 Good afternoon and welcome to all of you who have joined us today for this third Thursday conversation. I'm Jeanine Bertie Johnson and I serve as alumni director as well as Director of Campus Ministries and Development and Admissions Associate. I'm very excited to be back in my office for the first time today in over a year, and very excited that all of you have joined us. Just a couple of housekeeping details before we get started, please note that the webinar is being recorded including our question time. If you have any technical concerns at any point, just send a chat message to the AMBS host. And if you have a comment or question for our speaker, we ask you to use the Q&A feature, and then I will go through those and ask certain questions from that group of questions. So that all of you can see who else has joined the webinar. Please use the chat function to give us your name, location and what years you were at AMBS, and make sure you send that to all panelists and attendees, not just panelists because otherwise everyone else won't see it. So we invite you to let each other know who's here. Turning now to the reason we're all here. Dr. Beverly Lap is in her third year as Vice President and Academic Dean at AMBS. She brings more than two decades of experience in academic affairs, teacher development, curricular design, and intercultural exchange to her work. Bev previously served on the music faculty at Goshen College for 23 years, where she chaired the music department, directed the core curriculum, and led four study service term semesters in China, Peru, and the Dominican Republic. Bev is an active church musician and has a deep interest in the relationship between music and theology. Bev will start by answering several questions that I have for her and then after that we'll have time for your questions and comments as well. Bev, thank you for joining us today, and I'd like you to begin by just telling us anything you would like us to know about yourself as an introduction. Thank you it's so good to be with all of you today. I would like to share a few photos with you to tell you a little bit more about myself, but we'll only do this for for part of our time so I will share my screen. Because I'd like to tell you where I grew up. I'm a child of Franconia. I grew up in Lansdale, Pennsylvania, and within Franconia Mennonite Conference, which is now part of mosaic conference. These were these this is a part of Pennsylvania that has rolling hills and curvy roads. And when I was in grade school, my family moved to the home on Allentown Road, which is the photo you see that John and Edith lap built and raised nine children and including my father Sam, my grandfather owned laps grocery on Main Street in Lansdale but had to eventually sell after he was chosen by lot to be minister at Plains Mennonite Church, and later bishop in the Franconia Mennonite Conference. My lap cousins and I like to muse about what might have happened if he had not been chosen by lot would we be grocery magnets now for example, if that moment had not turned out that way. And then the lap family growing up. Well, first I'll show a photo of my grandparents and their children. My father Sam is on the left there. And my memory growing up was that when the laps were together. And of the cousins slipped away when the conversation inevitably shifted to church politics. And I usually stayed to listen because I found that very interesting. My roots extend further west near to near Harrisburg where Ferris and Emma Longenacker ran a farm and butcher shop with the help of their seven children, including my mother Helen. My grandma Longenacker's kitchen was a place of warmth and comfort, and the farm property was a place of endless cousin adventures, exploring barn lofts, fishing ponds and the life cycle of animals. My mother is standing on the right in this photo. Both sets of grandparents were devout Mennonite Christians, it seemed to me growing up that the laps were stoic service oriented and pretty scholarly about their faith, while the Longenacker's were more evangelical and expressive in tone, and eager to talk about their personal relationship with Jesus. I've been profoundly blessed and shaped by both families. And as you can see from the photos, the conservative Mennonite dress my parents grew up in the Longenacker's actually considered the laps a little liberal, and we're only assured when my mom started dating a lap that her that my dad's father was a bishop that that made a key difference in their estimation. I'm not going to go into this detail about my story moving forward, but there were significant years for my family, serving with MCC in Jamaica here we are on Allentown Road back view of the house getting ready to leave for our MCC term Mennonite Central community term there I'm on the left. And here we are in Jamaica in Kingston, where we lived and my parents for country representatives for the Jamaica MCC unit. Those were formative years in so many ways. Including that I experienced and lived and was formed by a service view of Mennonite Anabaptist service and a framework that has has stayed with me in terms of serving and living alongside our siblings around the world. When we have the opportunity, and it was it was just a dynamic time to see my parents engage in in their work with the MCC team. Another significant part of this story is that this is where I became a pianist, I had been taking some lessons but I had a much more intense experience with a incredible teacher while we were living in Kingston. So moving forward, because of that the music program at Goshen College was a real draw when the time came for that. And the next few years have been a time of Goshen College as my base with graduate school here and there and here's the end of my formal education in New York City after getting my doctorate at Columbia. I had two daughters. So just wanted to share that that part of my journey and I think I will get to other parts with other questions so I'll stop at the photos for now. Thanks Bev. Can you tell us a story about a time when you experienced God in a powerful way. Yes, thank you. When we came home from Jamaica, we moved back to Lansdale and I went to eventually after middle school went to Christopher doc minute high school now doc Mennonite Academy. And in those years, we had a major cultural adjustment coming back to southeastern Pennsylvania. I can remember a particular moment where I experienced my emerging kind of best gift at the piano as a direct gift from God. I was a struggling adolescent in many ways and I remember times where being able to do what I could do at that stage in life was gave me such connection with other people and affirmation and a feeling of purpose and I just felt this intense gratitude and remember it feeling like it was. It was completely outside myself the intensity of feeling that directness so that that's one one story along those lines I could tell others. And that's what attracted you to come to the AMBS community. Yes, thank you. So, I think I'll start backwards with a story from one of my first weeks at AMBS and, and then circle back to the discernment that led me here. There's a structure in our community life, academic life for the, for the faculty called the teaching research seminar and six times a year the AMBS teaching faculty and sometimes administrative faculty gather for a seminar and it the basic ideas that is to have a chance to share and respond to each other's scholarship. And at my very first seminar that year and argument emerged it. We were in with with Marsome around a very large conference table. And as things got heated, I remember feeling very alarmed and anxious, because this didn't happen much in my time at Goshen College. And I could spend a lot of time analyzing that but what I soon learned in this moment was that it was all okay. I soon within minutes came to recognize this as a very healthy argument. And just to tell you a little bit about it, because I think this audience will will be interested. And on one hand, a passionate reminder of our sacred responsibility to teach historical context and critical scholarship in biblical studies and theological education that the person presenting their work was making this argument. And there was, on the other hand, a fervent rejoinder that scripture is for anyone to have a powerful encounter with whether or not one has this contextual knowledge. And the two key characters in this debate really vigorously went at it for a while with others chiming in here and there. And so there was this back and forth but there was also laughter there were calming voices and this ultimate recognition that even as these two ideas were intention. We, we could see truth on both sides and bring them together. I remember sitting there among this group of exceptional professors and delighting in the intellectual confidence, the theological generosity and collegial trust that was in that space. And that helped me realize why this argument felt felt safe. And it was just one of those moments where I thought I can't believe I'm here, and I'm so glad I'm here. There's a little bit more about what attracted me as Janine said in the introduction I was at Goshen College for 23 years and I was feeling ready for for something new. I wondered, is it time to be somewhere less Mennonite that was an active question in my head. And of course is funny now to think about where I ended up. I remember having attraction to an organization, or institution that where the, where finances were, were not a worry. Not that am BS is not on is I can assure you that am BS is on solid financial footing but of course we are a place that depends on the graciousness of our donors and end of God. And so I, I just am struck that the things I thought I might be drawn to were so very different. I, the, I had made it known in my network that I was really feeling an affinity for academic administration and gaining experience with that. When I was approached about the am BS position, I did initially think that just doesn't make sense to me. But in disarmament with some people who knew the institution were steeped in theological education became convinced that it was it was worth looking into. And as I learned more that was just affirmed and I may talk later about how and why as a musician, I, I felt I had any business being a dean in a theological school. But I'll stop there for now. Well I love that God has a sense of humor. And I'm so glad that you are here, Bev. You have so much on your plate. So many different things going on but I'm wondering if you could identify some of the key projects you're working on this year and just describe some of those for our alumni. Sure. I am in a role where work on the curriculum is constant. And I get to do this with a committee that has existed at am BS for a very long time the curriculum committee, but the teaching faculty are involved of course in in our discernment and one of the things I really value about being here is that we we have engaged administrative faculty who really care about the graduate curriculum as well. So that is a key area and just constant project I'm working on academic policy is is also significant and I think this year it has been a key project because our creditor Association of theological schools did a major revision of their accreditation standards last summer. And this is, I think, a very good revision we had just been through our 10 year re accreditation my first year at am BS, but they, they moved in a direction of one could say more freedom and higher rigor. So it's been a long time, but it opened up some need for us to revisit some of our policies that were very much in place because of a TS requirements. So we've, that's been a major area of looking at our policies. In particular here the pandemic has been you know a constant reality and I've been involved in in our designs and decisions around that and I think in my role in the faculty role and roles of people like Jeanine we're just seeing the realities and impact of the pandemic and now some renewed hope that we are hopefully moving into a better stage, just how that impacts our students and our group, how we, how we do what we do at every level. So those are a few things we were in a time where exploration of new partnerships and programs is is energized and the new strategic plan that Dave Bouchard as our new president has led is now in place and guiding a lot of our work. That just boils it down to so few things Bev when I know you've got many, many more things going but thank you for identifying those key things that you're working on this year. I'm wondering if you can say a bit about your dreams for AMBS as you look forward. You mentioned the strategic plan but what are your own hopes and dreams. Yeah, I think I'll go back to, well, this preparation for this third Thursday time took me back to one of my interviews at AMBS so it was a multi stage process. At one point I was asked to do some significant writing on some very important questions that the search committee sent me, and one of them was around theological vision and so I was interested in going back and looking at that that statement that I developed at the time and I'll read it's just a paragraph. My vision for theological education. And I was interested in boy how well does this align with our new strategic plan with what I've learned and experience at AMBS in my first three years. So this is what I wrote at the time this would have been in 2018 spring of 2018. No sorry spring of 2017 theological education is an integrative pursuit that calls forth excellent biblical sociological and theological scholarship and dynamic practitioner training to prepare pastors, teachers and leaders in an anxious fearful and polarized society theological education is a healing unifying and transformative endeavor that reaches deep and wide to strengthen denominational institutions to empower interdenominational partnerships and to enable interfaith dialogue. And I further reflected that there were three things in my own formation that shaped this vision. So first my journey with the church motivated my belief in the vital role of theological education. My first pastors were seminary graduates, and I observed the impact of that on their, their work during my childhood and young adult years at Plains Mennonite Church in Lansdale. When I went to graduate school for the first time. I was fresh out of college from Goshen College at Westminster choir college in Princeton, New Jersey and I attended a large, the large and well staffed NASA presbyterian in Princeton, and I saw preaching in a whole new way as an art form during those years in Princeton at that, at that church. I observed in later years my home church going through some very painful years of conflict centered around pastoral leadership. This was followed by being able to observe healing and it led to some long term pastorates that continue today. Most formatively in my adult life, Assembly Mennonite and Goshen has been my home congregation and I've observed there a much more congregational style of leadership, a particular style very rooted in in Anabaptist theology. So there's high levels of participation and excellent lay teaching and preaching and less centering on the on pastoral leadership. It has centered and focused on pastoral leadership in recent years more than early years there, however. That's one influence my story with the church. Another one that helped me think about my vision is my experience with young adults and Mennonite higher education and just very briefly. I would say that at Goshen College. I observed the trends that we see elsewhere in society of less identification with with church membership. And I think there was there were periods of time while I was there where faculty and others felt a lot of uncertainty as the ground was shifting beneath us. In terms of undergraduate rates of attendance at church and and their, their faith identity and commitments. So very last year at Goshen I, I started to see another shift I went to China with for a semester with my family and a group of students. And we were in this amazing city and country with much less evident Christianity around us. So it created this, I think, openness and hunger among this group of college students to talk more openly about our faith commitments. When I returned to Goshen College for what ended up being my last semester. I found myself in a really different space and I in various classes and I think appropriate ways would, would make more explicit faith connections than I had previously. And what I observed was light in, in the eyes of my students almost even relief. There's there's a hunger out there and I was recognizing that at the time where I started to think about a potential move to ABS. The final influence is, and I won't go into detail here but I realized in my processing that I was impacted by the integrative work of theological and biblical scholarship as a child. Pastor at Plains Mennonite, who taught a very rigorous series of baptism classes was Gerald Studer. And he was a graduate of Mennonite biblical seminary and the Studer Bible collection is here in the AMS library that's over 5000 rare editions that he methodically and, and over significant amount of time collected. And in those baptism classes I'll just say I, I became aware of an intellectual push that he was giving us to analyze the text with great care and precision. And I think there were a lot of complex ideas that floated above my 13 year old brain at the time, but it, there was something very exciting about it, and I think that that awareness has lingered with me and made me, I think made me actually a better musician and academic in other areas. So, now to the vision again which by now we've all forgotten. And it's alignment with the strategic plan. I do see resonance there. And I think one of the things that's not there that I don't think I fully understood was how much our global on a Baptist education vision would be expanded and is expanding. I just do want to mention that I have only seen further evidence that AMBS is a place that I think can model a way out of some of the polarization that we see around us. So I'm pretty excited about continuing to think about that. Thank you. And I'm wondering if you have a question you would like to ask the alumni. And then alumni, you can either answer in the chat or if you want to do a longer if you want to connect it to a question you can put it in the q amp a but that's what would you like to know from the folks who've joined us today. Thank you, you know related to one of the things I said about influences on my, my vision for theological education in this context was about observing young adult trends with Christian faith. And so my question would be, I'm interested in what our alumni are observing about young adults in the church, and how they claim church, when they do, how they do and, and how they don't. So when are they claiming their place in the church and when are they not and then I guess a similar question would be around faith. Is there a difference when it comes to personal faith. Is there more interest there than there is in in church membership or church life. I mean, broadly on that topic, what gives you hope about the church in spite of trends, or what do you think we at the seminary need to be paying attention to. Thanks that's such a great question so I invite you if you have a response to to answer in the chat. And if several of those come in then I'll I'll share those later. We're going to move now to questions that you have for Bev. And so if you have something you want to ask please put that in the Q&A feature. And I'll start with a question from Arden Shank. And this is about the the faculty as a whole Bev so Mennonite scholarly research in past years often focused on church history pacifism personal faith and behavior, biblical texts and the relationship to and the world in general. In recent years, there is emerging interest in research writing and teaching about systemic injustice, the wealth gap between the rich and the poor, and advocacy to make change. Could you give some examples of this kind of work that AMBS faculty are doing in this area from a biblical and theological perspective. Thank you Arden for that question. Yes, thank you. That's a really helpful framework and I find resonance in that with our faculty. And some some key examples. This year in in the reality of the pandemic and the systemic injustices that were illuminated even more clearly for us during this time. Jana Hunter Bowman, who is director of our peace studies here at AMBS teaches a weekly witness colloquium class. And this has always been open to community members who are interested in attending along with with students this year because it was on zoom. The network was expanded. And I mean, Jana's work. I think is a solid representation of relating to the Mennonite scholarly research to systemic injustice and change advocacy and change making. In summary, I would just note that Jana's framework that she brings to this is a peace building framework very rooted in peace theology and an abaptist theology, but with a focus on on advocacy and action. So that's one example. I think in our Bible department and history theology and ethics department we see other examples as well. I would just note that our faculty are increasingly interested in public scholarship. And in scholarship that serves the church and the Academy that's always been an expectation of AMBS teaching faculty, but leaning into the the public. More and more so venues where the relevance of theological studies and biblical scholarship to providing direction and avenues to address the systemic injustice I just see constant focus on that in our faculty's work and then finally in their teaching. This is something I think our students really recognize as a as a focus. I think it's such a good question and I just want to note to that. There is a bit of attention, because in any discipline, there is a love of the discipline for the discipline itself. And, and so I personally and philosophically want to make space for that because I think that's where so much beauty and connection with with God happens in our disciplinary study. But I think part of theological education, helping revive the church is leaning in on on the relevance to today's pressing questions. Thank you. Ken Quiring has asked. Thanks you for sharing some of your story and when you referred to experiencing preaching as an art form. He would appreciate it if you would describe a couple of specific examples of this as well as maybe some more general reflection on how you have found preaching to be an art form. Thank you, Ken. I, you know, at the, the story I told from Nassau Presbyterian Church in Princeton I would have been around 22 years old, and I had certainly observed good preaching by then. But I would, I would say I saw more less scripted models of preaching, although that's a little too simplistic to because I think some of the, the older Mennonite preachers that I would have been in congregation with were incredible unscripted speakers. And it was, it was a more tightly constructed sermon that I started to recognize and there was more of a sense of arc and and process in that construction. So in terms of a couple specific examples. So at AMBS, more recently, I have in general observed a what I would call a fairly intensely expressive worship style. And that just really struck me and I think, you know, we're students here who are passionate about preparing for ministry and bringing them full selves into worship, but that that is, I see that broadly but then extended to some preaching styles which are very dramatic and focused on that, that dramatic art arc that is in the construction, but I also see more scripted and very well crafted preaching as another really important model that I've, I value and because I want to be, I mean, clear about my interest in both of those those forms to put a little too bifurcated a spin on on the two styles. The only other thing I would say at the moment is, you know, I've come to understand and Alan Rudy froze has helped me with this that preaching. There is a technique and there is, there are strategies and but there is also so much individual individuality that that we bring to this. And then here at AMBS, the, the leaning in on biblical exegesis and relevance and preaching has been so exciting to see. Hank Landis is curious to hear a little bit more about the shift that happened for you as a teacher when you came back from China. Could you say a little bit more about that. Maybe what you felt changed before you were there and after you came back. Thank you Hank. Yes, thank you for that question. Before I went to China, I won't go into detail but I had good, I knew that it could potentially be my last year at Goshen College. I, I was very, you know, there's a there's a great great quote about in Harold Bender's the Goshen Dean's biography about conversations with the Mennonite biblical seminary and Goshen biblical seminary merging but not merging so much as sharing a campus and Harold Bender greatly wanted that to stay at Goshen and resisted the idea of another location. And in that story in the book. There's a analysis that Bender just couldn't bear the thought of leaving Goshen. And I, I was finding myself in that space sometimes so even as I felt called to some sort of change I Goshen is has had and has a strong hold on me the imprint of Goshen on my on me as is powerful and good and I'm so grateful to the institution. But you know I was very young when I started there. I was 25. When I joined the music faculty I didn't have a doctorate yet that happened in the middle of my time there. And so 23 years later, just felt like a key moment and I am I staying for the rest of my, my career or is it time for a shift. In China, the opportunity came there we had led us to study service term the Goshen International ed program previously and I was passing on the department chair role to a colleague and had the opportunity to do this and it was a good transition experience, but I, but, but interestingly it was also a, it's a, it's, it's a quintessential Goshen experience for faculty member and for students, and it helped me I think be grateful for and reflect on what this institution, how it had formed me, and was forming our students even without dramatically higher ed has changed everywhere, including at Goshen College. So I felt more ready to I think be open to what was going to transpire when I came back and so I was, there was the possibility that I would stay at Goshen but it wasn't. I was opening myself up to and I think being able to have an intense another intense study abroad experience gave me space to be ready for that. And what you said earlier that there was also a sense in which there was more freedom for you to speak about faith issues as you were teaching. Is that what I heard you say, do you want to push that out a little bit more with what that looked like for you. Yeah, thank you for that reminder I I'll put another element on this topic in that on the on the faith topic in that China, well any intense intercultural experience it, it, you know brings you to your knees in multiple ways. And that I think is a spiritual opportunity. And so I think for for all of us who were in that group together that was at play at different in different ways. Previously in previous years at Goshen as anyone who follows our men and I schools knows the demographic shift has been significant and so as the men and I numbers were decreasing and other demographic groups increasing. There was a lot of conversation at Goshen about how are we hospitable to non men and I and I would say there was a tendency to in an attempt to not be alienating to speak less openly about our men and I and about his faith. And so I I was in in in the midst of this and yet also reading and seeing the research about young people leaving the church and thinking we've got to do something differently here. So Goshen is doing so many wonderful things as our other men and I schools to nurture faith and I think, as the demographics have settled it, there's there's new opportunities there. For me, what was so interesting about coming to ambs is that there was none of that self consciousness or anxiety. And it's not that we don't also need to look carefully at how we can be exclusionary and alienating in in the the ways we may express our, our tradition and our faith, but the identity and the commitment it's, it's just such a different type of institution and it was, it was a homecoming for me. And lastly, it's helped me think about how we as a seminary do relate to our sister institutions that are serving younger students than we are. A question that came in earlier before before we started meeting today from David Myers was as academic Dean what's your vision for seminary education at ambs and and what are the top challenges and implementing that vision. That's a huge question but invite you to say what you want to say about that. Sure. Well, I think related to this is, I mean, one of the challenges is that I come from a different disciplinary background. In my exploration of this role, I was intrigued but also concerned about that. And so it was important for me in conversations with the search committee and then groups as the exploration continued to make it really clear that I believe in disciplinary expertise, and that as a Dean with a non traditional background for a seminary, that would be be my framework. So I hold on one hand this very genuine and deep respect for the scholarship and practice of faculty at the front and center of my work. But I also am and was convinced by the people who who helped me discern this decision and invite me into it that my, my experience in as a musician and music scholar brought relevance to this role as well and that there was a lot of transferable skill and knowledge there. So, I just want to note that as a reality and the, I remember asking the search committee why would you hire a non someone without a theological background for this role, and it was expressed that of different traditions that that could could have been brought music was one that felt the most aligned and and and transferable with with theology so I've had a lot of work to do to prepare myself and to keep preparing myself to to lead in this context but My, my broad vision is to draw more people to the to the possibility of ministry and to the joys and challenges of seminary study and to equip the faculty to study and create a space where that that joy can be lived out in service to the church. And I think my broad experience with with education is and and with with assessing of student learning outcomes is is helping us with that so there's both a drawing in and a equipping while here and then a deep connection with the church that I want to keep inviting our faculty and all of us to do. I have a question from William block. As a Canadian. How do you see your place in the politically polarized social scene in particularly how does ambs prepare pastors who might find this affecting congregational life Wow, great question. Thank you, William. In connecting with with what I was saying before I mentioned assessing our student learning. There's also a piece of this that is assessing that our curriculum is relevant for for the needs of our the churches are graduates will be serving in and I would say to your question there is just increasing awareness that this polarization is impacting congregational life and pastoral leadership and I think there's a lot of space in our curriculum to prepare for that. But I'm we one of the assessment pieces that we're working on is word from our alumni that that is overwhelming and the more tools they can have the better part of the the reality of some higher ed context is that we can be in a bit of a bubble and it can be hard to be aware of the reality of different faith communities that we need to and that our students are going to be serving and we have theological diversity at ambs and lots of different experiences impacting how people think about politics and government and the, the great debates of our time. So I think the bubble is not a huge problem here but but it's it's clear that we need to give more attention to preparing our graduates to lead in settings of congregational difference and conflict. But that's one response to your, your very good question that I think needs a lot of attention. Invite others to add their questions to the q&a feature we're getting close to the end of our time here I'll go ahead with a second question from Hank Landis. The February 24 issue of Christian Century has a major article on theological education interviewing for theological educators in England and North America. Our comments lean towards more seminary education taking place in context of full time ministry. So he's asking what has ambs learned about video based learning in North America and in the global south and I, I think, I think his question is not so much about from the pandemic but in terms of making education accessible to people at a distance. Thank you Hank. I'll just say one thing about the last question then get to this one I just want to note something I wish I had said, which is that, in spite of the possibility that any higher ed community can be a bubble at ambs. I do think we have significant experience, building opportunities. I see it among our students all the time, navigating difference. And they, I think, lean on core agreements and focus on relationships. And, and they have a lot of opportunity and requirements around understanding themselves as intercultural learners that I think is really significant to preparing for the future roles they'll be playing to Hank's question about full time and what I think was read in that piece of that seemed to say that is the kind of the model that's getting focus. I want to note that I understand a draw to that I would love to have and we are, we relish and celebrate our full time residential community or maybe other people who who don't live on campus but are studying full time in the area. But we have had a huge growth in distance learners in our degree programs and ambs through previous leaders was on the early end of instructional technology that allows for distance learning formats. The very significant part of this is video conferencing instruction so the format that we're in right now on zoom except not webinar format but it's a classroom environment that that this year has certainly given us even more experience with. So I just, I want to promote the idea of both and I, I think our future is in still having a place for students who have the gift of being able to do their study full time in a limited number of years. But we have more and more bivocational students who are part time and at a distance and hopefully coming to campus a couple times a year when when things are more returned to normal. So, to just summarize, we are, if anything, I think leaning even more into more pathways for distance and part time study. And I just want to also just say that the zoom classroom for for better for lack of a better term. I have seen our faculty do incredible things in that space and I think it can be a really vibrant learning community. And there are some gifts of being able to work in a zoom classroom. I just started teaching a class that I've done before in person. But this year, the class includes people in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Ecuador as well as Indiana. So that would not have been possible in the past so this is this is a gift of that option and we still have to figure out ways to do that but I think everybody's being very creative with those models. Um, Bev, we are out of questions from our alumni but I want to ask one more question. Maybe some alumni have a last minute question here we have maybe time for one more depending on how long it takes you to answer this because this is a great question again, but I'm curious with the arrival of the new hymnal voices together. What is, what's exciting you about that resource and your hopes for that resource. I, I'm so excited about this new resource and I, I think we're all going to have a lot of pent up desire to learn to know it in community. When we are able to be together in person again and sing together. I am seeing church music as where I want to give my focus in the next few years. I get a lot of joy out of song leading and and congregational song and supporting church music at the piano. I think the book is is a just an amazing resource I'm just learning to know it but the weekend I got my hands on it. I kind of lost myself to it I, I, I hardly ate or paid attention to anything else and it. And I remember being aware of, you know I thought I would just be sort of geeking out on the music but the theological resources in this book are incredible. So I'm very excited about it and I I think the, the committee's work is a microcosm of the lot of a lot of things we're talking about in the church right now. And I'm, I know we've had opportunities to learn more about that but I think there's more learning to do about how they wrestled with so many competing hopes and dreams for this book and had a process that allowed them to work at that very productively. So if anyone here was involved congratulations to you I'm so grateful and so excited about it. Well, thank you Bev so much for answering all of these questions and I just want to note that we have had a comment from Maureen Mausie in the in the chat, just assuring you that the youth in her church Warsaw United Methodist Church are growing and active and and being creative and being the way for the whole congregation so we do have testimony that youth are involving themselves in the church. So thank you for that. Thanks to all of you for joining us today and for your continued support of MBS I've said this before but I'll say it again. You are alumni are such important people in terms of tapping new students on the shoulder, giving financially and your prayer support and and encouraging other people to give that kind of support as well and we so appreciate that. Coming up, we have some alumni reunions planned that will be virtual. But instead of just seeing one person speaking you'll see each other. Those are happening April, May and June and they'll be by decade so you can come to as many of those as you wish or you know to whatever years you were at MBS choose the ones that you want to come to several retired faculty and long term current faculty are going to be joining some of those zoom reunions so that you'll have a chance to check in with people that you knew from your time here who were teaching as well as your own colleagues. So you'll get a postcard about that in the next few weeks and the information has already gone out by email you can begin to sign up for those times on the website. Another thank you to Becca Barato our student who has helped with the tech support for today. And again, thank you to all of you for joining us I wish you a wonderful rest of the day, and God's blessings. Thank you. Thank you all take.