 Okay, we're back live. It's our last show of the week. It's the 4 o'clock on a Friday. Wow, exciting. Marcia Joyner is here to act as my co-host, and I'm acting as her co-host, okay? We are honored today to have Kaniyia Ying, and he is representative, state representative from Maui. Welcome to the show, Kaniyia. No, thanks for having me. Yeah, great to have you here. We have important things to discuss. We do, but I just want to make one caveat for people that usually watch the 4 o'clock show on Friday. Beatrice is in California, who have treatments, and she will be back this week. The plane arrives late today, so we said, yes, we would absolutely be here in her stead. So here we are. So for all of her viewers, give her your prayers, and she will be back. We're sitting in for her today, and I hope her plane does not get jammed up at the airport because of your president, Donald Trump, who is here today. But don't even leave him home. Don't even talk about it. We've got a nice, young, beautiful man who is starting out in politics. Kaniyia, she called you beautiful. Well, okay. Listen, at my age, I can do that. Come on. But he's starting out this whole new... It's hopeful for me to see young people like this to take a step forward in politics. We need this. The next generation kind of thing. We need to see this. Yes, we need to see this. We don't need any more warmed-over politicians. We don't need glass ceilings. So you might run for office. Can you talk about it just a little? Well, I'm in office. I mean, another office aside. Well, I mean, I'm sort of an unlikely politician. I don't come from money or power. My mom worked at Liberty House. My dad went to tables out of a new member at a hotel. So, you know, when I first ran for office at 22, people... I could count the amount of folks who thought I had a chance with one hand and half of them at my mom's house, actually. But, you know, we had this idea that if you actually listen to people, it doesn't matter. It was on the other side. So I knocked on $15,000 personally in a Republican district against Tea Party incumbent. And we won by 26%. And so since then, I've just been trying to, you know, not let the influx of money in politics affect my decisions, kind of keep that grassroots feel. We do engage a lot on social media and stuff, which, you know, sort of a lot of folks my age do. But it is really old school and the fact that we're actually going door to door and making that personal connection. So I think that's how it's been. It's been six years, though, in the state house. And the things I want to do for my district, I've accomplished. And now I serve as majority policy leader, issues of statewide importance. But what is majority policy? What does that mean? So in the house, thanks for asking. So in the house and the Senate, we both have our priorities. And so it's not just like a bunch of ideas thrown against the wall and see what sticks in the beginning of the session. We have a majority policy leader that brings the different chairs together and tries to figure out where we have common ground and where we can push forward a package together. And it has to be issues of statewide importance. So climate change, global warming, sea level rise. If Waikiki goes underwater, the whole state's economy is pretty much wiped out. I'm glad you're thinking about that. Yeah, so it's how we really don't have time on our side. And that's what the scientists yesterday really revealed that we need to act now. And for folks like me, the future is not an abstraction. Like this is our survival on the line. So you might consider another office. Yeah, so with the vacating of Colleen Hanabusa, who's looking to run for governor, it leaves a sort of vacuum in Hawaii politics. And I know Mark Dukai who held the seat before her. He was actually the first legislator I met. I was ASUH president at the time, UH student body president. Linda Lingo cut our university about $130 million. So I sent this email to the legislator saying, you know, can you meet with students going to discuss this? He was the only one who met with me. And he told me, because he was the ASUH president too. Yeah, and he was the ASUH president as well. So he showed me what he did as president and through his time in the legislature. And I really got the bug. I'm like, well, you can really accomplish a lot through public service. Unfortunately, Mark wasn't able to serve about the 20 years that he committed to the job. So, you know, as he was a mentor to me and the shoes that really can't be filled. But I really like to, you know, continue on that legacy and get in there, commit decades and really gain the seniority we need because this Trump thing will come and go. But what's going to change is the, you know, the makeup of the house. There's going to be a democratic majority eventually. And what we need is seniority in order for our small state to really connect. So that's why I'm considering taking a shot at me. Now, you graduated commandment school, did you? I did, yeah. And then UH, my dad went to Kaimuki High School. My mom went to HCC, didn't finish. They fell in love and started a family really early. So, you know, our first generation college graduate, my dad passed away when I was around 12. So we relied on government programs and our community and teachers and coaches and our church. And, you know, I picked pineapples. That was my first paycheck. So I understand that when I talk to my grandmother, if she didn't stand up against the corporate establishment of her time, or at least the political establishment at the time, I might still be on the plantation. So how do we honor those roots that really created the middle class here in Hawaii to rebuild their middle class, which is sort of getting pushed out by, you know, the international investors coming in. And, you know, if, I mean, you just look at Kaka Ako, you see like these luxury high rises, that these condos going for $20 million a piece now. Or more. Or more. Literally adjacent to veterans and native Hawaiians living on the streets. Yeah. And it's just, we're asking like, you just got to ask like, who are we building for? Yeah. And what can we do about it? I think that's what's frustrating a lot of everyday folks when I talk to them is, you know, can we build their way out of this? Probably not with an insatiable demand coming from the mainland. We're going to have to do some controls for probably tax, luxury homes, empty units, and actually subsidize workforce and affordable housing. So those are the sort of things we're focusing on now through the house. And federally, we definitely could use more infrastructure funds. I think we need to spearhead really bold infrastructure spending to the tune of trillions, actually, instead of just throwing that to the military and elsewhere. And then in turn, that would create thousands of jobs, move us to a readable energy future. And, you know, if another rail situation happens, it won't fall on the backs of white residents if we have that massive amount of federal funding. Yeah. Wow. Great points, Kamiella. This resonates with my whole world view. Thank you. Thank you. I don't know if it's probably for, like, big tech. Let's go back to the priorities then, based on what you just said. Now, you say the name of the committee again? So the committee I chair is Ocean Marine Resources. No, I'm at the priority committee. Oh, so I serve as majority policy leader. Majority policy leader. And the chair of this ocean committee. So what are those projects, the ones that have had priority? Can you tell us or have you decided yet? We're working on it now. So we had a retreat for the first time this happened in about at least 20 years under the leadership of Scott Psyche. He just came in. He decided that rather than just having everyone submit their priorities and then having the majority leaders trying to just sift through them. We actually bring all the subject matter chairs into the room and we discuss our priorities, our red flags for our communities that they don't like and our committee goals. So we all went around and did that and then that way we could work out the kinks. That's a very good idea. And it was probably the most substantive policy discussion I've seen in my six years in legislature. And some of the more veteran folks, 12, 20 years, said similar things. Actually, I know folks get like this heart and they think that we just act politically and expediently. But everyone that gets involved in public service, even the ones that can seem jaded at times, they're really ma. Like they really understand the policy behind the things they're doing and their hearts aren't coming from the right place. So it was sort of a, this was just last week. It was a real encouraging meeting. So I'm looking forward to falling through and hopefully we can come up with a better policy. It's all about policy. And a lot of legislators say, bring me your issues, bring me your suggestions and I will sign bills or whatever it is. But really it should be, we think about this all day. We have policy priorities. We will deliver ideas to you and then you can react to us. And then we will adopt legislation based on our perception of those policy points. This is a better way to do government. It's wonderful. I've never, in all the years I've been a handmaiden to power. I have never heard this happening. Never. And it's a wonderful idea. The Democratic Party in its platform said these are our priorities. They sent all these priorities to the legislature. 80 were not even acted upon. 80 of those priorities weren't even acted upon. So this is a great time way to look at, okay, the party sent this. Let's look at this. What out of this can we really have? Did you say that you're a handmaiden to government? No, a handmaiden to power. A handmaiden to power? Yeah. Okay. You heard it here on Think Tech. Handmaiden to power. Let's go on. Let's go on to this conference on yesterday at the Capitol on our reefs. Let's talk about that. Big environmental question. What is it? Reef madness. Reef madness. Reef madness. Great title. Yeah. Not to be confused with the 1970s propaganda piece. No, no, no. We're not going there. This was about the ocean. What happened? Oh, so the idea was, I don't know a lot of people, a lot of people watch that Netflix documentary chasing corals. It's been on the four of folks consciousness over the last few months. So we thought this was a good opportunity. Starvertizer did a great article about the state of our reefs and overfishing. So we started contacting researchers, community groups and the department. Me meaning your committee? Your policy group. Me and just my office staff. Okay. That session I only have one office staff. Your chair of which committee? The ocean marine resources and Hawaiian affairs. Oh, so that's a perfect place for this to be. Yeah. Okay. So then we worked with Chris Lee from Kailua through his committee in energy and environmental protection. Sure. We did a joint hearing. And the idea was often when you go through the session, the department is saying we don't have enough data and the scientists are saying we need to take action here, but they're taking like the politics for granted. The politicians are taking the science for granted. And there's like this disconnect between the three parties. Yeah. So we figure if we bring the researchers from NOAA and UH and the DNR and Dar and policy makers into the same room, then we can sort of hold each other accountable and create that synergy or stop any chasms that might come up. And that's actually what happened. So we broke it up to three, three sessions for the first on coral bleaching, which has kind of been on the really big issue in the last few years, the Great Bear Reef, the biggest reef in the world outside Australia is effectively dead due to a catastrophic coral bleaching event. What was the event? They call it bleaching events. It just happens. It's almost spontaneously. The sea level temperature goes up a couple of degrees and all of a sudden environmental changes. Yeah. This happens. That's a dead reef. That's a dead reef. Yeah. Well, that one might not. Yeah. That one's actually dead. So at first it turns white and then. Can we go back? Even though it's bleached, it can still recover. But after a certain point. Like that. Yeah. Right there. That's dead. That might still have a chance. So they bleach and then they can come back because like reefs are made of so much different living creatures and polyps. So it's like a, it's not necessarily one creature. So it's like an ecosystem in itself. So it's, we don't have exact science of, you know, how quickly or resilient they can recover. So what happened in Australia that could happen here? Could happen here. And actually there's been a couple really bad bleaching events in the last few years. And it's interesting that if we don't act now, then it's likely that our reefs will actually be devastated. Big question though. So why do we care? Why do we care if the reef dies? How does it affect you and me and even Marsha? Well, first is recreation. So I don't know. I haven't been snorkeling much. So that's the first thing, but that affects the tourism market because they rely on, you know, selling snorkels and their tours. But, and secondly, probably much more importantly is our local food supply and like the long line fishing industry and near shore fishing industries. And lastly, just generally, if an economist did a study on Hawaii's reefs and I think the estimate was around $7 billion value to our economy. And that's very conservative. So if our reefs were to be devastated, our entire economy would take, would probably fall into a statewide recession. Yeah. Yeah. Let me add a thought though. And I'm sure this came up in your discussion is that the reefs are, we don't know the full extent of the effect of the decline of the reefs on our environment, our greater environment. So changes in sea water temperature, that affects the reef. But then if the reef dies, part of the ecology is gone. It's out of the picture and you don't know what happens after that. What other forms of life are affected? What other effects there are in the ocean in general and on the land for that matter. So I mean, we don't know the whole story yet. We only know it's a bad story if we lose the reefs. Yes. Yeah. Tell me about this suntan lotion. The bill was before the legislature last year and didn't pass. But that has an effect on the reef, the suntan, whatever that chemical is in the suntan lotion. So what happens now with that? Okay. So the hearing is broken up to three parts. The first was coral bleaching. The second was overfishing. And the third was water quality and toxins and pollution. And then we had community groups, researchers, and the department weigh in for all three. Now in regards to coral bleaching, the number one effect or number one cause is actually carbon emissions. So anything we can do to move towards our 100% renewable energy goal is welcome. But we can't do that alone. It needs to be global action. President Trump's decision to pull out of the Paris agreement is a horrible step backwards for our renewable energy goals and reducing emissions, but particularly in the way it affects our reefs. So that was the most... I mean, if we had scientists on the show, they probably did a much better job explaining this, but that was the main takeaway point was that carbon emissions is the number one thing for coral bleaching. For the fish populations, we need more marine protected areas. So Governor Ige came out with his initiative protecting 30% of nearest shore fisheries by 2030. I think it's a great initiative. There's no teeth to it. So what does that mean? What is it? It's aspirational. So if you look at West Hawaii, there's... But to their credit, the department seems to be a lot more open to it. And in yesterday's hearing, we got them to agree to support a mandate for 2030. So it's not just an aspirational goal. It's a mandate. And then they can actually make a case for funding because it's a legislative mandate. So how do you accomplish this? How do you implement the goal, the aspirational goal? Yeah, so we need to map out... For me, my ideal reef management or fishery management system would encompass fully protected marine protected areas with no take, but just in small areas because even if you have like a small bay that's protected, it kind of trickles out like a nuclear fish populations. And then you expect fish to be able to fish right outside of it. And that's not a bad thing. That's the point, right? So there's more fish. So it actually encourages fishing. And then more like urban bore replenishment areas for like aquarium populations at Uuhu, which is really a threat, the parrot fish that make our sand. And then community-based fisheries, like we've seen in Oomomi and Haina, where you actually go to the community and the people that use that area as their icebox, the kupuna and the subsistence fishers who know the tides and breeding patterns better than any like bureaucrat or politician, they make the rules themselves and they do it through the O&R. And that's a model that's been really successful across the world and we're finally catching on here. So that's a... They'll map it out and then work with the department and it's just a matter of how quickly they can do it and whether or not they have enough resources. And then of course enforcement and funding they'll care. This is a big subject. It is. And actually we're going to take a short break. Okay. We're going to regroup and when we come back, we're going to let Marcia ask her question which is driving her. It is. She's the handmaiden of power. Yeah, power. And I hear you. I just... The Vapi Venzone will get through. Yeah, that will get through. We'll be right back after a short break. You too, Marcia. It's nice to know you're going to get home alive. For every game day, a sign a designated driver. Guys, don't forget to check me out right here, the Prince of Investments. I'm your host, Prince Dykes. Each and every Tuesdays at 11 a.m. Hawaii time. I'm going to be right here. Stop by here from some of the best investment minds across the globe. And real estate, finances, stocks, hedge funds, managers, all that great stuff. Thank you. Guess what? This is Think Tech. And we're here late on Friday afternoon. And gee, it's our four o'clock show with Kaniella Ng, state representative. And he is the majority policy leader of the state legislature. Is that right? State House. Of the state house in majority policy leader of the state house. This is very important. Because they identify issues and determine priorities. Very important for coordinating all the committees, especially in environment. Okay. And you had a conference just yesterday at the state capitol involving the, what is it, the reefs? The reef madness, as you will, to examine with appropriate experts from UH and otherwise, and legislators and anyone interested, I suppose, came down to participate in discussion about what the problem is with the reefs, what the direction of that problem is and how we fix it. And this program is called Solutions to Overfishing, but it's not only overfishing. It's suntan lotion, either. Suntan lotion. And also, and we were talking about that during the break. Can you, you had a question, Marcia. I know you had a question and I want to offer you the opportunity to finally, after all this time, express yourself. Okay. This last year, last two sessions, in fact, this issue came up about the suntan lotion and that chemical that's in the suntan lotion. And that is... Oxybenzone. Oxybenzone. Okay. And it comes up all the time and if you've been to Waikiki and you walk down the beach, you can actually smell copper tone. You smell it. It's there. And they say that one chemical is part of the reason the reefs are dying. I want to know if that's part of the priority, if we can get it past the lobbyists this year, which we haven't been able to do the last two years. So copper tone is owned by Bayer. Bayer just bought Monsanto and, you know, among environments, Monsanto's the dirty word. Can we get it done this year? Personally, I hope so. I'm not speaking on behalf of the entire house right now because that's something... The majority of the policy that things that we push as a body tend to be things that have been worked through, so there's a little bit less kinks. So this year, hopefully, like boat by mail, you know, paved family and sick leave, those sorts of things have a really good shot. These more particular issues, I'll definitely be spearheading it through my committee. I know the Chair of Energy and Environmental Protection, who will also be seeing this bill, Representative Chris Lee, has been supportive in the past of finding a way forward. The question is, is it going to be a ban on usage, a ban on sale? Is there some kind of compromise that can be reached? For me, I tend to be more precautionary. If there's data that says that it may be dangerous and there's not enough data and there's no made analysis, then it's better to be safe than sorry. There's no data to say that it's really harmful. In my mind, we need to prove that it's not harmful. And that's actually how most industrialized, especially European nations, handle these sorts of environmental policies. What's the damage about it? There's no damage in passing such a measure, right? Well... Some guys can't sell some kind of suntan lotion. That's it? Yeah. So I think last year we had ABC Store against it. Copper Tone Lobby. Of course. But the raw suntan lotions that are not as destructive, right? Yes. Yeah, so as long as there's an alternative, then there's not much damage for the public. It is... If you use... There are some that rub really well. They're a little bit more expensive, but not drastically. And once they're able to produce some in more bulk, the price might go down. But I think the issue with oxybenzone is not just when it rubs off into the water, but actually it absorbs into your skin. This is what came out of the hearing yesterday. It absorbs into your skin, and then after you... It can enter our sores and their injection wells through urine and then really pollute the water quality that way as well. How about your body? To say nothing of your body. To say nothing of your body. Who knows what the effect is there? Can you imagine what this does to little kids on the beach? Right, being exposed to it. No, I'm rubbing it into their skin as they're growing and their immune system and all of those kind of things. And again, if there's unknowns, I don't think it's not necessarily responsible for me to be like, you know, danger, danger. But again, the precautionary principle is we shouldn't wait until there's a sacrificial lamb to take action. Or millions like we did with big tobacco. And okay, if I'm a parent and I do this and I know that you knew and didn't tell us, then I can sue you. You mean the producer of the suntan lotion? Well, who knows what the story is there? Can I shift gears for a minute? Can we talk about fishing for a minute? Okay, what was the discussion on fishing and did it include aquaculture? I think the biggest takeaway from the scientists or as much as there was a consensus was that people were the problem. And you can control for water quality and whatever else, but the areas that are the most depleted, the fisheries that are most depleted are the areas with the highest populations and the most density. So Oahu is outside, actually the entire Oahu. West and South Maui are just like completely, like the fisheries are almost wiped out. Yeah. And Molokai is right. Is it really in territorial waters or does it extend outside beyond territorial waters? So the focus with Dr. Freelander's research, he's the one that made that front-page star advertiser article last week, or two weeks ago. His research is mostly about near shore fisheries. But there's, NOAA actually came to when they talked a little bit more about like the pelagic fisheries as well. What are the boundaries, the state, how far out of the water? Oh, I forget this. Well, the traditional state boundary is three miles. Three miles. The contiguous zone is 12 miles. Are you a fisher? No, I was in the Coast Guard once. Oh, okay. So that's only 12 miles from Sandy Beach to Molokai's 39 miles. Yeah. Well, that's open water. That's open ocean between the islands. Yeah. So what about those waters? Who determines fishing in those waters? Anybody? Nobody. Nobody? Well, the federal government does. But that's not a state matter, I don't think. Sure it is. Between the islands. Maybe it could be a state matter. It should be. But that would have to... I mean, the fish doesn't know, there's no sign underwater that tells the fish you are now leaving the state. Well, what about that? I mean, it's been an industry in the state for many, many years. A lot of people live on fish that they catch in their small boats. They are overfishing. I mean, local people are overfishing, right? Right. It's not only commercial, it's local people. That's exactly it. And we have to do something to resurrect the fisheries. And this is, you know, remember the fight about the monument out there the last couple of years with Obama? So, I mean, to me, this is a critical problem. It's also, and I asked you also, it's a critical problem about aquaculture, especially the big islands around Nellah. What are we going to do to allow aquaculture at the same time resurrect the fisheries? This is not easy. And I, myself, I cannot think of measures that would actually accomplish this. Can you? No. I mean, look, when you're carrying a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. So, we do try to look at things that we can affect through a policy. But it's sort of irresponsible and naive to think that, you know, being at the 20,000-foot level, we can just tinker with things and things will just fix. A lot of it will come from community action. What we can do is help facilitate education. There was some funding a few years back. I don't even know if you remember that commercial on TV with the guy who was like bragging up. He pulls up on his truck and he's his friend. He's like, oh, bro, I cut all these fish. And the guy's like, what you're going to do with all that fish? You remember the commercial? Yes. So, that kind of thing to help people know to get back to the indigenous roots and just take what you need and then leave the rest. But the issue is enforcement for a lot of these because if you're dole care and there's like bag lambs on certain fish and you're a DLNR officer, you can't really inspect the coolers. How would you know? Especially without probable cause, you can't really infringe on this person. And are there enough DLNR officers to look at the vast majority of fishing? All the fishing. The short answer is no. No. All over the state. And they're overburdened. Their scope of their duties are like, they have to enforce parking and everything. So, we're trying to figure out a way to have just dedicated fishing enforcers fund more. But the issue, like you alluded to, it's not necessarily just the commercial guys. I think the biggest impact on the near-shore fishery is actually more recreational every day. Fisher is one-third of the population claims they fish today. We're the only shoreline state in the entire U.S. that doesn't have recreational fishing permits. When you say that, some people throw their hands in the air, like it's like a draconian thing. But even a nominal fee like $10 a year can really make an impact when you're talking about thousands of fisherfolk and using that money for conservation. That's what I was going to ask with that money. Would that money be dedicated to all of these things, the environment? If you got fishing permits, would that money be dedicated to enforcement, to restocking, to whatever you had to do to make this a viable industry again? Yeah, and the flip side of that, remember I just came back from Nelha, is the aquaculture in cages that the law permits and DLR manages off the Big Island, but also in other possible areas where we can grow a lot of fish for ourselves and even export without actually injuring the fisheries. And we manage that. We regulate that pretty heavily. And I wonder if that's part of the discussion because that kind of takes the pressure off if we can generate good fish populations and good fish production using those techniques. And if we do that, does that limit the mercury that people talk about in the fish? I don't know, because I'm not a fisher person, because if doing aquaculture where you're growing fish in an environment, does that limit the mercury in the fish? Well, I don't think it makes a difference one way or the other. That's an interesting question though. I know mercury compounds over time, but if you're producing more fish as opposed to relying on larger fish, I suppose that's less mercury because it's an exponential increase over years. Yeah, but it has to come from somewhere though. Anyway, we're about out of time. I wanted to ask you for final thoughts. There's Camera One. They're all out there. 1.3 million people watching you at least. So, Connyella, what would you say to them? Is it your message today? Oh, yeah. So, the state of our marine ecosystems in Hawaii is a dire that we need to act now, but it's not without hope. I think if we implement some marine protected areas, not shutting down fishing, but actually creating more fish in certain areas by smart regulation, if we move the recreational fishing permits, we can educate one another about not taking too much. You don't need 200 coli for every graduation party and taking care of invasive species like roi, choosing the right types of sunscreen, and doing what we can to reduce carbon emissions. I think that's the number one. Those are the actions we can take as individuals. If you see bills come up, lobby forum at the state capitol, and when you're going to the ballot, when you're going to elect someone, on the federal level, don't just think about the style and whether or not you have that personal connection. I know it matters, but is this person going to be willing to fight for the environment and our marine ecosystems and our overall well-being despite what lobby is and big money powers on the other side? So, I think that's what we really need is people that are going to not just bring back the Paris agreement and push for 100% renewable energy nationwide, but who's really going to stick it to the people, really take on the forces on the other side, be it Bayer, Monsanto, or anyone else. Yeah, very thoughtful, actually. Thank you, Kaniyia. Great to talk with you. You're up and coming for sure. It's really a pleasure to see this young generation like this. It gives us hope. I love it. Thank you for coming this afternoon. Thanks for this opportunity. You will come back and visit with us again as the session goes on. Anytime. Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you, Marcia. You are indeed the Handmaiden. Thank you so much.