 Welcome back, Nigerian governors have called on striking members of the Judiciary Staff Union of Nigeria, Jucern, to call off their two-week-old strike, or promising that they will start implementing financial autonomy for the judiciary latest by the end of May. Now Jucern had embarked on a nationwide strike over the inability of state governors to grant financial autonomy to the judiciary and legislature at the state levels. The governors had, however, earlier noted that they had issues with their terms of implementation. Now joining us to discuss this is Barrister Raymond Nkandebe and, of course, Wachiku Anthony of Jucern in Reva State. Let us start with you now, Barrister Raymond Nkandebe. What exactly are the issues? We have a constitution and for as long as I've learned, there has been a talk, the theory of the independence of the judiciary. What exactly are the issues? Why are we not having complete autonomy financially for that arm of government? Okay, thank you very much for having me. So can you hear me? Yeah, go ahead. We can hear you loud and clear. Okay. So the issue is, even though it appears to be a compliment, but in my opinion I think it's very simple to extend that this has to do with a very clear constitutional provision that guarantees the autonomy for judiciary both at federal and also at the state level. And at the federal level, you have that under section 1, 2 and 3 of the constitution. Because for some reasons, at the state level, the governors have refused to take to this constitutional provision. But in that sense, the federal government seems to be in compliance because you look at the federal courts receive their funding directly from the Pennsylvania fund on the federation. So it has to do with the state level of judiciary where the governors for some reason, for whatever reason have refused to comply with this express constitutional provision, despite several interventions by the JUSU, not even the judiciary itself, because in 2014, of course, there was a judgment on federal high courts that expressly pronounced on the economy of the judiciary. After that judgment, there was also an understanding between JUSU and the federal and state government officials to see how they can come together to enthrone this practice. But none of those interventions, and of course that was what led to executive order signed by the president last year to give effects to that constitutional provision. But again, you had the pushback from the governors under the platform of the Nigerian Governors Forum who argued that the executive order, to a larger extent, is an excess of the power to the president, and to that extent, it cannot be enforced. While some of us agreed with the views of the governors to the extent that the executive order was ultra-viralized by the powers of the president, that does not take away the fact that the independence of the judiciary at state level has been observed in the bridge by the governor. So this is what has led to this foreign strike by the judicial workers. Alright, thanks for that opening comment, Ambassador Wang Kanibi. Let's go to Port Hacott. Okay, I will try and reconnect with Port Hacott in a bit now, but let's really understand the true picture of this financial autonomy vis-à-vis the dispensation of justice in Nigeria right now. How does it really affect the day-to-day procedures in terms of the law codes, the judiciary stuff? How has it affected, maybe positively or negatively, if financial autonomy is not granted to that particular realm of government? Thank you very much. Well, you see, everything depends on funding. Every arm of government relies on what is funding, so I find it very important to know how it is possible for mitigation, isn't it? Now, the judiciary is an independent arm of government from the executive and also the judiciary. And so you have courts scattered across the country. Now, this part for them to function, they require funding. Talk about judicial infrastructure and all of what I view, when you take a trip to a court and see for yourself some of the negative effects of this lack of judicial autonomy, the courts are not well funded. In some places, you see courts without judges as they're taking notes long-hand, have a situation where judicial staff are not well trained and all of what I view. So all of this ties to the lack of autonomy for the judiciary. And it is a very active, not a thin case, it will impact positively on the quality of justice. All right, thank you so much. Let's go now to Port Haqqet. I understand we have Wajuku, an Anthony standing by Heiza of Amjuson in the river state. Can you really take us through what's the position of the striker in the river state? From what we understand, yesterday there was a protest through the government house. And the governor, Nisom Wike, said that autonomy, financial autonomy is already granted in the river state. What is the true picture? Can you hear me very well? Yes, go ahead. We can hear you. Yes, yesterday the protest was, the Jusun took them onto the NSE chairperson in the river state. And we submitted Jusun's position to the chairperson for onward transmission to his excellency, the governor of the river state. Yes, go ahead. We can hear you loud and clear. And the NBA did their own right to the government house. And also made their own position known to his excellency. But coming to ask me, if autonomy is fully implemented in the river state, I would like to say that Jusun's position in the river state is that we are not aware, because before we went on this strike, the Committee of National Executive Council of Jusun, that was raised on 13th of March, we served it on management of the judiciary, which is held by the two judges. We copied SSG, we copied the SS Commissioner of Police, present customary course of appeal. And they always, with us, quit orders. And within that 21 days ultimately, as you say, heard it in that communique. Nobody called the union to say, please, we have read it in the communique from National Secretariat. Item number nine says, after 21 days, if a full autonomy is not implemented, and the judiciary will order the members to sit at home. Nobody called me to say, no, don't join them. You're already enjoying it. Are you getting my point? Yes, I am. Nobody called us to say, Jusun, the river state, don't join all that things, because you're already enjoying autonomy. Nobody did that to us. And that is 21 days traffic counting and ended on the 5th. Consider that the 5th was the day we are celebrating our Lord Jesus Christ. And that is Easter. Then National Directed got the workers, every judiciary, workers, rendering services in every facility of the court, so we got the services. River state, belong to Jusun. And we cannot be an exception. So we complied with that National Directed. OK. So that is where we are. OK, let me ask you a very quick question. Yesterday, when the governor was, that's addressing your members as in lawyers yesterday, there was something that he said. I just want to read it out to you so I'll get your reactions. Let me put it right to you. I want to put it right to you. What are you putting to me? His excellency never addressed Jusun members yesterday. He addressed NBA members yesterday? Yes. And the different NBA and Jusun members, they are totally different. OK, but the question right now is that he was saying something to lawyers yesterday. And he said, quote, specifically, that he was surprised that lawyers did not say anything between 2013 and 2015 when the courts were shot down by the immediate past administration. I was even surprised not that they're even joining Jusun to call for financial autonomy. Well, I wouldn't come here to join issues with what your excellency has addressed to NBA. I wouldn't come here to either say it is correct or wrong. But I am here to tell you the position of Jusun in reverse state. OK, but then again, the NGF met yesterday and they said that they are not against the financial autonomy of Jusun. But the issue right now they have is implementation. Specifically, they said that we could start seeing changes from May. What's your position on that? Well, that question true is that whatever position the National Security Council of Jusun takes all the branches will equally abide by it. But the national has said that our position, they are not comfortable with it. And they are not accepting it. That's just the truth. OK, before we let you go now, Mr. Antonina, just tell us the true position of the court and of course the judiciary staff in reverse state. Are they getting the allowances as and when do you? What are the issues with infrastructure, the court seatings and all of that in reverse state? Well, there are so many issues, welfare issues in reverse states that are yet to be attended to. But for now, the song we are singing at the union is autonomy. And in the reverse states, it's judiciary, it's autonomy, the union is not aware. All right, thank you so much. God bless you. Wachuku Antony. Let's get back to Barista, Raymond, and Kannebe. You've had the position of Jusun in reverse state, specifically the back and forth between the NBA and, of course, the Governor Nesum Wike saying that there is judicial autonomy in that particular state. And just how do you react to Barista and Kannebe? Everyone stand down. Are you still with us, Barista and Kannebe? Yeah, I don't know if you can hear me. Yes, I can hear you, go ahead. OK, so I listened to what Excellency Governor Nesum Wike of reverse state said yesterday with respect to lawyers who visited him on the day the sentiment of NBA with respect to the crime. So I think his position is I couldn't find, I don't find it particularly rational with respect to him. And how so exactly? The issue is this. The issue is this, the judicial workers, as well as the NBA. Hello, can you hear me? Go ahead, we can hear you. Yes, yes, the issue is the autonomy of the judiciary at the state level across the state and even at the federal level. Remember, I told you before now that at the federal level, the autonomy of the judiciary has been in place to a larger extent. But that has not stopped the Jusun staff or Jusun members from also locking the federal court because solidarity ought to be the struggle to be a united struggle. You have got one Jusun at the federal or at the state level. Now, I don't practice a reverse state. I cannot look to what extent the reverse state government has enforced the autonomy of the judiciary for a reverse state. But assuming they are in compliance, it doesn't stop members of Jusun in that state also from the court. All right, thank you so much indeed. We appreciate your thought and your input on this particular issue of judicial financial autonomy for judiciary in Nigeria. Once again, we were joined by Raymond Nkanebe, legal practitioner and watcher, who Anthony Jusun, chairman in reverse state. Many thanks, gentlemen. Now, thank you for staying with us. We'll take a short break now to hear what Nigerians have to say about the mantle of the Yens as protesters and when we return, I'll be giving you my take. Stay with us. Oh, not at all. It's a shame, it's a disgrace that our government's natural attitude to this life of the citizens is something else. I really don't know what to say because you can imagine, lives were lost. Some lost their legs and their hands and he proposed opening the tool. Has a slap on the message. No, no, no, they haven't, that's all. People have to complain about so many things. No, they're trying their best anyway, but it's still sad to speak and they haven't done anything yet. As in to the standard of the, you know, people were expecting much from them, but the way they are doing it is very slow. Oh, really, the government has, to me, they've not done anything because it's like the evil doings of the people in which we are fighting are still going on. Because if people are looking, the government are looking at the people as if all their effort has nothing to do with them, I don't believe they have already done anything as to meet the demand of the youth in the country as per the answers. Well, actually they have not done enough to meet with that demand because from the onset, the reason behind the protest have not been met fully. Apart from allowing the sars as a body to go off the military arena, it does not mean that they have met with the demand of the protestant, up till now. People are complaining, why? Okay, people are giving a typical example concerning that Lucky Toe Gate. Why are they still delaying it? There was a gear that was giving a lot of evidence, so many videos that have not tampered with it. They didn't even do anything about it. Then that very day, they were saying it, they said, okay, most of the chips, microchips on it have been removed. So why are they still delaying it? Because none of their kit and kin is among those that are affected. So it shouldn't be, are you getting me? So they have to dig deep into what actually went on that very day. If they really want to find it out, they will find it out, no two ways about it. And that was the voice of the people. Now my take, the Nigerian authorities have failed to bring justice to those suspected to be responsible for the brutal crackdown by security forces on the peaceful hushed against us protestors at Lucky Toe Gate in Laos in Lagos on October last year, which reports said killed at least 12 people. The authorities deny opening fire on protestors and have attempted to cover up the violence. The government must bring suspected perpetrators to justice and prioritize genuine police reforms. How do we then get our state governors to obey the constitution and grand financial autonomy toward their counterpart in the judiciary and the legislature? Do we return to the court when there is already a subsistence judgment in the Jusson case that is yet to be obeyed? I believe it is left for the judiciaries at the state level to develop political will to ensure complete obedience to the constitution with regard to their financial autonomy. And that's most politics. I am Justin, cutting your return again, 7 p.m. tomorrow. Bye for now.