 Everybody welcome digital asset news. My name is Rob and today I keep getting this recurring question Which is a pretty good question? It's a question I've had for quite some time Which is what can I do if I have any of my crypto or digital assets on a failing centralized exchange? That says Celsius Voyager FTX in our block fight. How does that work with taxes? So we've got that question and some other things we're gonna ask for and we're gonna take a look at that by bringing on David Kemmerer Co-founder of coin ledger David. Thanks for stopping by. Yeah, it's good to be back. Thanks for having me Rob Hope hope all is well in spite of the Crazy markets although we've had a rally in the past week or so. Hey, man, I'll take this raw This is a good rally. I'll take I don't care if it's a bear market or it's the next bull run I have no idea. I'm like will anybody else does but I'll take it So we're gonna start with that question and then also if you could be so kind give us a little walkthrough of coin ledger Because I'm gonna have to use this again. This is my third straight year I've been using it and then also I wanted to talk to you about that portfolio tracker. So let's just jump into it first things first Yeah, so the question we get it a lot too, you know, what what do I do for tax purposes? Can I take a loss if I have crypto locked up now in you know, Voyager Celsius FTX? the bad news is It's kind of a bummer for taxpayers because essentially you can't take a loss until you've really settled up with these Platforms, what do I mean by that? essentially once you definitively get back or don't get back Whatever settlement there there becomes that is the moment when you can take a tax loss So essentially, right? You have if you're in this position you have a claim to You know assets of these companies It's likely that claims gonna be outstanding for a while now Maybe companies like Voyager slightly different, but it's not until that claim gets fulfilled You know is that's the point when you can claim the tax also an example Let's say I have $10,000 of assets locked up in Celsius and let's say that bankruptcy Resolves three years from now and I get $2,000 worth of assets back It's in that year that I can take that $8,000 capital loss because I have officially Realized kind of my loss I've booked that loss. I've settled up with Celsius I've gotten my distribution and that's when I'm gonna file that loss with my taxes if you You know if your claims outstanding that's when it's like well, you can't do it yet Got on that answer Okay, so there's a couple things of that so if it's if it's outstanding so right now it's looking like Voyager is gonna be going to be bought out by Binance once that goes through then of course we settle up and go Okay, it was worth this now. It's worth this. There's a loss and I'm good But as far as like like the outstanding ones because Celsius has taken forever They seem to want to believe that they're going to make this great fantastic company. Good luck And that's gonna take years in the process So not only do we have to deal with the losses there, but we can't even claim the losses on our taxes That's what it sounds like until we actually settle up. Correct. That's right. That's right. Exactly So some of these processes are gonna go faster than others. It sounds like right and voyagers will be able to settle up quicker And you're exactly right and you're so gosh so and then also there's a couple things So like let's say for the Voyager thing it goes through There's two types of losses I want to apply this to one is my income and one is my cap gains now as I understand it Correct me if I'm wrong here. It's only $3,000 per year that I can apply that to so let's just say that I have you know $100,000 on on the platform and then they say okay 50% if 50,000 is what I get back I have a loss of 50,000. I can only apply $3,000 per year to my Income of what I generate from my job my businesses or something else But I can it's an unlimited amount on the cap gains. Correct. Right. This is where You're exactly right, but the US right like to make things complicated. So oh, yeah Put it another way is You know, you get back like you said in your example $50,000 you've realized a $50,000 capital loss, right? And so capital losses Can deduct like you said unlimited against other capital gains What are other capital gains selling other cryptocurrencies selling stocks selling real estate, right? If you sold your house all that can deduct So, you know again a good example that I like to use let's say I sold my house that same year and I booked $100,000 of gains that $50,000 cryptocurrency loss that I realized can deduct Fully with that now. I only have $50,000 of taxable gains from selling that house So that reduced my taxable income by a whole bunch, right? Now, let's say you don't have any other forms of capital gains from stocks from real estate that year You'd have what's called a net capital loss for this year of $50,000 $3,000 can deduct against your ordinary income again That's income from w2 stuff like your job Other things and the rest carries forward to future years and will keep deducting Against future capital gains at an unlimited amount until that whole $50,000 capital loss has been kind of used up so again Kind of annoying that you have to keep track of all this stuff But you will be able to use all of that capital loss as long as you know, you keep fairly good records Yeah, which is another reason why I think some of these things need to be pushed along so we can actually, you know Realize those and go for and then real quick just to make sure If we're talking about time frames, there's no time limit. Let's just say in like, you know, 20 years I decided to sell a house. I'm like, oh, I have that $50,000 $45,000 Cap gain loss I can implement so wouldn't really be like there's a time limit for that correct, right? No, just each year you have that carry-forward loss and Depending on what's reported on 89 49 it will deduct Against any gains and so, you know, that's years and years in the future. Correct. You can carry that forward Yeah, and just remember everybody it doesn't matter if if you're trying to take a look at losses when you move your crypto between Crypto wallets that is not a taxable event Just so you know But if you pay for goods and or services and or sell your crypto Then of course it does also if you swap your crypto for something Let's just say you buy Bitcoin at 10,000 because of 20,000 you swap it for USDC as a taxable event But moving it between wallets is not so just remember those things when you're saying I'm gonna make sure that I get these Capital losses make sure you don't you what we're doing here. Okay, David. Thanks for answering that question I know it's not what people want to hear, but it is the truth and we can actually move forward So that would my next one Let's take a look at this coin ledger because I've done a couple videos on it I've showed people but be nice to get the experts to show us how it's all done So real quick just pop in coin ledger and let's take a look at What it is and how easy it is again when I've used it API integration takes me 30 minutes for when I implement Push it all through find out my tax Liabilities and then ship it over to my CPA. So let's take a peek here Yeah, so a real quick overview now We are officially in the US tax season the IRS opened up for business as of today, January 23rd Right coin ledger, you know our team has been building this for now four and a half years It's pretty simple what you're gonna do is all you're gonna do is create a completely free account You're gonna connect up the exchanges and wallets that you've used throughout the years It's super easy. You can integrate them with really the click of a button or let's say you use a wallet like Meta mask You can essentially just copy paste in your public address for that You can't see this part, but you're gonna sync all of that up You can see I've already done that with a bunch of platforms a theory and we support a whole bunch of block chains wall Once you pull in everything the coin ledger we can track The basis and all of your assets right as they move from wallet to wallet So this is where coin ledger shines where something like Coinbase doesn't is because we have your data stitched across all of your platforms So we can actually tell you, you know, what's your basis in this amount of Ethereum on you know When you traded it for this iota on Binance and actually show you your realized gains losses for all of your Transactions across all of your wallets exchanges You know again, this is what the centralized exchanges can't do because they only have the data from their platform All this is fully auditable fully drillable to see exactly how this accounting data is being applied Then you can of course generate and see what your capital gains were this was for 2021 when we were all you know making money 22 probably not quite as good pretty much as flat I think you know it was pretty much just holding but again all this is fully auditable for you as the user You can go and see how your short-term versus long-term capital gains Are being crunched and calculated and then you can download all of the relevant tax forms that you need as a user Really, that's the platform from front to back You know if anyone has any suggestions on what else they'd like to see improve in the platform We're always all years. So hit us up in the comments. We watch that stuff closely Yeah, sure and then yeah again, it's it's a pretty simple simple process also I think there's a there's a one-click button to send your CPA. I know it's there somewhere because I've used it twice Yes, and that makes things a heck of a lot easy and then also just real quick So everybody knows you can get started for free with coin ledger if you don't if you're like I don't really know how this works out. It says it gets started for free There's a link in the description now look coin ledger is a sponsor the channel if you cannot stand using affiliate links It's fine. Just go to coin ledger.io But you're not gonna get that 20% discount But if you just want to start for free to see how it all works and integrate It's right there for you to check out and then I will say when you were going over this This is the the last thing they even will get you out of here is I got a I need pro I have problems with portfolio tracking and I we did a video. It was on Taking profits for dollar cost averaging. There's other programs out there to do it, but they I gotta tell you they suck so Do you guys have anything like that some that's coming down because I think you do and like you to show it now If you could please because I'm tired of using these other ones and just be used to integrate very simply Yes, so you and I were chatting before this call I love hearing the pain points that you have right because then we can craft our products to better serve People like you right and there's a lot of a lot of people like you you have a big audience somewhat But uh, you know definitely tools we're working on I can't say exactly when the stuff is gonna launch But is like pure portfolio tracking straight from your coin ledger dashboard So right now we do this but at a pretty high level We're gonna get way more granular with our portfolio tracking So we're gonna show you know complete breakdowns of all the assets that you currently hold What wallets you hold them in your basis right for all of your assets compared to the current market value Yeah, right me right how much I'm up or down in my hole of my holdings But then we're gonna enable people to drill in right to these holdings to actually see every single tax lot of Bitcoin so for folks like you who have been dollar cost averaging right for potential years They can kind of tweak things around to see you know like you were saying before like okay past 60 days What am I up or down because I was you know dollar cost averaging for again the last 60 days So this stuff is in development right now You know it takes a bit for us because Again, we want to build really good products and have these are experiences be pretty seamless but I'd love to hear people's feedback on What they'd like to see in a portfolio tracking product this will 100% you know guide our Development efforts and you know we take all of that feedback Into account Perfect. Yeah, so everybody watching this video and that'll be it for today is give some feedback on that Would you like to see a portfolio tracker? I know I would but I'm just one person So sound off in the comments section and we'll see and then also if you're looking for that link there's a Link in the description looks just like this and also there's a deep dive video Which I show exactly how to integrate and use it's very simple I mean if I can figure out you can figure out but that's it for today. So look David Thanks so much for stopping by we do appreciate also I think we're gonna do some more of these videos We're gonna get some CPAs on from your that that work with you to answer some of these some people's questions And we're gonna do it live over the next couple of months There's a lot of questions people have with taxes. I think it is better just to get it out the way so Thanks for having me look forward to chatting in I'll talk to you later Rob. All right, buddy. Thanks so much That is it for today. Thanks so much. Bye