 And welcome to At the Crossroads. I am your host, Pisha King. And today we are here for a special edition of At the Crossroads, one that is very personal to me. Today we are going to discuss the mass shooting that took place in Virginia Beach, Virginia, just this month. It's a sad but often repeated occasion where we have these discussions about mass shootings in the workplace, or at the movie theater, or in Vegas while many are on vacation. It's becoming very common. That's very sad that our society has turned to this as a way of coping with their disgruntled employment. This is no exception. We had a disgruntled employee who went after a couple of days of turning in his resignation for work into his former place of employment and killed innocent co-workers and colleagues who had families, children, mothers, fathers, husbands, and wives that they will no longer see they sent their family members off to work with the expectation that they would return home safe. And that didn't happen. For 12 innocent victims and one man's disgruntled mind, we have no explanation. And there certainly is no excuse. And quite honestly, it makes me downright angry that we have to have these stories over and over and over again in today's society. Here at the Crossroads, we love to have conversations that are real and relevant, that enlighten us, and help equip us for our everyday lives. But today, we have a story that we cannot make sense of. It is a relevant conversation because it's happening all too often. It's a real conversation because they are real people, real victims, who are hurting. But it's a sad conversation that I really would rather not have to discuss. Today, I want to put special emphasis on one of the victims who gave his life for his colleagues. I am speaking of none other than Ryan Keith Cox. Earlier today, I had a discussion with a friend of Ryan's, a friend of Keith as he was affectionately known. And we're going to share with him his thoughts on this tragic incident and his relationship to Ryan Keith Cox. So we'll turn now to that video and we'll let you join in on that discussion. Thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Allen. I know this is such a tragic time in the life of your personal family and your church family. Can you please tell us your special relationship with one of the victims, Keith Cox? Yes, Keith's first name is actually Ryan Keith Cox. And we've been known him as Keith's, as he was a little child. Keith was a, he is actually the youngest son of Pastor E. Ray Cox. And he was just a great, solid young Christian man all the way around. Yeah. So then you all were friends and members of the same church. He's a lifelong member. His father started to go back to church 52 years ago. He was 49 years ago and Keith is 50 years old. So he's been in that church almost his entire life. Wow. So I've been in the church. I have known Keith for over 20 something years. Keith was one of the men of the church who was just a person who was there to do whatever needed to be done. And he was blessed with a beautiful tenor singing voice. Wow. He could sing. Wow. And he was very active in the church choirs and specifically the men of hope, which is a choir of about six men who are, that's great. And he ain't quite a little renowned for that thing, he's a great guy. Right. You know, I think about what I've heard on the media regarding his personality. It is not unusual from what I've understood that he would throw his body as a true and living sacrifice to save others. Can you talk to us about his character in that regard? You know, I've known Keith as a man around the church. I've known him as a singer and a choir. I've known him as a young man and then I watched him mature into a mature man. All three of those parts of his life have always been tied together about the fact that Keith is the type of person who's very, very caring, very intelligent, inquisitive person, very polite, always looking to put people first, always looking to see how he could help. He wasn't the type of person that, you know, you needed to ask, hey, man, can you help me if all you're doing is something that he would help you do it. And very lately, I had the opportunity to see Keith as a student. About two months ago, Keith started coming to the ministerial training class and I teach a class preparing, you know, newly called ministers to the gospel. We prepare them with classes on teaching and preaching and pastoral counseling. I got to know Keith as a student and he was very astute, very conscientious, and very engaged. He's just the type of person that he would want to introduce his daughter to. Wow. And in fact, someone did do that and he actually was married and I saw his wife's interview. How is she holding up? How is the family as a whole? I know this is the most tragic of all tragedies. How are they holding up? Well, Keith was married years ago and the young lady who did that interview was actually his ex-wife. How I see. But she and her family were members of New Hope Years ago. But she came to the house the other day when I was here and, you know, the Cox family still embraced her and, you know, we all still love her. She's her father, as a matter of fact, as an associate minister. Sure, why? So they're doing well. That side of the family is doing well. Mrs. Cox was very, very close to Keith and, you know, when all of this activity began on Friday afternoon and it began to break on the news, you know, I got a call from my wife saying that Ms. Cox had just called her and said that was Keith's building that was on the news. I mean, this was happening at the time we started to get the breaking news. From now, we know the timeline. The Dunman was still inside the building once it broke on the new pool. She kept calling Keith. She then, Ms. Cox kept calling Keith, kept calling Keith. Keith didn't answer. He didn't call her back. That old type of person that, if his mother calls, he's gonna stop and touch base with his mother. And so we all began to, you know, feel the worst, but it was all at four o'clock, 4.30 in the afternoon, but it wasn't until 10.30 at night that they gave passball. And Keith's oldest brother was with Pastor when they got the word that Keith was one of the people who had been killed. Ms. Cox was holding up very well under the circumstances. She broke down really bad when they first told her the news. She's processed it. That's why the reason why we're going to this vigil tonight, she didn't feel well enough to go to the vigil that the minister's conference held last Sunday evening. But she wanted to go to this one tonight. So we're gonna go and let her have an opportunity to get the more to breathe out of her system. Tomorrow we'll be doing the viewing of the body and the entirety will be doing the service. You know, I want to thank you all. Pastor Cox will be. Okay, go ahead. No, no, no. Please wait. Yes, I'm gonna say that Pastor Cox is going to do the eulogy. Oh, wow. And my pastor is a man who's been pastoring for 57 years. He's been pastoring for 57 years. That's a lifetime. And he is the type of individual that is lifetime. And he's the type of individual that's saying that talks God constantly. He has been so strong. I've learned more and watched him come home and tell his wife that their baby boy had to kill. And then let him minister to the household of people that were there. I learned more in that one setting that I've learned in all my schooling on how to be a pastor. Right. I think when you are leading any type of block, any congregation or business or any organization, I think when you have to deliver any type of tragic news, it is probably very hard of the toughest learning experiences that a person will have to face. And I'm very, again, very sorry for this tragic incident and for their loss. We certainly send our best regards here from Hawaii to everyone there in Virginia Beach. We stand in solidarity with you all. Our prayers and our thoughts are with you. I realized that either it just ended, the Hampton ministers conference is either going on. Yeah, so I know that they are going on this week. It is this week. So I know that there are many that are praying for you all and are supportive of you all. I hope that there are grief counselors in place in addition to the spiritual leadership that is there. I know it's very taxing on everyone. And grief is one of those processes that you have to go through. It strikes all of us different. I appreciate how you're holding up and working with the family. And I know you have to go right now because you are about to go to the vigil. Just know that there are many of us Virginians that are here in Honolulu and we are standing there with you in spirit in hopes for healing as you make it through such a very tough time. Okay, well, if I have a couple of more minutes. Pardon me? Do I have a couple more minutes? Yes. Yes, please. I would be remiss if I did touch on what you just said. My grief is being, is being touched a little bit by the fact of the circumstances around Keith's actions. Keith was preparing himself to be in preacher. He was coming to the class. I mean, when I said he was engaged in our classes, he was engaged in my class. He and the people in the class were friends. I mean, that was a tight knit little group of us in there. We had some great teaching moments and some great talking moments, great fellowship moments. And Keith and I used to be in to the class before everybody else, but he and I talked about what it meant to be a minister, what it meant to prepare sermons and the responsibility of giving people something that they can live by. And we talked about how his father at 57 years had probably reached thousands of sermons. And he and I was laughing and talking about him preaching his initial sermon. And it turned out that God only had one assignment for Keith. He only had one sermon to preach. And that sermon was, no greater love has any man than he laid down his life for his friend. On May the 31st, around about four o'clock in the afternoon, Keith preached his holy sermon. And I'm telling you, this thing has six actions, the saving people, ushering people into their rooms, going back down and looking for other people to help. And unfortunately, reading is on demise. This thing has touched us to the point where our grief is not as bad as I could have been because we can't help but be proud of the way this man had died. Good. So I just felt like we need to make sure that we don't forget. And I wanted to make sure that I got that out there to your audience. Keith did what God would have him to do. He preached his sermon. And look at it, it's reaching all the way to life. It's reaching all the way to Hawaii and beyond. And I think that is probably the most important message that he could give as a man of faith, as a human being is to love others more than you love yourself so much so that you would actually throw your life on the line in the heat of danger. So many times we hear and see things that are happening and we say, oh, if I were there, I would do thus and so. And at this point, we don't have to wonder what would Keith do? He did what he knew to do. And as you so eloquently stated, he lived and preached his one and only sermon that he was divinely designed for. He was designed to do that for us. It's more than just heroic. It is the answer to the question, what would Jesus do? He did the same thing for so many, for so many. And I really am at a loss for words, just basically trying to control my emotions on the fact that someone really did do this. And because of someone else's actions, and there are many people who owe him a great deal of thanks. And so I currently thank you for being on and sharing his story. I think it's so important that as many people as can would hear and know about this man who did this and the others whose lives were lost will say each and every name of the victim at the end of our show today. And thank you, Dr. Allen, for being a teacher, an educator to other ministers. This is one of the greatest lessons and stories you'll have to tell about someone who did what you teach and preach about as for what exactly what our Lord and Savior did. So again, thank you so much for your time today. Our condolences to the family. We are definitely keeping you in our prayers in hopes that the grief will run its course and the beautiful memories will last forever. Again, Dr. Allen James Allen, Associate Minister at the New Hope Baptist Church in Virginia Beach, friend to victim, Ryan Keith Cox. Thank you again. Aloha. Thank you. Aloha to you as well. So as you can see from that discussion, it's very tough. That family now is traveling and going to a memorial and there are several others like it out in Virginia Beach and our hearts go out to all the victims and their families and the citizens. They had no idea what that day was going to entail. But we here in Hawaii have had a very similar experience. We hope that they will find solace in knowing sadly that they're not the only ones who have suffered this type of tragedy. And hopefully they will pull strength from each other and from all of us around the world. Here in Hawaii, we faced a similar tragedy 20 years ago and we have with us former mayor and prosecuting attorney, Peter Carlisle who will share with us his experience as he participated in the conviction of a mass shooting right here in Hawaii. So again, joining us here at the crossroads is Peter Carlisle. Thank you for being here, Peter. It's my pleasure. Thank you so much. You know, this is such a tragic but familiar experience. Tell us about your experience in the mass shooting that took place here in Hawaii. Well, it was Byron Uisugi who was the perpetrator. He shot and killed seven people and barely missed another one. And it is above all things a cowardly act. You are dealing with people who are not armed. You are dealing with people who could not escape because he stood in the doorway of the room that the, where the people were killed. And you see these things over and over and over again and at some point we're going to have to stop acting humanely and start working with tremendous vigor to make sure that we can get these people and I believe that they should face the death penalty. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think what happens is they prey on innocent victims and then they commit suicide a lot of times or either as in the case in Virginia Beach where armed the police officers had to actually take him down because there was an actual shootout. But other than his own death, he faces no penalty. That's a complete truth. And it's now really become a question of this is happening over and over again. It's a complete pattern. It's obvious that these people are doing this for the specific reason of their self gratification and the fact that they don't care because they'll kill themselves in the process or they don't care because they make excuses about being mentally ill at a time when that may have been the case but it was not under the purview of something that would have been justifiable in any shape, fashion, or form. Right. Can you paint a picture? Take us back 20 years ago. What exactly happened at that Xerox building which by the way is not too far from our studios where we are right now? No, it was close by. I was actually preparing for another case and then somebody said something is going on at the Xerox building which of course it made me close to home because my wife is a Xerox employee. Oh my, so your wife was an employee? It was a Xerox employee and she knew every one of the people who were killed by Byron Uisugi. So it was very difficult for her and she, we went to all of the funerals, every one and it was for her to go there to talk with her comrades and me I was simply there following up with what I could say about what had happened but it is something that is now a go-to for a certain group of people and that can't continue. That's right. So on that day you heard that there was something happening at the Xerox building and what did you do next? Was it on TV? Well, they started, they basically called and made it apparent that there was something going on and that now there were a lot of dead bodies and so it was my responsibility after I called, actually what I did was I called the guy who was the district attorney over in Columbine and I said, hey, this is what's happened. I'm planning on going over there. Is that something that I should do? And he said, absolutely, you need to do that. And so I went there. I started, when I walked into the building after the shooting had occurred, the one thing that I immediately noticed was the taste of metallic taste in my mouth which is from hemoglobin and then there's also the smell of the gunfire so basically the ammunition puts out also a smell. So when you have that combination, you pretty much know that there's something that's catastrophic that has occurred. That's right. And so you're there on the scene, you have these scents and this smell and then I can imagine the shock and the horror and the grief that's flooding your mind as well as many others at that time. You couldn't miss it and you have to go through a certain protocol to make sure that you're doing all the things and to make sure that you're preserving the crime scene and you have to do that and it involves very unpleasant things to look at and again things that smell and feel very, very sinister. Yes, I can imagine that it's got to be the worst experience anyone could ever face. You have to have a special type of tenacity to withhold and to stand in the midst of that and to actually do your job. I'm thinking about one of the victims who said, I had to step over dead bodies in order to get out and there are the people who are the actual victims who passed away but then I can imagine the victims who survived but they're victims because they were there and they had to see those horrific sights. You have immediately an entry of all of the people who are the police officers who have to do their job and the technicians who have to do their jobs and so we got the person who is the head of the screening division who was a friend of mine, he was one of the older prosecutors too and we went down there and looked at it and smelled the smells and saw what was going on, see this horrific amount of blood covering the room and the enormous pool and the changing of colors and then gunshot odors, it's not something that's easy to get over. Right, right, it's so tragic. The victims now have a whole new life that they have to face without their loved ones or I should say the survivors have to face a whole new life without their loved ones and the city of Virginia Beach stands really strong. It's a wonderful city. They just had a remarkable festival called Something in the Water and a host of celebrities from all over came to celebrate a great city. Pharrell who is one of the, that is his hometown and he's a musician, he came there and he spoke so highly of the city and they were just recognized for just being such a wonderful place and so hospitable and now here they are again just weeks later in the news for something so tragic. I hope that and I wholly wholeheartedly believe that they will pull together as a city united to support one another in this time. I'm wondering how did Hawaii pull together at that time 20 years ago? Well it immediately became apparent that this person had done his murders and then ran away. So he turned tail and ran which is of course what most cowards do. Yes. And they immediately evacuated the entire Xerox complex and that is what led to essentially the kind of difficulties you see with the people who are doing all of the productive work in terms of their duties when something like this happens. Yeah and so it's so tragic because you want to quickly evacuate. You want to get out, to get to safety but you have an actual crime scene that you have to be careful of and I guess from your point of view as an attorney that is... It's critical. Yes. You have to make sure that all the evidence is properly preserved. You need to figure out what he was doing and why he did some of the things that he did. You could find out very quickly that he decided that he was going to play God and what he did was he sought somebody who he knew and liked, let that guy go and then the other people who he couldn't stand he shot down dead and he stood over them and shot them in their heads and in their hearts. That's tragic, that's terrible. It's brutal. Brutal. Those are the things that make me fight and mad because you have this, as you said, coward making this type of taking this act and taking the power of life and death into his own hands at his discretion. Yeah, I can't emphasize enough that this is an absolutely unequivocal cowardly act. They're not fighting people on an even basis. They're killing people methodically and for no other reason than their own self-gratification. Well, I want to talk to you more. We're going to take a break but I want to talk to you more about why this is happening so often, so it seems. We want to get into the why and then I really, really, really want to figure out how we can help. How is there something we can do or something that you observed that you'd like to share with us as well? So we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we're going to continue talking with former mayor and prosecuting attorney Peter Carlisle, who was there for the 20 years ago for the Xerox mass shooting here in Hawaii, as we bridge the gap in sending our condolences to the Virginia Beach family as they are dealing with their mass shooting that took place this week. Again, I am Keisha King and you're watching at the Crossroads Special Edition. Hi, I'm Rusty Komori, host of Beyond the Lines on Think Tech Hawaii. My show is based on my book, also titled Beyond the Lines, and it's about creating a superior culture of excellence, leadership, and finding greatness. I interview guests who are successful in business, sports, and life, which is sure to inspire you in finding your greatness. Join me every Monday as we go Beyond the Lines at 11 a.m., Aloha. Hey, Aloha, my name is Andrew Lening. I'm the host of Security Matters Hawaii, airing every Wednesday here on Think Tech Hawaii, live from the studios. I'll bring you guests, I'll bring you information about the things in security that matter to keeping you safe, your coworkers safe, your family safe, to keep our community safe. We wanna teach you about those things in our industry that may be a little outside of your experience. So please join me because Security Matters, Aloha. And welcome back to At the Crossroads special edition. I am your host, Keisha King, and we are speaking live with former mayor of Honolulu, Hawaii, and prosecuting attorney, Peter Carlile. Thank you for coming back with us, Peter. My pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. We're having a tough discussion about the mass shooting that took place both here in Hawaii as it relates to the one in Virginia Beach, but I could also say the one in Las Vegas, so the one in Miami, Florida. Like, why is this happening so often now? Well, you wonder whether or not constantly seeing this type of thing over and over again has some impact, but it has to be shown over and over again for reasons of security. And that's one of the things that we need to be very much aware of in terms of making sure that if we have an opportunity to keep someplace more secure, then we take advantage of that. No, wait, no, I disagree. I'm hearing what you're saying. We need more security. What type of security? We cannot have security at every single job. And what if the security is the first person killed? I mean, you know, we screen people. I used to work as a director of human resources. We do a background check. We have these psychological tests that we have people go through to get a job even at a place like retail. Ross, you have to complete a psychological test. What more security do we need that would prevent mass murder? The, what we do in terms of security is now it's enhanced. And we make things secure by screening type methods. So we screen people as they go in and out of a courthouse. We screen people when they are moving through certain areas. And we need to have those types of abilities to essentially try to preclude people from committing these types of crimes. Again, I'm all over the place for that because now in Virginia Beach, we're talking about a municipal center. We're talking about an employee who has already passed every screening test to get hired in the first place. And I remember, I believe I heard a person who was a passerby saying that he saw the gunman walking and thought it was a part of an actual test or a drill. I don't know, but I know in a lot of buildings in Virginia Beach, those types of government buildings, you do have security that you have to go through. There is a wand guy there to check you. So I don't know that that's the answer, that more security is the solution. Well, you have to enforce it. In other words, so you have to make sure that you're doing those things that you are supposed to be doing. And if you're not doing that, then you've got to get on board and do it. I think that it's a people problem, just like every other problem. I think that we need- People are a very, very distinct problem constantly. Yes, yes. If they could just get it together as a human race. But no, seriously, I think that what we're facing is people who don't have coping skills. They cannot manage their emotions under pressure. This guy seemed to be okay and had no real reason to resign. And yet he resigned with a eloquently written letter to say, basically, thank you for my time and yours. I will no longer be here. And then seemingly out of nowhere, he returns to kill his colleagues. There's no security that can prevent that. There is, I have no words for what could possibly be going through someone's mind to make them do this. And furthermore, what coping skills, I mean, where can we get those types of coping skills that's necessary? Like what do you need to know to say, don't go killing everybody when you're angry? That's a point well taken. I mean, the answer is this is something that they need to do. They obviously, they need to figure out how to control themselves. And yet they fail over and over and over again. And we see it progressively occurring more and more. So as a result, that's something that we have to approach from my mind with the concept of prevention. So what can we do to stop this type of behavior? And that, I think, can be at least dealt with to some extent by making sure that people are properly secure in the workplace and in their homes and in their wherever they happen to be. And that's what needs to happen. In their homes, but also in their schools. Schools are extremely important. Actually, all of the institutions are extremely important. But schools right now are critical. I mean, daycare centers are critical. Everywhere. It almost feels as if no place is safe. In Virginia, also we had 38, I believe 33 or 38 victims in the Virginia Tech shooting. Remember that not too long ago. So there's the higher institution of learning. And then we can look at other places and look at the elementary schools and the middle and high schools that don't appear to be safe anymore. And it's got to be a coordinated effort. So if the feds are there and they can bring something to the table, we should cooperate with them as well. So when you go over to the federal building, that's a very, very secure building as well. That's something that's necessary for us to have. And we can't live without that type of thing anymore now that these things are occurring over and over and over again. And we really just don't have any understanding or explanation as to why we're seeing them more frequently. Do you have any insight on that? Well, I do genuinely think that because we see it so frequently now in so many different ways that other people are sort of copying that as how they're going to leave the earth and by slaughtering people who are defenseless. But so that seems to me to be a problem. Right. And that's why I will not say the name of the shooter in this. I will not acknowledge him at all. I don't think he deserves the honor of anyone saying his name. And I'm not even sure if that was what he was looking for, but I won't give it to him. And so many others like him, they don't deserve that. They don't. They absolutely don't. And they're deserving of virtually nothing. And there is no nothing we can do to stop them. And there's everything we should be able to do to make their lives absolutely miserable from now to eternity. If you've killed people in this fashion and killed children, then you have basically lost your card to be a member of the human race. There you go. Death penalty is an option. Sometimes I get fightin' mad and I feel like get a firing squad. Just get the guy and we all get a chance at him. Just because it's just so awful what they've done. And we want to be able to just, we need an outlet, which brings us to that grieving process. We want, I would love to see it, that people would have a way where they can safely go through that grieving process and have that outlet that's so necessary when you can't put the person in prison or find justice in any other way. No, the results are inadequate in terms of us having that type of ability. But we can do everything humanly possible to move down that road as quickly as possible. And you're right. Give absolutely no quarter to this person as a human being because they're not. Yeah. Yeah. There were 12 victims and we're going to honor them and their families by saying their names. And then we're going to search for words of condolences to share with them, just as we did 20 years ago when we had to go through the same thing here in Hawaii. What has been, if you can find any bright spot, what has been anything that you can look to to say that was tough, probably the worst, but this is how we overcame it? And any other parting words if you have? Well, I think awareness is something that's been completely enhanced right now. And I think people are understanding that these things aren't territorial. If we need to help from an institution such as the federal building, if we need to help from the people who are on the federal side of the street, we should be all working together, which we are doing. And that should be our opportunity to be able to say, okay, we're doing this now. And what the goal is, is to make sure that it doesn't happen again. That's the goal. No more. No more. Good, no more. No more. I like that. There you go. For our victims and their families, we honor you. We're so sorry for your loss. Each and every one of you. Laquita C. Brown. Brian Keith Cox. Mary Louise Gale. Michelle Missy Langer. Christopher Kelly Rapp. Herbert Bert Snelling. Alexander Mikhail Yusev. Joshua O. Hardy. Richard N. Nettleton. Catherine A. Nixon. Robert Bobby Williams. We remember you. We honor you. Our condolences to your family and to the entire city of Virginia Beach, the state of Virginia, and our nation as a whole. That was hard for you to do. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for spending your time with us this afternoon. Thank you for prosecuting and winning your case 20 years ago. And also thank you for the difference you made as mayor and as prosecuting attorney here in Hawaii. It's been a joy and a pleasure doing those works. I did them out of love of the work and my love of the kind of business I was in. So I thank everybody who allowed me to do it. And I want to thank you for being such an integral part of it as well. Thank you. Thank you. I would say it's been my pleasure certainly to meet you and spend this time and gain insight. Even though it's such a tough conversation to have. Thank you again. Aloha, aloha, aloha to you. Aloha, aloha. We're gonna pull through this. We're gonna pull through this, Virginia. Thank you for joining us, Dr. James Allen. Our condolences and thoughts and prayers are with the new Hope Baptist Church in Virginia Beach. Thank you to Dr. Gunns. And to all of you watching at the Crossroads Special Edition, I am your host, Pisha King. I'll see you next time. Aloha.