 My name is Lucia Smolka, I'm your moderator for this panel and this panel is called How can the Czech Republic be at the heart of a connected Europe? Well, a little about me, I'm an IT law attorney and founder of NGO content and I also as a chairperson of Open Cities. I hope you will enter our panel and also the after lunch part of this conference. So I'll start with the short introduction of this panel. And then I will introduce their speakers. So it is clear that open source software has been an essential element of the European technology ecosystem for decades around the world companies and public services, you are using open source collaborative metals to innovate and create new solutions. It is likely that in any new project involving software, a large part of the code will be based on open source. The use of open source in the Czech Republic is quite high, especially in companies and IT communities. And it's also becoming a large part of public administration. We can even find a dedicated open source portal, which we already talked about. We have a lot of open source conferences. We have a lot of enthusiasts professionals and so fans, and we also have the drive to make the difference. However, in order to really make a difference in Czech Republic. When it comes to the use of open source applications, you need to go further and unify our efforts and create a body, like we said Czech National Oslo open source program office to enable knowledge transfer between stakeholders and similar partners across Europe to leverage existing knowledge and also the best practices. So welcome the speakers of our last one today to discuss these topics and to draw inspirations. So I will first introduce Mr. Yuriy Hlavenko, regional representative of South Morivan region, investor and also author of many publications and articles. Since 1990, he has been involved in many areas of business. He co-funded the specialist publishing host computer press and launched the country's first online shop. Since 2005 he has been investing more in innovative technology startups. Since 2016, he has been a representative of South Morivan region and also chairman of the South Morivan region Council Commission for Information Openness. And he is also a member of the Open Cities Committee and its expert advisor. So thank you very much for joining us today. Please welcome me. Okay, I'm now pleased to introduce Mr. Petra Zirovchinova. She is the first chief innovation officer in Bratislava. She is responsible for preparing the innovation strategy for the city, creating a network of stakeholders from academic business and also civic sectors. She has a business background. She previously and the startup Freya care and help companies with business development, marketing strategies and innovation efforts. She is the founding executive manager at the Slovak Alliance for Innovation Economy. She was responsible for setting strategic vision, vision recruiting members and building networks among policymakers in Slovakia, and on the EU level. Thank you for joining us today Petra. This speaker is Mr. Jakob Onderka, security analyst at the government's computer emergency response team, which is part of the National Cyber and Information Security Authority and plays a key role in protecting critical information infrastructure and other system under the Cyber Security Act. This includes critical information infrastructure controls and related technical measures and drafting cybersecurity regulations and dealing with the most serious cyber attacks taking place in the Czech Republic. Jakob is also an experienced open source developer, and he's dedicated to increasing evidence of open source capabilities uses and benefits. Thank you very much for joining us today. Last but certainly not least, I'm pleased to introduce Mr. Carol Minajik, Chief Technology Officer in Czech Digital. Carl work as a graphic designer project manager lecture of interactive design at the Institute of Digital Media lecture of introduction to programming at the Department of New Media Studies, Faculty of Arts, Charles University. He's a chief software engineer and software architect. He also created many websites and applications and also contributed to many open source projects. As part of this career, he now has taken up a position at Czech Digital, where he takes care of the technical competence of the organizations and its overall increase. His goal is to take the digital transformation in Czech Republic to the next level. Thank you very much for joining us today. Okay, so I will now start with the question to you have income. So, you see open source is becoming an increasingly important tool at various level of state and local governments. Would you please share your insight with how about open source open standards and principles of open collaborations are taking shape from a point of view as a governor of source, so smart, so smart in the region for innovation and digitalization. Okay, thank you. Yeah, perfect. Just first, I'd like to say that I am a real supporter of open source software and principles. And as Lucia meant to my former since I have to, it came some funny story that my publishing house published the first books about open source in this republic. And it was published because I see many guys with the red heads pass about the red happy nooks. It was in years 2000. I don't know if you have the books in the library I still wish me as a general director of the company. If not, you can buy it today still for 30 crown two crowns, which is one euro 40 cents. It is memorably actually you cannot use it if you can't I maybe I have in prime private library I will give it to you. Back to the back to the open source. Maybe a comfortable view is that I view open source, not only as a good solution itself, but as a tool subset of tools to foster and increase the speed of digital transformation to increase the speed of the innovation. Because because those tools in principle how they are built are encouraging innovation and encouraging transformation. However, to, to penetrate them in the, let's say public administration. I'm responsible for for the IT in the in the in some other region which is the office with 800 people which is large office with 200 schools is 400 social institution and so on so it is it is pretty complex things. It is difficult, because if I may use the wartime terminology in these days, the enemies is strong, has a big deeper and is well, well fortified. Yeah, especially when you see this, the, the logbox software is deeply integrated across the department. It is very difficult to replace. I think that everybody knows what would I mean. So how to approach how to address it. What we did first is that we will be, I say that okay, this is long term and difficult what is maybe easier and short term is data. So opening the data is something we could do rather easily rather quickly. So we now are publishing some several hundreds of data sets in the intelligent form is API to for everyone to use. As I came here I came across past across the more of your more of Scott and Scott you have not did the more of your country, the library library, we, for example, helped to digital digitalized the cultural cultural heritage of so Maria we are right, right written papers, couple of hundreds of years ago to digitalize and to put some money to digitalize them and to make them accessible to the public. Yeah, so those are just things to the examples of the, of the how we approach the open data, still what remains are the other open software systems, and really this is things that needs a lot of time, we do step by step. But sometimes we can replace some fragment sometimes not. And obviously we are trying we need we actually need help because administration is here just a customer, we don't have powers to develop. I don't think that like regional office should should be at software developer I don't think it is is wrong. But we are encouraging developers to provide us with solutions that we can. And even with the ways how to implement. And this is not only just just just to just so help us to penetrate with the open source of their better in the administration but this is a really long work. And I'm happy that there is initiative that we'll cover it from from the down. This is very important. Thank you. This is the movement, but we'll manage exactly. Thank you. It was, it was very insightful, and we would like to help in open cities is treating the open source to public administration. So, thank you. As we speak about the public level of the cities and the regions. I'd like to ask Petra. Can you consider what open means at the municipal municipal level. Can you tell us about the work of your team. Part of your job is to prepare the innovation strategy for Bratislava. What role does open invention play in your plans. Could you maybe tell us also about your city website and the open source. Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. So, working out in the open is crucial for us, it kind of changed the position of being the municipality and telling everyone the top down approach like this is how we're going to do things so we started to work out in the open. It's a very vulnerable position because you're going out there and you're trying to talk to people and ask them what they think and engage them in the process so we're not showing them something that is finished we are trying to co design our services and what the city offers with residents and our stakeholders. I would like to follow up with Maria was saying and we are facing one of the biggest challenges on our time so climate change is happening and it's kind of a step down a step up from looking just at technology because technology can be an enabler to help us solve these problems. So, if we look at it more broadly, open thinking and co creation and collaboration can help us solve these big challenges. I know that there are many cities in Sweden that are involved in the mission of 100 climate neutral and smart cities. It's really, really important to co create solutions and try different types of solutions pilot them and and find frameworks for cities, the size of bretso arbor nor any big ones to try out solutions that could be open that could be transferred to other countries and create portfolios of solutions that we can spread out to other countries and other cities across Europe and across the world. So that's the way we're trying to think about it just it's more broader than just thinking about open source technology than just thinking about open source technologies. Of course we are working on our website as well. And I would disagree with the Yuri actually, because we do have our own development team in house, just because we realize that we need to take ownership of how we develop our chains in house to say these are the technologies we wanted to use these are the standards we want to use. And that team works with our collaborators with our suppliers and they are kind of leading the change. And without them we wouldn't be able to be an effective partner for the outer world. We have just finished our website, it was a long process and it kind of shows how we work with stakeholders so at the beginning, we really tested every single step of the way from the way the side map is designed from designs to processes with our colleagues so we engaged 100 people from the city hall to take part in this process so they take it from as their job and as part of their work to have a successful presentation. And at the end of the day, we've published the code for the website on GitHub, which is one of the first institution in Slovakia to do so. But because we already had someone contributing and improving what we're trying to do so I would like to go this way forward. Let me check my notes. I might have something else I want to share with you. Yes, innovation policy that was also a very interesting journey because we as a city we're very close up, we didn't really collaborate with our academic partners. We're not as as good as in Bruno because you have a really nice collaboration here but we didn't have that. And we are trying to identify what are the key areas of research and and business exploration, because we are losing many talented students to Bruno. So we would like to come here or check your public in general, and we would like to keep them and explore and kind of enrich our research opportunities and and have Brett Slava grow as strong as Bruno and other cities in with collaborating together so that's another way of kind of opening up and adhering to the principles of collaboration which I think we can see in open source as well. Thank you very much. It's really interesting about the website because sort of the cities in Czech Republic, especially the small ones are looking forward to some solution, which is open source and they can use it easily and we would like to try to help with that but it's, it's a big process and big, big task to make it. And also, part of the open source is definitely cybersecurity. And my next question is for Jakub. So, when you have open source software. A lot of, a lot of different people are contributing to the software and they can possibly search for errors and they can propose modifications. So what experience do you have with the open source software in cybersecurity, which should be taken into account in the terms of cybersecurity when working this open source and public administration. Good afternoon. So directly in the cybersecurity field open source and open standard are crucial for securing communication and for data, not just in critical information infrastructure but in the world internet. For example, many tools that we use for securing communication like that are just open source and even if we want to use closed source software there is not that not the software is comparable with open source because many, many people that works in that field are really fans of open source and they collaborate even then. For example, they are home after work or during their holidays. And the time is also key factor during handling cybersecurity incident for example, you are going to place and you want to help them with to fight with hackers. You don't have time to call your economic department and ask for money for buying license for some software or hardware. So deploying open source tools to fight hackers is sometimes the only way how public administration can do that. But maybe in commercial sector it can be different they can give some organization has like money directly assigned to this usage but in the public sector it can be very hard to do that because of many stricter or that public sector must follow. And from perspective like cybersecurity when when somebody wants to use or release open source software I think it's two things. It's different because using open source software in public sector or in critical information infrastructure is just normal. It's a long time that this is possible. There is no law that telling organization that it is not possible. For example, in Czech Republic energy sectors use redhead as operation system. So without this open source energy will not work in Czech Republic. But the security of open source can be sometimes tricky as it's a situation that many people can collaborate in that software and it's not sometimes you can read in when somebody wants to promote open source software. They said it's more secure than closed source. It's not true all the time. It can be but it can be not and it depends on many factors and one of the advantage of open source software is it's possible to do software audits. But on the other hand, and from my experience companies even in very companies that has even a lot of money more than public sector don't do software audits because it's very expensive and it's also takes time. So if you want to deliver software for your citizens citizens fast. It's not good idea to do code audit and it's also problem with cybersecurity, because sometimes you have if there is like zero dates that means there is critical vulnerability and you have to deploy a new version very fast to fix that vulnerability is there is no time to do software audits. So my recommendation, not just for public sector is to start some something like bug bounty program. That means that anybody from your country or from other countries from the world can send you a report that something wrong is in your software there is. There is a software vulnerability, a security vulnerability in your software or in software that you use and you the organization will pay money. That's for example, European Commission do that. They chose 15 or 20 software. And if somebody find and that software is that is used by European Commission or organization in European Union. And if somebody finds a software vulnerability they pay them for example for keep us if you know that software they pay 71,000 euros. So this is the way how if you want to use some open source you can check if somebody already open that program bug bounty for the software that you want to use, or if you want to release open source software. You can make your own program but I understand that it can be hard for public institution not just because of lack of funding but also from the legal problems that can be there. Thank you. You have mentioned that open source can take a lot of time, a lot of money, a lot of people contributing. So now I would like to ask Carol. So how does volunteering fit in open source software development in the context of governments, you say in an obstacles that needs to be overcome. Thanks for the question is actually a question which is close to my heart, you know, I would first like to maybe address what is actually open source because we are talking the whole day here about what is open source. Is it a JavaScript library for padding string that zeros or spaces, or is it something like Linux or Apache Kafka. This is completely incomparable and it's really important to keep this in mind. It's not just, you know, big projects they're using it's small projects they're using but it may might be also the services and applications, which is produced by the communication institutions. And also, there's a lot of big businesses, you know, based around open source right is one, of course, there's a lot of people here, my former employee elastic, which makes elastic search even also, you know, does good business based on open source, right. But what I think is important to understand is that underneath there, there are some core values, you know, and if I would kind of pinpoint to its openness, which means everybody can contribute. I mean, not every crazy contribution will get into the main line of the projects but you can do that you can usually open a pull request or something and there's some kind of discussion around it. The other big, you know, aspect to me is transparency, because everything happens in the open, you know, every discussion, every feature request, every buck report that is transparent, github, idlib, other service like that. And the core values are really, really important when we talk about open source, either in terms of like pre pre made solutions like let's say Apache Kafka, or specific applications and services you know. So to me, the other thing to address is that it is human nature to cooperate. And that is that that is just the fact, you know, of course, people like to lie, steal, kill. That's also true, right. But we are successful as a species, because of the cooperation, not because the ability to kill, right. And they are not as successful as we are, you know, and that addresses the part of your question about volunteering because that is what we see in civic tech organizations around the world. And that is actually what we see in just digital in this aspect, people are really keen for this reason, it's not for no reason, it's for this reason of the ability to cooperate to really, you know, contribute to something. And that might be writing code, but that might be writing, you know, a nice Twitter, Twitter text, or contributing documentation, or something like that, you know. So, to me, this is really important to keep in mind it's not just a technical discussion and not just about vendor locking, you know, that's important that might sideline these important topics. And it's for the obstacles, you know, ironically, the most obstacles we see here, and, you know, encounter is the argument about security, which you kind of trust, right. And I see that is ironic, because, you know, the original mantra of Linux is given enough eyeballs, all bucks are shallow, and that is still true, you know. And I understand what I could be saying, of course, there are vulnerabilities in open source receiver once times, but they are addressed, you know, and it's completely delusional to think that, you know, commercial software doesn't have vulnerabilities like that. That's just delusional. Like people are people coders writing commercial software at the same quarters, in many cases, as the open source coders, right. So, and I like that better I mentioned that they actually do publish, you know, part of their website part of the applications or services is open source, because that that is something I increasingly increasingly see as more important than the vendor looking for discussions, you know, let me close with just one example so the official covert dashboard for the UK is completely open source is the official dashboard used by it was used during the pandemics by the doctors politicians journalists, everybody the public, and by completely open source I mean, it's based on open source technologies. It uses postgres SQL with the Citrix extension so it's a distributed but database pretty sophisticated system. It's not just a website. This is a real application. It's also completely open source in the sense that all the code is at GitHub, the official, you know, organization for that particular department of the UK government. And by code, I don't mean just the front end, you know, a bunch of JavaScript and HTML files. And all the services all the data transformations because they did a lot of cleanups etc etc, and also the terraform definitions for building the whole infrastructure. So, that's to me, you know, is what we should strive for. And when you look up that dashboard at GitHub, you will see external contributions. It's the same minor, you know, it's fixing a buck like when I click this button it doesn't do what it should. But imagine how a developer at the public institution will be happy when somebody just fixes their buck. So, that should be great to strive for this. And that's really interesting. You talked about the values and motivations and I think all of our who are here. We share these values, but I think we have to also to spread it to other communities and other people maybe other governments. And so I would like to ask you. We have seen open source and open, open innovation identified as foundations element for government's futures from economic recovery to swing day to day issues to helping citizens. So what's your view on how open source and the policy context is key to creating successful outcomes for connecting people and governments across the Europe. Well, I see that we have some depth here that we don't too much communicate too much across the governments across the countries, maybe even across the different offices in the Czech Republic. Everybody just loves to look inside his office and work inside his office so we truly have some that we need to start talking start communicating maybe this conference is maybe very good, very good start here. And, well, I would like to speak about two things. The first is to to share the solution said to share the solution that somebody has developed. This is principle of open source. Absolutely. Which is maybe the little bit difficult things because, okay, the solutions are mostly tailor made on individual legislations, cultural, you know, things. Different stages of the evolution in the in the different countries and the government structures of the government each country has a completely different structure so this is not not very easy, but it should be done. So maybe if we talk enough and we learn both other country what in Sweden in the lands where has has developed and get a very good experience they had the results we need to look on the solutions with great results say hey should be somehow did you somehow use it. This is something we should we should do. So, maybe a little more than just just to take over what is done. By the way, who is a developer here. So we know that what what what the developer allows most to write code right, right code. This is your job. This is what we love to take over all this code understand the thinking or what the developer. This is this is not nobody likes it. But, okay, sharing thoughts sharing the, let's say, best practice case. Okay, you develop something is written in works. Well, let's take just an inspiration in spiral. Let's do it himself. This is also the sharing of the and this is the connect connecting and communicating. So I believe that we could look at the smart solutions that had developed around us, take inspiration and try to think how we can learn from that and adapt it. By the way, we in the sort of my way I also trying to reply of your speech lunch in the agency, because we need to somehow a little bit separated from the, from just for the administration is called the Enoch, this is short for probably nothing but this is agency for promoting modern solution for the public public sector. So we have some three or four main directions one is, let's say modern energetics. And mobility and one of them also first solution. Yeah, so so this is, this is a tour this is vehicle for for delivering the solution solutions to the public sphere to the municipalities to the organization so this should be a let's take a vehicle to do it. And I believe that this office is a right subject to communicate with others. As I think that this is this model is replicated to many countries so it is not inside the administration so it is some agency or office which is a little bit separated to have more autonomy. And this is something that's a son formation this agency so we will not put it in directly as a member of the office but we really separated give it an autonomy give it a budget, let them work. So these institutions should should work together and try to learn from the best experience inspire and and bring that solution. Communication is super important and we would like to create the space here at the conference and also after the conference so hopefully we'll be able to share more and talk about our challenges and problems. So, but the experience as CIO, what challenges have you had to overcome. What device would you give to other cities, looking to innovate their operations and looking for inspirations. And maybe you can share also what not to do maybe. Well, before I answer the city's questions I would like to say, Carol is true when my developer team gets a pull request from the outside there the happiest so it's, it's really nice to have people contributing. So let's get to answer your question, or questions. I think the biggest challenge was building trust with my colleagues public servants are usually not really trusting new things and when you come as part of design thinking the first thing they learn on the first workshop is trust the process and it's, it's open, it's messy, it's iterative and it's, it's really really hard for people who are kind of used to one, one way of doing things so that was one of the biggest challenges but now the people that went through the process with us really trusted and really enjoy it and they always come back to us and they ask us what problem are we trying to solve. What is the reason we're doing this thing and that's the most important thing and for whom. Also, that's what we need to ask every single day is this solution beneficial to someone does it solve their problem, really crucial problem they're facing so those are kind of the very important things we're trying to share with anyone who's thinking about starting the way to work out in the open because I think it's crucial to be very transparent about it. And that is, is communication so when we were working on the website, every single month, we had something internally called show and tell, where we presented what we are working on what's the progress of the website with our colleagues. And we had a couple of setbacks as well so we had to communicate some unpleasant things but we tried to tell them okay some things didn't work out some things took longer than we expected. We want to invite you to be part of the process we want you to understand that it is not a piece of it's not a notebook it's not a statue it's something that changes and involves in time and we want you to be part of that. And that's kind of changing mindsets when you're part of software development or development of any other service or product it's not something that set in stone that kind of evolves with with needs with changing circumstances. We've seen that over the past 40 years, how things change. And we have to be very transparent about it. What we have learned as well as collecting data and measuring impact of what we're doing. And it's also really important to kind of set the the KPIs at the beginning like what do you want to measure. Is it money saved is it people make things things faster is it. I don't know. For example with with our tax pilot where we launched a service to pay your tax for property, really, really fast. The KPI for us was how fast people paid, and also how happy they were to pay their tax, because no one's happy to pay their taxes, but we had net promoter score of 90, which is through the roof, we didn't really believe that but that was a lot of people happy to pay their taxes and I had people messaging me like I did it on a waiting on the lights when I was in my car and I'm like, please don't tell me that. So, and there was procurement mentioned as well so that's kind of a challenge in the public institution also kind of setting up the rules that you can open up to smaller companies and and not delivering. So it's called, I'm not sure how it's called in English but it's, and it's, it's a software as, as it is yellow, no truth. You know what I mean. So, so it's more about, yeah, a piece of piece of work, rather than working with your partner as as a collaborator with your service. And one last thing I wanted to mention which was really good for us. So we started a city hackathon called Klamathum. And we had lots of different people contributing and we starting through pandemic so the first one was fully online and we had people coming to us and trying to solve our challenges and we are still working with the teams from the first year. So, these are kind of our volunteers there, they keep coming back to the city, and it builds relationship with the city as well, even though it's, it's much harder to kind of work with the broader ecosystem. Thank you very much. I'm, I maybe do one more challenge because what we experienced is sometimes people like to start projects. It's not open source specifically but people like to start projects and the finishing is the hard part. So that's what we dealt a lot of this. And also, back to the ACUP, to ACUP. What are some major cybersecurity challenges that governments face when collaborating on open source software and open content. Do you have any advice you can, you can offer on how to overcome these challenges. What is, what is your opinion maybe on the upcoming European Union legislation, and could you give some examples how to address this or where to get inspiration from. Thank you. As I know there is no legal problem as we said, when using or contributing to open source, open source project as public sector in Czech Republic or in some or from legislation of European Union. So that's okay. But the main problem as I see in public sector in Czech Republic is lack of knowledge lack of experts in that field, because Czech public institution usually outsourced do outsourced all of the development, all of the expert work. So, inside of the institution, there is nobody that can say that software is good, that software is not good, they outsourced that work. And when you the only end the problem with open source in as we talked about that in previous panel in procurement, according to some lawyers in Czech Republic they said it's not possible to request your the external company to deliver you open source or software you cannot put requirements deliver the direct the code must be open source. Because they said this is discrimination. So, if everything is outsourced and everything and you cannot request open source, it's problem. So, and you don't have internal people that that can develop software. One public institution, one city, maybe two years ago, they want to, because they somebody, some external entity called one application for making grants. So, the city wanted to release that code for other cities so they can use that. And with cooperation with open cities and that city, we receive that code and check it before they release it for public. And we find out that there are many security vulnerabilities so if the city release that code I think the their system will be heck in one or two minutes because there was really basic security problems. And security is really important. Because if you have closed source, the vulnerabilities are there, but nobody. It's, it's, it can be harder to find them if you have code, it's, it's much easier for potential hackers to find to find the vulnerabilities, and they can report to you, or use, and get the money from you for example from there. I said in the first part of my presentation that the bug bounty are one of the solution for that. And another solution is, you need expert knowledge inside the organization and check if the code is okay and it's a reasonable tool for anybody for public. And to make it this this thing easier. Our agency release recommendation for public sector that they can use, not just that they can use when they are when they want to release their products as open source currently is available just in check language and it's available on our GitHub. But we plan to translate that recommendations to English in your future and organizations can use that for not just to check the code according to the rules, but they also can provide the recommendations to their external partners so they will follow the rules by themselves. Thank you much. Yeah, the cyber security question is a big one and we need more people who are able to help with it. Yeah, hopefully, with your help, we will, we will make it as better. So, Carol, you have experienced from different types of projects, both commercial and nonprofit. So what do you think the biggest advantages of the trick environment are and maybe we have any projects we can, we can export to the other states. And, yeah, built on them for further cooperation. Yeah, thanks. I know we are short on time so I'll keep it short. When when the projects would be in the context of public or government services. I'm afraid it's the other way around. We don't have much to teach anybody. And this is paradoxical, right? It's again, you know, ironic, Czech Republic or Czechoslovakia, you know, it's really historically a technically advanced country, you know, there's a lot of technological innovation happening here. There are many successful technological companies, as Jacob usually says, e-commerce in Czech Republic is really, you know, a high standard for everybody. But when it comes to the public sector services, public sector applications, that's, you know, just a disgrace. You know, we had a good goal a couple of years ago, for instance, the data boxes, that was a, like, semi successful project at the time, but when you think about it, it's a glorified file sharing system and all that notifications. It's, it's crazy, you know, it's for sharing pds. Right. So that's, that's the paradox. For instance, in Greece, which I don't think anybody here would describe as a historically technically advanced country. I'm not talking about 2000 years ago, right, like the last century. They had a pretty sophisticated system for tracking lockdowns, etc, etc. Maybe we were lucky we had no such application so you could do whatever you want here, but you know the point stands. So, another good example, which is kind of ironic or paradoxical is bank ID, you know, and I always say bank ID, that's an absolute success and an absolute failure. You know, for some of them, maybe for others, I don't know what bank ID is. It's a way how you can authenticate to government services online through your bank account because obviously the bank knows who you are right. So we had some half baked solutions for that here provided by government but the usability is so, you know, crazy that actually the local banks they formed a conglomerate of banks and did this service for everybody to use, you know, which you can say that's a huge success, but also the state should probably provide a service like this in the same way, you know, in the same usable way, right. So, on the other hand, to, you know, and to not have a note, I think that that is maybe something to export, you know, to not be afraid of cooperation with the commercial or business sector, because this is a really great solution like everybody who uses bank ID in this country. They are like, this is great. I love it. You know, I will never ever use anything, you know, else again. So maybe that's one thing where we can share some some success here. Thank you. Thank you for the positive ending. Yeah, the bank ID is the thing we could show up to other people. And so we are, we are nearly the end of our panel. So my last question is to you. And so we are in the middle of European presidency of European Council, or Czech president of European Council. So do you see something we can do to encourage the connection between the EU member states and the Czech Republic. Do you see anything that this is a check to do it? Well, thank you. Obviously, the presidency is very, very short timeframe. It is half a year. This is not a time to achieve significant but to start things. This is good, good, good timing and good place to start timing. I would ask for what is unique and it is difficult to answer. I would maybe say that we are the best country best place to host the conferences from various reasons first behind the middle of Europe. Second that we here in Bernal we have an airport with no flights, which is also unique. And we have the best beer wine and spirits together. But on the more serious note, our country is let's say it heavy. We have we have really are maybe one of the largest number of it specialist coders, compared to population in Europe for some historical reasons I really think I really mean that And we have a lot of great team, a lot of great companies. There are areas that we are, I would not say that we are the best, but we are strong. Yeah, which is I would like to point out the AI and big data. We have great teams and great companies great competencies in these two areas. And you know that in public sector, this is all about the great, great data we have a lot of data we have no smart tools to analyze to have some outcomes for all This is something we need, but we have something to offer. And we are also very strong in cyber security, as actually you mentioned, again, would say that we are one of the strongholds of security, cybersecurity, not as good as Israeli guys, but they are keeping it secret. So we are willing to share a little more. We have also some nice organization here. Maybe this is not unique, but it is nice contributing like it's like a Chesco digital likes otter and I'm just like it's open out that are contributing. We update university as we are on the premises here that are very strong in open software, the Faculty of Informatics is a stronghold of open software. I have another funny story to say but not here, not now. There are things that we can we can contribute. Maybe not unique but we are strong in that. Perfect. Thank you so much for the closing note. And this is the end of our panel. I thank all the panelists for the insights and expertise. I think it was a great panel. Thank you very much.