 I want to start things off. I want to introduce someone who I have been watching for a long time now And I've had the pleasure of actually meeting for the first time today He's a lovely guy. He's so knowledgeable He is an amazing amazing person to be to it to have contributing to the crypto space So please will you give a great big London? And welcome all the way from El Paso, Texas From Right all right Rob Hold on first first Give it up for guy and his team aren't they doing a great job at this event. This is an amazing To get everybody out here fantastic work Man I I went a bit I went a bit out of myself for the welcome there I thought I thought I had to give you a kind of all-american welcome I hope I hope that didn't kind of throw you off too much. It was full of bravado and no Western skies I'll take it. I like how you did that. I was fulfilling a long-held dream. Rob. It's so good to have you with us today Thank you for coming all this way. Yeah, it was it was it. It was a quick trip I got to do a little Vacation gonna get to come here for lunch. I've never been to London. It's a beautiful place me and the wife Yes, thank you. Thank you go into Italy after this And I mean what else are we gonna do are we just gonna keep looking at our portfolios all day long Not something we want to do so let's just get together and then fill each other up with a little bit of hope him and reality So here we are That's right. That's right. We're gonna we're gonna tell it to you straight ladies and gents. So This discussion is kind of titled. Well, we're gonna talk about crypto tax. We're gonna kind of start off with that It's a boring it's boring but necessary folks You'll thank us later so we're gonna talk about that a little bit and then I think we'll just have us kind of chat about the Situation we find ourselves in right now I'm just gonna let Rob do most of the talking because I just I don't know about you But I just love listening to his voice amongst amongst everything else. Yeah, it's all voice. It's not face So Rob Before we before we go on can you tell us a little bit for anyone who doesn't know? Can you tell us a little bit about you and about how you got into doing what you do and your kind of situation at the moment? Yeah, I'm pretty much like everybody here I mean we got into crypto because we saw a pretty good opportunity and in the beginning. I mean when I was When I was younger, no one taught me about investing That definitely not my parents and definitely not the schools So when I got out of high school the first thing I did was what are the army? Came a 91 brava, which is an army medic and then I got out and went into Management and then found myself just doing entrepreneur type of things and As time went on I realized that I couldn't trade my time for money So I had to get into some kind of assets and do something that I actually appreciate. I mean, that's why we are all here right now That's pretty much it. It's pretty much it. It's great And when did you when did you start when were you like right? I know what I'm gonna do Start a YouTube channel. So well before the YouTube channel. I remember it was in 2015 2014 doesn't 14 when you started investing My son came my son came home from high school and he said hey, I got a great opportunity I got 500 bitcoins for $500 in this hard drive And I said What's a Bitcoin and he tried to explain it to me and I go Alan that makes absolutely no sense That'll never take off that is the dumbest thing. I've ever heard of in my life and I let 500 bitcoins go All those years ago and at just two three years later I realized wow that was the biggest Investing mistake I could have made but here we are and in 2017 I got into crypto just like I think you know What let me just just a quick question for everybody here Who here has been investing in crypto since 2011 anybody? Geez I got to talk to you 2012 2013 14 15 16 16 16 17 Okay, here we go. Here we go. Here my guys 2018 19 20 Yes 21 Look at that 22 Ah, I'll talk to you later So look look real quick if you just got in 2021 I understand your pain because I mean guys are investing in 2014 after 2013. I got in 2017 and lost in 2018 70% down So I know when you see guys like like me on the stage, you're like, why is that guy laughing? Why is that guy so happy? It's not because I'm ecstatic about the market that we're in It's just because I know exactly what's gonna happen because I've already been there So if you were just sitting around right now and you're in 2021 you realize like shoot I got to tell my significant other I the portfolio went down this much As time goes on the things will work themselves out in the market real rebound The question is when and I can't tell you that because I have no crystal ball I just try to give you the the most facts that I can give it Just give you a little bit of perspective without too much. Hope you and that's why I like being here with guy She does the exact same thing Yeah, yeah, you're right and Do you know something that I something that I've talked about a lot with people over the years You know people say especially when I talk about the history of Bitcoin, you know the early days of crypto It's like, oh man, imagine Imagine if you got into Bitcoin when it was five cents or Imagine if you got into Bitcoin under a dollar or ETH at the crowd sale and I always think yeah, there's Obviously some people got in there and but so few of them have held on because I mean I remember Bitcoin going to a thousand dollars and I remember thinking surely people must be selling now like that's it people People are gonna take those profits. Who could have possibly imagined that it would climb any higher I mean a thousand dollars at the time just seemed insane Really? No, it's yeah, and the same thing like so today. We're sitting at what's the price of Bitcoin? I'm sure somebody knows here Yeah, it's pretty fine So imagine imagine what this is right now Imagine like three or four or five years with the price of Bitcoin could be because I remember in 2017 when I first got in I remember listening to Roger Veer remember and he would tell us he would say or even Even the cafe would say where it's gonna go to and I was like There's no way it can go to 10,000 20,000 and 30,000 was ridiculous and now here We are out here and it's not just of course Bitcoin There's some pretty great projects out there as far as altcoins But just to get there. It's it's hard to even think about and at some point it will rebound the question Question is when answers on a postcard people so Rob, so let's let's talk tax. Okay, because I think when you know when so many of us started off in crypto We just thought yeah tax. Yeah That's fine They don't know how to tax it will be all right And now I mean it's a it's a sign of how much the industry has grown Hasn't it that the fact that the regulators the fact that the IRS in America HMRC here in London boo here, you know Yeah, can we just get a boo for HMRC? Really rich baritone there as well, I love it, you know, it's a it's a It's an indication of how far this industry has gone that yeah They want to tax it now then and people are now asking themselves, you know, how can I? How can I maximize my how can I maximize my gains? How can I minimize my tax and Rob, I mean you've you've walked the walk on this one. Am I right? Yeah, I've tried So first of all when me and guy talked about this like what we want to talk about This couldn't be the most boring subject of all time just on paper just to say let's talk about tax Nobody cares about that. It's just it's just a big snooze fest But if you think about it, there's a couple of things first of all look how far we've come since all those those years ago 2009-10 when politicians would even talk about it governments that even know what it was and then all of a sudden now They're talking about well, we'll make it illegal tender and also we're gonna tax it So when people talk to me about how crypto and digital assets are just gonna go away I'm like, no, they won't know they won't because there's too much money to be made by taxing Crypto and digital assets. Do you think that countries and governments and politicians are gonna let that kind of money go? Are you out of your mind? So they're gonna tax it and that's just how it is. So the real question then is How do you minimize your taxes? And I see a lot of heads shaking right now. So let's just say You could go someplace What's the capital gains tax here capital of capital gains capital gains. Do you have capital gains tax? Yeah, yeah, we got CGT. All right, how much 30 20. I think it's about I think it's about 20% of you're in a higher bracket So am I right? Well, let's do some quick math. You make a million dollars and 200,000 goes directly to the government. How's that sound? Or let's say you have in a corporation That you have to have taxes in the US it's between 20 and 35 percent on top of that corporation that gets taxed Well, that's a bummer, right? Well, what if I told you there's a place where instead of you paying the government 20% of capital gains tax you pay them this much You pay 0% in capital gains tax and let's say you have an LLC or an S Corp or a C Corp And instead of paying 20 or 35 percent you pay this much 4% that sounds good, right? So instead of you actually paying the government you get to keep all that money Doesn't that sound fantastic? Now here's this now. Here's the catch So if you can do that all you got to do is move to a place like okay, that's all right because I'm all the way up here But if I got to move to a place, I got to move my family. I Got to give up some of my friends I got to stay in a certain place and I got to go through a lot of Regurations or different things that I have to do it becomes Sometimes not the greatest thing ever but however, I'll just say it like this What I did was I moved to Puerto Rico and me and my wife talked about it And I said look if we can move to Puerto Rico and pay 0% in capital gains tax for all the investments that we did It's almost like the government is telling me We're gonna pay you to move and that's essentially what happened. That's what we did So that's that's the that's the long and short of capital gains tax Moving to different places and there's other places. There's Portugal. There's the UAB Where else Dubai Dubai is a great place and then Asia. I think Malaysia's pretty Malaysia as well, isn't it but so The thing is though as for people who are like want to try to try to minimize these taxes It really comes down to this planning Because right now we're not in the greatest market, right? I mean me and a guy are gonna talk about bear versus bull in a little bit. I think But if we're not in the greatest market, wouldn't be wouldn't behoove ourselves to plan these things out now Before we get to a point where I mean God forbid we're all multi-millionaires. How awful would that be? But if we are all multi-millionaires and we have to pay all these taxes Would that be okay or maybe instead of like making the multi-millions? Maybe it's a hundred thousand two hundred thousand then we're looking at forty percent of taxes So to make these plans now is just like your investment strategy that you're doing whether that be trading on leverage, which Sure, if you want to do that, it's not my thing swing trading Dollar cost averaging or just sitting and holding and buying and holding I think the time to really think about these things is today because I got to tell you in 2017 I didn't think I would be Moving to Puerto Rico and minimizing taxes and trying to move funds around and have a YouTube channel and talking to guy over here I Just didn't think what happened and it comes up pretty fast So if you're gonna think about it think about it right now because that day is coming faster than you think for Wonders for arms people Robert yeah It's so interesting to hear you talking about that having you know having taken this step yourself and we were discussing earlier Weren't we there's it's you know a lot of people just think oh well I'll just I'll just move you know just up six Portugal sounds nice Puerto Rico sounds. I like Puerto Rico Oh, you got a comment screen is can I ask is the is the swimming pool in your video? Is that in Puerto Rico? No, both of those are green screens I'm just kidding. I just kidding every asset if the pools are no they're not there So we have the house in Puerto Rico. It's just a it's just our backyard and the one in El Paso is we've had that house for 18 years or so so wow yeah, but yeah That's what it is and that but there is so much planning involved isn't there because you have you have kids You have a you have a family and yeah four kids two grandkids Wow, so that's not easy and so this idea of you know this idea of upping sticks I mean, I'm sure there are I'm sure there are single people out there amongst us or maybe part of a couple who just think Yeah, let's let's do this Let's let's go but I think for a lot of a lot of people out there There's there's so much to consider, you know, you're okay, so you're moving to this place You're gonna pay a whole lot less tax, but where are the kids gonna go to school? You know what sort of what sort of lifestyle are I guess are they gonna have out there just to say nothing of what? You guys are gonna do it's just it's just something to think about like I think people here in London You wouldn't have any problem with the driving in Puerto Rico because it's the exact same It's like people just Everything's just like a suggestion of where you want to go and then they just go that's exactly Yeah after you know And then so then you got to think about like well Do I want to Uplift my family and do I want to move there because in in Puerto Rico? I've met a bunch of crypto oj's that are there and they've told me the same thing They're like, you know what it sounded good at the time But there's some times I wish I wouldn't have done it because of family or Other issues with businesses or things like that So if you're gonna move these places like Portugal or something like that then for for crypto minute or tax minimization Just think about it real real hard before you do it But I will tell you it does It is nice on the pocketbook and the bank accounts that you can do it But again, it's all about planning and getting there to that next step Absolutely, absolutely, so Rob, let's let's talk about the market. Shall we let's talk about the state we find ourselves in at the moment now I I saw you on the channel the other day. I've seen you a few times. You're saying we're in a bear market well, yeah, I I think and And you have to remember something is that Me and guy mostly me I I'm not gonna be a hundred percent correct I have no crystal ball and all the different people that are out there that will tell you like it's gonna go to the moon It's gonna be the most fantastic Hopium thing of all time. They have no idea either So when I say these things I can just tell you what my experiences aren't where I see things going But I could be wrong Right now. I see it's a very it's a very bearish sentiment out there And if we take a look at the definition of say a bear market We're taking a look at and we just look at a definition 20% drop from all-time highs within a certain period of time frame then we take a look at also the sentiment that is out there and Besides this room of all you people I'm pretty sure you guys are pretty bullish. You think it's gonna happen It's great But there's a there's a larger ecosystem of investors out there I can tell you the sentiment and greed and fear index is still hovering around depending on the day between 22 and 28 which is pretty low So the sentiment is there the all-time high drop. I think 69,000 to what we are now 35 Maybe we're at yeah around 38 37% So if it's not a bear market Lord help us. I would hate if this is the bull market Okay, I told you we weren't in the Hopium business ladies and gents Yeah, I think I mean I hear what you say Rob I think we yeah, there's a lot of bearish sentiment out there the indicators and yeah I should I should say as well. I have absolutely no guarantee that I will be right either I mean, this is the this is the tricky thing, isn't it? You know people people look to us for advice and they look for us for I guess Answers a lot of the time one of the things that I've noticed most about the channel when we put a video out Especially kind of off our main channel one of the things that always does really well is when we do a kind of Emergency market update, you know, sometimes we'll do it on coin Bureau clips are kind of second channel Sometimes we'll put it out on tiktok or Instagram or something like that It's always amazes me how much you know when the market takes a dip How much people just they want some answers they want to know why their portfolio is in the red Why yeah, and so like every time I every time the market drops It's the same thing like there's we think we know the reason but there's a lot of different reasons out there It's like soccer these says, you know, I know nothing I mean and the older that I get I realize just how much I do not know But I will say that I know that there's some indicators behind the drops But the grand scheme of things is the exact same The crypto market is strong. It will be strong. It will continue to grow. We're at a a two No 1.8 trillion market cap. Do you know what do you know what the market cap of gold is? It's like 11 trillion dollars. How about the stock market? It's a hundred trillion dollars. How about real estate? It's 292 trillion dollars. How about derivatives? It's one quadrillion dollars. That's a real number I had to look that up quadrillion So when I see the things and the problems that that crypto can solve it's always the same thing I mean right now. It's a bad. It's a bad day. It's a bad week. It's a bad month It's about quarter but in the long run one two three five years I think we're all gonna be happy that we are where we're at Hell yeah, hell yeah As I said earlier, there's I kind of yeah, I'm I'm sort of with you Rob I think I could say the bearish sentiment is out there I think there are there are a lot of factors suggesting we're not there yet We could go lower. I mean we're still setting higher lows. We're still seeing we're still seeing so much investment Like I was talking about earlier and one other thing that I noticed especially from This was from some of my conversations. I had with people in Miami Talking to some of the people there and a lot obviously the Miami conference was a real it was so corporate focused Everyone was there to do a deal. It was it was extraordinary and but the a lot of what I think is going unreported at the moment or that we're perhaps not paying enough attention to is The amount of adoption that is going on in other countries in places like Asia Latin America Africa, you know and it kind of falls off the radar a little bit because a lot of the time this is just people, you know, maybe buying $10 worth of Bitcoin Transacting in really small amounts that aren't gonna set the world on fire that aren't gonna make the headlines anytime soon but the thing is That there are hundreds of millions of people doing this There are people working on creating exchanges that are compliant with Sharia law Opening. Yeah, it's it's extraordinary and the growth that is going on kind of under our noses I think this is the big unreported story at the moment Well, I mean this is why like I know there's a lot of technical analysis people out there And and that's for you traders way smarter than me, but when I take a look at it that's why I like to Read the news take a look at the news listen to guy listen mother a youtuber just to keep myself abreast of what is going on behind the scenes because remember like 2014 there was no governments talking about there was no institutions getting it There was no talk of legal tender. That's ridiculous 2017-18-19 was the same thing 2020 now we get the Paul Tudor Jones. We get the hedge funds We get the legal tender and not just not just of one country not in El Salvador, but in Central Africa the Republic of Central Africa So if we take a look at the things that are going on the rails are being built I think there's just a couple of things that need to get done So we can move to that next step and one of those This is not gonna go over well Try it anyway Rob is a little just a little regulation Just a little just a little bit of clarity about what it is all we got a deal is what's a commodity? What's a security? What is the currency? If the OCC can take one part at the CFTC can take the other part and if Gary Gensler Can ever get and figure out what he wants to do and call whatever he thinks is a security Then we can move forward and these institutions can actually make some things happen Just the problem is just getting that over the hump I don't think Gary is the guy to do it and I will say when Gary first got Elected to Commissioner. I was like this guy's gonna be great because he taught at MIT and I was super duper wrong about that We were we were so we had such high hopes of Gary didn't we? Gary you let us down man. No, it was yeah, it's been a huge disappointment. I mean, I think I Get the impression that that Gary Gensler is you know, he's not only kind of there's this different. There's this sort of regulatory Salad over in the States isn't there as you say you got the the OTC the the CFTC all these different bodies the Everyone's kind of fighting for a slice of that Regulatory pie, but I get the impression also at the time kind of fighting to not get a slice of that because I mean Here's the thing like if you if you're resting on money Where are you gonna put your money right now? Well, you can leave it in money That's some like grandparents told me put it in a savings account at 8.5 percent inch or inflation sounds like a plan not a good plan Oh, so what else you put it into what we can do into the hyperinflated market for equities What's gonna happen there? I think we know what's gonna happen. And what about real estate me my wife invests in a real estate It's a great investment tool, but right now everything is so hyperinflated there too. How can you get into real estate? So where do you put your money? Well, if there was a little bit of regulation tell us where to go and I think if there was some clarity Maybe then these big institutions that are sitting on the sidelines that are just doing things by proxy investing in a micro strategy You can say you know what I know what I want to do I don't want to keep it in money because it's a it's a melting iceberg I want to put it into crypto and digital assets because it's a big asymmetrical bet This is the problem though and we can't get over that home Man, it's yeah, it's evolving so quickly everything's happening so fast out there I mean, do you think is it fair to say that the most the most powerful man in crypto right now is Jerome Powell? I think it's guy from coin Bureau. I Told him to say that it was a condition of coming over he has to say that checks in the mail No, I mean here we are like How many of you could have imagined? Just a few years ago paying such close attention to what the Fed is thought the Fed is doing It's it's like we're all kind of metaphorically Crouched outside the door of the room where they're having this meeting. It's like, what's he gonna say? Is it gonna be 50 is it gonna be 75 what? Jay tell us we have to know It's like it's like the cheese may or the gossip as we say it's like what do you say what do you do because that's Unfortunately, that's what the market is kind of I'm like we always we say it's priced in it's priced in but I gotta tell you if if They would have came out with Jerome Powell would have came on and said, you know what we're gonna go point seven five Or even one I can tell you that would not be priced in so it's a good thing We went point five so again when we talk about planning these things like over I always talk about this When in doubt zoom out So right now when we zoom into these markets not the best thing But if you zoom out six months a year two years three years if you got a like a five-year plan and crypto I think you're gonna do you're gonna be pretty happy. It's just it's just it's like a lynch says Everybody has the brain power to invest the thing is do you have the stomach for it? Yeah Wow, I couldn't have put it better myself Rob So let's let's round things up Here we are, you know, we're we're in a bear market. We're not in a bear market who can say none neither of us can can say for sure but Looking at the months ahead. I can I'm willing to I'm willing to put it down and say all I know is The we're in for volatility It's gonna be it's gonna be we're in for a kangaroo market. That's for sure Yeah, I think it's gonna be great for traders range bound traders. They love volatility So this guy this is your time to shine everybody and this is this is just my time to do the same thing I did in 2018 which was just lowly dollar cost average buy up Bitcoin. I'm her buying Bitcoin at 3500 4,000 Ethereum at a hundred bucks Cardano at seven cents and on down the line and it's I think it's the same thing repeating The technology is just getting better, you know, it's and again if in doubt zoom out ignore Kind of ignore the the number side of it and look at focus on all the technology focus on all the progress that's being made Behind the scenes, you know the likes of Cardano So much building going on them. We've got the merge coming up in 18 months time in some time. We'll figure it out Not quite sure when I Will say this though. So everybody here I died I will just say one thing is that you know, we talk about front-running, you know We want to front-run the banks front-run the institutions, you know that everybody here is pretty much front-run The large institutions. I mean think about that. I mean, especially you guys have been in 2016 17 2011 I mean you front-run Micro-strategy you front-run all the banks you front-run all the countries. It's definitely front-run the Federal Reserve So you guys and ladies are here and you're ahead of every single person out there And you're at the very precipice of what's about to happen. I don't know how long much time is going to be But I think you're in the right place Well, Rob, I think we should wrap this up now. I want to say thank you so much for coming along today Thank you for coming all this way. I mean, I know you get to see London You're doing a bit of a European tour as well You're kind of tacking a holiday onto the onto the end of it, but I really appreciate you coming I've I've admired your work. I've loved your channel for so long It's it's just great to to go there and get the facts no hype No, hope him and it's you know, it's what we try to do as well But you're just you do it in such a great way And I really admire what you what you do and your attitude to it and I just want to say on behalf of everyone I think Rob. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you. Thank you. Thank everybody. Have me Rob from digital asset news Yeah subscribe Or I'm coming for you