 from the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. It's theCUBE, covering DevNet Create 2018. Brought to you by Cisco. Welcome to the special CUBE live broadcast here, the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. It's the CUBE's exclusive coverage of Cisco's DevNet Create. This is Cisco's developer ecosystem brand new second event that they've done, and it's one and a half years in existence. This is Cisco's extension to their DevNet developer program, which is mostly Cisco developers. We'll see networking and theCUBE is here covering the future of cloud native, Kubernetes, and the future of application development as the network's become more programmable. I'm John Furrier, your host with Lauren Cooney, and let's say co-hosting with me all day coverage. Our next is Alan Nyam, who's the product manager at Google, Kubernetes Engine at Google right down the street here at Mountain View. Great to have you, thanks for joining us. Yeah, thanks for inviting me. So you are on the keynote with a fireside chat with Susie Weave who's heading up this whole program doing an amazing job. Google's no stranger. We all know Google to scale level, massive scale, running infrastructure, building your own stuff, really inventing the category, and then fast followers, Facebook among others, large scale. So you guys invented Kubernetes, so that's the fact. So tell the story how it started, because it was a moment in Google where Kubernetes, who's a debate? Do we keep it internally, we open it up, and you guys have history, you created MapReduce, that created the Hadoop big data, the search that we're seeing now and changing the view there, and a little bit differently than how Kubernetes was handled. What's the inside story about the creation of Kubernetes and how it's evolved? Yeah, so Google has been working with containers for a long, long time. It's nothing new to Google, and we wanted really to take a lot of the best practices associated with how we manage and run containers internally, and share that with the community as a whole. What we found initially was the move to the cloud was very much traditionally a lift and shift and modernized move. And there's a reason why only, I think the latest statistic I've seen is less than 10% of applications have actually moved to the cloud. What about the other 90%? So we wanted to bring some of the magic that Google uses internally, and bring that to the world, so that you can modernize wherever you're running for those applications that can't just move to the cloud. Why not provide a way to take advantage of some of the innovations that we've created around packaging applications up, deploying applications very seamlessly, and then eventually moving them to the cloud with less friction. And that was really behind the reason we took Kubernetes, which is really a set of best practices around how Google runs and operates containers, and made it available to the open source community. We could have kept it internally, and not shared it with the community, but then that really stifles innovation. Google is not about stifling innovation. We're about enabling the community to really drive innovation and build an ecosystem around it. And looking back now, it was a tremendous move. Yeah, and you know what? The leadership I remember at that time, and I wanted to get that out there. Thank you for sharing that. Greg, Nick, Lucky, Brendan, Bird, Joe, Dave, to those guys, and the team around them. It was kind of a small team, held the line on that. And the conversation was, this needs to happen in an open way. Mainly because you saw how to manage your workloads internally, and wanted to bring it to the masses. So real props to the original team. Really good call. And again, it worked out great. Yes. So okay, today, where are we today? Because now you go back at the creation of Kubernetes, you guys open it up, still contributed and nurtured it, now becomes part of a bigger part of the open source community. You have now new innovations. What is the update from your standpoint? Where Kubernetes is today? It's a well-known that the containers is now standard and standard. Now the business model container hasn't materialized. That's okay. The technical architecture is very solid. Kubernetes has become the favorite child in the architecture because of the benefits. What's the update? What's Kubernetes doing today that's compelling? What's the update? So just as you said, containers are mainstream now. Kubernetes is on fire. We see a world today where Kubernetes is literally running everywhere, right? From Google Cloud to other clouds to partnerships that we have like subsistco. You now have these clusters that are popping up in heterogeneous environments. So we've enabled developers now to really build services very efficiently and update those services in a consistent manner, regardless of where those services are running. Now, as you build more and more clusters and expose more and more services, the day two experience starts coming in, right? How do I manage this environment? How do I manage my services? How do I find out what these services are actually doing? Which services are talking to each other? How do I do more of the networking aspect around traffic management? And this is where I see a lot of the investments happening right now in the open source world with projects like Istio, which are fairly new but are taking a lot of the goodness that Kubernetes is bringing and applying more of an operations mindset around networking. What problem is that solving? Can you be specific? Is this, I like this day two experience. I mean, day three would be like, oh my God, how do you manage it beyond that? But what is the problem that's being solved? Is it more industrial strength? Is it more tolerance? Is it security? Is it all the above? What's the main problem? It's security. It's when you're running services in heterogeneous environments, there's no consistent security model, right? Istio helps solve some of that. It's service discovery. When services are running again in environments where you have different mechanisms for storing services, how do you discover these services? Now, how do you route traffic to the right service? How do you do canary deployments where perhaps I'd like to trickle certain load onto a new version and then eventually move all my work into the new version that I've deployed? So canary testing. Running services in geographic locations and using networking algorithms to route my requests to the closest location. Those are all really hard challenges that you need to solve. And technologies like Istio really make it possible for developers to get those benefits without having to write a single line of code, right? So you leverage this API to get all these benefits that I just talked about. We'll have to get Jennifer Lynn in to talk about that if we can. Talk about Google Cloud right now and vis-a-vis the momentum because a lot's changed with Google just in the past couple of years. A lot of people on board in new hires, industry veterans, leaders. And we heard Lou Tucker from Cisco say at KubeCon that Istio is probably the biggest thing he's seen in years in terms of its implementation capabilities impact the value creation of application developers and also create efficiencies and networks. How is the Google team right now doing? Give an update because you guys now in the center of and I've called you guys the real competitor to Amazon because I consider you and Amazon probably the coolest cloud and most relevant clouds vis-a-vis what clients want to do in a modern era. Not so much retrofitting legacy cloud to make it retrofit but really doing ground zero cutting edge cloud stuff. What's the update from Google Cloud? What are you guys most proud of? What's the things that you want to highlight that are notable? So Google Cloud's been growing at a tremendous rate. It's just mind boggling how fast customer adoption has been. What we've seen is the adoption has spanned all the way from startup to small medium-sized businesses extending into the Fortune 100s regardless of industry. And what we hear from customers is they like the clean APIs that Google provides. They like our compute infrastructure from a resiliency standpoint, the transparency that we provide in terms of enabling customers and running their workloads on Google Cloud. We've made a lot of investments in Google Cloud and we continue to make these investments. Now on the cloud native and container front, what we're doing, what we're focusing on is really a differentiated model where we are working with customers to enable them to modernize in place and move to the cloud at their own pace versus having to lift and shift an application to take advantage of modernization and APIs in the cloud. That's really a differentiating story that we're bringing to the table. Along with that, we continue to invest in storage, in optimizing our networking, in setting up more and more points of presence around the world. We added, I believe, over 12 zones last year around the world. So the growth rate has just been phenomenal. On the Kubernetes side, it's all about value. It's all about differentiated value as well. Google has been operating and managed Kubernetes service now for over two years. Building and providing a managed service is hard, right? We have the expertise to do that. We feel that Google Cloud is the best environment on the planet for running containers. And through this expertise, we will continue to invest to bring our services and make it a first class experience to run managed scale containers as well. Would it be safe to say that you guys are focused on differentiating and not trying to be the whole world, the test, everything to everybody, to really kind of narrow the focus? Well, there are table stakes that you need to address, especially around storage and networking. And we feel we've gotten there, right? Now, for a customer that's picking a cloud, whether it's Google or any other cloud, we've addressed those table stakes. But on the cloud native side of the house, when building containerized applications, we feel that we have a differentiated offering that really no other cloud on the planet can deliver on. That's awesome. Let's talk about, my last question is much more about developers' relationship to the new architecture. We'll call this the new architecture. You've got Kubernetes, which has done some great innovative work. Containers continue to be a great resource aspect of the architecture. And storage infrastructure becoming more programmable like what Cisco's offering. Great stuff. App developers, I just want to write code. So you've got some developers. How does a developer, in your opinion, Google's opinion, maybe yours and Google's opinion, view the, how do they determine their relationship to the network or the new architecture? You've got some guys who just want to write apps. I don't want to do any kind of speeds and feeds. Some guys want to get down and dirty and wire up some services and get in the middle layer. And some might want to get down low in the stack. How does a developer kind of peg their orientation to different parts of the cloud architecture? So when you really think about it, Kubernetes is a logical layer that sits on top of infrastructure that makes it possible to take an application that runs a certain way in one location to run consistently in other locations. So for application developers that just want to write code, we've got a clean set of APIs that they can take advantage of to spin up cluster resources, deploy their applications. We've been heavily focused as well on not just creating an amazing story for stateless applications, but stateful applications as well. So being able to orchestrate and choreograph your application deployment. Now for developers that want to get their hands dirty, the way we've designed Kubernetes is very much an extensible model. So the Kubernetes APIs can be extended and functionality can actually be overridden to tailor the experience. A developer may want to plug in a different type of controller, for example, versus the standard Kubernetes controller. So we enable that, think of it as a peel the onion approach, so that we can meet the developer where they are and give them the tools required for them to actually be productive in their companies or in the community. Awesome. And you guys have a deal with Cisco, a relationship with Cisco, you obviously are here at the DevNet creative event. Which is about cloud native, not so much about being a Cisco DevNet, the classic developer program. On stage talk about Istio, is that the key to the partnership with Cisco? What specifically is your relationship to Cisco? Yeah, that's a great question. So with Cisco, we've been hearing from customers a lot that getting Kubernetes up and running on-premise is really hard. We've also been hearing a lot from customers that they want support. So we got together with Cisco to provide a hybrid offering that tailors customers that want to start their journey to cloud native on-prem. So Cisco basically provides a mechanism for customers to actually run Kubernetes on-prem with a single support model for all their needs. Which is great for Google because this is something that Cisco fills again. They know a lot about that. Absolutely. Now for customers that want to start building in the cloud and connecting to the cloud, you need secure performance networking. How do you do that? Well, Cisco is an innovator in networking and security. Google is an innovator in cloud and open source technology and cloud native technology. So we bring these two things together to give really developers and sysadmins a world where they can collaborate and have an API-driven approach to running workloads that span a hybrid estate. That's great for you guys to open up your market to the enterprise. Yeah, I would say that also really gives an opportunity for network engineers and developers. And I think you talked about cluster ops in the keynote and new types of app ops that you're bringing to the table and what kind of roles do you see these people playing? Is you grow that ecosystem? Exactly. It's not just about the technology, but it's the culture within the company that oftentimes really drives, is a hard obstacle to bypass. For customers that I talk to, a lot of times they tell me, look, we've settled, we want to go with Kubernetes, but what about the internal culture? How do we build our teams around Kubernetes? How do we scale our services in such a way where we have specialization of service? And I talked about in our keynote, the whole notion of separation of concerns, where we introduced this new notion in terms of how Google does things of an application ops team. That's typically small in size, but their role starts for the developer role ends and basically they're responsible for taking an application from a developer and deploying it out into a environment. And then you have a cluster ops role team that's focused on the underlying infrastructure and maintains all the various cluster APIs, the Kubernetes environment. So think of them as like shared services that are very much tailored to enabling developers to do what they do best and build great applications and push changes in production very quickly. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. I know you got another hard stop, you got another panel. Real quick, I'll give you the final word. What's the one thing people should know about Google Cloud that they may not know about or gets buried in the noise of all the noise out in the marketplace? Yeah, Google Cloud is the most innovative cloud out there on the market. We have points of presence in literally every region around the world. Our APIs are some of the cleanest out there of any cloud, as well as the Kubernetes experience running in Google has been something that we've been invested in for over two years. And it's actually a highly optimized experience for developers that want to run their containerized application and very differentiated and 100% upstream compatible with Kubernetes open source. That's great stuff. I got to tell you, just Google team, we cover all the cloud players from day one. There's no shortcut. You got to put the work in, whether it's public sector or getting the building blocks in there. You guys are doing a great job. Congratulations. Thank you. It's worth noting, theCUBE covering all the action. The story here is Kubernetes, Google's creation, which is now open standard for all 100% upstream compatible here. The Cisco's DevNet great event. Back with more live coverage. I'm John Furrier. Laura Cooney after this short break. Senator.