 Thank you all so much for coming out today. This is put on by the Legal Services National Technology Assistance Project, which was hosted for the last eight years through Northwest Justice Project and was made possible by an LSE grant. We're going to do a quick introduction to each of the individuals that are here today and then we're going to jump into some substantive comments. There are your substantive pieces. There are two ways for individuals to interact and ask questions. The first of which there is a raise your hand button that is on the control panel. It looks like this. If you press that, I will be monitoring it and I can unmute you to ask questions. The second one and the one that seems to be most popular for individuals is the questions box. Anything that you type into that question box will go to one of the organizers and we will read those questions aloud. There will be a time for questions at the end of the webinar, but just to get a little bit of an idea and make sure people can find that box. If there is a particular topic that you would like to see more in-depth discussion of in the future, because we're only going to be here for about an hour and a half today, can you type that particular topic into the questions box just so that you know where that is and so that we've got some idea of where to go with future programming around these topics. We will be sending out a formal survey as part of the follow-up to this, so you don't have to get everything in there, but if there is something that you would really like to see more information on in particular, feel free to put that into the question box now. Excellent, and we're moving on to introductions. My name is Mark Rowe. I've worked with National Technology Assistance Project for about the last eight years now and I'm back on a short contract to help put together these trainings, host some community calls and try to help share best practices within the community here. Next, we have Allison Paul. Could you introduce yourself Allison? I'm Allison Paul. I'm the Executive Director of Montana Legal Services Association in Montana. We're a statewide program. Excellent, thank you Allison. And we've got two individuals from Just Tech here, John Briner and Anna Steele. Hi, I'm John Briner. I'm the President of Just Tech and worked in the legal aid community for over 20 years and most recently with Just Tech helping legal aid providers with a range of their technology needs. And I'm Anna Steele. I'm the Director of Consulting at Just Tech and prior to that was in the legal aid community with Legal Assistance of Western New York. Excellent, Liz Keith from ProBono. Hi, everyone. I'm Liz Keith. I'm Program Director with ProBonoNet and we're a national nonprofit that was founded in 1999 focusing on using technology and strengthening collaboration in the civil justice sector. And I'm based in Northern California. Excellent. From East Side Legal Assistance Program, Esperanza Boa and Allison Solani. Thank you. Thank you so much. Hi, this is Esperanza Boa with ELAP. I'm the Program Director and I'll let Elise introduce herself. Hi, I'm Elise Solani. I am a DV Staff Attorney with East Side Legal Assistance Program. Excellent. So we're starting here with Montana Legal Services and their experiences. Hi. So as I said, I'm Allison from Montana Legal Services. And we define, I think as a state, except for Alaska and Hawaii, we define the definition of remote in the lower 48. There are only 1.3 million people with over 147,000 square miles. That's the distance across Montana is the distance from Washington, D.C. to Chicago. At any given year, we only have between 13 and probably 17 attorneys to cover that whole state. So we've been doing both remote services and remote work for at least the last 15 to 20 years, because there really is no other way to do it. And one of our biggest barriers is geography, right? So when other people, we have almost a homogenous population. So we don't really look at racial differences as much, but it is an issue. But geography is one of our biggest challenges for our clients. Next slide. When SART asked me to think about doing this panel, I've done talks on remote work for quite a few years now for the legalized community. And I was trying to think of some tips that we've learned over our years of experience. And I came up with three groupings. One is meet clients where they are. Two is make it easy. And three, create community. So let's go with the next one. If you're going to meet clients where they are, I really think you have to use the telephone. And for those of you that know me on the call, this is my family. My family makes it into about every presentation that I do. And the funny part of the picture is that my daughter, her telephone booth says good listener, but she is absolutely not. But we learned over time, we have tried every single kind of technology to reach clients video, just about everything you can think of. And we always come back to the telephone. It seems to be the easiest for our clients to use. And now with smartphones, it seems to be the one that most people have. Because even if you can't afford a cell phone plan, you might be able to afford a smartphone and go to the library and use it on Wi-Fi. We see a lot of people that do that. I also think it's important to provide information using multiple channels. As we have gotten into the COVID-19 crisis here in Montana, we have been trying to do a comprehensive community education campaign to reach as many clients and social service providers as we can about all the information that's just coming out endlessly. And it comes out really fast. So between Montana Law Help, which Liz helped us set up 20 years ago, to using social media channels to today, we're doing a Facebook Live event where our housing attorney is going to talk and just talk in general about some of the housing in Montana just passed an eviction directive halting all evictions a couple of days ago. So now she's going to talk about that. We're getting people, lots of people coming to those. But we're trying to provide using as many channels as we can. And then we have to consider what do you do with people without internet or a phone? So we're doing some radio ads and we're doing some newspaper tips. We have done a campaign for a long time called the Legal Tip of the Week, and it gets published in about 25 rural newspapers around Montana. And that doesn't cost anything. They all put it in just because they're looking, you know, in Montana, if you have a small rural newspaper, you've got you, you're publishing all of the all of the crime statistics and every call that 911 got, right? Or there was a cow in the middle of the road. So if we can say, here, this is a legal issue, they're all excited about the content. And then I encourage everyone, if you're trying to meet clients where they are to be patient, especially right now, our client base has so many things to deal with. And they may not get back to you. And like a lot of programs have you, if you don't call us back in three days, we're closing your file. We've kind of suspended some of that and said, we're going to give people more time to work with what they've got, right? And that's really where they are, not where we are as attorneys. Next slide. And then make it easy. And I wish I could hear you because maybe somebody can type in the box where that picture comes from. It's from a movie. So see if anybody knows. But you got to provide people with the right tools. And, you know, when we started doing remote work, we, we, a lot of our attorneys already had everything they needed, they just had to take it home, because they all travel, they're all expected to travel across the whole state. But we didn't have two monitors at home, and we didn't have the right chair at home or the scanner. And we've encouraged people to take all of those things home from their office. We purchased a bunch of our intake staff uses all-in-ones, which isn't a laptop, but it's not that hard to grab a monitor with a computer on the back of it and take it home, right? So making sure that they have the right tools so they can do what they need from their home. And then I think you need a remote work policy. And the reason I wanted to mention this is one thing I've seen coming out is that a lot of federal funders are saying, you can bill us for what you're doing at home provided you have a policy that allows you to telework. And so if you don't have that policy in place and people signed up on it, like, we have a policy, it also has a form. I'm happy to share it with anybody. I know there's been some policies going around on some of the listservs. But we're making sure everybody has a signed form that they have approval to work from home. So that if we ever get audited after this, we don't have to worry about it. And I think the policy should encourage people to work remotely. A lot of policies I see that may have been before this time are designed to discourage people from working remotely because of concerns, a lot of concerns about productivity. And then my last thing about making it easy is use your case management system to track productivity rather than micromanaging people and asking them what they're doing all the time because you're nervous that they're not actually working at home. And that happens with a lot of managers. You get kind of nervous that people aren't actually working at home. But they probably are because we all care about our clients. And you know the ones that might not be. So check in on them. But with other people, look at their time. Look at how many cases they're handling. Look at all that data that you have right there in front of you. Tart can tell me if anybody got the picture. Next slide. So we did get a guess of matrix. No, no older. I can't believe nobody in this group knows where that's from. I think you're sorry you would know where it's from. Additionally, Brazil is the other guess. It is Brazil. Excellent. There was also a comment asking for people to share the remote work policies. We do have a slide coming up with MIE's list of policies that they're gathering and Just Tech is going to cover remote work policies also. So we definitely have that on the agenda for today. Good. Last slide. And then I think the best thing you can do as a program when you're having all your staff work remotely is create community. This is a picture of all of our staff taken last fall at our all staff meeting. And we ask them all to make funny faces. And I will tell you the funniest thing about this picture is that there's a woman on the far edge who's standing up who has kind of just a smile on her face who isn't making a funny she looks exactly like that in every picture. The ones where we had them making faces, the ones where we had them laughing at each other, the ones where we had people just looking. The other funny thing about the picture is it's actually right near an airport. So while it looks like we're standing out in the middle of a field in Montana, there's an airplane right over next to us. But this is an example of people need to be able to have fun together even when you are online. And I'll tell you some of the things we've been doing to try and encourage that. I started doing virtual happy hours and we drew names out of a hat. So it's a group of random staff that gets together at four o'clock on different days and just talk. And if they want to bring a beverage to their happy hour, they can. We also do regular communication. It's really important. So it might feel like if you're a leader to over communicate during this time, we do once a week calls where I have all the staff that are in charge of different parts of the COVID-19 response, tell what they're doing. So we're constantly telling people what we're doing, how we're doing it, why we're doing it. We do, I do a lot of individual check-ins with people that I would never have done before, but I'm trying to reach out and talk to people. And we did it like we're doing funny things. Like we set up a Google Drive folder that has called My New Co-Workers and everybody's posting pictures of their pets or their kids or somebody posted her coffee pot because she didn't have pets for kids. And it's just kind of funny and a nice way to get to know people better, especially important things when your staff is working remotely. And finally, our April Fool's joke yesterday was I asked everybody to vote on, I said we were going to now provide everyone with an emotional support animal at home and I wanted them to vote on which animal they wanted and there was a picture of a cow, the same picture you saw at the beginning, a picture of a dragon and a picture of two of our staff dressed up for Halloween like somebody else's cat. It was very funny. The cat's winning so far, but we'll see by the end of the day today what wins. Just things like that that make it a little more fun to come into work when you're just commuting to your bedroom I think are really important. So you mentioned there that you were running Linux or outreach directly on Facebook. Could you talk about that a little bit and how those have been received? We definitely get a lot of referrals there and there's a lot of people who are a little nervous about being on Facebook. Yeah, we've been on Facebook for a while because it's where most of our clients are especially our Native American community uses Facebook all the time and we're on WhatsApp for our agricultural worker community. But we will do, we just post client-related things that link back to our website and our website's hits have gone through the rough since we've been posting things about COVID-19 and if you go to MTLSA, if you look up MTLSA on Facebook you'll find our page. We also that like I said we're trying today we haven't done one before but we're trying a Facebook live event with an attorney who'll be able to answer questions about housing. Now obviously she's not doing advice legal advice to people and we have some disclaimers around that. But we found it a very very effective way to reach clients and with Facebook you can pay for directed ads for directed ads targeted by geography and it's been really beneficial again to meet people where they are. That's where our clients are on Facebook right now. And if you don't mind mentioning how expensive are the Facebook ads? Are they accessible? It sounds like they've been successful for you. They have been successful for us and I, you know, they are they are so inexpensive that that expense does not rise to the level of me approving it. So it is not all that expensive. It really isn't, you know, I would say under $100. Excellent. Any other questions from the community before we move on to the next presentation? Thank you so much. I greatly appreciate the tips on how to build community online. It is so difficult to stay in touch with people when everybody's working remotely. And I'm happy to take questions whenever. Just email me. Thanks, Allison. And thanks, Sartre, for pulling this together today. So we at Chastak have had the privilege of working with a number of you throughout the past five or so years and even before that on a number of different technology related issues. And so we wanted to first kind of share some of our lessons learned not only in the past month, but throughout the work that we've done as far as responding to disasters or rapid shifts in the way that we have to work. So I think, you know, one of the first pieces and that Allison just proved and Esperanza will talk about later is we can do this and we can do it really well. It will take time and it will take effort and things right now I'm sure it feels like for a lot of folks that it's really kind of stressful and hairs on fire and balancing work and family and everything. But I just wanted to gently remind folks that like we can do this and we've done it before, we'll do it now and we'll have to do it again. And I think that this really helps set the tone and set the stage for when we unfortunately may have to do this again. There's not a one size fits all approach to moving your office to a remote distributed environment. I think we are slowly getting out of the initial information overload phase around moving remote. Obviously information will continue to flow. We will continue to share resources. But I think it's really important to remember that we're hearing a lot. There's a lot of webinars. There's a lot of emails being exchanged about what best practices are. And at the end of the day, you really want to focus on the one that works best for your organization. There's conversations about VPNs versus cloud versus different remote access software. And don't feel like you need to fall into one of the categories that everybody is talking about. There's obviously a reason that everybody's talking about that. But remember that the choices that you make about moving your office remotely need to be the ones that work best for you and your organization. Achieving full efficiency might not happen. We can get really close. But at the end of the day, we just might not be as efficient as we were in an office environment. And that's okay. I think that as a community, we can get very, very close. And we can continue to do really, really good work for our clients. And people are already continuing to do that. We're in a position where our work isn't going to grind to halt as advocates for low income people trying to navigate this current situation. And I think that it's just really important to remember that, again, that that's okay, that we may not be operating on all cylinders, but we'll be operating on most of them and we'll be doing that well. I think also this is going to happen in stages. So step one was getting everybody home and getting everybody at least connected to your environment, at least allowing people to call clients, to email clients, to access the case management system. I think many of us around the country are still in that phase. Some of us are getting into kind of the phase two, phase three. Let's make that efficient. Now that everybody's home, now that we have triaged, what is the next step? How do we move into kind of creating that efficiency? And then most importantly, how do we continue those client services? How do we move our clinics to virtual environments? How do we navigate the constant questions about how the courts will be handling various issues that our clients are having? Information is changing very quickly and I think it's really important to make space and time for this to happen over a period of time and in different phases. One thing to remember, especially around I think hardware and software purchases as you move remote, is there's a difference between a quick fix and a sustainable solution. It's okay that we're making snap judgments to make sure that our clients can get services and we're making snap judgments to make sure that our staff has access to what they need. But it is important to think just to know that this is a quick fix over this is part of a sustainable solution for the long term. And this may be iterative. We got somebody set up on an old use laptop so they could continue to access what they needed to access but know that that may not have been the long term solution for this person. We are in this for a longer period of time than I think folks may have initially expected, so we have to be ready for that. And the final one here, this community and the communities that we all work in are wonderful. We all have each other's backs. We are all on the same page. I think we all want to make sure that we continue to communicate with each other and make sure that we continue to communicate with the communities that we're working in. I think what Allison is doing with the Facebook Live is great. We need to make sure we continue to engage our client populations to see what they need from us and how we can make sure that we are changing our services to fit their needs right now. And so I think that that's really important. And it's important to remember among all the chaos that we have a really, really wonderful legal aid community all supporting each other through all of this. So now John has, I think policies came up earlier. So Just Tech and John have been working on kind of a sample remote work from home policy. So John's going to take us through some of the pieces of that. Okay. A quick switch to Internet Audio. For some reason, my cell phone service. So one of the issues now that everybody's working from home, we have a lot of new challenges with our Internet service providers. And so my business Internet service is now working at DSL speeds. We're slow DSL speeds. So we work together to build a draft emergency work from home policy. I want to thank Sartre for his contributions to that. I mean, there are a lot of work from home policies that programs have adopted over the past years. And I was also one of the folks who got to hear Allison talk about her work from home maybe over a decade ago, I'd say, at an MIE conference. So her program is certainly one of the pioneers. And I really, if she's offering, I would encourage everybody to call her or email her so that she can schedule the time. But really take advantage of her years and years of experience. And then certainly talk to your counterparts as well. So we're going to include a link to the draft policy in the stack and then Sartre will share it out separately. But I just wanted to go through a few of the considerations. So Sartre, if you move on to the next slide, just so that you have a little context for the draft. So again, it's different than a standard telework policy. This is at least as conceived, this is dealing with an emergency. It could be a hurricane or it could be a pandemic, but things are happening quickly. The environment isn't set up in an ideal fashion. And so we need to have a policy that sort of reflects and respects that. There are sort of both tech and non-tech elements to it. And a lot of these elements really need to be thought through by your team. I would not recommend just taking our sample policy and making it yours. I think that would be a disservice, frankly, to your team. As Zana was saying, every program is a little different. There's no one size fits all. But I hope that the elements of it are elements that make sense to everybody. I want to encourage folks to assess what other policies they have in place that remain relevant or how they may change. And the policy gets into that a little bit. And then obviously, again, work with your tech team, your legal work supervisors, your grant managers, think about sort of what the implications are across the board with this policy. Because it's really providing guidance, hopefully you're again sort of impressing upon folks that this is being thought through, that you're being methodical and thoughtful. And that you're acknowledging that it's going to be iterative, that everything that you're doing today is not necessarily going to be the same in another week or another month. Next slide, please. So again, one of the big things I think that's a little different about an emergency policy is that the risks are much greater. And so managing risk is a big component of this policy. It's really getting, I think we've always wanted our staff and colleagues to be partners with us in risk management. But it is critical right now that we have their attention. And so it's really upfront. I think the, I mean, if you want to think about it as deputizing everybody as a deputy chief security officer or data privacy officer. But that really needs to be impressed upon them. So we spent a little time going through some of the considerations that they should have in mind. And again, we tried to make this policy work for both advocates and non-advocate staff as well as supervisors. But you may want to think about additional elements in terms of risk management for folks in different roles. So for instance, HR or finance, you're accessing bank information from a home computer, that might be an even bigger risk for some. So again, why it's particularly risky, we're changing the environment quickly, we're iterating it, we're changing the tools we're using. People are using tools that maybe they're not familiar with or they're using tools in ways they're not normally using them. One of the providers we work with mentioned that what was a agreed upon practice but that wasn't really followed through, that folks didn't follow through with was using outlook for calendaring and it's like, well, now it's mandatory. That's happening. We need to see and understand where people are available, what they're working on. It's a good way for supervisors to know, oh, they've got a deadline using, again, Allison's point about the case management system. I couldn't agree with more but using the systems that manage your case workload in ways that maybe you could avoid doing before become critical now. Next slide, please. Supervision. Again, I think Allison sort of covered this but it's really important and I think I would just add that it's really important to think about how you're supporting your supervisors. They're going to have a huge additional workload because their supervision is not going to just be about the legal work, it's going to be about their work environment, their knowledge of the tools, their adoption, new practices and so it's really going to be critical for supervisors to the extent you can to have more support and maybe have certain responsibilities deferred or taken off their plates. For instance, if they're involving grant management or grant reporting, think about how you might share that workout so that they're not trying to do everything and take care of if they have a family, folks at home, dealing with home schooling potentially. There's so much going on here that we really want to make sure that both staff and supervisors are communicating and they're doing their best and again the scheduling, for instance, is again something that's going to change. They may find, oh, my child's falling behind, I need to spend some time during the middle of the day working with them on some coursework. I couldn't stress the supervision out so there's some elements in there in one section but also throughout the policy that relate to supervision and communication. Next slide please. Again, being thoughtful about the environment, obviously one of the upsides is like my dog comes into the office once in a while and gets a scratch. We can throw a lot of equipment out at folks and just take this home or here's a laptop but I think to the extent we can breathe a little bit and work through what environment's going to work well. Is it going to be the kitchen table that I'm going to have to break down each night? A lot of people don't have space. If you're in a dense urban area, you might have a tiny apartment with two people who are rarely there during normal times but suddenly they're thrust into this experiment. I think that's really critical. Again, as a manager or supervisor, trying to help your staff figure that out a little bit. Again, what are the things that are going to make that environment work better over time? I think, again, Allison pointed out a lot of these things. Is it a headset? Is it a monitor? Working a laptop may be great when you're in between hearings at a Starbucks or a coffee shop but that may not be the most sort of helpful way. You're looking down at your laptop, your shoulders, your neck pain starts to flare up. Then again, providing them some basic tech guidance. This is another area where I would say you want to work with your tech folks to tune that to the technologies you're using and then helping them navigate confidentiality and that shared environment. How do you maintain that sort of confidential conversation with a client or a colleague? Next slide. We're going to be posting up. The link has sort of been here. We'll make it more legible but we posted the draft up and you're free to use it. I would again just sort of stress that it's worth investing some time in tweaking and modifying it and having it make more sense for your program. If we can answer any questions or help with that, please let us know. I did post the link in the chat so it is there. Can we cut and paste it or directly clicked on there? I did get a chance to look at the policy and review it. It does cover a lot of different areas both the practical supervision oversight and security and tech. It's also under a creative commons by essay license so anybody can really take it, edit it, change it as long as they give attribution or credit. It is a free community resource at this point. We've got a question that came in here which is can folks talk about how they're working with or incorporating law students potentially in remote work or projects that they're working on? I'll give a very short answer there. I've got two myself that are working under me. One helps with social media and the other one with legal research and I use an online free tool called Kanban flow that lets me track projects and check in on them on a regular basis. They can add notes there whenever they're stuck on things and then we schedule daily calls on the days in which they're available. Definitely a great resource. I can just say real fast that we have our interns have gone to working remotely. We've worked with them on security practices like John was talking about. We're having them do research. We also are having them do some client work. Historically we had limited their access and legal server by geography so they could only get to it from the office. We had to open that up and instead give it to them by case. Only the cases they're working on are the cases they can see and that's just an extra security practice that we put into place but it seems to be working pretty well and our summer interns are already asking us what we're going to do if they're even going to be able to come and we've been talking to them about working remotely. Actually my first remote employee was from, worked out of Montana on the beginning of the LSN TAP grant. I had several AmeriCorps employees that worked from out there so it's definitely possible to do but the important part is that regular check-in process and making sure that you've got a way to interact with them in the community. I would say so I originally we call this for staff and volunteers the policy but I think that there's a lot of overlap between the policy that you'd have for staff and for law students or other volunteers. Obviously there'll be elements that won't be applicable and then your normal policies as Allison sort of just mentioned she normally doesn't let interns access the case management system outside the office. Well that won't work if the office is not accessible so there's going to be again sort of a context of the emergency and its impact on your other policies and what do you need to change as a result but I think it would be a good checklist certainly to go through. Does this apply? Does it not? For law students or other folks working again remotely who are not staff I think the one thing I have probably with stress is that they're probably going to be less familiar with your other policies and so your orientation is going to be more important and the need to be confident that they will reach out and ask questions went in doubt and not sort of launch ahead and do something that might compromise your your client's information. So there was a question here for staff who share living space with other individuals what are some ways to maintain confidentiality on calls meetings etc. I can take that real fast what we've done is really had conversations with people our remote so our remote work forum asked them questions so that we get the right answers what is your internet I want to make sure it's password protected and that it's not they're not in an apartment next to Starbucks and borrowing Starbucks internet you know I want to make sure that they're that they have a separate room to be in and that they can close the door when they're making phone calls I want to make them aware of what's issues and so it asks all those questions and they have to answer them you know what equipment are you using your own we require people as long as we have equipment to give them we require them to use ours but you know if they aren't then what are they using and how does that work and do we they have permission to do that and interns would have permission to use their own because we don't have enough to give to all the interns but I think it's about the conversation and about making sure they lock their computer at night making you know lock it when they walk away making sure they turn it off making sure the monitors aren't aren't set it away that somebody can just walk behind them and see it I mean I have a screen behind me right now which is just kind of funny because there's a treadmill behind it and I didn't want everybody to see the treadmill but it also keeps my family when they have to go to the bathroom which is over there you know from seeing everything I'm doing when they walk by right it's just thinking that through and helping your staff think it through it's just practical things yep definitely making sure that if they're using a computer that is shared that they set up a individual log in so that those files or other things are not shared it much easier if they're using a work computer but I know that a lot of the smaller programs do not necessarily have those laptops or those resources right well I'd add that again some some clients have laptops for advocates but they don't necessarily have laptops for all the other professionals working in the organization and so that's where it's becoming again a bit of a real crunch and also thinking through you know how those other professionals are going to actually work or what work they they they need to do given the context so there's still a lot of work there again in a small in a small apartment with with a few people I think just having a headset so right now my headset's off so at least they only hear one side of the conversation they don't need to hear the whole conversation that's for darn sure and then thinking about okay I'm talking an elevator with other people maybe you don't you don't mention their name you don't you try to stay away from the specifics you can keep your your conversations a little bit more abstract but I mean Allison's point but having that conversation having the supervisor talk with their staff or their volunteer about that environment and how it's going to work I love the maybe Allison would share out her form because I think that would be a really good starting point or maybe an ending point for everybody as well but having some sort of checklist to run through would be a great great way to go and so another question that we've got here what work our folks are doing now to plan for a backlog when we are later on in the pandemic i.e. committee committees to explore new processes or change things what type of planning stuff do people have in place currently to try to look forward to dealing with things as they expand so one of the things that we do anyway is we have a advocacy coordination group that's made up of of people from each practice area and the directors of advocacy and we've been turning that group to talk it meets every two weeks and we talk about what it's all about what people are seeing what issues are we seeing what intakes are we seeing becoming more you know becoming more frequent what and and so they're really we just took a group we already have and focused it on the future what do we need to be looking for in terms of resources to ramp up that's also how we have started all of our online content what questions are we getting and one of the things we found and our intake workers are saying is that a lot of the questions they're getting that are COVID-19 related they can be answered by our law health content and so they're not even getting to an intake stage they're just sending people to the content and then they're going oh yeah that answers my question thanks so I think we're trying to to deal with what we expect to be an influx by both really ramping up the content we have online and how we present it and then thinking about and talking about what where do we need the resources where can we move people around to the extent that housing becomes really I mean we have one housing attorney really for the whole state how do you deal with that well you put a call out for volunteers we've really ramped up our pro bono telephone advice project we've gotten a lot of people they can sign up for shifts using a tool called Calendly so they don't even have to interact with the staff member the staff fill the appointment they do the appointment and it's done it's a great way to get pro bono attorneys especially remote to do remote work like said we got that set up five years ago because we have to do remote work so it's not that hard to do and we're our staff is always happy to talk to people this is Liz I think that's I'm just going to add I think I think those are all great points and the one other thing I've been seeing in this area is where there are states or communities that have existing disaster response structures like in the Cal in the San Francisco Bay area where I am there's a long-standing coalition called the Disaster Legal Assistance Collaborative that came together probably six weeks ago to begin planning both the short-term response effort but to collectively develop field vision about what the long-term needs might look like and that group includes legal services providers but also law firms state bar representatives and then their linkages out to community-based organizations emergency response groups from there so I think those linkages and that existing structure will help help legal services programs stay attuned to what the what the longer term needs are broadly speaking in their communities and I think oh go ahead and this is F. I just wanted to add one other consideration when looking at you know how do you respond to things that might be coming up how do you anticipate is is the communication with community partners especially in communities who are speak other languages other than English and so we partner with can meet with different folks in the community which include the schools and we meet every other week we are doing these virtual meetings we we're doing that before this and we're doing we're continuing to do that I just got off that meeting before I had this one and looking at what is it that's necessary for the community out there what's what things are falling through the cracks so it's it's important that we stay in connection with the communities that we're serving and and have those networks in order to be able to determine as we're trying to figure out how how are we going to do this it has to be it has to include the input and the feedback from the community as well that's exactly what I was going to say this next question also kind of follows into something that I know you've been doing with the clinics which is any ideas or experiences how to protect people's phone number of staff when calling clients from their own phones star six seven yeah our attorneys to use six seven and we make sure that that well I'll talk more about that later okay excellent any last comments before we move on to the next section I would just add that again you know phones whatever you're doing with the phone system and there were actually there was a comment made on another webinar that like if you change your phone numbers that you're calling from is to text clients ahead of time to let them know it's going to be a new number so if things are changing just you know sort of thinking about what you know what might normally be a call that was accepted like it might be sent to voicemail or something and then just making sure that you you know like some some programs are just setting up a lot of individual Google voice accounts because they're free but understand the challenges of everybody having their own number that goes with them when they leave the organization and it's not something you control as an organization so there are some free short-term solutions out there for phone systems so if you have an old phone system that isn't accessible outside the office you might be looking at one of these you know internet cloud-based solutions on a temporary or as you know sort of Anna was you know talking about is it a permanent change I would just make sure you you really spend some time thinking through your voice and the long-term implications of it. Okay we're moving over to ProbonoNet and Remote Legal Services Support Guide. Great well thank you so much SART and TAP and hi again everyone SART mentioned I'm Liz Keith I'm the program director with ProbonoNet we were founded about 20 years ago and focus on bringing the power of the law to vulnerable communities through co-creating digital tools that increase legal support for the public and strengthen the work of volunteers and advocates in the civil justice sector working on tackling common justice problems and I think as we've touched on already we recognize in just this webinar that many of you are in very different places with your organizational and community needs some of you may be trying to stabilize your operations in this moment and others like Allison and her team have been working remotely as a staff and delivering services through these mediums for many years and are now optimizing and even expanding your strategies in some places but we know that you know all of us need to find routines new ways to build culture and new ways to work together and support each other in our organizations and in our in this community I think in ways that Allison and Anna and John all laid out so thoughtfully so whether you're on that stabilize or optimize end of that spectrum right now or somewhere in between we wanted to highlight in this segment a few resources that can help you and all of us meet the moment as our governor here in California Gavin Newsom likes to say in his daily press conferences regardless of you know of where you are today and the first is this publication the remote legal support guide a best practices manual for non-profit and pro bono innovation that was developed by pro bono net and the immigration advocates network in collaboration with 10 other organizations several of which are on this webinar today and span rural suburban and urban context this was in development for more than a year and released in early March before all of this was you know really in the foreground for us but on that the next slide we wanted to just highlight a couple of things that may be helpful as you're you're thinking about this this shift so the first is a survey that we did of 200 organizations about current barriers and practices around remote services and while about 80 percent of the organizations that we that we surveyed expressed enthusiasm for remote legal services many weren't confident that they could implement those programs effectively and as technology as potential barriers to doing so programs identified things like having sufficient staff having the right partnerships in place needing to stand up training and then knowing what the right technology is to use and while those are very real considerations I think the good news is that many of you through your experience with TIG funded projects or engagements in long-standing initiatives like statewide websites or online forms or online intake remote hotlines many of you and your teams will will already be familiar with this and know very well that technology doesn't exist in a vacuum and you need to think about these surrounding practices on that the second survey at right around this question of programs being concerned that they don't have the technical capacity to connect and deliver remote legal support again I think there's some good news there many of the projects profiled in this guide and that we've talked about today rely on ordinary and widely used technology to connect people who need information or services to assistance so that includes phone texting online services using email and creative ways there was a question earlier about the use of law student volunteers and there are now many live chat or live help projects in the country that that was a technology that was pioneered by Montana Legal Services Association and Iowa Legal Aid more than 15 years ago and then expanded in some states through scenarios you know very much like the one we're in today kind of rapid response and disaster scenarios there's some live help programs including one that pro bono net manages in New York where we're now looking at how do we leverage the the surge in interest from law student volunteers in expanding that service to new websites beyond law health New York or court health and potentially into to new websites or ecosystems so on the next slide the the the guide just the structure of the guide beyond sharing the the survey results if you just go back one start is that it contains it breaks down in very concrete terms the different models that programs are using in remote services so these may offer many templates that your programs can adapt whether you're focusing on kind of lower tech approaches or higher tech approaches and there are profiles of three projects by LSC grantees in the guide to out of Montana that Montana Legal Services Allison and her team have helped stand up a partnership with the courts and a health justice partnership and then a profile of a project that was led by Colorado Legal Services in which they created launched and then evolved five clinic models that increase legal resources to low-income communities in Colorado so I you know I think what may be helpful for programs that are either in that stabilizing moment or optimizing moment right now is to take a look at some of these and look at ways that programs have worked through some of the fundamentals around the program model workflow it also contains the guide also contains sample volunteer agreements a sample limited service agreement and other very concrete and tactical steps that can help you think about remote services not only as a way to meet current and urgent needs but as strategies that over the longer term can help you lay the ground work for new partnerships and services to address the long tail of this of the situation in more robust and comprehensive ways and the last slide that I wanted to highlight here in this segment were resources that have been curated and developed in the last six weeks or so that are now available in the National Disaster Legal Aid Advocacy Center and the Advocacy Center is an area that was stood up off of Disaster Legal Aid in the wake of the 2017 Hurricanes and Wildfires and is co-managed by Pro Bonnet and Lone Star Legal Aid but starting about five weeks ago we along with the Disaster Legal Assistance Coalition in in the San Francisco Bay Area began meeting and ultimately hosted two national conference calls last month that I think had about 80 people on one and more than 100 on another focusing on two areas one was to do some initial brainstorming and identification as kind of a national community to identify substantive issues that programs were seeing and will likely see in the weeks and months ahead and and then also to surface and capture what kinds of tools and strategies programs are using as they shift towards remote services so out of that there's now linked from this site a pretty extensive inventory in a Google Doc of legal issue areas that that programs in those calls identified again that just might help give you a little bit of sort of field vision about what to think about or or provide some insight on who else is doing what in the national community that list is also now being used by a an effort within the the Association of Pro Bono Council large law firm community to help develop additional kind of FAQs and content that might be helpful for legal aid and pro bono programs in the future there's also a list serve here that's been stood up with representatives from the nonprofit legal aid community law firms pro bono programs others and then we've tried knowing that there are other efforts in the community tried to really focus on curating links to really excellent collections of other resources that have been developed by allied networks in housing public health victim services elder justice arenas so those are available here as long in addition to an event calendar that we're doing our best to keep up with with the many webinars and trainings that are coming out so you know just generally if you have questions about who else might be working through similar issues that your program is working through whether that's related to remote services technology or some of the substantive issues and just how to organize and kind of network as a community in your region or your state please you know reach out to us if we can be a resource if we don't know the answer or if it's outside of our area of expertise we'll do our best to connect you to other resources or people in our national network and beyond that might have have grappled with similar issues so thank you thank you so much and wonderful guide it highlights several good organizations including several that I've worked with on other projects so thank you for sharing that a quick question here before I move on to the next section which is is this a time to be taking on volunteer attorneys are the late organizations looking for that and are there particular processes that you put in place for working remotely with volunteer legal staff yeah that's a great question I think that will depend in part on where your program is at this moment and if you have a strong existing pro bono program that you're looking to convert to an online medium that's probably going to be a lot easier in this moment than standing up a new one what I would say generally in our conversations with law firms whether that's firms here in California where I am or in New York and other parts of the country where my colleagues are the firms are saying you know what what to the to the legal services programs what do you need and how can we be supportive to you how can we adapt to the needs and the capacity that you have in this moment so you know really many of the firms have been incredibly supportive and helpful in being very proactive partners in figuring out how can they deploy their capacity in a way that will work with the needs of the legal aid program and the the needs of the community that those those programs are are serving there I think there are other kind of resources coming out you know that I've seen on on email listservs and other places around the question around support for volunteers but in the google doc that's linked from this advocacy center legal response page there's notes from that those first couple of calls about specific strategies and programs tools are using to supervise and support volunteers so I think you know that might be worth a look and we'd be happy to be you know a resource on more concrete strategies as well we've been using remote volunteers we've been using remote volunteers for quite some time and have a whole a whole bunch of of tools around that information little videos on how to use the case management system releases and I think that would be a whole webinar actually starts on using remote volunteers definitely I've been working with Northwest Consumer Law Center here and they've been using remote experts to cover some of the different legal issues that clients are facing in webinars and YouTube videos within the last week and a half so there's definitely some opportunities to take advantage of that expertise and bring it out to a broader audience using social media and other tools excellent we do have a pretty good amount of questions we've got two quick pieces for presenting still we're going to go through those quickly and then cover as many questions as we can we will also be hosting informal roundtables starting next Thursday where there'll be hopefully an opportunity to just cover people's questions and share knowledge in the community for our presentation we're going to start we're going to have a lease start out for us these slides they're looking at are for our clinics and I'll talk to those in a minute but if Elise if you can kind of share the experience of the staff attorneys at ELAP yeah um as Estee mentioned I am a staff attorney at ELAP um the ELAP staff attorneys are actually really fortunate in that we already had the ability to work remotely um before we were deep in the throes of the pandemic all of the staff attorneys have surface laptops that were able to like bring with us home or to work and put in a docking station our files are kept in a cloud-based server our client management is legal server which is also web-based we use docusign to get documents signed by our client um we have a phone program that's really neat called audience that allows us to forward our work numbers to our cell phones and it also sends us like an mp3 recording of a voicemail that's left on our work phones which is really helpful especially right now since we're not going into the office um in terms of in terms of remote lawyering it has been fairly difficult um there's a lot of changes going on right now um and a lot of challenges that we didn't anticipate um one of the main challenges that we're noticing um especially with many of our low-income clients that we serve is that they don't all have the same access to technology um and the resources that they typically would have used like the library to go and get documents scanned or print out documents they no longer have access to um so we're having to find creative workarounds to get documents um to us uh one example is I created a step-by-step guide for my clients with screenshots um to help walk them through how to scan documents to me using their cell phones um in terms of interfacing with the courts right now we're receiving new guidance on a daily basis pretty much um by last count we were at emergency order number 15 um but I may have missed one during this webinar um in terms of the family law realm the hearings are being really limited to emergency orders um since me and my colleagues work in domestic violence all of our work is continuing to go forward um but other civil litigation isn't really happening um everything's been switched to telephonic hearings which includes our clients and respondents in cases um except for parties who are in custody we're having to figure out how to submit things to the courts in a way that protects our clients um but also gets the information to the court there's certain information that you have to submit with an order um for a domestic violence protection order in order for that to be served but um we're really hesitant to send that via email because email is discoverable um so we're having to find these workarounds in order to protect our clients um one of the other things that we're dealing with is we don't really get acknowledgement or confirmation of our submissions right away even when we're filing emergency orders um we're learning to be really patient but continuing to advocate for our clients to ensure that nothing falls through the cracks um in terms of domestic violence cases which is primarily the work that I do um I'm not sure other people are recognizing this in their communities but we have an uptick of domestic violence particularly in King County I think it's up by 25 percent with the stay-at-home orders in place um the protection order advocacy office is started to encourage people to fill out documents online using legal atoms which helps survivors complete a full set of court documents for a domestic violence protection order um even when I was watching the news the other night I've noticed that they started to publicize that um on the news which is really helpful for clients who wouldn't normally receive that kind of information because it's really difficult to get information to survivors right now when everybody's stuck in their home participating I'm sorry that I'm going quickly tell me if I need to slow down um we've been participating in telephonic hearings which is also kind of actually we have two quick questions first what was the phone program that you mentioned um for forwarding um voicemails and um the remote access uh audience it's a u d i a n I think it's actually on the next slide too oh okay excellent um and then people were definitely interested in the phone scanning guide um we'd love to get a copy of that and share it widely yeah probably at six people who've asked for it already thank you I can send it to you um so in terms of uh participating in telephonic hearings with the court that's also kind of challenging um and it's really delayed a lot of the court process um which is particularly frustrating when you're working with a survivor um because everything is very high stress and um there's a lot of safety and lethality concerns and it's kind of having to um like reassure your client but also not knowing when you're actually going to be able to be heard by the court so you spend your you have to email the court with your phone number and your client's phone number and spend the morning waiting to get a phone call and then you might get an email saying we didn't have time to get to you so we're going to do it in the afternoon and then you'll spend your afternoon waiting for that phone call and then they might say sorry we did not get to you today so we're going to have to put you on the docket for tomorrow um the other thing that's pretty difficult is when you're in court you're able to stand next to your client and um really like advise them before they respond any question from the judge and we've had to find ways to get around that um I've set up a google voice number because I'm normally on my phone during the um hearings so that my clients can send me a text message if they have a question about what's going on so I can tell them like what is happening and what the judge is asking of them to say etc um there's the other really big challenge I think especially in the work that me and my colleagues do because it's domestic violence is um exposure to secondary trauma which is something that we talk about a lot but being in the office is really helpful for that because you're able to just talk to your colleagues and like debrief with them or like walk into somebody's office and vent which I've done to SBN more than one occasion um so we're having to find creative ways to debrief um we do weekly staff meetings now and weekly legal team debriefs with happy hours we've started sharing funny videos with one another one of my colleagues actually bought me a singing bowl or a meditation bell and I've started just sending videos to um my fellow staff attorneys just reminding them to take breath um but yeah we're all adjusting and I think the biggest thing for us right now is um to remain patient flexible um but then also continuing to advocate for our clients which is a balancing act at times so um SART do you want me to go ahead or do you want to do some questions now? Um okay let's go ahead and finish your presentation and then I'll get a few more questions before the next one. Okay great so um as I mentioned before my name is Esperanza Borboa and the program director and thank you so much SART for including us and and uh in this webinar and it's great to hear what everybody's doing and Allison I'm gonna want to talk to you later um uh and you've seen a um a shot here of a of a page of our timeline for transitioning to remote work um unlike the staff attorneys for our clinics they are in-person appointments and so the transition happened pretty quick and um you know we anticipated in February that we were gonna need to do this and started you know just kind of thought about what are we gonna need to do um and just started doing those things and that's been up there for a little bit this this page has been up there for a little bit so hopefully you've had a chance to look at it we've gone from the last week in February to beginning to plan for the transition to um the 9th of of March all our clinics are remote um and soon we found out we needed to do a shout out for more attorneys and got um really great response from attorneys um kind of what Liz was talking about those uh law firms that said yes we want to help so then the the the challenge is uh you need to provide some training for some attorneys online lieutenant issues or on UI and so we've started doing that um we've had three webinars thus thus far last week we had two one on veterans issues and another online lieutenant um rights uh for attorneys and today we had another one or we'll it's actually happening now as we speak but what was that yesterday no it was yesterday sorry there's so much going on it's kind of hard sometimes to keep track of when did this happen did we already do it yes we did uh we did win yesterday on the land or tenants rights for um community partners and community members and there was a we we maxed out on that one in terms of participants so we'll be doing it again and it recorded um and the reason we're going to do it again is because as we all know things are changing and what the reality is today around what is available and what we can do to support people around land or tenant issues or any other issues by next week those things are going to change hopefully they'll get better um and so it's incumbent on us to stay on top of that and to stay on top of what are the issues uh that are affecting the community so we know what it is that we should be putting forward doesn't mean that we have to do it and we don't have to reinvent the wheel that are there are other organizations with inking county or the state of washington that are doing amazing work and doing webinars and recordings and youtube and what have you and so we will put that forward and and share those resources with people so that we're not the only ones doing that all our staff are working remotely now and have been since the middle of march um we transitioned into that a little bit before we got to that point and then maybe we could go to the next slide start okay so the three steps and some of this you've heard from allison from liz um and and um is the three steps for us is communication communication communication and when we talk about communication it's um uh we mean communication with um um not just our staff but oh boy um it's communicating with staff it's being really clear and with an understanding of what is it that we're doing and who's responsible for what because i can as we're moving really fast we will step all over each other and before you know what we're confusing clients we're confusing attorneys and so we really have to have a clear understanding of who's doing what who's responsible for what um we so so having that for for this for the staff that are working our intake folks and the the person that's doing all the um the work around the know your rights workshops and the cles and what have you um um communicating with um clients is extremely important we um what we did is we made sure to inform clients um that were that we are doing remote um and to tell them to be ready to take their call so if they have an appointment at two o'clock on wednesday because that's when we have the clinic that and their phone rings um they're going to get a call from a block number at two o'clock on wednesday please pick up the phone if you don't pick up the phone the first time the attorney will call back a second time if you don't pick up the second time the attorney will we will ask you to please call us to reschedule because we're they're not going to be able to keep calling back and calling back and calling back so we'll just reschedule them and get them in as soon as possible into the next clinic and we've um I should mention that um before um COVID-19 we had 33 clinics that we did per month and after COVID-19 we are doing 45 we added 12 more clinics and we did that with the help of um law firm attorneys uh corporate attorneys that um want to help and so I mean we're still working bugs out of this um in terms of communicating with um attorneys um what we have asked them is to show up you know to to to be on the call because the first day that we did this I think was the uh okay it was the thursday uh anyway I have a date somewhere but the first day that we did this we had clients calling us saying the attorney didn't call me the attorney because it's hard to when you're working from home and if something else comes up you're going to deal with that if you have children at home you might deal with that and before you know it an hour's gone by and you haven't made that call to the client so um we just kind of reinforce that please please make sure that you're calling the clients at the time we told them to expect your call use uh star 67 to block your phone um and um the other important piece for attorneys is their notes once they met with the client so they email the notes with no identifying markers in the notes they just put one two three and we know that's client one client two client three we already know that that attorney was scheduled for a particular clinic so we don't have to figure out who who you know where what clinic that was for and um and we're able to put those notes into legal server um and we are also listening to the attorneys in terms of what kind of trainings do they need because we have we do have attorneys in the 33 clinics that we that we had before these are all attorneys that are practicing attorneys in their field for the most part and the additional clinics not necessarily so so we need to make sure that whatever training they need um we're staying on top of that and providing that training and so and because we have attorneys that practice in those fields it's not that hard for us to figure out where to go for that um the second thing is setting up staff and this has been mentioned many times is you know all the equipment and whatever it is that that we need and um and the mention earlier about taking care of ourselves of secondary trauma and just taking care of ourselves is extremely important um you know I had a meltdown last week it was it's this is hard and when you're when you're at home and I can't turn around and tell my husband I'm I'm I'm I'm sad and I'm just grieving because of this client and then tell him what happened I can't share that with him and it's just him and I here and so I called a colleague and I told I just had a meltdown and I am not a meltdown kind of person if you know me I you just not that kind of person but it was just too much I had already filled up and I didn't have anywhere so um I appreciated that that photo that Elise sent up a little bowl that you have um I think I'm going to print it out and put it somewhere in front of me so I see it all the time um and remind me to take that moment just you know a minute or two just to kind of reflect and and you know debrief myself um but that is extremely important because we're human and and everything that's happening is is very difficult um so the other thing is keeping leadership up to date we have let's see um for the program staff we meet every Monday we have a virtual meeting every Monday the directors meet uh twice a week and if we need to we need we meet more the legal staff meets at least once a week right Elise right and so there's constant communication and whatever it is that I'm in Oregon from a long time organizer so putting these kinds of things for me together is is is not a stretch but I pull in the people I need to help me think about what is going to be needed for it because I'm not an attorney and so I need attorneys to help me figure this out um so but keeping the leadership abreast is important for me because I can get ahead of everybody and start just working right start doing things and I we can't do that we have to make sure that we're talking to each other that the left hand knows what the right hand's doing so that um we have the most effective program possible um and services for the for the clients so I'm going to stop there um because I can go on but I'm going to stop there and so that we can do some questions excellent thank thank you so much for that presentation I'm going to go through two more quick questions here then I'm going to go through the last four slides that we have um and then close up with the any more questions I do understand that there are about 20 more questions or 15 or so in the queue we will be doing a round table next week and I'm going to give people some of the resources where they can hopefully answer some of these questions also one of them was does anybody have um any advice for submitting exhibits electronically especially when they're dealing um with kind of the impeachment process how do you file and I think a lot a lot of the answer to that is going to be very different in which counties you're in um because some counties will let you e-file so or most counties are adding some ad hoc e-filing options um and they're moving a lot of the hearings to um uh deposition based or um uh phone based um again we might need a little more context for that one in in particular um another question that we had um which is on um electronic signatures any advice people will have for um gathering collecting and getting signatures especially when people may not have a computer we um use docusign for that and our clients are able to sign documents with their phone um it's been really helpful for us especially in terms of situations where you need the client's actual signature like on a declaration that you're submitting to the court um I've seen commissioners throw out things where they like have a picture that has just been pasted in that little spot um but I haven't had any issues with docusign what we do is definitely a great tool yeah um for the court for court stuff um what we use for all of the things we need for LSE compliance or other our own releases and retainers um we just we just text people and use the e-sign standards and so if they confirm if they if they know what they're saying and then you confirm they set it afterwards through text and digital forms and legal server we get all our signatures that way and it goes right into the client's file it we've been doing that for a couple years it's really really slick and we didn't have to buy a special program excellent that's a great process there um I'm posting um in the chat three options on digital signatures um docusign which was mentioned um pandadox has made itself free during this um uh in response to the current crisis um and hellosign is um a lower cost very easy to use option there um the other thing is definitely check your local rules um those I have often or have recently sometimes changed for how they will accept digital signatures um sorry sorry okay go ahead um I was just going to say another thing to note um is that a lot of us are nonprofits and if you don't already use tech soup that's a really great resource to get a lot of these programs at a really low cost or free definitely tech soup has a wonderful discount and start on the the question that may have been about e-filing um there are two resources that just may be helpful there's the the self-represented litigation network for people that aren't aware of that uh they've made some resources available in um a COVID-19 resources page and then there's a robust discussion going on on one of their working group lists serves about how courts are transitioning or expanding remote services and then the national center for state courts also has stood up now a very robust resource center with information about you know where in person proceedings have generally been suspended where virtual hearings are now being made available that might be helpful and I just posted the link to the self-represented litigants networks COVID-19 resources that is definitely a great one we've got pretty seconds here I'm going to cruise through a few quick slides and then close things up the first thing that I want to mention is that there's a wonderful email list for LSM tap it includes about 600 legal services professionals with different levels of tech literacy a lot of the topics that we've talked about today have come from that discussion that we've had in on that list serve so it's definitely a great resource here I will put the link to that into the chat here we are also we've got a YouTube channel with about 300 videos on different tech topics April 2017 we did a whole topic on working remotely that included xander karstin and other professionals very little of the content actually overlap this and it's another hour and a half long on remote working mie has a very good resource up right now it's got about 30 different articles ranging from other projects policies it's aimed at managers but it has things like potential letters to send out to funders in this situation about what's going on letters for staff policies they're updating it daily and adding things from the community patricia is looking for more policies the things that we get from this webinar I will also be submitting to them to add to that repository they're also going to be coming up with some webinars and other community resources aimed at managers in this situation so I'm losing the slides there we are we're also doing a roundtable April 9th so next Thursday at 10 a.m. Pacific 1 p.m. Eastern the registration link is on the lsn tap email list and I will send or and on lsn tap.org it's more of an informal discussion there's not going to be presentation but there will be experts from the community and members from the email list there to just answer people's questions and talk about the things that you run into as you try to implement the things that you've learned about or as you respond to potential projects that you're putting together with the lsc grants that are I know people are applying for tomorrow so we're going to continue as long as there is need that community discussion happens sorry it's due today oh it's due end of day today sorry yeah I think by midnight eastern but yeah just thank you so much for that clarification but they moved it up okay thank you so much for that clarification and I will definitely correct that online wherever I've posted about that excellent I also wanted to say thank you to everybody who was involved in this Montana legal services elap northwest justice project pro bono net just tech national technology assistance project and funding for this was made available through northwest justice project as part of a grant from lsc we are a little bit over the hour and a half thank you so much this these slides will be available online we will post them to our blog we will also send out a link to the video within a few hours here after we go through editing it and put it up online thank you thank you so much for putting this on bye everyone thank you take care everyone bye bye um yeah there was a question here I will grab the resources from chat and put those into the follow-up email and into a blog post thank you for that I'll capture as much of this as I can and feel free to email me if there was something that we missed or if you have a particular question about this stuff I can definitely get you in contact with presenters or follow-up with any of the topics that were talked about here