 All right, I'm gonna call the meeting to order this roll call. Yes, Alison Gould here, Tom Duster Peter Scott Holwick here Roger Lane here in Houston here West Fowlery here Jason Elkins here hope Bartlett here And Here and we have council member Martin with us here and guests Scott Greenling with the same thing in the left-hand water conservancy And we have John All right, okay very good Next approval previous months minutes are there any questions or columns about last month's Meeting Sure, I moved it for the last month's Water staffs report The fault of the same brain at Lyons today with 17 CFS With a hundred twenty-five year historic average of 22 CFS Call the same brain Creek is Pleasant Valley Reservoir admin 7,822 with a priority date of June 1st 1871 Call the main stem of the South Platte River is Riverside canal admin number 21031 with a priority date of August 1st 1907 A real price reservoir at Button Rock is at an elevation of 6,398.86 feet 15,946 acre feet So we're down approximately 250 acre feet Any reservoirs at an elevation of twenty six point one feet 11,387 acre feet down approximately 1,300 acre feet In that reservoirs you're releasing Five and a half CFS. I don't ever first the same rating Creek basin storage was in 68% And I think that's all I have How long Years So it's actually probably pretty pretty high The five-year average But I'm if you look at a longer term average, maybe a 40-year average. It's Pretty close The goal is always to not have to start releasing to November 1st And so we're releasing we're passing the river plus releasing out of storage That means in our winter demands have stayed pretty consistent for the last 20 years so That's exactly where we wanted to be full on the river first and starting to spill or starting to release out of storage So Well, I think what you're asking is so we have to pass the river Whatever it is, whatever our accounting tells us the demand that the plan is taking That is the amount you have to take out of storage. So in other words, I think we've got if I so in other words We've got 17 CFS going out About 12 CFS is coming in about five CFS is going out of storage So I guess another way would be saying Gotcha So that but the at Lions you have the Contribution of the salsing and it just so happens the salsing rate is probably yielding about five CFS so it just happens to be that The five CFS that the South is doing uses purple to look at water treatment plants are taking so even though we're taking more Water and lawnmower reservoir, but the plants don't use it returns back to the Saint Marine Creek and it joins back up with the South St. Marine Before it gets recorded in lines. So it's somewhat coincidental CWCB Thanks I'm going to be talking to you today about the same bread and less and water conservancy districts pilot water modification program, so thank you very much for having me I'm a water resource engineer of the district Just been been there about year and a half a little bit over I'll be going through some High-level physics of cloud seeding and weather modification. I'll be using the term clouds even weather modification fairly interchangeable Talk about how the program Optically operates go over some common questions that folks have Highlight some other programs in Colorado and then focusing on our program at the district Yes Thank you Oh This is what we all learning kindergarten probably Snow comes from frozen water in clouds ice crystals congregate and form snowfall or snowflakes that get bigger And we have to actually fall this snow the first point there Water freezing is something I want to dig into a little bit more because as it turns out water doesn't really like to freeze It's an endo thermic process. It takes energy to make water freeze And so that means water can exist in liquid form below freezing temperatures. It's all familiar with this I'm sure lakes frozen lakes have super cool Sub-freezing water below the below the ice the same thing happens in the cloud at winter storms a water Water molecules can exist in liquid form at temperatures as low as negative 15 degrees Celsius one way to speed the process of freezing and subsequent snowflake formation is to add a seeding agent or a Nuculation agent so that it could be a number of things. There's dust particles in pollen naturally occurring ones pollution and smog can contribute Coincidental Nuculating agents and then we can also have intentional seeding agents. And that's what we're talking about today with crime scene We use Silver iodide as a cloud seeding agent It's a very small molecule and it's similar to water molecules similar molecular structure And it also has a similar polarity to water molecules So it functions really well and what it does is it makes it speeds up that freezing process it allows sites for water molecules to freeze onto and Also allows the temperature of which freezing and snowflake formation Can it allows it so much snowflake formation that happened at a higher temperature that I might otherwise basically so What that looks like in operation is silver iodide can be added to winter winter storms winter clouds either through planes or through ground-mounted generators There are a few programs or at least one program in Colorado that uses planes ours won't ours will use ground-mounted generators And they use they burn propane to shoot silver iodide up into clouds They rely on the Horographic effects so up slope conditions essentially where the mountains cause the air to be pushed up high in the atmosphere and they have that wind that Eric Helps the silver iodide Mix up into the clouds really well and increase the snowfall that would otherwise not occur this is a Little example of a generator our generators will be mounted on trailers This is just shows kind of the basic elements. You see the propane tanks its silver iodide is mixed in with acetone acetone rather and the tank and then there's It burner there these generators are remotely operated So there's cellular telemetry that allows them to be controlled from a desktop a couple questions that And talking about this I have seen this come up over and over again So we'll go from one by one that first one is does cloud seeding really work and it's a good question because With cloud seeding you're adding These very small particles across a wide range Whole waters in our case and it's hard to tell how much additional snow actually fell because of that process There are a lot of studies in the process has been used in Colorado specifically since the 70s So it's a commonly used process. There's a lot of work that has been done looking at basins that have been seen Seated versus basins that haven't been seated and comparing the resulting snowpacking runoff from those two that Indicate that cloud seeding can produce between five and ten maybe even 12 percent additional runoff from From the actual seeding drop a whole season There are is now some What some radar images that show clouds that have been seated actually having greater Precipitation in clouds that have been seen So the technology is starting to catch up to show what many cloud seeding operators have Known intuitively that the process does work Um, it is still hard to measure exactly how much snow we are producing That this next question. So if it does work, then are you taking water or snow from one area? um and You know if if a storm is coming through and you're pulling extra snow from it Would that snow have eventually fallen somewhere else? And are you since the robbing pier that they call are you taking in our case? Maybe snow that might have fallen on the west slope of color on our way from them And the reality is the amount of precipitation that falls in a winter storm Is only about 10 percent of the total moisture in the clouds I would see any increases still fall by about 1 percent of that 10 percent So or 10 percent of that 10 percent only 1 percent total. So there's still 89 percent of the moisture left in our cloud to produce snow downwind so the The thought is you are taking a little bit of water out of the clouds, but In the context of how much water is available. It's really a drop in the bucket And then there's certainly some concern or some thought about you know, this the notion of agnechemical into nature Is it safe? and There's a couple one that the chemical itself is silver and iodide when it when it enters in the The environment it denatures into elemental silver and iodine iodine is something that we use on our skin. It's naturally occurring in nature And it's relatively inert silver is also very inert doesn't really travel very far once it melts into the soil it just it's combined with the soil and is Undetectable based on background soil levels silver levels in the soil. We've got a lot of silver in our area too and so The the concentrations that we are adding into the watershed are so so tiny if you consider Dispersing about two pounds of silver iodide across the whole watershed on it's really a The only way you can detect any augmentation any any measurable amounts of silver is in the freshly fallen snow with really advanced mass spectrometers, so It's really hard to detect it right away and then as soon as that snow melts it's below the background levels that occur So we're at the district at least are are convinced that it is a safe process and We're also convinced that it works and we're excited to see What we can make happen. Yes What about the carbon footprint? That's a great question Burning cocaine. Yeah, so there is a carbon footprint associated with it. I don't know any any idea of the scale and it was like 25 vehicle miles traveled for a camera for a camera. I don't know this the details They aren't super large. It's not a not a huge amount of cocaine that's in good throughout the year And one thing I should have mentioned with that talking about operations We're only going to see winter storms that have the right conditions for us So it's not like we're going to be operating this card shooting all the time It's only when there's the right storm coming through that will be turning the units on and you know storms will only last for Less than a day or a day or something like that. So you're like burning cocaine for a day and they're like Yeah, how many cubic feet of cocaine that is you know, I don't know yet to be honest with you But that's a great question and that's something I think would be Helpful information for us to think about moving forward. Is there a way that we want to offset that carbon footprint somehow? It's just to be recognizing that we I'm not the only person who's ever going to ask that question. Exactly. Yeah, I think it's a good thing to be considering for sure And thank you for interrupting me. Please stop me with any other questions you guys have happy to Answer them as we go Yes So if this is kind of a long-term plan and maybe it's not detectable after a year at what point Do we like also a great question? So that notion of if we're doing this over 40 years Eventually accumulate in the environment to be detectable and I don't know the answer to that exactly Um There have the this this map here shows programs that have been operating in colorado Many of these programs. I think the first program was started in veiled back in the 70s um, I don't know if they're starting to see you know over that course of 40 50 years that they're starting to see any accumulation. Um But that's something that I think we wanted thinking about Looking forward and working to To be taking Good measurement data now and I prepare it as we progress with the program Yeah, thank you So, yeah, this this map shows the programs in colorado. There are seven permitted programs in colorado ours is the eighth You might notice from this map all of the permits are on the west slope So our program is the first one on the front range There are between a hundred and two hundred different Generators involved in all these programs. That's all those little green dots up there So you can see they're scattered kind of throughout the states but all on the west slope We've been in conversation with the colorado conservation board about starting a program in our area and the size of our basin makes it a good candidate to To pilot this program and to see kind of what the level of interest is and to see what My questions come up to see how effective we are at Seeding clouds that are moving from the east to the west So Our program will consist of two remotely operated generators You can see them located up there in all zoom in on those two sites in a little bit We're estimating with these two generators maybe a thousand to 4,000 acre foot increase in runoff And we're contracting with the north american weather consultant groups. They're based out of salt lake city They operate the program in gunison and I believe one over in the grand lake area as well they've been Seeding they've been doing weather modification for many many years. I believe they have like 40 years of experience So those two sites one is located on the same range of fighting now. So that's a northern water property just East of lions. It's the lions crack crack trash crack locations. You guys don't know what that is all And the other so super thankful to northern as well as a highland this company They're allowing us to use their property at no cost Highland this company we're going to is agreed to let us locate a generator at foot health restaurant These two locations are kind of right at the foothills and we'll hopefully the the thought is that they as They as storms come from the east to the west When hits those mountains and really start takes that work the photographic effect really drives the winds up into the atmosphere and so they don't Seeding at these two locations will allow for good dispersion of the silver eye and into the atmosphere So these generators are only from storms that come from east to the west. Yeah, that's what we're targeting with this program Is there any thought to put generators further to the west so that because Not a meteorologist, but those aren't those storms will happen very frequently. Yeah, exactly. So Yes, and yes I'll go through a couple examples of storms and I'll circle back So this is a A model that simulates There's built to simulate an inclusion distribution, but it's can be used to simulate subriot egg distribution based on several storms And these are past storms. So, you know each storm is going to be slightly But these are the type of storms that we would look to see and you can get a sense for what the distribution of the housing agent would be over the basin and different storm conditions will lead to different Basically different areas where we will impact And so that will determine what storms we choose to see and what storms we don't choose to see This also is planting the seed for future expansion of this program Looking at if we had generators located different locations And you could capture you could see some areas depending on the storm And if our target area is the same gray basin if we have generators located further to the north or further to the south And we would have more opportunities to see storms that would impact us And with our existing generators, we'd also have the potential to see other areas if there's other partners or Are interested in joining us in the future. So I'll just go through You can see some of the stronger winds can really Make a very large impacted area the intensity of the impact might be smaller It's kind of I like these pictures But you can see, you know, this is probably a storm that we wouldn't see but From that location the opportunity to see a large area is certainly a fun circular storm there And suddenly stormed seed on the west side of the divide And so there's talk about partnering with the existing program on the western side of the divide to share our generators And to Jason's point I'm potentially installing generators closer to the divide that we could that both programs get used so if Storms are coming from west to east we could benefit from them that's from the coming from east west They could benefit from them and so we could reduce our operating costs by sharing that same unit So this is the type of storm that would have Lots of impact all across the divide So the timeline for this program we just got our permit awarded on November 15th And we are planning to install equipment next week And begin operations in summer Once operation is complete in april We'll get a report for how much That stormed up receded and expectation or Estimation of how much additional runoff was created and snowpacking runoff was created from from the operations Part of how that is calculated is using sites that are so these are all the yellow dots Sorry, the yellow boxes up there are snow tail sites So there are control sites and there are target sites This is an example on the venison program And lettered sites or the control sites and the numbered sites up there are the target sites So seeding operation happened around the the target sites And storms that came through There was a snowfall from those storms was compared from the two locations To determine what the difference was on the impact from the operation As you can imagine, this isn't the most perfect method It's kind of hard to do a controlled study when You want to see the entire basin because a storm is going to impact that basin Because it's slightly differently from the basin next to it On one of the tools that i'm really excited about that i'll talk about a little bit later Is the airborne and snow observation points Using light plain mounted lidar to collect snowpack data And there is potential to use data that's going to be flown over the northern front range to see Just to see if there's any difference that we can detect using that method from Our area of interest versus adjacent areas as well So the cost for this program The operational costs are just under $50,000 and the district is contributing 43 of that the left-hand ditch company Is actually shipping in $6,000 that's we're really thankful to them And then the cwcb is going to be purchasing the equipment So they will be the owners of the generators and that those costs are just under $9,000 So total costs are just under $140,000 for operating two generators As we evaluate the program if it works well and if there's opportunity to expand the generators The number of generators in the future Then you know operation costs would likely increase moving forward So we would certainly Invite the district or sorry the city To consider joining us in this effort moving forward as you guys are putting your budget together Happy to have more detailed conversations about what we estimate that might look like But we could see full program build-out at five generators total So relocated on this side of the vibe and two located on the other side of the vibe And then kind of correspond to operation costs I think chunk of the operation costs are for The staff for meteorologists to be evaluating storms. And so there's some kind of scale that As you add more generators, you know, that's sort of costing the operation costs I'm just going to increase that a little bit And the permit area so the permit is actually held by our consultant, the American Water Consultants And when they applied for the permit they decided to make to ask for The option to expand From Merrick Mark County all the way down to Teller County And so there's actually quite a large area that this program could expand into The target area is the same rate And so we're going to be starting with the same rate But it allows us a lot of flexibility moving forward as we have conversations With folks throughout our basin as well as at Jason Payson's if there's interest in seating North and south of us we can do that with the existing permit that we have We don't have to go get a new permit versus Something I'm really excited about. I'm really curious to see how this involves moving forward and grows. I think Northern Water is certainly interested in what we're doing and We're curious to see what level of interest the City Board of Folks may have How long is that permit now? It's a five-year permit So we've got kind of five years to see what we can do figure out how it works in our area and And quickly to circle back to those airborne snow observatory flights I don't know if you guys are familiar with this or not if you've seen this It's a newer technology. It was developed in the NASA propulsion lab and over the past maybe five or ten years is spun off its own company to actually operationalize the technology and it started to Grow in an interest over Colorado on throughout Colorado over the past two to five years So last year there was a large push and a large Colorado water playing grant through the Colorado water conservation board to collect snow Free data over a large sum to the state that didn't have so free data So the way that this technology works is There's an initial flight that captures the ground elevation And then you can you can fly subsequent snow flights So when there's is it snow on the ground and then you can take the elevation of the snowpack and subtract it from the elevation Trains to determine snow depth and that is coupled with existing Snowtel sites as well as snow courses determine snow water equivalent from those flights There's typically two flights that occur one in April at Capture peak snowpack in one in May to capture runoff and especially like high elevation snowpack and much remaining There's really really cool case studies Denver water used this technology. They clue the Blue River basin above Dillonis war in a year that snowtel sites were showing that there really wasn't a lot of snowpack left on the everyone's notes observation flights um Indicated that there was still a lot of snowpack remaining up high in the basin And so they were allowed they changed their operations instead of Holding water back in Dillon. They were able to make additional releases to create room for the snow And we're able to get a lot more efficiency on versus in that year The converse is also true There's been some some areas where the snowtel data is showing that there's still decent snowpack And then the flights show that there's actually a lot less snowpack remaining in the basin And so you can operate your systems differently projecting lower water supplies One of the key things that this data provides is really that higher elevation of snow data snowtel sites are typically 10,000 feet about And you know snowpack exists all the way up to 14,000 feet in some of our basins, so It's we don't know a lot about how snow accumulates in some of those upper areas and it really do but this provides a really high resolution. It's 30 by 30 meters spatial distance and it gets like half centimeter vertical accuracy so really High Highly precise data on a very discrete spatial scale this project is also The future funding of this the state is looking the color of water conservation or is looking at taking over The financial burden of this moving forward the process that that might the the pace that that might happen at is Maybe not fast enough to make sure that we are consistently in the place that we want the Northern front range so that kind of that light blue chunk up there on the map Um From clear creek basin all the way through the pooter is being funded the fights this year this upcoming year 123 fights Really a cool story of folks all across the northern front range northern water conservancy district Greeley for Collins Boulder golden Thornton Westminster, I think have all contributed funding for to make sure those fights happen and that funding was leveraged against the WSRF grant to the sub five base around table To ensure that we can get our fights our snow snow on flights this year. So we're really excited about that thinking now into 2024 On the Colorado water conservation board. It looks like they're going to approve a larger water projects or projects bill But so they'll be they'll be adding more Money towards this program, but it's not quite enough to cover all of the five costs So it's looking like in order to ensure that we have fights in 2024 We will need to raise money Another thing for the city to consider in their budget moving forward is Is this data something that might be a value and is there some contribution? I'm happy to talk to the details That's all I have for you today. Thank you very much for letting me come talk to you about this stuff and Happy to answer any questions right now Scott, I've got one. Yeah, if you're looking for partners funding partners Obviously the results of what you're doing would be important to them. Yes, so when do you anticipate Some information coming out on how successful or not successful this program That's a great question So we are anticipating a report from the wet amount of patient program in june timeframe Um, I think we'll have some anecdotal sense of how often we seeded and what storms Were favorable or not then kind of how long and maybe some rough estimates from the from that from our consultant But the final report will be available and so that's Any other questions for Scott? Yeah, I have a question Yes Yeah, so, um, can you tell us a little bit more about the kind of remote generators? I mean, I'm kind of like anticipating You mentioned some combustible materials, you know, propane and things like that to be used Are there open flames? Are there heat sources? For example So are you at all concerned about operating those things remotely given the circumstances that we all find ourselves in? Of course these days with kind of the Lewisville fire of course Freshly in our minds perhaps Thank you. That's a great question. I know that remote generators and even manual generators have been used extensively throughout the state I'm not aware of any issues with those But I do think that is Really pertinent question and one I think the Marshall fire has opened up all of our eyes to the really The damage that something going right can cause and so certainly I'm thinking the design of the Generators that will have will be trailer mounted and so I think they're fairly contained. So I don't anticipate anything being You know, I think they're From what I understand, I'm curious actually to see see the south because I haven't seen the exact setup yet But I'm I'm thinking they're going to be pretty safe, but that's something that will be keeping an eye on for sure Yeah, I mean I have a you know as a humble suggestion, right? Just from a liability perspective you you may want to have a kind of the safe safety management process in place where my um, you at the very least have Points of contact them and some type of also remote system that that monitors for any kind of Fired Yeah So that you know at least you got across your keys and out of your eyes Thank you. I really appreciate that Other questions Scott, thanks for your time. Yeah, thank you very much. All right Yeah Development activity If I had my way it would be a one or two minutes But you can do it in two, right? We're not gonna work in more than that I can do my best Sounds good I just wanted if I get in You know just real quickly One of the things We've come before to talk about our update to our water efficiency master plan Kind of the focus of what we're trying to do today is in the water Council draft council communication We include in the bank or some specific programs that we Are open water water to take a quick look at and what we're really asking We're not making any decisions today on what we will or won't have in our updated water efficiency master plan. It's really process We want the process to determine that as we go through it including input from the public and orders in the council and pretty robust input process But Some of the specific programs what we're asking for is do you agree? we're proposing a few programs that we would expressly evaluate And come back with a recommendation So that's really what we're asking today is are you okay with us? Including that in the evaluation process And the decision whether to do it or not One one example is Our paralyze In all the years I've been doing this that I get more input on and people see more and is what you see when you write it down That and everybody has an opinion on that So do we want to study that or I'm gonna come back It's gonna give you kind of a rundown and where we are right now with the update Why and Let's take it. Thank you. Thank you So we have We're on the schedule to meet at a council study session in december on December 14 Where we'll present our council communications So we wanted to get you all to be back before we go to council So that we can have either your support and or comments on the on the five main projects of programs that we're proposing to study in our update So first and foremost We would like to know if you approve in moving in the direction of creating more aggressive water conservation goals Driven by climate change data So currently our our goal is a 10 percent reduction of our 20 48 projected build-out demand We believe that we're already meeting this and that we do this on average. And so we're proposing an increase Goal Water use has an increase. Yes increase in goal reduction Yes Yeah, so an example might be moving to a 15 to 20 percent reduction May I ask you The 10 percent was reached over what period of time and the idea 20 to point b that we got the 10 percent I don't think we really have So the short answer is from when we set that goal in 2003 to today I'll say about 20 year period we In the past 20 years we believe we Approximately that 10 percent Water conservation So to put it in and numbers Our projected use for in 2048 is 35,000 At our projected demand build-out use We say that we should reduce that projected demand by 10 percent to be Less than that and we believe that we're already Projected to not need that 35 Am I saying it the right way that that's exactly if if our For men continues to build out We've already realized we've already realized the lowered demand Today, we would have 3,500 acre feet more demand than Have we not had a water conservation program? It's right Again is over a 20 year period So The question would be so if you want another 5 percent Yeah, I would assume you'd look at a time period That uh is coincident with that I mean You're looking at five over 10 years five over 20 years or You see what I'm asking Five over build-out It's all 2048 which is that I know what I'm supposed to say like for the year when it's supposed to go down But that's where I bet your right question I'm going to ask I really can because I Have nagged this before but um We have made changes in the land use code and are contributing more changes in the land use code all of which You know greater population density than we have before which in turn would lead a to a larger population um Over the years so the population in 2048 Is not the same as the populace the projected population in 2003 So my question is to do you change the population? projections So no leave we've left our last The future water demand evaluation was based upon vision long long And the build-out at about 120,000 population And the 10% savings will do that if if We increase density And obviously that will increase But we have increased density already We have yes from the 2003 That time it was the long Yeah, and we have not that that is not in our future water Yeah Okay, so question number two is what does it take because the last time you and I talked about it and the last time I talked Harold about it The answer I got was I think we'll just take care of it. You don't need counsel to act Does counsel need to act do you need explicit that? explicit direction To change the number the project to do different populations that build out no, we um We don't we would need We try to follow the comprehensive planning process And and to be honest, I I know the planning department Has told us they're in the process of amending that And whatever that amends to them will come in and change that We also can look at Almost any Scenario You know, we don't have to we can give a scenario behind me as well Right and and that's my question because it seems to me that the planners need to be informed By and anticipated water supply In terms of what they decide to do So we're getting some chicken and egg thing going on here that I would rather not have Any questions? It is I you know I did just a thought to marches play I would I thought it would be that we would reach goals some type of a goal based on a Thousand people from 10,000 to you know, and then however the population goes We have a number that we're driving towards a usage number Another 10,000 that we didn't expect Let that drive it If you understand what I'm saying, um, I understand what you're saying, but it seems like a very, uh That was county harkery kind of an approach in the sense that You're taking a pretty big risk of coming up short if you do it that way whereas you can We can't control the population But we can control other things like permits if you Yeah, uh, how much change we make to the land use code We may have to say stop That you know We may need to increase our capacity to buy the water again So If if we if we had a target number that we're shooting for it just seems it seems like You know, which what how many controls you would need to apply As opposed to letting the population swim freely And then do what are you saying? I'm not saying freely. I'm just saying You'll plan for a certain population. Yeah, we'll just use word build out Yeah, and I think a lot of things derived around a build out And to me That's where I would come from. You know Where we tired to build out Other things you blow from that as far as Whatever well, but that's what I'm saying. We're already changing the build out target. It's just not being acknowledged in this process Allison jump in here It's not a great moment, but um, maybe it'll help Um, it seems to me like a lot of what we're discussing is the water definition means a conservation And when I look at this this water efficiency master plan It's called a water efficiency master plan for us as a subtitle of conservation to me those are some different concepts And I think that they have different inclusive goals And so I guess I would suggest that we first before because I think it's all we're saying here is we Figure out and come to a common understanding of what we mean in the first place before we turn about the targets Because while I think water conservation is great if water conservation is It's not a sort of efficiency as I understand it. I'm not sure I'm super just about that But my definition might be totally wildly different from yours. So I guess I would suggest that we really Define these terms before we start trying to come up with the numbers of personages you want to tap onto Yes Yeah, that's great And and just to reiterate these are ideas that we're asking maybe we should study So we're not saying like hey, we're gonna sign this do you guys approve? We're saying like hey, we're gonna ask our consultant that we hire to see if this makes sense And they're gonna work with our planning department and say hey, what's other time to go out does this make sense? They're gonna coordinate all of these things but I do Think that there's tremendous value in figuring out Defining those things Thomas I saw your hand up Yeah, I have a I have a question for hope actually. Um, so it's not so much a question. Maybe just like a I just kind of want to point out like a little bit of a distinction I guess so I mean from this point forward I feel like we have a lot of opportunity to kind of manage Water use in the growth that comes in the future, right? So so so that obviously we have a lot more kind of like pulled over, you know to be able to kind of You know manage that that growth and the water use that comes from that growth um using things like density and you know the Sizes of yards and all that kind of stuff that the things that I guess I'm kind of Seeing the opportunity within is The existing infrastructure. So I mean in your kind of list here. You've got things like Leak detection and repair And those types of things and I guess I'm just kind of curious about maybe your thoughts about kind of like That most of the opportunity in my in my view It seems like most of the opportunity to improve Efficiency into the future actually comes with from existing infrastructure relative to Something that we build in the future and so I wonder whether we already can have a little bit Like the answer in a way in in our In our hands because the things that we can improve the most already exist And so whether the the discussion about what the future holds Is maybe not as important as what we can do to improve efficiency in the infrastructure that exists today Sure, I see where you're coming from on this and You might be jumping ahead a little bit on one of our different points But one of the the one of the main things that's really important for staff that we study Is applying the growing water smart lines? And if you all remember this is the seminar that we Can and I attended earlier this year And basically it's just changing the way that we think about planning and developing our city with water efficiency I'm going to use them interchangeably, but they're not water efficiency lens in all new development And so that would require us to be more involved in the planning development planning process But also to make sure that the way that we move forward as a city is outlined sustainably So along those lines, we're going to be proposing that we Take a deeper dive into our code and our design standards and that we update our code and design standards So that all of our new development moving forward is water efficient that being said We want to get that in place first because we want to stop the bleeding right we want to fix the leak before we fix The water damage, right? So we want to make sure that we're developing Efficiently that's what we're going to be focused on on what I'm proposing that we focus on in this study um, and then after that Then we can go back and look at our existing infrastructure It's not an either or because our existing infrastructure is important. Obviously there's a leak we fix it, but If we don't address our future development and if we don't develop Efficiently then we're always going to be retrofitting which is not effective So it's more effective if we grow and focus on growing Sustainably from the start changing our codes and our design standards and our landscaping regulations those kinds of things before we do Like our turf replacement, right? Because right now we have at first. I live in a brand new development Everyone in my neighborhood is carrying our yards and we've been there less than two years Sounds stupid, right? Like we should not be putting in turf and now the city is paying to take out this turf So We're going to be focusing on kind of changing the way that we develop before we Go back to our existing structure on me and excludes are doing for sure. It's great But it's also like silly like why didn't we just do zero-saping in the front yards in christmas because we didn't have a Time site, right, right To buddy else advocate and I agree with you You're right. Stop the bleeding, right? I argue concurrency instead of linear No track and I know we don't have the resources to do the current right? We don't have the human resources to focus on but Also point out that if we have well over a hundred thousand in population now it's already developed It's already there the delta of growing out over a period of 30 more years Is relatively small. Absolutely from there to the existing Savings we could you know come up with with retrofishing retrofit any existing infrastructure Holder county learned this and drove us on the planning commission because we went out for new development And so we pointed out that you know try to make all the new houses Be more, you know energy efficient ignoring all the existing infrastructure that is completely energy inefficient The scales heavily tip towards what's already there that can be replaced in retrofit. Yeah, so That's my devil's advocate. Yes. I appreciate the yes and he absolutely will not stop what we're doing now and actually we're We're jumping around a lot, but that's okay That's that's not the door. Yeah Is continuing and or increasing the benefits that we already offer And focusing more on our overall communities. So We're not going to stop what we're already doing. In fact, we want to do more but And we learned this from the CWCB. So you might have heard that the they They just got a bunch of funding to do To fund more interpretive progress And one of the people at CWCB said I will fund in a heartbeat someone who has codes That's going to stop the landscaping Before I fund a brand new program that doesn't have their ducks in line So if we don't have our ducks in a row, like eventually we're not We're going to lose a lot of opportunities But March I think you want something Oh, I always have something We need to we we need to get this corrected to the state legislature because a lot of the bleeding is in And in open space Existing open space not open space with capital letters But non dwelling spaces in home orders associations And they are just lousy with turf and we can't stop them Yes Yes, that's a whole other bear. Yeah, but yeah Um, if you don't mind I'm working past my two minutes on Yeah, we're all we're interested in what you're saying and to be honest with you back to where you started I I need to fully understand. What are you asking of us? Yes, and that's Clowney right now, but anyway you yeah press on I'm asking no, this is good We're asking for feedback And we're asking for direction. So for you to say No, I don't think you should increase your conservation goal That's great. That's what you're asking for. Yes. I do think you should Yeah Yes, I love that. Um before I say yes or no the way I read it. I found the very inspirational That's my personal lens my personal So I guess what I would request especially when it comes to whatever Engineer modeler who are doing these they're going to apply some sort of algorithm models or whatever To the answers they're going to do, but if they're not knowing what I view as conservation or efficiency or reality That answer is not going to mean a lot Or it's going to tell me some things Not what I interpreted as so I guess my request would be a lot of this Really, really inspiring Yeah, for sure, but I'd love to have broken down by the council to make sure that they were understanding I'm working well the council does Know Okay But but The fact that we started Discussion about the definition of two words that were in the same phrase It seems to me that um in terms of Pruiting requirements on the consultants that what you'd like to do is define some metric points So just in this kind of unstructured discussion, we kind of talked about losses in the distribution system We can capture and all that whoop And then Delivery options You know stuff losses like Apparition from rates and golf courses and and from the Sprinter systems coming on at the wrong time of the day and You know that that kind of efficient use As opposed to efficient delivery And then the conservation piece is in per Catholic consumption Which we've been addressing For a long time by giving people More efficient toilets and shower hens and faucets and stuff And that I think is probably since we haven't addressed in the other stuff the earlier But the worry and useless efforts much yet Then then the You know the per Catholic consumption is what we've been doing a good job for As long as I've been paying any attention And before that because I you know Who lived here for 10 years and gotten Fossets in the mail, you know So you've been you've probably got a pretty high Penetration of high efficiency fixtures inside homes And and a lot of people used the the tune of your Sprinter system Future last summer or in the summer before so I can think without even thinking about it. I can think of through tiers of metrics and we could look for improvements At at each tier and then you need to figure out Depending on what target you expect to give How hard do you have to work on it? Okay. Okay So we touched a little bit on point two. Well, I guess does anybody have any like closing So we're asking if you approve In moving the direction of continuing and or increasing our benefits to vulnerable communities So we currently offer several programs Works and resource central We just started offering in qualified gardener loss discounts through resource central And then our partnership with efficiency works is a bit more money, but we're We're working on increasing those those benefits and Moving as much right to take as we can or for our community members To have access to rebates and discounts on Efficient projects programs fishes The vulnerable communities is that I'm talking about is defined by our sustainability current and they're working on as they're using they hired a consultant from to To identify the vulnerable parts of our community as far as Most affected disproportionately that climate change. So heat impact Income disparity Air quality So just members of our community that don't have access to the same Benefits So it could be anywhere between from income Vulnerability Living in a place where there's no trees to I can understand vulnerable members, but when you say communities describes to me an area that you can Focus on and I don't you know I'm not sure we understand That We do have those So My question is so I support that we continue to investigate that into my resources to that question My comment is that I want to know how we are actively Engaging with those communities versus passively offering to those Most types of resources Yeah, because we can make them available But those communities may not be the most Informed to have the most access to information. There's an active. There's an active element there So the city does have a program for reaching out to where they come We have an identity But when we do identify that now we need to That's just my comment they are reaching out An example we increased our garden in the box there's a certain mountain Subsidy we applied for a garden in the box first garden in the box is a very good deal But then we apply apply a subsidy to that to reduce that price even more and To slow participants to to that program We don't have to do it through water conservation that program We then Gave free And they're Partly because what it does is then for the income Members of that If they convert to land They know where there are so so it really really does help them And but it's a lot of work I get that too, but So that program is is really how We identify and actually get that information Yeah, I just think they comment because oftentimes I think That information isn't actively used doesn't get it's just we're offering it and gosh why isn't anybody using it? There's that disconnect. Well, that's Anticipating helpful and what's actually helpful. Yeah, we actually are currently facing that um, and I'm working really closely with the sustainability team, but they're hiring someone to do a study on Best practices to reach those communities because all of their programs are the same But this will also like I really want our Our update to be focusing on that like Where and how do we reach these communities? It's very important. Um, I don't I'm just remembering back I love garden in the box that gives somebody like the opportunity to change up their means to rocks No, is that it there's also But what about trees like you've got them in the box. I like trees in the market because they're a program where we can bring that aspect to communities and So yes, yeah, there is and I'm not sure how well that's promoted to and um I get the idea that there's this little cabal of people who know about it And they're dialling it didn't like the day it opens and like We're in mouth No, I mean the the lack of communication to our community members. I would say it's a statewide issue. It's not just my programs that people don't know about So we'll definitely work on that. There's a tree in the back. There's a tree. It's an arbor day sale and we get That's a large tree for $40. That's very amazing. But yeah, I mean I Yeah, no, I I say Well, if we when we get our map we some sort of like a coupon location to be identified to like really be like literally to keep my people Are we using a little visa Okay No, that's okay I I'm hearing a little bit of a kind of discussion about The way that it's kind of playing this hey, we have this program. How do we advertise this program to vulnerable communities? And I just want to make sure that we also kind of shift that around just a little bit which is Kind of more of a near global communities. What programs do you want? Absolutely? What what what programs would best um allow you to To meet the goals that we're trying to do with the programs that we provide right I think kind of like lower your water bill or more of those types of things that we really have You know some amount of review over so And you know just again kind of moving that mindset around a little bit We're not just figuring out ways Absolutely, and and again these are just things that we're proposing that we study The big part of what our update process is going to be is engaging with the community and making sure that we're doing What they ask of us and if they say your programs are bad. We don't want them We would actually rather you do this then we'll do that But this is like part of what we're going to be engaging our public in our community members on Moving on to three And it's a little bit of what we talked about before Creating sustainable and equitable landscapes through updating our city code language and design standards creating arterial right-of-way and residential community and commercial pre-approved landscape designs and updating our parks and public spaces standards um, this is again just reiterating that we don't Want to Just encourage so right now our code language encourages Low water water-wise landscaping. We're going to prioritize and or enforce Low water designs in the development and redevelopment of spaces and so for folks who want to tear out their yards we already have The language in our code that says like you can't have Just rock and you can't have just mulch. It has to be x percentage of living materials And so this will go a step further define what our low water use plants are define what our Pre-approved sort of, you know, obviously folks can do most of the time what they want to do but giving examples Right because what we find what I find daily is that people don't know And so if we have examples and I included some examples in In the packet we have examples that say like hey new developments a cost code that's putting in term right now Please don't do that Here's a streetscape for you that we love as a city and then they say okay cool And they're going to do it because we hear from developers that that's A common thing that they say we'll just do what you ask, but we're not asking them do anything So do you all support us? studying that in the creation of those designs doing a code audit studying our code figuring out the best language of code updates Um Preparing ourselves to other communities surrounding us anybody disagree Tommy Yes It's like putting in something brand new and then having nobody take care of it. So it's Yeah Another thing that's not included in this but just to let you all know that we're thinking about this is implementing some sort of I don't want to say contractual obligation because that sounds really harsh, but like if people tear out their turf And put in a wonderful interscape garden and then ten years later someone buys our home We're we're how are we getting? Not let them put grass back in so there's lots of communities who are doing something like this I hesitate of going in the direction of aurora. I feel like that's not where we're at But some sort of like conservation easement or like deed or something. I don't know what to do or do Well over is just saying no no front laws ever Castle rocks are the same So what what are you proposing that I proposed to hire someone to study what we should do So that we don't let people put grass back in after they We have launched a turf by that program But we are asking or suggesting that We put a little more thought and vet that program one option some type of conservation So de restriction It doesn't go back to that And there's a lot of issue, you know, how much do we do in turf? by that kind of you know There's a lot I I see that's a program that we just want to have a well thought out One word and kill some of the communities that research it for us Well, it's it's out there. I was just wondering how much we thought that older county they had there a decade ago The program by which they were trying to entice existing owners of real property to Create a more green energy friendly environment in the house and as a way to do that they were going to Pay that over Basically bacon in your mortgage So it would be an investment from the county into The county into the community, but the application would go with the house. So if you sold it The obligation to keep that is still with the house, right? When I took it away as I was in line to get that Because they thought they'll follow legally it's just back to where that that was but that would be a worthy conversation for the city to have with the county because they already gone down that path to the park In fact granted the first round of financing for that in the second round. They said, you know, we need to pull that So I don't know if I can remember what it was. I started being in line going All right, here's my drafty house. They could have got energy, you know through but There wasn't a lot and the conservation easement language came actually from a boulder county document that I was looking at They were granting that for folks to not change their landscape or something like that I'm not sure about the landscape in boulder county certainly went down that path with the size of houses and restricting the ability to increase the size of it and Creating conservation credits that could be transferred in other properties. So if you really could buy something that made it smaller Say that zero it out, but I don't know about the landscape But the energy out is pretty interesting because I think that's more similar to what you're talking about because it's a cost that the city's investing into a personal residence That needs to be protected over time That's as far as I'm going that's a perfect way to word it right is because that's what's That's exactly what's happening And it really comes down in my opinion is not practicing charting at the moment Is that whoever acquires about the future has to have some notice that there is a restriction on otherwise I think that's my ability So I think it's voluntary or it's a way to Yeah, I don't know. That's what I'm talking about Me too Well, that way stays stronger It's pretty good Sorry, that's okay. Yeah, no, wait there. Any other last comments? Okay What you wanted or needed Yes, yes, thumbs up. That's good. Water board says go ahead We talked slightly about this a little bit, but um Increasing our education in outreach and implementing practices to make the city of Guam on an example Of water efficiency for our community members and other communities. This is just like you said lots of jargon Really what I'm what I'm asking is do you approve increasing And making our education and outreach programs more robust Doing more studies figuring out what the what the public wants and how they want it education and outreach wise um And then because of that we'll get these outcomes of Uh, healthier watershed. This will increase education and outreach about watershed health. Um, and then We'll become an example of water efficiency for other communities and community members Is there a budgetary? issue with that? No, I just What I want our consultant to This is mostly this is all kind of like building upon our application for a consultant to come in and I'm I'm gonna say this is what we want like figure out how to make this happen because I'm just one person and like I mentioned I mean our our citywide communication is not well received I mean I work for the city and that's the only reason that I know about half the programs that we that we do So I think it's a citywide problem that we don't know how to reach our constituents I'd be careful with wording because I I doubt if there's a whole lot of Congruence between what the public wants and what the organization needs You know if your water bills were low you and didn't anticipate Getting a wall in terms of supply Everyone would want brass because it's the easiest thing so Just ask the question in a different way Um, and then the last one number five plays off again, um with It goes hand in hand with number three of just kind of updating our codes and design standards And basically it's just implementing that growing water smart lines to our city development processes. Um It's it's basically focusing on the integration of water Making sure that water resources is more involved in our city development And that we're working collaboratively Sorry, it took so long again Oh, it's not worthwhile It's been really care and we're so excited and if I could just take this chance to tell you guys that hope presented the same thing Not to any more conservative suggestions, right? It's such an amazing job I missed it. I missed it quick. Let me tell you should a great job Thanks Thank you Okay, so that's all I have for the council communication And then lastly there's I'm just coming with a draft letter of support. Um, and there's more to make sure about this project for the I think I'm aware of this because I was like, you guys kind of drilled them a little bit, but the integrals might be a little bit more Um for the native grass species design and the website So this is a project that's being led by far experience utilities. Um, basically it's creating a best management practices guide resource for people who want to do large commercial property term transitions Because it doesn't currently exist. So this we're just asking for You all to sign off on the letter of support for their cwcb grants To create a website for all of these documents and resources that Multiple members of the city is working on team members All right, move second all in favor say aye. All right. Thanks for caring for your feedback Thank you All right next Yeah, I think um, don't have a whole lot to update on other than the instructions continuing going going well They're you know, they're at the point. I think we discussed last month there at the point where they're Just last month. I just started like a few days before um Actually starting the day I'm going up and starting the hydraulic asphalt They're now at a point where they're going between nine nine inches and 12 inches a day And so that's really good. Of course, they're down at the bottom and it's not too wide as they Go out that it gets wider and wider So I'll slow down a little bit. Obviously as you go up but It's quite well I'm hoping for lots of snow for a snowpack and over the construction weather Upon the project. So you'll I'm a little Torn there But no there things are going As you say, I got sent to me on sunday or saturday the jimmy hallow resident work project update video That was videos with a 20.2 fall symposium. It's a youtube video. It was really good 20 minutes long I almost show up today. Good. It was just like yeah, that's 20 minutes. But it is Because I don't link around kind of you got it. I might just send the link. It's on the it's on the jimmy hallow project That's right. I'll send that one because it's really really well worth watching Yeah Okay, jason are you down in there? Yes, mr. Chair. You ready? I'll keep mine under two minutes Just got a couple quick updates. We're wrapping up a couple projects the sassy brain pipeline I think I mentioned last time we were closing that project down. It's it's now complete with the exception that the Pumps are still vibrating the best of that issue will work with the pump manufacturer It's nothing that I don't think we can't fix we're gonna put some additional supports in there for the pipes and everything To brace that to try to minimize the vibration They're engineering teams working on solutions. So Other than just delaying our ability to use the station the project itself itself is this sort of So Everything's looking good. I think I did mention last time that it's worth repeating that we did make deliveries to us and playing we're using The pump station we did about 1.3 million galleon 1.3 million gallons, which I know is a drop in the bucket, but it is it is our first delivery and quite in Not quite two decades 16 years So it's a lot so so anyway, so that's good and then um earlier today was up at put rock out putting the last um fixing the last few leaks of the The outlet gate repairs and stuff. So we had some some hydrology leaks and stuff like that. So anyway, um That project was now complete Everything's going good there We were leaking around the gate down at the bronze seat the bronze seats the piece of bronze that the gate actually Closes it closes on a piece of bronze and that was The original component they've been using bell zone. Well, which is a coating and everything to try to get the seal um So in a way that it's it's something that we weren't able to fix last time when we did the overall gate So we went in ripped out the other one put it in new one was now serviceable And anyway that's complete and today's little touch up was simply just to kind of put that project to bed So anyway, it's up and going and you can now Making additional releases west It's pretty boring there at 17cfs. We're really going through the five paths. So I was like, what are we going to use it on? I don't know. It might be springtime, but anyway, um, that's that's really what we got. Um From nature We'll do on to the next project. Good job Yeah, that was impressive Any questions for Jason? Okay Review a major project listing anything any comments about future board meetings on major project listed by anybody My only comment would be we've listed some of the larger The a through a we don't want to list some of the larger But as you forwarded asked them when we have opportunities and A little bit shorter agenda is we can bring some of these forward. So um If there are additional major subject areas you would like to have special presentations. Just let us know We'll be happy. You know one thing Came up a little earlier. You mean our candidates about Project that's going up your sunset pool Oh, yes, you know, I think it'd be interesting for us to get an overview of I mean that is a major major Construction project be I think it'd be good for us to get a little information on that if you would mind working at him Somehow, we will I don't know who's in charge of that They asked if Jason was what the answer was. No, it's not but all over the case I think it'd be informative. So it is Most of the most visceral Symbol of water in the Long Island area, right? The hill is a lot or you can see it's remembering the water. Yeah, that's the water system Yeah, it's interesting You didn't are up in the hills taking down that whole building structure I live right north of there Now when the train goes through None of the noise is blocked by that so I Here we'll I don't know if that's a benefit or what but it's it was interesting Okay informational items Um Items get only we talked about cash and lose coming in March and Oh, that's right. Okay. Thank you Any uh, any discussion of future water board agenda? All right, bro. I think we gotta conclude it Uh, john thanks for attending the meeting right here. Thanks john and uh Hope everybody has a happy Thanksgiving Um Thank you very much