 Southern Governors declare that the Presidency can't be taunted in North in 2023, while Northern leaders for him say they will not accept second position. And the former Deputy Senate President Ike Ikarimadu proposes the involvement of the South-East lawmakers as a solution to ensure the release of the detained iPop leader, Namdi Khan. For this, it's cross-politics and IMA and the public. The issue of zoning for the 2023 Presidency is in the news again. This time, several stakeholders have made several declarations. The chairman of the Southern Governors Forum, Rotimi Akiridolu, has said that the Southern Governors would not support any political party that fielded a Northerner as a presidential candidate come 2023. In a surprising statement, the Northern Elders Forum said the North was in the process of rebuilding itself and was not prepared to play second fiddle in a nation where it clearly enjoys numerical strength. And a former presidential spokesperson, Doño Cupe, has warned the leadership of the People's Democratic Party against presenting a Northern candidate for the 2023 presidential election to avoid another major defeat. He said major politicians were defecting from the party because of the issue of a Northern presidential candidate. We're joining us to discuss this and break it down is legal practitioner Obina Chiku. Mr. Shehul Gabbam, he is National Secretary of the SDP and Opanabu Inkotare, is a political affairs analyst. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. Thank you. Great. I'm going to start with you, Mr. Gabbam. If you watched the video from Mr. Hakim Baba or you saw the statement, you'd obviously understand where my question is coming from because he started by saying that the North is in the process of building itself and that it wasn't prepared to play second fiddle where it enjoys numerical strength. So I'm going to start by asking what you think he meant by that because we obviously know the numerical strength of the North but the issue of playing second fiddle, what do you think he meant by that? Mr. Gabbam, can you hear me? I'm hearing you and let me thank you once again and thank the viewers as well. First, let me say this, when I appeared on the same channel before, I made it very clear that it is dangerous, the kind of language the chairman of the Southern Sabunas is using. I've said it very clearly, it's not going to all go well for anybody or any zone, you know. This was very provocative. I've listened to him very clearly where he said most, most. So this is not a language of a politician who believes in negotiation, who believes in the very viable discussion to take care of the strategic interests of all these zones. And they have not been under any cohesion or intimidation or cajol when we supported the presidency in 1999 from the Southwest and it cannot take any act of intimidation or harassment or cajoling from anybody. Unfortunately, the chairman of the Southern Governors Forum, who is an elderly person, ought to have looked at the language he's using properly in the overall interest of the country. But his language is not quite good for the country, it's not quite good for building a consensus and understanding, especially nowadays that we want to have a very cohesive united and a country that understands itself more. The timing was very bad and of course the response of Akinbaba Ahmed is quite understandable, it's quite clear because it's an attempt to intimidate a region that is known by diplomatic and its ability to swallow the bitter pill in the interest of peace and unity. So I think his understanding, his statement is quite understandable and nobody is going against it. Unless we begin to talk to ourselves. I think we have a connection issue there. But I'm going to toss it to Oppenabar. Oppenabar, let's examine what Mr. Shehugabam is saying about Akinbaba Ahmed's position. He seems to think that Akinbaba is responding to, in his words, the speech or the messaging that has been coming from the southern governors and southern people from the south. So I'm going to ask, because Akinbaba Ahmed talked about the fact that the people in the north would not succumb to threats and they were not up for the highest bidder. I would like to get your response to that. Yes, thank you very much. I am a little bit taken aback by the espousal of the last speaker because I think I had got the past wrong. First and foremost, he said that the north in 1999 was not coerced into giving the presidency to the south, that south was precisely the second passenger. There was subtle coercion, occasioned by expediency. We had a situation where the man whose university had claimed to be the winner of the election was murdered in detention, and so to assuage the feelings of the westerners. Although Basindo was brought out and given the ticket and eventually melted the president. Let us not embellish the facts and say the way they are. In fact, it was a way of assuaging, packaging a region and at the same time saving up potential prices. That is one. And number two, he said the statements of the northern elders, I can't remember the name of who made that, the person who made that statement, was in response, the southern, the south is Cognos, a claim or a session or a posthumation, whatever it is. But that in itself is absolutely wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right. If Mr. A made a statement that you find offensive, I don't think it is proper for you to also make a statement that will extract the division that will extract the tenuous legacies of the encasement. No, let me finish. Let me finish. No, please. Let me just finish. Please. Because the truth about it is that, and if you also listen to the statement made by the NEF, it is incendiary because he made an emphasis on the issue of numerical strength. And we all know in this country that the issue of numerical strength is true, it is not true. Even if we take the issue of Cognos State, for example, it is not true, but they are located in some... I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But when you say it's not true, you're telling me that the national population commission's figures are not true, or they're not factual. You're saying that you're implying, Mr. Poonabao, you're implying that the Northerners... The numbers that the numerical strength that the Northerners are laying claim to is false, and that means that the NPCs complicit in lying to every other Nigerian in this country. Is that what you're implying? I'm not implying, I just stated in the category care, I said I'm not a Kuwiboka, it's not the case of circumambulation, I'm not, that's what I'm saying, I know what you're talking about. I am not a Kuwiboka. It is mandatory, serious. I made a statement on Cano, before Cano was split. How many local governments? How many local governments? How many local governments? Who are you for me? The origin is still in favor of the particular section. And now you're telling me that based on the numerical strength, we have a country, this is a country that is causing into a transvestite called Nigeria, we have a country where we have a lot of injustices going on, and even like in America, you have the college system. Why do you have the college system? It will take you of other states, because if you go by numerical strength, a lot of states in America cannot produce the presidency. That is why you have the college system. Why do you have the federal character in Nigeria is to address all these issues. Now you have a president from the North that has been in office. It is an unwritten agreement, an unwritten code that, look, let us in the interest of one man in the interest of one man in the interest. Why, if it's not written, if it's not legal, if there's no document that says that this is what we must follow within the political parties across the country for power sharing. Why should anybody follow it? But just hold that thought, hold that thought. Let me go back to Shehul because he was caught off. I will come back to you. Just give me a second. I will come back to you. I promise. Is Shehul back so we can get him to respond? Mr. Gaba, are you there? Before we, you got caught off, you were trying to make a point. Go ahead and you've had what Mr. Tyre has said quickly. Let's take your thoughts so we can go to Parasatukul. Okay, are you hearing me? I can hear you. Okay, let me say this. I've not had what the barista have said at all because the network is very poor. But I had to be saying that there's something like subtle intimidation in 1999. I think there's a lot of ignorance of what happens and I don't think he was in the system by then. I was part of the formation of PDP from the G7 to G18, G34, when other equipment and orders were brought into balance and make a very viable political structure. Number two, I was aware of what happened that led to the zoning and also people who went against it. And I also want to say this, if you are inviting me on such program, please don't invite me and leave me with people that have no decorum. I'm here to speak with you. Mr. Dabam, apologies, you cannot demean anybody who's on this show. You can speak to them decently with respect. Do not say that they do not have decorum. I guess that that's how he sounds, but that doesn't mean that he's being disrespectful in any way. So please, let's respect each other. I need to be respected and otherwise I can't go where he was going. So let me say this. I'm not the one who generated the statistics, most informals, and the statistics are verifiable. I have been to every state in Nigeria. I have been to every state in Nigeria. I have been to majority of local government in Nigeria for campaigning. So nobody can tell me what this state is or what that state is. I have been to actually all the top politicians in Nigeria in every state or the Federation. So I'm not speaking from an empty background and I've told you from the beginning, people should not provoke the system because we don't have career politicians that are mounting positions, very sensitive positions. Majority of the governors came in by accident. They were not trying to be there to, you know, they don't understand the statistics. So I imply that... So who are the people that are... I want to take you up on something. Mr. King Baba Ahmed said something about being... Hold on, hold on, Mr. King Baba. I'm going to let you get to the point. Just hold on. We're having a conversation. Hold on. When you say that most of these governors were not trained to get to that position, they got there by accident. I want to draw your attention to something that Mr. King Baba Ahmed said about the fact that the North is able to lead or they were designed to lead. That's what his statement implied. But I'd like to quickly just go to it exactly the way he said. He implied that leadership has fallen on them somewhat and they seem to be the ones that should lead, knowing that they have more numerical strengths. So is it true that maybe the people in the North have been trained to lead from the get-go and so they have better information and knowledge as to lead this country? Is that what you're implying? Who was implying that? You said most of the governors who have come into power were not trained, they got there by accident. Is there a training school of sorts for these people to become governors? I mean politicians are there because they feel the need to run or maybe the people want them to run, whatever reasons. I mean. But when you say that they happened on those positions, can you please explain to us what you mean? That is what happened to the country and that is what I have explained. In the country that in 1999, you know, when the consensual politicians came together to fit their individual differences and form a political party, you know, that accommodated all set of opinions across the length and breadth of Nigeria, you know, it was beautifully accepted and so on and so forth. So for that reason, we have sought full of credible politicians to contest for position because the thinking of the political class then is that there's likelihood for you to have a military intervention. So they stay aside and then people who were part of the military regime and make some money within the military regime who like credibility and decency found themselves within a political party. They use the money they have and buy most of the positions and they were there. Compare to people that have been, for instance, from from your own state, there are people that are defined, that are known, there are politicians, you can talk about them. They were exchanged and then what that goes into where we are today. It has nothing to do with either regional. So it has to do with the background of an individual, somebody maybe like a lawyer. He was trying to be a lawyer. He doesn't want to. Oh, I think that we lost that connection again, Mr. Gabba. Well, let's go back. Let me go to Barca Chico now, because I think that we'll get back to you, Puna Bosa, respond to Shayhu. Barca Chico, let's let's look at those who are agitating in the country because we see all of these agitations, especially in the southeast and now the southwest. The southwest is asking for your abomination. The southeast has been agitating for so long. And then, of course, the system has thrown up these non-state actors who are right now in custody. And with this sensitivity, you know, all around the country with the tensions that we're experiencing, it's just the best time for such sensitive statements to be made. And I'm not just referring to that of the Northern Elders Forum, but of course, what the governor, the leader, the governor that leads the Southern Governors Forum, what he said. Thank you for having me. First, I will say that the statements credited to the Southern Governors Forum and that of the the one from the north or the statements that the one you mentioned. I want to say that, number one, this is not the time to make that kind of statement. We have only gone into the second year, so second year plus some fractions of a few months for a four-year term. And what do we have? Politicians, the so-called elites, congregating to determine how or who runs or who leads Nigeria in 2023. Looking at all the statements, both from the south, that of the south and that of the north, I can tell you that the statements are from the usual, the usual people, the people that have been benefiting from Nigeria since 1990 now. None of them there has ever or will come to say that he has not benefited. Who are the people suffering? The poor masses. At the end of the day, the so-called Southern Governors Forum will make their statement that of the north will make statement. At the end of the day, they will again shortchange the masses. Look at all of them. Check them from the beginning to the end. All of them have been benefiting from 1999. Some of them were commissioners in 1999. Today, they are Governors. Tomorrow, I can tell you by 2023, almost all of them will be contesting for presidency. At the end of the day, who suffers? The poor masses, they have not even I'm sorry to speak over you, Mr. Chukka. Nigeria, they are struggling to govern. Look at the level of agitation from the south-west, from the south-east, from south-south, from north-west, or from all comments of this nation. Everybody is disenchanted. People are agitating and protesting. So I ask, so that's why I want to ask this question. Is it really the thought, Mr. Chukka, can you hear me? Can you hear me? Hold on, hold on, let me ask you a question. Just hold on, if you can hear me. Hold on. Is it the force of politicians, and I'm not in any way absorbing them of anything, but is it really the force of politicians that the average Nigerian who you are saying that is disenchanted or feels disenfranchised or not carried along? Is it the force of the politicians that this is happening? Is it the politician who has said that you should not... Is it the politician who said you should not be part of partisan politics to determine what happens within the political parties before they field the candidates? Is it the politician who holds you at gunpoint to say don't join a political party or be part of partisan politics that can help you make decisions at whatever level? Is that the politician's fault? Let me tell you how this works. Let's say let's look at people's democratic party. Now they are agitating that power that they have zoned their office to a certain geopolitical zone. By that, they have somebody in mind while doing this zoning. From that zoning, they have completely shut out the other group. The same thing if you go to the all-progressive Congress. All-progressive Congress will also, because of one or few persons, zone their political or the political space or the presidency to that very geopolitical zone. By that, they would have shut out the other zones or the other people. Then again, they now force people to now say you're a loyal party man. You must vote for that person. That's the person that we have nominated or the person that is our consensus candidates. From there, the person goes into election. Whether the vote of the people counts or the vote of the people does not count, that is immaterial. At the end of the day, a president will emerge. When that president will emerge, immediately the geopolitical zones will start preparing for the next election. Nobody sits down to say, what have you done? You promised these that and that, this political party. Come and show us your scorecard. How many of the promises that you made that you have been able to fulfill? Nothing like that. I heard from one politician from Anna Branstad the other day. He said whether the people comes out to vote or not, what he knows is that a governor will emerge from Anna Branstad. That's how the Nigerian politician thinks. At the end of the day, the masses are forced. Of course, they have shown disparage. They have sold them to the masses of this nation that the masses can no longer have nothing to do. You come out on the street to protest over bad governance. You are slaughtered. You are killed. The soldiers, the military, secret agencies are deployed. At the end of the day, who suffers, who bears the brunt, the poor masses, all the people that are shouted, that are making statements, inflaming the system here and there, telling us how the masses has the largest population, how the south is now where the presidency should be zoned to. All, I can tell you, are for personal interests. None of them can show me all the governors. Let the governors show us the poverty index in their states. Let us see whether they've been able to lift even a hundred persons from their state, but I ask my question again. How many of us, those people that you refer to as the masses, I hate that word by the way, those people who are in those states, they seem tight-lipped. They're not doing anything. What have they done to bring those governors, because we're quick to point to federal government that government has not done this. The Bahá'í administration is this and that. Yes, we understand that the Bahá'í administration has its own problems. The government that is directly affecting our lives, what have we as a people done to bring those people to accountability? Were you in Nigeria when Ensar's protests happened? Part of the demand for Ensar's protests was for good governance. What happened? Within 48 hours, those masses, the youth, were immediately removed from the streets. Good listening to them. There's a complete disconnect between the so-called politicians, the government, and the people of this nation. All that politicians care about is zoning. Like they have all come out. I can tell you henceforth they will take over the media. They will grant all kinds of interview, tell you how they possess, they wear without all the monies, the forms that they are using. Is it from their pocket? It's from our money. The money that came from a common post. That's what they are using. They have so mesmerized the poor masses, the masses of this nation, this nation, to the point that the masses are no longer interested. They can continue to govern. The masses have even handed them over to God. It's only God that will judge all of them. What they are doing to this nation, the government will come for a time of four years, no achievement. At the end of the day, look at two years into. We can still do projects for two years into. We are talking about the masses. I need to move on to say it must be them. I need to move on to Inko Taira. I need to move on to Inko Taira. I think we lost him at some point, but let me go back to Inko Taira. Mr. Taira, are you there? Can you hear me? You caught me short. Yeah, you didn't lose me. You caught me short. Apologies. Let me come back to you. There is a statement I was trying to quote to Mr. Gabbam earlier on, and I'm going to do that to you now. Mr. Akin Baba mentioned in his statement that, I quote, we inherited leadership and being honest is not being stupid, he said. And he also says that the North is ready to build its economy. Now I want to ask, there are regions in this country that feel that they have never had a shot at leadership in this country. And I'm not necessarily talking about the South, because the South has had some opportunities to run, but there are certain regions in this country that feel that they've been shortchanged. So my question is, where does this statement leave those people? Because there are so many people who have hopes for 2023. Does this mean, because again, Mr. Akin Baba has said that they will not play second fiddle, and I'm trying to understand what that means. Is it that they will not deputize? I wish I was sitting with him in the room to ask this question. But the question is, what happens to those people who've never had a shot at leadership? Does that mean that those people will not be carried along? Does that leave them out totally from the country? And does this mean that we might also be seeing agitations from those people who feel left out, aside from the guys we're already seeing agitations from? First and foremost, I am one man who believes, like I was saying before I was caught short. Even in America, you have the college system. You all know what the college system is all about. Because without the college system, then the minorities in America will be disadvantaged. That's why you have the college system. Now in Nigeria, we talked about the zoning. Like I said, it's an unbridled issue. When legal imperatives are antithetical to democratic ethos and legitimacy, then we must allow the democratic ethos and legitimacy to outdistance the legal imperatives. And that's actually where the issue of equity comes in. Now we talk of the situation in Nigeria. They talked of numerical strength. That's why I said it is not allowed. And that's why I made reference to 1999. Then they had the numerical strength. They claimed in 1999, yet it was given to about in the southwest, because of what happened. If you talk of justice, equity and self-will, the truth is, if you ask me, I will say, the presidency should be zoned to the southeast. Because the southeast right now feels marginalized. Some people say, let it be plans on meritocracy. Talking of meritocracy, every region, every region has qualified candidates. But we talk of even the federal character in order to ensure inclusiveness, oneness, and to make everybody believe that you're part of the system. Because if you've done a numerical strength, then that is what is leading to life, that is causing the problem we're having today. That's what I'm talking about, separate these groups. So if you ask me, I will tell you the truth about it, it should be zoned to the southeast. Southeast. Then we can now say, okay, let us talk of the best. That meritocracy takes precedence. But if right now you say no, let the best, or you plank it on numerical strength, why would bread turn to stone in my own mouth? That is what the southeast cannot relax. Because when it was a term of every other person, you talked of zoning. Now that it is my term, you are talking of no, let the best. Then they feel that they have been marginalized. And look what I said, Southeast must not be within an altruistic junction. And that is the problem in the southeast. So if you ask me genuinely, this should go to the southeast. And after all, we cannot sit back and talk of zoning. Well, before we wrap up, I just wanted to see, Mr. Gabambac, let me just quickly ask this last question. Because with the Southern Governors taking a stand, and now the, he's not here. Okay, I'm going to throw this question back to Mr. Chico. Okay, he's here. Mr. Gabamb, with the Southern Governors Forum taking a position, and with the Northern Elders Forum taking this position, where does this leave political parties? I'm asking you because you're a party man. And there's obviously the PDP who's opening, who's open to zoning. There's also the APC who has two different ways of, you know, throwing up a candidate. Half the time they have consensus candidates. But where does this leave all the political parties? Plus, a former presidential aide, Donion Coupe, has said that if the PDP does zone this to the north, they are going to lose. And let's not forget, for the past two election cycles, the PDP's ticket has been to the north continuously, and they have not been able to get that position. But does changing the zoning give them any leeway? And let's also talk about the APC, including your party, the SDP. What does the future hold in closing? Well, the situation was sorted itself by 2023. Some of these rhetorics will not be the solution to the problem. It's going to be a very practical thing. Chief Donion Coupe is my very good friend. We've been comparing notes. And I think I agree with a lot of analysis done by Dr. Obinna. You can see that he's flowing from the brain. He's just talking from the mouth without connecting with the head. Mr. Gabbam, please do not insult the sensibilities of other guests. Please make your point. Thank you very much. I will say this one last time. Please do not insult the sensibilities of other guests. Please we do not want to have a back and forth if you can quickly answer the question so we can wrap this up. Thank you. So most of what Dr. Obinna has said was right. This crisis has been generated by politicians almost 60 to 65 percent. And of course the voters take the other problem because they are the one who queued to vote for either a competent or incompetent person. Above all, at the end of the day, after all these hits, those who created the hit will sit down and dialogue it out. I know that we belong to different political parties. So the party has to zone itself. It has to decide where they was on the presidency too. It is not even the governor who belongs to different political parties that will determine where the position will be zoned to. It is the political parties that will say okay, we are either zoning or we are not zoning or we will allow the competent person to come on board and contest. So generally, I'm not worried much about the hit is going to fizzle out. One selection is the campaign issues are on. This thing will be sorted out. Politicians don't have to sort themselves at the appropriate time. All right. Well, we have to go. Thank you very much. Sheru Musa Gabbam is of the SDP. Boris Dabinachuku is a legal practitioner. And we also had Oppenabó Incultaria. He is a former governor, former aide of the governor of the river state and is also a political analyst. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for being part of the conversation. We appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. All right. We'll take a short break now. And when we return, we'll discuss the solution of the former deputy Senate president, Aqueduct Model, to the detention of iPop leader Nambi Khan. We'll be back after this break.