 Welcome back to the Think Tech Hawaii studios. This is your next episode of Security Matters Hawaii, and today we have a guy who's been traveling the country sharing some great information. James DeMails with us. He's the author of What's Your Plan, and we're going to talk about planning, emergency response. We're going to get into what it takes to help protect your family and be a little safe right there in the community. James, thank you so much for joining us. I know you're a busy guy. Andrew, thank you for the opportunity. Great, so we're going to, I'll tell you what, first of all, since I don't have you in the studio, why don't you give our audience a little bit, just a little bit of your background. I read it myself, but a little bit of your history. Absolutely. Andrew, thank you for the opportunity to connect James DeMails 28 years in the security industry, 21 of which I was with the NASA County Police Department on my own in New York. I went for a master's degree at a Delphi University, and for the last seven years I've been kind of running any event security lane, and over the last year or so I've been focusing on family sitting being prepared for this. Yeah, and the title of your book, What's Your Plan? I was really happy to see that it was family focused, because this is an area, you know, a lot of us that I think are in the security industry, oftentimes take many of these things for granted, and if you're in the industry, you tend to be around people in the industry who take this stuff for granted, but the average guy out on the street maybe never gives a thought to what they can do to protect their family. So I love the focus of the book, and we're definitely going to get into that. I always try to get, pull a little something out of my guests first. I know you're busy with your schedule and all those things, but from a security perspective, you know, if you look at the country and look what's going on, when you can't sleep at night, what does keep you awake? Well, certainly, you know, we are definitely a politically polarized nation. So obviously we have a lot of different interesting and controversial topics from, you know, gun control and mental health, and but certainly, you know, challenges continue for all of us, and trust that we do your care as security leaders. So certainly on a day in and day out basis, what keeps me up is just the ability to make that connection, to kind of ease those fears out there in society by educating the public on knowing what to do in times of crisis. Wow, that's a, it's such a good point. I was in a session with Professor Tom DeLong from Harvard this past week, or last week, and he, his whole session, he spent four hours with us to drill down to getting vulnerable and connecting with other. And you know, I think maybe there's a lot of that missing. You know, we happen to be that first person who may see when a friend of ours, or a family member is really starting to struggle. And it's going to, it's really going to be incumbent upon us to reach out to them, maybe have a difficult conversation. Maybe it's a long conversation. It doesn't end quickly, but to try to, to try to get them to recognize that they're struggling and get some help before things escalate. You know, absolutely. And certainly having those types of conversations and being out front, you know, places us in a position of strength at best deal with the challenges. So certainly an awareness, certainly sharing information, and having invested interest in your own personal safety and security is part and parcel to being in the best position possible. Yeah, so did tell me, what was the, what was in, for those of you who haven't read it, I don't know what started, but what's the, what got you really prompted to go ahead and write? You know, obviously you'd been in the industry, you were working in event security, what got the book started, I guess, is the, what put pen to paper? Pen to paper, it's a great question. And for me, it was more of a personal matter where we were out at the mall and kind of walking around and I was with my family out on the second floor in a suburban mall in Durham, North Carolina. And all of a sudden the lights went out. Wow. And we kind of looked around and everybody was just kind of, you know, desensitized to the world around them. They were looking down at their phones and they were tweeting and texting and, you know, my son, Aiden, who's 14 now at the time he was 13, he said something to me as a dad that really just kind of, I was really awestruck by, you know, certainly his awareness to the world around him. And, you know, from that moment forth, we exited the mall and, you know, on the way home, we started to talk about what we would do if something unthinkable, unimaginable would happen in that kind of a space. And Andrew, that really was the impetus for me, again, entrenching the industry for over 28 years. But when it comes from your own family, you take a look at and you say to yourself, what can I do really, you know, to share this information, educate my family, place this in the best position possible, and go out and share that information with moms and dads around the country to place them in the absolute best position possible to keep themselves safe and sound. Yeah, and we're talking about this a little bit before the show. You know, I've often wondered what there's a, there seems to be a, I'm not sure the word I'm looking for, but it seems that people don't want to talk about security like seriously. Is it going to be one of those sort of off-color topics, or it's got some negativity around it, or perhaps it's just fear, you know, of the sort of the unknown? What's your sense of that as you talk to people, do they go, wow, this is a good idea, I've never done it, or do you get the sense as you talk to people that, you know, there are some people doing it, but we're just not proactive enough as a community or as a country? Great question. There's many different points of view, and obviously as I mentioned earlier, we're certainly polarized, but I guess it really just depends where the person is, in terms of their own personal experiences. On a personal note, you know, my wife's a very good friend, was in the audience, you know, at the Las Vegas shooting. She has my book, and she's been struggling, and she can't really get past chapter one. So it really just depends where you are. You know, we saw out in Thousand Oaks, obviously some of the folks that were in Mandalay Bay were also, you know, inside that venue. So it's really just a tragedy for some people the second time being, you know, being involved in that kind of scenario. So your question really just depends where you are and what kind of experiences you've had in your life. And I think certainly there's a great deal of fear out there, but through education and knowledge, we can empower people on being more proactive. And I've talked about this quite, quite honestly and quite candidly. Some of my best friends, I'll meet tomorrow, you know, at ISCE, the FBI agents, very, very smart people, and they talk about motives. And certainly motive is important in understanding why people do heinous crimes, but why can't we just change the conversation and get out in front, have the awareness, do what we can do, again, to place ourselves in that great position before law enforcement respond to the scene, because I spent 21 years in law enforcement. I know firsthand, it can be frustrating. You do the very best you can with the resources you have, but as we've seen, Andrew, time and time again, over the last year since I wrote the book, most of the bad stuff is over before the good guys get there. So what can families do in terms of their own situational awareness, again, not to be fearful, but to be empowered, to have that conversation, to get out in front of the challenges, and again, to place themselves in that position to face the unthinkable, the unimaginable. And you brought back the response time, and I had David Sellers on here. He's former Seattle PD, did a lot of work with warm teams, getting fire and EMS type first responders into a scene where it's still warm. And I'm not sure if all the public understands that when law enforcement shows up, they need to stop the problem first, and the casualties are folks that need help. That's not really their first job. A lot of people don't know that. Did you find that people, the awareness of what's supposed to happen at a site when responders do finally arrive? Is there much awareness out there from your experience? Well, certainly, DHS, run high, fight, see something, say something. Those are all very good educational tools that we can share with the public. But I still think that people don't really want to think that the unimaginable is happening. We look at Jason Aldeen, he was up on the stage, he thought it was something related to the speakers. We look at certain things in Europe where there is cause for celebration. They think it's fireworks when, in fact, it's actually gunshots. So we've got to change our awareness. Again, not to be fearful, but to say, maybe in fact, this really is something bad that's happening. But again, we're out in front because we've already had this discussion before we walked into that space on what we're going to do if we're faced with that kind of crisis. So again, it's an educational component. It's getting, it's certainly not from a fear-based, perspective, but it's just getting out in front. I always talk about leading from the front and leading without fear. And certainly fear is not, it's not an option. It's not part of the equation. So we empower ourselves. We educate ourselves. We assist law enforcement by being educated safe citizens because we're out in front of the challenges. And I think in those incidents, probably prepared citizens who know where the exits are because they took time to look could be a part of the solution for others who weren't very prepared to help get them out. I did get a briefing at InfraGuard earlier this year on the Mandalay Bay event. And just the exiting of that volume of people was problematic. And there were those who were spent a lot of time just helping people get out of the site because they knew what to do, whereas many others did not. So that's, the education component is huge. And I'm wondering, we definitely going to push the book. I mean, it's like three bucks on Kindle. You got to get this book. We'll get into that in our second half for sure. But the education, it isn't done at lower levels. This book sort of targeted that adult, the parent population out there to take care of your family. Do you think there's an element there that we could get down to a lower level to the college kids and the Haskell kids and even younger kids to start to build this awareness about looking around instead of looking down at your phone all the time? The terrific question. And as we talked before, we went on air. But 11 hours a day, the study showed most adults are on their smartphones. So how do we break away from that? And how do we get that knowledge out? And it's certainly kind of from the bottom up and the top down. Or we look at Parkland, and it was a colossal failure from the top down and the bottom up. But we need to learn our lesson. We need to be out front. And that scenario, the students now have become really active and engaged in the process of getting the information out. But let's take it a step further and let's have community meetings and let's have a grassroots campaign. In terms of education and awareness, you've mentioned middle schools and high schools and universities. And we talk about the book. It's broken down into eight chapters. It's very easy to read. It's not your typical security practitioners guide. It's written for moms and dads and families on knowing what to do, with face with challenges in almost every single vertical that we're seeing on a daily basis. So maybe education is very important. And certainly, professional sports does an amazing job. But they have access to DHS and FBI and the Joint Terrorism Task Force. I'm concerned about the mid-sized venues, the symphonies, the festivals, the carnivals, the high school football games, where maybe those folks don't have the kind of resources that we would see on a professional level. Yeah, and even like we had the movie theory event in Aurora, right? You know, basically a fairly small venue with a massive problem. So we're going to step through, I think, some of those scenarios in part two of our show today. We're getting kind of close to the break. So why don't we do that now? We'll go ahead and cut to a one-minute break. We'll be back in just a minute with James DeMayo and we'll talk about what's your plan. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. I sang this song to you because I think you either are cool or have the potential to be seriously cool. And I want you to come watch my show where I bring in experts who talk all about easy strategies to be healthier, happier, build better relationships, and make your life a success. So come sit with the cool kids at Out of the Comfort Zone on Tuesdays at 1. See you then. Hey, welcome back to Security Matters Hawaii. We're with James DeMayo today and we're talking about what's your plan and what we're really trying to do is get parents to take a look at the places that you go with your family, the public places that you go with your family, and what are the kind of things that you should be aware of that you should be discussing with your family. And James DeMayo, the author's with us today, he's taken the opportunity to write a really handy guide, sort of step by step, walk you through the things that you should think about. And James, thank you so much for being here. I wanted to kind of go ahead and go through each chapter. I know you're a specialist in large events and that was chapter one. Let's kind of start there and then work our way through. I think there's eight chapters total in there. Absolutely. Certainly, you know, sports and entertainment. It's the lane I've been running in for a few years now. But you know, on the weekends, we go out to events. And what can we do again to kind of be aware of what we're doing when we go into those spaces and certainly after Las Vegas, you know, all the rules of the game for sport security have changed. You would have thought 32 floors up into a confined space, you know, which pretty much flew into a entertainment zone. We're seeing now, you know, those densely populated areas. So some things to keep in mind, Andrew and the folks as in the viewers, as they go into those spaces, you know, where you parked your vehicle, fully charged cell phone, you know, the gate that you entered, the clothing description for your eight-year-old son or daughter, just little things that you want to be aware of, a flashlight in your car. You know, if you have to leave, you know that, you know, how you're going to get out. And we talk about, you know, the people that take the tickets as you're entering the venue that they're trained on, you know, how to lead people to safety during times of crisis. So that's kind of a brief overview of the importance of, you know, everyone being on the same page, you know, for stealing venues and arenas in the United States. Yeah, and it's easy to get separated from your family. It doesn't take an active shooter like that. It could, the lights could go out like what happened to you in Durham. There could be a, even just a minor earthquake could cause panic and people separate. So that meeting place, you know, where to go after, you know, if something happens and we get separated, wait, you know, two minutes and then go to a safe, a meeting area. I think that's so critical. I mean, I'm just going to take a guess. I bet nine out of 10 families don't do that except when they go to Disneyland. You know, you may be right, but hopefully after our conversation, most people are going to remember the tips, right? So that's one of the essential tips is, well, two tips, right? Have the conversation and have a permanent meeting place. So if they get those two things out of this conversation, we're definitely headed in the right direction in terms of increasing, you know, their education and awareness. So it's a great point that you make. And that's something that I really try to get out there. I always talk about, you know, following law enforcement's direction and lead, you know, once they get on the scene, but before they get there, you've already had that conversation. You've already picked out that meeting place and you're going to head in that direction in the event you become separated at the venue. Yeah, and I was thinking you might even, whoever has a phone, should all have a picture of the family, the way that whatever they're wearing. So it's because you know how when you get, you might get confused. Oh, did she have on a blue sweater or a purple sweater? You may not be able to remember when you're under duress. So if you've got family members with phones, everybody take a picture of the Howard Buns dress so you can describe them to someone else who's looking for them, perhaps. There's always, we have all these tools, you know, and it's not just Twitter on there. And the beauty of that, and I was an investigator on law enforcement, everything's time stamps. So if you go out and take a photo of your family and law enforcement is looking for your eight-year-old, you know, missing son or daughter, well, 10 minutes ago on your phone, you took a picture of your son and now that's a time stamp. That is an investigative tool for law enforcement or a venue security to assist you in helping you find your missing child, if that's the case. Yeah, and so there's our, we have like a Loha Stadium events here for football and then we have the Hollywood Marathons, a really large event that occurs here. There are, we have Iron Man over on the big on. So there are some large events here that it's easy to get, then they're spread over long distances so it's easy to get separated. I think it's just really great advice. Let's talk about the malls because you know, that's what's inside of this for you and there's a huge mall here, Alamoana, full of a lot of tourists, probably 20 different languages being spoken there. I don't actually know, I don't do the security for that mall and I don't know how many people they get lost down there on a daily basis but I can imagine just language becomes a barrier. You know, if the families haven't talked about where to go back or where to meet. So tell us a little bit about the mall advice that you have because everybody goes to the malls with their families. Well, absolutely, we know it's a soft target. For the most part, you're probably not going through any type of, you know, screening measures and we have, you know, Thanksgiving coming up. Yeah. So we have Black Friday, we have the holiday season so we're going to be out, we're going to be shopping with our families but when we go into these mall areas, we usually have some type of contracted security. We may have law enforcement, we may have, you know, guest services but we have resources, we have facilities and housekeeping. We have people that are inside that space that we can utilize as resources and I always talk about taking a look at, you know, the apps for the malls and, you know, finding out what time they open, finding out what time they close, taking a look at your weather app as you go out to the mall if you're dealing with the potential of inclement or severe weather in your area whether that's Hawaii or obviously, I mean, New York right now but I live in Raleigh, North Carolina but taking a few minutes to, you know, find out that information before you head out to the mall if the lights go out in the mall which is what happens to us, you've already had the conversation, you picked out your especially designated meeting spot and you're going to go to that area and again, I remind everyone if there is an active shooter or workplace violence or bond scare or some type of IED or some type of unthinkable situation always follow law enforcement's lead but, you know, we talk about the stacks and, you know, I wrote the book a year ago 10 to 14 minutes, most of the bad stuff is over before the good guys get there. The beauty of this project, Andrew, is we're talking about changing that reactionary mindset to one that's more proactive in nature. So if we, and that's part of filling a gap in the force continuum that's before the point of contact, up to the point of contact and prior to law enforcement arriving on scene. Having these tools and getting out in front, again, places you in the best position possible. Yeah, and I have come across folks that even run high at fight if you watch that video when those folks are egressing out that back door, you know, there's like four or five of them and they go to get one gap from in front of the building. I kind of felt like I was taught to egress until I come across law enforcement. So I kind of thought that video didn't sell egress quite as well as it should have, you know, to continue away, you know, don't have a phone in your hands, right? Make sure your hands are empty, you know, if you're waving them around. And, you know, egress until you come across authorities, you know. Absolutely. And again, we always talk about choke points and bottlenecks. So if everyone is going out the same exit door, we have the potential of a choke point or a bottleneck and that's where a terrorist is going to look to strike is those tight areas, those tight spaces. Unfortunately, we saw that in 1000 Oaks where there wasn't too many ways out of that venue. We saw that in the polls. So we have limited egress, limited ways to get out. But if you know in advance where the exits are, give yourself a few options in the event something happens. Certainly from a terrorist standpoint, or someone who's disenfranchised, they're going to look to those exit points inside those spaces. So you want to be out in front in terms of your pre-planned response. Yeah, hopefully when they come in one, you're going out the other. Exactly. Let's look at the schools. So Hawaii has a real problem with this open campus environment. So, you know, we don't have the vertical school buildings like you build on the mainland, you know, typically. So a lot of our campuses are really wide open. And, you know, schools have obviously been a target. I mean, that's the thing that I think tugs at everyone's heartstrings for the students. You know, I've been this, my voice is always the one, you know, if we make them go there, we need to make sure that they're safe. You know, we owe them that protection. And maybe the college campuses are a little bit different because they're chosen, but they've also been targeted. What do you think we can do with students? I think education there has gotten better, you know, in those spaces. And I don't know if it's trickled down, you know, to Parkland and down to the K through 12 yet quite as much. But what's your take on what we should do there? And what should parents be looking for when they're touring a campus or their child's going to be going there? What kind of advice can you give them there? Well, you know, I would do the same thing because I'm a parent of two children and husband, you know, wife, family. I send my children out to the same world that the viewers send their children out to. So I'm just, I have a vested interest, just like each and every one does that's watching today. You know, get involved, you know, talk to your principals, talk to your director of securities, talk to your school resource officers. Let them know. And one of the first things I did was relocate it to North Carolina. I went up to the SRO and said, hi, I'm James DeMayo. I'm retired law enforcement. And here's my son, Nate. It's no different for many parents. Go up and say hi, face to a name, make that connection. Get involved in the process. School board meetings, if you bank taxes, and obviously get involved in the process. But, sir, I work with, you know, I'm losing a little bit of audio. Yes, you know, in terms of hardening targets and, you know, vestibules and, you know, obviously it's really, really important that the students have a vested interest if one of their classmates has had a bad day. It's incumbent upon them to let the SRO, the principal or, you know, a fellow student or someone, just don't presume it's somebody else's responsibility. Because again, growing up nowadays is tough. There's a lot of peer pressure. Kids don't want to come forward, but certainly after Parkway, we've seen that mindset change where the kids want to come forward and share that information, which again, you know, it's to their credit. Yeah, I think, I'm kind of ashamed it took those students to bring that voice out as loudly as they did, but I think other students paid attention to it and hopefully that gets them, you know, hungry for this information. What about, let's talk a little bit. I think movie theaters was in there. I'm not sure if you had that included in smaller venues, but obviously we had a Teraboy event at Aurora. And you know, that was, you know, perhaps preventable. I mean, you know, the guy opened the back door, you know, went in and left and propped it open, came back in the back door, that kind of stuff. I remember as a kid, I would admit, we always tried to sneak in the back door of the movie theater because it was always unlocked. But we used to always get caught and they'd run us out anyway and make us pay. So I don't know what your experience was with that. But you know, that's another place that it's dark. You're seated. You're quite a bit of a target, you know, so do you know where the exits are in the movie theaters and only the way that you came in, you know, perhaps? So maybe that's a place you need to go look around. Do you have some advice for those types of venues? Sure, it's a great question. And again, you know, Black Friday, holiday season, some of these movie theaters are physically inside, you know, shopping malls. Oh, that's right. So they're not standalone in some cases they are, but get out to the theater early. What are your tickets online early? Get out to your seat. You know, when lights are still on inside, the theater, look around. See where the exit signs are. If someone's looking a little out of the ordinary or possibly having a bad day, go tell and attend it. Go speak to the manager. Let somebody know within that space. Don't just, again, as I mentioned earlier, don't presume it's somebody else's responsibility. You know, if you see people sneaking in the side door, let somebody know about it. You know, you pay for your ticket. You know, certainly if people are trying to get in, they may be coming in for unscrupulous reasons. You know, so we want to be mindful of that. So again, you know, just take a look at the entire space. Look at it from multiple angles. Try not to have tunnel vision. You know, pay attention to the area that you're in and share that information with somebody in a position of authority in a timely manner. Yeah. Yeah, it's really good advice. So do you, let me ask you a question. Do you try to, try to park yourself, you know, nearer to an exit if you have a choice? You know, in a theater, I like to sit in the middle, you know, center of the screen. And that's going to be probably one of the hardest places to get away from. So do you have a tire? Do you pull the family? Sorry, what do you guys think? Is it safe enough we can sit in the middle? But I mean, with 28 years in the industry, I'm always looking to sit near the exit. That's how I'm trained or if I'm in a restaurant, you know, I can kind of see who's coming in the door. That's just my training. But I mean, obviously, if it's a best-selling movie and the theater's packed, you have to kind of sit where your seat is, but you've already figured out a way on how to get out. Or you've already, you know who the key people are that you can go to, you know, if you need their help. But certainly just know how to get in, how to get out. You know, fully charge your cell phone, share the information, look around. Try not to have tunnel vision, but certainly just have that mindset that if something really tragic happens, you're already prepared to react, you know, if you're faced with that kind of scenario. That is great advice. James, the work you put in this book is, I think it's going to pay huge dividends. I really appreciate you traveling the country and sharing it with everyone. I'm glad you're going to be up at ISC East this coming week. Hopefully we can get you out at ISC West in the spring. And then I saw that you were speaking at some rotary clubs. I know there's a lot of other groups that I believe can benefit from this. You can count on me to do my share out here on spreading the same word and spreading this book. Again, folks, it's about three bucks on Kindle. Get out there and buy it. James, last comment and then we're going to close. Okay. Take care. Aloha. Hey, you guys, thanks. This has been Security Matters Hawaii on the Think Tech Hawaii Studio. And James DeMails been with us talking about what's your plan because security matters. Thank you. Good job, James. That's going to play really well, man. Yeah, he thought he was out. Yeah, I said he'll be in a room tomorrow, but he's probably probably five or six at least.