 And get started, so I will call this meeting of 413. And I have a script that I'm going to read for the first part of this. I'm going to read the provisions of the governor's coded related executive orders which suspend certain requirements of the Brown act, the economic development subcommittee which I just called to order is conducting today's meeting in a virtual setting. Members of the public may view and listen to the meeting as noted on the city's website as well as on today's agenda. So the public wishing to speak during the agenda items or public comment, we'll be able to do so by using the raise hand feature or pressing star nine on their phone. When called upon they will then be given the ability to address the committee. And then I'm recording secretary Eileen would you please take the role. Here. Council Member Fleming. Here. Over. Present. There he is. Good morning, everybody. Good morning, Eddie. So before I take public comment, I want to remind the community and our, and our, the members of our meeting today that we have dedicated ourselves to a less formal format. The titles of council member are not necessary unless you feel more comfortable using them. But we will be on a first name basis, at least those on the committee, and the public is, is, is encouraged and invited to maintain that that same level of, of, or that lack of formality that we so often have to deal with with city meetings, we find that it works well to have that, that formality removed so that we can have a more open discussion. So before we get started with our agenda today, I will ask for public comments on items not on the agenda. If you wish to make a comment via zoom, please use the raised hand feature. If you are calling in via telephone, please press star nine to raise your hand. Each speaker has three minutes, a countdown timer will appear for your convenience. And please make sure to unmute yourself when you are invited to do so. Your microphone will be muted at the end of three minutes and council members also make sure that your phone or that you are muted, unless you are ready to speak. And Eileen, do we have any comments on items not on the agenda this morning. Thank you, Sarah. I have unmuted your line, please confirm that you are able to see the timer and introduce yourself if you so choose. Yes, I do. My comments are though on the agenda on the right to call back. So I might have did this a little wrong. Yeah, we that is on the agenda so if you can hold off that would be great until we get to that item. Thank you, Eileen any other comments on items not on the agenda. There are no additional raised hands at this time. Okay, thank you very much so we will we will move on to our agenda 3.1 is the economic resiliency council priority update. Right, so you're on. Hey there. Okay, so I wanted to put this on just to state what, and there are a lot of things that we're doing that we don't generally talk about here, or that don't maybe show up on our economic development stuff committee meetings but we're busy. So we can go into a little bit of detail on any of these that you'd like to but I just wanted to put it into the public record. And it basically breaks down into three, three kind of segments activities that that are ongoing activities that have a date certain with either this subcommittee and or council, and then activities that are that are coming up in the future that we've noted that we need to progress on but we don't have a specific date for. And so on the ongoing thing. And this was this is related to the economic resiliency including childcare council goal. And in terms of economic resiliency just baked into our program. You know we're obviously continuing with small business support assistance and assistance coordination we did highlight Latinx business recovery communication and opportunities because again we found that just an ongoing discrepancy and access to resources is was sort of exacerbated during the COVID pandemic and so we highlighted and increased our efforts with Latinx business recovery and then also micro entrepreneurial opportunities. This can come in many forms. What we're seeing right now is that a lot of people are starting small businesses either in their home or meant mobile bending opportunities. That type of thing so we've increased our efforts in that area and then also obviously ongoing is the pursuit of revenue and partnership opportunities. So we saw that in the form of. For example, open and out was a good example of partnering with other organizations to extend what funds we have but also to make the programs a little bit more robust or a lot more robust in that case. The other thing that's ongoing that will eventually come in different ways through this committee are the downtown infill developments work that we're doing so, you know we're continuing our work with, you know, Simon properties at the mall with cornerstone properties with whom we have an exclusive negotiation agreement with with other interested parties in the downtown either that they have property or they're seeking information, or they're seeking to purchase property. So that's just going to be an ongoing thing will eventually bring that back to the economic development subcommittee on its way for any action to counsel. But I wanted to sort of point out the date certain things so that folks listening or on today, know that we have some very specific actions coming up. The first one is on the 27th, which is the study session for the government center. So this will be a study sessions, probably I'm going to guess take about two hours, sorry, Council members. Interesting. And it's the first time we're actually going to be able to review the, the report, the feasibility analysis that JLL did really specific to our city hall campus and our, the city's administrative needs to be able to consolidate them and then while we're also freeing up land for new development in the downtown geared toward housing, but also going to be there is Caroline Judy from the county because we need to ask some very specific questions about the, the Council's interest in accommodating the potential for the county administrative center to move downtown as well. So that's on the 27th. On the May 25, we're anticipating having its, well, I'm calling it shared right of way, but it's really specifically the parklets were anticipating that the COVID restrictions will ease up and we'll get into the yellow tier mid June. And this is an effort for us to be able to accommodate the COVID temporary parklets that we've, we've set out to be able to have a permanent program that will carry forward. And so it's such a nuanced rabbit hole of a policy that we felt that we needed to do a study session before we actually commit to presenting a an actual ordinance. And that's because, you know, we think most frequently about downtown and what the infrastructure looks like here, but this policy needs to be a citywide policy. We need to be able to roll out again, equitably as best we can throughout the city. Also in May, just say, you know, we anticipate the start of our economic development division strategic strategic plan we haven't done this for a long time. There are so many organizational changes, as well as the need for us to, you know, sort of reconnect and confirm or reorient our priorities. So that'll start in May. And then this last section we sort of go into more date uncertain or future items. We are in the process of talking about enhanced infrastructure finance districts. We're looking at two areas which have to be also our opportunity zone areas and that's in the downtown in Roseland. And so we've been meeting with the Board of Supervisors to understand what their concerns might be and at what level they might be interested in participating. Another thing that we have coming up is the, the RFP, the request for proposals or request for qualifications for select downtown properties really specifically we're looking at lots 10 and 11 which are the fifth street lots behind the Russian River Brewery and the one down on between B and Mendocino. It's on Fifth Street. So there are two small lots as well as the garage on Third Street, that garage, and those two lots needs a lot of work. They have millions of dollars worth of retrofit issues. And so we have an opportunity if we release them for public development, while also recognizing that we need to retain our public parking. It gives us an opportunity to address two needs with one stone. And then I'm hoping to come and start working with this group on the childcare support pilot program really specifically we need to get to start on the next phase which is the facility fund. I have this idea that I've been sort of talking to people and seems to have interest in doing something like we did with red for housing, but an organization that may be a JPA that will help sort of like a housing trust for childcare facilities, because what we're finding that we noticed that that obviously you guys have supported the loss of childcare trying to stabilize childcare through the pandemic, but we're finding that even finding facilities, if we have providers is becoming more and more difficult that are qualifying facilities. And then the last thing I want to just point out on this list is the Roseland Community Benefit District. So we have two community benefit districts. They're property based assessments that we have in Railroad Square and Courthouse Square. We're looking at at introducing this concept to Roseland. And so we're laying the groundwork now. I hope it's not going to take a full year, but in anticipation that with the work that we're doing with the businesses and then eventually those businesses and coordination with the city will do with the property owners. We hope to be able to introduce a new community benefit district for that area later this year or sometime next year. And that's that's the update on these guys have any questions on any of the items. Thank you, Raiisa. And I can't see. There we go. So just raise your hands raise your actual hand. If you have the council if you have any questions on this update, Victoria. I'm just curious, what, first of all, thank you so much for sharing with us the tremendous amount of work that you do. I guess my rhetorical questions I don't know how you how do you do it all. But the actual question I have is, what if any role do you see for this committee around the facilities trust because as is probably no secret to you or anybody on this zoom that I have a particular interest in wanting to know if there's any way to participate. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I will propose it for next. The next subcommittee agenda in May, because I think we need to start picking apart I mean honestly how do we do it I cannot do this without you guys for one thing. I'm going to need help just with the connections. And we have $1.4 million left from the seed money that you that you gave us for the program in general. That's not enough to create something but it's enough to leverage. So how do we leverage that. And who do we work with, and what, what, you know, can we do a JPA, who wears the best place to put it. I think we're going to have to, like that's the hard work to do with you guys. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, my concern coming out of that is just how, how are we going to potentially get some more, you know, money for either American Recovery Act, other jurisdictions and potentially, you know, non governmental sources so really excited to work on that. Thanks. Yeah, and start thinking now, Victoria, honestly, because I think, I think we know the obvious players. So first five. Oh my gosh, I'm going to use the Chamber of Commerce. So we're working on that now, but it's, it's how do we access and engage and again do for housing. I don't care what we did for housing. How do we get additional money from say Kaiser, maybe it's Kaiser Family Foundation, maybe it's even Robert Wood Johnson Foundation healthy communities kinds of things. But the, the other thing is so it's that phasing and then where's the best place to have a program like this run, if we can get county like multi jurisdictional funding. While acknowledging like return to source type of questions. I think that that that sort of like picking apart what we need, and then creating that strategy to get there is what I'm anticipating for next for May. Okay, thanks. Any any questions about the update. Yeah, thank you. It was just answered. And for me the biggest concern is how to fund all the programs that we want to invest into. So, so thank you for that. Yeah, it's a good question and we have, you know, the developer that is looking to include childcare in his development and having those conversations with developers downtown is, you know, one of those is the type of thing that we're really looking at and encouraging those that are risking their, their capital to come downtown are also at least in part highly engaged in some of these kind of almost unexpected awareness is of how important childcare is to, to the economic health, and just the health in general of our community so it's it's becoming and I think that probably education, there's going to be a key element of educate educating the community on the on the importance so that there's a higher level of awareness and support. I certainly needed the education myself so I'm hoping that that those are part of the conversations when we go down the, the down the road of talking to developers and what their intentions are for developing downtown. You know that I will put it to Eddie we're going to need your help I think in particular on the community benefit district this is an assessment tool that will help create an organization and then provide funds for that organization to do really, you know, community benefiting work in that area. And so I think Raphael, he led the charge for Robert Square the last one, and obviously is the boots on the ground for for Roseland. And so we'll continue to talk with you about that as well. And that will generally come through this for this committee before council. I appreciate that very much and any opportunity that moving out of the stages of COVID. I'm definitely looking forward to being able to interact with my community at a whole another level almost feels like a new level, and that we're getting to know our community now that that the sun is rising once again right so I appreciate the invitation. Yeah, okay. And Rosalind is the natural next step in those organizations and I think it's, I think they are, we know, awaiting it waiting, awaiting the opportunity and it is, it is, there's a lot of work that goes into creating these districts but it'll be well worth it and Rosalind and there'll be a lot of education as well, you know, that's part of part of the deal. And you pointed to the fact that we're becoming becoming educated. And as as business people we actually have this conversation. I believe it was the meeting before the last where we're as business people we definitely have to recognize the importance of childcare and how that influences our success as business people. And I believe Rosalind being very strong in the labor force, as well as the blossom economic district, it definitely adds power to that statement. Matt, John, I just want to add one more thing to what Eddie is saying about Rosalind's role, especially with childcare which is that, you know, when when we do our census tracks and all that stuff which happened of course before the fires but one of the things that that that we divide things up based on partially based on voters, but children aren't voters obviously and and I have a strong suspicion just from when I walk around Rosalind that there are more children in Rosalind than than any other district. And I think that that's going to be a really important focus to make sure that our facilities are equitably located, and that our business owners which are more commonly women of color in the in the childcare industry are properly supported and so we'll need your support council member Albers, Eddie, sorry in doing that so that we get this right. Yeah, that's right. No, that's okay. Go ahead, Eddie. Well, I was going to say absolutely if you look at our schools if you look at historically, even historically when you look at neighborhoods, the blue collar worker, the labor force, that is where the families are beginning. So it absolutely, I couldn't see it any other way. Too bad that we're looking at the numbers before the fire now we're seeing the reality after the fire, but I completely agree with that statement that when you look at district one, it is a lot of these startup families that we're seeing some absolute problems. And then you know the bulk of childcare is actually of the type of slots there and home based childcare. And so we were able to at least help accommodate some of that through training, the trainings that for sees does and then the grants that district five does, but this facilities fund. Oh my gosh, it's like if we can take down additional barriers to entry to that next step or for for childcare. And again it goes predominantly to underrepresented communities, they who step into the space, and they can create their business from that. So just because it wasn't immediately clear with me would you take 30 seconds and say what the facilities fund means. Yes, it's not obvious from the title. It isn't like a space but like it's not, it's not exactly as building spaces. Right, no, it's, it's. Okay, so I'm just trying to think because I wrote out the whole blurb on it. But I'm like, oh my gosh what's the short version of it. I'm okay so the basically the goal of the facility fund is to leverage the 1.4 million seed funding that council gave us through a broad base of local state federal funds and policies to create a stable program involving, you know, mutual assistance, and it's working towards not only stabilizing the, the industry, but it's specifically through this fund stabilizing them by giving them access that is affordable in the long run to the new facilities so it could be either upgrading existing facilities so if you think about it like, like affordable housing, we look to retain what affordable housing we have so upgrading existing. And then we look to build new. And so we're looking to replicate that model. So building new means that from a policy standpoint, say in downtown infill development. It's affordable and it's a community benefiting use, but it's really expensive to build because it's very specific. How do we decrease the cost of that in the same way that we do for affordable housing, so that a provider can afford it. And so that the, the reduced cost of the facility me is passed on to two families, or for the service itself so that it can be a sustainable service on both sides. Does that make sense. Yeah, honestly, like affordable housing. That's a really great way to look at it, like affordable housing. But you know when we talk about like a facilities trust going forward, which is something that is a whole nother nuance like it just, I'm just sort of preparing, like, you know, asking these questions to Paris because like john said there's such a steep education curve and I'm still on it, and I've been talking about it for five years and so it's just something that you know, thank you for indulging me guys because I think we just need to kind of continue to talk about it because it's not as straightforward as it seems but the housing is one good way to do it. The other one way to look at it. The other one way to look at it is, which is not the facilities fun that we're talking about today is to look at like agricultural easements and open space easements, which is a whole, we can say for another day. So that's, that's the thing is that there's there's really great existing models. And I think the reason why I go with trust or we can go with easement whatever it is, is because like what the housing is we, we have when we understand in concept what it does in terms of the funds and the release of the funds and the know for so whatever. But the other thing that's sort of interesting to me about it is that is the voucher side of our housing program so we also have that but how do you increase that so I think it really goes to all of it it's to be both for the provider and for the user. But the easement thing is super interesting as well I gotta find another place for the sun, there we go. I'm going to raise it and I could geek out on this for a few hours so. Well, I do want to ask one quick questions you mentioned models is, are the models that you're referring to are they specific to childcare or are these mainly affordable housing models. They're mostly affordable housing models or like again open space models that the one that Victoria just mentioned, and there is, I think in Santa Clara County I can't remember Santa Clara. They have something similar but I, you know, I think from the council goal setting, there was a desire to get eventually to universal healthcare, I mean universal childcare. You know, it's these steps that can enable us and so I feel like even if Santa Clara is doing it or even if, you know, ag and open space is doing it or housing is doing it. So we take the best of all of those and make something that has not been seen before, and that to be honest with you is my ultimate goal. Yeah, because it you know if if we use affordable housing as one of the, as we are just now after all this time, after decades of work, really doing some positive steps in the, in the, in the, in the arena of affordable housing. And it's just that it will not take us that long to get the ball rolling on on childcare and the kind of program you're talking about because we can't wait decades for that to happen. So we need that we need to spearhead, or we need to put as much attention on that on that particular specific arena as we have on affordable housing in general and then hopefully the stars will align, because we, we really do need to prioritize that. You know, again, given, you know how stretchy and I'm not just talking about you can only talk about the Chamber I'm talking about first five four C's you guys. It really is going to be all hands on deck I mean is a priority and it's got to be this consistent march towards that goal. But I'm going to hang my hat on you. John. Okay. Thanks. So, at this point we'll move to public comment I lean is anyone wishing to comment on this particular update. Yes, we do have another suite. Hold on just one moment. Let me just pull up. Ananda, your line is unmuted if you would please confirm that you're able to see the timer and introduce yourself if you so choose. And thank you. Hi this is Ananda suite with the Santa Rosa Metro Chamber I just wanted to take a moment to thank you on this item you for your leadership, you and recognizing childcare is a real critical economic development opportunity for the city of Santa Rosa. We've, I think you all received a message that you know the state's working on their master plan for early education and care and is looking at examples of what does work in childcare and innovative solutions. And there are consultants, multiple companies heard from multiple sources that they should talk to us at the chamber and I would say that is not just because of our work at the chambers because our partnership with the city of Santa Rosa and our local resource and referral proceeds and first five and the childcare planning council through the county. And so really it's, it's so largely because of your leadership, you know this council raised at Rosa, your direct partnership. So I just I wanted to take the moment to thank you and I think it's clear recognition that once again much like housing I think Santa Rosa was really acknowledged as a leader in the state. We're hearing that more and more for the childcare. And I'm just so grateful to each of you for the leadership. So thank you. And thank you as well to the to the entire chamber for their support and it's interesting to see where the support for this endeavor is coming from and it's great that the that the chamber is there working with us for success so thank you very much. Yeah, I just have to do a shout out to another because I don't think I would know as much about this hatching not a couple years ago. And you know, invited me to participate as a partner in in a, in a chamber led sort of effort on specifically on this item so Ananda is definitely a leader in this in this. Yes, thank you. And this thing we can all learn so you're, we're all in this learning phase. I lean any other comments on this item. No, we have no further raise hands nor do we have any comments or messages for this item as well. Okay, thank you very much. In that case we'll move to 3.2 which is the hospitality right to recall and right to retention discussion. I have a conversation about the, the, the draft ordinance that we received a copy of that Petaluma create or that was, I'm not sure who created was did labor come up with with the language in that in that draft. Yeah, yeah, both of these they were proposed by Labor to the city of Petaluma. Yeah, so I think that that that's what that is. I mean we don't, I think these are just attachments but we don't necessarily have to pull them up right now it might be easier for us to see each other first. And then if we need to pull them up to show the example but hopefully everybody has them in front of them they're attached to okay. Well, well, maybe to kick it off. Could you let us know where because Petaluma that it was given as a document, where does Petaluma stand on this draft ordinance. Yeah, so I talked to or I emailed with Petaluma last night, and I confirmed with the staff there that they have not presented this to Council at all either the ordinance is the right to recall or the right to retention. And I was told it's a city attorney bandwidth issue issue that the city attorney wanted to revisit the language before before presented to Council for consideration. And so just leading into that I mean it was submitted to them they haven't done anything with it you know it's interesting about it in if I start with the recall first. You know the preamble is all it's based on or the premises based on coven. So, one of the questions is, you know with the with us expecting to be in yellow tier by June 15. How long is this is the expectation for this ordinance for either of the ordinances. And then the other question is that we're hearing across the board that hiring is an issue and that they can't find enough people. So, even if we have an issue right now and covered for people being laid off. There's been, you know with unemployment historically low prior to coven it was at 2.5 and are hovering below three. And now in coven right now that January unemployment figures were 6.5. So for anything an unemployment rate anywhere between four to 6% is considered healthy. So the lower rates are, you know, seen as potentially inflationary because it puts an upward pressure on on salaries and higher rates of course you know are problematic because they threaten consumers spending. So even in coven at this point where we're where we're going. We're sort of within the range of healthy unemployment. And that really speaks to the fact that before coven. There were. I was a fairly frequent topic conversation every time we got a new hotel, where are we going to get the, the employees. So, so I just want to lay that groundwork on this I understand the intention of this, but I'm not sure with tourism, the demand for employment within the hospitality sector. I'm not 100% positive this is a problem. The answer to a problem that we have. So, Jeff is also on here and I think that kind of go through some of the issues if you want but I mean I'm assuming we can maybe either jump in, or do you need any kind of summary. I will ask the members that that very question, and I did, I'll just mention that I was a little surprised that, although the, the language in the first in the description and the intention was very much coded centric. The actual ordinance had nothing to do with code that was least in the draft that was presented to Petaluma so it's, it is, it was, it was something that would be changing how the, how the city conducts its business, and the, and what the amount of what the requirements that this ordinance places on businesses, and the tracking etc was was definitely concerning to me. And I think in some ways it might require a, an HR director just to track the, the various requirements in this draft and it is a draft, and the things change very rapidly so it, and I'm acknowledging that. That the draft itself did give me pause. Jeff you want to, well let's go ask the council first so Victoria or Eddie do you have any questions when you, when you're reading the ordinance, right off the bat. You know I don't have questions. Right off the bat about the ordinance. Thank you. Sure, Eddie. For me it's implementation timeline. If we're looking that we're going to be moving into another tier by June 15. When can we present this to our council members, or fellow council members, when can be implemented, and will we even have this done before the June 15, and then moving into the 90 day period which the ordinance speaks of how would that affect us moving further out of the tears. And what the statement might be is it too little too late. And that's something to be discussed. Yeah, and, and I raised I was mentioning the, the potential reality that it actually is not at this point is not even necessary, given the given the high level of need for, for employees. Do you have any, any comment about the capacity of the of our legal department and as far as dealing with this particular item. So just to make sure we're on the same page there's two ordinances the right to recall and the right to retention and their scope is limited to hotels with 50 or more rooms. That's the scope of it. The right to recall ordinance deals with layoffs, and there's a bunch of whereas provisions and it's clearly intended by the drafters that it be coven related response to folks who work for hotels that were laid off, whereas the right to retention ordinance doesn't have the same whereas provision so I don't know what the intent was of the drafters but whether it was to apply to coven or, or anytime. So I'm not sure how much detail you want me to get into it with regard to the specifics of the ordinance but that's kind of a preliminary look the right to retention deals with sales of the hotel. I think there's certain would impose certain requirements on the new purchaser of the hotel with respect to the current employees. Do we know at this point how many hotels will be affected in insight our city limits. Have we done that work. I think I don't have a concrete number for you but we have a lot I mean we have the majority of the hotels in Santa Rosa, and I think there's a lot. Yeah. Okay. Maybe what we do if, if any and Victoria if you don't have any questions for Jeff or race at this point and maybe we just can go to public comment because we're still going to have to decide on how we, what we bring to council and when we bring it to council, if we bring it to council, etc. So, let's go to public comment. I lean do we, I know that we have at least one, one speaker do we have, can we start the public comment period at this point. Yes, pardon me for just a moment. Sarah. You have been unmuted please confirm that you are able to see the timer and introduce yourself if you so choose. Yes. So, my name is Sarah Borshevsky. I've lived in Santa Rosa for about 20 years now. I've worked in hospitality, my whole working life, and I'm currently at the Hyatt hotel for the last 16 years. I think it's very important to support the co workers that haven't been called back. We're talking about low unemployment numbers. We need staff, and I feel like the company is kind of dragging their feet on hiring. And I think it would be really important for them to be encouraged to hire back the people that have, you know, work for them and supported them as a company. I feel like it's now their turn to support us, you know, as employees, and the easiest way to do that is the right to call back. You know, like I mentioned last time, I was involved in the tubs fire. And when the community rallied around us and supported us. It was very important and it was a very good feeling to know that my community not only my friends and family had my back. And I think that, yes, we are winding down, but I think we do need a little bit longer to encourage companies to do the right thing and to call back the people that supported their company. It'll make us stronger as a community and stronger as a business. Thank you. Thanks Sarah. Eileen, any other comments this morning from this item. Yes, we do color 911 for I have unmuted your line and if you would please confirm that you are able to see the timer. Hello. Yes, we can hear you. Okay, thank you. My name is Juanita Galipo. I'm a resident of Santa Rosa. And I work as a banquet server which is totally different than waitressing at a higher hotel region six on my county for more than 16 years. But having laid off in the start of the pandemic is extremely stressful. No, no, and it will be allowed to go if it will be allowed to go back to work. Because at my age, 61, and there is a few more, I work the same. I would not be able to find another job that is enough to afford to live in California. I would have to move out of the state and away from my community, including my daughter and grandchildren, considering that rents are extremely high and so are mortgages. It will be nice to know that our jobs are coming back to us. And I'm coming back to my family at work, since we've spent too many hours together for many years. The working banquet is totally different because we work is everything being ordered. And then we just, we just working big amount of people. So that's why it's not the same as waitressing. And I have worked my, all my, most of my life in basically in catering services or banquet services. So hopefully you can, you can, we can have you back to support each other and to support all the people that haven't been called back. Thank you so much. Thank you, Juanita. Thank you. Hello. Sorry, I apologize. I needed to unmute myself. Do you have an additional hand raise? Ty Hudson. Hi, you may unmute your line. Please confirm that you are able to see the timer and introduce yourself if you so choose. Yes. Are you able to hear me. Yes, thank you. Good morning, council members. My name is Ty Hudson and I, I'm with unite here local 2850, which is the hotel workers union in the East Bay and North Bay. And we're here to urge this committee to forward this, these ordinances to the city council. And I'm here today to share with you just how much work we've done to the city as possible. As you know, the hotel industry has been one of the industry's hardest hit by by the pandemic and, and has been really affected by mass layoffs and that goes for members of our union as well as non union hotel workers. economy, maybe in the single digits, the majority of hotel workers are still laid off, by which I mean over 50%. I would venture to say about 75% of hotel workers are still laid off. And while we're coming out of the pandemic and everybody can see a light at the end of the tunnel, now is exactly the time that we need to ensure that as business expands, as business picks up, the workers who have worked at these hotels for years and even decades, including workers that you've just heard from are able to go back to work and go back to the jobs that they've held for years. As you've heard, not being able to go back to the job that you've held for many years could be a huge disruption in people's lives and a crisis, a temporary crisis like COVID could turn into a real permanent catastrophe and the permanent upending of people's lives. So this is a small, targeted, surgical requirement just to tell hotel employers when you are bringing people back to work, when you need more employees, which is going to be soon, bring back the people that worked for you before. It's common sense, it's fair, it's minimally burdensome. These are just people who, obviously, the company felt were good enough to do the job before and in many cases have done it for many years. So it's just a basic fairness and it's very extremely similar. The draft you have before you is extremely similar to ordinances that have passed all up and down the state of California in San Diego and Los Angeles, other cities in Southern California, Oakland, Santa Clara, and is under consideration in Petaluma. Our understanding is that the City Council in Petaluma will take up a first reading of the ordinance on Monday of next week. I'm going to ask you to wrap up, because even though our clock indicates something different, I think you've reached the end of the comments. So if I can just get you to wrap up, that'd be great. Sure, I saw that I was getting more and more. I was wondering what little fairy godmother was helping me with that. But yes, I'll wrap up. I just wanted to speak very briefly to the second ordinance, which is the Worker Retention Ordinance, also similar to ordinances that are in place in other cities in California and elsewhere that is designed to prevent mass unemployment due to hotel sales or changes of operator. We expect to see that a lot during the pandemic. It's true that it would also apply outside of the pandemic. The AC Hotel in Railroad Square, for example, is currently for sale. And again, a very common sentence ordinance to keep the same people on the same business, even if the ownership changes. And so we urge you to forward these to the City Council as soon as you can. Thank you. Thank you, Ty. Appreciate it. Eileen, any other comments? I believe there were some more comments. I think she just needs to unmute and ask them. I apologize. I didn't want to unmute myself. Ananda Sweet, you are able to unmute yourself. If you would please confirm that you are able to see the timer and introduce yourself. That would be wonderful. Thank you. I can see the timer. Thank you. I guess Ananda Sweet, Santa Rosa Metro Chamber. So again, I just urge that as you explore additional policies and regulations around employers and workforce, it's really crucial to understand any workforce problem we're trying to solve, including the data to support its existence. It's particularly critical to take the time to ensure that any policy solutions that come from this process meet the intended purpose and avoid unintended negative consequences. To do that, you have to truly understand the consequences of any policy solution and the impact of layers of new policy. So I just urge you to take the time to do that. Specific to the right of recall ordinance. This truly is a solution looking for a problem that does not exist. Hospitality employers are eager to rehire staff for a smooth ramp up to normal operations as soon as they're able. And they're facing a workforce shortage with more open positions than there are people to hire any form of right of recall ordinance would only result in additional setbacks delays. It would be extremely burdensome for employers who should be encouraged rather than discouraged from reopening or ramping up to pre-pandemic staffing levels. Any ordinance that adds layers of process, time delays, loss of flexibility absolutely represent an enormous burden and a cost to those employers. And when they can at least afford it. They can also risk to further delaying or permanent loss of those positions rather than protecting them. And slowing rather than aiding our economic recovery by damaging the hospitality sector's ability to recover. It would also harm our overall workforce and their, their opportunity for those positions as soon as able. Thank you. Thanks, Ananda. Eileen, do we have anyone else in the queue? We do. Good morning. And yes, I can see the timer. Brad Colkins visit Santa Rosa. After speaking to many hoteliers, we actually believe this ordinance is these ordinances are completely unnecessary. The hotels targeted under this bill are already bringing back employees who are laid off. As those employees are already trained and familiar with the operations. In fact, our smaller properties have already brought back most of their employees. And as mentioned, the large properties indicate they cannot find enough workers to fill available positions. It is common sense and smart business practice to rehire known trained and former employees who are laid off as a result of this state shutdown. These ordinances also completely slow down the employer's ability to rehire employees. And micromanages the rehiring process by the burdensome provisions in the ordinance. Several of the provisions will only delay rehiring and increase costs on employers. For example, a failure to respond by an employee due to having found another job, moved or lack of interest can hinder the business's ability to interview, hire, train, new staff by two weeks or more. Delaying the rebound from the pandemic. In addition, the state is proposing AB 84, which is similar to these ordinances. Having two ordinances in the same jurisdiction just adds to confusion, increases costs and increases the state and local government administration time. And again slows down the recovery. This ordinance would be better handled at the state level, allowing city council to focus on other pressing issues more important. And more important issues instead of duplicating efforts. In summary, this ordinance is trying to solve a problem that does not exist. In addition, these ordinances would place undue hardship and actually delay the reopening and rehiring process on an industry that was one of the hardest hit during the pandemic. And again, increase government administration costs. Thank you. Thanks, Brad. I lean anyone in the queue. Yes. Mr. Jack. Jack, if you would please can unmute your line and confirm that you are able to see the timer and introduce yourself. If you so choose. Yeah, good morning. Jack. I can't see the timer executive director of the North Bay labor council. Good morning. Council members and staff. I respectfully have to disagree with my friends from the chamber. We've already heard from Tai Hudson and we know that. The hospitality industry has at least 50% unemployment. Currently. I know that from the per capita I receive at the North Bay. Labor council that they do not have anywhere near the number of workers working right now. As compared to pre pandemic. These two ordinances. Are very simple. They just say hire back the people you already had. HR has all their contact information. There was no delay in getting that workforce back. They contact them. They go to work. Doing jobs that many have done for 20 or more years. These provisions have been in many of the collective bargaining agreements that have been in place. At union hotels. The problem is the statute of time has run out because nobody expected folks to be laid off for more than. Three or six months, which is typical in most CBAs. So now that we've been a year. There's still over 50% unemployment. We have a trained workforce that wants to go back to work is ready to go back to work. There is no additional burden to make that happen. It just common sense to do that. What we see happening. Are older employees who had a higher pay rate of being. Not offered jobs as they become available. In an attempt to lower their unit labor costs to do work. We just don't think that's fair to those workers. They'll be not able to survive and live. Here in Sonoma County if we allow that to happen. So I urge you please to move these. Two ordinances forward to the council so we can have a full. Debate. And help these workers in their time of need. COVID is the reason they were laid off. We're coming out of COVID. Thank God. But these workers deserve to have the jobs that they were offered. Thank you for your time this morning. And I appreciate your consideration to move this. These two ordinances forward. Thank you, Jack. Eileen the ball is in your court. Yes, we have an additional speaker. You're line is unmuted. Would you please confirm that you were able to see the timer and introduce yourself if you so choose. Yes. Hi, we can hear you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Hi, my name is Anna Salgado. And I'm a coach here on Norway job with justice. And I'm in here today because I'm a strongly support of the purpose, the purpose ordinance. To make sure that hotel workers can return to work safely and fairly. There are a lot of things that you can do. To make sure that hotel workers can return to work safely and fairly. There are a lot of people in my neighborhood. And the Latinx community. Who work in hotels. And when COVID happened, many of them lost their jobs. And I see how it's getting harder and harder for people to pay rent. Utilities. And. Like now you were mentioning before. Child care. And I think that's why I am here because I really worry about the future of all these families. Because their future it's already compromised with all these pandemic. And also. I would like to make this comment about a previous comments that any extra ordinance to make sure. That the hotel workers can be implemented. It cannot be unnecessary. You know, it's always. In behalf of a show or. Solidarity to our essential workers. So that's why I'm really beg you to support this. And please let's be fair and let's get all together. And to overcome this pandemic struggle. And. On the name of all the workers. Please. It's, it's good to ask them first. You know, the ones that already have their jobs before. Ask them and check with them. Many of them are just very anxious waiting for that call. So thank you. Thank you very much for this. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks, Anna. I lean. Yes. That is our. Oh, actually. I just wanted to take a moment to let the public know that you can only speak. One three minute. Period for each item on. On the agenda. Yes. Due to that, we have no further raised hands. So I'm bringing it back to the, to the, to our panel. Race. This, this always is an issue, especially now. And we have another item. On our agenda, which will have the same kind of question. And it has that does have to do with capacity and where we are dealing with, we're still dealing with the fires and. We've got the pandemic and our current financial condition, although it's been slightly alleviated by some of the monies that are coming in from the, from various government agencies and, and a new, new city manager that needs to be hired, et cetera, which is maybe, maybe not as, as time consuming. It's certainly not as time consuming as these other issues. What do you, what is your opinion about capacity? And Jeff, I would, you know, you touched on it. But what, what do you think about right now about. Our ability to dig into this particular issue. You know, to be honest with you, I mean, it's, um, In order to do it right. I would want to do it the way we did with minimum wages, have it fact based. Um, look at, um, the numbers and the data. Um, you know, I don't know, um, I have concerns about our bandwidth, but it's not just the bandwidth within staff. Uh, at the staff level, but it's also, um, the bandwidth with, uh, uh, Of putting this, um, a policy like this right now as we're trying to rehire and get these processes going for the businesses, but specific to city bandwidth. Um, I do, to be honest with you, have a concern about it. Um, this would take a lot of, uh, time and effort. And I think it would, um, you know, we've got two people, myself and Rafael, who work on these kinds of things. It would mean that we would have to really withdraw from some of the other things that we're doing to really focus in on this. And so I think that's where I start with the question, like, do we actually have this need right now in order to address this? Or is this something, uh, is it not intended to be specific to COVID? Um, because we're seeing the rehiring this happen. Um, I think faster than, uh, than we would have expected, I guess. Um, I, I, yeah, we don't have the band. I mean, to be honest with you, we don't have a lot of them. Was that correct me if I'm wrong. Was that, I think you mentioned that was part of pedal in this concern. It was part of pedal in this concern. And actually when, um, uh, the speaker mentioned that, um, that they're bringing it, uh, up, uh, next week, I, uh, um, I just want to give you an update on the, um, the, um, the current situation is that they're bringing it to the audience. So I'm going to quickly text it. Uh, Ingrid Alverde, my counterpart in, um, Petaluma to ask and she says she's not sure at this point, um, that their city attorney is taking their, one of their attorneys is taking the lead. Um, so they may be looking at it. Um, but I don't know what their timing is. And, um, We talked about it, he learned that maybe there's only two hotels in Petaluma or a very small number that would actually be impacted by this so I think he was going to have some further discussions internally and I don't want to be sharing things that I shouldn't be sharing but I think that's probably pretty common knowledge so I think they're just taking a look at it. I mentioned, I hadn't heard of AB 84 so I quickly looked it up while we were talking and it seems to have similar provisions to this. I don't know what the likelihood is of the state passing and I will say that I was aware that there was a bill pending last year and the governor vetoed it. So, I don't know if they're trying to restructure it a bit or, you know, they're bringing it back now. That's all I know about it. Thanks Jeff. And then my screen froze so I'm not sure it was froze for about a half a minute there. So Victoria and Eddie, I don't think you've had a chance to weigh in or at this point so please by all means. Do you mind if I jump in. Please. Okay, great. So the way that I look at this is probably not going to be any surprise to anybody listening here which is one of where. Well, first of all, I want to express my frustration with the position that cities have been put in I saw an article just the other day about the massive amount of mayors across the nation who are choosing not to run for reelection next year, because of the burden that has been put on cities as a result of leadership lacks at the state and federal level. And to me this max of one of those examples of where the state had a bill that could have been implemented in a way that would have been timely and given certainty to both business and workers, and the governor chose not to sign it into law for whatever his reasons were. But you know time and again cities are being asked to step in and do work that normally we, we, you know would have the time and resources like we did with minimum wage to do. And so, you know I am very sympathetic to the fact that our economic development department is overwhelmed but but I always come back to, you know what is the power dynamic here. In this situation we have, you know, predominantly we have a workforce that is vulnerable and is predominantly women is predominantly women of color, and they have these jobs that that frankly in the industry that that is more likely to be difficult on on women, and, and is not, you know the word, the people that are most vulnerable don't have an ownership stake in what's going to happen to them in their outcome. And so what I don't love about this is that it's, it's very limited it's very narrow in it solves a very specific problem. That being said that the problem is so compelling that I would be hard pressed to to to turn up lined I do it I do understand the business argument that it is one more step of work in terms of, you know, giving these people a call and waiting a few days and that there are shortages of workers. But that being said, you know, you call them you find out if they want to return to work and if they don't, they don't. I get that it adds, you know, one one step of work and that that's just a huge pain in this environment but the flip side is that we have people who generally speaking, are not going to be able to find work that's going to allow them to continue to pay their mortgages and raise their families and live in Sonoma County and, and these folks are the economic drivers. In terms of, you know, the money that they earn goes directly into our economy these are not people with big savings accounts, and other resources so, you know, I feel really torn because I definitely hear both sides of this argument and I and I feel that the issue around staff time is really concerning to me but I'm going to be recommending that that we go forward with trying to protect this group of workers, and, and that we do so in a way that is mindful of the constraints of staff time, as well as the needs of people getting back to work and that it's not overly onerous that it is that we don't have to put into to to law the same thing that other people are other jurisdictions have done we can keep ours quite simple and make it, you know, such that that we sorry I got distracted, but we can keep it quite simple and hopefully not make it to onerous, but I do appreciate all of the comments wrap up there. Can, but can I ask you a quick question. Um, because I mean I think I hear what you're saying because I think that's the same thing that why raising the minimum wage like expedite and $15 per hour minimum wage was was good I mean it's relevant across the board or was is remains relevant across the board. I'm specific to hospitality in our locale is is this with the data that you're hearing and I because if you set aside whatever it's going to take time for staff whatever it's that you know we can set that aside because we can figure that out right. I'm sure at the same time business the hoteliers can figure out how to how to you know do the process of this, but looking at the need specifically are you hearing that because I'm hearing something different like I even before we were looking at this I was speaking to a general manager of a hotel and they raised their rates because they were worried about competition about losing it so like, is this really an issue that you're hearing. Are you saying different I think then what I'm hearing, because I'm not opposed to it, but I'm, I'm concerned about. And so you know I don't know what what you're hearing what I, what I'm hearing so I think, and I don't, I'm going to make an assumption here and feel free to smack me down, if you're not hearing this like let's just be real with each other. So, I don't know that we hear from the same subsets of people, you know, I think that it's well known that that people that that workers and labor groups reach out to me quite frequently and that I do hear these concerns and I don't know how many of those types of. labor groups reach out directly to you but do workers reach out directly to you because I have a feeling like you're hearing probably more from the business side. Yeah, employee side and so I just don't know if we're getting the same data. No, I mean I think but but the thing is is like yeah I 100% agree because I don't tend to get the calls from workers unless it's like can you help me like the calls I get or like, I don't feel like my employer is being fair, you know, especially I get a lot of those kinds of things. Okay. But, but in terms of they're not hiring me back no I don't get those I get a lot, a lot more of the, we don't have enough and our workforce isn't big enough. We can't hire fast enough. You know and it's not just limited to hospitality. The other day, like, I think it was last Thursday, and they're saying, look, we had to seriously consider closing because we can't even hire people and they're like we'll take anybody. And we pay better that I think that's the issue that I come that I hear most about is this anxiety about not having staff and I think the, the thing is is like, you know, I'm not hearing, because I've asked, you know, is it an age thing is it this or that because again with minimum wage people thought it was young people but it's not it's mostly older people it's mostly head of household people. That just doesn't, I'm not hearing the same anxieties for seeing the same data yet. From from the people that I'm hearing from. Oh, and also, I did a quick ask, and it's actually only 13 hotels that have more than 50 rooms in Santa Rosa we have a lot of hotels, but only 13 of those have more than 50 rooms so we would be affecting of the hundred, why I don't know how many lodging establishes we have, if this will only affect 13. Right and so you know to that end like you know it's a much smaller and sorry there's somebody operating. One of those awful yard implements outside I can't tune it out another ordinance. I know I know it's not. Jeff just plug your ears. But she's, I need to figure out how to get people like my mom is texting me while I'm like on the zoom and I'm trying to respond like, oh my gosh, does anybody have that problem. Yes, yeah. I have a 16 year old I'm like, simmer down. Sorry, this is so important. Okay. So anyway, I'm like minimum wage which impacted, you know, untold numbers of business okay we've got 13 businesses here. We've got a particularly vulnerable group of people who many of them would have been covered under their, their collective bargaining agreements. You know I start to wonder then you know how much time resources would it actually really take do we have to get gathered together bunch data or we can we just say you know it's these 13 businesses. It's these workers that are incredibly valuable to us. I guess it's this extra step can we how can we make this step not to own our own business and protect this group of people so that we can have these mortgages paid, and these workers families lives not more disruptive than it's already been in our city. That's I guess where I stand with with it. Did I answer your question right so I feel like yeah I mean essentially I mean I think I think I think the big question is really is it are we confirming, you know. Because they're two sides of the coin but the question is the same are people really not being rehired because of age. I mean again I'm hearing closer I mean I don't talk to the chamber about this but I mean when I talk to people about the hotel groups about this. So, a lot of times the older workers with more experience are actually more beneficial like the cost, even if they make more. It's worth the cost. So like again it goes back to, I don't, I don't even some ways care about bandwidth right. So what comes down to, is it, are we answering something for this location, because I don't doubt it's an issue in places. But for us, is it an issue. And so I don't know that we are going to be able to prove that specifically that it is or, you know without doing the kind of research that you did for minimum wage here and I'm not sure that it warrants it. Exactly what I would say is this is like the hotel, the hotel is are saying, we are having trouble rehiring people, people who work at the hotels are saying, we're not getting recalled, based on our age and gender. And I ask one thing on that because I did hear that in the comments, sorry to cut you off. But the thing is is like making them the right to recall doesn't make them hire refaster if the business it cannot sustain an employee is hiring them faster going to sustain that So I mean it's, I think that they're rehiring but they're rehiring cautiously, because we don't know like we've gone through so many ebbs and flows with coven that we've rehired and, and then had to let go. And so, is it, I mean I guess I just want to even question that that premise. So questioning the premise which premise like nine different premises. Yeah, it was. Sorry. It's not that the ordinance is saying you have to rehire everyone now. I think it's what it's stating is, if you decide to rehire. Here's the list of those individuals that you should call first. I think it's important to hire, but when they do decide to hire is the individual not to hire first. Yeah, I think I was. Yeah, you're right. That's what the ordinance is I think somebody one of the public statements was like no we need to do it faster I'm like doing it faster isn't going to help. Like we just don't know we have we don't know when. Yeah. So thanks Eddie I think that that just kind of is exactly what I'm trying. I think clarifies it's just like, if you're going to hire. All these people first. That's all that I think that we're like asking here and I hope that we can maybe just keep it that simple. Yeah. And if they don't respond they don't want to come back to work that's also fine like, you know, okay. Thank you for that comment. I believe there's a period where you call a block of employees and give them an opportunity to respond that I do want to take the job, or they can actually reject it and say I've either found another job, or I'm not ready to go back to work yet. This is definitely the option. And I appreciate the comments that were made before me. And I'm looking at this from the perspective of a business person. It's at and we've heard it. I'll make when what I've heard during the comments. It's absolutely logical that I would hire those employees with the most amount of experience. It's absolutely logical that I want to provide the customers with a great service and that has to be done by having enough staff to do so. I definitely relate this conversation to the conversation that council full council had a week ago in regards to the tenant landlord issue. In a perfect world, we would definitely see the benefits of each other and how we're supposed to be helping each other. But we have job security and the stress of what if, and we were looking at the population, especially those in the hotel industry, we're looking at over 650 employees. 15 times 50 I believe that's the math. And a lot of the employees inside these establishments are older age are are higher in the age female employees. It does cost concern. And when we're looking at the ability for them to find jobs elsewhere, after having placed so many years of service in these establishments and these entities. I definitely understand why they would have that concern. And I think this council I'm still learning what the duties of council is, but I feel that is it is not so much looking at the workload that we're looking at or looking at looking at, but that one individual stress that one of plight, and to definitely give that individual voice. And if that was for us simply to say that our positions council is to make sure that those individuals from the hotel industry, consider to the value of those employees, especially during the pandemic era. I definitely would have to side for that, for that side, even as a business person, because I do want to get or receive and employ the most experienced employees. And thank you, Victoria as well, both for your recommendations and frustrations of government in general, especially at the state and federal level. I'm wondering, Ray said, so I can hear if we were to bring this before council I can, I can hear a conversation that might start from the very concern that you have which is a battle of the of the of the statistics if you will. Given your relationship with the very with those 13 hotels. How much time do you think it would take because it's quite I do believe the question will come up about the need for the for this for this ordinance. How much time would it take to contact those 13 and ask them about their policies, and if they would be willing to be, if they would be willing to go public with their policies around rehiring those that have been laid off. My concern is, I, and I, you know, it will come no has no surprise to anyone sitting here that government overreach is always a concern of mine and as a former business owner. I think that honed my my concern about about that overreach. The draft and Victoria you mentioned that we could always come up with something simpler and I think that's true. Because the draft that that I read was was, I kind of, I first thought I could just read part of it and as soon as I read some of that some of the where as is it made me read it page to page and I really did. And my eyebrows were up to my, my, my hairline which is of course getting higher and higher as we speak. So I'm, I know that they're going to be asking for the, where's the need. What is the problem we're solving. What is the reality and in our in our current area. So, how, how hard would it be to ascertain the attitude of our of those 13 hoteliers or hoteliers I kind of like the the fridge twist on that Victoria. I'm just a student of you. So what do you think right so I can, I mean, if, if I have maybe a few weeks, just to make the rounds and to make the calls. And I think the other question if I may Jeff wants to speak in here I mean there are certain things where I know even from the minimum wage ordinance that we took them out like the promulgation or the things there's some things there's a lot of elements of handing over to the city that we might want to look at as well. And so I give that to Jeff for his legal review of it. So do you have me to speak to that now. Yeah, you do my John. Please please. That's that's why we, we'd like the lack of formality. It works. So, so this right to recall ordinance. You're fairly accurate in your understanding of it. This this draft from Labor does obligate the city to do certain things including the city manager's office to provide some notice. It provides for a private right of action kind of like we did with the sick leave ordinance, but it also says the city could bring the action. There are areas of a further city involvement. So I would want if we are going to bring an ordinance to the full council. Maybe you could give some direction on those issues. The other piece I'll point out and we really have kind of not talked about the right to retention ordinance, which the scope appears to be not coven but just anytime there's a sale. There's a section in the right to recall ordinance that says, not only will layoffs trigger it, but a sale of the hotel will also trigger it. So there's there's a lot of the doubles in the details a bit. I also wanted to find what a laid off employee is just so you understand. And it's somebody who's worked at least six months. And by the way, it excludes managers and supervisors. They were separated after January 31 2020. So the employer will be required to notice all folks who fit that category that that they are that the that this ordinance was enacted so they have to give that notice. And then when they decide they want to rehire, they do it in order of seniority whether it's one at a time or more than one based on seniority kind of like a council member Alvarez was saying it's seniority based, and then, according to the draft ordinance they have 10 days whether or not to accept or reject the offer. And I remind you that there is this parallel track of state law that was just amended by the state senate. Some days ago so there's that parallel track and the ordinance crafted here by labor seems quite similar to the to the state law would be great if they move fast and we're done and took it off. And I think what the council member Fleming was suggesting but obviously don't know what the, what the, what this, what the track on that is and what the governor will do and why he vetoed it last time I don't know. Thanks Jeff. Eddie or Victoria, do you have any questions on what Jeff just presented or, or vice. More than a comment I mean when we look at the right to retention. After a sale of a hotel. What, what, what does it do to to the firing of a full staff. What does that do to our economy opposed to the 90 days or that the company has to to retain the employee and in those 90 day period would it give the employee an opportunity to show the employer that they are worth keeping. So I'm afraid I don't understand the, the intricacy of the limitations of government, and you're right, john, when it comes to business people, we definitely look at the overreach of government as something negative to our ability to to thrive and and have the to thrive as well, but I definitely do worry about having to fire a full crew for a hotel, once it's being sold in the 90 days make sense to me. And again in the perfect world we wouldn't have to have discussion. And it's kind of said that we do have to have this discussion. Thank you. Well, at this point, I, I'm not sure how to move forward a minute, if, if we have a. I would like to retain a motion to bring this to bring this to council, to bring a recommendation to council. Do you want me. Sorry to jump in do you want, do you want me to come back with more information like those questions you asked is that helpful, or would you do come back here, because then it be a question is, do if we hone in and I work together and figure out what the legal issues are and the data. Is it better to come here to go directly to council. Well it's chicken and egg because I think what they're going to ask is, they're, they're going to be asking those questions is what is the, what is the impact. What is that and what is the need. And so even before before I would think I'm my guess is even before they would decide on moving forward with they may even I mean, this is the chicken and egg part. Are they going to say, we don't like it already. We don't want to dedicate staff time to that research, or they're going to say, we need the research before we make a decision. It's hard to know. I mean personally, I would like, I would like to be able to have that contact with the whistle with those 13 hotels and find out what their attitude is, because if if they are, if they are really struggling on to finding people and and people are making more money on unemployment than they were working than they are working which is true in many cases with the arrest with the restaurateurs. I'm finding employees because they were making more on unemployment and and other ways as well. Not that that's everybody so that I don't want to cast that broad brush where it's inappropriate but that is part of our reality. I'm not sure what what the council would would would recommend whether they're going to wait for more information. I mean I would like that, but then it does delay the decision that it would delay bringing it to council. Yeah, so the issue that I have with the focus on the data is not that it's not important it's that in this situation, we have an issue of time. And if we ask it to come back to this group then it's going to put it another month off of council and that the to john's point that we kind of have a sense of the questions that council might ask. And I think that, you know, clearly, we're not all in agreement or torn. I think this is an issue for the full council. I know that we're doing it publicly. I know this is not an easy thing to do but if we can just sort of collect the data and bring it to council and let the council bat it around. I think that that would be the fair thing to do. Well, I can't argue with that when I think it's works. It's a difficult situation regardless of which way we move. I mean, I don't know which members are going to say we don't have enough data. I could probably give you the full right now, but you know, assuming it goes to study session. I mean we have a six week lead time I think it is even like study sessions keep moving out. So I mean it, we might still be able to come back here. A little bit. But I do have to get the staff reports in early. I think I think it's six weeks. Yeah, it's, it's being pushed out further and further as time goes on. Given that perhaps I mean I can see that I can see the direction and what I would ask and you know everyone or you both my council members know how I feel about this one, this particular one. I'm looking for more information as well and it looks like we might given given the lead time that we're already dealing with and it's not going to. I don't do not believe that it would stand the test of urgency. I don't think Jeff. Okay, thank you. So that's not that wouldn't push it faster. So, by the time it gets to us. Well I would have to us to a study session. So, I can assume then that Victoria you or Eddie might be bringing this up for future Council discussion to provide a little bit of background and then state state the state the state the case as you see it, and then let the council make a decision, and then we'll, we would be somehow getting on the calendar. And, and then in the meantime, given that long lead time, which is frustrating, no small number of people on our in the organization and Council and as well that we might have the information that they're looking for by that time. I mean, if that's if that's okay with you, we don't need to take a vote. I, you know, just, just a willingness I'm a one of you Victoria or you Eddie to bring this forward as a future item for the Council to discuss. Absolutely, if I could absolutely if I could just highlight the fight of a 16 one year old lady who might not find another job elsewhere with that's definitely who I'm looking at. You know, and that that resonated with me as well that I think probably of all the commenters that particular issue is is of concern, and that's why it would be. It would be great to get a a kind of litmus test if you will to by contacting those employers and finding out, assuming that they are willing to share that information with us. That would be helpful to me because I did I felt for her for sure. So I think, then you, one of the Council members Eddie it sounds like you will bring it up to the place and then I can work behind the scenes with staff just giving a heads up and start looking for a date. I think that. Did I ask a procedural question, john when you asked one of us will need to bring it up. Is that different from us as a committee recommending that the Council take it up. No, well, um, no, we could it could be either one, but there would be but it would that it would need to be stated that it was not a unanimous recommendation. Okay, so that's the only difference I think can we just for a sake of simplicity than just take a vote I don't want to put you know sure because I know that you know but just so that we can just get it directly going. I'll put it on the floor that we take this issue to the full Council. And I'll second from, and we had and we have a second, and then if I could have a roll call also Jeff. Can I just clarify you're talking about both ordinances. Oh boy. I think that we bring this issue to the Council is more specifically because the ordinances I think I think that the ordinances we might need to rework and we have more information about since it's specifically 13 businesses, maybe it won't need to be both ordinances but that we just take that the Council taken a full look at this. So that's my recommendation for a study session that's my recommendation. And I will be fine with both ordinances, including that conversation. Okay. Okay. All right, so I'm. So if I could get a. Eileen, could you take a roll call though. I was on mute. Council member over us. Thank you. Council member Fleming. Hi. And chair Sawyer. No. Thank you. Okay. Thank you both. And thank you all. So what I'm, we are now at 1133 and this meeting was supposed to last an hour and a half. And if I can, I think I'm within my, my, is it would it be recommended Jeff to continue this meeting so that we can deal with 3.3. The PLA discussion, given how long our last one. And it's important. It's an important discussion. So it does not surprise me that that the, that 3.2 took as much time as it did, but 3.3. We'll take even more time. Okay. We might even make that as well. Right. So if we were to make that a single item for next, for our next meeting. Yeah. We can do that. I might have to have. Just for. Parklets. I might just have to take 10 minutes or something like this just to let you know, because frequently what the city manager wants is for us to have. We can do that. So I could probably do that in 15 minutes. And then we could take the rest of the hour and 15 minutes for PLA. Okay. That sounds good. And Jeff, is it okay? Can I just, should I continue this or should I, because it is on our agenda 3.3 is sitting there. Undiscussed. Or do I just close this meeting and put that at the, at the top of our agenda for near the top of our agenda. At our next meeting. Okay. I'm sorry. The latter. You can just close the meeting and have it on the next agenda. Okay. I appreciate that. And I'm my apologies to those that may have been looking to, to weigh in on 3.3. But we, this is a council day and we have our, our schedules are fairly tight. So we will take up the PLA discussion. And then we will continue the meeting. And then we will take the rest of the hour. And then we will get into the meeting. And then I'm going to start with Parkless as well being Parkless, being the first item. And I thank you all for being here this afternoon, or this morning, and we will see you at the council meeting this afternoon. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for the discussion. Thank you. Thank you.