 Mae'r parwys yn ddefnyddio, a'r parwys yn bywydd. Mae'n ddefnyddio yn ddefnyddio ac yn ddefnyddio yn ddefnyddio. Maen nhw'n nhw'n ddiweddol. Ac rwy'n braf i'n ddweud, ydym yn ffaint. Rwy'n dweud yna o gymryd o arloed. Rwy'n rwy'n ddweud heb. Mae'r parwys yn ddefnyddio i'n ddweud. Rwy'n ddweud yna o'r parwys yn ddechrau'n ddechrau'n dweud arall hynny. Dyn nhw'n meddwl yw'r mewn ni'r llyfr o'r mysogiwn i ddweud y rhan o'r Naomi? Yr Lywydd, mae'n meddwl a'r Yamui? Yr Llyfr yn meddwl. Felly, mae'n meddwl i'r Yamui. Yn ymgyrch yn ymgyrch yn Ysgrifennu Cyddi. Rwy'n meddwl, flyny. Rwy'n meddwl i'r Ysgrifennu Cyddi. Yn ymgyrch yn meddwl i'r Yamui. Rwy'n meddwl i'r Yamui. Yn ymgyrch yn meddwl i'r mysogiwn i ddweud. Nesame i galta Pinteresta LOL cactus got his women as well-known. And there is the wonderful epilogue to Hosterra sy'n sh然 when he talks about his dead wife which is extremely moving. And the great lover of women and admire of women. It is not the same as Ghoragani. He doesn't love them for himself. For themselves, he loves them because they make men better. Now from the audience, Lady Info. This, well. I think, I don't want to say, I don't want to say why it went, let me put it like this. The, Vise and Ramin, I missed this out because I had, I had, I missed George the time. Vise and Ramin is a Parthen story. This was established by Mianorski, yw'r profesor here at Sos. In four papers he wrote in the 1940s and 1950s, and he shows conclusively that it's a Parthian story. The geography is the Parthian empire, it's nobody else, it's not the Sasanian empire. And the names are Parthian names, and there are other things he adduces too. The customs in it are Parthian customs where they differ from the Sasanian, it's always the Parthian that is in the poem. So Minorski established that Bison Ramin is originally a Parthian poem, which means it was written around the time of Christ. The legendary poems, the legendary stories in the Sharnamey are also Parthian stories. I think that the source of these tales of independent women who get what they want out of life and are presented in this kind of very feisty, almost aggressive way, but it's not an aggression which is seen as a bad thing, it's seen as this kind of wonderful mark of their spiritedness. Virtually all these stories, I think, they come from Parthian culture, they're Parthian stories. It's later when we get into the Sasanian period, the stories of the second half of the Sharnamey are Sasanian stories and in those stories the women are subservient to men. So I think it changes in Persian culture because Parthian culture just drops away, it becomes much less significant. And Visen-Ramin, for example, there are four manuscripts of Visen-Ramin and none of them were written in Iran, two are from Turkey, two are from India. This suggests that the poem very quickly sort of lost its cachet within Iran, it wasn't a poem that was... I mean there are thousands of manuscripts of the Sharnamey, there are four of Visen-Ramin and none of them are Persian. So the image of women which is presented in Visen-Ramin I think became intolerable to Persian culture and that's why it was marginalised. In this century the word Vis meant whore, it meant a woman who had no sexual self-respect at all and would sleep with anybody. That is the Parthian drops out of the narrative of what women can be and the other narrative which is a general medieval narrative, it's not specific to medieval Islam, it's there in medieval Christendom too, it's there in medieval Judaism as well, that women are there for the sake of men, they're there to have babies and to make men nice people and comfort them and so on and so forth. It's a general medieval apprehension, not specifically Islam, it's Christian and Jewish as well. But when you do get these women, you can virtually always find a Parthian story behind it, these fabulous strong women. Christine, in front, yes, please, over here. So thank you very much. I'm scared now. Not at all, not at all, but I just felt that I needed to add a little bit to those last remarks on Nezami. I do share your fascination for Visor Amin, I think it's an incredible story and I was very interested in the difference you made in the role of the female roles in the legendary part of the Shah Na Me and the historical part and I share that impression absolutely. You did not mention anything about Shireen, who is such an incredible character in the Shah Na Me, and if I may, I think she might be an exception to your idea that women are always giving good advice to the king. I think I can catch her out on two moments when she's actually giving wrong and bad advice to Khosrow, who will follow her advice in the second case and who will be caught in the gardens where he's hiding on her advice. So she might be a bit of an exception. Now about your last final remark on your analysis of female characters in later romances. I'm just thinking if I may make a suggestion that it's a bit unfair because the point that these other authors is so different when they're talking about women. Jami is a mystic and of course females are really dragging, dragging the would-be mystic towards earthly matters and should be left alone. Nazami as well has got different aims when he's picturing his females and absolutely none of them, none of these female characters are as interesting as these. I agree. What you say about Shirin is I agree. Ferdowsi's presentation of Shirin, she doesn't come out of it very well. In fact, she's a rather awful person. And it's interesting that Nazami, when Nazami uses Ferdowsi's stories, they're always stories from the historical part of the shaname. He never uses the stories from the legendary part of the shaname and I think he chooses the historical stories because he can mold the women in the way that is more acceptable to a medieval notion of what women ought to be. Whereas the legendary stories, it's very difficult to mold those women like that because they're so independent and they're so not subservient to men. But you're right. Shirin is a very ambiguous character in Nazami, in Ferdowsi and Nazami smooths away the ambiguities. He makes her a nice person and she's pretty nasty in the shaname. So yes, I agree. She is an exception to what I was saying. I agree also about Nazami having somewhat sort of ethical slash sufi aspirations for his heroes and obviously Jami, the women in Jami are not real women at all. They're kind of symbols. But in both cases, it's the women who are given the nasty role. I mean the women are given the role of the people. Well, especially in Jami. In Jami the women are given the role of... I mean Jami is terribly manicuristic. The matter is evil and the spirit is good. And women represent matter. It's not terribly attractive, you know. Sorry. Best, please. Thank you very much, Professor Davies. Absolutely delightful and very, very enjoyable. Particularly when you put the emphasis on the importance of the Parthians. Yes. I passionately share with you very much so. I thought you might. Their contribution is over underestimated. But I think one also has to take into consideration that the, as you mentioned, the Parthians came from a different background. Sure. And I think their probably tribal background plays an important role. And it has to be emphasised. They were Iranian people, but they came, as you said, from the northeast, they were rider nomads and probably brought a different tradition with them, which was mixed with Hellenistic traditions. Absolutely no difference. And if I may say one other thing, maybe the reason why in the mythological and heroic sections of the Shahnameh, particularly the heroic section, which is Parthian, which is undoubtedly taken from the Parthian, but disguised. One of the reasons why women from the northeast and the east are not regarded as foreigners is that up to about 300 AD, you don't have foreign peoples moving into that area. Up to about 300, you don't have Turks. And the stories of the mythological and heroic parts of the Shahnameh are also mirrored in the religious Zoroastrian texts. I mean, Turan is an enemy, but Turan is not at that time Turkish. So in the Sasanian period, you have the Turks there and you have the Huns. So you have physical enemy outside the borders. Well, I completely agree about the importance of the Parthians and I agree with you too. I mean, my own instinct to us to agree too, that the reason that the Parthian stories are the origin of these, the Parthian culture is the origin of these stories where women are so independent and strong and get what they want out of life is the reality of nomadic culture. I alluded to that briefly, but I'm not a historian, but it seems to me right. It's not something I can claim direct knowledge of. I'm dependent on secondary sources for it, including your own writings. But it seems to me right that in a nomadic society you need women who will take charge at times and be able to do things. And so such a woman is admired, that kind of woman is validated. When you have a sedentary society later on in which gender roles are much more strongly demarcated, women like that tend to be seen as troublemakers and a nuisance and a pain in the neck. What you say also about the Turks not being there before 300. Yes, obviously I accept that. It's obviously the case. The point was that Ferdosi and Ferdosi's audience and the Sasanians see these people as Turks and whether historically it was the case or not and they condemn them because they're Turks. The Sasanians say this Turks are they, this person who was born of a Turk cannot be king. They're not really Turks, but the fact that he's a foreigner means that his mother was a foreigner or that his mother is perceived by them to be a foreigner means that he's not suitable to be king. And that's quite different from how it is in the legendary part of foreign mothers the whole damn time. Very good. And I think one final questions from our host before he opens the gates of Meikadi. Hasan, please. Thank you. Though not as a special treat. Absolutely fascinating talk. Thank you very much. As a non-specialist, I couldn't but think when you were telling us the story of Isan Rahmin. Is there real concrete evidence that Gorgoni wasn't a woman? No. And I think it's possible. Though his name is Fakraddin. I mean it's pushing it to say that Fakraddin is a woman's name. I mean it's usually a man's name. I think it's always a man's name. But I was thinking like one of those women warriors who were fighting in disguise. I mean is this a woman who is really writing? I have not seen anywhere suggested that Gorgoni was a woman. But I must say when I was reading it, it occurred to me as a possibility. I don't think it's very likely. I just think Gorgoni was an extraordinarily sympathetic, empathetic, nice guy who really had, through whatever experience we don't know, but some kind of... Gorgoni, there's a wonderful remark by, I'm not going to be able to remember accurately, the poet Lidgate writing about the poet Chaucer. He says he was ever something for the cause of women kind. He was ever faithful or tender or something like that for the cause of women kind. And that's Lidgate's remark on Chaucer. Chaucer is very sympathetic to women. In Troius and Crisade, which is the English poem, which is most like Bicinromine, he does exactly the same as Gorgoni does. He tells his audience to excuse his heroine for what she did. He says that that is the nature of things and there's no point in making a fuss about it. I feel that Gorgoni was... Lidgate's remark on Chaucer seems to me to apply to Gorgoni. There is no evidence that Gorgoni wasn't a woman, but then there's no evidence that Gorgoni was a woman. And I mean, nobody's ever suggested it. But reading the poem, one does feel it's a possibility. Yes, he does. He comes from Gorgon. Yes, he comes from the Parthian homeland. You're right. Yes, that's a good point. This Parthians always have to have the last word. Well, thank you very much indeed. I won't do the serious substantial thanking because we've just started on this amazing journey and I really did not want tonight to come to an end. But I know that we will survive the weekend only to be back here on Monday for a second part of your lecture and you certainly deserve a long drink. So can I please invite you to show our appreciations in the traditional way before we go for a drink?