 Hi, and welcome to School of Hustle, the show where we chat with everyday entrepreneurs about everything that goes into starting a new venture from aha moments to future plans. We cover it all. And I tell ya! Podcast, so we'd like to take a moment to introduce ourselves. I am Sarah Funk, and you can find me on Instagram at sarahfunky. I'm a YouTuber. I run my own NYC tour company, and I'm a travel host and expert on travel leisure and forks. And I live and breathe the entrepreneurial lifestyle. And I'm Maxim Mardinow, online at Maxim McKay, and I'm a fantasy author, go daddy brand writer, and a relentless advocate for entrepreneurs everywhere. Yes, and if you enjoy this episode, and we really hope that you do, please subscribe, leave us a review, and tell of your friends to listen in. So, Maxim, tell me about this fantasy novel you wrote. I saw on your Instagram, your face makeup on it. Yeah, that's like a new thing I'm doing right now. So that's a little unrelated. So I wrote a book, it's a young adult fantasy novel called Kingdom of Exiles. And I'm finding that in these current times, I'm having a really hard time being creative and tapped into my work. So I decided like, let's do this quarantine activity where I do makeup like book covers. So I started this Instagram story where I'm doing different makeup, with different book covers, and it's been a lot of fun. I love that because I also, I can relate to what you're saying. It's very challenging to be creative during these times. And I mean, I've read that in times of struggle, creativity is supposed to be rampant. I have not experienced that yet. Me neither. I'm like, when is this happening? Because any moment now, I'm gonna have that breakthrough idea. Right? And it's like, there's nothing like a good deadline to like get you in the zone. And that you sure for me, but it's not at all applicable right now. Yeah, right? Just like, oh man. Channel about travel in New York. And it's like, how do you make videos about travel in New York when you can't travel? Yeah, so what are you even doing then? Well, you know, I think part of being an entrepreneur is you constantly have to adapt to what's going on in the world. So I'm doing a few different things. Obviously, I have a tour company in New York, by the way, and obviously that can't be running. So I've been doing a tour, which has been going well. But for content creation on my YouTube, I started a cooking series with my husband where we would like make New York recipes. Like we show people how to make New York pizza and like other things that are New York. So we're gonna see how that goes. I'm always thinking like, how can I make this into something more? So I'm like, if this really takes off, I could do a whole cookbook. But that's just my crazy entrepreneur mind where I'm always like, okay, this can happen and this, this, this, that. And today we are fortunate enough to have an amazing guest join us for this episode. We will be speaking with Jason Chang, the CEO and co-founder of Kinos. Now Kinos is a venture-back company that's pioneering colorized disinfection to protect healthcare workers, patients, and the general public from infections. And their main product called Highlight is a patented color additive for disinfectants designed to improve cleaning and eliminate human error. Jason, thanks for being here. Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be on. So in your own words, tell us a little bit about your company. Yeah, so Kinos is based out of Brooklyn, New York. We protect healthcare workers, patients, and the general public from infections. Yeah, and what you're doing right now is amazing. Like we all appreciate what you're doing to help save the world, quite literally a crazy time we're all in, and your work has been featured in major publications even before this whole situation we're dealing with, like TechCrunch, Scientific American, and VR. Did you expect your company to become what it is today? So we have a really cool origin story. Back in 2014, when myself and my two co-founders were undergrads at Columbia, this was the height of the Ebola outbreak in West Africa. So Columbia held this design challenge where they actually brought in nurses and doctors from the field. And one of the really cool things is that we got to hear problems directly from them. And one of the big ones was that ineffective disinfection and human error was literally killing them. And if only there was some way they could see what they were doing. And that's really how we came up with the concept of colorized disinfection. So the problem that we're trying to address here is the idea that about half of the critical surfaces in a healthcare setting are not properly disinfected. And some studies have even shown that up to 40 to 80% of infections could be prevented if we had better cleaning technique. So what we did to address this problem is we created a patented color additive called highlight, which is meant to be combined with existing disinfectants that people are already using. So highlight enhanced bleach, for example, is colorized. So you can actually see where it's being applied. You never miss a spot. And then the color will then fade from color to color less. And that will provide real-time feedback of when the surface is safe to touch. And yeah, when we first started, it was actually the night of my 21st birthday. I actually almost didn't go to the design challenge. But my co-founder, Katherine, she convinced me to go and the rest is kind of history. I think it's hilarious that this all happened on your 21st birthday, a time when most people are just going out partying that is just amazing that you're doing something positive for the world in that way. So if I'm understanding correctly, the highlighting agent is you put it in an existing cleaning product and it will work that way. So if someone purchases this, it could be a medical professional or someone that is just like me, that we want to clean and just make sure that everything is cleaned properly. Yes, so I can run you through how it actually works. So right now we have a protocol to highlight powder. And as the name suggests, it's a powder that you'll pour into a bleach solution. So one of the caveats of the technology is that it currently only works with bleach. We do have ongoing R&D for non-bleach disinfectants like alcohol and quaternary moaning compounds, hydrogen peroxide and so on. So bringing back to that moment, you had just kind of come up with this concept for Kenos. So what was the first thing you did to make this idea become reality? I mean, completely honestly, like our first prototypes were literally just that they were prototypes. We went to Morton Williams to the grocery store, he bought some food coloring and tried putting into bleach. That didn't work at all. So what did you do to overcome those type of challenges? Yeah, so one of the big hurdles that we came across was when we were talking to, when we're doing our original research and we're talking to first responders, we asked them, what is your standard protocol? What are you using to disinfect all these surfaces? And they said bleach. And so, when here in the US, when you go buy bleach, you're buying liquid Clorox bleach from Dwayne Reed or CVS. But when you actually go to the field, you realize that there are different kinds of bleach. So in the US of sodium hypochlorite, which is liquid, but in a lot of areas internationally, they actually use powdered bleach, which is either calcium hypochlorite or sodium trochocene. And these are actually very different chemistries. So, and we realized that our color-fading reaction that we've been developing only worked with sodium hypochlorite and not the other kinds of bleach. So we had to kind of go back to the drawing board and reformulate a bit so that it'd work with those other types of chemistries. So, I think that for any entrepreneur who's just developing a product for the first time, the most helpful thing to do is get out of your little tinkering bubble at your lab and actually go out and try it and get as much feedback as you can as soon as possible. Let's talk about the day that you launched your business. What were you feeling in that moment? And it could, it's not always just one moment. I feel like a business kind of launches over a period of time. Were you scared? Were you excited? Can you bring us to that moment? Yeah, I mean, I was actually gonna say exactly what you said. It's, you know, there isn't really like, like a tangible inflection point at which you're like, oh, now I have this business and it's launched. It's more like, you know, we had been developing this product, you know, the fire department in New York. We tested with them. But there's so many other hurdles when running any business. And I believe that in the healthcare industry, I feel like there's a lot more things to consider when starting a business. You have government regulations, raising capital. Could you talk about that a little bit? I mean, I think one of the kind of difficult things about healthcare is that it's a industry where credentials kind of matter a lot and having experience in knowing how to navigate this huge bureaucratic system. And I don't think that we actually would have been able to make any headway if we hadn't gotten that government grant from USAID. Just because, you know, when you're a busy doctor at any bullet treatment unit, you know, you're not gonna take an email from like a 21 year old who has an idea, right? You know, really, you know, having an introduction in the U.S. government helps a lot. And that's how we got in touch with our first kind of NGO partners to do the field testing in West Africa. You know, I think one of the things that I regret a little bit from college is that I spent too much time studying. And, you know. Same, but every so small, so much. But I think there's so much you can learn by doing versus reading. I think reading is very important in educating yourself as much as you can. But just try it. If you read 100 books, but don't ever try anything, nothing will ever be accomplished. And I think kind of the big thing I learned when I actually, like, I think for a lot of people in college, right, you're stuck in this bubble mentality where it's like, I need to get good grades. I need to finish my homework. I need to be president of a club. And you're just like, oh, I need to get an internship. But when I actually went to Liberia and I was interacting with these healthcare workers and they were telling me, you know, like I feel so much safer and more confident in using this product. Thank you so much. And like that feeling of empowerment that we were able to provide to them, you know, I think that made me realize that even though I'm young, I don't have like an MBA or a medical degree, you know, I was able to impact this person's life. And that kind of pops the bubble for me. I completely agree with you. I think direct feedback from your customers, whoever they might be, is the most satisfying, fulfilling thing you could ever get to motivate you to do even more with your business. Yeah, one of the things I learned over the years is I think when you're starting a company for the first time, a lot of these awards and media coverage seem really, really important. But I think that there also is a balance. You know, when we first started, we were exclusively focused on like applying all these competitions and trying to get as much like recognition as possible. But, you know, what's really important is actually the impact that you're able to provide to the people you're trying to help and actually creating a sustainable business. What would you like to improve about your business this year or in the future? Yeah, so we have this product launch coming out for our second product. So as I described earlier, you know, our first product is highlight powder, which is meant to, you know, be dissolved in liquids and then sprayed on surfaces. Our second product is really meant to be used with wipes. Most hospitals here in the U.S. ready to use wipe canisters. So if you imagine like a bucket of Clorox wipes, you know, you're just pulling it out of the can. You know, that's what people are doing and you can't really dissolve a powder in that. There's not enough liquid inside the container. And so what we did is we built a physical hardware device that we call the highlight wipes lid. And the idea is that you put our lid device on top of your bucket of wipes and as the wipe goes through our lid, it will get colorized with a liquid version of our chemistry. That's so brilliant. So how do you actually convince those hospitals to start using that product over something that they were already familiar with? Yeah, so that's kind of one of the kind of nice parts of how our product is that it's an additive. It's meant to be combined with what they're already doing. The challenge for us then isn't so much integrating it into their protocol. It's more on the kind of financial and budgetary side because we are an additive cost. You know, a lot of other products, they replace costs, right? We have a faster, cheaper way to do it. We'll replace what you're currently doing, but we are essentially a new budget line item for them. So we have the onus of proving to them that the additional money that they're gonna be spending is gonna be worth it. And we have a number of different value propositions that help justify that cost. I really wanna know what tips or advice you have for people regardless of what they're doing for coming up with a good value prop or even a pitch if that's more applicable to the situation. Yeah, I think that's one of the things that is probably so fundamental to a new product is you're not creating a product to find the solution, but you've already found the solution your product addresses that. And I think that it all starts with, really getting to know the people you're trying to help. So before we started developing the highlight wipes lid, we spent three months shadowing different environmental services workers at multiple hospitals. There's a lot of like little things in our device that most people wouldn't care about that an environmental services worker would care a lot about. For example, a lot of people complain right now that the way that the current lids work on the wipes and you pull a wipe out in the bottom of what kind of falls back through. And if they'll reopen the lid, thread the wipe through again and that's super annoying. So we actually have like our lid is automated. So you press a button and the wipe gets fed through with rollers and so it never falls back in. And we also have it fed up horizontally because people were complaining that when you pull the wipes out the bleach splashes on their clothes, on their face. Yeah, I think the main lesson that people should take from what you've shared with us is listen to your customers, look at what their pain points are and create a product that addresses those direct pain points. Yeah, I mean, I feel like nobody likes being, no one likes to feel like they're being sold too. And I think there's a big nuance between I want you to buy it versus I want to help you. And I think that the more you can, I mean, it goes even beyond just the direct problems that you're doing, like for example, because we've been in an infection prevention space for so long, sometimes people will come to us and ask us just general questions about disinfectants or part of their process. And we're always more than happy to help them with it because the more helpful you can be, everything is really based on trust and relationships. So tell us a little bit about how COVID-19 has affected kin-outs. Traditionally, we've always been focused on first response and medicine and health, but now we've sold and delivered product to sports stadiums and we're talking to public transits and we're talking to like, we've gotten so many inbound from people who need to clean their office buildings or their Airbnb property. And it's like just like even like one for cleaning cars. And it's just like a lot of different things that we hadn't previously thought we would be applicable to. Are you having trouble fulfilling all the orders? It sounds like there's a lot more orders than normal. I don't think many companies in the world were fully prepared for the scope and kind of scale of the current crisis. But we're, everyone's just trying their best. And also with like the hand sanitizer shortage, for example, our plant has the capability to produce that. So we actually just recently produced a batch of hand sanitizers, which we were able to provide at cost to a local community center. Have you been educating your community through Kinos on how to sanitize or disinfect, I guess would be a better word, properly at all? Yeah, I mean, we definitely watch a lot of friends reach out and that's why we kind of wrote that blog post on our website. And if you go to our website, www.kinos.us, we have a little banner at the top just so we can use directly that blog post. And really the goal there is just to, again, we're not, we don't really talk about our product at all. We're not trying to sell you anything, just literally just trying to find information on the right process and procedure to disinfect things correctly and just trying to help out. I just want to reiterate that everything you're doing is incredibly amazing. And it's important that we continue to support each other, even virtually during these challenging times. And the information you're putting out there is super helpful for everyone. So thank you so much. You were so informative. Is there anything else we should know before we end this interview? Yeah, I just want to say that we're starting to engage a little bit more with some of the local, state and federal government agencies to see how we can kind of expand that impact. So if there's anyone in the audience that's watching, that might be connected to some of those organizations we're always trying our best to have a broader reach with what we're doing. So feel free to reach out to us. That's also incredible. Thank you so much. And it is so important that we all support each other during these challenging times. So we all appreciate what you're doing tremendously. And it's been an absolute joy having you on the show, Jason. We've learned so much from your entrepreneurial journey and what you're doing today. So thank you so much for talking with us. Thanks for having me. This was fun. Thank you listeners for spending some time with us to learn more about Kinos. Visit kinos.us and follow them on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at Kinos Inc. Now that is all for this episode of School of Hustle. Keep up with us on all of our episodes on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or wherever you stream and download podcasts. And if you like what you heard, please leave a review, share with your friends and subscribe to our podcast. See you next time.