 Thanks for joining us on a brand new episode of 420 grams and as you may have guessed in the text that we put out on the video, we're going to be talking about one of the most professional teams in Indian football. So then since we're talking about a professional team, it's only apt that we come across as looking a little professional. So gone are the t-shirts, gone are the chappals, gone are the chadiyas, gone are the shorts and here we are in proper attire. My name is Arjun Pandit and I'm joined by someone who's also taken the proper route as far as the attire is concerned. Siddhanth Ani, my brother, yeah amazing yeah amazing. So before of course we get the third person in the show, you know what Chamuvi said when I left the house in the morning? Chamuvi your wife. You look like a retired professor with no will to live. Then you come to the right show, exactly the right show. We're also joined by former India captain and Indian legend Renédy Singh who is joining us on the show. Renédy Bhai I have to ask you before we get into all things Bengaluru FC. Who do you think is looking sexier firstly putting you on the spot? Brother you both are looking great but one thing I must say Siddhanth has left the chappals and t-shirts. So today at least I'm on the t-shirt. So this is the first time he's really looking good. So he's looking really good and you are always on the tip top. Renédy Bhai by the way you haven't seen my game changer here, close camp please. Here's my game changer. Renédy Bhai by the way we were expecting you to bring your A game because you always bring it as far as the clothes are concerned. So Renédy Bhai straight into it you watched the Bengaluru game on Odisha. Courtesy that 3-0 win of course they've gone top of the table and now they're on top of the table as far as the league phase of the ISL is concerned. What did you make of those 90 minutes firstly? You know Odisha has been playing very very well as well but yesterday if you see that Odisha could have scored even on set place but you know they couldn't take it. Bengaluru this is not the first time they are doing well on set place they have been doing well for many many years that means they have worked they have been working every single week to get that result and it has been helping. Look at Sunil Sethra how many goals he has scored on corners free kicks and even on penalties so that they take this very very seriously and we have to remember that you know a lot of players they don't take seriously on set place but set place you you can score so much and they are getting a result and yesterday like I said they could have scored 2 in 1st half Odisha but they couldn't. But Renédy Bhai would you make of this entire talk that's happening because a majority of their goals are coming courtesy set place of open play. The highest goal scorer is Chhetri of course who scored more than 50% of their goals you reckon that's going to be a problem moving in to say the playoff stage where every team is analyzing what you're doing and you can always cancel out a good set play. Yes but you know when you have good set place you know that how organized the team is you look at the defense they may not score much they don't have Miku we were talking about so when you don't have Miku they have to rely on set place and too much pressure on Sunil Sethri and yesterday we have seen that Brown have started playing before that the guy was there in place of Brown he couldn't he couldn't play at all but we could see a little bit of changes yesterday at least he was making a run Brown but not to that extent where what Miku was doing for many years. So yes set place it plays an important role and I think if they can keep compact they will not score many goals but they will not concede goals also and that will help at least for this league. I think I think one really good thing for me Bhai was that when they took out Brown which was I think in the 65th or 70th minute then they put Ashik Karunyan up as a striker who we saw him in Asian Cup and then we saw his combination because Ashik was coming from the left, Chetri in the middle of that Suresh Wangjam he was playing in 11. On the right you saw Danta Singh and then of course you also had Nishukumar bombing from the left and you know it was really nice to see in a league where you have so many foreigners playing and a lot of the supply route and whatever is happening in the ISL you might agree with me you may disagree with me but it's all coming through a majority of your phoners but those last 20 minutes from an Indian football fans perspective was really good to watch because these guys were taking them apart with that five Indian setup going forward. Yeah yeah and it was I think I think because we often read Udanta that he is clearly working on the crossing I don't know whether it was because of the defensive matchup that he was getting more time but the ball was going well and this obviously anybody you're the coach so you you can comment on this more but definitely you get a sense that they've worked out the combinations on the training pitch where Udanta and Eric Parthaloo are kind of like he's looking for that guy that guy is then putting some kind of ball into the danger zone the six yard box either it's a shot or like you saw you know a deflection or half short half block whatever second chance opportunity which then Bheke capitalized on. That set piece Dimas Delgado was the one who was taking set pieces. No, no miss chances were there but this combination I think seems to be working and I guess you're the stats that you were talking about Eric stats for the season kind of reflect how he's become maybe not an outlet but like a key sort of linchpin in the whole offensive system that Bangalore has and I think when as we lead into the wider conversation about how much money is being spent on building these teams etc etc we can get further into some of that because it connects up I think to both sides on both sides. Yeah but Randy by just a word on Suresh Wangjam under 17 captain captain of the team of course that played in that World Cup no that was Amarjit Khyam sir but he of course up until that World Cup he was always captaining the second but then of course Amarjit was made captain but Suresh Vinandy by I think this was his first or second start of the season and a lot of running up and down and you could see the way he was covering space as well they were playing in that three-man midfield with Dimas Delgado was the one who's always moving up and then it was Eric him and him at the back who were always covering the spaces yes for me I feel Suresh did okay but he hasn't played a lot of games he had played for reserves where Musa is coaching but I think he still have to show a lot he still have to work more he has to have to prove that you know what we do is we give a lot of credit to the youngsters but then now this youngsters they shouldn't be just for a two match they should play continuously well and and he did okay but we have to give credit coming back to the set place we have to give credit to the Bangalore for the great set place but creating upfront is what they have to do more we have seen against Goa also where Goa in the first half they were they were all out and they could have conceded more so what about when they when they face a much organized opponent with set place and that's where they're going to you know get stopped so they have to work on creating more where where they could score and Suresh Vaghazam I think he have to play a lot more he have to show a lot more to be to be at par with his yes this is the reason why we're talking about so much about set pace and not where set plays rather and it's not here in open play we can't see the potency because there is no outlet for Miku which brings to the question why they haven't been able to replace someone like a Miku at the start of the season even if you say Brown has been brought in for that role he's come in halfway through the season that means he was not a part of your plans at the start of the season or you're not chasing him at the start of the season it's a stop cap solution maybe look like yeah you need just a little bit more maybe not a Miku level replacement but something to add a little bit of I don't know like a little bit of finisher's touch or jobi air jobi up to get goals from open play like you're saying just be in that right position where you stick a leg there and you know but before I just want to say I'm quite enjoying the set piece action like mazara delivery of balls is good I think overall the physicality of players is getting better and the way some of these goals are being worked it's good to watch like Indian clubs Indian teams executing like high quality set pieces and clearly it means that the training intensity is also going up quite a bit yeah yeah depending on where you get a free kick who will take it and what will be the end result different scenarios are working yes I've got me calm chalvais but we I think I try all and if you look at how the national team also India at least the men's team how where goals will come even there I think set pieces are extremely important to how you know given how we play and how few chances we're likely to get from open play also given the fact that ashik and odanta these boys are quick so there are chances that they'll get fouls and they'll pick up those fouls in the final third so from that point of view I'm really enjoying this set piece business that's going on ready by a word on nishu kumar I mean I feel the the boy has grown a level this season you can see the way he's wanting the ball the way he's moving with the ball the speed of the ball how he's going up and down are you also getting the same feeling while watching him on the ground yes I think he's doing really great I think he has improved a lot the consistency he's showing every match and not only defending but going up front taking a shot so those are the changes we have seen the much more confident player we have seen in nishu kumar so I'm really happy to see a left side back doing this one one very quickly and from a coach's perspective say you're preparing for a game versus bfc and you have someone like a demas delgado calling the shots in the middle now while demas delgado on the ball comes across as a very accomplished player he looks very composed calm knows when to pick a pass has a good delivery on the set piece but would you say there is one weakness there he has the short temper so if I am the opposition player I will tell my player go he will continue to match yeah I mean the good place as well you know good place they don't want they don't like but then again if I have to play against banglaro it's so easy like we have been talking about we have to concentrate 100 percent we can't afford to switch off for a single second on the set place and we and defensively if we can work on set plays yesterday if the players from orisa if they were not switched off for that second they could have win the they could have won the game yesterday they switch off for for the sake for two times twice and they've killed the game otherwise they got chances on the set plays attacking wise they couldn't take it even defending wise they switch off so so the whole game they have switched off with few seconds that's the that's the only reason they have lost otherwise orisa are a good side guys I'm just first I'm just moving on now and I'm getting back to that entire miku topic and why you've not been able to replace someone like a miku and one of the reasons I feel why you've not been able to replace someone of that quality which is possibly one of the finest strikers to have ever come and played in this country sure and also one of the highest paid strikers to have ever played in the country is I think you're cutting down budgets a bit 70 to 80 cr for one season and I didn't buy and I that that budget was a little more as well so up from that point of view where you're spending 70 to 80 cr in a climate called Indian football do you see it as worth it in terms of return in in terms of return it's a difficult one yes I can totally understand I can totally understand but in terms of players I think that players would get more money and I want players to get more money sustainable which is what we are talking about it has to be sustainable otherwise in a longer run I don't know how many how many people investor are going to pay that amount of money so we we have to have a clear plan so that it can be sustainable but spending that amount of money and but without any return my whole question is how many years they're going to spend that money my point is a very simple one okay see if you win a league then how much do you get 8 crore 8 crore to win the league 4 crore to be a runner-up right losing finalist right because also that this there's a playoff system not so actually the league winner doesn't get no not at the end if you win the season the trophy the trophy if you're here then you get 8 crore on top of that they have a sponsorship deal which is a four-year deal worth 7 million so that comes to around 10 crore per year right on top of that you of course got other expenses as well and then that tiff with Kanthirva is pretty well documented where they were always moving to Pune they're spending close to 8 to 9 crore to one for one match day so that's 10 home games 8 to 9 lakh sorry 8 to 9 lakh for one match day at home that's about 80 90 lakh that is being shown now under the table or kya kya nahi oga mere kyaal se usse zada yoga we know how things work in this country uske upat match day expenses aapka 15 lakh per match day aaraya right 15 lakh per match day aaraya to matla aapka uska kharcha aaraya around 1.5 cr which means you're spending close to 4 crore on just 10 home games then on top of that you're saying you have karod pati players in the league where where is you don't think this is all of this is very inflated you don't think this bubble is going to burst one day mere saab se sir aapka player ka value kis kis factors pe batta hai talent is one of them but that is not the only only value right yeah bilkul 100 percent no value also is yeah so essentially this value that we're speaking of is sort of like a construct it's a it's a creation of various things like you're saying yeah one is what is perhaps the real value of a player in a team in order to make that team achieve its goals on the pitch agree which is to win yeah right but then there's so many other factors that come into it uh celibility marketability that's my point how much how much of this so yeah so just going back to your original point about miku and him being one of the best players to have ever played professionally in this country you look at where he went from here or where all he's played automatically it's a cut above right uh like ammonia nicocia is first division club in cyprus and you know heiningberg of manchester united is managing that club uh for example so yeah a guy like miku eduga sia all these guys also for them the professional motivation to remain in the league one of the reasons why they come from europe to india some of these players is because the money is better for you yeah you're the star player in the team so you're getting paid accordingly yeah right but the point is that spread is not happening and then you can add a lot of actual data on this that on the one hand you have a lot of players but um and i think expenses that clubs incur will only go up because after all agreed the idea is like me who have some incentive some challenge some competition right by player motivation no no that year their budget was close to about 10 cr now you've come into the isl and you won the isl last season and they've been doing really well okay let's not take anything away six season six trophies so six and six is what they're saying and now that budget is close to about 70 80 cr i don't understand i mean what is the motivation to put in that kind of money year in year on your part of a team how do you justify asking for that kind of a budget that's my point i think when you do well and if you want to keep the same team the the owner have to spend a lot it's as easy as that if you don't spend that amount of money players will go away and then it will take another three four years to build up that squad yeah so around the world if you see Chelsea anyone even Chelsea looking for a for a for a for a best striker in a in a big big price so if you want to get Miku a type of player who can play like Miku we have to spend quite a lot a lot more than what they are spending right now so if you want to win look at north east spending a half of that amount there they are nowhere to be seen so if you look at 80k if you look at uh uh go out they have spent quite a lot but they are getting the result so to get the best strikers who can put uh inside the net day in day out i think you have to spend a lot sustainable this will go on and on you know i don't know if it's sustainable it will go for long but currently if you want to get one to win the match if you want to win the lead in the case of replacing people i don't know how it's all just guesswork idea but okay you can't keep spending that much more right the bean counters are like what's going on exactly you know what are we spending this money on fair enough so and you have to therefore adjust and maybe Bangalore is one of the clubs that's taking a long-term view on this that instead of spending so much as a percentage on one player even though that player might be like top you spread it out over two three four five guys young guys ashi kurunian indian players like you're saying the all these four five guys who are all playing for the national team right and because you're playing for the national team they are among the higher paid indian players also in the system so long-term view say fan engagement chaya vo le lo national team me up a good representation a vo le lo and also competitiveness right so obviously you can't do away with it i feel i'm sorry to interrupt but i feel bangalore is one of the very organized club and they are not paying to the indian players as much as goa playing or goa paying or any other club atk is paying so there are many indians in atk who are who are very highly you know who are very well paid so in i don't think in in bangalore players are getting that much if you ask udanta i don't think he's getting as much as what the other players are getting in different clubs so that way bangalore are very very organized and they are very smart but rendi bhai that that's my point that's the scary part that's the scary part how long it will be okay it might go up to 19 crore right so i mean if 19 crore plus 10 crore pay up with kia sponsorship right so that's 29 crore 29 crore and then what else you getting a few more here and there 30 crore yeah no i'm sure they have they have quiet i'm sure they have a few partnerships and whatever they're getting let's say let's say one third are you existing right right football and football is a kind of complex market because because just the majority of the market here and the outside market is not even, except that it's all features around ball, 420 grams, other than that there's literally no commonality. It's like two different sports happening on two different planets. So completely forgotten where we started off from, at least once in every show. Sir, 80 crore people are going there. No, sorry, they're here. Yes, welcome back. Welcome back. Sorry, you know how it is. So the guys who are spending this, let's say, you've taken out 30 out of 80, 50. 50. But the company that is going to spend 50,000 is also 50,000, right? Okay. So this has to have some relevance to the conversation, right? They are doing it as a, what purposes could JSW have to run a football team, an interest in football, to create some sort of, I don't know, engagement with their brand. Otherwise, how do people connect with a steel company? You can't, right? It's not, you and I don't go to the shop and buy steel. Tax rates are also nothing. It's only 10% of where we're spending. Yeah, it's a small part of it. Yeah. 10% is it? If they're creating, then it's another avenue for them to create employment, to build their own sort of corporate family or whatever it is, right? And to, I mean, Paat Jindal is a young guy with a deep interest in sport, all kinds of sport. They own an IPL team. They have a facility for, what do you call it, Olympic athletes? Yeah, in Bellary. Yeah. These are smart ways to cut costs, right? Yeah. So, how are you going to Turkey? You're sitting at a resort there for two months, taking a team of 40 people, eating food every day. So, it's also cost-efficient, right? It's set up, right? Yeah, absolutely. But long-term, its benefits are also a crew over time, right? Yeah. Because you have that facility and when you're saying that they're declaring, let's say 80 crores of expenses. 65 crores. 65 crores of whatever. I think 60. I think 60. 100 rupees. They're declaring. Those 100 rupees, the expenses that go into those facilities, that also counts, right? It's also a part of the overall thing. So, and I think the hope for them will be that eventually they'll have homegrown players who can, like who they don't have to trade from other clubs, who they can then use as the fulcrum of their team going forward, I think. This is right. Randy, since Annie has brought up players, and we know of course who the top level of players are and how much they're earning and who are these players. But then if you come down a level, what is the average amount a player is earning on an annual basis? I don't exactly know about it, but I know that they're not spending that much. Like they're very, very smart. They are paying the right players. That's why I said they have such an organized club. So there are a lot of young players coming up from the reserve and the academy system also. So it's like 80-90 lakhs. How many players are around about? There are players on 40, 50-60 bracket. There are many players who are 40 or say 50-60. And in your time, what was the average amount of players in that bracket? 40-45 was a good place getting, and then it went up to So for many many years, and it went up to 70-20, I think it was in the beginning. We started with 4.5 lakhs, so you can imagine. And then in 12 lakhs, we stayed for 4-5 years. See you in eternity. Guys, anything else you want to add in this man? I just think this conversation is far from over. I just think this conversation, maybe you can have this conversation 10 years now. 10 years since the league started. No, we can have this conversation I think at different levels because there are all kinds of football clubs also which we have to remember. Bangalore FC, if you are talking about the top football club currently in the entire country, right? Renédy is also running a football club. The structure of that club today might be an academy structure. But eventually he will put teams, or eventually he is already putting teams into the local leagues in the third division. What is their plan? I think it will be that you will give these players the third division, third division, second division. And eventually they will be ready to play at the highest division, whatever they can. So how do those clubs survive? Like Renédy was saying just a little while ago, that you are giving one player to India player for 100 rupees. Okay? Okay, he is the best Indian player in that position at today's date. But below that, at least I would say there will be 100 other players, who will play in different professional clubs from the academy. Who are at least half as good as that player. Are you giving them 50 lakhs? No, you are not. Or 50 rupees? No, you are not. No, you are not. How will this wider system be sustained? For me that is the bigger issue rather than how these top level clubs, because also bro... Sir, when there is such a big divide form, there are more chances of crashing. Yes, but they will crash. So I am saying that the top earners will have to come down. Is it not that they will become 50 lakhs or 70 lakhs? No, unfortunately. I ask René dee this question about what will happen, when East Bengal and Mohan Bagan are both playing in the ISL. 40-50 players have lost their jobs. Where will that player play? No, East Bengal will have their entire squad. They are both in the ISL. In the I-League, the two biggest clubs have left the I-League. Who will replace them? No, two new clubs will come up. But where will they come from? From the second division, bro. Right, but they will not have the capacity to spend. They will not have the spending power. Obviously, East Bengal and Mohan Bagan will not be there. Yeah, agreed. So where will these players who today are earning a decent wage, like we are talking about, where do they go? So these are the larger questions, that is why this conversation should actually go in, or could go in multiple directions. Final words before we say goodbye? René dee bhai? I don't think so, bhai. By the way, let's do this while we go. The players here are very good. But the people who talk about football, should be a little surprised. What did we do wrong, bhai? Yes, we did. Think about it. Before you open your mouth, think about it. Before you open your mouth. Also, guys, just as a reminder to everyone who is tuning in for this episode of 420 Grams, we've taken it upon ourselves and now we're going to be talking a lot more about the ISL, right? And teams playing in the ISL. If today we did BFC, then tomorrow we might do an ATK or an FC Goa and so on and so forth. So do keep tuning into our episodes every week. One episode around Indian football, every week on newsclicker.in. René dee Singh, thank you so much for joining us on the show, taking our time as well. And bhai, looking as sexy as always. So I think I have killed it with my pink pocket square. Thank you so much for watching. Goodbye.