbt and your child has to know what's no one's forcing me anything on me it's a beautiful picture but it's going to come to an end because none of these muslim countries give you visas and citizenship and ultimately you and your family are going to have to end back into the uk who said hijra is something very easy who where did we say that is you have to in order to do hijra you have to get countries have to let you know it's not it's hard by the way we have countries if we want to go we can go to our countries if we by the way who said hijra has to be to one muslim country it can be any muslim country i can keep traveling through different muslim countries do you see so if i get kicked out of one muslim country i can go to another muslim country and another muslim country but wallahi there is nothing like any muslim country wellah protect all the muslim countries from harm including this country right now that we're in wallahi it's nothing like it in terms of what the uk has i saw brothers go to egypt and they were insulting the country wallahi they did it wallahi they don't really understand what they're saying wallahi they're speaking with ignorance if they're comparing egypt and uk together wallahi i see as ignorance حقيقة تباتي دين نروس it's nothing the same okay i want to return back to the point of those people who can't unable to leave them the lands of the non-muslims for example it's not just a simple case of your originally your ethnicity is this country go back to that that particular country there are people who have deep rooted family ties businesses second third generation muslims in the uk the us and their life is built around them everything's around them the uplift in that and move into a muslim country is not an easy thing and i know you just said who said it would be easy but my point is that the people who are able to do that are very very few and therefore you issue a rule of ruling on all of the muslims because of what a few of the muslims can do that seems unjust there's an ayah in the quran where allah connects hijra with jihad and those you can imagine the weight of that الله تباركه تعالى he says الله said those who believe migrated fault for the sake of الله تباركه تعالى they are the ones والذين اعوى نصروا and those who gave shelter and victory they are the true believers they have the forgiveness from their lord ورزقون كريم and provision from Allah it's amazing that Allah mentioned risk it's gonna provide for them hijra is not an easy issue it's a very powerful issue ولي داركة many of the islamic acts that we see for example the concept of صلاة قريش هدى already the concept of zakat قريش already had that these concepts were already present the concept of حج was already present these were present issues that were there the concept of fasting was already there these are concepts that were present before islam one of the things that arabes could never accept themselves to do is the concept of hijra because it was accepting defeat that's why the حديث that example was specifically used ميغريت صلاة wasn't used زكات wasn't used صوم wasn't used حج was what was used was hijra hijra is hard very hard the prophet ﷺ when he got up and he had to leave مكة he looked back at مكة and he said والله I love you مكة I love you if my people were not to kick me out of this land والله I'll never have left you as his place this is his land he loves it صلى الله عليه وسلم you previously mentioned that a lot of the crime being done in the UK is by the Muslim community you now want to take these Muslims put them into non-Muslims put them into Muslim countries guess what's going to happen the Muslim countries are going to go down they're going to get worse and worse and due to globalization and advent of internet social media they're already on that path of following the west anyway you're going to now drag them down to the same level as the west what have you really achieved which one finishes first the broom or the earth what do you mean by that if you keep brushing the earth which one's going to finish first it's going to wear out the broom the broom right yeah because the earth is bigger yes you can come to a community you might do things here or there you're just going to wear out the people are going to melt inside the community are more hence why we're saying to the people leave the UK because however good you are they are more than you they influence you the ocean takes you however strong you are and you pin yourself down it will move you and coming to these Muslim environments and a lot of us a lot of us are on the concept of what peer pressure we actually do things because other people are doing it we get influenced by other people i'm not saying in any way shape or form that the Muslims around the world in the Muslim countries are better and they are so good you might find a Muslim who memories the Quran in the UK and one who didn't use a shaitan in in a Muslim country that's president there's no denying of that but what we're saying is a Muslim country and a non-Muslim country the same which is a non-Muslim here are we going to make them both the same or criminal are we going to make them both the same no no we can't the believer is better the land of the believers are better whether there's sins whether there's this whether there's that it's a Muslim country okay i want to wrap up the discussion and give you a chance to summarize it but just before i do i've got a few nuanced questions these are questions that i imagine people have on their mind the first one is some of them might be watching this and be really scared of that iat and ahadith that you mentioned about not making hijra and their position on the day of judgment if they make a hijra quote unquote from an area within a non-muslim country let's pick the UK and area within the UK to a better area within the same country for example Birmingham is that classified as hijra and are they now free from those iat and those threats that you warned about from online is let's just say something so if a person leaves a place where he can't practice his religion and he goes to another land where he can't practice his religion and that may he may even be a Muslim country a non-muslim country where he can practice his religion okay he can practice his religion if we accept that he can and he also has the ability to migrate so he has the ability to migrate but he can practice his religion it's recommended for him to leave okay we encourage him to leave on the condition he can practice his religion so so that's actually a second question that's really someone from a non-muslim land to another non-muslim let's say China for example where the Muslims are really being oppressed to the UK but obviously that doesn't really stand because in the UK they can't practice their religion i'm saying that you're right the level of not practicing a religion varies yes yeah some countries UK to be honest and be frank and let's be fair UK is the best western country i know you can practice your religion okay the best so far but even then it doesn't reach the level that it doesn't meet that criteria that was set by the ulama and that which they mentioned it can't meet it okay so someone who goes from another non-muslim country to a Muslim country it's not hijra no it's not hijra and the same applies for someone in the same country let's say from London to Birmingham these people are still under the threat that we mentioned earlier about the ayat and the hadid okay last question you have multiple obligations over you for example you make hijra as an obligation for someone in the UK they go they go to a Muslim country but their parents are stuck in a non-muslim country and it's not easy it's not able for them to move they're actually excused due to the ayat that they're not able to move they now have two obligations under them they want to live in a Muslim country because it's obligatory upon them but they also need to look after their parents so becoming elderly what takes precedence because they can't do more a large number of scholars they mentioned that if a person cannot leave the land of the non-muslims and including that is that he can't leave his mother there or he's either got a court system where the government has taken his children and he has stayed in that land in order or his wife and him and his wife have went in separate ways and she doesn't want to leave and the children are still in the UK and they can't leave a lot of the scholars believe that this is إلا المصطع فينا من الرجال والنساء والولدان الذين لا يستطيعون حيلة ولا يهتدون صديق they can't travel there's no way to go no place to go and that did happen to some of the people who lived in Mecca they couldn't leave because the Quraysh was holding them down was bribing them was conditioning things on them you can't leave unless you do this so some of them couldn't travel and they stayed because of that so maybe that person might fall under إلا المصطع فينا من الرجال even if you've got parents and you fear for them that they might turn sick they might turn ill so you're waiting around just in case that happens but that's again it comes back to the issue of do your parents literally depend on you do they actually depend on you or are they doing their thing they've got their life carried they've got jobs they're doing things and you have your own children you have your own life can you stay in that land to destroy your children when in reality you know maybe your parents may not live for too long 10 years but your children grew up in here and they're now used to this lifestyle okay final final question before I get onto summary and again it goes back to a practical question for some people who might ask many people as you've seen travel to the lands of the non-Muslims for education purposes and we mentioned this before that there are three conditions there's a genuine need that you can't find that education in the lands of the Muslims there's the person who's got enough knowledge to push away the doubts and he's got enough practice in his religion to push away his desires those three conditions what is your evidence for those three conditions number one and number two who decides if I've got enough knowledge to push away the doubts if I've got enough Dean to push away the to push away the desires is that the individual himself he just takes that decision or you know how does it work you see these people are coming from Muslim countries so they're coming from Muslim countries they're coming to non-Muslim countries there's always senior people they can refer back to they're بشايخ they're teachers they're parents these are the people they genuinely go back to like dad I want to travel to this country or you know my local Imam who I respect and I love and who knows me who's known me when I was young learning the Quran so they go to the sheikh and look am I fit to go to these countries are they also بليل إنسالو على نفسه بصيرا ولو ألقام عذيرا the person knows himself with the person knows himself you know if you have enough knowledge to defend yourself and if you have enough religion in you if you're in your own country you are watching movies and you are so taken back by western culture then of course you can see from there if you go to these countries the ocean will take you and if they go to those countries and they suddenly fight they think that they do have enough knowledge and enough to repel the desires but they go to those countries and they start them feeling themselves drowning they have to move back they need to get make it the way back okay also the concept of stay away from any place where fitna or facade that you're scared of these are what the whole it's high Qur'an is about the Qur'anic discourse الله تباركه تعالى commands the message يساعد السلام وصبر نفسك مع الدينا يدعونا ربهم بالغدات والعشي يريدون وجه ولا تعدوا عيناك ولا تعدوا عيناك عنهم تريدوا زينة الحياة الدنيا ولا تطع من أغفلنا قلبه عن ذكرنا والتبع حواه وكان أمره فوروضاء الله تعالى the prophet to stay with the righteous people and to be around them and he also he told them to stay away from those who are criminals and the wrongdoers الله تباركه تعالى يساعدوا إذا ريت الدينا خوضونا في آيناتنا فعالوا ضعانهم حتى يخوضوا في حديثنا عين if you see those people indulge into our verses they bring it out so they bring problematic issues الله تباركه تعالى to turn away from them also the Nussus that show that the believer is commanded to be friend righteous people to be with the righteous people so he can influence them أمروا على ديني خليلي فلين ضرحاتك من يقاله so all of those Nussus is the concept of not presenting yourself to doubts or even not to sit in a place where you know you cannot prevent that issue one of the strongest evidence for that is the issue of the Jal the Prophet ﷺ said be he if you hear of him be out of the place the Jal is there فنع عنه the Prophet ﷺ said turn and run away from that place so we will fit that comes we run away from it so that's the evidence is for your religion and your knowledge to defend the doubt and the شه والشبهات those are the evidence that you need to stay away from places where you fear that Okay, I have it let's conclude with giving you the summary of the discussion some of your final thoughts someone who's lived in the non-Muslim lands someone who's lived in the Muslim lands someone who's involved in that hour speaking to many people what are your thoughts as a خلاص summary of this issue my land is vast as a judge he mentions he's من الموضع الذي لا يمكنهم فيه عبادة الله where they can't worship Allah وكذلك يجب على من كان فيه بلد يعمل فيه بالمعاصل and if you're in a land where the sins are being done openly ولا يمكنه تغيير ذلك and you can't change it and you had your land that you leave that land إلى حيث يتهيأ له أن يعبود الله حق عبادته and you go to a place where you can worship Allah the way he deserves ابن كثير also said regarding Aves ابن كثيرا رحم الله he also said regarding Aves he said this ayah is a command from Allah to the believers to migrate from the land لا يقديرون فيه على إقامة الدين where they can't establish their religion إلى أرض الله الواسعة go to the vast lands of الله while I've seen so many people who've left the lands of the non-Muslims they've come to Muslim countries they went to Saudi Arabia they lived there they came to the UAE they went to other Muslim countries Malaysia is beautiful Muslim countries and guess what they did the first thing they said is I was living in a hole I was living in darkness الله it's actually greener on the other side and I also want to say brothers and sisters الله you have children it's even worse for you الله if you have children save your children الله they're targeting your children they're going to destroy your children the Prophet ﷺ he told us in the hadith إن الرجل لا ترفع درجة وفي الجنة a person will be his level will be risen in jannah فيقول to the person where they say أنها هذا how did I earn this place in jannah how did I get this position so you call it will be said to him بستغفار والدي كلك you got this because of your child making dua for you he asking Allah's forgiveness for you ابنه ما generated this من حديث أبي حرير الشغناص رحم الله authenticated it if you want your children to benefit you when you die take them out of these lands taking your children to nursery and letting these people so what's very you're taking them to nursery and they're teaching them and then when they come home you're put in tele-tobes you're putting this cartoon this cartoon and they have you spent no time with your children and when you're when they're 18 and your child starts having problems you come to the Imam and you say Shaykh Imam help me I have a problem my son doesn't want to listen I've been no you've tied him back you've tied his hands from the back and you threw him into the ocean and you said be careful do not let the water touch you and in other words you threw him into that society you do not equip him with enough knowledge and then you say to him be careful don't let the society to harm you والله the nursery rhymes that we memorize in school still in our heads and what they did and he's والله when I was growing up and I used to go to school and Christmas would come there was a Christmas tree in the school there was a Christmas there was a there was a post office box the red post office Roy Mellon one in the school where people would put their cards wherever they want to give it to والله I would look forward to that because I would compare Eid with Christmas Eid was not anything you would look forward to because Christmas Merry Christmas everywhere half price Iceland has half price سيدس بيس has half price asda سبحان الله half price those were the times when when it was so low that my mom would buy the uniform from George yeah as the George as the George that's what she would get the point I'm trying to come to is that all of this has an effect on the child all of that has an effect on the child so by statement I said might please you or not but take it's with an open heart and mind it's for your own better I'm not getting money to promote a particular current Muslim country but I'm trying to be as honest and as fair as to you may Allah تعالى and all of us allow our children to grow in the lands of the Muslims and embed them الشيخ اللباني اللهم الله said he said if my he said one of the du'as that I make for my father الشيخ اللباني he said this and I never ever will forget making du'a for him on and the best thing he did for me he said he said this is the best thing my father did for me was that he took me from أوبانيا and he brought me to سوريا the best thing he did for me الشيخ محمد عريقادي من ايتيوبيا he ran away from who recently died عليها رحمة الله he ran away from عبسينيا sorry he ran away from ايتيوبيا his country because of the communist party he said رحمه الله تعالى رحمة واسعة he wanted to go عمرا and they were controlling the people so they said only 40 people can leave from the city or the village and he was a 37 person and he made his way to عمرا and he never went back and he never went back to stay there he came back after everything got better look what he produced look at where he taught look so the people have to understand no one's saying هجرة is easy you've got a country you've got a land a lot of us have homes not one homes rebuilt and when we go back to our land we're royalty don't stay in a place where you're like scene as a يعني low pathetic person in a place where you're highly respected that's what I wanted to say very few which I have said that was wrong I incorrect this from you شيطانا that Allah needs messenger I'm both free from it سبحانك الله وبحمده أشد الله إله إلا الله أستغفروا كواتوب إلي