 Greetings. We'll give folks a few more minutes to be able to come on in. Good morning. Just holding for like a few more folks to be able to join. That is all. All right, with Cornelia coming in that gives me quorum. So. Hooray. I'll go ahead and kick us off because we've got a lot to do today. Welcome to your to see meeting for March 15, 2022. We have some anti stress policy applies here. You have made it to the meeting. Well done. Or you're watching it on the recording to see members track different to see it and tracker and the public doc. And here we go. We have our annual reviews. This is the first time we've done this in an open meeting. So bear with us. There might be some questions around how we all do things. There's some pieces in the annual review process about how three particular to see members need to be able to vote for it. I think we deal with that at the end, unless dims I see you nodding and being able to have like other other opinions, but I know, just go for it. Okay, no, that's basically like that. There's some procedural things that I know that we need to work out so I will get us started in here. What we've done as far as like to see kind of like reviewing all of these animal reviews is each individual project that came in for this morning, because we were doing this last week and a little bit today has a TOC kind of sponsor attached to them that they've gone through and actually reviewed so as we move towards each of them, I will pass towards that particular member if I see them here if they're not, I'll take it. So with that, I'm going to pass us to Kuma and Emily is one big running with Kuma on this one. Hello, everyone. So thank you so much for submitting your annual review we've gone through and taken a peek at it and also checked some status information about the project looks like you all have been making some excellent work on getting adopters of the project. I wanted to understand a little bit more of your perspective on some of that adoption, do you see any challenges, or any opportunities over the next year, if Kuma is on the call and can answer. I'm not currently seeing anyone from Kuma on the call. There's a lot of folks running around in here so this is one of the things we can kind of like ask afterwards. Okay. I guess we can ask it afterwards so looks like widespread adoption. They had some key call outs for things that they wanted to get done before incubation so in addition to those, based off of review of the repository there looks like there could be some more work that could be done to better prepare the project for all of the requirements that come with incubation and all of the additional exposure and opportunity with that. So, I'd be happy to follow up with Kuma offline after this to discuss what some of those key items are that I think would be beneficial for the project to be able to move forward. And it looks like they had some outstanding requests of CNCF to be able to assist the project and their readiness for incubation. Is there anything else that I missed Amy? I had a question about one thing on the slide which was, we don't do any sort of tracking of, you know, where things are installed or used right now. So I don't know if there is precedence in our community to be able to do that. There is. So we do have the ability to be able to go through a telemetry policy and kind of walk this through legal and all of that so if projects want that, the best example that I have for you right now is, I think it's a spinnaker project. Don't quote me on that directly because I haven't looked at this in a bit but we do have a policy and projects can go through this. Okay, perfect. Yeah, let's go over and chat if you're curious about this and you wanted to be able to like, you know, figure this one out. Yeah, it'll be interesting to have something for us, which will work based off what is in the LF one I guess. Thank you. Last call for anyone from Kuma. If you have any on the call. Emily, did you already leave some of these questions in their PR? Yeah, I'm going to be following up probably with the community directly instead of on the PR because some of them are outside of the annual review comments and the discussion that's there. But I wanted to follow up with Amy just to make sure that I've hit all the buttons that I need to. This is intended to be a lightweight just review intended to be like hey project, how can we help with one note if a project asked for marketing help directly I didn't put it in the slides because that's not something we can offer for sandbox projects. I fully understand where the request is coming from and there's it's just not available. I think by this time, all of them should have access to service desk at least right. Oh yeah everybody's got access to service desk they can come by and ask us questions or any of that. Anything that they're really like, like super fired up about. I'm going to ask them to put in the service desk so I can track it and get it to the appropriate team member. Perfect. Thank you. Yeah. No worries. All right. Okay, open cruise. I cannot remember who had open cruise. I know it's one of you. Harry, I know you're on the call. Or you were. Hello, come on in Harry. Yeah, so I still will summarize on the open cruise project. This project in general it growing fast in terms of the open source community. As we can see it's in its adoption that they have the option documentation, which has very diverse adopters. I mean, companies from both China US Europe, they're trying to they have adopted this project in production which is very good side, including several of the mainstream companies like lived LinkedIn. We're using open cruise to solve the problems like how to deploy applications in web scale. This is also the good side. And when we look at the implementations of details open cruise, I will say, it is on the right track by position by positioning itself as a tool set to help. So it is a tool set or large size companies to deploy to use Kubernetes at large scale by providing features like in place upgrade to manage study cards at massive scale. There are many features which cannot be found in option Kubernetes, but still needed by many many companies in their own user scenarios that's why I feel it's complimentary to the existing community instead of saying a fork or I know people are asking why don't you send it back to option because the option had its own goal had its own feature state. And those cases which has been headed by open cruise, mainly target on massive scale enterprise scale, you know, we should have some tools that will help that. I feel that open cruise also on that track on the right track in the in terms of that part. And the last is the open cruise containers also asking for a move to next move to next stage, which I personally feel they are almost ready for that. So I would like to see that improve the contributes contributor diverse and to the further stage. Note that today they already have a diverse mentorship in a project. I think they are also on the right direction in this part. Yeah, this is a men's summary from my side. Thank you, Harry. Any other comments from the group anything else that we wanted to be quick. I'm not actually seeing any of the open cruise folks online. So I'll hold for a moment for them. I don't know which tag go but cruise is under. It should be a tag app delivery. Okay, thank you. But also be the tag runtime so kind of a close to two different aspects. Right. Thank you for that review. Any other questions. I will look forward to seeing their incubation request then it sounds like that's for their heading. Passing to Kyverno, and you're up. Yes. Hi. So Q and I has been doing well. You know, so Q and no, have, you know, they were looking at different statistics and stargazers issue creators commitors. Everything is going up. They have a whole bunch of commitors from different sites. So that's a good sign. I believe they also asked us to they started the process for incubation, which is really good. In general, they have been trying to do the right thing across. But what they do, I did have a few questions in the PR itself and Jim from the project. You know, give me the details like I was asking where are the design docs. You know, what is a plan for, you know, the salsa levels that they were talking about for the security chain. The other one that I had a question about was zoo. I think they're lying a little bit on things like zoom. They haven't switched over to a community thing yet they are still using the one from the company that Jim represents. So I think they think we fixed that but I appreciate bringing it up. I'll check in on that one. Thank you. This was five days ago that he said that they haven't switched over yet. Maybe we have already minted one but they just haven't updated the calendar. It could be just that. The one question that you know they were facing about was like how do they, you know, they are up against for example, OPA folks right like OPA has already established and it's using CKS and things like that. So I'm going to figure out like how do we go to the point where we are listed alongside of OPA in the various things that CNC has or the documentation that we have in different repositories and things like that. And that's a fair question and you know I was going to probably point out like, hey, let's get you through incubation and then as part of incubation will work on these things will identify a set of things to do and go around, you know, getting help from other people to go do that. So I do not have any concerns at this moment and I'm looking forward to reviewing the, you know, incubation DD and other materials for Q and O. Thank you. Any questions anyone. Anybody from the project here and mute. Yeah, go ahead. Anybody from the project here. It's shooting down here. I'm from Kyrona community. I actually my first time joined this meeting because I saw the message that you said it's an open meeting so welcome everybody to join so that's why I'm here and I believe Jim already like answered most of your questions in that any review and we're also working on the DD doc for the incubation application and you know happy to any other like food the questions offline, but regarding that zoom link we had like problem posting it or like live stream it on the YouTube so any reference or the resources that I can refer to. Yes. I know that I've got an open loop with the project on this one. I will wake that one up and give you the resources for how to be able to do all of that. So, that sounds good. Yeah, totally fair. Let me go do that now. So, otherwise forget. Okay. Any questions for us that you might not have added in the PR shooting. Not at the moment. I'll post if I have any further questions afterwards. But thank you so far. Yeah. Amy, we are ready to go to the next. Thank you. All right. Nope, that's perfect. So thank you and thank you to project for showing up. Hey, I wasn't sure if it was going to work and it did. Yeah. Nope, that is great. I'm cert manager kicking on through here. I'll take Ricardo. Thank you. Okay, thanks. So, I went through the review of the project. The first item about adoption, it's quite clear that the adoption is very good to this project. The slide channel has, I think over 6000 members and quite active. And the same is true for the help. I would also highlight there. There was an effort from the project to move away from the jet stack organization github and similar things. There was one item left, I think, which is a reference to just stack on the project website. Maybe we can, we can check that one as well. So for the other items here in this slide, the incubation process has actually already started so I think the due diligence and the suggested security audit will help the project a lot. So a couple of items that I went through and I see Joachim is here so maybe he can comment as well but one thing that seems to have been done is improving diversity in maintainers but it's still like maybe not where the project would like to be. So maybe my question would be, is there something we can help in that process. So some things are, even if there's a huge adoption the users page in the GitHub doesn't really reflect this so maybe it could be updated. And I think the roadmap as well could get a quick update. Also in the annual review that they would like assistance from the CNCF regarding their transition to use CNCF based infrastructure, and also managing of project life cycle and members joining and leaving the project and getting credentials. So I guess the CNCF service desk is the best place to handle those. So probably that's, that's what I think should be pointed to. I think that's all I have maybe Joachim do you have any comments or anyone else. Thank you Ricardo. So to address some of the points you mentioned on contributor diversity for example it's something that we discussed and we're working on lowering the threshold for contributions to make it easier for for more people to open PRs and work with Cirque Manager. We've also discussed how to add more information to our list of users so we're going to be a bit more proactive in reaching out and asking people to contribute specifically to that list of users of the software. Awesome. Yeah, I saw that the number of contributions is actually quite high for like punctual contributions maybe I don't know how to motivate people to become more active maintainers of this part of the project and engage a bit more. Not an easy thing. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I guess the challenges a certain manager works, you know, very well so people don't need to feel the need that they have to do more I guess. But they don't see all the things you know that could be done I guess they'll just see what what doesn't work for them and have like a small patch for just that right. Exactly that's the kind of threshold we want to lower so that when questions come in we can encourage them to open a PR themselves so we want to make sure that threshold is very low to make it super easy to start contributing. Overall, there's a lot of process progress. Really nice to see. And Ricardo hold that thought because I will ask you how you're doing on the due diligence for this particular project the end. So we had the kickoff meeting last week, and we already have like the template documents and the first steps aligned. So we'll keep the regular meetings to move things forward. No that's perfect. This is exactly what we would want to see for projects that are looking to be able to move to incubation like please do your annual review which shouldn't be that hard. I would actually give you a good guideline about whether or not you're ready to be able to go for incubation so thank you project. Anything else. All right schema hero. And this one is Justin Cormack. Yeah. So I think that the, you know, the most obvious thing looking at this project is that it's got little visible adoption. They have an adopter's file that only has replicated originally donated the project and have all the maintainers still in the adopter's file and there's not a lot of community activity and slack or issues or peers. So the project really needs to work on, you know, working out why people are adopting it and helping them, you know, helping people get on board. I think some of it is because people haven't heard of the project maybe but it's also I think partly because people probably already have homegrown solutions for this problem that they already have. And certainly I was asking around internally at Docker and that was the case with us and I kind of pointed to the Moschima era and said, like, here's a tool you can look at instead of something homegrown but I think that that's probably what the competition is to some extent. There's not been, I think that the roadmap's not been updated much since the project came into the sandbox and it couldn't use some work as well. But I feel that adoption is the main thing that this project needs to focus on really over the next few months and just try and, you know, maybe just spend more time talking to users about what the barriers to adoption are and, you know, really treating it as a, you know, as a time to spend, you know, spend time talking to users and work out if you're solving the right problems, why people aren't adopting and what kind of plan to fix that. Absolutely, Cornelia, I totally agree that the declarative scheme is a fabulous idea. So, you know, we have to kind of see why is this why is this not getting any traction and how can we help and how can the, you know, how can the project engage more with users and get them to understand what a fabulous idea this is. Is anyone here from Schema Hero who'd like to speak? Hi, Justin, I'm here. I definitely hear what you're saying and completely agree with both points. One that we need to really work on adoption we have a few folks that we're trying to get to list as in the adopters file like they're early it's still not a massive number, but that is our primary focus and I think like more than adding new functionality in like that is has to be our focus right And I think that's, yeah, like we call that out I think also in like both in adopters and in like additional maintainers outside of the contributing organization here, it just has to be a thing that we work on right now. Yeah, I think that, yeah, let's let's spend some time talking about it and working on working on strategy for for Because I'd like, you know, love to see one day to help you. Yeah, I mean I think you kind of the challenge that we have right now where the folks who do see it, you know, have started to adopt it and they like it it's slow traction for us right now. But, you know, nobody's heard of it yet, even on this call, you know, we're seeing comments that people are seeing it for the first time so you know it's like that's the challenge and I understand that as a sandbox project is very limited, you know, marketing help that we're going to be able to get from the CNCF directly so we, you know, we understand that that's the big challenge that we have a history now. I asked on the chat, what's the closest alternative to schema hero? Is there one in CNCF or elsewhere? I do think that the competition is something you built yourself internally, I mean, certainly, certainly when I asked internally, that's, you know, we've built we built something that we've been using in this kind of a kind of works ish, you know, and I think that's, that's probably. I don't know, Mark, do you know anything that's directly. There's, there's like tools like liquid base as an example they have a commercial and an open source offering, you know, and we've actually spent some time talking to the team at liquid base on how we can collaborate with existing tools that are out there to kind of bridge that gap for people who have already adopted tools. Yeah, fly away there's also, you know, some tooling like, you know, rails or Django have built in orms which handle it so like that makes schema hero not really applicable to projects like that and then yeah like, you know, we came from a background where we were writing go code and we like to exactly with Justin saying homegrown solutions built on top of goose and other open source repos that handle schema migrations but not like out of the box project and certainly the reason that we decided to put it in the CNCF really was because there was nothing else in the cloud native landscape as a purely open source open governance model that handles this problem very specifically. So if I like had just asked a question if it's complimentary or replacement to liquid base. You know, I think it's definitely complimentary, it could be a replacement for some specific use cases, but liquid base does more than schema hero does today. And so we think that there's like a potential, you know, solution where it's complimentary where it handles schema migrations and doesn't handle data migrations, getting really into the weeds and the project actually does but there is, it's not an attempt to like, replace a bunch of other tools that are out there like schema hero really is a very specific targeted like Kubernetes operator for deploying schema migrations. Well hopefully we picked up some adopters from this call. I love that. I guess the other question I have is like where in companies is cloud native journey, would they like look for, you know something, you know that schema is hero provides. Is it like early in the order, you know, like, is it early, is it late. So, where we've seen early adoption is like when folks start really adopting get ops as a deployment model where their CI process is like they're using flux or our go or some other get ops tool to do it and they don't want an out of band schema migration they want to like, like tightly couple those schema migrations in with the application deployment it doesn't have to be late in the adoption. You know, once you have Kubernetes though it's, it's viable. So the follow up to that would be like, do we need to do something with those projects so that you know schema hero will come up in the conversation. When people are adopting the CACD frameworks and trying to migrate applications there. That's, that's a great suggestion we haven't talked about or thought about that yet like that's definitely a good idea. Okay, thank you. I have a question before we moved on. You had a note in here about being added into the certified Kubernetes was like security specialist piece. Talk to me more about that. I think that was intended to be something like this, the CKA exam not the CKS exam. And that's fine I was just like the describe for me the wish more directly. You know, if you know one of our instances like managing database migrations using control and in Kubernetes native tooling is. That's one area that we seem to hit a little bit of challenges with some folks where developers were managing database migrations and now if you have an SRE team or an ops team that's actually managing it because they're managing it in the cluster, you shift the task of that and the ops team or the SRE team needs to be able to understand schema migrations a little bit more so having a question or two or some kind of introduction to that topic exposes Kubernetes administrator more to managing schema migrations. And also honestly like there was a big part of it for like, you know, just visibility about the project. That's why I was like, I need more context I think. Okay, I will go ask like the team that does all of that like what their cycle for being able to update things looks like. So, thank you. Thank you. All right, I'm actually going to move us like technically we should have Provega coming up next, but I don't have that particular to see member on the call just yet. So I'm going to move us on to network service mesh and we'll come back as I say Aaron join. Okay, so I was the one that read through the network service mesh docs. And to be honest, it looks pretty good like there's a good amount of diversity in maintainers and contributors. There weren't really any asks from CNCF for the TOC the team said that they were pretty happy with the support they're getting the biggest kind of concern is that there are things that they will get an incubation that they would love to get now but I think that's a concern of almost any sandbox project. I think the most interesting conversation to have with network service meshes around adoption, and there were a few comments and adoption in the doc, and then I think Frederick is here and I think he's probably the best person talk about adoption I know that this conflicts with their weekly project meeting so I want to give him a chance to speak up since he skipped that to join us. Thank you. So, in terms of adoption to understand where we are. There's, there's a couple things that have to happen so it's not like you just suddenly say hey there's an end user wants to use it. They go and install it and then they move forward. So the adoption requires something that never service mesh itself controls. So, in other words, if you, if you want to have a data plan or something, look up to it. And then their service mesh would interact with that thing and then, and then from there the end user could then use that to coordinate multiple disparate systems, as if they were one thing, across vendors. And so, in terms of adoption, we've, we've been working with a few, with a few vendors. We have comments from both Cisco, I think Cisco is a comment on their Ericsson, and, and Intel within the, within the, within the review. Unfortunately, there's not much where I can say in there what's, what's in there is is the blessed approved versions. But I can say that there's, there's a lot of active work going on in order to provide additional, that additional vendor support. So, from the consumer side and I come from a consumer company. I'm at, at Anthem, and we're, we're looking at catching it on the other side and we want us to look at how do we install this on our systems in order to allow us to automate several tasks that right now require various people and tooling and so on, that in order to take tasks that often are required to do, and to shrink it down into weeks or possibly minutes worth of time once you get the initial, the initial approvals. So, so on the, on the end user side, I'm also expecting some of the work as the vendor start to start to come out of their, their business and start pushing into the public. I am expecting to see a lot more adoption in network service mesh over over time as, as those companies start to ramp up their, their delivery of their various things that they've been building. At least that's my expectation. Does that help answer the question in terms of like, like why we are where we are and where we live. It makes sense and I hope to add for a while yesterday because we had the, the TOC liaison network tag meeting yesterday as well so I think all of my questions are answered I don't know if anybody else, either from the TOC or anyone else on the call has questions or if we're good to move on. Yeah, I have one. Which industry vertical segment would like be a starting point like I see Ericsson here and I see a few companies in the telcospace is telco, you know, a starting point for people adopting NSM. I have one possible starting point but I mentioned that I came from a, from a consumer based CNC of consumer point of view, and so Anthem is healthcare. So we're, we're, I think in the fortune, top fortune, Fortune 25 and our healthcare company. So for, for us, having something in, it's not simply just like hey let's go target, let's go target telco. There's very, there's a very real use case around enterprise and automating various various systems within, within very enterprise type systems. Okay, thank you. Any other questions for network service mesh. All right, I'm going to move us back to Provega. Aaron passing to you. Hi, sorry. Hello. Hello, your mic works. Yay. Go ahead. So, Provega has actually had a really healthy adoption and contribution since they first presented to the tag for sandbox a while ago I mean they've had 76 different releases. They have had a very diverse set of contributors and customers adopting the technology. So what is Provega. I would say, you know, at a high level, it definitely is comparable to Kafka and pulsar, you know, it's, it's a distributed messaging service that works on streaming, I think it's pretty unique in terms of the different storage possibilities within the CNCF so I like that it offers a little bit different set of features that aren't typically available in our standard kind of storage solutions. And so they have a diverse set of use cases that is continuously growing on the CNCF website you can see, you know, kind of a comparison of the different features available between Kafka and pulsar and how it differentiates which I think is really important when we consider taking projects from sandbox to incubation that is one of the standards is how is this different and it's clearly articulated through that. Unfortunately, GitHub doesn't give you like a year long view of how many contributions commits and things are going so I think, you know, just triggering off the releases, I think we can conclude in the number of people who are contributing to it from a year ago that it is healthy. If there is a lot of interest and it's unique. And so, are there any questions I know I went through that rather quickly. The only project only thing that wasn't updated was not on the CNCF per Vega site but per Vega project site, the roadmap seems to be a little bit lagging behind so that would be one thing that I'd want to make sure is updated before we went further is to understand all the different things that they've put for different releases how does that fit into the roadmap into the current timeline. So we've been pretty accurate on the roadmap but but yeah I think we have the old version that shows some released. We'll get that updated real quickly. Great. Thank you Derek appreciate it but other than that here, I'm excited about the project I actually was in when it still was a sig when you all presented and then became a tag so personally familiar with the project and I think it's has great momentum. Great thanks it's good to hear your perspective on that there's several of us here too I don't know if any of the other steering committee members want to speak up. I just want to say because I did the original sandbox review for Prevega when I'm really pleased with the progress it's been making since it's joined the sandbox because I remember, you know, having those discussions with you and it was a very early, you know, from the adoption point of view is very early stage back then and I'm really pleased to see how it's come on in the sandbox. Yeah, I think our challenge is having qualified end users as adopters. So we have, you know, several vendors that have adopted or a lot of adoption is maybe early in the prototypal stages or, you know, we're seeing a lot of adoption in the flint community, especially in China. But we need to see people get to production and then be willing to publicly acknowledge their use of Prevega. And that's, you know, as we head towards incubation I think that's our roadblock right now. Anything else that we can hear from the project or just general questions. That was all I had any so. Okay. All right, thank you Prevega and thank you for dropping in. Move us back to Athens and that I believe is Matt Farina. Yes, no, I had to go find that mute button. I don't need myself. Hello. So, um, Athens deals with well authentication authorization stuff, and they aren't going for incubation anytime soon. So the project is mostly developed out of Yahoo and Yahoo Japan, which are two distinct legal entities if I understand it right. And it's mostly worked with Azure and AWS. The contributions come from these organizations. In fact, if I look at contributions for the last few months, there hasn't been any from any other outside organizations, but it is actively developed by them and being actively worked on and used by them. It's one of those areas they know they need to improve on and they just started collecting those who are actually using it. So they just started trying to collect that and get that information. There is somebody Vespa who's looking at adding GCP support to work with their system. And so there might be some expansion there coming, but there is active ongoing development around it. They're just not seeing a lot of community growth and those other things put into it right now. In fact, if you go to the website, it reads a lot like a product thing without a whole lot that says here's kind of how you get involved if you're going to go contribute or be involved in that community. I think that's the project with us today. We have them. I'd love to hear from you. Yes. Hi, this is Abhijit. So I'm one of the contributors of Athens. Great. Or the maintainer of Athens. Fantastic. So yes, as you had rightly pointed out adoption is something which we are going to concentrate on and so we have been working on a couple of features and Athens is in the security space for authentication and authorization so the primary use case for it is the service to service authentication. So all the use cases for MTLS within Yahoo is using Athens to do so and in addition to that Athens also provides authorization using OR2 standard based access tokens. So in a way, like just to give a little bit of context, it is similar to SPIR plus OPPA combination for like SPIR for the X519 based authentication as well as OPPA for doing the authorization based on policies. Thank you for the explanation. Is there anything else besides what we've got here that you can use from the CNCF staff or the TOC for the next year? No, I think as we have mentioned in the PR, we are going to go for the security review and hoping to get more eyes on it in terms of what project is and where we can improve and yes, I mean I understand it being a sandbox project doesn't have direct marketing support but we are going to see what we can do to get adoption going. Okay. That wraps up our kind of overall reviews today. Dimms, I'm going to pass to you a bit for like procedurally. Right. So we could do it in a couple of ways. One way is to check if any of us have any concerns about the projects that we've talked about right now. And if there are, so we can do like what on bulk saying, okay, all the projects that were reviewed today are good with a plus one, zero minus one, or if you want to split it into individual ones we can do that too. Which one would the TOC members prefer? Any suggestions there? I mean I think it's, we've done the bulk vote in the past. I mean I think if the bulk vote, if there's not a plus one on the bulk vote then we could always do them individually but if there's a plus one on the bulk vote then we can just go through and Okay. So let's call for a vote for a bulk approval on all the projects that we have reviewed today. Let's open and passes. All right. Thank you. That was painless. That was wonderful. We'll go through our projects applying to move levels now. Harry, come on in for Chuba or CubeFS. Yeah, so all the needed review and the due diligence work has to be finished. So the, the ChubaFS which is known as CubeFS today. So this project is generally ready to move to incubation. So we are still waiting for some minor feedbacks from TOC side. Everything's ready. I think this project we can actually ask for public comment for their due diligence talk. Yeah. All right, I will watch for a call for public comment. So, right. I'm allowed custodian. Yeah, so there was a lot of progress here in the due diligence and we will do a sync on where we are and then an update in one of the next public meetings. But it's moving pretty well right now. Should I should I do the others. Yes, on to Volcano. We've already talked about cert manager. So yay. Yeah. Elena is not with us today, but this is her last meeting as a TOC member. Much thanks to Elena and all the work that she's done here. Captain Pasta Cornelia. Yep. We, I have feedback back as I reported a few weeks ago, I had given them first round of feedback, and they have responded with that and I need to review. Great. Thank you for the progress there. Dave artifact hub. Thank you so much for having me. Oh yeah, always. We have made almost no progress here. I think we talked a little bit in December and January and our plan was to have some conversations with end users and adopters of artifact hub as we're still kind of debating the, like, how well it fits the model of projects conversation that we had before. And I think that conversation was happening with Matt before Matt was on the TOC. So Matt and I just need to get together and figure this out and get to some of the next steps. All right, hearing no objections to that. Pass to key cloak. A similar situation is Dave I think there were some reservations about key cloak initially in terms of diversity of contributors and end users and so I'll need to go through the same due diligence to make sure the things that were raised before on the TOC with previous sponsors are satisfied since I'm taking it over second hand so I am in process of doing that more provide an update as they come in. All right, thank you. We've heard from you a little bit. Oh, actually, you've got some helpful things from Derek. Yay. So, for Q&O, I haven't started, we haven't started yet. So, I'm going to talk to the project folks this week, hopefully, and get us going on a DD doc. Yeah, I'll repeat the same. We had the kitchen last week and yeah, we're moving forward as well. Okay, quickly for the applying for graduation, Argo, I know it's still out there, GRPC also still out there and Spiffy Spire, I know that you all have been working on being able to gather things together. Yeah, thank you. And Kormak, passing to you. Yeah, so Spiffy Spire, we had a kickoff meeting with Emily and we were to work on our plan, GRPC, I need to take off hold again because it was on hold because it wasn't going to happen before the elections, but I will get back to working on that. Okay. That covers us for our normal agenda in here. I have a question for the group. Did this kind of public review of like annual sandbox projects work? I think it forced us to prepare well, I guess, for sure. And I like the fact that we were able to get the project maintainers and have conversation with them here. Okay. Seeing big thumbs up all around. One request that I had in the middle of the meeting and then kind of switch towards was like, talk a little bit about what the project actually does, because even though all of us actually know what it is, that is not immediately apparent towards the community overall so I think in the future we will set up a way to be able to make sure that the project knows that this is happening more than just like a week in advance, and also directly inviting them again as well. Okay, project participation, good things. Other questions, pieces that we wanted to be able to go over. Right, seeing no one coming off mute and everybody being very happy and chat. Yeah, dams. Yeah, the only thing that I would say is like, you know, there's a lot of services available through the service test so, you know, go look at the things that are already provided and, you know, open up tickets and more than one person from each project knows or has access to the service just to get then the things that are available. You, yeah, let's start by using all the things that we know we can and then, you know, we can do more I guess. That's completely fair. We're always happy to help. All right, seeing no one else come off of mute to be able to say anything else I will send everyone back into your day. It's good to see all of you. Thank you. All right, be well everyone thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks this is great. Oh good okay. You did like it. All right, bye all