 Good morning and welcome to this morning's Europe is Our Future series, the first in a series of three events aimed at a business audience which will look at the opportunities for Irish companies in the continental European market. We at IIEA have teamed up with Enterprise Ireland to bring you this series of three events exploring the topic over the next few months. Over the course of the next 19 minutes we hope to highlight policy and practical insights for businesses looking to sell more into the continental market, or for those who wish to start doing so for the first time. We have got a great lineup of speakers to offer insights here to open the thornisher and minister for trade, among other things, will join us not virtually but pre-recordedly, to coin a phrase, to open proceedings. We will then be joined live by the president of Ireland, of one of Ireland's most successful companies over many decades, Neil Nocton of Glen Dimplex, to share his business experience of cracking the continental European market. We'll then be joined from Brussels by the European Commission's most senior civil servant on the functioning of Europe's single market and industrial policy. Kirsten Jörner is the head of the directorate general for internal market, industry, entrepreneurship and SMEs at the European Commission. After that we'll have a panel discussion, which is open to input from you, the audience, to put questions and make comments. The panel will include from Amsterdam, Hilda Gardner-Carville, who is CEO of Viola, Netherlands, and Lannigan Regional Director for the Eurozone at Enterprise Ireland, and will be rejoined by our keynote speaker Neil Nocton of Glen Dimplex. So without further ado, let me welcome the t-shirt after a fashion, who is going to, who gave us some pre-recorded remarks to kick the events off. Colleagues, if you could run that for us, please, thank you. Good morning, everyone. Theo Radker here, tonnage to the Minister for Enterprise Trade and Employment. It's a pleasure to open today's event. Europe is our future. You'll tap the potential of the single market for Irish enterprise. It's an opportunity to reiterate the government's message that EU markets can play a pivotal role in Ireland's future. It's almost 50 years since Ireland joined the European Economic Community, and it's nearly 20 years since we adopted the Euro. Our membership has had a significant influence transforming Irish society and our economy for the better. Now we have new challenges and new ambitions. As we navigate through the pandemic and Ireland's new trading relationship with the UK, we are always looking at ways to build resilience in the Irish economy and enterprise space, to sustain jobs and promote exports. Irish owned enterprise, the foundation of our economy, and exporting Irish companies are real drivers of growth. The challenges presented by Brexit have underlined the need to accelerate market diversification. While the UK will remain a huge market, higher growth in exports to other markets will reduce Irish owned companies dependence on any one market. As part of the government's ambition to grow a domestic SME sector, we're committed to increasing the number of new exporters. The EU and the Eurozone in particular is central to these export ambitions. And there are a number of reasons for this. Number one, the single market. The single market was designed to enable frictionless trade between member states. No customs, tariffs or other trade barriers with regulatory alignment across the region. With the population of over 440 million people, this is the biggest free trade area in the world and it's right in our doorstep. Number two, the single currency. Trading the single currency reduces transparency and removes costs related to foreign exchange and associated risks. These are all good for business and profitability. Our membership with the Eurozone gives access to a single currency area of 340 million people and an economy with combined GDP of 11 trillion euros. Number three, close proximity. Continental Europe is closer than ever. Proximity increases trade opportunities. Parties result of Brexit, the increased direct maritime links to France, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain and Portugal have brought us even closer. And fourth, the deepening positive relationship with the EU. Ireland and Irish products have a strong reputation in Europe. We're now net contributors to the budget and Irish business people are valued for their flexibility and friendly style and their products and services are recognised for their innovative edge. While the multinational sector has reached the benefits of the single market, Irish home businesses have yet to take full advantage of what is the biggest free trade area in the world. As you know, Enterprise Ireland is the government's organisation responsible for the development and growth of Irish enterprises in world markets. According to EI data for 2019, the value of client exports to the Eurozone as a whole was less than to the UK loan. This is despite the fact that the Eurozone population and Eurozone GDP is five times that of the UK. This is an untapped and immediate opportunity. The Eurozone markets are now central to EI's strategy. And in the two years since the launch of its Eurozone strategy in 2017, exports increased by over 33%. Irish companies to engage with Enterprise Ireland and avail of its supports. These include one-to-one advice from a team of market advisors in eight offices across the Eurozone, a world-class market research centre, financial assistance such as the market discovery grant and grad start to complement services provided by market advisors and also the enter the Eurozone training programme, a collaboration with the SMT, the top German business school based in Berlin. Before I conclude, I would like to highlight the significance of the Eurozone as a source of imports for Ireland. Although we have a strong focus on exports, the source of imports is also an important consideration for Irish business in terms of efficiency, cost and compliance. Trade is a two-way street and we currently have a significant trade surplus with the European Union. So trucks travelling to continental Europe with Irish products are often returning empty, increasing the cost of transport for exporters. With this in mind, I encourage Irish businesses to examine their supply chains to see where they can benefit from sourcing directly from the single market. I also urge companies to develop their relationship with mainland Europe. Trading with Britain is a natural step for many, considering our shared history, language and geography. But we should not miss out on the bigger markets beyond Britain. We are Irish and we are proud to be European as well. Engagement with our European neighbours brings many rewards, cultural, social and economic, and our membership of the EU has had a significant influence in transforming our country for the better. I believe deeper engagement will bring us even more rewards. On that note, I'd like to congratulate the IEA on your 30th anniversary and commend you for the excellent work you do in providing a forum to exchange a discussion and debate on European affairs. I encourage those who haven't yet become members to do so in order to stay up to date and to contribute to the discussion. We are ambitious for the development of Irish-owned enterprise abroad and the Eurozone is central to that ambition. We believe that with the relentless focus and innovation and collaboration with other EU member states, the future is bright for Irish companies. I'd like to thank Michael Collins, Director-General, Dan O'Brien Chief Economist and Dan Lannigan, Eurozone Regional Director and Enterprise Ireland for organising this forum here today. I'd particularly like to thank all the speakers who will follow me. These include Kirsten Jorna, Director-General for Internal Market Industry, Entrepreneurship and SMEs in the European Commission, Neil Lockton, Chairman of Glenn Implex and Hilda Gardner-Carville, CEO of the Odeon Netherlands. So thank you for taking the time to share your experience and expertise with us today. And most of all, thank you to Irish business people in the audience. Your hard work is the foundation of our economy. It's hugely appreciated and it's a privilege to work on your behalf as Minister for Enterprise. So enjoy the rest of the event and I hope next time we can do it in person. Thank you very much. Okay, thank you to the Thonister. Good opening remark, they're highlighting just the scale of the opportunities there. The biggest single market in the world on our doorstep, of which we're part of, 440 million people in the EU single market. Brexit has highlighted the importance of frictionless trade and being part of a single market. And also something that perhaps we talk about less than the Thonister highlighted there, the importance of sourcing from other parts of the single market. An issue that means particularly from eurozone countries that businesses that source from those areas don't have to worry about exchange rate risk, which is another upside of sourcing your inputs from from continental eurozone countries. Good. So with that having teed up by the Thonister, we look forward to our keynote speaker Neil Nocton from Glen Dimplex. Neil, many thanks for joining us and the floor is yours. Good morning and thank you Dan for the introduction. I'm delighted to have the opportunity to speak at this event today and I'm looking forward to the rest of the webinar. I would like to use some slides at the start of the presentation to explain a little bit about Glen Dimplex, the company and how we've come to where we are today. Also to explain our business and how we tackle business development. I will then get rid of the slides. I think we all have enough PowerPoint in our lives so we can see a few faces and I could share a few thoughts of my personal experiences over the years. Glen Dimplex is an Irish headquartered family owned international group, which is a world leader in intelligent electric heating as well as having a global presence in the consumer appliances, precision cooling and flame technology sectors. In 1973 Glen Electric was established by my father Martin Nocton with four colleagues in Neury Northern Ireland. It was what we would call a startup but startups weren't invented in the 1970s with only seven employees manufacturing oil filled radiators. It wasn't a great time to be starting a new business. The troubles in Northern Ireland were just kicking off and there's a worldwide energy crisis and people were being implored to turn off their heating. In 1976 Harold Wilson, the British Prime Minister, announced the end of off-peak electricity. Although this didn't come to pass it was enough to send Dimplex spirally into receivership. Glen managed to acquire Dimplex, a company eight times its size, was a leveraged buyer before we even had them and a brand leader in electric heating. The ambition of the young Glen Electric was confirmed and the Glen Dimplex group was born. Since the group's foundation in 1973 it has been very entrepreneurial continuing to grow organically and through acquisitions of much-loved brands across the world. In the early 1980s the group was concerned that its business was heating therefore too seasonal and this led to the acquisition of more few Richards and other consumer product brands. In early 1990 my dad was approached by Siemens the German industrial powerhouse. They informed them that the supervisory board had decided that they would either become number one or two in the world or exit the category. They assembled portfolio brands in a strategic roadmap to achieve market leadership and Dimplex was part of that basket. When my dad refused to sell they said he must then execute their perfect strategy. Over the following decade Glen Dimplex acquired the Siemens owned heating businesses in Germany, Norway and Canada and other companies in the Siemens playbook Oler and France, Chromalux in Canada and Novo in Norway. We achieved the German's goal of becoming the biggest player in the global market. Over the years other acquisitions followed strengthening our position in consumer products precision cooling and flame. Following the Brexit vote we were concerned at our dependence on the UK and actively acquired companies in the US, Australia and Ireland. We have a wide reach in Europe across all our businesses. We have manufacturing plants, sorry I'm missing a slide here, sorry, we have a wide range across all parts of our business. We have manufacturing in our deep facilities in Ireland, France, Germany, Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK as well as offices and distribution partners or networks in several other EU member states. This slide shows our location of our main operations but our sales reach extends far beyond this with customers in over 75 countries around the world. Just go back. Standing on the shoulders of what has gone before we see we have great opportunities in four key areas. But what holds us together is our purpose being a leader in the transition to a sustainable world. We believe we have a meaningful role in helping the consumers as they transition to this new world without compromising quality or comfort. A lot of our products are about finding solutions for our customers to allow them to transition to a sustainable world. I'll just spend a few minutes explaining these categories and give you a flavor of the products. In the heating and ventilation space we have a range of low carbon products and solutions mainly electrical for predominantly residential and like commercial buildings. We have pride ourselves in being the leading manufacturer and supplier of electric heating solutions in Europe and North America. Our cooling portfolio provides high precision machine and process cooling solutions for medical applications such as MRI and CT scanners and industrial applications including extraction, laser cutting, machine tooling and the food and beverage industry. We use the latest in refrigeration technology to have the lowest carbon footprint for these systems. Our cooling systems are used to manufacture the precursors of the MCR COVID-19 tests and to store the vaccines at ultra low temperatures. We also offer a wide range of appliances for the home including kitchen appliances and audio systems. In today's pandemic parlance these products have been deemed essential. We make products to prepare and store food and keep you entertained. We have a range of flame technologies, wood, electric, gas fueled for heating and decorative purposes in residential and commercial buildings. We give the consumer choices as they transition away from coal fires and other fossil fuels to more sustainable options without compromising the quality, comfort or ambience of a focal point in their home. I'd now like to talk about how we go about business development in Glenn Dimplex. We have recently established a new group business development function to focus on delivering long-term sustainable growth looking at future opportunities five, ten years and beyond. This function is adopting a group-wide approach looking at all four technology areas focusing on international market development, key trends and new business concepts, technology, external affairs and marginal and acquisitions. We are aiming to identify opportunities for growth in our home markets and scale in new territories. We have recognized the importance of strategic business development in terms of creating sustainable growth and building a secure future for our group, which is why we have deliberately invested in a dedicated team. This is a small but dynamic team with a varied skill set. Most importantly it has a clear direction, top level support within the group and strong collaboration channels with our global business units, so it can focus on next generation value creation. It is a small team for now, but as it proves its value and delivers impact, we will scale it up accordingly. We are looking at new business opportunities globally. However, as an Irish and quarter business with significant operations and business in the EU already, Europe will be a key target for us for business development. One of the main tools we have developed to aid with international market development is a funnel, which allows us to assess markets in a robust and consistent way, systemize how we prioritize opportunities and make sure that we are set up for the best chances of success by identifying the most attractive markets and ruling out low potential markets early on in the process. The funnel includes a market attractiveness model, which pulls data in from a variety of sources and allows us to assess macro trends and economic strength of a market, as well as lend-implex business suitability. It identifies where we have permission to play and how we can win. As I already mentioned, given our existing footprint in Europe today, in Ireland, France, Germany, the Nordics, growth in the EU, both our home markets and new markets will be a key priority. This slide shows some of the initial attractiveness scoring of countries in Eastern Europe, which we have put through our model. The results are very promising in terms of highlighting the attractiveness of the EU for doing business. Our first protocol will be the Baltic States and Poland. In addition, there are several macro trends which are particularly developed in the EU, which are very favorable for our business. For example, the drive for green growth and decarbonisation, which is gaining ever more focus from governments, policy makers, businesses, consumers and customers alike. For all us here today, the past year has been like none we have ever experienced before. As businesses and individuals, we have had to respond to unprecedented challenges and are continuing to have to do so. Brexit, COVID-19, global supply chain problems, commodity shortages and many other challenges have forced businesses to act differently, be agile and think more creatively. Several pressing issues have been brought to the fore and none more so than the climate crisis and the need to take substantial and meaningful action now. Throughout the EU, COVID recovery plans are intrinsically linked with green growth and the just transition to a more sustainable world. This comes on top of the work that was already in motion through the Green Deal and realising Europe's ambition to become the first climate neutral continent. This plays right into a sweet spot for Glen Dimplex. As a leading manufacturer of low carbon heating appliances, we have solutions to solve the challenges of decarbonising buildings and we are well equipped to help our customers and partners transition to a more sustainable world. We need to seize this opportunity to affect lasting change. As part of this, we will need to look beyond our current ways of doing business and explore new markets, new partnerships, business concepts and solutions. Europe provides very accessible opportunities for us and many other Irish businesses right in our doorstep. However, some caution is necessary. Even though the EU's single market is a common market, from country to country, the market requirements are different and it certainly isn't the case that Irish products and solutions can simply be lifted and sold directly in other parts of the EU. For example, on screen you can see two two kilowatt fan heaters, one of our simplest products. Both are exactly the same in terms of functionality and specification, but different in design due to different market preferences. Some customisation or localisation is needed and a strong understanding of the target market is needed by all Irish businesses looking to export or expand abroad. I will now get rid of the PowerPoint and give you some of my own personal experience. If I can look to Asia where they put a particular emphasis on developing the personal relationship before business even starts. They do this so that when something does go wrong, an international trade, something always will go wrong, there is a personal relationship to fall back on and get the issues resolved amicably. Developing personal skills and network, developing personal relationships and networking are skills that can be learnt and should be considered. Making conversation about topics other than business is an excellent way of breaking down personal barriers and we are fortunate that we are actually more familiar with our European cousins than we think. I first met Anne Lanigan when she was the Enterprise Ireland director in Japan. I was trying to make conversation with potential partners but what did I know about Sumo wrestling or Japanese baseball? Through the 6-1 news, we know that Mario Draghi is the Prime Minister of Italy and Angela Merkel is the Chancellor of Germany. We know about La Liga in Italy, the contest between Barcelona and Real Madrid and the many European golfers and the PGA tours. Most of us know that Toulouse beat La Rochelle last Saturday and Manchester United went down to Villarreal and Warsaw just last Wednesday. That gives us plenty of fodder for conversation over a beer, coffee or glass of vino. The Irish also benefit from having an excellent reputation in Europe as an open and friendly nation with whom it is easy to build trusted relationships. This gives us a distinct advantage when looking at new business opportunities in Europe. When you can safely, get out there, get immersed in the markets, get to know your partners, dig deep. I tell my business development team that I will not be happy on a research trip if I don't have a waste of time meeting. I will not know we have dug deep enough if I don't have a wasteful meeting. Formalize your business development function. We are fortunate in Glenn Dimplex with our scale, we can have a small team. But every business should identify who is responsible for this role in your organization and make sure they can carve out some time in their week to dedicate to this job. Make sure they identify the highest potential opportunities and focus on these markets and sectors. Irish businesses also have access to the unrivaled expertise of Enterprise Ireland. Over the years, I and Glenn Dimplex has greatly benefited from the support of Enterprise Ireland, both in terms of tapping into the wealth of knowledge and expertise they have, as well as availing of funding opportunities for market research activities. Enterprise Ireland are absolute professionals in their field and real ambassadors for Irish business who are here to provide tactical and strategic advice in many markets around the world and at all stages of potential new market development. I can't recommend them highly enough and I'm extremely grateful for the support we have received over the years. In Enterprise Ireland, each and every person wants us to succeed and I believe this is because they are true patriots. If I could just finish with one final message. In 1919, the first doll made the mansion house's home. Two years later, in 1921, the Anglo-Irish Treaty was ratified in the same location. At the very first meeting of our new parliament, the very first message to the free nations that were on set this. Ireland is the gateway to the Atlantic. Ireland, the last outpost of Europe to the west. The point upon which the great trade routes between east and west converge. Why, 100 years later, have we forgotten the message on the legacy that the matriarchs and patriarchs of our nation left us? Because as a small island nation, not only do we value international relationships, we depend upon them. Multinationals have taken heed and have established in Ireland as a bulkhead, not just for Ireland and the UK, but to maximize their opportunities in all of Europe and for many of them, the entire EMEA region. Thank you for listening and I look forward to listening to the director general and engaging in the discussion with Anne Hildegard and Dan later in this webinar. Many thanks for that, Neil. Just before hunting over to Kirsten, could I just a quick follow-up? Your prioritization of Poland to the Baltics. Any? All right, Dan, I've lost you. I think you're back. Did I freeze there? Yes, you did. Sorry, you've got as far as Poland, the politics of Poland. Yeah, I was just interested, Neil, as to what on what basis you folks are prioritizing that sort of northeast market in Europe, the Baltics and Poland? Well, we've identified it through our model, that they have high potential and that comes from a variety of factors. We are presently looking for partners, we're looking for potential acquisitions and we believe that it is their country and regions with the right dynamics and that as part of the EU, very accessible to us. Although we may speak different languages, we have the same vocabulary when we're talking about business and priorities are key deliverables. Great, look, we look forward to digging deeper into those things during the Q&A session and having questions and comments from the audience as well. Kirsten Jorn, good morning and thank you for joining us from Brussels. Kirsten has a wide range of experience in the European Commission in a number of roles and is currently now the Director General at the Directorate General dealing with the internal market, industrial policy, something that is becoming increasingly relevant in a world where industrial policy is back in fashion. It was out of fashion for a long time, now back in fashion, so particularly good to have Kirsten and her insights to hear what the Commission is thinking about for the internal market as we hopefully exit the pandemic. Kirsten, the floor is yours. Thank you very much and I would like to thank the Institute and the European and the Enterprise Ireland actually for inviting me. I know that this is a very special year for the Institute because you will be 30 and my sincere congratulations. We very much appreciate how you've managed over all these years to put Europe single market in the middle of the debate also in Ireland. I would also like to underline the impressive achievements of Enterprise Europe who's been successfully coordinating the work among Irish SMEs and connecting them to the broader SME community in the single market. I just want to quote one number from a recent survey 100% satisfaction of the SMEs partnering with you, satisfaction about the advisory services. I think that's a very remarkable achievement. Thank you for that as well. SMEs are the backbone of our single market economy and as we're now in the 15th months of the economy of the pandemic, there is no doubt that that has been a hit and SMEs have suffered quite a lot. Our recent surveys say that the number of SMEs has fallen by 1.3% in 2020 and employment is estimated to have fallen by 1.7% which means 1.4 million jobs lost in SMEs. We must now ensure and help and support SMEs to embark on the road to recovery and as swiftly as possible and also to be able to face the challenges of the green and digital transition. Last year the Commission adopted its SME strategy and we already launched ambitious measures to help SMEs read the benefit of the twin transition. Just as an example I'm thinking of the digital innovation hubs that support the digitalization of SMEs where you have a testing ground as well or our network of sustainability advisors that are provided through the Enterprise Europe network. I'd like to say we're now on the update of our industrial strategy which we presented a couple of weeks ago because in this strategy we even go further. In fact we adopted this strategy because we needed to draw some lessons from the pandemic and I would like to zoom in on three lessons. The first is that the single market we must reinforce it to be the ultimate engine of our long-term recovery. It's the fabric of Europe's strength and the previous speaker Neil I only heard you intervene at the end but you very much highlighted that as well. It makes you speak a common language when you talk about the economy and your projects but what we saw in the crisis is that under seven it can come under sudden and heavy disruptions and the seam could be undone very quickly. In the early days we witnessed border closures, supply disruptions, lack of predictability, fragmentation and a bit of it is still around today when we look at the you know free movement of workers and different testing requirements. We're there to we're in the process of repairing it but still we can still see that. We need to uphold the free movement of goods and services of workers and we need to prepare the single market for a possible next crisis. This is why the commission announces now to propose a single market emergency instrument which would lay down the protocols for how to act together to make sure that not only free movement is sustained but also that we can maybe how we address shortages in certain products should that arise again. We will also mobilize important investment to support SMEs. We also announced to enhance our work on the alternative resolution schemes and we want to address payment delays and also measures to deal with solvency risks because we see a solvency specter coming up now in the coming months. The second main lesson from the pandemic is that we need to tackle Europe's strategic dependencies. The crisis has revealed our over dependency on third countries for supply of critical goods and that limits our responsibility to reply to the shocks. Remember the masks, remember the ventilators. A lot of SMEs did a great job in just shifting their production quickly to produce protective equipment, coats, masks, shoes or sanitizers and I really want to thank everybody in the room who contributed to that as well but we can do better. What we will do is to analyze and address possible current and possible future strategic dependencies both on technological the microprocessor story for example and industrial scale but we want of course also to safeguard the open and trade based EU economy. Strategic dependencies can have a particular heavy impact on SMEs. This is why both the Europe Network, Europe and Enterprise Europe Network and the European cluster cooperation which includes 10 irish clusters can play a crucial role. They can assist SMEs to address disruptions and vulnerabilities and increase their resilience by diversifying suppliers connecting to new local and cross-border partners. The European cluster network 1000 clusters in total was very very active in the in the pandemic in particular in the beginning. The clusters met every morning at a real fixed time and and looked at what was happening and how to act and they were they were the most agile actors actually in tackling the the early issues in the pandemic. The third main lesson from the pandemic is that we need to accelerate the green and digital transition. 2020 showed that the business case and the consumer awareness for green and digital transition is stronger than ever. In partnership with industry public authorities social partners and other stakeholders we want to co-create transition pathways for the industrial ecosystems. We have 14 industrial ecosystems in the single market and which range from energy intensive to tourism to retail and we want to make sure that all partners are aligned and that all tools and means from different level European national regional are brought together to to go through that transition together. We are currently working non-stop on the tourism pathway transformation pathway because that's the ecosystem that has been hit really bad and they need they're almost in a kind of reset button situation so we focus a lot of effort there at the moment and and also ministers everybody is engaged. Other relevant ecosystems also very hit was textile but then there's also energy intensive industries where it's a question of survival to be able to do the screen transition. So this is where we will be reaching out. The business case for green and digital transition is also very relevant for Ireland. Further effort to decarbonize the country and the the production will make a significant difference in particular when it comes to retrofitting buildings transportation sector and incentives to promote the low carbon economy. On the digital side of things obviously Ireland has a very strong leadership when it comes to the integration of digital technology in SMEs e-commerce public services and digital public services for businesses. Still I think there are opportunities for improving digital skills which remain below EU average in for e-business processes such as supply chain management enterprise resource planning customer relations management all of this would help to enhance SME productivity. We see in Ireland there's actually a kind of two-speed digital economy of the very big companies very sophisticated and then you have the smaller SMEs where the rate of adoption and adoption of digital tools is still lagging a bit but it's not only about the how it's also about the what it's also about the how and what we are looking for and I already mentioned it when I talked about the transition pathways is a collaborative approach and so whilst we want to address these three burning issues resilience of the single market strategic dependencies and accelerating green and digital transition we also want to look at how we do it. We want to use a more cooperative approach and we think that that's the only one that will be that will deliver this is why we will continue to support new industrial alliances and strategic areas and these alliances that bring together all the players they pull resources to have scale and impact if I look at hydrogen as an example so it was the hand in the egg question if I invest in electrolyzers should I do it because I'm not sure I will have a customer who uses it if I'm a steel company should I invest in hydrogen-based process to green my steel if I'm not sure that I will have enough hydrogen coming in so what the alliances do they bring it all together and on hydrogen it's the you know electrolyzers well I have enough renewable so we have the renewable energy producers we have the electrolyzers and there's the question the hydrogen it's it's produced but it's not close to the factory gate so how do I get it to the factory gate that's the storage and the transport and then the question is then is the industrial use the appliance and who take it that's for example the green steel or the cement industry but that's even that is not enough because then you have to think these new green products there's new green steel who will use it where's the miemann side for this product so that's where big steel users like the car industry come in and that's the beauty of the alliance it brings everybody together and they all start at the same time so we build the supply chain at the same time it worked for batteries I'm sure it will work for hydrogen and it may work for others like the microprocessors as I already mentioned the of course and there are some irish participants in these alliances but their scope for improving irish participation for example at all levels of the battery value chain inner energy manages the industrial aspects of this alliance on behalf of the commission and is ready to help here and give advice we also support member states efforts to pool resources via what we call important projects of common interest it says and they function in areas where the market alone cannot deliver the breakthrough innovation and there's also the possibility to blend it on top of it with support from the EU budget on hydrogen we expect you know three four five maybe more it says and you see it in all the recovery plans of the member states that they are reserving money for this purpose we're also reviewing the state aid rules for it says and including with a wish to enhance the participation of SMEs in and facilitate this in such in such projects I believe these projects present a great business opportunity for SMEs and I would also encourage Ireland to explore participation there are telling examples where Ireland is involved in Ipses for example the Celtic interconnector which enables Ireland and France to exchange electricity providing Ireland's only direct energy connection to continental Europe I also have in mind the northern lights project that's a co2 transport project which involves Ireland Belgium the Netherlands France and Sweden so in conclusion what we want is a more SME friendly Europe because it's worthy SMEs that we will be able to make these really big transformations I'd like to underline that in these times of hardship the pandemic has also created momentum for our single market economy and for SMEs in that economy we will as the commission continue to support the involvement of SMEs in all industrial ecosystems supply chains and collaborative projects we will also continue to support a prompt payment culture and an SME friendly regulatory environment the newly proposed one-in-one-out approach is in the way we regulate at EU level will help us to further minimize burns when legislation is proposed and take better impact better assess in a better way and take account of the cumulative impact of legislation and that's very relevant when we move forward on the climate package on the 14th of July the commission will propose a package of a little dozen of texts to to create the regulatory framework for the minus 55 ambition in 2030 and we will look very carefully at the overall coherence of this and I have a big team in DG Grow also engaged on this Ireland has shown that it has the capacity and the agility to take up these unprecedented challenges and to ensure that SMEs in Ireland are future proof we want to help I hope that your projects catch the blue wind the blue single market economy wind of Europe and I thank you very much for the attention thank you thank you Christian for joining us I wonder if I could just follow up with one question you mentioned the regulatory burden and the importance for the commission of the one-in-one-out tactic to ensure that the cumulative effect of regulation is not too burdensome for businesses for the companies that are joining us today thinking of penetrating the European market despite being a single market different countries do have different levels of regulation do you see from a commission perspective some countries being much more heavily regulated than others in general I suppose the southern European countries tend to have higher levels of regulation than northern European countries is that a factor in terms of integrating the European market I don't think you can generalize in the way you do it there is I would say there are certain sectors where member states whether from north or southeast or west feel that they need more control than others health for example but also persons so what we created is the single market enforcement task force and the single market enforcement task force is the commission with all the member states and we're looking at the pain points where you have regulation which you know even may be compatible with EU rules but still is a pain point and we've engaged work for example on the recognition of professional qualifications where we see that member states have very heavy X under rules and they're not the same anywhere so before people can exercise their their jobs and we and we're now we listed them we came to several hundred of them and we're going through one by one and member states have pledged to reduce them and to because they serve no purpose they and digitization will play a big role on this so that's one plank we also look at business services because business services take architects now what we know is that our buildings are responsible for 40 percent of our CEO to emissions that's why we have the renovation way to renovate our buildings and to make sure that they're more energy efficient how to do this I mean it's technology that will help now if you need you need architects who know and engineers who know how to deal with that and spread the information however if you look across Europe you know if an architect if an Irish architect wants to work in another country he has or she has to take a new insurance that's stupid you know if you have an insurance for professional both so we're looking at these things and here in the update of the industry strategy we propose to work through standards not regulation standards and to develop standards for for this type of service and then we could go back to member states and say you know if that architect follows the standard the European agreed standard then there is no need to ask all kinds of information all kind of other you know insurance and other things so that's how we try in a pragmatic way to to make it easier but rather than come from the regulatory and the compliance angle we come from what is really hampering business angle and to have a conversation about that because we need our companies to invest and if it's too difficult the business case investors will not come in so we have an interest in removing these things thank you I know you need to leave us in about two minutes but one final question if I may the rules around government subsidizing businesses the state aid rules were suspended during the pandemic given the scale of the shock for businesses and the economy there is some concern that different countries have more capacity to help their businesses and this is causing a an unevenness and not a level playing field in the single market do you see a pathway back to a leveling that playing field back to the state aid rules being applied I mean we didn't suspend all state aid rules we had the temporary state aid framework which was now prolonged which helps to keep liquidity in the companies because that's we wanted companies to survive because that means they can pay their workers and their employees who are highly skilled it's very sad that we lost as I said before at least one 1.4 million jobs in the SMEs but it's still important it was important to stabilize that because that's the only way you can reinvest to reignite after this pandemic and it was not only the member states that we said you know here's the temporary framework and go for it but we also did is to support with shore the new instrument the unemployment short term unemployment schemes you know when the pandemic started there were I think only 12 member states who had a short term unemployment schemes and now there are in all member states short term unemployment schemes which we back up for the member states with the shore and I think there are now 19 member states who have been supported their unemployment schemes via shore to retain the staff and the incredible workforce that we have in Europe so there was a reason to do this is this now unleveling the playing field I think it maintained it maintained the status quo and we are now reviewing our state aid rules at the moment in order to have a good level playing field for for this so I I see that the challenge that you mentioned but I also see that we are very actively addressing it and as I said these Ipses on cross-border projects that we see and the hydrogen the batteries it means that the collective effort benefits collectively as well so that's another way of creating a level playing field where everybody can can participate and these these big supply chains future supply chains of the future batteries and hydrogen and microprocessors probably as well cloud coming up they are they are creating a level playing field in themselves because thank you for joining us this morning from Brussels to to give us that those perspectives from from the European Commission thank you very much for your time thank you good morning so let's turn to our panel discussion this is a Q&A session you can contribute if you go to the bottom of your screen you'll see a Q&A function you can put in a comment or question there you can identify yourself that would be helpful you can aim the question at any of our three speakers on the panel or none if that's your preference so let me introduce the panel Neil you already know joining us from the Netherlands is Hildegard McCarville Hildegard is the CEO of the Netherlands and she's also the non-executive director of the of that business's Irish operation as well as that she is the vice president of the Ireland Netherlands business association so extensive experience in in that market over the Netherlands and also Ann Lannigan joins us Ann runs the Enterprise Ireland's operation the Eurozone she before joining Enterprise Ireland she's almost two decades experience in the private sector and within Enterprise Ireland as Neil mentioned has experience in Japan a particularly difficult market to crack for anyone who knows about doing business in in Japan and she was also head of the Brexit unit which I suppose gave gave her a very deep insight into the nature of barriers to trade between markets and frictions in in different markets and how important they can be for business good okay so let's go to the Netherlands start with with you Hildegard and some thoughts on your experience coming from Ireland and running a business in another member state thoughts experiences takeaways that you think might be relevant to our audience yep thank you Dan good morning everyone and I'm delighted to be here and yes I think I'm slightly in the unique position given that I have been a client of Enterprise Ireland when I was working for an Irish organization I have been a person arriving in Schiphol with the task of growing a business not having a clue of the country the market the language or their culture and at the other end I am now the person that probably Irish companies are approaching maybe with their service offerings so I'll try and share what knowledge and experience I have with you and hopefully it's insightful the first thing I would say as a person practically and the Dutch are practical so I'll start that way and when I first landed in the Netherlands the first thing that I did was actually create a network so again the organizations that were in Ireland what were the Dutch branch of that that gives you a base of professional companies peers somebody to actually talk to and to understand everything that is not seen so four percent of the world doesn't matter and everything else is emotions feelings culture what does that actually mean you gain a huge insight into that and I think Enterprise Ireland are one of our key partners also in the Ireland Netherlands Business Association and I find that really useful so business chambers really appropriate that way or institute of directors or peer groups like that the second thing I would say then is really also to use I think it's been mentioned quite a few times today digital I mean Covid has really advanced that from a perspective so we all have Google translate LinkedIn translates into the language that you normally write in and if you use the sales navigator tools there you can find a huge amount about the markets who you can connect with and what you can do so there's a lot of practical research that can be done the third thing I would say and building upon what Neil had presented was that market research you know Neil you talked about sports so I'll do a Roy Keane you know plan to fail you know or fail or fail to plan plan to fail so I think really understand what market are you going for Europe is a huge market each country is different what is the product offering that you're giving what are the unique situations of that country so legislation the broad legislation is the same we know we have the Green Deal in Europe we know we're going to carbon neutrality and and to sustainability but each country will vary so I will take my own business we're environmental services company in the Netherlands 20 percent or quarter of the bit the land is actually below sea level that means that water supply and drinking water and wastewater is regulated by a specific body of the the Dutch government that's very different in France and in Belgium where we can provide those services as a as a private company so understand the nuances the differences understand how the market works what are the local nuances if you're in the the food market knowing that you know tastes very more sugar maybe in in southern Europe versus northern Europe in relation to the distribution channels is it done by partners who to partner with and then I think that goes back to finding maybe through enterprise Ireland or as I did maybe just a local advisor to give me a background to understand what is the market what is the regulation through the players because obviously you're going to walk in with your value proposition but there are competitors in the market already so knowing them knowing their position and knowing as as Neil had said Siemens gave a huge opportunity for his own organization knowing what their position is and being able to step in and step out can be a platform for you to grow and grow rapidly in relation to where it is so that's the first thing and then in relation to I would say the Netherlands per se is itself I think it's a really great market to do our first trial in everyone speaks English the Dutch are very practical it's they are used to being a small supposed small landmass and having to adapt in order to to grow but they are you know the 17th richest economy in the world they are the second largest exporter of agriculture in the world after the US despite their you know their size so they're a brilliant trade trading partner and also if it works there it'll work anywhere else you know and in terms of style and approach they're very direct my personal experience my first few sales meetings were very short and swift I hadn't done my homework well enough I learned a lot in relation to it and they want references expertise proof that you can do what you do and and knowing that can make a valuable can lead to much greater sales and and much quicker turn around in relation to to where it is I would also say that based on what Kirsten said as Irish people were you quite unique or we have a lot of competencies in being able to collaborate and cooperate it comes naturally to us and the same also within the Dutch context so that is our super strength I think we should use it and be able to to take advantage from that going to the point on value proposition be very clear what it is what can you offer compared to your competitors is it a product differentiation is it a cost optimization is it being able to address a need in the market for example in the Netherlands there's a shortage of technical skills can you fill that void that people can't it's also an aging workforce which means people will outsource more in relation to where it is can you help with changing legislation the offering from Neil it rang true to me a lot Neil it's a bit like our own business so that whole thing of being able to address the decarbonization or the need to reduce energy consumption what is that how do you have it and being very clear what you need position is to the market and then finally when you approach the client or their target client know your client so again I go back to LinkedIn I can't tell you the amount of times I've been approached by companies wanting to pitch me a clean tech solution or a service offering and for example in relation to maybe sensors smart sensors for for waste bins the only in the Netherlands is not in that market if they had just looked at our website or looked at my LinkedIn profile they would have known it and that goes you know the first contact is is key the first impression is key and lazy shoddy work is not as you know it's not useful to anyone so I would say just do your homework be practical and trial and error for sure and but I really leverage the networks leverage enterprise Ireland leverage the equivalent of Ireland Netherlands Business Association the country you're going for and do your homework. Thank you Hill deGarde very much to the point just a follow-up question if I may in terms of an Irish company maybe looking at accessing getting into the Dutch market for the first time would you recommend people considering a partner a local partner or do you think that the frictions in the market are such that companies could just access the market directly seek distributors etc there where would there is no right or wrong answer even if I take my my own business in in relation to it within the districating market that we operate in we teamed up with it with a Dutch pension fund to be able to capture some of the market for all the acquisitions we were doing we brought the technical expertise they brought the local culture and flavor in relation to and we did that because we knew you know that wouldn't be successful to acquire it in others we can go directly to the market ourselves and be able to do it and for others we will team up with advisors or consultants maybe to understand better the needs especially when it comes to public tenders not the needs of the market so there's no right or wrong it again goes back to what's the product offering or the service offering who's the end client and how is the market structured at that stage so even in our own business we would take three different approaches okay great good I see the questions are coming in or not we're getting a bit slow people may not have had that extra cup of coffee to get going but please do if you have questions to any of the panelists or more general questions please do put them no such thing as a stupid question so any thought you might have and I might come to you for sort of an overview of different markets but let me just share an anecdote Hildegard about the Netherlands many years ago chaired an event with politicians and business people a private event in the Hague and during the course of the event they all started shouting at each other and I thought I've lost control of this this is a disaster at the end of the meeting they I said what just happened here and it was they just this is normal way the Dutch have a bad discussing things they're extremely forceful direct and blunt with each other in a way that we would consider to be bad mannered but for them not at all it's just just the way of doing things so I suppose being attuned to those sort of cultural sensitivities in different countries is is always important for doing business as well as any sort of interaction that one has but I just thought I'd share that one and going taking a helicopter view as you do looking across the Eurozone any of the points that have been raised so far in particular and is there difficult question is is there one or a number of countries that might be easier for Irish companies to start with if they're moving into continental Europe thanks Don and good morning to everybody thank you for joining us and I'll start with your second question and we do I guess see the Benelux as a gateway to Europe and you know Hildegard kind of outlined it there particularly the Netherlands and because they are traders they've been trading for the last 400 years so and they really understand trade and they understand business and I think that directness actually is very useful because it's difficult sometimes to get a meeting in the Netherlands but when you get it you know they're interested and so I would say it is a good starting point and it's our biggest market for our client companies in the Eurozone at the moment and unbelievably really because it isn't the biggest population or the biggest GDP and but I wouldn't I guess forget about the other markets either and we have eight offices across six countries in the Eurozone so we have in the Netherlands we have in Belgium we have two offices in France two in Germany and then we have an office in Madrid and Spain and Milan and Italy and those are the six countries that really we see as most opportunity for our client companies at the moment you know there are 19 countries in the Eurozone but they're the six that really demonstrate the most opportunity in terms of our exports at the moment and just you know you ask about what are the things that maybe have resonated so far things people said I think for me just focusing in on the challenges I would see that there are three key challenges for Irish companies in entering and scaling in the Eurozone and the first one is really actually about that ambition the awareness the familiarity and the recognition that actually there really is huge opportunity here and a number of people have referred to it and referred to the fact that our multinationals have taken such advantage of access to the single market whereas Irish enterprise Irish owned enterprise probably still hasn't done that and we are seeing great growth in our exports but we need to do an awful lot more and you know our exports and when I say Irish our client exports into the Eurozone are two-thirds our client exports into the UK despite the fact that the Eurozone is five times the size and I think that these are the kind of dimension that earlier and so we're really only scratching the surface and that opportunity I hate to see lost opportunity and it's sitting there and the event today and the series that we're running is you know an attempt to try and address that and I hope we will encourage more companies to look at it the second thing is sales and marketing and you know both Neil and Hildegard really looked at this and I suppose as Irish people I think sometimes we see sales and marketing as this black art and it's not a black art it's actually quite it's you know it's a process really you know and Neil talked about the funnel and the kind of marketing process where you started the big funnel and narrowed down into okay so where do you want to focus in you know you need to qualify strong leads there needs to be a sales approach and actually I'm an engineer by background and I find that the sales process is actually an engineering process it's not an art at all and so I guess we really need to focus in on on those skills and of course enterprise Ireland is a number of supports to help with that but really as a company I think that you know you need to bring in the skills if you don't have sales and marketing skills they're very very important skills in the same way as you need to have a CFO you should have a sales director and if you're a small company it's somebody as Neil pointed out that maybe he's given you know that role as part of the role but very important to see the importance of that and then the third thing is language and certainly in the eurozone language is very important if you if you want to sell you should be able to speak the language of your customer if you don't you're on the back foot from the beginning and there are ways to deal with that you could if you're recruiting in a sales and marketing person bring one in who has language and you know we have actually grad start program which allows you to to recruit a graduate doesn't have to be a fresh graduate that can be out of college for a while and with the language and if they have a language relevant to your business then we support it by up to 50% of the salary for each of two years so you know there are ways of dealing with that they would be the three challenges I would see great thanks Adam let's come back to those and Neil I'd be very interested to get you some thoughts on on on the different markets but let's go to some of the questions that we've had from the audience so far two on Germany one very specific which may need a little bit of follow-up um Robert Rowlett asks do any of the panelists have a suggestion for an Irish SME considering entering the German market so far so good but here's the specialized part they are involved in specializing engineering solutions for road maintenance I'm not sure any of the panelists are qualified to answer that but that is a one question from Robert Rowlett so and you may good I'll jump to you on that Ralph Lissick who is who runs the German Irish Chamber of Commerce says we see more and more Irish companies asking for support for their supply chain is there any specific funding for this so you know supply chains despite the huge disruption of COVID have held up in most cases remarkably well international trade is as rebound rapidly but there are issues in some supply chain and so Ralph is interested to know is are there any specific support measures around supply chain issues and again and I think that's probably directed at you but if any of the other panelists have any thoughts on either of those but I'm back to you for both of those yes so I guess I'm starting with the question around the German market and we have an office in in Düsseldorf a large office in Düsseldorf we also have an office in Munich so and if you are an enterprise Ireland client then our market advisors there can certainly help you with that but depending on how advanced you are as an exporter you might like to have a look to go to our market research center which is you know a state-of-the-art market research center which we have now because of of restrictions we have provided virtual access to all of our databases in there and reports in there and that might be a starting point but certainly we're already working with companies in that space and our market advisors across the eurozone are experienced in working with clients in particular niches and I would have to say that most of our clients are in the niche Ireland you know our SMEs offer niche offerings well other than mass offerings and so that's something that we are you know very experienced in and very happy to have a conversation about flash and but but you know I'm sure there are opportunities and the second question about the supply chain and I'm not I'm not quite sure I understand the question is it support for companies who are finding it difficult to bring product in on their supply chain and and if that's the question we are certainly encouraging our clients to to look at their supply chains and to actually have a supplier management process so you know it's not good enough to have one supplier for a critical part for example there are bottleneck parts and we do have a competitiveness and section in enterprise Ireland that can provide support in looking at that and looking at your supply chain and and but of course you would need to be an enterprise Ireland client for that okay and Ralph if you're out there you want to follow up on that just put another question through Neil I was fascinated by the geographical difference in preference for heating fans some other box others prefer you know is there any particular reason for that and then a question which you might have a view on from Patrick Torrencans can we expect a shift in sourcing closer to home now that the COVID pandemic and other recent events have shown the vulnerability of global supply chains now that's an issue that's come up a lot people at the Institute have been raising that particularly in terms of you know the very long distance supply chains to Asia how has Glenn Dimplex considered you know this issue of long distance supply chains from a sustainability perspective on transport reliability of those supply chains chip issues with with Taiwan thoughts on on vulnerability of your supply chains and how you've been thinking about that well I think you know the year we've lived through has raised a lot of issues on this one of many there was a mass exodus of industry to the Far East in the 90s they they exported deflation to our countries however I always believe that low wages is not a sustainable competitive advantage once industry starts moving there you know the standard of living increases I was told that China had an inexhaustible supply of labor but they didn't we're seeing you know on the on the core economics of it before we get into difficulties getting containers and the cost of getting containers the actual wage rates in China are accelerating dramatically so then you throw into that the mix of the supply chain disruption I was promised in January it was it was only temporary at that stage our contracted rate was for $950 for a 40 foot container from the Far East to Rotterdam that went up to nearly 10 000 in January and but I was told come Chinese New Year they'll have the global supply chain sorted out we're now being quoted 13 000 so it's not getting any better you touched on another very important point on sustainability like is it right that we fill containers and we we we ship them around the world international shipping you know they use you know the bunker level fuel that they use is the most highly emissions that's available out there only five percent of the shipping fleet has been converted over to LPG which is which is a start but there's an awful lot more we can do I'm very fond I'm very clear that on shoring and when I say on shoring I just don't mean Ireland I mean Europe has enormous potential again we have to take everything into consideration like in the Far East they're still building building coal power plants this means a lot to Glenn Dimplex means a lot to me but more importantly it means a lot to our customers so I think that is an unstoppable force there's nothing I'm seeing out there I just think the pandemic has brought us the four okay good Hildegard can I come over to you one of the balance between the two business speakers today was that Neil is in in the in the goods economy you're more in the services economy death of distance is often talked has long been talked about I I'd be interested to get your views on whether the accelerate has made market access easier for Irish sorry Dan you just froze there for a second so I got I'd be interested in and then freeze yeah I'm sorry I'm getting a bad connection here I can you hear me now is it clear yes yes far away I'd be interested to get your views on issues around the death of distance and whether platforms like this during the pandemic the accelerated uptake of these kind of meetings of non-imperson meetings may have made market access easier for four companies so is that death of distance thing has that been accelerated and will that make it easier for businesses to consider accessing for the first time or for deeper access to foreign markets okay I first on I'll just build upon what Neil said because I totally agree with him in relation to supply chain and I know from our own experience delivering services to clients we can see also that there's a shift in focus and and I think it's underlined also into European legislation I think that's important for maybe the audience today to to reinforce that there the whole food to fork strategy the the green deal the energy transition the approach to from a linear to a circular economy means that actually you know we will now not export you know and the green fence that happened in China you know that means now that we actually will produce and produce secondary raw materials in Europe I think that's a huge opportunity for Irish organizations and for sure that will only rapidly grow and expand and you can see that already in terms of consumer behaviors also within the food and beverage market so companies like Denone have you know over 90% of their products now made locally in relation to it or recently I was speaking to the CEO of Spar international device wasmos and they're building local hubs local supply chains you know they're a global organization of 40 billion but it's all locally done in relation to it and even with COVID you know and with closing down barriers in tourism then they were using you know local products from farmers into their their food stores so that trend will not change it has been a weak signal but I think the COVID has actually expedited that in full that's number one and I think also that will happen in light of also the rulings this week with Chevron, Exxon, Michel in relation to oil and gas and what that means going forward the second question then is was about digital we know now around 70% of all sales are done online and yes of course there's a huge amount of that done with the Amazons and others but I can also see from our business perspective we have trained up our people and yes we're a global organization but in each country we can range you know from a small entity to one that's you know 100 million to two billion so we all are ultimately a network of people and experts so we also are training now our commercial people our business development people who just to build an hands point they're not always traditional business development people there may be technical or operational people that have empathy warmth again the sales funnel is a process so again it's it's a practical process and you just you know let's not forget where human beings connecting with each other that accounts for a huge amount you know you trust you buy from who you trust and so we're training them to actually be able to connect pitch give an elevator pitch by way of you know forms like this and also like forms this you don't always have the ability to to build rapport rigor in the beginning because it's quite structured and it's quite distant so how do you adapt and how do you grow but I think really it's expedited the ability for SMEs and smaller companies to reach into that market people are used now to zoom calls or hangouts or team meets or LinkedIn approaches you know so really it should break down barriers to entry and allow for Irish companies to expand and and rapidly grow okay thanks and that just to make you know some of the panelists here may not want to say something sort of political but you know as a think tank I think it's important to say that you know relations with China have clearly deteriorated and the business risks of doing business in China have risen and I think that'll be another factor that will shorten supply chains at least in terms of Europe and China and the US and China indeed we had a speaker a high-level American speaker a few months back who suggested that the shortening of supply chains between the US and China could actually benefit Ireland that American companies may find that doing business in a place like Ireland may be a better choice for them than doing business in China so there could be opportunities there in that change of supply chains. A question to you Neil from Manus Rooney one of Anne's colleagues at Enterprise Ireland a really interesting approach to market selection that you set out in your in your presentation Neil he asks when you enter a new market how do you get the approach and balance right between being local and taking advantage of the overall synergies across the Eurozone so is this local element specific to the Eurozone or a similar trend for your global business? That's a similar trend to the to our global business there are so much disparities you but you it's getting that inside knowledge for instance I showed you our fuel effect fires believe it or not they look different in every every market but we have a common chassis for instance in Australia their most common wood is a is red gum tree that they it grows wild they cut it down they chop it up and they put it in their fires if if if we said down fires made in made in Ireland that have a bircher pine as the fuel bed it just looks wrong to them they're used to seeing their red gum tree in a fire and I'm taking that localization that's very easy for us to change the fuel effect and it can have an enormous difference to the market you know I could I could sit there and I could tell them you know but yeah when you when you burn irish wood you know gives a beautiful flame effect and all that but it's what they're used to again I showed the fan heaters the two fan heaters and you asked me just the previous question I didn't get to answer it they are they are identical in functionality and everything that they do they deliver the same heat when you buy a fan heater it's a distressed purchase you're cold you want a solution should you really care if it's a vertical as we call an upright or a letterbox no it shouldn't but when you design a product it could cost you 400 000 euro to design a product from scratch 300 000 of that is in the engineering of the product whereas only 100 000 a quarter of it is actually in the tooling so if you're smart for an extra 20 percent you can have two products so inside the products they have the same motor they have the same thermostat this have the same cutout they have all of the internal wiring is all the same it's just in a different aesthetic so it's trying to be smart and instead of setting out to design one product or then design another you know try to take in these global preferences into an early stage of the process good look we're actually moved towards the end one of the aspects I'd like to discuss is exchange rate and the euro one of the things that certainly is an economist that surprised me after the adoption of the euro was that there wasn't a bigger shift towards sourcing from the eurozone to take advantage of the elimination of exchange rate risk that irish businesses continued really to import from the uk is the biggest supplier that looks like it's changed with brexit and the the shock of brexit and there has been a shift towards continental european markets anyone have any thoughts on on the importance of of exchange rate exchange rate risk and the ease of doing business with the euro area is that a factor perhaps more for you neil than than uh than you hildegard yeah I I you know I think that when the transition to the euro happened um we were all fluent in multi currencies so it wasn't a big shock to continue to do a small little mental calculation to go to sterling however as new generations are coming through you know people have grown up with one currency we grew up with multi currencies so I think that that is also that is also helping the shift I think it also was dramatic around the brexit boat as we saw enormous volatility in part with stable currencies for a long time I also have the the advantage that um within uh glad dimplex we have manufacturing in europe and we share best practice so we have we have sources of of componentry in europe and we have a we have an active uh purchasing function that compares a contrast suppliers I think it's actually interesting to go back to what Anne sort of said where there was a there was a strong preference for single source supply for a long time we have benefited enormously from that now multi nationals particularly in our in our precision cooling business one competitive sourcing they want dual sources of supply so that's open an opportunity for us in although we would have a large market share relative in the market of about 20% of the global cooling business 80% of that market is now open for us to go after so I do believe that the that that Europe is opening up as a supply base for Ireland and we need to we need to accelerate that but I think everyone's everyone's focus has been the market opportunity rather than sourcing yeah I would agree and I think also it's a known risk so you know that currency as as Neil said I grew up in the border so Puntin and now show me age Puntin Pound where you know part of it and your transition was was where it was so that risk once you know what it is and you can identify it you can mitigate it through hedging or whatever you know diversification and even we we export secondary raw material to different clients in many countries I think the biggest shift or the biggest trigger or game changer now will be really the kind of the European policy in relation to as I said the ecological transformation and supply chain moving back and you know reducing carbon emissions and the food for policy you know trying to reduce waste by a third of all the food that we do just imagine the amount of consumption and wastage in terms of as you said Neil's 13,000 euros you know to transport something across you know so I think that will have much more of a game player and I think maybe COVID and indeed the Brexit actually made people acutely aware of the risks and maybe from that always with the risk there's always an opportunity and we're very good at taking the opportunities so that has changed the market and maybe opened up much more the potential to look at Europe and to expand in Europe because of that. Great thank you look I'm going to give the final word to Ann as we're in the last two minutes we can't get to all the questions let me just throw them out because we have two more of these sessions July September these are a couple of good questions here which we'll hold over to the next time Finn Barrow Sullivan asks any views on how the Irish SMEs can benefit from the experience of the Irish diaspora in Europe great question keep that one for the next time Savva Green from the Department of Enterprise Trade and Employment asks what measures would you recommend the European Commission and Member States take to make the single market as free flowing and single as possible for example are there particular barriers we need to address so very good question specific question we'll hold both of those over for the next event in July and in the final minute just hand over to Ann for any closing thoughts as our partner on this event to close the event Ann over to you. Thank you Dan and thank you to you and to our speakers and our audience I might just go back to something that Ann the tarnish that said at the beginning he talked about the reputation of Irish companies in terms of the level of innovation the flexibility and the friendly way in which we do business and I really would like to highlight that I mean I'm just blown away by the companies that we work with it's a real privilege and like I said earlier I would I hate to see a lost opportunity so I'd like to finish I suppose with saying look we have brilliant companies with brilliant innovation that is recognized across the eurozone and we're easy to do business with and I would just love to see us taking real advantage and using what we have to really leverage and the single market and develop and those opportunities to really build on the Irish industry base and to improve and the contribution that Irish enterprise has to the Irish economy so that we have more Glen Dimplexes of this world as we move forward but that would be my closing thoughts thank you to the audience in particular but also thank you to Neil and Hildegard for all of their contributions and to you Dan and the IIEA and congratulations on your 30th anniversary. Thanks so much and I very much echo those points and more Glen Dimplexes would definitely be the way forward. Hildegard Neil many thanks for being so generous with your time and your thoughts today hope everyone in the audience found it useful look forward to the next session in a couple of months on this I'm wishing everyone a very good and productive day. Good morning.