 So, hi. Welcome to the blockchain panel. I'd like to introduce our fabulous panel members. So, on my right, Mr. Isokano from BigFlyer, and on my left, Pooji-san from ABFG. So, please welcome the panel. You were a great applause piece. Okay, please get seated. So, I'd like to start off with a very basic question about what is your take about this blockchain or some other people may call it the distributed ledger technologies with, additionally, with some explanation of your current business. So, Kano-san. Yeah, sure. I'm going to actually ask a little bit about question if you know about your the blockchain or virtual currency. So, do you have any bitcoins? Can you actually raise the hands? Anybody actually who has a bitcoin? Anyone who owns a bitcoin, please raise your hands. Actually, it's difficult, but maybe 10%. Anybody who knows the difference between the public blockchain and the private blockchain could actually raise their hand. Okay. Maybe just a few. Two more hands. So, maybe actually we should discuss about a little bit more basic. Yep. So, well, the blockchain and the virtual currencies and bitcoin is kind of actually separated, but the blockchain is a base technology of bitcoin as a virtual currency. So, there are actually two layers. Blockchain is a kind of new database that you cannot delete or update the data. So, if you write the number on there, you can call the bitcoin and then that's going to be a virtual currency. So, bitcoin is just one application of the blockchain. So, the people actually separate it. The virtual currencies are the blockchain and a lot of actually financial institutions is getting to the blockchain itself and separate that into the private blockchain and the public blockchain. So, that's the situation right now. Can you touch a little bit more about what you do as a business and maybe the vision of what you think about this technology will take in like five to ten years time from now? Yeah. We, BeFlyer, has two major actually business domains, the virtual currency exchange and the blockchain called MIAB. So, we have both. This is actually B2C and this is for B2B. So, as a virtual currency exchange, we actually provide the service for the users to exchange their fiat currencies with virtual currencies, meaning BTCJPY. On the other hand, this is a purely actually technology that providing the financial institutions or maybe the other actually a business area that this is a new database that people can write but you can't delete. So, those are actually very different but we provide both. Thanks a lot. So, next, heading over to Fujisan. A very large question is about what can blockchain change in the context of banks but doesn't really need to restrict it to the message about banks. You can talk about any other industry, Steve. Sure. So, okay. So, as a financial industry, maybe you have to think, you have to separate the concept of public chain and private chain. Originally, the public blockchain is a trustless system. A huge number of anonymous participants supporting the blockchain with the consensus called proof of work. And that kind of trustless system is, I think, not suitable for financial institutions. So, major financial institutions is running a number of proof of concept right now and most of those projects are conducted using the private blockchain or consortium type of blockchain. So, one example is that we are now building our bank issued original digital currencies called MSG coin which is built on consortium type of blockchain right now. And so, if you have the enough number of participants in the consortium type of blockchain, maybe we can build some kind of brand new business network with maybe other banks or other business companies and maybe in the near future, maybe the public people can use our original cryptocurrency. Just one additional question would be like, do you view blockchain or digital wallet based technology as like a basic technology of a bank? Or do you view more like a productive edge of a bank? So, the very basic thinking of our vision is that blockchain will never cause major disruption overnight or blockchain cannot be quick fix solutions or something like that. But, and also the research reports from Gatna says that in major financial institutions systems integration projects, the cost of blockchain only occupies the under the 5% of the whole budget. And also, as you may know, the core banking system is pretty complicated. And replacing the whole banking system with blockchain is one year ago, I can say easily, so it's important that we have to think of that, but after one year, we have studied a lot about the more realistic and also the most of the implementation, most of the blockchain products is still immatured in a technical sense. So, I think partly maybe we can replace or reform our peripheral systems for the first step with the high efficiency or reducing the cost. But if you think of replacing core banking system, maybe we need more advanced type of blockchain or maybe we need more matured system. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thanks a great set of questions and answers. My second question will be on about the current challenge inside the industry and the technology. As many of you might have known, there is a very famous issue about hard forking recently in the market. Please elaborate your thoughts. Well, the hard fork is a very critical issue as the Bitcoin ecosystem. So, we as a Bitflyer actually issued a statement three days ago that we don't support the coexistence of the two different blockchains. This is just because the hard fork itself is a little bit difficult. So, now we actually say the people actually buying, selling Bitcoins or sending Bitcoins, this is called Bitcoin Core, the original Bitcoin. But people are struggling with the latency of the traffic. So, more and more use actually came into the Bitcoin ecosystem. Actually, the time period of time you are receiving the Bitcoin is very slow, getting slower and slower. So, there are actually two parties that supporting one methodology called BCC and the other one is Bitcoin Unlimited, Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin Unlimited. And the people actually discussing which technology is better for the past actually two years, but still actually discussing. So, the worst case scenario, the Bitcoin Unlimited actually split the chain to make the new Bitcoin called BU, Bitcoin Unlimited. That makes a lot of confusion to the ecosystem because it's really difficult to have two different coins at the same time. Because this depends on the algorithm called proof of work. Actually, the majority of the hashing power governs their main chains, meaning the minor coin will be actually disappeared. That's the reason why we don't support both chains. So, hope their ecosystem actually should discuss about these critical issues to decide which chain or which actually the algorithm should be better. So, that's really actually critical issue at this moment. I think there was a very similar issue that happened a few while ago about Ether. Would you like convey your thoughts about what eventually happened to Ether? How do you evaluate what happened with them? Yeah, Ether is a virtual currency of the Ethereum which actually holds your can handle your smart contracts. That's difficult to predict, but that's me actually doing the hat for quite a few times. So, originally the Ethereum was called Ether, ETH, but it's split to Ethereum Classic, ETC. Now that's got split to Ethereum Classic Classic, ETC. So, the hard work actually happened quite a few times on the Ethereum, which is not ideal, but there's a reason to actually make the hard work that they had to actually fix the bug, which is called like a DAO problem, DAO. So, there must be a reason, but it's kind of actually still under the sort of actual development. So, I don't think the Ethereum hard fork is a critical issue in the near future because people recognize this is just their instrumental. On the other hand, Bitcoin is different. Bitcoin is used as currency already, can't really actually hard fork, and if the whole ecosystem actually go under, then nobody's happy. So, this is a time to we need to issue the statement to protect your ecosystem, which has been running for the last seven years, seven, nine years, seven, eight years without any fail. Thanks a lot. One question for Mr. Karo, Karo-san, is that everyone says that Bitcoin is the digital gold, gold, gold. And also, but gold is quite useful for real physical industry, right? Yeah. It is quite very important for electric things or something like that. So, but Bitcoin is just digital data. So, but it already has the value, the real value compared to the fiat currency. But so, in this context, do you think that Bitcoin is going to secure the value in the future as a gold? Yeah. What is the most useful use case for Bitcoin compared to the gold? Okay. So, Bitcoin is usually compared with the gold, because it doesn't really have the value, but Fujisan actually mentioned it could actually use for the other real metal, physical specifications, mainly actually used for the CPUs, because it has a low, what is something like resistance, low resistance. And also stainless, stainless. Yeah. So, it's called actually intrinsic value. But I think the intrinsic value of the gold itself is much lower. The most part of the gold value is supported by the credibility that people can trust forever, since like maybe 4,000 years history that supporting the value of the gold. So, now the Bitcoin doesn't have any intrinsic value. This is a report that is issued by the BIS Bank institutional settlement, international settlement that doesn't have any intrinsic value. So, as Fujisan actually mentioned, there's all actually credibility. So, if people trust the value of the Bitcoin that has a value, otherwise it's gone. But for the use cases, I think the use cases in Japan especially is going broaden, just because there's actually virtual currency law will be for next week, April 1st. That's actually first nationwide virtual currency law has been established. This is actually amazing. This is amazing. So, the people can trust more because the government actually supports the virtual currency as an official legal language. And the customers should be actually protected based upon the legislation. So, I think the more actually the large companies getting to this market and there must be some use cases of payments, not only just in exchanging the year speculating the year up and down, but the year credit card payments, network. So, there's a lot of use cases that should support the value of the Bitcoin. I would like to run the same question for Fujisan. I believe you've been in the finance and technology for a very long time. Is private blockchain one kind of an answer to the banks in the 10 years time from now? Well, like I said before, it's quite hard to say that the current level of private blockchain software lacks most of the functions required from the finance institutions like us, you know. But like Hyperledger or Coda from R3 is quite quickly moving forward and their roadmap is quite clear that they're going to introduce more requirements from the commercial companies. So, if things are going well and maybe in the near future, maybe those of current implementation of blockchain software will be different. I think most of the software will not be like blockchain, like because you know, Hyperledger or Bitcoin blockchain is the architecture is chained blocks right now. But from the perspective of Distributed Ledger, it shouldn't be the blockchain. So, if things going well and many genius people are investing in those developing a new type of blockchain and if those blockchain software implements more harmful and more practical functions for financial institutions, maybe it could be interested into more not peripheral systems into the core banking system. But also what we are doing for the developing MSG coins, it's a quite practical trial project. But what we are seeing is that we are not only trying to issue the digital currency, but also we are focusing on what the consortium type of blockchain can change the world in five to ten years. So, what we are trying to do is that we want to build more decentralized applications onto our consortium blockchain. And maybe in this business network a lot of kinds of business transactions will be settled in the blockchain and lastly the payment will be done by our original currency. So, the answer is quite very good, but we are trying to move forward. Just give me a very short answer. Who do you think is the most core evaluator of change? Is it the, well, it used to be like all three, Linux foundation, Ripple, the other guys, who do you think is just the one person everyone should look out for? So, you should ask the same question to Kanosa. Yeah, he's going to ask later. Yes, so, but I think in terms of the amount of investment for like money on people, maybe Hyperledger is quite a good example of the publicly built blockchain. And also making, they're heading for different way Hyperledger, RSE and Enterprise Ethereum is also. So, but as I said before, if the, I would say the maturity of blockchain is, it starts the race from this year. So, we have to think about what's going on. Great answer. Yeah, future, yeah. Yeah, thanks. But also, short answer, who is the, it can be bit fly up. It's kind of difficult to actually mention about your competitor's products, but we see the Hyperledger obviously, R-3-4, possibly other actually blockchain product. We see actually still other developments, because it's kind of unstable sometimes. And not really actually, a lot of financial institutions are adopting that as a main system yet. So, it has pro cons. Even like Miyabi is considered as the fastest blockchain in the world, but you can't really separate into the different components like the Hyperledger, can't really actually swap the consensus algorithm. Maybe this is actually the benefit of the Hyperledger, but Hyperledger store. Now we have the, there's a lot of actually security is that the single failure of point is very important. So, this is called like SFOP. If the one component gets an attack and the whole system will go down, we'll go down. We should avoid to have the SFOP and then Miyabi doesn't have any SFOP, so that's good. So, we are trying to actually make some sort of actually Ferrari, which is really fast and reliable and only for their enterprise, not for their consumer level, because we are just focusing the most secure and fast and reliable system. Try to sell Miyabi to the large bank like here and hopefully you can develop that kind of systems. So, do you have any plan to submit the Miyabi to Hyperledger or Ethereum, followed by Iroha from Japan? I mean, do you have any plan to make open source your software? We don't have any actually plan to actually make it to open source because we also actually see their pro cons on there between the open source and the closed source. Open source is very visible, it's good, but also actually also open the vulnerability. Close source is difficult to actually detect your hacking point because it's closed. So, we actually keep the source code closed, but we actually open their APIs to the users like financial institutions. Okay, we are up with our time. We will take continuous questions at the café later on, but I think that totally really wrapped up our conversation. Thank you for the two of you for this wonderful conversation, and may I have your applause for this wonderful panel. Thank you so much.