 Good afternoon and welcome. I am so pleased to be here with Jennifer Ealy, who is my friend and I've known you for so long And we were just discussing that you were at the Winniski Valley Park District for 30 years You've been retired for 10 and I can't remember where we met But definitely you were involved with Winniski Valley Park District And you are a biologist and a natural resource planner And so I just want to start with how you became interested in being a biologist Did that start in college? At first I thought, wow, I want to be a chemist. It's such a puzzle And then I realized, my gosh, if I'm a chemist I'm probably living in a larger town And I want to live where I can find forests to walk in And did you live in Vermont at the time or how did you get to Vermont? My parents, we lived overseas for seven years They found their retirement home in Rupert, Vermont And there was no turning back at that point. It was like, this is a good state Did you just fall in love with Vermont? Did you have that experience that people do when they come? And it's kind of the angels and the lights and the sun What happened to me? Oh, in Rupert, I really like the tone of the people And when I would go up to Burlington, when I went up to Burlington to school I liked how people walked a lot and just thought of themselves as good environmentalists too Even way back then Yeah, and then how did you evolve into natural resource planning? Was that another degree that you got? That was a master's degree that I got while I was still working with the park district And it just seemed like, well, I had two wonderful women teach me lessons about how to read the landscape And so the natural resource planner seemed like a good segue after that You're a much better planner if you know what you're planning, if you know it well Tell me about those women Well, one of them is Susan Morris, she's still very much working She's the founder and science director and lead educator of Keeping Track And she has an excellent website, by the way, Keeping Track does She has trained thousands of volunteers in 12 states and four Canadian provinces Participants in Sue's wildlife monitoring program are taught how to spot wildlife signs Including footprints and gait as well as evidence of behaviors particular to a species And that's the classes I took centered on that Her outdoor classes helped me learn how to read the landscape in terms of Where wildlife preferred to live and take cover and raise their young And then the second person that inspired me was Alicia Daniel She also is still working, she's the founder of the Vermont Master Naturalist Program Like Master Gardener, but Master Naturalist Bingo How amazing, I never knew And she's a master at it, I'll tell you She's taught just countless numbers of UVM students A lost art, you know, reading the landscape A lot of people aren't doing that as well, the natural landscape So UVM to read Vermont's landscape She reaches out to nature lovers in 18 towns across Vermont To help them build community, deepen their knowledge And plug into local conservation efforts As you're saying this, it just seems so big The subject of the natural landscape, protecting the natural landscape And creating institutions that preserve what we love so much about Vermont And what's so necessary for the world to have So just a little bit about the history of the Wineski Valley Park District How did that get started? And were you the starter of it? No Just before you It existed before me And somebody up at UVM, Henry Farmer Was just promoting the idea of regional land protection Because the animals don't know when they're wandering from one town to another And he was instrumental in lighting the fire under that idea Initially, there were five towns that said we're signing up to be part of this district It's a district kind of like a school district, it's public and also regional And then two more towns joined within several years Because they could see they were going to get a good deal And what kind of deal, what's the deal for the municipalities that are part of the district And just really, what's the mission of the Wineski Valley Park District? Well, our mission, its mission is It will always be your mission Yes, alright, I'm going to slip up there then, okay Was to find parcels, land enough so that you could have people peacefully co-exist with wildlife You got to have large, large parcel So, what I was doing early on, they had a director who didn't stay very long And then there was another director who was hired, who was a man And within six months of me, he hired me And he said, I want you to be my secretary And I said, well, if you can call me an administrative assistant, I'll do it So, I'm going on a tangent No, this is really interesting actually So, he was the director and I was the administrative assistant And within six months of me taking minutes at the board meetings and everything Without any announcement, they switched our roles So I was the director and the fellow was the administrative assistant But they didn't switch our salary levels Which at that point I thought, that's fine, I'm at the top Things are going to get better, and they did So, at that time, it was really still a young organization Yes And had certain sets of parcels I mean, did the towns come to the table and say, I'm putting this parcel in Or did you have a master plan and say, here's the parcels we're after How did this acquisition of parts of land to protect become part of the district? Well, we focused on parcels we already had There were like five, maybe five parcels, maybe three And they were big enough to support people and wildlife So that became a priority, adding to them a budding properties to make them bigger And were they around the Wineski River? Was that part of the idea? Yeah, at first it was all, it's got to be in the valley, Wineski River Valley But they leaped away from that Like Colchester Pond also is connected to Indyberg Reservoir, which drains a different way So talk about those acquisitions under your leadership that were so important Like Colchester Pond, how did the district acquire that? Oh, it was so cool Steve Libby, who later worked at the Vermont River Conservancy Introduced me to Colchester Pond, I didn't know it existed And he introduced me to it by taking me to Indyberg Reservoir And we walked through the woods to Colchester Pond And he was saying, you know, your job is like the opposite of a developer Instead of chopping things up, you're putting pieces back together And Colchester Pond is a great place for you to do that And I just was sold on the idea And who owned Colchester Pond? It was the Colchester Fire District Number 3 They thought it would be a potential drinking water source for the town of Colchester But that became obsolete because they found another better thing And so what did they do? Did they gift it to the district or sell it? Well, they said, we want to give this to you And it also included 25 feet around it, a little buffer And I kitted with them, I said, you just want to be able to fish at the pond, right? And they went, oh, yeah So that flew along And then once we had the pond, we could start getting land Around? Around it And hopefully the whole water shed Talk more about some of those other acquisitions under your tenure I think my favorite one was with this older couple And Doug and Thelma Wright They invited me to their farmhouse and just said We want to donate 39 acres of our land And it was with the water shed It was shoreline right up to the split on the water shed And we talked, and I'll just never forget, sitting in their kitchen Where they were saying, when they were much younger They had a really simple footpath that they would walk to the pond from their house And they just wanted to make sure that the wood stayed intact And the land was never developed Yeah And they were so much in love That was the thing, they were agreeing on everything in a very sweet way So would you say that most of the contributions to the park district Were given out of this spirit of love for the community? Or were there kind of different motivations that people had? Well, Green Mountain Power, I think it's Green Mountain Power had salmon hole And they just felt like it wasn't being used, it was a really pretty place There was barely a trail down to the river But there were beautiful views, if somebody was managing it, it could become a park So I didn't have to get a hold of them, they got a hold of me And so that's sort of the next question, which is Once somebody gives you a parcel of land, you have to maintain it And make it work for humans and animals, right? From what you said So how much does it cost, is that an expensive undertaking? And then who pays for it? Do the towns pay for it? How does the economics, what do you do for management? And how do you support it in that district? We would minimally manage, minimally develop it So the trails were put in very particular places that would leave If people stayed on the trail, they wouldn't be infringing on them What we considered to be the best wildlife habitat And we had simple foot paths, but they were the path of least resistance And people stayed on them pretty fricking well And what was the other part of your question? Oh, the towns! Yeah, how do you pay for it? Well, we were very good at getting grants And they invariably required a local share, the Lander Warner Conservation Fund Vermont Housing and Conservation Fund And that's where some of the people would sell it to us at a bargain price So the difference was what could be called the local share And it just, the towns, when you have seven towns Usually there's one that's more resistant to paying And then others just are delighted to pay But everybody came through over all those years Yeah So, talking about reading the landscape When you look at Chittenden County now Compared to 40 years ago when you started the district The landscape has changed so much What are you thinking when you say that? Well, really it's a question for you No, I mean, I'm having to answer it But I really should have phrased it Like how do you see the landscape change? I mean, I see so much of South Burlington built on I see the whole Tap Corner area We thought Pyramid Mall was going to be some gigantic thing And I don't think anyone imagined that those parcels Were going to get used in that way And now it's... It's encouraged sprawl It's totally encouraged sprawl in a way that I'm not sure... I wasn't involved in the planning I just observed it But Chittenden County is quite large It's not just those two places And so I wonder what you see And what do you think the state of the natural habitat Of Chittenden County is today? I think it's pretty amazing how diverse it has stayed And one of the reasons for that Is that we have a topographic feature That is very good for wildlife corridor routes And that is ravines So we have these steep ravines That could even be just 50 feet away The lip of the ravine, it's deep And people could be walking along On a path next door Right near it And we've got a lot of ravines So I think that has saved a lot of the wildlife From being just gone from this area Burlington has some of the best diversity And it's partly because it got settled Because it was so gorgeous But with all this many more people It still has diversity And a lot of it has to do with the ravines For example, can you say where some of them are? They don't usually have names But what neighborhoods? For funders, we can name ravines after them That's a great idea So where would I look for a ravine If I was walking along somewhere? When you're driving along the southern road You can see ravines that go under the road And out the other side And they're steep And nobody, there are no trails in it They're not good for walking And so the animals travel those paths In between one natural area and another Yeah, and to find mates Yeah And then what about development? Have we developed new housing With the natural world in mind, in your opinion? Well, I think that's what one of the challenges is Until you shine a light on important topographic features And stuff like that People aren't even inclined to think about it It's just nature out there Let's make it prettier Yeah And so there have been some places Where I've been very sad to see that The cliffs that are in between Williston and South Burlington Were dynamited And those were bobcat caves facing south It was a really wonderful bobcat place And it's gone So those things do happen Do you think the towns and the cities Are doing a good job overall In their management of natural areas? Oh, I think so A lot is through their conservation commissions And that's an advisory form of local government Where people are saying, hey, we gotta save this And then people like Sue Morris and Alicia Daniel Also get people thinking about how they can affect change So that some of the important features are saved And do you think that beyond the district And the conservation commissions That the planning commission decisions Decisions to place development Are being made in a mindful way to the natural world? Well, they'd be a lot better at it If the agency of natural resources Put it on their atlas maps Where it was a feature in the legend Oh, ravines Ravines And then also when the animals Get to the end of the ravine And are gonna cross a road We need signs to warn the motorists Or underpasses Or underpasses If it can be big enough Is that underpass on Route 7 In Sherlot, that's Sherlot You know, there's the big walk The Sherlot walk See, I haven't traveled to Sherlot since COVID started Oh my goodness, so there's a walk I'm going there All the way to Green Bush Road Wow And it's the town trail And it goes under Route 7 Very nice, what's the diameter of It's a tunnel, it's not a car tunnel under Route 7 It's a person-byte-sized tunnel under Route 7 Even better, I mean, yeah The wildlife will go through at night If there's a lot of people during the day Yeah, and it's not heavily trafficked It goes through that Sherlot co-housing Out to Green Bush Road And the whole idea is it's supposed to go All the way, maybe to the Rockefeller property You know that property that's behind the Sherlot store It's supposed to go all... Anyway, it's supposed to But it is a pretty remarkable walk And I can see how the value of an underpass Would be important in that situation Yeah You've got Route 7 And that's a high-speed road Yeah, there's a lot of smashed animals on that road Yeah Where you live in the New North End There's some beautiful properties That we don't want to tell everybody about But we're going to talk about Which is the diocese property Rockpoint Rockpoint, that's it Yep, and then the arms property Which is kind of a new acquisition Arms forest Yeah Kind of Is it? I don't know how long I remember talking to Ann Arms ages ago Okay And she... It hadn't happened yet But I'm not sure So that's got added on to Rockpoint Is that next to Rockpoint? It's across the bike path On the other side Yeah And tell us about those places And why you love them Well, then the other one near my home Just to throw in a third one is Ethan Allen Park I walked in it today And it's owned by the city And managed very well And it has so many rare plants You just think people would have trod on them And they'd be gone But the rocky terrain Really helps preserve them And is that where the homestead is? Or on the other... That's on the other side of the belt line Got it Yeah With the tower And then there's a lookout as well That's a pretty park Oh, and it has... In the spring, I love looking at the ephemeral Wildflowers Before the leaves come out on the trees They're just dazzling Well, also in the south end At Queen City Park Yes That's there Those flowers are remarkable Oh, yeah, I go there Incredible Where they blanket large areas too Yeah Just beautiful That's a wonderful park I found it really amazing My neighbor, Mary Gady, is a naturalist Like you, Hiker, knows everything And a geographer And so she takes me there to Queen City Park And she points things out Because I wouldn't know what... Now I know better what to look for But the first time I had no idea what I was looking for And she had the book And she was telling me what they were And it was a revelation That whole... What you were talking about It was such a powerful idea Of reading the landscape Yeah And learning how to read nature There's a great book How to Read Nature And the guy also wrote How to Read Water And it's... It's fascinating Because we're not raised To see the world in that way No And the other thing That is so amazing When you're reading the landscape At least for me It resets my brain And I've talked to people So many people about that Just saying resets my brain Does it do it to you? And they right away They know what resets your brain means Because they experience it Well, it calms your nervous system Yeah Let's start there I mean, just start there And it stops the little voice in the head Because you're looking at so many things And the chaos is nice There's an order to the chaos of nature One of the things you mentioned Was about dog walking In natural areas Could you just say A little bit more about that Because I go to the natural areas And my dog is not on a leash And now I need to know Why it should be on a leash Okay, well How to start with this I learned a lesson from my dog Ava years ago We would walk I'd always have her on a leash Because it was the rules And at the park district Of course I've got to follow My own rules And we would stay on Stay on trail and be leashed And one day When we were on a part of the trail That we were familiar with She stopped, sat down And just put her nose in the air And so I stopped And I watched her To see I was just so puzzled Usually she'd be ahead of me And pulling me along But she wanted to stop So I watched her for a while And then she started to just quiver And my first reaction was She's scared of something And then I went, no, of course not It wouldn't be that, not here And that's when I realized She was drinking in the aroma Probably of wildlife And when I looked around I could see There was a cliff above us And wildlife could be up there And out of sight You know, five deer And then down in the marshy area Near us All the reeds were so dense Wildlife could be there So my challenge to you Is to try walking with your dog On a leash And not letting them And staying on trail And going slower And slower and slower And see if she picks a place to stop And is it damaging for the forest To have a dog trampling around? No It's more that it will spook the wildlife Wildlife, their brains are so hardwired They have very little options Beyond fight and flight If they're upset And then the other thing is They crave predictability Because then they can Their hardwired brains Be, you know, shrug stuff off But when you have unpredictable species Such as us And dogs And dogs Yeah It's just they'll flee Yeah So in the years that you ran The park district And the ten years that you have not But have been a community activist What kind of lessons have you learned To pass on to people about That you've gleaned from the work That you've done And the life that you've lived? Whoa That's a big one That's a big one I think a lot of it is just Standing in the pause of the Or the hoops of the wildlife Just realizing You gotta stay on a trail Because we will start losing Different mammals And when you look at how useful The fox is, for instance It preys on the mice that tend To be the carriers of Lyme disease And they're just in fox And other small mammals Like bobcat They get rid of the nuisance species Like skunk And if their populations go down Our lives are not as easy So just What lessons did I learn To focus on the wildlife Not so much on plants But the wildlife Because people can get endeared Feel endearing about other mammals Jennifer, tell us about this Stay off the moss campaign That you are waging in our community Well, if it's okay, I'm going to Read it right here It's one of my hopes for the future It's a current project of mine I started this project at Arms Forest In the new north end in Burlington During the early days of COVID When suddenly there were so many More people in the woods And my target audience Was mountain bikers People about the age of my son and younger My goal was to ask them To stay off the moss And here's how I got them to stop And talk to me When I'd see a mountain biker Come in my way, I would say Can I ask you a question And they would invariably stop These polite young, mostly men And well, there was one That didn't stop, but he sped by And turned around and said, thank you But otherwise everybody stopped No exaggeration And the question I then would pose To them is which plant do you think May be the most important In keeping Arms Forest Biologically diverse and resilient And almost invariably They would look up at the tops of the trees And I would say Try looking down And some of them would guess At that point it was moss I think they were just imagining it As a sponge, really And that's when I'd ask them To take on the challenge Of to stay off the moss That it required more skills mountain biking But would they do this please And so my hope for the future Is that existing Mountain bike clubs Will start to spread the word On that idea of stay off the moss And why is it important? It's because Vermont's having more droughts And moss can be critical It holds a lot of water And releases it during droughts And I saw that at Arms Forest Other places were drying up Arms Forest was robust And the thing that was neatest about it Is I'd come on a hot summer day And within six feet Of entering the park The temperatures were cool Because of that moss Amazing Keep off the moss Oh and there was one last memory I'm out there and two mountain bikers Didn't stop But I'd already talked to them I didn't realize that I had And they went, we're off the moss Both of them It was so good Now that's good, anything else That you want to pass on? How about your hopes for the future? Well my hopes for the future Top and center is the idea Of ravines getting noticed more And put on that Agency of Natural Resources Atlas That in Act 250 When there's a subdivision We ask the developer About setting aside a portion of a ravine And by doing that They can get a waiver on some of their impact fees And headwaters are really important too Because at high elevations they branch off So we really have to have a map To kind of look at where it makes sense To have these interconnectedness And then to put cameras down in the ravines To see which species are down there And are these things that are happening Or are these things that could... Not in a comprehensive way Got it But they're finding like the cameras I think it's UVM maybe That came out of that Where they're very helpful Yeah They're a good tool And UVM has so much land Yes That is still natural That buffers the highways And the condos Yeah There's some amazing parcels And Centennial Woods is now Having more housing Pushed against it Yeah And it's just like, no That's a lovely property full of diversity Well, we'll have to go in the spring I'm going to go with you You're going to show me flowers Well, I got to confess I don't know the names of all plants But I know who... You'll see them Well, I know who hangs out with who Well, there you go Yeah And you actually have an eye for them Which is good because That's how we learn And then I have a final question Which is for those of us So many of us live in Vermont Because we love this place How can people get involved In the conservation and preservation I think a first good step Is to sit at one of their Local Conservation Commission meetings And just see what they're up to And see whether they want to work with them On their existing projects Or propose other projects to them But that seems to be working very well And then to take a class from Alicia or Sue It's empowering And you can communicate better About what... Take people on trips in the woods And just promote them So keeping track is Sue's project, right? Yes And then Alicia's... Sue Morris Sue Morris And then Alicia's is... The Vermont Master Naturalist Program There you go That would be good We'll put that up Yeah, and their classes are Not exactly the same There's overlap But the methodology is different So it's very cool And looking back to your First job out of college You know, you were a biologist Not yet even a natural resources planner Did you have any sort of Vision for yourself that you've realized Or have you just kind of Put one foot in front of the other Like looking back at that person How do you see her And her youth And her 20s And her idealism And how would you describe her And you? My parents If they said something four times You knew it was a big deal And they guided us on How to figure out if it was a good job And one of the criteria Of five criteria was Make sure that you're doing something Important that's helpful So when I first thought about that I thought, I gotta help human babies They're the most helpless But then I realized It was wildlife I should really work on that They're the lowest in the chain Yeah Or so we think Or so we think Yes, yes Jennifer Ealy, thank you so much For joining us and for talking with us Biologist, natural resource planner Activist, community member And delight, thank you so much Retired And retired Oh, it's so good to see you Thanks for watching