 Meredith Tarian, welcome back day two, trainer at Fundraising Academy, founder at the Ally Group. You had some really interesting things to say yesterday. I was telling you in the green room that it was, you gave me some thoughts that I had never really gone down that path before. And so I want to show everybody really quickly the questions that you presented to us yesterday. What does your organization do? How much time is this going to take? How much money am I prepared to give today? Where and will my gift even make an impact? And is the mission unique and my best investment? We're going to go through another five questions, but before we get going, I've got to ask you two things. These are not questions that your donors or prospective donors might be actually asking you, but they're thinking them, right? Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's an important distinction because our donors aren't even necessarily fully aware that they need answers to these questions. As prepared fundraisers, we know that we have to be able to address and answer all 10 of these questions that we're going through over the past couple of days here, but our donors won't necessarily come out and ask us how much time is this going to take, for example. But that's something that we know we need to be prepared to answer because it is a consideration that they most likely have as they go into a meeting with us. So that leads me to the second part of this question. And that is should we offer the answers up front? So for example, Jared had a brilliant concept yesterday when she said, because question number two is how much time is this going to take? And it's almost like I'm perturbed how much time will this take, right? And Jared said, she always in fundraising says, I need 30 minutes of your time or 45 minutes of your time. You brought up, if you're going to go on a campus tour, it could take four hours, right? So do we go ahead and offer the answers in kind of a surreptitious way? So that's a great question. I think that, so my personal preference as I go into meetings with donors is I like to let the conversation and the dialogue kind of develop organically. So some of these questions will come out right away. So for example, number one, what does your organization do? That's typically one of those like ice breaker type questions, right? So as you get into a meeting, maybe you're sitting over an ice cup of coffee, your prospective donor or your donor might say, so, hey, tell me about your organization. What do you guys do? But it's unlikely that they're probably gonna come out and say to you up front, how much time will this take? So I totally agree with what Jared said. Maybe you set the stage by suggesting is, hey, I'd love to have 30 or 45 minutes of your time. Yeah, it's such an interesting perspective because it's just, to me, I can only think of the word perspective. And so I loved, I thought all day long about what you had said, but let's get into donor question number six. What problems do you solve locally or abroad? These are the, this is a question just to reframe this, going on inside of the donor's head. They might not come out and directly ask you, but they're thinking this, right? Yeah, absolutely. And I think that yesterday, if you recall, we talked about some of this and one of the things we addressed is being able to identify or articulate to our donors, maybe what we do beyond the walls of our buildings or outside of our campus or whatever the footprint of your organization is. So being able to kind of articulate what you do in the local or broader community is really, really important. This question here, it takes that almost a step further. So what problems does your organization solve locally or even on a national or even a global level? So if you have the ability as a fundraiser to make those connections, right? On what is the impact you're making and really how far does it extend? Maybe you are a local animal shelter that really only addresses the local Tri-County area. That could be true, but if you think about that a step further, I mean, there are things that you're doing to preserve animal health or to educate folks on the importance of getting animals off the street or whatever it may be. And that education piece could have a much further reaching impact. So I think that being able to make that connection on not only what are you doing within the walls of your building or your facilities, but outside of that, what footprint do you have in the local or national community can really be at an important selling point, I think when you're building a persuasive argument. I think the other thing that I would suggest on this question is that if you notice the question itself said, what problems do you solve? So you have to be able to articulate, what are the problems here that we're trying to address? And then on a step further, how do we address that or how do we solve it? What is unique about our organization or what we're doing that literally solves those problems? So I'm curious because it almost seems like it goes back to question number one yesterday, like what is it that you do? And it almost seems to me like you're trying to communicate beyond what is apparent. Like we don't just feed, if you're running a food pantry, we don't just feed people, we give them nutrition so they can go to work or I'm just making that up. But do you know what, is that what you're kind of looking at is that deeper dive as to, it's like part impact, but it's also part education. Yeah, absolutely. And I think yesterday we said all of these questions that we're addressing yesterday and today are really a great exercise to go through as an organization or as a board because it will help you to develop your case for support. So all of these things should be addressed in there. And I can tell you when I'm writing a case for support for any organization, there are a few headlines or section headers that I always have. And one of them will literally say the problem where we identify and articulate what is the problem that we're addressing? And then the other section header will say our solution. So this question here I think is an important one because it gets to the point there, which is what is the problem and how are we solving it? And then making that connection on either a national level or maybe a global level, what impact are we making outside of the walls of our immediate community? You know, I love that you said that because this is like a question that it's not just for the donor, it's for the volunteer, it's for the staff, it's for the board. I think it's really, I love that you framed that up for us. Well, let's go to question number seven because it's another barn burner and this is a show on its own. We've talked about this and the question goes like this. So what are we getting in return? Are the recognition, naming rights, what are the opportunities? That's floating around in a donor's head, right? Yeah, absolutely. So at Fundraising Academy, one of the things that we teach in our curriculum is this idea of what's in it for me. And what we mean by that is that's something you have to be able to articulate to your donor because they are most certainly thinking it. This right here is one of those questions, Julia, like you said in the beginning, that your donor probably won't come out and ask directly. They are absolutely thinking it, but they probably won't come out and say, what is in it for me? What do I get in return for this? And I think it's important to note that a lot of donors do this altruistically, right? I mean, they do it because they wanna make a difference and they have good intentions and they have really pure intentions, but there is still that thought going on and I think that's just human nature. So I think that you're right, we could spend an entire session on this question alone, but in a nutshell, I think what I would suggest here is that it's really important as an organization, as a fundraiser or as a board or committee that you have answers to this upfront. And this is something that takes a little bit of thought and strategy. So what are the naming opportunities that you have at your organization? You wanna be really careful here that you have things that are clearly defined and consistent. So what you don't wanna get into as a situation where you offer one donor a naming opportunity for a $10,000 gift that maybe wasn't presented to somebody else who made a $25,000 gift. So this is something that takes a little bit of thought. I would give you an example here as I do a lot of work with higher education and there are some rules at each institution that are different. For example, what are the rules about naming classrooms or naming buildings? So you may have to work with certain entities or certain folks outside of your immediate nonprofit to work together collaboratively to come up with an answer of recognition and naming opportunities. If you don't own the building or you don't own the campus as the nonprofit or as the foundation, do you have the right to give away naming opportunities? So that's something that takes a little bit of planning and prep, but it's a really important piece that again, your donor is absolutely wondering. So just to clarify this, and I think I heard you say this in the beginning, but this should all be predetermined well in advance so that even if you have like a printed form or you have some metrics where everybody's on the same page, correct? It's not like a, well, let me go back and see kind of answer. It's you know this going in. Yeah, absolutely. I would highly recommend that this type of dialogue is had internally within the organization before you start meeting with your donors, particularly when you're asking for major gifts. However, if your donor comes up with a really unique kind of request and says, I would love to have my recognition or name beyond maybe a scholarship opportunity or just this morning, I went to actually the Humane Society of Tampa Bay and I noticed that they had parking spots that were labeled and said like thanks to the generosity of, you know, so-and-so donor. And I thought that was really interesting is that they had a parking spot that was a naming opportunity. So that being said, your donor might present you with something that's really unique that you haven't discussed and it's okay in those situations to go back to your board and say to your donor, you know what, that's a great suggestion. Could you give me a few days to follow up with you on this? Yeah, I love that. And I think also to Meredith, that's genuine. And I think also too, it's okay to say no. You know, to say wow, that's a great idea. Let me, you know, run it up the flagpole and see what everybody else thinks. But yeah, this is a big thing. Well, let's move to question number eight because this is a little bit of a shift but it's really important. And the question that a donor might be thinking in their head is okay, who else do I know is a donor of this organization? It's Bandwagon 101, right? Jump on the bandwagon. Everybody, you know, is doing this. And there's a lot of cachet to that, right? There really is. And this is actually one of my favorite questions. So to give you a little bit of background, many, many years ago I started my career teaching composition and rhetoric at the college level. And one of the classes that was my favorite to teach had to do with the different modes of persuasion. We talked about this a little bit yesterday and we said that to build any really effective persuasive argument, which is literally what you're doing when you're talking with the donor, you should have three things, right? And they should work together. That appeals to emotion, appeals to credibility and appeals to logic. This question here, who else do I know? Who's a donor of the organization? Is really that points to that appeal to credibility. So who else is involved with your organization that can be a source of credibility for you? So if you have maybe a really influential philanthropist in your local community who is supporting you, maybe it's a congressman or somebody on a political level who, again, or a county commissioner or somebody in a leadership role within your county or your community, you wanna make sure that you emphasize that to your donors because again, it provides a level of credibility. This is also the same reason that a lot of organizations use influencers. So celebrities or social media influencers, TikTok influencers, those types of things because the public at large follows them, trusts them and tends to take their recommendations. So I think that it's a really, really important question and I think there's a lot of different ways that we can answer it. So certainly in a dialogue with a donor directly, but also again, don't forget about the power of marketing and advertising. If you have the opportunity to have an influencer or a celebrity involved with your organization, maybe use that in some of your marketing materials because again, it lends to that appeal to credibility. Right, you know, it's so interesting Meredith that you talked about this because I'm reminded of the many pages often of an annual report where it's like all the donors and it's like teeny, teeny type point, right? But you look to see who the main donors are and it's like members of the community that have stood up with their resources and said, yeah, we're gonna support this agency or this organization or whatever, this nonprofit. It does have a lot of merit. Let me ask you a little bit more nuanced question to this. Is this something that you should have organized when you're working with somebody or is this more of a name dropping situation where you're like, oh, just the other day I was touring the campus with person XYZ. I mean, do you weave this in or are you more direct? So that's a great question. I think it really depends on who's name you're dropping or sharing. So again, if it's somebody who's really influential like a politician or a celebrity or an influencer that's probably something you might wanna lead with but perhaps it's maybe a board member that you know is a colleague or a neighbor of your donor. That could be something that you maybe weaved very delicately into the conversation and say, did you know that John Smith served on our board? I know that you two worked together a few years ago at XYZ Corporation. So I think it really depends on who the name is but either one of them will work as long as you are making that appeal to credibility. I love that. I think that's really wise and I think it's realistic too. I mean, right? I mean, because we have a swim. We have a social swim and people are, yeah, that's cool. Well, I appreciate you kind of giving us some ideas. Let's go to donor question number nine. And this is really interesting to me and I can't wait to have you really weigh in on this. The donor thinking to themselves, how long have you, Meredith, been with the organization? Talk to us about that. That is a great question. And it's one that I think as fundraisers we don't often think of. We're so focused on what we're asking our donor and what research we've done on the donor or the prospect that we're meeting with that we sometimes forget that they're often wondering the same information about us. So this is a really important question and it gets to be a little tricky particularly in fundraising. I can tell you that in nonprofits, development is one of the positions that tends to have the highest amount of turnover. There's probably a number of reasons for that that we could get into on another day. But sometimes we find ourselves caught in a situation where we're relatively new with the organization and that makes us a little uncomfortable at times because we feel like maybe we don't have that level of credibility that we need to be selling or influencing our donor or persuading them, right? But I think the best policy here is honesty. So you wanna share with them how long you've been with the organization and what kind of work you do with them. And I think the other thing that you might wanna share is maybe how long you've been working in that particular industry. So maybe you've only been with this organization for I don't know a year or so but perhaps you worked with another organization that was also in healthcare or in cancer prevention or working with animals, whatever it may be before you started working with this organization. And I think that that again gives you that level of credibility and you're still being honest with your donor but it lets them know that at the end of the day the real important piece here is that you are articulating and demonstrating to your donor that this is more than just a job for you, right? So this is something that you personally are very passionate about that you've spent a long time building a career around. It's something that's really important to you and it makes your donor feel like they're more than just a number or more than just a quota. So let me drill down since we're doing a drill down today even a little bit further and ask me the question and this is a highly speculative nuanced question but do you think donors realize that there is a fundraising professional or profession that you're not just like the gal in the cubicle over that said, oh yeah, I'll go meet with them. Do you think that they really understand the machine that cause selling takes and implies? So yes and no, I think that for some donors particularly major donors who are philanthropists they are keenly aware that there are fundraisers and that we have metrics and goals and that we are working towards securing a gift because they're not new to this process. They have probably been approached for gifts by many other fundraisers from many other organizations before. So I think that yes, there are some folks that are keenly aware of what our role is as fundraisers and what our ultimate objective is but I do think there are other folks those folks that are getting maybe new to your organization or maybe they're new to being philanthropic altogether and they may be less aware and I always think it's really important as a fundraiser that we kind of articulate what our role is and what our objective is in such a way that we're letting them know that like, hey, my role here at this organization is to ensure the sustainability of it. And so I think that when we frame it like that and when we let folks know really who we are why we're here, why we're meeting with them it kind of makes more sense to them. It makes it feel a little more intentional and a little less haphazard. I love that we had this chat and added this in because I really appreciate your approach and your thinking about this and it really goes to our last question and that is that donor thinking, okay, why should I trust you? And there's like it's human nature, a little bit of doubt. We're talking about giving our hard earned money treasures time valuables away. It's not without some stress for most people or duress maybe is a better word. So talk to us about that, this thought about trust because you can't just say, I know you're wondering if you should trust me donor this is why, right? I mean, again, it's nuance, talk to us about this. So I think personally this question here is the easiest one because you shouldn't have to actually answer it. By now, once you've gone through your process as a fundraiser, you've gone through your pre approach, you have scheduled and maybe had a few meetings with this donor, you've gone through your discovery process and asked them a lot of questions about themselves to understand what their philanthropic motivations are and you've answered the other nine questions that we've talked about in the past two days here. Really your donor should be well on his or her way to trusting you at this point. So throughout all of your interactions with your donor or your prospect from the very start from as early as sending your first email or maybe even connecting with their assistant or the gatekeeper, you are building a rapport with this organism or with this individual. So really when we get to this last question here, why should I trust you? At this point, your donor really ought to trust you by now based on your whole holistic approach. Everything you've done to be consistent, to be approachable, to be transparent and honest, you should have built a level of trust and credibility at this point already. This is also one of those questions like we talked about earlier that I don't know that your donor would ever come out and ask directly, but they're absolutely most certainly thinking it. And I think that there's not a whole lot you could say to answer this question. This is one of those questions you really need to demonstrate throughout your consistent interactions with this donor. So, okay, curve ball, pitchers and catchers reported for the MLB this week. So get your mid up. Have you ever been there with a prospective donor, somebody who really doesn't know you and you just have this sense that they don't trust you? Because again, this is like one of those ephemeral things. What would you do? Would you just keep talking about the metrics and the data or maybe you've never been faced with that, but how would you navigate it? So I think that, so that actually that's that exact scenario has happened to me before. And I know we're short on time. So without going into a lot of detail on it, what I can tell you is the donor was really unimpressed with our presentation when we met with him. And he came back and said to us, with all due respect, he said, you guys really need to go back and get your stuff together. He said, there are professionals, the work and fundraising that do this for a living. And he said, he was a philanthropist, like I said, who had been approached many other times. So, I think that really what we found there is that our preparation beforehand, before meeting the donor was not up to par. So in other cases, like you said, you might have somebody who expresses that maybe, maybe they don't come out and say, quite frankly, I don't trust you. Maybe what they do is they bring up an objection and say, you know, I'm just not sure that this is a good fit for me right now. Those objections will give you some kind of indication of what you need to spend more time really focusing on with your donor to make them feel comfortable. Thank you for sharing that because that really puts into practice what that question was all about and how it manifests itself. You know, two days of really interesting exploration here with Meredith. And let's recap the questions from yesterday. Cause again, these are questions that might not actually be articulated, but your donors or prospective donors, they're thinking about this when you're meeting with them. And it goes like this, what does your organization do? How much time is this gonna take? How much money am I prepared to give today? Where and will my gift make an impact? And then is the mission unique in my best investment? Then today we went through, oopsie, my fingers going so fast Meredith. Today we went through the next five questions of these top 10s. What problems does your organization solve locally or abroad? What do I get in return? The with them, what are the recognition opportunities? Who else do I know who is a donor? How long have you been with the organization? And then the last one, which is a fascinating structure is why should I trust you? Really interesting Meredith, I've loved this. These questions come in through as I turn the book, the cause selling fundraising academy text, which is brilliant. And you can see it's all marked up. I write things in the book and the margins. And so Meredith has been part of that. Meredith Tarian, amazing trainer at Fundraising Academy coming to us today all the way from Tampa, Florida. Also the founder of the allied group. You can check out fundraising-academy.org to learn more about the programming that is amazing at Fundraising Academy has. Again, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy, joined partially today until we lost some connectivity with my friend, Jared R. Ransom, CEO of the Rayburn Group, also known as the Nonprofit Nerd. Again, we have amazing sponsors that join us day in and day out. And they include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Staffing Boutique, Your Part-Time Controller, 180 Management Group, Fundraising Academy at National University, where Meredith joins us, JMT Consulting, Nonprofit Nerd and Nonprofit Tech Talk. Wow, you really got me thinking so much in a different way, Meredith. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Well, thanks so much for having me, Julia. As always, it was a pleasure and I love the conversation we had. Hope it was helpful for everybody. It was helpful for me because I gotta tell you, you really unlocked a perspective that I hadn't had, right? It was very logical. All your questions and your responses, incredibly logical, but it requires you to think from a different perspective. And so that's what I appreciated, Meredith. Thank you very much. Well, thanks so much, Julia, I appreciate it. We'll see you again. Hey, everybody, as we end every episode of the Nonprofit Show, we'd like to remind everyone to stay well, so you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow, everyone. Thank you, Meredith.