 Hello and welcome to NewsClick and People's Dispatch. Indian Central Trade Unions have given a massive protest call for the 2nd of August, calling all workers in trade unions to participate regardless of their affiliation and raise their voices against the anti-worker policies of this right-wing BJP government led by PM Narendra Modi. And to talk more about this, we have with us Dr. Him Latha, who is the President of the Centre of Indian Trade Unions. Welcome. Can you first tell us, start by telling us more about this protest and why this protest call has been given? It's basically against the, what you call the anti-worker policies, what is visible by the introduction in the parliament of two courts. There's the Code on Bages and the Code on Occupational Health and Safety. So these two are not meant actually for improving the conditions of the workers. We think that it should improve the working conditions of the workers or expand the coverage. But instead of that, what they are going to do is to restrict the benefits the workers are getting today. And the trade unions have been objecting to these, they were opposing to these even earlier. This is the Code on Bages bill. It was drafted earlier and the trade unions have, the meetings were held and the trade unions have opposed several of these things. Because one is that it does not include for the fixation of minimum wages, the formula decided by the Indian Labour Conference in 1957. After 1957, several times the Indian Labour Conference has reiterated that the minimum wages should be fixed on the basis of that formula and the trade unions have been demanding 18,000 per month as minimum wage and that is not because that actually is as per the formula but because the government itself has accepted that and the Seventh Pay Commission has recommended that and the government has accepted that. Actually even at that time, the central government employees confederation, they were saying that in 2015, the minimum wage as per the formula will be 26,000 but instead of implementing that, now what the government has appointed a committee, a so called expert committee to decide the procedure for implementing, for deciding the minimum wages and that has given some formula and as per that they have fixed five regional wages, not a uniform wage all over the country, national minimum wage but and it ranges from around 8,000 something to 11,000 something in different places. So it is not only half, even half of what the trade unions are demanding and along with that the codon wages, it incorporates the minimum wages act, the payment of wages act, the equal remuneration act and the payment of bonus act, four acts and these acts will be repealed and similarly in the case of the codon occupational health and safety at workplace. So on that also the existing acts around 13 acts which are at present providing some benefits to the concerned workers, they are sector specific like the Plantation Workers Act, even the Journalist, Working Journalist Act and the Medical Represents, Sales Representatives Act, then the construction, building and construction, BED workers. So all these acts will be repeated and in the codon wages and this also the definition of the worker and employee it is creating confusion and what these acts are saying that these provisions will be provided to the employees. And the Working Journalists and Sales Promotion Employees, they are defined as workers. So while the specific acts which at present provide some benefits to these employees, they will be repealed but they will not be covered because of the definition they are said that they are employees, I mean they are covered as workers, not as employees, they are defined as workers and the acts will be applicable to employees. So there will be a confusion and on that pretext they will be eliminated from all the benefits. So that is why we have been opposing and we have called all the Central Trade Unions except BMS have called for joint actions on 2nd August. So these changes they are being introduced as this re-elected government 100 day plan of action in which they are calling these big bang economic reforms in order to increase the ease of doing business and encourage more foreign investment. But in this process there are also some very other crucial provisions that are being diluted such as the provisions on regulations on workplace inspections and also health and safety. Yeah, that health and safety is in this code, the other thing is in the regulations are such are related to health and safety and the other thing is that the representatives of the workers, the trade union leaders, they cannot even raise the issues with the employers as per these latest code on occupational health and safety. The other codes that are already been drafted and on the issue of this industrial relations code on industrial relations and code on social security, these two drafts are yet to be introduced but they have been discussed before the elections. This government has drafted these bills and they have discussed with the trade unions and there also the trade unions have opposed this particularly the increase in the number of threshold level for the application of these things that is for the permission. At present the factories which have 100 workers they have to take permission from the government if the workers have to be retrenched or foreclosure but now that threshold the government wants to increase to 300 already the Rajasthan state government, the BJP government earlier government they have done that and at that time the central government has sent letters to all the state governments that they should follow the Rajasthan example for ease of doing business and if that is done that is if the threshold level is increased from 100 to 300 even today the number of establishments or factories covered by the Industrial Disputes Act is very low and if this is implemented then around 70% of the few establishments covered today they will be eliminated from the coverage. So around 80-90% of the workers will be eliminated they will be removed from the purview of these acts at all so as it is in our country 93% of the workers in the unorganized sector they are not covered by the Industrial Disputes Act and all these acts and then out of the 7% the number of factories that are covered by these acts depending upon the number of threshold number of workers etc that is even less then of those who are covered 70% will be eliminated so very few people will become so the government's argument that it will promote ease of doing business itself is not correct because that is not preventing the ease of doing business they don't want to invest because they don't have the market the main thing for the investment is if the market is there then they will be ready to invest now the purchasing power is low and the people they don't have the purchasing power and they don't they can't sell their products so that is one of the reasons for not investing so instead of addressing that issue putting money in the pockets of the people increasing their wages increasing improving their working conditions particularly improving employment it's not possible what they are saying is that it will provide employment by doing ease of making ease of doing business by improving that they say that it will provide employment but today there is no evidence that by removing the workers from their benefits and that will attract ease of doing business and then through that employment will be promoted even ILO says that it doesn't happen so only for the benefit of the corporates our domestic or international multinational that is what the government is doing particularly today in the context of the crisis they want to attract investment they come to India and exploit our workers by removing all regulations so that their profits they can protect or increase except that it is not and that can be means we can come to that conclusion from the announcement or the statement of the vice president vice chairman of the Niti Ayog so after the elections even as the government was taking oath what he said that the foreign investors will be will have a reason to be happy it is not the people or the workers who have voted for the government who need to be happy but it is the foreign investors who will be happy with the policies with the big bang reforms that is the labor law amendments then the disinvestment and the land pooling these three measures that they are going to do and how are these regulations the dilution of these regulations and the removal of these provisions for workers going to impact the unorganized and the informal sector in particular see there will be a lot of pressure already large number of workers are in the informal sector and they don't they are not covered and these workers also they will be thrown because of the unemployment situation the the higher end fire policy if that is implemented the workers as per the requirement of the employers they will be thrown off of employment so when the workers will lose their employment naturally when there is a large number of unemployment people then the bargaining power of workers whether it is in the organized sector or unorganized sector that will worsen even today the unorganized sector workers don't have that much bargaining power because they are not most of the laws are not applicable to them so it will further worsen and now the government has fixed what the minimum wages floor level minimum wages as 178 that is what they said only 2 rupees have been increased so this 18,000 is not there and even the 375 is not there what the government according to that expert committee and now it is 178 and that how far it will be implemented there is no machinery for implementation even the few benefits or wherever they get that so the wages working conditions they will get worsened and the government says that this social security code will be universally applicable but now actually the provident fund and ESI which are there they will also be repealed actually they said that all these acts are merged around 14 acts are merged in the social security code in that EPF act is there ESI act is there building and other construction workers act is there maternity benefit act is there so all these acts will be repealed once that code it comes into force but at the same time what is the guarantee and what is the means implementation where are the funds whether the government will be allotting adequate funds for the coverage that there is no clarity on that the government is not saying that we are going to allocate these funds for this providing these things so in that situation the unorganized sectors workers will not benefit even the different pension schemes that the government announced the worker has to contribute up to he is 60 years and he will get the benefit only after he is 60 years so he cannot withdraw his money so in the PVF EPF act you can withdraw your money according to there are some provisions but here they he will not be able to withdraw the money so he has to go on contributing and then his money also he cannot withdraw and only he will get pension after he is 60 years so a worker who is today say 20 years or so for around 40 years he has to continue to contribute only after that he may get and what will be the value of that money the pension he will get nobody can say today so instead of applying the EPF existing acts what we want is the existing EPF act ESI act they should be made applicable now unless you have 20 workers EPF act is not applicable 10 workers ESI is not applicable so what we want is that even if there is one worker you have to make it applicable and provide the infrastructure and the benefits to all the workers and moving on to the issue of privatization and disinvestment which is also a major part of this 100 day plan according to nithya yog the government think tank over 42 companies are being targeted targeted for either privatization or closing town so how is this going to impact workers rights and the employment situation in the country this investment and privatization is whether they may not apply impact the employment situation immediately but one thing is that the public sector enterprises are the wealth of the nation and they have been means contributing to the country's development in a very huge manner providing employment opportunities in the rural areas sometimes in the tribal areas providing the government with the resources paying the taxes and other benefits etc dividends all these things they have been regularly doing that and now disinvestment of privatization they say that even profit making things will be privatized public so what the vice chairman has said nithya yog that they will put on the public sector undertakings on a conveyor belt so they will be putting on this thing so selling off it is mainly to selling off the our nationals wealth so that is where the neighbor laws will be applicable where actually in the public sector labor laws are applicable the workers have trade union rights and there is this bargaining bargaining collective bargaining of the workers with the management's and these things take place but in the private sector the employers even don't talk to the unions generally particularly the multinational corporations they don't talk even to the union so the bargaining power of the workers will come down and then there will be now they are talking about compulsory retirement scheme in the railways so that way the retirement scheme all these things will take place mergers and so many things so ultimately the workers existing benefits will not be available to them the number of workers in the name of right sizing or this thing regulation that they are bringing down means not in retrenchment but it's a form of retrenchment like compulsory retirement in the railways they are asking lists for 55 years those who are above 55 years now they are asking lists and also those who have worked for more than 30 years so that way they want to regulate the number of employees so and particularly one of the serious things that they are doing is the railways in the railways this public sector undertakings they are they have decided and railways also which is a cheap method of transport for the common people it is two sided one is for the passengers for the common people second is for the workers and employees there and our production units now they have decided to corporatize and corporatization the railway minister is saying that it is not privatization but once they are corporatized then as a department the railways are giving orders to the railway these production units now they will be asked to compete with the other corporations are they including multinational and foreign companies so it is there is no guarantee that they will be given work so already they have stopped giving work and they are outsourcing it is not that they are not producing as per targets or the quality is bad it's not like that even in recently in the parliament the minister has replied that they are producing as per targets and the so-called Vande Bharat express it is produced in our Chennai ICF so we have the capability and our workers are able to produce but even then the orders are curtailed and they have to compete with the other companies foreign companies and if all storm and general electric they can come they will come then it will be difficult so in that way our instead of actually making in India our indigenous production capacity is being destroyed so that is the danger so instead of developing that it is being destroyed so that is a loss for the nation entirely it is not only for the workers workers will lose their jobs that is and similarly the workshops also they are also work is being outsourced they are kept idle and now they want to run trains private trains you know to start with they are giving to IRCTC and they will including the Rajdhani and Shatabdi trains they will run they will decide the ticketing they will decide the provisions and in-house services etc inside the train and the government has also decided that they will curtail the subsidies at present the government is giving 43 percent subsidies to the passengers only 57 percent is borne by the passengers now they say that they will reduce and gradually totally remove the subsidies then the fares will almost double so that today the passengers who are traveling in Indian railways they are mostly common people and poor people the comparatively well to do are using the airlines they are traveling by air but the railway passengers are mostly poor and common people and the daily passengers employees etc so it will be a burden on them so that way both the passengers will lose and this also they are doing because when the private players are coming to run the trains they will not provide any passengers subsidies so then they will not have the market so facilitate they are getting profits the government is bringing down the subsidies for the common people so the entire thing the policy of the government to curtail the rights and benefits of the common people put burdens on them for the benefit for the profits of the big corporates so that is why we are opposing and finally what are the main demands the trade unions are putting forth in this 2nd august of 2nd august protest and yeah immediately on 2nd august is to withdraw this withdraw or entire these labour courts which we have been opposing so and privatization privatization and disinvestment or outright sale strategic sale etc we want that they have to be withdrawn and these labour courts also should be applicable not passed and the welfare benefits for the workers should be increased the EPF and ESI they have to be applicable to all the workers minimum wages now in the recent memorandum to the finance minister before the budget all the trade unions have demanded that the minimum wages should be 20,000 because the 18,000 demand was placed in 2016 so with in the three years the wages have increased so we are demanding that I mean the prices have increased so we are demanding minimum wage of 20,000 social security benefits to all including pension of 6000 no privatization and also particularly the defense and the railways they should be strengthened no privatization these are the basic demands at present but our basic your 12 point charter of demands that is also there but in this we are focusing on these demands so what is the future plan of action in case the government does not listen to these demands that are being put forth on the 2nd august yeah all the central trade unions have given this call except BMS and the railway workers on struggle in all the production units they have been strikes and mobilizations Dharanas protest etc in Varanasi the prime minister's constituency the DLW workers they have demonstrated half naked when the prime minister went there in all the other production units also Chittaranjan Lokomotives Kapurthala Chennai Raibyalli etc demonstrations are taking place and that conventions are being held against this corporatization and privatization of the railways similarly defense employees all the defense units they have come together and they have also given a call for demonstrations and protests they have not decided the date but they said that they will be going on a 30 day strike to start with and the notice for strike also will be submitted they are taking a strike ballot so they are on the struggle path and the trade unions will be meeting on 2nd evening and there they will decide the future action if the government does not heed to the voices of the workers then the trade unions will decide and depending upon the response of the government we will take up a we will try to intensify the struggle further. Thank you for joining us today comrade that's all the time we have for today thank you for watching news