 Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening. Thank you for tuning in and welcome to our latest episode of Mentor Talks. Mentor Talks is a program sponsored by the U.S. Department of State and the Office of Alumni Affairs. Through this online series, we provide professional development for exchange program alumni and others through live engagement with a variety of leaders and mentors. Our guest today is Sarah Endline, founder and former CEO of Sweet Riot, a natural chocolate company. Sarah is an entrepreneur in residence at the Harvard Innovation Lab and Harvard Business School. She is an early innovator in socially responsible, mission-based businesses and in capturing the hearts and minds of millennial consumers. Sarah's entrepreneurial work has been covered by the Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, The Today Show, Forbes, and Fortune. Sarah is also an alumna of the Congress Bundestag Youth Exchange Program, or CBYX. Sarah is going to share some of her story with us and talk about the myth of branding. But before we hear from her, we want to hear from you, our online viewers. What challenges are you facing with your career? How are you building on your exchange experience? What would you like to ask Sarah about marketing and branding, or about Harvard? Be sure to tell us a little bit about where you're from and yourself too. Now, let's get our conversation started. Sarah, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to join us today. Great to be here. Sarah, before we get to our questions from our online audience, can you tell us about your early days with Sweet Riot and how you built your brand? Yeah, I love that you called this the myth of branding because I never used that word early on. It was really about a mission. It was about what kind of organization could I create that would help change the world. And one of the early stories was sitting and kind of coming up with a mission and values and what we really wanted to impact in the world. So the day I finally walked into Whole Foods, I knew no one. I went into the largest store in New York and I thought to myself, you know, it's our second month of business. It's time for us to learn how we would get into Whole Foods, this amazing organic national chain. And I walked down the aisles and I saw someone stocking the shelves. And I thought I was near the chocolate. So I started talking to this person and I said, excuse me, isn't chocolate usually here? He got up from being down stocking and he walked me to the chocolate area. And all good entrepreneurs know we need to be prepared at any moment. So Sweet Riot was in my hand and I passionately shared the mission and the values and the impact we wanted to make, the movement we were building and pulled out the product. And he looked at me and he said, I must admit I run the grocery department here at Whole Foods. And I had no idea who I had been talking to. I thought I was talking to someone stocking the shelves. And he said, but I'm so impressed by what you're doing and I want to set up a meeting so we can sit and review it seriously for the store. So I think the lesson from that is he was really reacting to the mission and the movement. I wasn't talking about a brand. I was talking about something that we as a team really believed in. And the product kind of came second. I was talking about the mission first. So that led to a meeting and that led to really a very important long-term customer for us. Yes, you were partnered with them for ten years, right? Yes, that's great. So thank you, Sarah. And I also have to ask you, how did your experience as an international exchange alumna of the CBYX program shape your career and your life? Well, it certainly changed my life first of all. You know, Brock, for a year when you're 20 years old, take yourself out of the small town and kind of insert yourself in Europe is just a life altering experience. And I think it just opened my eyes to the world out there and the fact that, you know, there was kind of an ecosystem that we all belong to, that all of our cultures were different. German and American culture is not the same. And learning how to kind of adapt and operate and be open is really so important when you're abroad. And I think, you know, I read a book maybe after I came home, but it's really stayed with me, which is Stephen Covey's Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. But the one I love the most is to seek first to understand. And I think that's just this idea of stepping back, listening, trying to understand where the other person is coming from before you jump to judgment or conclusions, seek first to understand. And this is something I learned by being on a cultural exchange and something I use in business every day. Cool. Okay. Thank you so much for Sarah. We've limited times. Let's get to some questions from our viewers. One of our viewers asks, what are some ways to, what are some easy ways to implement practices to encourage employees to invest and believe more in the brand of the company? Yeah. So personally, we never used the word brand at the company. So I, my first piece of advice would be to eliminate the word brands and really start to think about a movement, a mission, and what you're trying to impact in the world. And I think there's a lot of research out there. We were a very early B corporation. I think that is a growing movement of companies that stand for something. And I think there is a lot of evidence showing that employees, young and old, want to join, not a brand, they want to join a movement. They want to join making an impact. And so the more you can kind of think about your language, your mission, your values and asking people to join something that is like larger than themselves that is really making an impact in the marketplace. The more I think you'll see positive impact on recruitment and retention. That's a good advice. Now we have a question from Priscilla on Facebook. She asks, what key points does one have to take into account when repositioning a brand? So, you know, the market at the end of the day makes fakes decisions around you. So I think being very aware of what's happening in the market is really, really important. When we were creating Sweet Riot, it was about something called Blue Ocean, which is trying to really find a gap in the marketplace to innovate and to disrupt and to kind of make your own path. So I really encourage people to always think through and search for that Blue Ocean, where the gaps in the marketplace. And then we spent a lot of time with our consumers. There's something I learned at Yahoo called ethnography, where you literally might even just be sitting at a consumer's home looking at how they live their lives with or without your product. And I think trying to understand that really kind of gives you the cues of what might be the right product or service to create. Because I always like to say, you know, if you're building a consumer product, for instance, where does your consumer live? Where do they play? What do they read? Really get into their mindset because that's the only way to create the right products for them. Okay, we have another viewer who asks, what are some of the best ways to make your brand stand out when there's so much information out there? Yeah, this goes back to a few things I've talked about before, which is don't think about it as a brand. Think about it as a movement and think about it as a product there to serve your marketplace. And step back at that kind of big picture level to think about how are you unique and different in your marketplace? Are you in red ocean, which means lots of competition and everyone looks the same? Or are you approaching blue ocean where you might be able to create your own category or your own kind of place in the city? So I would be looking at kind of these macro strategic questions before you just keep doing the regular marketing activity. I like to call it the soul. Look at the soul first, which means do you have the right products and services? Do you have the right culture and people to then go out into that marketplace? Right, so it sounds like it's more of you're thinking about your audience, but you're also trying to meet them where they are, as well as trying to find that blue ocean, which I love that concept by the way. So it's like you're making your own ocean in a way in the marketplace. And how did you come up with that whole blue ocean concept? It is, it's a great book. It's a strategic book. But I think that the notion is really another great book people could read is Purple Cow by Seth Godin, which is about really being unique. That's why I say focus on the soul first, because if you're building the wrong products and services and you have the wrong team, it's very hard to just go to marketing out in the world. You really have to look at what you're creating first, building this very strong soul. And your employees, we call them rioters as we write, they're your very best advocates of your product and what you do. They represent the soul of the company. And so if you don't have product and people write, it's very, very hard to just go do the marketing tactics in the marketplace. So that's why I really challenge people to kind of look first internally. I believe very, very strong internal cultures, souls as I like to call them are what then can successfully radiate out into the marketplace. So the definition of entrepreneurship at Harvard Business School is, I'll give you the short infused version, but it's about marshaling resources towards your cause, because if you can imagine, you're starting often with nothing and you have to build everything from the ground up. So I think you need to be incredibly resourceful and clear on what you're trying to build. And I always say to early entrepreneurs, do you want to work on this particular idea 24 hours a day, seven days a week? And it's not that you're going to be working 24 hours a day, seven days a week, but the level of commitment needs to really be there. And so there are ideas that will come and go that you're like, I like that idea, but I'm not sure I would let those ideas go. I would wait for that one where you are just feeling so fiery that you're going to do put in all of that hard work to build something from the bottoms up. Cool. Okay. So we another viewer question. Do you think having marketing or branding partnerships are a good idea? How do you approach potential partners? I believe in partnership in general in business. So absolutely partnerships are important. And I just mentioned, if you're building a company from scratch, you know, it's hard to be alone in that. So you definitely want to find people along the way. You know, for us, Whole Foods was a very, very critical partner. Some people may consider them a retailer. I consider them a curator. They decide who gets the real estate on their very special shelves. And so we treated them as a partner. We wanted to be a part of their movement of changing that natural organic food world. So yes, partnerships very important. And I think it's a matter of what's right for your company, your movement, your suite of products and services. And it's not the right answer for everyone. It really depends on specifically what it is you're creating. Okay. We have another question from Facebook from Natalia. Is it more difficult to attract or retain customers? It's all difficult. I know I'm speaking as an entrepreneur, but you know, I think a lot of people would argue it's easier to retain or it's easier to bring back customers you've had in the past. So I'm sure there's, you know, you can read science around that. Attracting these very first customers is certainly difficult. They're placing a bet on you. I can remember walking into Zabars, you know, one of the top gourmet stores in New York City, and this was, you know, really kind of our one to first customer. And I walked into the store and again, I didn't know anyone. So I just said, who manages chocolate? And they said, hey, go talk to this guy over there. Well, it turns out that guy over there was the general manager of the store. And I was, again, so passionate about, you know, this movement we were creating and this, this unique set of products that he placed a bet on it. And he said, OK, fine, I'm going to give you a try. And we built a long, amazing relationship where Scott was just such a critical part of, you know, sweet riot and what we stood for. But he had to place a bet at the beginning and trust us. So that is a very challenging part of the process, customer acquisition. But I think all of it is challenging. And that's the beauty of entrepreneurship. That's true. So and what, what made you step into entrepreneurship from, you know, being at Yahoo and Microsoft? I think I've been entrepreneurial my whole life. My first, actually, I started out selling candy in school. Then I led a major choice for TOTS campaign and in high school, you know, building movements, building campaigns, stepping up, being a leader, founding things is just something I've done my whole life. And even when I was at Microsoft, I was at a very entrepreneurial part of Microsoft at MSN.com. When I was at Yahoo, I was working for founders of a company that had been bought by Yahoo. So it was a 30-person tiny team. I have a pattern of working with founders or being the founder, being a co-founder. And I think I just like to build, create, you know, movements and companies. And, you know, I have that, I've had that pattern for a long time. I don't, I don't encourage everyone to do it. I don't, I don't think you are required to be an entrepreneur. But I think it's just something that I kind of grew up with. Cool. So we have another question for you. When you're planning a marketing campaign, how do you begin? Are there first steps to get organized? So I've mentioned marketplace because I really think this is just such a critical piece of the puzzle. So if you're starting to build a campaign first, again, I would step back. Do you have the right unique product or service? What's happening in your marketplace? And understanding your marketplace. So when I, when I said I was doing ethnography at Yahoo and there's a way of kind of doing market research, you can bootstrap this. I would, I would host focus groups in my New York apartment. I would have one-on-one coffees with people to talk to them about candy and chocolate and problems and solutions. And I literally would just go out and do as much primary research as I could to get into the mindset of the target consumer. So when building a campaign for me, it goes back to who is this consumer? Where do they live? Where do they work? Where do they play? What do they care about? I'm really trying to hone in on that. Okay, that's solid advice. And we have another question. How have best practices for branding changed over time? How can one prepare for these kinds of changes? Great question. I really believe the internet has created a radical level of transparency that never existed before. So I think companies could, let's say, get away with more. It wasn't going to hit the Twitter headline in one second. Maybe it would hit the newspapers, right? So I just think that consumers growing up today have unparalleled access to information. They can in one click find out everything about you. They might even be able to find out about your employees, your CEO, your salaries. There's just so much information out there. I think that leads to things like the B Corp movement and consumers demanding a different level of integrity. And I don't see that changing. And I don't think that's going to change because of the internet driving transparency. That's cool. Okay. So when evaluating your marketing campaign's performance, what are the most important factors to focus on? Well, I'm a marketer who loves sales. And so anyone who says sales is like a dirty word, it's not. It's really beautiful. Revenue is the lifeblood of businesses. So I like to evaluate based on what is the sales impact. Certainly you want a positive feeling from your consumers on if you create a commercial, you want it to be the one that everyone's sending around saying it's so wonderful. So yes, you want that kind of satisfaction level to be high. But you want to impact sales. And as an entrepreneur, this is your number one metric is just driving the sales of your product or service, embracing sales, being out as a chief salesperson. Sales is so fundamental. And it's not just in selling the product or service. It might be fundraising for the company. It might be finding the next partner. And it's so something that I love to talk about and advocate. It sounds like you have to not only market yourself, but your product too. Yes. So we have another question from Facebook from Tatiana. She works with teachers and wants to know what are ways to open their minds to new opportunities and prospects with different organizations, not only ministry and school authorities. Open the minds of teachers. I think maybe she's talking about partnerships, maybe. Yeah. And I think this goes back to what is the mission of a teacher and bring them back to why are they there? The values and the mission. And so that's what a great partnership stems from anyway. It's not stemming from a brand. It's not stemming from the idea of marketing. It's stemming from, I believe in this. And look, maybe we can help foster that together. So I think that is the root of great customer relationships. It's the root as well of great partnerships. Okay. And what are some easily accessible resources that you could recommend for promoting a small business? You know, I think it's important to start local first. I remember what I was starting and people be like, when are you going to be a national? And it's like, wait, we've got one city to start with. So I think, you know, choosing a place to start is really important. And it doesn't always mean you need to start with the whole country. Certainly there's a strategy today with the internet to do that. But let's just say you're opening one location. And say in New York that if you want to have a successful restaurant, you must get the neighbors. If you don't get the neighbors and you're trying to rely on kind of tourist traffic and people that read your advertisement, you will never survive as a restaurant. So let's just take that example as a small business, start local, start with your neighbors, test the concepts, get feedback, be close to those customers, close to the marketplace, perfect what some people would call your MVP and keep growing from there. Okay. So that your MVP, your most valuable player, which is your local market. That's an internet term, your minimum viable product. Ah, okay. Perfect, perfect using your locals and your neighbors before you go big. Okay. And just expanding on that. So once you are focused on your local audience, then what should a business owner keep in mind when you're expanding to a wider audience? You know, it's so, it's so very much depends on, you know, what is the product or service that you're creating. I think being really strategic about your rollout is important. So if we just take a sweet ride as an example, we decided very deliberately, let's find these kind of New York, natural, organic, small, especially stores first. We weren't even talking about Whole Foods. I mean, the fact that we ended up there in our second month of business was not by design. I was going to walk in and it was going to be a six to 12 month process. It happened to be a very quick process. Our strategy was start local, great, especially natural. And then next we will build from there. So I think having that kind of a, I mentioned this before. Let's make sure we have the right soul in place, right products, right services, great team. There's a soul in place. I'm now ready to radiate to the marketplace. What is that kind of step by step rollout and plan it. And, you know, you can't always follow it perfectly, but to plan it and have some strategy behind it will serve you. Okay. And how do you find likely partners to work with? Did you go to Whole Foods looking for partners? How can you use that approach on purpose? You know, I think we just, we studied the market, right? So if we wanted to be with the top natural organic specialty players first in New York, you know, we studied who those players were, who the stores were, where they were in the city specifically. How could we reach them? How could we go visit them? And then, you know, there's an old saying fish where the fish are, you know, we would show up, right? We would ask to talk to people. We would ask for appointments. We were present. And that's why sales is so, so important is going out into the marketplace, be brave and courageous and show up. It's a big part of the entrepreneurial battle. And that's what we did. Cool. And you're from New York, right? I mean, sorry, you grew up on a farm, but you are in New York and that's become like your base. It is a base. My husband is French. We have a cultural exchange every day. So we have a place in France. We have a place in Brooklyn and we celebrate French and American culture here at home. Great. Okay. So we're going to go back to another brand question. What's a normal timeframe for developing your brand and connecting with your audience? This is a complicated question. You know, I don't know that there is a normal timeframe, but certainly I think most entrepreneurs I know that are starting a new company and building kind of a movement from scratch are spending a minimum of six months and it's contacting around this. And some people may have a job while they do this, right? So you're kind of like balancing everything together. And you're trying to first of all understand what it is that you're passionate about that you want to work on 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And where's that gap in the market? You know, where can you create an innovation? And what are your core values around that? That reflection takes time. It might take lots of conversation with others. It might take you kind of studying some market research, looking at reports of what's happening in the world, doing some business research. I remember going to the wonderful New York City business public library, which is just incredible. And there are resources out there for entrepreneurs. So you're going to want to be thoughtful because you're committing to this and it takes time. So do some people do it in, you know, three weeks? Maybe. It's really, I don't think there's one right answer, but I would just say you want to be thoughtful. Okay, good. So in speaking of resources, we do have resources on alumni.state.gov for entrepreneurs. Many. Exactly. There's also an academy of women entrepreneurs that the State Department has created. And so, yes, your educational institution might have resources. Your small business center of city government may have resources for you. There are places out there to help you think about entrepreneurship. Exactly. Thanks. So, and you've talked a lot about like people and how do you value people-to-people interactions compared to other forms of communication? You know, I think the best companies are all about people. I mean, we can kind of change products and services all day. But it really fundamentally comes down to having an incredible, talented team in a very strong culture. And if you ever have a chance to read the book built to last by Jim Collins, he studies legendary companies that have radically changed their products and services over time. But what they have in place is a very strong culture with a very strong set of people involved. And so I just think that's really, I like to say sometimes in his speech, the point is the people. It's a term I used when I was an undergrad at the University of Michigan. It all comes down to your team and how you play and how you enter the market together. So I'm very focused on people-to-people relationships. Cool. I can tell that. So we have one final question from Facebook from Antonio. He asks, more and more companies have no business boundaries. How does branding look in this new age? Interesting. And I love that everyone's still asking about branding because I'm trying not to say the word. It's about movements and, you know, movements sometimes have boundaries and sometimes they don't. And sometimes a movement may start with a particular niche focus and it may just grow and grow and grow and just kind of evolve into something way beyond where it started. And as long as you have your mission in place and your core values in place, you can let a movement evolve. And I think we'll continue to see that in the marketplace. But it is about first starting with the soul of your company, mission, values, vision, why are we here, and let that unfold. Cool. So would you say that's your number one tip for someone trying to pitch a new product or company, like focus on the soul? Yes, because at the early stages that's really all you have. And so the idea of brand for me, you know, it started with kind of branding cattle back in the day. I just don't think in today's internet transparent, you know, be core mission based kind of world that that's what the future is. I think the future is movements and movements start first with people and a set of ideals. Okay. Well, thank you very much, Sarah, for being with us today. And a big thank you to you or online viewers for participating. Be sure to keep your calendar open for our next mentor talks with Alice, a two time IVLP alumna and changemaker from Bangkok, who is also the face of our enabling entrepreneurs page on alumni.state.gov. Alice will join us in February. Want to learn more about more opportunities for exchange alumni like AEIF, our biggest funding opportunity? Visit our website and follow us on social media and share your stories with us using the hashtag exchange alumni. Thanks for watching and see you all in February for our next mentor talks.